theirs did not And that I trust is sound Which thing also you might haue remembred if you had ben so charitable by that which I wrote in “ In the next treatise following of the cōparison of the Ministery with Mariage Ans to your first Reason another place Then in your first answer Pag. 14. Howe vainely doe yow aske vs for Scriptures to proue those orders seing I expresly called them errors The like in your Second wher you load vp Scriptures to disproue thē Also Thirdlie you charge an vnconscionable vntruth on mee if you meane this answere vnto me that I should graunt and cannot deny that all outward ceremonies and gouernement are arbitrary at mans pleasure I onelie said that our state holdeth that generall opinion Not that I my selfe held it If you meane them write to them and speake to them if you meane me you doe me foule iniurie Fourthly whether they are Popish shiftes or no let our state which mainteyneth these things answer you Your Fift is answered in the first poinct of my explication noted before pag. 19. To your Sixt in pag. 16. wee aunswered before in the Second poinct of my explication pag. 19. Your Seuenth in pag. 18. is also against the state of our Church and not against me Maister IOHNSONS 3. Exception against the former Assumption with Maister IACOBS Replies to the same EXCEPTION 3. THirdlie let them shew by the Scriptures howe the 36. Article of their doctrine booke alleadged agreeth with the Gospell of Christ and true Christianitie The words of the Article are these as followeth The Booke of consecrating of Archbishops and Bishops and ordering of Priestes and Deacons doth conteyne all thinges necessarie to such consecration and ordering neyther hath it any thing that of it selfe is superstitious or vngodly And therefore whosoeuer are consecrated or ordered according to the Rytes of that booke we decree all such to be rightly orderly and lawfully consecrated and ordered Moreouer how it agreeth with the Gospell and true Christianitie That Apocripha bookes and the booke of Homilies be read in the church by the Ministers diligentlie and distinctlie As is in Art 6. and 35. of that doctrine and booke aforesaid H. IACOB his 1. Reply to the 3. Excep YOur third Exception is this That the 36. Article of ordaining Bishops Priests and Deacons Also the reading of Apocripha bookes and Homelies in the Church agree not with true Christianitie Ergo the Assumption aboue is false that is the whole doctrine of that booke of Articles is not sufficient to make vs true Christians I answer you should haue said those poincts destroy vtterly true Christianity Ergo c. Else the Argument followeth not But then we deny flatly the Antecedent or first part of the reason But your Reason you will say shall goe as you haue put it Then marke these reasons euen as good as yours and all one An Ethiopian is white of his teeth therefore he is a white man A Swanne is black of his bill therefore a Swanne is black My brother hath an eye of glasse or he hath a wodden legge therfore my brother is no true man F. IOHNSON his Defence of his 3. Excep OVr third Exception was this Whereas they referred vs to their booke of Artieles 1562. were quired that they should shew by the Scriptures how the 36. Article there mentioned which is of the booke of consecrating Archbiships and Bishops and of ordeyning Priests and Deacons And howe also the 6. and 35. Articles of that booke enioyning the Apocripha bookes and Homilies to bee read in the Church by the Ministers distinctlie and diligentlie Howe these J say doe agree with the Gospell of Christ and true Christianitis Now I pray you haue they shewed vs these things by the Scriptures as we desired nothing lesse First therefore marke this heere and euerie where also in their reasons and answeres that though wee call neuer so much to them for proofe and euidence from the Scriptures yet they neuer bring it but labour to put it off with other shiftes deuices of their owne As if our consciences were to be built vpon their fancies and not vppon the written worde of God But what doe they say to our demaund First they tell vs These thinges doe not vtterly destroy true Christianitie Secondly they graunt notwithstanding that they agree with it as blacke doeth with white that is they are cleane contrarie vnto it For this their similitudes doe import Nowe whereas they alleadge That these thinges destroy not true Christianitie We answere That euen that Hyerarchie worship constitution and gouernement which they professe and practize as appeareth by those and other their Articles and iniunctions in our former answere alleadged to which yet we haue receyued no aunswere being directly Antichristian doe * Nota vtterlie destroy true Christianitie so as the people and Churches so professing and practizing can not in that estate by the worde of God be iudged true Christians or the true constituted Churches of Christ. And touchinge the similitudes here vsed besides that which we haue noted before we adde moreouer that they are not against vs but against them selues in asmuch as comparing the doctrines of the Gospell which they professe with the whitenes of an Aethiopians teeth And their Antichristian Ministerie Worshop courtes and confusion of people with the blackenes of an Aethiopians body This and such like similitudes doe fitlie declare their estate And the approouing of the black constitution of their church Assemblies by some white doctrines of the Gospell which they professe Is euen as if they should reason thus An Aethiopian is white of his teeth therefore he is a white man A blacke Rauen is white of his bill Therefore a blacke Rauen is a white bird H. IACOB his 2. Reply to the 3. Exception YOur Third Exception is That the 16. Article of cōsecrating Bishops Priests and the 6. and 35. Artic of Apocripha and Homelies doe not agree with the Gospel What then Ergo our Churches profession and practize differ Most false For our Churches doe professe that these things doe agree with Gospell well enough Also their practise is thereafter Or doe you conclude Ergo our Churches holde not Christ to saluation In deede so I tooke your purpose at the first but nowe in plaine categoricall termes you auouch it That these things being directlie Antichristian doe vtterlie destroy true Christianitie So then Cranmer Ridley Latimer c. were verie Antichristes and no true Christians As before also I trowe you affirmed Surely this grosse and wicked absurditie I could not open better then by this similitude This man hath a wodden legge an eye of glasse his nose deformed adde if you will both his armes not naturall but framed to him of wood or what you will Ergo this is no true man Yes Sir for all this he is a true man For as much as all this concernes not the verie life and being of a man though
therewith And thus their Obiection of the Iewish constitution is I trust fully answered So that still their peremptory separation and condempning of the Churches of England for some outward corruptions temayneth still a grieuous sinne vpon their heades for which without harty repentance they shall one day answer before God which will be too heauie a burthen for them to beare Lastly concerning our corruptions As we cannot iustifie them to be no corruptions but must needes acknowledge that there are many yet remaining in our land which were left by that man of sinne are as thornes vnto our sides Iudg. 2.3 which we hope God will in time abolish So dare we not runne into your extremities to condempne our Churches for such corruptions but waight the appoincted time of God for the redresse thereof Yet in the meane time so longe as those most excellent truthes and doctrines of saluation for which God make vs thankfull are still reteyned and held as soundly as by any Church vpon the face of the earth the other errors not simply ouerthrowing the same beeing not held of obstinacy and being also for the most parte of great controuersie and disputation amonge the learned So long I say communion in things lawfull is to be kept with them as before is noted in the example of other Churches Otherwise it will come to passe by reason of the * Mat. 25.13 to 23. diuersitie in opinions and iudgmentes which by the corruption of our nature we remaine in in this tabernacle as hath “ Leu. 4. Psal 19.12 bene in all ages and * 1 Cor. 13.9 12. shal be so long as this life of imperfection indureth that no communion can euer bee had with any Church liuing no nor any one Christian with another Which to affirme were most absurd and vngodly These obseruations beeing considered I doubt not but the Lorde will adde a blessing to this worke That such as are simple hearted and haue exceeded in eagernesse of zeale may see their extremitie in so rashly and vnaduisedly separating from and condempning the Churches of England sometimes their Nurses and Mothers as before is noted Whereby God may haue the glory and themselues the comforte euen the saluation of their soules through Christ D. B. AN ARGVMENT PROVING THAT the Churches of England are the true Churches of God VVHatsoeuer is sufficient to make a particuler man a true Christian and in state of saluation That is sufficient to make a companie so gathered togeather to bee a true Church BVt the whole doctrine as it is publiquelie * Booke of Articles published Anno 1562. professed and practized by law in England is sufficient to make a particuler man a true Christian and in state of saluation * See further for these words in Pag. 3. and our publique Assemblies are therein gathered togeather THerefore it is sufficient to make the publique Assemblies true Churches H. IACOB Against the Assumption of the said Argument Mr Iohnson made 3. Exceptions and 9. Reasons which hereafter follow in order Together with Mr Iacobs Replies vnto the same But before we come to the examination of the saide Assumption let vs see first what he saith against the Proposition Fr. IOHNSON TO omitt the Proposition vntill it better appeare by their defence of the Assumption how to take and vnderstand it we will for the present only shewe the weakenes of the Assumption and this also the rather because they seeme wholy to depend vpon it H. IACOB THe answerer omitteth the