what has he in reserve I see what he alledges to justifie his confident Reproach of Vsurpation The Sacred Head of the Church on whom he cries out for an Usurper has shew'd by his reiterated Approbation of the Bishop of Meaux Book that he is content with that Submission and Obedience which the Holy Councils and Fathers have always â— aught the Faithful Pray with what propriety of Language or what Sense do's he call challenging of so much Usurpation What Scripture or Ancient Châ— rch or Part of the Christian World 〈◊〉 with him that 't is so not excepting the 〈◊〉 of England her self For there is more reason to take the Expositor's word who speaks in her 〈◊〉 than his for the Sense of the Church of England And from him I learn it sticks not at 〈◊〉 Point since she will be content to yield the Pope that Authority which the Ancient Councilâ— of the Primitive Church have acknowledged and 〈…〉 Fathers have always taught the Faithful to 〈…〉 And She I suppose would not yield to 〈◊〉 â—â—â—â—pation nor the â— xpositor for her But pray for what is this Harangue â— pon Uâ—â—â— pation and a Spiritual Kingdom 〈…〉 would know how People come to separate from the 〈◊〉 that is vary from the Common â— aith of 〈◊〉 And the Answerer tells him There is an Usâ— rper set up in the West Why suppose there be mâ— st Pâ—â—ple therefore needs believe otherwise than they 〈◊〉 before needs believe there is no Change 〈◊〉 â—â—â—stance no Purgatory no more than two Sacraments and the rest This Western Usurpation has no Iâ—fluence upon the East to make the Christians there change their Faith Why cannot the Reforâ— ation believe of these Points as they believe and as 〈◊〉 Christians besides themselves ever have and 〈◊〉 do So all Differences would be reduc'd to a singâ— e Point and that if we may believe the Exposâ— tâ— r either no Difference or easily reconcileable But tâ— go about to make us believe we must needs differ about a hundred things and can by no means 〈◊〉 it lawful to pray to a Saint or set up an Image as long as a certain Man takes more than câ— mes to â— is share shews the Answerer was either in a very â— leasant Humour or hard put to it for something 〈◊〉 say I have follow'd him 〈…〉 my way To return again 〈…〉 do Men separate from 〈…〉 Church says the Question We own no Separation from that but are disjoyn'd from the Roman says the Answerer Since that Church is nothing but the Roman and the rest united in the same Faith as a Man's Body is nothing but the several Members animated by the same Soul and no Part can be cut off from any of the Members no Part of a Finger for example from the Finger without being cut off from the whole Body This is in truth to say We are not separated we are only disjoyned or We are not separated but separated But to let this pass and not stray further after him into the many Questions which his Reply would start As Whether there be any Catholic besides the Roman Catholic Church Whether there can be Reason for being disjoyn'd from any Part of it Whether Disjoyning and Union be not â— lat Contradiction since Disjoyning signifies a different Faith and Union the same And the like in which whatever concern his We have I do not believe he has Authority from the Church of England to concern her All these things apart I observe the Answerer do's here as elsewhere appears himself and leaves his Answer behind For who they are that separate and what they own and from what part they profess to be dis-joyn'd is nothing to what Authority they have to separate from the whole who do The Kings Quâ— stion is a step to an end of Controversies For let People once know that they whoever they be are in a deplorable condition who live separated from the one Church of Christ upon Earth those among them who haâ— e any care of their Souls will bethink themselves and be glad to find â— er out and by piecing with her if they be broken off help to make that One the only Church on Earth and all Christians of a mind again And I wish the Answerer had gone that one step without staggering It had been a safe step for every body who is sure he do's not separate For it takes off no weight from any Reason by which he can shew that he do's not But I am afraid the youngest Man in Christendom shall never live to see one step made towards an end of differences in Religion at least if the Answerer were inclin'd that way he might me thinks without boggling have frankly own'd there is or there is not Authority to separate The last Paragraph asks when pretences are made of separating from the Church Who shall judge of them the whole Church or particular Men He answers That the whole force of this Paragraph dependâ— upon a Supposition which is taken