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A41618 Papists protesting against Protestant-popery in answer to a discourse entituled, A papist not mis-represented by Protestants : being a vindication of The papist mis-represented and represented, and the reflections upon the answer. Gother, John, d. 1704. 1686 (1686) Wing G1340; ESTC R227532 21,123 40

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passage for its monstrous extravagancies through the Narrow way then for those of Barbary and Turky The Popery this Author describes seems to me a flat Contradiction to the Commandments and the Gospel and the Professors of it can have no other portion then with Idolaters Murderers and Adulterers whose Eternity is to be in utter darkness He declares plainly that Popery is really that Antichristian Religion which Protestants say it is that it teaches and practices all those Fopperies Superstitions and Non-sence which have been at any time charg'd against it by Protestants His very Title of A Papist not Mis-represented by Protestants is a condemnation of the Religion to all those horrid shapes and monstrous forms it has been at any time expos'd in by Members of the Reformation He tells his Reader in the name of all his Brethren We charge them the Papists with nothing but what they expresly profess to believe and what they practice And in this one Assertion vouches for the Truth of all that Infamy and prophaness which is laid at their doors And so gives assurance that their complaint of being Mis-represented is but vain and idle for that what they call a Mis-representation is in reality a Representation in all the material Points of the avow'd Doctrine and Practice of the Church of Rome That the Papist Represented excepting some very few cases professes to believe all that the Papist Mis-represented is charg'd with This the best and wisest Men he says viz. of the Reformation have believ'd of them And in Fox's book of Martyrs we read how many were burnt for not believing as the Papist Mis-represented believes This is the General Character of a Papist according to the freshest and most Modern draught of our Adversary So that now to receive a true information of the Papist's Creed we are not to consult the Council of Trent or the Catechism ad Parochos but the writings and Sermons of Protestants For however Papists may not know what they believe themselves yet Protestants give a true and exact account of them and are so far Infallible that the Papists certainly are what they say they are believe what they say they believe since they charge them with nothing but what they expresly profess to believe and what they practice Upon the assurance of this Affidavit me-thinks 't will not be amiss here to receive the satisfaction of knowing what a Papist really is and what he certainly believes beyond the possibility of all exception For since all that proceeds from a Popish hand of this nature is suspected and challeng'd and the double Character of a Papist Mis-represented and Represented about which as the Repliers says there is so much pother and noise is questioned as to its Method its Sincerity and exactness we 'l now follow our Authors call and learn what Popery is from the Pens of Protestants and especially from some of those who are supposed to know what Popery is but for the bad man which the Replier excepts against we 'l make no advantage of him but let a better Man take his room What Papists are according to the Character given by the most Reverend Father John sometime Lord Archbishop of York in his Book Written for the use of a Lady to preserve her from the danger of Popery where he brings in a Papist thus declaring the Belief and Doctrine of his Church WE must Believe the Church of Rome whether it teach true or false If the Pope Believe there is no Life to come we must Believe it as an Article of our Faith We teach that the Gospel is but a Fable of Christ That the Pope can dispence against the New Testament that he may check when he pleases the Epistles of St. Paul and controul any thing avouched by all the Apostles That there is an eternal Gospel to wit that of the Holy Ghost which puts down Christs That Christ is the Saviour of Men only but of no Women For Women are saved by St. Clare and Mother Jane That we put away Mortal sins by becoming Franciscans by a Bishops Pardon for Forty days and a Cardinals for a Hundred and the Popes for Ever That to become a Monk or a Nun is as good as the Sacrament of Baptism That Whoredom is allowed all the Year long and another sin for June July August which you must not know Allowed for this time by Sixtus Quartus to all the Family of the Cardinals of St. Lucie That the Pope can make that Righteous which is Vnrighteous That the Bishop of Rome is a God That the Pope may dispence with all Duties and that our Principles set Men loose from all obligations in all relations whatsoever between Magistrates and Subjects Lords and Tenants Husbands and Wives Parents and Children Masters and Servants Buyers and Sellers That there is not any sin but is or may be Indulged amongst us and scarce a known sin but