Proposition for in deed it is most certen But he denyeth the Assumption which yet is as certen also That the doctrine in our booke of Articles is sufficient to make a true Christian Fr. IOHNSON In our former answere to this argument we omitted the proposition not because of the certentie of it euery way as the Replier dreameth but vntill we might see by his defence of the †The Assumption is examined and maintained Pag. 4. assumption how to take it as thē we noted Nowe therefore hauing seene in his reply the vnlearned vngodly and vnconscionable pretences by which he would seeme to defende the Assumption when in deed he doth nothing else but cast a miste before the eyes of the simple we giue him to vnderstand that the whole argument is lame and faultie in euery parte thereof The Proposition is not absolutelie true as it appeareth he vnderstandeth it by his defence of the Assumption The Assumption is not only false as we proued in our former answer but also lacketh a foote whereon it should goe if it were perfect and entier For whereas in the Proposition mention is made not only of the making of a true Christian but also of a companie so gathered together he should in the Assumption if he would haue had it sound and perfect not onely haue assumed that the doctrine c. is sufficient to make a true Christian but haue added also that their assemblies be cōpanies so gathered togither Which being not done both the Assumption wanteth one of the feete and the conclusion inserreth more then was in the premisses and so the whole silogisme is faultie and disfigured Thus might we without any further answer returne this argument to the first framers of it to be better fashioned Yet in hope that they may bee brought through the blessing of God to receiue the loue of the trueth that they may be saued and with their giftes no more to plead for and deck the whore of Babilon to help forward the building beautifying of Sion we will more particularly lay open to them the weaknes of this his reply And first whereas he affirmeth that the Proposition is most certen yet in his defence of the Assumption he declareth that he so taketh it as whatsoeuer amongst them be iointly togeather held and ioyned with that which otherwise might make a ture Christian or a true Church yet notwithstanding they are so to be reputed as if there were no such additions or commixtures we answere that in this sence the Proposition neither is nor can be absolutely true as it ought to be if they would haue their argument good For who knoweth not that such “ Gal. 5.2.4 things may bee ioined with Christ as abolish from Christ. And againe †2. Cor. 6.14 25. that Christ and Antichrist can not accord togither Either therefore the Proposition is not generall but admitteth limitations and then is not the Argument good Or if it bee generall without any limitation so as whatsoeuer be added too or cōmingled with that which otherwise might make a true Christian or a true Church yet it hindreth nothing at all Thē is it not absolutely true in such vnderstanding as may appeare by the former exceptions diuers other that might be alleadged Next touching the Assumption besides that it is lame as before is shewed it is also vntrue as in our former answer appeareth Some balme in deed this man
confesse that our publike practise is agreable to our profession in that booke Nay saith he but proue you your assemblies to be such and if you can proue them where and what are your proofs if you do not you are confuted A worthy confutacion sure very Clercklike As if my Tenaunt should deny me rent for my house land yea and go to law with me for the fee simple which he hath holden in ferme of me these 40. yeares and I haue hetherto quietlie enioyed from my Auncestours time out of minde Now he suing me at law for that which I thus possesse faith proue your right to this land which you haue if you can what and where be your proofes let me see them Or els I your Tenaunt will haue it This were goodly dealing were it not and very lawfull Euen so doe you asking proofes of vs for that which we possesse and haue possessed before you made any question about it nay you your selues held parte of this possession of vs and with vs till yesterday when you began first to lay claime in this sorte to the whole Now your reason is let vs proue it to be ours where be our proofs Or els you will not acknowledge vs any longer see I pray you your owne equity If this suffice not to make you desist I leaue it to the Iudges to giue sentence Secondly note further Our Article saith A Church is where the word is preached Sacraments ministred according to all things that of necessitie are requisite Where we plainly insinuate that many errors may be added truthes wanting in a visible Church but nothing which is absolutely necessary Now what doth our practize in Preaching or Sacraments want that is absolutely necessarie without which there cannot be any true preaching or Sacraments at all shew it vs because we see it not our selues I assure you vntill then your first reason hath no reason in it F. IOHNSON his Defence of his 1. Excep HOw fit or vnfit the said discription of a visible Church mentioned in the 19. Article of the said book is we neither did nor doe examine Onely because this is their owne profession and wee see their practise is contrary vnto it we did therfore from hence take our first exception requiring of them to shew their assemblies to be such or els to know that their own discription is a witnes against themselues Now in their reply haue they according to the particulers of that description iustified their Church-assemblies nothing lesse Let this therefore be first obserued But what then haue they donne Surely this First pretending as if they repeated our exception and their owne discription they leaue out diuers perticulers of speciall moment there expressed as first where the visible Church is discribed to bee a congregation of faithfull men they leaue out these wordes of faithfull men belike knowing that their Congregations which are holds of all foule spirits and cages of euery vncleane and hatefull bird Reuel 18.2 cannot therefore iustly bee accoumpted congregations of faithfull men Secondly where the description speaketh that the Sacraments be duely ministered they leaue out the word duely because it crosseth their womens Baptisme priuate Communion receiuing of the most prophane and their seede c. Lastly where in the description it is reqaired both for preaching the pure word and due administration of the Sacraments that they be donne according to Christes ordinance they leaue out altogither these words according to Christes ordinance belike because this clause quite ouerthroweth both their Antichristian Prelacy from which all the inferior Ministers amongst them receiue power and authoritie to preach and minister the Sacramentes and their Priesthood and Deaconery wherein they all administer and their stinted imposed prayers exhortations crosses on the forehead questiones to the infantes vse of the same wordes in English in ministering the Lords supper which the papists vsed and still vse in Latine not reteyning the words of Christs institution and such like Now thus hauing left out such perticulers as were of spetiall moment against them they next demaund wherein their practize is contrary to their profession and discription of a visible Church in what things that of necessitie are requisite We aunswere in all the particulers of that description aforesaid For firste their Church-assemblies are not congregations of faithfull men but a confusion of all manner of people though neuer so wicked and prophane The “ D. Whithg last booke pag. 176. and 178. Prelates and Formalistes affirme that their Church is full of Atheistes Papistes Idolaters Drunkards Whoremōgers such like The †Sermon on Rom. 12. pag. 65. and 66. Demonstratiō in the preface forward Preachers likewise auerre that in their church are swarmes of Atheists Idolators Papistes erronious hereticall sectaries Witches Charmers Sorcerers Murtherers Theeues Adulterers Lyers c. Finally that a mā may be any thing amongst thē sauing a sound Christian. These things being so as both their estate and writings beare witnesse let themselues iudge whether their Assemblies can be accounted Congregations of faithfull men or no which is the first poinct of the description aforesaid Secondly in the same description is required That the pure worde of God be preached according to Christes ordinance But amongst them are allowed besides the word of God the Apocripha bookes and in stead of preaching the worde the reading of Homilies as may appeare in that booke of Articles alleadged by themselues Yet who knoweth not that in those bookes are diuers vntruthes errors contradictions blasphemies and such like So farre are they from being the pure word of God or agreeing therewith Moreouer when and where the worde is preached among them it is done by vertue of a false office and calling neuer appointed by Christ. And the Ministers that preach it doe in their constitution stand alwayes subiect to be silenced suspended excommunicated and degraded by the Prelates and Ordinaries to whom when they are made Priestes they promise and when they enter vpon a benefice they sweare Canonicall obedience Neither are they suffered any further to preach the word and trueth of God then agreeth with the Articles Iniunctions aduerticements and caueats in that behalfe prouided If any preach the worde of God anie further they are subiect to be silenced banished put to death That these things accord with the ordinance of Christ or with their owne description of a visible Church we suppose themselues will not for shame affirme it Lastlie in their description it is required That the Sacramentes bee duely ministred according to the ordinance of Christ in all things that of necessitie are requisite to the same Nowe by the ordinance of Christ in the administration of the Sacramentes there are necessarilie required 1. A lawfull Minister 2. A lawfull people And thirdly A lawfull administration according to the Testament of Christ In all which their practize is conerarie to the ordinance of Christ and their