for granted but will never be yielded by Them and they are sure can never be prov'd by the Church of Rome Let the Paragraph and its force depend on what it will 〈◊〉 not have answered a plain Question plainly and told us whether the Judgment of pretences do or do not belong to the Church and if not to whom elseâ— He pretends here that things are taken for granted 〈◊〉 one side which can never be prov'd and will 〈◊〉 be yielded by the other Let him tell us if he please before he proceed who shall judge of thus much Who pronounce whether those of the Châ— rch 〈◊〉 Rome can prove or no and before whom they 〈◊〉 when it comes to their turn produce their 〈◊〉 Who likewise whether the other side ougâ— t to yield 〈…〉 why he drives all to the Judgment of a particular Church unless he think all saâ— e there and the Judgment of that Church not to be submitted to any farther Judgment Which if he do he plainly thinks there is no Judge between Churches whatever may be betwixt Churches and particular Men. This indeed is a full Answer and which takes the Question quite away For it can no longer be ask'd who is the Judge if there be none at all But he do's not explain himself and 't is not for me to make him say more than he do's This I see that either this is his Answer or he gives none For there is nothing besides but what pretences they make and who made them and upon what account All which is nothing to who is the Iudge of them His Usurper is a strange importunate fellow to thrust in so often where he has nothing to do and I have no more to say to him At the last consideration I am as much surpriz'd as the Answerer For I thought no Interest should have been remembred in our Case but One what it avails a Man to gain the whole World and lose his Soul
Anger and Malice and Indignation For Disputes alas continue not because Truth is not visible but because Men will not submit their Sence to Grace but strain it in stead of ending Disputes to keep them up and render invisible the most visible things in the World In our present Case if His Majesty in stead of as visible had said the Church is more visible than Scripture He would have had a very great Man to take His part For which do's the Answerer think is the more visible of the two the thing which is seen or that by which it is seen And he knows who said I would not believe the Gospel unless the Authority of the Catholic Church had moved me And this is in truth the Case of every Body But evidently S. Augustin's Eyes as good as they were did not see the Scripture but by the Catholic that is the Roman Catholic Church For that the Answerer knows was the Catholic Church with which he communicated Then he gives a Reason why Disputing would cease viz. Because none who dare believe what they see can call Scriptures being in Print in question which by making nothing visible which can be called in question makes it not visible that Scripture is in Print For he knows the far greatest part of Mankind all Infidels and Mahumetans do actually call Scripture in question at this day he knows many Christians have questioned divers Parts of it heretofore and He himself still questions some as visibly in Print as any of the rest But to question whether the Book in Print be Scripture is manifestly to question whether Scripture be in Print And so in one breath he says it is in the next it is not visible that Scripture is in Print But we will not fall out about Matters which import not But goes he on what if the Church whose Authority it is said they must submit to will not allow them to believe what they see Why then that Church if he take Believing strictly agrees with all Mankind For as every body knows that Faith is of things not seen none can allow we properly believe 〈◊〉 we see But if he take the Word largely I know of no Church which allows not People to believe all they see I do indeed know of one which would be glad People would not believe they see what they see not nor by thier Senses can see An Eye may see the Colour of a thing and an Ear hear the Sound it makes c. but what this coloured or sounding thing is often needs more than the Senses to discover For the What of a thing is not the Object of any Sense How then says he can this be a sufficient Reason to persuade them to believe the Church because it is as visible as that the Scripture is in Print I am sorry that to know our Duty is not with him sufficient reason to do it We all know by the Evangelist that Christ left Commission to teach all Nations and by the Apostle that there are Pastors and Doctors appointed to build us up into the Vnity of Faith and prevent our being Circumvented by Errour And whatever he do's I take it