there is a known price for it and at our Market-rate you may commit them when you will What is the Belief and Doctrine of the Papists as 't is deliver'd by Tho. Beard D.D. in his Book Entituled Antichrist the Pope of Rome THey Believe that Saints departed ought to be Worshipped and invocated with trust and confidence as God himself That the Pope can Canonize them to this Worship at his pleasure That Images are to be adored with the same degree of honour as is due to their Patterns contrary to an express precept of the Law That the Pardon of sins here in this Life and deliverance out of Purgatory in the Life to come may be bought for Mony and where no Mony there no remission They make their unwritten Traditions not one but the principal part of Gods word They place divers counterfeit Books disguised under the Name of some of the Apostles or their Disciples full of Fables Blasphemies and Contrarieties and yet commend them to the World as parcels of the written word of God and Believe in them as Holy Scripture it self as the Gospels of St. Nicodemus of St. Thomas c. The Pope hath set up a new God in the Church namely a piece of Bread in the Mass and to their Breaden God they ascribe power to forgive sins to defend from evil both Men and Beast and to bring to Heaven when as in the mean while most horrible Blasphemies against Christ himself are tolerated and slighted over The Pope is above Angels and Magistrates he exalteth himself above all that is called God yea above God himself They prefer their Saints before Christ They rely more upon the mediation and intercession of Saints then upon the mediation of Christ They not only equal St. Francis and St. Dominick unto Christ but in some things prefer them before him They affirm that whoever dies in St. Francis's habit cannot be Damn'd and that it is as forcible for the remission of sins as the Sacrament of Baptism What the Papists are as Represented by Mr. Sutcliffe
in his Survey of Popery THere is no point almost wherein the Papist vary not from the antient Church the Article concerning the holy Trinity only excepted They teach novelties and false Doctrines concerning the very grounds of Faith for they believe the Church to be built upon the Pope They speak what they can in disgrace of the holy Scripture They give the Office of Christ's mediation to the Virgin Mary to Angels and to Saints they make also Saints our Redeemers c. For God they Worship Creatures not only giving divine honour to the Sacrament but also to Crucifixes and Images of the Trinity made of Wood c. and they do adore not only Saints but rotten bones and rags they know not of whom They overthrow grace and ascribe the merit of our salvation not to God's mercy through Christ nor to the merit of his passion but properly to our own works and merits They cut out the Second commandment because it cannot stand with the Popish worship of Images They pray before Stocks and Stones nay they put their trust in them They make no conscience to cut Christian mens throats for not yielding to all their abominations and think it conscience to obey the Popes decrees tho very unlawful The Fourth commandment concerneth the sanctifying the Sabbath but the Papists profane it by Worshiping Idols and frequenting the Idolatrous Mass Papists think they do God good service when they murder true Christians Amongst Papists Adultery and Fornication are reckoned among lesser sins By the Doctrine of Papists the Devils of Hell may be saved To this purpose they say that not only wicked and reprobate men but also the Devils of Hell may have true and justifying Faith Papists blasphemously make Christ not only a desperate Man without hope but also an infidel without Faith They deny Christ to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and affirming that his divine Essence had a beginning from some other they fall within the Compass of the errour of the Tritheites which Heresie doth tear the Vnity of the Godhead in pieces and plainly makes more Gods then one Papists do diminish the merit of Christ's satisfaction and enervate as much as in them lieth the Cross of Christ and the effect of his death and passion They are teachers of Antichrist opposite to Christ and enemies of his Cross That Christ is not the redeemer of all Man-kind They make Christ inferiour to Saints and Angels and prefer the Pope before Christ Papists make St. Francis and Dominick equal to Christ in divers things and in some things Superiour They give equal honour to a Cross of Wood and Metal and to Christ and looking on a Wooden crucifix they say thou hast redeem'd us They suppose the Virgin Mary more merciful then Christ Papists account it a small sin to use common Women Papists believe divers were by their Saints fetch'd out of Hell Papists by their irregular Doctrines and Traditions have not only corrupted but also disanul'd for the most part the law of God They deny the Gospel to be a rule of perfection but they doubt not to give that honour to the rules of Bennet c. they speak more Blasphemously of the Holy Scriptures then the Turks or Saracens To the Images of the Cross and crucifix