own description aforesaid Their Ministers all of them are either Prelates Priestes or Deacons which amongst them is a step to the Priesthood none of which Christ hath ordeyned in his Testament for the worke of his ministerie Their people are not separated from the world but stande in confusion with it and in subiection to the Antichristian Prelates and Prelacie See Iohn 15.19 17.14.16 1. Iohn 4.5 6 Act. 2.40 and 19.9 Reuel 18.4 14.9 And therefore can not be deemed a true church of God the people of Christ vnto whom in such estate the Sacraments which are seales of the couenant of grace doe apperteyne and may be administred Finally their administration is acçording to the inuentions and precepts of man with stinted prayers exhortations Epistles and Gospels and besides those in Baptisme crossing on the forehead questions to the infant in the Lords supper translating and vsing out of the Masse booke other wordes then the wordes of Christes institution and such like as may bee seene at large in their booke of common prayer which is picked and culled out of the Masse booke full of all abominations as “ Admonitiō to the Parlament second treatis themselues haue published heretofore These things we haue ben forced thus to mention at large both because they twice demaund as if they knewe not themselues wherein their practise is contrarie to that description aforesaid and because they blush not to affirme that all the Christian world seeth and confesseth their practize to be aggreeable to their profeession in that booke Whereas the contrarie is most true Touching which what themselues haue heretofore written to the contrarie See in the Admonitions to the Parleament Replyes of T. C. against D. Whitguift Demonstration of Discipline c And what the reformed Churches professe to the contrarie see in the Frenche Belgicke and Heluetian Churches and in the Harmonie of cōfessions Sect. 10. 11. which would be too long to set downe at large in this place Neither is it needfull seeing it is most euident in the books and places alleadged whether we referre the Reader Thus also it appeared what iust cause wee had to put them to proue their assemblies to be such as themselues discribe visible Churches to bee Which seing they haue not yet done and seing their practice is contrarie to their profession as now at their request we haue shewed in the perticulers aforesaid If they still bee minded as before wee doe also still aske where and what are their proofes touching the perticulers mentioned in their owne description of a visible Church Their similitude of a Landlord and Tennaunt is against themselues so wortthy and Clercklike is their reply If any haue vsurped or otherwise made a false clame neuer so long to a piece of lād or other possession may they not iustly be called vpon to shew their title bring fourth their euidence Let the Iudges giuē sentence If I deny their clame and title to be such let him shew their euidence from the Apostles writinges Let vs from thence see their euidence for the offices of Archbs. Lordbs Suffraganas Archdeacons Chauncelers Commissaries Officials Priests Parsons Vicars Cnraets c For their entrance into their Offices according to their Cannons and Booke of ordering Priestes and Deacons and of consecrating Archbishops and Bishops For their administration by their stinted imposed Liturgy and by their Popish Cannons Officers and proceedings For their Churching of women praying ouer the dead Holy-dayes to Saints and Angels Fastes on their Eaues c. For their maintenance by Tythes Chrisomes Offerings c. For their confused communion of all sortes of people though neuer so wicked in the body of their Church c. Let them I say shewe vs euidence for those from the Apostles writinges if they deny their claime to bee such as wee haue noted Otherwise if they †Isay 8.20 speake not according to this word it is because there is no light in them neither any right to that they challendge Where they say vve held part of their possession vvith thē heretofore If they meane that we with them receiued the beastes marke and drunke of the cup of Babels abominations we deny it not but acknowledge Gods mercy that passing ouer our sinnes hath giuen vs grace and strength at his “ Reue. 18.4 2 Cor. 6.17 18 Actes 2.4 commaundement to forsake that way of Antichrist and to come out of that spirituall Babilon to saluation of our soules which mercy wee wish also vnto these men that so being saued from this froward generatiō they may become the sonnes and daughters of the Lord almighty in Christ our Sauiour Touching their Article Preaching Sacraments Ministration c. enough is said before Onely where they say they see not themselues wherin they faile touching Preaching or Sacramēts in things necessary It is too impudent vntruth as their * Admonition to the Parliament T. C. his replies in defence thereof Demonstratiō of discipline Declaration defence of Ecclesiastical discipline c. former writtings doe and will alwayes testifie to their faces which wee will not stand here to relate That shall suffice which we haue touched before which till it bee aunswered it will be found that our first exception hath both reason and weight in it whatsoeuerthey doe or can pretend to the contrarie H. IACOB his 2. Reply to the 1. Excep HEre is much adoe to no purpose You obserue 4. pointes in our Article omitted by mee vvherein our practize is contrarie to our profession Firste our Article requireth a visible Church to bee an assembly of faithfull men But our assemblies say you are not so This is false they are so you shall neuer proue in vs the contrarie more then appeareth was in the Church of the Iewes both Auncient and in the time of Christ And yet they then were the true Church As I haue elswhere in this Booke sufficiently proued and shewed against you That which you bring of D. Whitgift and other writers amongst vs of the prophanesse of many in our assemblies you depraue their meaninges vtterlie for though they graunt verie many such to be amongst vs yet they say not that all our assemblies are such nor our whole assemblies Neither denie they our assemblies to be companies of faithfull men or vtterly to be separated from Nay the contrarie doe they euen that onely they ought to be reformed Therefore you too grossely abuse them Secondly The Article requireth the pure worde of God to be preached But say you the Apocrypha books reading of Homilies other errors are allowed in our practize Yea surely in our professiō too as your selfe obserueth in the book of Artic. yet then our profession practise differ not as you charg our Churches But these poinctes are not the pure word of God Neither doth the Article meane that in a visible church euery iot title both of our professiō practize must needs be
these be most vnnaturall additions and very manie The like doe I affirme of these externall corruptions in the Church Which my sentences you goe not about to refute but onelie with wordes with bare yea and nay and no more Mr Iohnsons I. REASON against the former Assumption with Mr Iacobs Replies to the same Hauing before noted 3. Exceptions out of their doctrine and booke alleadged we nowe proceede to shewe the weakenes of their Assumption aforesaid by these 9. Reasons following REASON I. THat which ioyneth Christ and Antichrist togeather can not make a true Christian 2 Cor. 6.14 15 16. with Ezech. 43.8 and 2. Kings 17.33 34 40 41. Bvt that doth the doctrine and booke alleadged as may be seene by comparing the 35. and 36. Articles with the rest And furthermore it appeareth both by their profession which is to be seene in their booke of Cannons set foorth anno 1571. and in other their Articles Jniunctions Aduertisements c. published at other tymes and by their practize also which is to be seene in their Ministerie Worship and Church gouernement euen to this day Therefore c. H. IACOB his 1. Reply to the 1. Reason THis your first Reason is thus That which ioyneth Christ and Antichrist togeather can not make a true Christian But that doth this Booke Ergo c. I say you must mende your vnproper speache that Christ and Antichrist is there ioyned togeather you meane Christ and some outward ceremonies and orders of Antichrist then so speake and say not Christ and Antichrist simply Which things yet we thinke to be Christes own as we * Pag. 12. 18. 19. shewed in the Second Exception before Therefore this reason is answered as the last Exception before The Swanne is blacke of his bill Ergo the Swan is blacke and my brother hath a wodden legge Therfore my brother is a wodden man So here this booke ioyneth Christ and some orders of Antichrist Therefore it ioyneth Christ and Antichrist togeather which are most fonde conclusions Furthermore the scriptures alleadged 2 Cor. 6. Ezek 43. 2. Kings 17. are wholy mismatched the ioyning there forbidden is vnto such idolatrie as can not stande by any meanes with Christian faith and breaketh most directlie the First commandment Our transgression your selues do iudge to be but against the Second and such as hath stood and may stand togeather with true faith as in Maister Cranmer c. * Namely the Idolaters in those places spoken of They did not so much as professe the written lawe to be their rule neither for outwarde orders nor their inward doctrines of faith But your selues knowe we professe and practise that namely so as is shewed before in the Seconde “ Pag. 11. 1. 