to be my Duty to learn of those who are appointed and have Commission from Christ to teach when 't is visible who they are His following conceit of using and renouncing our Senses and indeed all hitherto said might have very well been spar'd For there is nothing yet which relates to our Business If he thinks Kings and their Writings are not above Sporting the Matter I am sure is The substance of what he says when he thinks to pass in earnest is 1. That a Part is not the Whole and the Roman he takes to be only a part of the Catholic Church 2. That Roman Catholic is an Expression found neither in the Creeds nor Office of Baptism even at present 3. That the Roman do's not her self believe she is the Catholic Church of the Creeds because she admits the validity of Baptism administred out of her Communion And lastly That there may be different Communions of Christians which may still continue parts of the Catholic Church for instance the Holy Bishops and Martyrs who he says were Excommunicated heretofore in Asia and Afric and the Eastern Christians at this Day For his first Riddle of a Part and Whole we may thank his Inadvertence The Paper do's not say that the Roman is the Catholic Church but that the Roman Catholic is the one Church of Christ. As Roman alone may signify the Diocess under the immediate Government of the Bishop of Rome which never did nor can more pretend to be the Catholic Church than the Church of Laodicea or Ephesus or any other particular Church the Paper by joyning Catholic to it shews it speaks of her and all joyn'd in Communion with her and all who believe as her Communion believes whether they be joyn'd in External Communion or no. For it is apparent by his Majesties talking all along of matters of Faith and no where of any thing else that he minded nothing but Faith and considered the Church with respect only to Faith Now I beseech him is this Roman Catholic ever the less visibly the one Church of Christ because a Part is not a Whole Of what will he make that Whole but of all the Parts And do's not Catholic signify all the Parts Or is it the less Catholic is any part taken out because the particular Roman is put in By the way because He often mentions the Roman Church without adding Catholic let me here to avoid Repetitions declare once for all That I shall understand him of the Roman Catholic wherever the Circumstances of the place determine not the Sense to the particular Church of Rome For he means not I suppose to talk of one Church while His Majesty talks of another Upon the Second Head he asks If those who made the Creeds for our direction had intended the Roman Catholic Church why was it not so expressed He might have answered himself For he knows as well as I that the Reason was because Language always changes with Times As there were no such Dreams of the Roman Church when the Creeds were made as now it had been a very superfluous and a very unaccountable piece of Care to have said Roman in a Word by it self which was already said by the Word Catholic and so by all the World understood Now there are who will have her some a corrupt Part of the Catholic Church some none at all who have a mind to let People know they take her for a Part and a sound and the principal Part and yet would save Words have light on a thrifty way of saying all in short by Roman-Catholic He says besides That this Limitation as he calls it of the Sense of Christ's Catholic Church to the Roman was never put to Persons to be Baptiz'd in any Age of the Church And That he finds
manifest for you I shall neither believe Catholics nor you Here I will stop For truly after so much said of this Subject and so long Experience of his sure Compass I grieve too much to dispute it farther when I observe that neither Reason nor Experience will do and fear there are who more desire the Ocean of Controversies should never be past than truly think it will be past this way But he is merry whatever I be For sure he is in jest when he talks of clear Evidence of Scripture against us and the Church of Romes notoriously deviating from it Under the Face he sets on this Matter there is nothing in the World but that he has the Art to make the Words of Scripture bear a Sense of his own or Friends invention no great matter to brag on Alas no not so much as for Learning For even the Unlearned he knows have Wit enough to pervert the Scriptures to their own Perdition And because the Church of Rome has no mind his Word should be past upon her for God's Word he runs away with it with a sure Compass and clear Evidence and the infallible Rule Words which as big as they sound signifie nothing but the Whimsies of possibly a single