they give as much honour as they do to God They fall down like Beasts before the Pope and Worship him as God ascribing to him most blasphemously the honour due to Christ Popery as a sink hath together with Heresie receiv'd into it self most gross and Heathenish Idolatry Papists say they put no trust in Images but never did the Gentiles trust so much in the Images of Juno or Jupiter as the Papists trust in the Images of our Lady of Loretto James of Compostella c. They give divine honour to Images which they themselves cannot deny to be Idolatrous They ascribe mans justification to his Works and exclude justification both by Christ's iustice and by Faith c. The Papists teach their disciples to distrust Gods grace and to trust rather in their own Works and Merits Popery is nothing else but a pack of old and new Heresies Papists despise marriage as Pollutions and fleshly life Bennet Dominick Francis and other authors of feigned religions took not their Rules from the Gospel but thought they could frame a more perfect religion then the Gospel As the Gentiles had one principal God and divers demy and inferior Gods so have the Papists As the Gentiles believed that every one had his good and bad Genius so the Papists assign to every Christian a good and bad Angel The second Council of Arles cap. 23. sheweth it to be a custom of Pagans to worship Trees or Stones or Fountains yet our English Papists cease not to go on pilgrimage to St. Winifrides well nor to worship Stock 's and Stones The Romish Church consists of a pack of Infidels They forbid honest Wedlock The Papist Preachers seldom teach the people and when they do it they preach their own inventions and tell idle tales without edification Both Priests and People are most ignorant of Matters of Faith where Popery is profes'd The Scriptures and Fathers they read not In a member of the Catholick Church they say neither inward Faith nor other vertue is requir'd but only that he profess outwardly the Romish Religion and be subject to the Pope The Papists promise Heaven to their followers so they profess and set forward the Popes cause whether they be Murderers of Kings or Massacrers or Robels or filthy Whoremongers or Sodomites They make more conscience to abstain from flesh on Friday then to murder Christians Divers points of Popish doctrine are specially said to proceed from the Devil It is a common practice amongst Papists to give divine Worship to dead men The Popish Church hath no true Bishops The Pope is Antichrist The Popish Synagogue hath no true Priests Popery in many points is more absurd and abominable then the doctrine of Mahomet Papists that positively hold the heretical and false doctrines of the modern Church of Rome can not possibly be saved What Papists are according to the Book of Homilies IMages in Churches and Idolatry go always both together Images in Churches have been be and ever will be none other but abominable Idols Oenomaus and Hesiod shew that in their time there were Thirty thousand Gods I think we had no fewer Saints to whom we gave the honour due to God and they have not only spoiled the true living God of his due honour in Temples Cities c. by such devices and inventions that the Gentile Idolaters have done before them but the Sea and Waters have as well special Saints with them as they had Gods with the Gentiles c. Papists make of true Servants of God false Gods and attribute to them the power and honour which is Gods and due to him only Image maintainers have the same opinion of Saints which the Gentiles had of their
declaiming against Popery for committing Idolatry as bad or worse than that of the grossest Heathens Worshipping Stocks and Stones for God distinguish between the Doctrine of the Papists and these Interpretations and Consequences charg'd against it Alas they swallow all down greedily and in the lump Antecedents and Consequents go down with them all at once Neither do I find much care us'd to prevent this misunderstanding in the People For who is there in laying open the folly as they will have it of the Papists and positively charging them that They make Gods of Stocks and Stones that They make Gods of dead Men and raise the Virgin Mary to be co-partner with Christ in Heaven c. Does afterwards tell his Auditory that This is not what the Papists themselves Believe and Teach but only what himself Believes and Infers from their Doctrine as the Consequence or Interpretation of it but they deny Truly were our Adversaries so sincere as to tell their hearers that all their charge against Popery is nothing more than what they think of our Faith and Doctrine I would so far agree with the Replier that this ought not be call'd Mis-representing but only saying of us what is not true But they go beyond this and instead of saying we think so they positively say so it is And possess as many as take Ideas from their words not barely that they think we Teach and Practice Idolatry v.g. but absolutely that we do Nay our Image-worship is Worshiping Stocks and Stones for Gods says the Replier in his very next leaf without remembring his thinking And when the People