18. Exception Therfore to applie those scriptures in this vnto vs is your great sinne euen against the third Commaundment which is your common custome as all doe see and pitie viz. To take the name of God in vaine by misusing his worde F. IOHNSON his Defence of his 1. Reason HIs answere here is First concerning the Proposition of this reason then concerning the Assumption Concerning the Proposition First he saith Our speach is vnproper that Christ and Antichrist is there amongst them ioyned togeather Secondly he taketh vpō him to expound our words and meaning to be thus Christ and some outward ceremonies and orders of Antichrist To this we answere First that it is meete that we not he expound our owne meaning whiche togeather with the proprietie of the speech will afterwards appeare in our defence of the Assumption against his answere thereto His answere therefore concerning the Assumption is this First That the things among them which we charg to be of Antichrist they thinke to be Christes owne For proofe whereof here ferreth vs to his answere to our Second exception going before whether also we referre the Reader for answere to him againe Secondly forgetting him selfe he graunteth that in deed they be orders of Antichrist yet that they are but as the blacknes of the Swannes bill to the rest of the body Well then by his owne confession they are of Antichrist and therefore not Christes owne as before he saide and laboured to prooue Thus at once both he contradicteth him selfe and ouerthroweth that which he answered * Pag. 1◠before to our Second exception This were sufficient to manifest their deceiptfull and euill dealing But that it may more fullie appeare specially seeing bee would dazell the peoples eyes with these mincing wordes of some outward ceremonies orders of Antichrist comparing them with the blacknes of the swans bill as if they were but a fewe and of small moment Therefore will we reckon vp some of their Antichristian enormities and abhominations for it vere infinite to nomber them all And then let the Reader iudge of his inswere and their estate whether it be not more like the blacke Rauen with a white bill then the white Swanne with a blacke Sorie we are that we should thus trouble the Reader or our selues specially considering that alreadie we haue mencioned diuers of the particulars following But seeing we are constreyned herevnto by their slie and colourable answere in this place therefore can we not but doe it for the clearer manifestation of the trueth better discouering of their deceiptfulnes In which respects we intreate the Reader also to take in good parte and duely to weigh the repetition and recapitulation following Antichristian abominations yet reteyned in England 1 The cōfusion of al sortes of people in the bodye of their Church euen the most polluted and their seede beeing members thereof 2 The offices and callinges of Arch L. Bishops 3 Lord Bishops 4 Suffragans 5 Prelates Chauncellours 6 Deanes 7 Subdeanes 8 Prebendaries 9 Cannons 10 Petty cannons 11 Chaunters 12 Virgerers 13 Pistlers 14 Gospellers 15 Queristers men and boyes 16 Organistes 17 Organ Flowers 18 Arch deacons 19 Subdeacons 20 Deacons or half priests 21 Priestes 22 Parsons 23 Vicars 24 Curates 25 Vagrant Mercinarie Preachers 26 Churchwardens 27 Clerkes and Sexions 28 Chaplaynes 29 Doctors of Diuinitie 30 Bachelours of Diuini 31 Doctors and 32 Proctors in the Prelates courtes 33 Commissaries 34 Officialls 35 Registers 36 Summoners with the rest of that Antichristian and viperous generation 37 Their Ministration of the word Sacramentes gouernment of their church by voriue of the offices aforesaid 38 The titles of Primate Metropolitane Lordes grace Lordship c. ascribed to the Prelates 39 The inferior Prelates swearing obedience to the Metropoliticall seas of Cāturburie York 40 The inferiour Ministers when they enter into the Ministerie promising obedience to the prelats their ordināces and when they are inducted to benefices confirminge it with their oath 41 The Deacons and Priests presentations to a Lorde Bishoppe by an Archdeacon 42 Their receyuing of orders of the Prelates or their Suffraganes 43 Their Pontificall or Booke of consecratinge Bishops and of ordering Priestes Deacons taken
in the mouthes of his weakest seruantes except they haue authoritie from earthlie Princes Which doctrine is against the Kinglie power of Christ and these scriptures Mat 28.18 Actes 3.23 1 Cor. 1. 27. Psal 2.6 9 10 12. Esai 9.6 7. Zach. 4.6 and 6.12.23 Dan. 2.44 and 7.27 and 9.25 Mich. 5.7 Mat. 28.20 1 Cor. 14.27 with 1 Thes 4.8 Phil. 2.6 12. 1 Tim. 6.13 14.15 Rene. 1.5 and 14.12 and 17.14 19 16. and 20.4 3 That the true visible Church of Christ is not a separated companie of righteouse men and women from the Jdolaters and open wicked of the world but may consist of all sortes of people good bad Which doctrine is contrarie to the paterne of Christs Church throughout all the scriptures Gen. 4.26 with 6.2 Exod. 4.22 23. Leuit. 10.10 and 20.24 25 26 Psal 24.3 4. Ezra 6.21 2 Chron. 11.13 16. Nehem. 10.28 Eze. 22.26 with 44.23 Zeph. 3.4 Mat. 3.10 12. Act. 2.40 41 42. and 19.9 Rom. 12.1 8. 2 Cor. 6.17 18. 1 Pet. 2.9 10. Reu. 14.9 12. and 18.4 and 21.27 and 22.14 15. c. 4 That they may mainteyne this error of their confused order and mixture of all sortes of persons togeather they peruert the Parable of the tares Mat. 13.24 teaching that all are the Church Which doctrine is against the trueth of the scriptures yea against our Sauiours owne interpretation in the 38. verse who teacheth that by the field is meant not the Church but the world in which his Church is milatāt And as therin there is the good seede the righteous the Children of the Kingdome So there are also tares hipocrites the childrē of the wicked who as they are often espied in this life by the righteous seruauntes of God so shall they in that great day be perfectlie seuered from the godly by the Angels of God verse 38.43 This their doctrine also is against the heauenlie orders mentioned Matt. 18.8 9 15 16 17. 1 Corint 1.26.29 Actes 2.40.41 47. and 5.26 27 28. and 19 9. and 5.4 7. 2 Cor. 6.17 18. Leuit. 18.29 1 Tim. 6.5 2 Iohn verse 6.11 Reuel 2. and 3. and 14.9.12 and 18.4 and 20.4 5 That the people may tollerate and ioyne with open iniquitie in the Church vntill by the Magistrate it be redressed which doctrine is contrary to these riptures 2 Cor. 10.4 5. Mat. 28.21 Acts. 2.40 3.23 and 4.19 and 9.26 and 19.9 1 Tim. 5.22 Deu. 5.32 6 That the guiftes of interpretation and application of the Scriptures are a sufficient and lawfull calling to the ministerie c. Which doctrine is both false and Anabaptisticall contrarie to the scriptures Heb. 5.4 Rom 12.6 7 8. Leuit. 22.25 Ezek. 44.8 9 c. Num. 1.51 and 3.10 38 and 16.40 and 18.2 3 4. Act. 1.20.26 and 14.23 and 13.2.3 7 That the Church may yeelde obedience vnto other lawes cannons and traditions officers and offices then God hath prescribed in his Conenant Which doctrine is contrarie to Gen. 49.10 Mal. 6.24 Iohn 10 4 5. Ren. 14.4 and 22 18 19. Heb. 3 1 c 8 That the Church may read other mens wordes vppon a booke and offer them vp to God as their owne prayers and sacrifices in the publique Assemblies Which doctrine is contrarie to the scriptures Esai 29.13 14. Rom. 8.26 1 Cor. 14.15 Mat. 6.6.9 and 15.9 Mar. 7.7 Ephe. 4.7 8. 1 Pet. 2.5 9 That it is lawfull to ioyne with the Ministerie of dumb and Jdoll Priests and to receiue the Sacramentes at their handes Which doctrine is contrarie to Mal. 15.14 and 7.19 and 24.24 25. Iohn 10.1.5 Num. 16 5 9 24 26 39 40 c. 1 Tim 6.5.2 Iohn verse 6.11 10 That it is lawfull for a Minister of Christ to cease preaching forsake his flock at the Commaundement of a Lord Bishop Which doctrine is contrarie to 1 Cor. 9.16 Esay 62.4 6 7. Ier. 48.10 Zach. 11.17 Iohn 10.11 12 13. Actes 4.18 19 20 and 5.29 Amos 7.12 13 14 15. 2 Tim. 4.2 11 That the Church of Christ hath not alwayes power to binde and loose to receiue in and to cast out by the Keyes of the Kingdome Which doctrine is contrarie to Mat. 18.17 18. Psal 149.9 1 Cor. 5.4 5.12 Num. 5 2 3. 12 That it is lawfull for the people of God to heare notorious false prophetes in their Ministerie Which doctrine is contrarie to Deut. 18.15 Mat. 17.5 and 7.15.2 John verse 10.11 1 Cor. 10.18 Gala. 1 8 9. Reuel 14 9 10 11. and 18.4 John 10.96 13 That it is the Church and house of God the body and kingdome of Christ where he reigneth not by his own Ordinances Officers but the highest Ecclesiasticall authoritie is in the handes of strange Lordes and Antichristian Prelates who also gouerne by Romishe Cannons and not according to the lawes of Christes Testament Which doctrine and practise is condemned by Luke 19.14 27. Iohn 15.14 Rom. 6.16 Luke 22.25 26. 1 Pet. 3.2 Thes 2 3.4 Iohn 3.35.36 Reuel 9.3 and 14.9.10.11 and 19.14.15 14 That there may be a prescript Leiturgie and sett fourme of seruice in the Church framed by man which doctrine is contrarie to Deut. 5.8 Esai 29.13 14. Mat. 15.9 and 7.6.7 Gal. 3.15 Iohn 4.24 Rom. 8.26.27 Ephe. 4.7.8 15 That an Antichristian Prelate notwithstanding his dignitie as it is called spirituall may be a Ciuill Magistrate and obeyed of the people as their lawfull gouernour Which doctrine is contrarie to Rom. 13.1 c. Mat. 20.25 26. Mar. 10.42 43. Luke 22.25 26. Reuel 14.9 10 11. and 17.18 16 That men may giue the titles of Christ Jesus vnto these sonnes of men and his mortall enemies to call them their Arch and Lord Bishops Reuerend Fathers c. Which doctrine is contrarie to Mat. 23 8 9 10. Esai 42.8 and 48.11 Pro. 17.15 and 24.24 Esai 5.20 2 Cor. 6.14.17 17 That it is lawfull for a Minister of Christ to be mainteyned in his ministerie by the goods of wicked and vnbeleeuers by Iewish and Popishe tythes and offeringes Which doctrine is contrarie to Prou. 27.26 27. 1 Cor. 9.13 14. Phil. 4.10.18 Gal. 6.6 Rom. 15.27 Heb. 7.12 These are the 17 poinctes which were mentioned before in the proofe of this reason which the aduersarie hath left altogeather vnanswered as he hath done also their owne Cannons Articles and Iniunctions which are to be seene in their printed bookes And thus is he driuen againe againe whether he will or not to yeeld vs the cause That which he addeth in the next place of their not wholy denying the trueth nor fundamentally nor obstinately peruerslie and desperatlie any parte thereof is answered before in the defence of our second Exception and of our sixt and seauenth Reasons Nowe when he next saith That they are not herein like those Iewes Act. 19.9 whom Paule separated from which he did not from all other Iewes Actes 13.14 and 16 3 and 21 23 24 26. and 3.1 Firste wee aske What if they be not in all respectes like vnto those