possibly an unlearned Man but yet who will needs be wiser than the Church To take upon us to understand the meaning of the Books of Divine Mysteries otherwise than by learning it of their Interpreters when no Trade the most trivial and easie is learnt without a Master and condemn what we understand not as we do when we will not embrace that Meaning is not to mince his Words rash Pride in the Opinion of S. Austin But to go on the Answerer knows very well that the meaning of his Majesties next Paragraph is not what his Question would put upon it and yet he must needs suppose it has another as if he did him Grace His Majesty asks no Grace of him but to put the Period entire It is not left to every Phantastical Mans Head to believe as he pleases but to the Church to whom Christ left the Power on Earth where I think the Compositor has left out a Comma to govern us in matters of Faith who made the Creeds for our direction and then to understand English But he will needs suppose the meaning is that those who reject the Authority of the Roman Catholic Church do leave every Man to believe according to his own Fancy Still he takes it not right Not but that rejecting that Authority infers setting up private Fancy But as inconsequent as it is there are who for all their rejecting that greater Authority are severe enough in requiring punctual obedience to their own little or no Authority and this too visibly for his Majesty to say they do not His words I conceive cannot fairly be suppos'd to extend farther than they were directed to a single Person in all likelihood who had the honour of his Confidence and whom he thought fit to put in mind That it is not left to every Phantastical Mans Head to believe as he pleases What has the Answerer to say to this is it true or is it not true Certainly says he those of the Church of England cannot be liable to any Imputation of this Nature And who can tell by this whether he say I or no or what kind of Answer that should be which says neither or what it serves for but to do the Church of England the same good Office which they do themselves who when Vice is ridicul'd on the Stage fall out with the Actors or Poet and will needs be the Fools of the Play But if he will be 〈◊〉 needless Apologies why must he needs make one fifty times worse than the attempt to make it All Heretics since the first Four General Councils may say the very same which he says for the Church of England and all before them the Equivalent Arius himself could say I receive the Apostles Creed and why should more be requir'd of me when that has hitherto been thought sufficient for all Christians Moreover I embrace all former Councils but think I have very great reason to complain that a Party in the Church the most corrupt and obnoxious assuming the Title of a General and Free Council takes upon it self to define new Doctrine which has neither universal Tradition divers heretofore and all the Orthodox that is my Abetters being on my side and so plainly no Scripture that because they could find none there they were fain to Coyn a new Word for their new Faith Macedonius Nestorius and Eutiches might have said as much of the Creeds and Councils before them and all Heretics since of the Creeds and Councils alledg'd by the Answerer and all complain of the Villanous Factions call'd General Councils He has plainly justify'd them all if it be a justification of a Doctrine that it is not found condemned in Councils held before it was broach'd For the Doctrine of none of them was condemn'd by any former Council nor indeed well could For as Councils seldom meddle with more than the exigence for which they were call'd requires it is not to be expected that more Faith should be found in their Creeds or Acts than was Controverted when they sat Wherefore unless one will fancy that every part of Christs Doctrine was denied so early or that no body since can deny some part which was not denied then it is as wild as unseasonable to plead in behalf of a Doctrine now that it was not condemn'd by the first Four General Councils or Three Creeds where there was no occasion to mention it And yet he thinks this an Apology fit to be made for the Church of England Truly I have long thought and there are of her Members who know my Thoughts that she has ill luck when she has much better things to say for her self to have such things as these said for her things which fit the greatest Enemies she has every jot as well as her self and which I therefore wonder not when I see alledg'd by them as Pleas for her For They have reason when They will not be brought to Her to bring Her to Them if they can But to see them produc'd by those who will be even unseasonably zealous for her is a Riddle with which it is not for me to meddle What he adds of holding nothing contrary to any universal Tradition of the Church from the Apostles Times and putting it upon that Issue for professing and offering as he expresses it is no great matter unless they do what they profess and offer is indeed to purpose and spoken like a Friend of the Church of England and a Lover of Peace And I hea◠tily wish and as earnestly as I can pray to Almighty God that this Trial may be brought speedily on which I can safely undertake shall neither be declin'd nor delay'd by the Church of Rome Then he passes on