read Books intended as preservatives against the danger of Popery they are still expos'd to the like deceit For what ordinary Reader is there that finds it positively asserted as above by the Arch-bishop of York Papists Believe the Church of Rome whether it teach true or false And if the Pope Believes there is no Life to come they must Believe it as an Article of their Faith What ordinary Reader I say is there that will not swallow this presently as the Faith and Doctrine of the Papists when at latter end 't is only what he thinks and a Consequence far fetch'd to discredit Popery with the Vulgar And when he 's told by another hand that the Common Answer of Catholicks to excuse themselves from Idolatry in their adoration of the Eucharist is because they Believe the Bread to be God Has not he here a fair occasion again of taking this for the Belief of a Papist and that he Worships what he Believes to be a Breaden God Certainly he must be no small Logician that can discover whether this be an Antecedent or Consequent whether it be the Faith of the Papist or only a Consequence of it For my part when I see Popery describ'd as if none could be of that Communion but he that can bring his mind to Believe the Word of God to be writ but for a few Years only and afterwards to be abrogated and annull'd That whatsoever God says shall be null and void unless the Bishop of Rome will and command the same When I hear that the Pope is Antichrist and Rome the Whore of Babylon that the Papists have taken away from the People the Holy Communion the Word of God the true Worship of the Deity the right use of the Sacraments and Prayers and instead of them have given to please them Salt water Oyl Spittle Bulls Jubilees Indulgences Crosses Incense and an infinite number of meer Toys and Baubles and that in these they have placed all Religion when I hear I say Popery thus describ'd to the People by eminent Apologizers for the Church of England I cannot conceive but 't is to let them know what notion to frame of it And yet whosoever shall suppose that after such directions they 'l conceive a regular Idea of it without a confusion of Faith with its Interpretations of Doctrine with its charges must conclude them to be better at Separating than the Chymists and that in subtle distinctions they are able to outdo Aristotle himself But 't is too much to be fear'd that those who expose Popery to the People after this way are not willing they should apprehend it in its genuine Purity and as free from this disingenuous mixture 'T is so like those who impose upon the Multitude with artificial Monsters by putting the wrong end forward and shewing the Tail for the Head that if they are not deluded into a mistake 't is because they are not so credulous as they should be and suspect something of a Trick in him that makes the shew And has not the Reflecter now reason to repent after all that he gave occasion to the Replier of explaining the Mysteries he has discover'd in the Character of the Papist Mis-represented since the faults he endeavours to lay open are not in the Mis-representation but in those who by Mis-representing the Papist rais'd a false Idea of Popery in the Peoples heads The Character of the Papist Mis-represented was intended only as the Author expresses himself in his Introduction for a Copy of Popery as Painted in the Imagination of the Vulgar And being conform to that 't is exact and perfect And if there be any faults in it the blame must fall on those who drew the Original But however we 'l compound here again for this if the Replier will but undertake to undeceive the People and give them a more exact Notion of Popery the Reflecter will undertake to reform the Character accordingly But till then the Character of the Papist Mis-represented stands good and till the abus'd people are taught to distinguish between Antecedents and Consequents between the Faith of Papists and the Consequences charg'd against it the Character must remain as it is and any Reformation in it would but make it irregular and unlike that from whence it was taken The Replier therefore might very well have spar'd the almost Forty pages he has spent on this Subject in which tho he has learnedly distinguish'd between matters of Dispute and of Representation Yet this distinction being not to be found in the Notion the People have of Popery 't is nothing to our purpose And the only end it can possibly serve for is to let the World understand how much the Papists are generally wrong'd in their reputation whilst so many grosse absurdities which are often positively expos'd for Articles of their Faith are here acknowledg'd by the Replier himself not to be their Faith but only the Interpretations and Consequential charges of their Adversaries These are the Mis-representing Arts and Faults he mentions For the Representing Faults he alledges 1. That I deny the Belief of their Interpretations And the reason is it may be because he thinks no body charges us with that Belief Which if it be but true then I have not so much as contradicted any body and there is no fault I hope in that 2. I generally