bringeth to cure it but it hath no other effect saue onely to manifest to vs so much the more that the soare of their Assemblies cannot be healed In our former answere we first tooke 3. Exceptions against them comparing together their profession and practise then we alleadged 9. Reasons directly concluding the falshood of the Assumption H. IACOB BEfore I examine this your answer I would desire you and all others to note that all your Exceptions and Reasons with your defence of them hereafter following doe consist of these three generall pointes 1. That euerie person in England holding our publik faith is no true Christian 2. That all the Christians and Churches in King Edwards time and namelie Maister Cramner M. Ridley M. Hooper M. Latimer M. Philpot M. Saunders M. Rogers M. Taylor c. were all lims of Antichrist and no true Christians 3. That euery soule in England is convicted in conscience that the Praelacie is vnlawfull and vntollerable The First of these is our maine question and the grounde of all our reasoning which you gainsay The Second though it be not expreslie spoken yet it is directlie euidently and vndeniably concluded by all euery of your arguments against vs. As in the seueralls hereafter we shal see The Third you are driuen vnto for defence of your former Assertion which else falleth to the grounde And this you affirme flatly in your defence of your 1.6 and 7. Reasons Nowe my desire is that all men would take notice of these your 3 Assertions and consider indifferentlie vvhether they proceede from an honest a sober or a Christian minde And you M. Iohnson if you list hereafter to say any more defende these 3. pointes directly and plainly that your ansvveres may be briefer and more certen then now they are Novve I come to the particular examination of your former answerere First you say You omitted the Proposition before not for the soundnes of it but only because you would see howe I meant it Why He that hath but halfe an eye may see the meaning of those vvordes where is no darknes nor doubtfulnes of sence at all What fault finde you in it nowe Forsooth first a want in the Assumption then vntruethes both in the Proposition and Assumption of my Sillogisme There wanteth you say that I should expresse in the Assumptiō That our Assemblies be companies gathered togeather in the doctrines ordinances which we all by lawe publiquely professe and practise Who but a wrangler would not vnderstand that I meant so much Nay doe not my expresse wordes imply asmuch vvhen I say We by lavve publiquely professe and practise them Then are not our Assemblies vvhich are by lavv gathered together in this profession povver Fy for shame these are sencelesse cauilations But because vvhat in me lyeth I vvould not haue you any more to stumble at a strawe I haue to satisfie you vvithall Not that the Argumēt is vnsound without this addition But because the Reader may see howe you will play at a smal game rather then sit out vt aiunt novve added those words to the Assumption aforesaid in a contrarie letter which you desire viz. and our publike assemblies are therein gathered togeather Secondly you say that my proposition meaneth that what soeuer is held togeather and ioyned with that which otherwise might make a true Christian or a true Church Yet notwitstanding they are so to be reputed as if there were no such additions or comixtures O strange dealing in all my writing I haue no such worde no silable no letter sounding to that sence I haue directly contrary in my answere to your Fourth Reason as your self noteth there Yet yow M. Iohnson with out al shame in the view of the world doe Father on me this foule vntruth and most sencelesse errour in your first entrance Further where as it seemeth you reproue my Proposion requiring to to haue it set thus Whatsoeuer is sufficient to make a particuler man a true Christian and hath nothing added with it distroying the foundation of faith That is sufficient to make a company so gathered togither a true Church You must know Mr. Iohnson that that were an idle vaine addition for wheresoeuer there are any such things added distroying faith there whatsoeuer else seemeth sufficient indeed it is not sufficient to make a true Christian Wherefore nodum in scirpo quaeris this is to finde a knot in a rush Thus much concerning the trunes of my Proposition The Assumption examined by the Exceptions and Reasons following Lastly you come to deny my Assumption or rather to maintaine your denyall heretofore giuen Where first note that by denying my assumption yovv affirme the first generall poinct noted in this beginning That euery particuler person in England holding our publike faith here is not true Christian Which O Lorde who would not tremble to thinke on Euen that which this man aboue two yeares a goe affirmed and now againe aduisedly and wilfully defendeth I take heauen and earth to record this day whether this be not desperate madnes yea or no. But let vs examine your exceptions and reasons against my Assumption more particularly we shall see what stuffe it is Your first exception against the same is as followeth Maister Iohnsons I. Exception against the former Assumption with Maister Iacobs Replies to the same EXCEPTION I. FIrst let here be considered the 19. Article of that doctrine and booke which is alleaged by themselues for their defence and see if their profession and practize be not contrary one to an other Yea whether euen by their owne doctrine and confession conteyned in that booke it be not monifest that they haue not a true visible Church of Christ The words of the Article are these The visible Church of Christ is a Congregation of faithfull men in the which the pure word of God is preached Artic. 19. and the Sacraments be duely ministred according to Christs ordinance in all those things that of necessitie are requisite to the same These are their owne wordes and doctrine Now if they cannot proue their Assemblies to be such they may see that their own witnesses euen their own doctrine book alleadged giue verdict against thē If they can proue them to be such where and what are their proofes touching the particulers mentioned in this their owne discription of a visible Church of Christ H. IACOB his I. Reply to the 1. Excep THis his first Exception is the 19. Article of this very book which we alleage wherein a visible Church is discribed to be a Congregation where the pure word is preached and Sacramentes ministered according to all those thinges that of necessitie are requisite Now this discription he reiecteth not but our practise saith he is contrary and therefore we haue no true visible Churches nor Christians I answer wherin is it contrarie in what things that of necessite are requisite doth not all this Christian world see
popish shiftes euen the olde worne argumentes of antiquitie and vnwritten verities so often and so much stoode vppon by the Papistes Alas that these men should plead to be true Christians and yee thus openly take parte with Antichrist What shall we say to these things Surely God is iust and will verifie his word where he saieth That they which receyue not the loue of the trueth that they may bee saued hee will sende them stronge delusions to beleeue lyes that they may bee damned Fiftly note howe he maketh the ordinances touching outwarde gouernement and ceremonies to be no matters of faith neither writtē at all Surelie this is strange diuinitie It is an ordinance not onely concerning the inward but also the outward gouernment of the Church that Christ is Lord and King thereof It is therefore no matter of faith It cōcerneth the outward gouernment whether the Pope be vnder Christ head of the church or no Doeth it not therefore concerne faith Publique prayer preaching of the Word and hearing of it preached administration and receyuing of the Sacraments are matters concerning the outward gouernement and orders of the Church doe they not therefore touch faith Admonition and exhortation concerne also the outwarde gouernement of the Church doe they not therefore concerne faith Finally by this diuinitie the Sacraments of Baptisme and of the Lordes supper being ceremonies shal be no matters of faith at all amongst them But here they stay not but adde moreouer That the outward orders gouernement and ceremonies of the Church bee arbitrarie at the appointment of the Church and Magistrate and not certen nor written in the booke of God Whervpon it followeth that it is not certen nor taught in the scriptures but arbitrarie at the Churches Magistrates pleasure Whether Christ or the Pope of Rome or of Cāterburie be head and Archbishop of the Church of God Whether Jewes onely of the tribe of Leui may nowe minister the holy things of God in his Church Whether Christ haue giuen any giftes and set any offices in his Church for the Ministerie and guidance thereof Whether prayer must bee in a knowne or vnknowne tounge Whether the teaching and ruling Elders be to be had and honored Whether the church may excommunicate Whether the Popes or any other Prelates excommunication be to be regarded Whether there be two or three or seauen Sacramentes Whether the Passeouer Circumcision and other ceremonies and sacrifices of the Lawe be now to be vsed Whether the Heathenishe sacrifices and worship be to bee ioyned withall Whether creame oyle salt spitle crossing and coniuring be to be vsed in Baptisme Whether the bread onely and not the cup is to bee giuen to the lay people as they call them Whether holy water holy ashes holy palmes and such like be of the holy things of the church Whether the Iewish and Popish vestimentes fastes and holy dayes are to be obserued and a thousande such like which are all of them concerning the outward orders gouernement and ceremonies of the Church By these mens Diuinitie these and infinite such like are vnwritten and vncerten but left onely to the pleasure of the Church and Magistrate Moreouer if it please them the Princes and ciuill Magistrates may them selues be the publike ministers of the worde Sacraments and censures of the Church any that will may without a calling take vpon him to bee a publique officer in the church Women may baptise or administer the Lords supper The Jewishe Romish or Heathenish priesthood may be retayned Auricular confession may be vsed The Keyes of the kingdome of heauen may bee appropriated to the Pope of Rome or the Prelate of Canterburie or any other whom soeuer The Prelates and their Officials