to 〈◊〉 the Promise of Assistance was made should 〈◊〉 know what it means none in the Roman Catholâ—â— Church ever understood it would always preserve even those who by their Functions are Church-Guides from Errour any more than Sin save when they perform the Office of Church-Guides or expected more than that They should not Authoritatively declare that to be Christ's Doctrine which 〈◊〉 not or that not to be which is Since it is undeniably certain that our Church-Guides have never made any such Declaration in stead of profiting by their Pains we stand wondring what Protestants mean by repeating so often a Tale which has nothing in it Whoever errs among us Church-Guide or not Church-Guide errs on his own Head and not misguided now or at any time by the Church or her Gnides And so long it is as wildly unreasonable to impute those Errours to the Church or any but the erring Particulars as to bring Peter in guilty for the Faults of Paul 〈…〉 imperâ— ect as half-periods use to be but who read the whole will I believe understand it perfectly enough and if he had no mind to speak to this part of it he might have said so without imputing to it an Imperfection of his own making by severing it from its fellows As imperfect as it is I find by it that the Power of which his Majesty speaks was the Power of deciding Matters of Faith and so that when he talks of the Giâ— t of Tongues and the like he talks of what his Majesty did not It informs us too that as great Prerogatives as the Apostles had above other Men subsequent Councils took upon them to make Creeds as well as they Creeds which declare they will undoubtedly perish eternally who believe not entirely what they contain And so might have put us in mind that those who do as much in latter Ages have Precedents for what They do Matters which it seems he takes no delight to speak of As it had been something rugged to have said this Part for all it was left out deserv'd no consideration he smoothly passes to that which next do's And that is That the Church was the Iudge even of Scripâ—â— re it self many Years after the Apostles which Books were Canonical and which were not To which he replys That there is a Iudge of Law and a Iudge of Fact and that the Church Iudges of Fact 〈◊〉 Law Let him call it how he pleases if the Church Judges whether a Book be Canonical or no the Church is the Judge of that Matter and the King said true and 't is but so much erudition lost to Dispute by what name Her Judgment shall go He says besides that The Church of Rome hath no 〈◊〉 priviledge in this Matter but gives its Iudgment as other parts of the Christian World do 〈◊〉 if the Clause he answers spoke of any 〈◊〉 Church or Priviledge It says the Church that 〈◊〉 the whole made up of the Roman and the 〈◊〉 whose same Faith intitles them to the same Appâ— llâ—tion was the Judge of Scripture which Books were Canonical and which were not One may percâ—â— ve the Answerer thinks this is true and he mâ— ght 〈◊〉 said what he thought in two words But he thought fit to spin it out into a Section and 〈◊〉 the Matter so that one Member of his Division is not included in the Matter divided he alone knows why And if They had this Power then I desire to know says his Majesty next how They came to lose it And the Answerer desires to know who are meant by They and what is understood by This Power He had not the Paper by him sure when he askt these Questions For it is there as plain as words can make it that by They is meant the Church and by this Power the Power of deciding Matters of Faith exercised in making Creeds and judging of Canonical Booâ—â— Then he falls to his Dâ— stinctions again and tells us It is one thing for a part of the Church to give Testimony to a matter of Fact and another to assume the Power of making Books Canonical which were not so Pieces of Learning which he may if he please keep in reserve till he have to do with some body who talks of a Part of the Church or making Booâ—â— Canonical which were not By the way he means I suppose making Books not