excommunications do binde in heauen The Apochriphall bookes and Decretall epistles are canonicall scriptures The Papes Portuis and the English booke of prayer taken out of it are the true and lawfull worship of God The Prelates and Priestes are the true and lawfull Ministers of God Orders pennaunce extreame vnction matrimonie c. are the Sacramentes of the Church Cap Surplis Cope Tippit Rotchet c. are ornamentes of the Ministerie Finally all ragges and trumperies of the Romish religion are good and lawfull if it please the Church and Magistrate For why They concerne the outward gouernement orders and ceremonies of the church And touching them say these men Christ hath not left any ordinances written certen or perpetuall but left them at the arbitrarie appointment of the Church and Magistrate Is not this straunge Diuinitie Yet they stay not there neither but as men that haue bent their tongues like bowes for lyes they feare not to adde moreouer that when the Church and Magistrate appointeth anie ordinances whether these or any other touching the outward gouernement ceremonies of the Church we are to account them to be Christes owne ordinances who hath left this libertie to the Church for to vse O shameles mouth O vnchristian hart Can any Papist or Atheist say more or can any desire a more euident proof then this that these men and assemblies thus holding professing and practizing as here them selues affirme can not in this estate by the word of God be deemed med true Christians and Churches Sixtly obserue howe yet moreouer they seeke shiftes would colour the matter pretending That the things which concerne outward gouernement and ceremonies are not of the foundation simply But this will helpe them no more then the other For first we aske are they of the foundation at all though not simply If they be then seeing they are not written not certen nor perpetuall as heere is affirmed it will followe that neither the whole foundation is written certen or perpetuall neither the Apostles were faithfuull and skilsull maister builders in the laying thereof If they be not then why is this worde simplie added as if they graunted that they were of the foundation though not simplie as they speake Secondlie wee aske whether the outwarde gouernement and ceremonies ordeyned by Christ for his church vnder the Gospell be not of the foundation asmuch as the outward gouernement and ceremonies appointed by Moses for the Church vnder the law Or if they be whether they are not as faithfully sett downe by Christ as the other were by Moses and as carefully to be obserued by vs as the other were by the Jewes Heb. 3.2.3 or rather much more inasmuch as Christ the Son is worthy more glorie and honour then Moses the seruant Thirdlie we aske what foundamentall poinctes Moses and Aaron with the rest of the Iewes ioyning with them helde that Corah Dathan Abiram and their companions held not Differing from them and erring only touching the Priesthood and Ministerie which concerned the outward orders gouernement of the Church was therefore Corah Dathan Abiram and their companies in that estate the true Jsraell of God Or were not the other truthes they helde by this meanes frustrate and of none effect
out of the Popes Pōtificall where their abuse of scripture to that ende their Collects Pistles c. may be scone 44 Their making and being made Priestes with blasphemie the Prelates saying to them whom they make Priestes Receiue the Holie Ghoste whose sinnes ye forgiue they are forgiuen c. 45 Their confoundinge of Ciuill and Ecclesiasticall offices and authoritie in Ecclesiasticall persons 46 Their reteyning and vsing in their publike worshippe the Apocrypha Bookes whiche haue in them diuers errours vntruethes blasphemies contradiction to the canonicall scriptures 47 Their stinted prayers and Leitourgie taken out of the Popes Masse booke with the same order of Psalmes Lessons Collectes Pater Nosters Pistles Gospels Versicles Responds c. 48 The Crosse in Baptisme 49 The Hallowed Ponte Questions to the Infants at Baptisme 50 The Godfathers and Godmothers promisinge that the childe doeth beleeue forsake the Deuill and all his workes c. 51 Weomans baptizinge of children which main teyneth that heresie that the children are damned which dye vnbaptised 52 Their howselinge of the sicke and Ministring the communion to one alone 53 The Ministring it not with the wordes of Christes institution but with other taken out of the Popes Portuis 54 Their selling that Sacrament for two pence to all commers 55 The receyuing of it kneeling which maketh it an Idoll and nourisheth that heresie of receyuinge their maker of worshipping it c. 56 Their Ring in Mariadge making it a Sacrament all signe and Mariadge an Ecclesiasticall action thereby nourishinge the Popishe heresie that Matrimonie is a Sacrament 57 Their praying ouer the dead makinge it also a parte of the Ministers duetie and nourishinge the heresie of prayer for the dend 58 Their churching or purifying of Women then also abusing that Scripture The Sunne shall not burne them by day nor the Moone by night 59 Their Gang weeke and prayinge then ouer the corne and grasse 60 Their forbidding of mariage in Gang weeke in Aduent in Lent and on all the Ember dayes which the Apostle calleth a doctrine of Deuils 1 Tim. 4.1 2 3. 61 Their Sainctes Angells and Apostles dayes with their prescript seruice 62 Their fastes and abstayning from fleshe on their Eaues on Frydayes Saturdayes Ember dayes and all Lent through 63 Their dispensations from the Prelates courts of Faculties to eat fleshe at these tymes Which dispensations also haue this wholesome caluse in them sana conscientia that is with a safe conscience plainelie shewing that they make it a matter of conscience This is another doctrine of Deuills noted in the scripture before alleadged 1 Tim. 4. 64 Their Dispensations in like manner to marry in the tymes among thē forbidden which are noted before 65 Lycenses from the same authoritie to marrie in places exempt 66 Dispensations also from thence for Boyes and ignoraunt fooles to haue benefices 67 Dispensations likewise for Nonresidents 68 For hauing Two Three Foure or more benifices euen tor quot that is to saye as manie as a man will haue and can gette 69 Tollerations 70 Patronages of and presentatiō to benefices with buying and selling of aduousons 71 Their institutions into benefices by the Prelates their Inductions Proxes c. 72 Their suspensations absolutions degradations depriuations c. 73 The Prelates Chauncellours and Commissaries courtes hauing power to excommunicate alone to absolue 74 Their penance in a white sheete 75 Their commutation of penance and absoluing one man for another 76 The Prelates confirmation or Bishoping of children to assure thē of Gods fauour by a signe of mans deuising 77 The standing at the Gospell 78 The putting off the cap and making a legge when the worde Iesus is read 79 The ring of peales at burials 80 Beadmen at buriah hyred Mourners in mourning apparell 81 The hanging mourning of churches heerses with black at burials 82 Their absoluinge the dead dying excommunicate before they can haue as they say christia buriall 83 The Idoll Temles 84 The Popish vestiments as Rochet Horned cap Tippet the Surplise in parishe Churches Cope in cathedral churches 85 The visitations of their Lord Bishops and Archdeacans 86 The Prelates Lordlie dominion reuenues and retinew 87 The Priestes maintetenance by Tithes Chrismes offrings c. 88 The othes ex officio in their ecclesiasticall courts making men sweare to accuse them selues 89 The Church Wardens othe to present to the Prelates all the offences faultes and defaults committed in their Parishes against thir Articles and Iniunctions 90 The Prelates rulinge of the Church by the Popes cursed canon lawe 91 Finally their imprisonning banishing such as renounce and witnes against these abominations a foresaid and the rest yet retayned among them Thus being constreyned we haue repeated and reckoned vp diuers of the Antichristian enormities still remayning practised in their church By which the Reader may better see and iudge both of the sleightnes of their answere in this place and of the blacke constitution of their church As also comparing these and the booke by him alleadged togeather it may hence appeare that our speach is proper and fitlie declaring their estate when we saide they ioyne Christ and Antichrist togeather And therfore his answere in this place to be friuolous and of no weight Next he commeth to the proofe of our Proposition which was confirmed by these scriptures 2 Cor. 6.14 15 16. with Ezek. 43.8 2 King 17 33 34 40 41. The Proposition which we proued by these Scriptures was this That which ioyneth Christ and Antichrist togither can not make a true Christian. Nowe let euen the aduersaries them selues iudge Whether these Scriptures doe not so euidentlie proue this Proposition as none can denie it but such as are Wilfully blinded and striue against the light of their owne cōsciences But what saith he of these scriptures here alleadged Forsooth That they are wholy mismatched And why so Because the ioyninge there forbidden is vnto such Idolatrie as can not stande by any meanes with Christian faith and breaketh most directlie the First commandement whereas their transgression is but against the Seconde and may stande with true faith as he supposeth in Cranmer c. First this answere of his concerneth our Assumption whereas those scriptures were the profe of the Proposition But to let this passe let vs consider the answere it selfe howe worthy and clerk like it is These scriptures he saith forbid ioyning to such Idolatrie as can not stande with Christian faith and breaketh most directlie the First commaundement 1. Jf this were so what then Doe they not therfore forbid ioyning to Antichristian idolatrie and that false worship which breaketh the second cōmaundement 2 Secondlie he can not denie but as we iudge of their way and estate so it is a transgression against the Second commaundement Nowe Samuell saith Rebellion is as the sinne of witchcraft and transgression is wickednes idolatry 1 Sam. 19. See then what advantage he getteth by his owne answere 3.