written by 〈◊〉 Iâ—spiration to be written by Divine Inspiration For if he mean making it appear and 〈…〉 and with obligation of 〈◊〉 that a Book of which it is doubted whether it were 〈◊〉 that truly Catholic and Apostolic Church 〈◊〉 which by separting from the Roman they keep 〈◊〉 their stricter Union and with which the Roman 〈◊〉 none For sure he do's not talk of a strict Union with nothing Let him tell us in what Countrâ—â—â— the Men live that People may go to them and learâ— of them what their Faith is and see whether it 〈◊〉 be all one with that of the Answerer and his 〈◊〉 and have something more than his word 〈…〉 stricter Union which he says is between 〈◊〉 What He and those who take his part do 〈◊〉 separating of themselves he tells us but being 〈◊〉 out by an Vsurping Faction in the Church and 〈◊〉 the Conditions of Communion impos'd by tâ— at Fâ—ction and requir'd by him who is own'd â— or Heaâ— of that Church are unjust and unreasonable and 〈◊〉 Authority â— e challenges a meer Vsurpation and tâ— at They are not to be condemn'd for such a Separation which was unavoidable Why unavoidable I beseecâ— him even supposing Usurpation and whatever 〈◊〉 would have Cannot they who are let â— t he 〈◊〉 so unjustly separated from the Communion avoiâ— being separated from the Faith of a Church if they please Is there any Church or Power on Earth which could hinder them from believing 〈◊〉 they were out of Communion what they did 〈◊〉 they were in it Which if 〈◊〉 had done Excommunication it self had not 〈◊〉 them from the Church of which these Papers speak 〈…〉 〈…〉 their voluntary Change of Faith And that Change indeed casts them unavoidably out because to be of the same Faith with a Church and of a 〈◊〉 Faith from her is inconsistent Other casting 〈◊〉 by which he means I suppose Excommunication there is none that I know 'T is true there is a general Excommunication of those who haâ— e chang'd their Faith into Heresie And some are particularly named but not a word of the Church of England or any relating to England but the Wickliâ— ists If any of his We be included in it 't is because they have voluntarily thrust themselves in by embracing the Anathematiz'd Heresies And yet he with his Flourishes and big Talk would have their casting off the Church pass for the Churches casting them out and their voluntary Act be call'd a being cast unavoidably out Cross Language in my Opinion and a very sorry Justification of Separation But
〈…〉 are not able to shew they have any 〈◊〉 It is enough to my purpose to have 〈◊〉 that his Majesty asks for a secure Motive and 〈…〉 no Answer 〈…〉 to see by his Objections against 〈…〉 what he takes for Fancy and 〈…〉 According to him They 〈…〉 and They Iudge who to be sure of a right 〈…〉 â—â—â—â—â—rences in Religion look out for a Fallible Iudge and hazard their Salvation on what may deceive them They Fancy who are for an Vnwritten Word They Iudge who think the Word of God is made by Writing Giving Honour to God by the Worship of Images is Fancy and Iudgment that giving Honour to God is not giving Honour to God For giving Honour any way is plainly giving Honour Mediators of Intercession besides the Mediator of Redemption are Fancy and so to think because only one could Redeem us no body besides can Pray for us is Iudgment The Doctrine of Concomitancy Fancy and true Christian Iudgment that the Body and Blood of Christ can nâ—â—â— e sepâ— rated and he die again A Substantial change in the Eâ—â—ments Fancy and right Iudgment that the Apostles did not understand what Christ said to them or not instruct the Church as they believ'd themselves So 't is with his last instance of Pargatory and all the rest Our Judgment is the Judgment of the Church from which there is no Appeal and it rests with the Answerer to shew how any other Judgment can be more than meer Fancâ—â— or 〈◊〉 to dispatch the next Paragraph under one Men are giddy or settled as they are guided or not 〈◊〉 by Reason and he should shew 〈◊〉 Reason besides can settle them 〈…〉 I desire to know therefore says His Majesty of every serious Considerer of these things whether the great Work of our Salvation ought to depend on such a sandy Foundation as this That is says the Answerer the Private Iudgment Can a Man expect there should be any Answer to this but that our Salvation ought or ought not depend on Sand or that the Foundation of Private Judgment is or is not Sandy And yet the Answerer makes a shift to spin out a Paragraph without one word of either I says he have seriously considered this matter and must declare That I â— ind no Christian Church built on a more sandy Foundation than that which pretends to be settled on a Rock as to part of her Faith If