directlie of the breach of the Second Commaundment ioyning togeather in the worship of the true God their inueÌ„tions with Gods ordinances I say it is most manifest that he speaketh not of the breach of the Second Commandement onely but also of the first wherein men haue their inuentions also The Prophet sheweth vers 4. and 7. That God returned to his Temple againe whence he was departed for the abominable idolatries that had ben there committed before to shew that he would restore lerusalem and the Temple and worship of God againet He meaneth this literally of the returning of the Iewes after Babilons captiuitie and of the reedifying of the Temple and the appointing againe of Gods holy worship there Also spirituallie he may meane the erecting of the Christian Church wheÌ„ they should not fal to such impieties as the Iewes had done nowe in that time before for the which he had departed away from them Nowe if we aske what were those Idolatours in Ierusalem and in the Temple before Ezekiels time for the whiche the Lord forsooke them it is manifest in Ahas in Manasses and Amon and in the Kings after Iosiah That the Iewes idolatrie was verie Heathenish not onely against the Second but against the First Commandement also in ioyning the Heathen gods with the true God of Izraell in their Diuine seruice and worship Therefore this place of Ezekiell is as I say Not of the breach of the Second commandment onely simplie as our church corruptions are but ioinctlie touching the breach of the First also The verie same is that your Third scripture pag. 30. 2 Kings 17 33 34 40 41 of the Samaritans Idolatrie â— King 17. wherein because you are large I will deferr to explaine it till your Sixt Reason following where is a proper place for it 4 Lastlie in pag. 31. you agrauate the breach of the Second Commandment as being spirituall whordome c. But I would haue you to know Things may be mismatched too cruelly as well as too gentlie There is a sinne both wayes when things are not called by their proper and right names Is it true in some sence euery breach of the Second Commandement is spirituall whordome as euery wanton word euery light gesture and countenance euery immodest thought in a Woman is Adulterie yet who so shall angerlie and continuallie so call a woman whore harlot or baude that but thinketh or looketh or speaketh too vainly shall doe her great wronge and inâ—â—â—â—e the iust daunger of lawe Neither can shee nor ought shee in such case be diuorced as an Adulteresse ought And thus it appeareth 〈◊〉 still that you sinne again stabe Third Commaundment in misapplying of scriptures In the ende in pag. 31. where you saye To the proofe of your Assumption I answere neuer a worde which most of all required answere This I tell you that it is your fancie and not my meaning heere to answere to your Proposition First and then to your Assumption to say nothing Nay if you had not dreamed you might easilie haue perceyued that all my first wordes viz. where I say your speech here is vnproper c. are bent directly against your Assumption and the proofe thereof although at this time I expressed not those termes Secondly I shewe that your scriptures applyed to proue the Proposition are altogither vnfitt and intollerably abused if you meane them in that sence as your Assumption must be meant that is to say as they touch vs. This a verie childe might haue seene Maister Iohnson So that your marginall scoffe at my sound and schollerlike dealing doeth light on your self and bewrayeth eyther your deepe skill or your ouerflowing charitic As for the rest That I should iustifie our corruptions it is no part of my minde neither belongs it to our present cause so to doe Maister IOHNSONS II. Reason against the former Assumption with Maister IACOBS Replies to the same REASON II. THat which appointeth and ratifieth the worshipping of God in vaine That cannot make either true Christians or true Churches But the doctrine publikely professed and practized by law in England appointeth and ratifieth the worshiping of God in vaine Therefore c. Of the trueth of the Proposition none can doubt And the Assumption is thus proued That which appointeth and ratifieth the worshiping of God by the precepts of man That appoincteth and ratifieth the worshiping of God in vaine This Christ affirmeth out of Esay the Prophet Mat. 15.9 compared with Esay 29.13 But the doctrine publiquely professed practized by law in England appoincteth and ratifieth the worshipping of God by the precepts of man This appeareth by the 35. and 36. Article of the booke alleaged And by their booke of CoÌ„mon prayer their Fastes Feastes Holy dayes c which are executed by their Popish Courts and Officers All which are authorized by Law in England Therefore the doctrine publiquely professed and practized by lawe in England appointeth and ratifieth the worshiping of God in vaine And consequently cannot make a particuler man a true Christian nor the assemblies so gathered together true Churches H. JACOB his 1. Replie to the 2. Reason THis your Second Reason is This booke and others appoincteth and ratifieth the worshiping of God in vaine Ergo c. 1. This also hath answere in the third ExceptioÌ„ Pag 22. 2 Also noâ—e I pray you this Scripture Mat. 15. is verified of such as were theÌ„ of the true visible †Marke his open contrarietie with him self graunting this in Reas 6. Church with whom Christ and his Apostles both in Christes time and after his death did sometimes ioyne and comunicate This therefore maketh for vs and against you most notably F. IOHNSON his Defence of his 2. Reason OVr Second Reason is as you see now what proposition doth he deny Truely none at all What defence bringeth he of their booke of coÌ„mon prayers and the particulers therein Of their Prelacie other Ministerie receiued from them according to their booke and Pontificall Of their Canons and Excommunications c. Surely none What then doth he answere Forsooth he referred vs to his anuswer before in the last exception Whether also we referre the Reader with this note that there he shall finde nothing either for aunswer of anie proposition of this argument or for defence of their false worship Praelacie Ministerie and Church gouernement called into question Is not this then a worthie and Clerck like answere And haue not these men thinke you good proofe for their present estate and Church constitution Which thus leaue it altogeather without defence euen when it most needeth and as it were beg geth their help and succor if they could affoard it anie But now hauing no aunswer to any parte of our argument yet hee bids vs note that this Scripture Mat. 15. here alleaged is verified of such as were then of the true visible Church with whom Christ himself and his Apostles both in Christs time and after his death
Jewes are they not therefore to be separated from So in deed he would conclude in this place But then let him tell vs if Corah Dathan and Abiram the Apostate Jewes vnder Ieroboam the Corinthians Papistes c might not alleadge some particular exception wherein they were not like to those Iewes Act. 19. Might not therefore separatiō be made from these The scripture teacheth otherwise Numb 16.25 26. 2 Chrō 11.14 2 Cor. 6.17 Reu. 18.4 Secondly cōsider the place it selfe Act. 19.9 cōpare it with their estate practise in England see if there be not now as great and iust cause to separate from thē as frō the other Are not these now hardned against the trueth Let their writings against it their imprisonning banishing and killing for it giue euidence Doe they not disobey it Let their constitution and practize be witnesse Speake they not euill of the way of God before the multitude Let the Sermons of their Ministers in the pulpit the speaches of the Prelates in their Courtes beare record Therefore saith that “ Actes 19.9 Actes 2.40 Scripture Actes 19 they are to be departed and separated from Wherevnto also may be added in this case that which Peter saith Act. 2 Saue your selues from this froward generation Thidly were he obiecteth That Paule did not separate frō all the other Iewes as he did from these Acts 19. and sheweth it by Act. 13.14 and 16.3 21 23 24 26. 3.1 we answer that the Apostles had good and iust cause so to doe For first the Jewes * Rom. 9.4 Leuit. 20.22 24 26. Luk. 1.6.8 c. were the people of God separated from the world and set in the true waand order of God Secondly * Luke 24.47 Act. 1.8 and 13.46 Christ commaunded the Apostles when he sent them to preach his Gospell throughout the worlde that they should first preach it to the Iewes Thirdlie the Iewes ministerie ceremonies being the ordinances of God him selfe and giuen in writing by Moses the man of God “ Act. 15.21 and 21.30 21 22 23 24 25. Heb. 8.5 13. 9.1 c. were therefore nowe when they should cease to be buried with honor These things considered we see the Apostles had iust cause so to doe as they did in those places mentioned But what is this to the assemblies of England which neuer yet were separated from the world nor set in the way and order of Christ but stande in the * Reue. 13.16 17. and 18 2. 2 The. 2.3 4 8 confusion and defection of Antichrist whose ministerie also and worshippe were neuer the ordinances of God But * Reue. 17.2 4 and 18.3 and 9.3 c. taken out of the whores Cup of Babilon for which likewise God neuer gaue Comaundement to goe vnto them but to “ Reue. 18.4 with 17.9 1 Tim. 6 3 5. departe from them as being daughters of the greate Babilon that mother of whoredomes and abominations of the earth Againe euen from those Iewes notwithstanding the reasons aforesaid yet when they put from them the trueth and would not receyue it the Apostles departed and separated thē selues yea and shooke off the dust of their feete against them teaching others to doe so likewise Actes 13.46 51. and 18.6 28 25 26 27 28. and 20.40 and 19.8 9. To that of Maister Cranmer Ridley c is answered before And hetherto of their generall Assumption which was this That the whole doctrine as it is professed and publiquely practised by lawe in Englande is sufficient to make a particular man a true Christian Which wee haue shewed to be vntrue both by the Exceptions and Reasons aforesaid which still stande firme against them as is manifest by this our defence Touching the conclusion And now let the godly Reader trying all things by the word of trueth iudge whether we or they holde Paradoxes Touching that he saith of the reformed Churches he is deceyued if he thinke they allowe their present estate and church constitution Both their publique profession and practise witnesse the contrarie as wee haue declared at large in “ In the answers of Ma. Carthwrights reasons of Maist Hildersams letter c. other treatises which yet remayne vnanswered wherevnto we referre the Reader in this behalfe Where he sayth That we our selues heretofore haue acknowledged and professed it to wit their general Assumption aforesaid to be true he is also deceyued therein we haue alway * You maie speake it with shame enough testified the contrarie both by our profession and practise and were and are therefore cast into prison appoincted to exile and put to death besides many other iniuries grieuances inflicted vpon vs for this verie cause In deed we haue acknowledged and doe acknowledge that they professe diuers excellent truthes but that the whole doctrine as it is publiquelie professed and practized by law in England doeth make them in that estate true Christians neuer anie of vs that we know of did once acknowledge And therfore till he shew vs the contrarie we must needes thinke that he falsely burtheneth vs all and specially such of vs as he hath mentioned here in particular To that which he next addeth of the Martirs in Queene Maries dayes is answered already in the defence of our Seconde Exception and First Reason wherevnto may be added for more euidēce of the trueth the particular speaches testimonies of the holy Martirs them selues both then and in former tymes As of Maister Bradford who “ Actes monuments 2. vo in his conference with Peter Henth speaking of the dayes before Queene Marie saide The tyme was when the Pope was out of England but not all popery And moreouer “ In his firste speach with D. Harpsfielde Archdeacon That the scripture knoweth not any difference betweene Bishops and Ministers which men call Priestes And that the scripture speaking of Bishops can not be vnderstood of Bishops that minister not but lord it Also of Maister Hooper who held and “ Hooper on the eight commandment published that a Bishop should be Bishop but of one Citie and that till the Magistrates bring them to this poinct it shal be as possible to heare a Bishop wade godly and simply through the scripture in case of Religion as to driue a Cammell through the eye of a needle And agayne he sayth The primitiue Church had not such Bishops as be nowe a dayes And againe What blindnesse sayth he is there befell in the world that can not see this palpable yll that our Mother the holy Church had at the beginning such Bishops as did preach many godly Sermons in lesse time then our Bishops horses bee a brideling And John Bale an exile for the testimonie of Jesu writing vpon the Reuelation * Bale in his booke called The Image of both churches vpon Reu. 13.1 and 17.3 affirmeth moreouer That the names of Blasphemy written vpon the Beastes head Reuel 13. and
Prelacie and humane ceremonies men may be true Christians Then these witnesses are sufficient that your deniall hereof is a strange and vnusuall opinion that is a Paradox Finally to trie vs you propound a many of questions But I leaue all this superfluous stuffe to your selfe to be pondered First let vs cleare this present question and your Reasons here about Till then wee haue no leasure to meddle further The Lord of his mercy open your eyes to see your extremitie whereby you doe greatlie hinder not helpe the trueth which you would seeme to suffer for That you may indeed shewe your self as becometh a Christian Pastor not impossible to erre but no louer of error * Not a striueâ— for victorie but a loues of â—â—th 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not regarding your own but the praise of Christ in all things AMEN FINIS A SHORT TREATISE CONCERNING THE TRVENES OF A PASTORALL CALLING IN PASTORS MADE BY PRAELATES Against the Reasons and Obiections of Maister FRANCIS IOHNSON with others of the separation commonly called Brownistes 1599. An Argument shewing the trunes of a Pastorall calling in Pastors made by Prelates Taken from a familiar comparison gathered out of the confessions of Maister Iohnson and others of the separation aforesaid The Argument of Comparison is this AS a couple of ignorant people not contracting but meaning to marry and yet thinking that vnlesse a Priest marry them their marriage is nothing wheras indeed their publique accepting each of other maketh the marriage Now beeing married though “ As themselues hold vnlawfully by a Priest yet their marriage is true and lawfull notwithstanding EVen so a Christian people meaning to haue a sufficient man to their Pastor yet thinking that vnlesse a Prelate doe make him he is no Pastor at all neither can be theirs Notwithstanding he being made a Pastor though “ As they also doe acknowledge vnlawfully by the Prelate yet by their mutuall accepting and ioyning togeather hee is now verely a Pastor yea their Pastor true and lawfull H. IACOB Against the said Argument were brought Seauen Reasons by Maister Iohnson and others which doe hereafter follow togeather with Maister Iacobs Replies to the same REASON I. F. Iohns FIrst infidels idolaters prophane and godles persons may marry togeather with consent and choyse of each other notwithstanding their prophanenes and their marriadge is therein lawfull But it standeth not so with the choyse of Ministers in the Church For 1. prophane and godlesse persons such as these assemblies consist of 2. neuer rightly gathered togeather according to Gods holy ordinance 3. remayning in subiection and bondage to their false and Antichristian officers courts consisting of all sorts of people c. are not capable of chusing or ioyning vnto a true Minister in this estate as infidels may marry in the same estate There fore the comparison will not hould neither is such choice of a Minister by such people lawfull But these assemblies consist of such people c. Ergo c. H. Iacob THe strength of this Reason standeth in these last wordes But these assemblies consist of such people 1. prophane godles persons 2. neuer rightly gathered togither according Gods ordinance 3. remayning in subiection and bondage to their false and Antichristian officers courts Ergo c. These three accusations auaile nothing at all Accusa ∣ tion 1 The first Accusation is from our question for we speake of a Christian people but he of assemblies coÌ„sisting of prophane and godles persons If he say our assemblies all wholy are such That is false If he say some are Of them we speake not If he say in all euery one of our assemblies there are some yea many open prophane and godles persons 1. It is too bold a saying without knowledge to speak so of all 2. If it were true yet it were false to saye our assemblies consist of such or to thinke that whole companies of Christians by such commixtures are made vnholy prophane and godles which is contrary to these scriptures Mat. 23 2 3. Luke 2.21 22. 1.6 Act. 21.23 26. 1 Sam. 2.17 and cap. 1. verse 3.9 Reuel 2.20 21 and 3.1 4. 1 Cor. 3.3 Gal. 3.1 2. 4.11 16. and 5.4.9 Accusa ∣ tion 2 The second Accusation that our assemblies were neuer rightly gathered togeather at the first according to Gods ordinance I denie it especially touching many famous Congregations in the Land where the gospell was not vnknowen before the Queenes commaundiment came to vrge theÌ„ to receyue this doctrine And if the maner of receyuing it then in those hard and doubtfull times and hazardous beginnings were not so perfect nor so exact as should haue bene yet we may see by the example of “ 2 Chro. 30.17 18 19 20. Hezechias and * 2 Chro. 33.15 16 17. Manasses and †Zepha 1.4 5. and 3.1 Ier. 3.6 c. and 4.1 c. and 5.1 c. Iosias reformations That God imputeth it not to such godly and zealous restorers the pillers and ground of the trueth in those dayes If you say the vntaught people then suddenly receyuing the gospell by commandement not by hearing could not beleeue at the first though they professed and therefore at the firste were no true Christians nor Churches I answer 1. Though many receiued the Gospell for the commandements sake yet who can say That nowe they all generally wanted all knowledge and all faith The word then hauing bene in many places taught very many bookes scattered much conference daily consultations and disputations vsed and the blood of the Martirs hauing preached so loud and so lately before 2. It was not so sudden There was “ From Nouember the 17 till Midsomer following more then halfe a yeare for the people to heare learne and consider before the commandement came So that it can not be counted meere force and compulsioÌ„ that at the beginning of our Queenes reigne brought vs to the trueth 3 I would know They condemne not I hope all reformation commanded and compelled by the Magistrate 2 Chro. 34.32 33. and 33.16 and 15.13 Seeing therefore the assemblies thus openly aduisedly submitted to the proclaimed trueth who seeth not but they coÌ„fessed therein their former errors and professed their present faith and vndertooke a newe life from that which before they led though happely not so formallie nor so perfectly as were to haue bene wished Obiection But they receiued all togeather Papistes Atheistes ignorant men all dissolute liuers into one communion and fellowship Answer Indeed all who after this aduizement and notice takeÌ„ submitted to receyued this doctrine these were all receyued in And therefore no open professed Papistes Athistes nor other Heretikes As for ignorant men it is not possible but many will scape among the rest in so great and so generall reformation of a publike state And so questionles it was in Hezechias Manasses and Iosias reformation 2. Chron. which we noted