that Church build on Sand too she will I suppose hear on 't in due time At present he who considers so much might consider that he is not ask'd what he has considered or what he has found but whether any Church That if he will among the rest ought to build on Sand and whether Private Judgment be more than Sand Plain I or No if it please him first and then a l' autre Then he tells us That no understanding Man builds upon his own Iudgment He takes I suppose the Advice of his Friends in Compliment For after all he is to be his own Judge But is his Judgment and their Advice and what you will besides the Judgment of the Church without Appeal a Foundation to build upon There is the Knot which the Answerer should now untie But no Man of understanding can believe without his Judgment Sure enough nor no Man of not-understanding neither for his Belief is his Judgment But I am cloy'd with this Dish What Stand there is to set it upon is now the Question I appeal says the Answerer to any ingenuous Man whether he doth not as much build upon his own Iudgment who chuseth the Church as he that chuseth Scripture for his Rule Every ingenuous Man who reads these Papers will tell him that to build upon ones own Judgment is the same with following ones own Fancy being ones own Iudge and what other Terms a Master of English in all Senses used to express in variety of Phrases Iudging unreasonably Let the Answerer in stead of telling us what we all know as well as he That every one Judges who Judges tell 's what we do not know what Reason they have to chuse the Scripture not the Church for their Rule He that chuseth the Church hath many more Difficulties to conquer than the other hath How so For this sounds like a Paradox Those many more Difficulties to my thinking must be conquer'd before one can come at Scripture For unless we first chuse the Church for a Rule to find out Scripture by whom alone St. Austin has told us we know it there will be no assurance of Scripture for us to chuse And then in the choice of the Church there is but one thing to mind and that no difficulty neither where or which the Church is When that is settled a Man has no more to do but believe as he is taught and live as he believes Who thinks he has conquer'd the difficulties about the Letter of Scripture as which Books belong to the Canon which not which is a right Translation or Reading which wrong and whatever falls in his way has at least as many remaining as he has past and which if he find not insuperable he is I believe the more beholding to his Will For I know not how to have any Opinion of his Iudgment who only because such words will bear his Sense as they will it may be twenty others all abetted by Men of Name ventures his Soul upon 't that his is just the Sense meant by the Holy Ghost But let us hear his Reason For the Church can never be a Rule without the Scriptures but the Scriptures may without the Church that is without Faithful For a Congregation of them is a Church Will he persuade us there were no Faithful in the World before Moses No Christians before the New Testament which was written by Christians and no part of it till several Years after the Resurrection Do's not St. Irenaeus inform us that more than one Nation had the Doctrine of Christ and no Scriptures And will he make us believe that all these were Faithful without any Rule for their Faith and that the Church depends on Writing which if it should be lost in the World there would be an end of the Church Again of what and to whom should Scripture be a Rule if there were no Faith nor Faithful Paradoxes a part and the attempt to unriddle one by another let the Answerer tell us if he please whether our Salvation ought to stand upon Sand and to deal plainly whether he think that they who stand whether on the Church or Scripture do not build both on Sand For by saying nothing for Scripture and yet making it worse on the Churches side one would guess he is of Opinion there is no steadiness in either And it would be well to speak plain that People may leave off dealing where there is no Security and troubling themselves no longer with the uncertainties of Religion turn their Thoughts to more solid
bare word without Repetition Yet this notwithstanding he might have some inward grudgings that his Pupil thought him not so great a Doctor But it is not fit that a Matter of such importance should end in a bare Ay and No on either side for though the Parties have been so long dead yet there is a Witness still alive and such a one that all Loyal Subjects are bound to joyn with me in Prayers for the long continuance of His Life and even for His continuance in the True Religion as far as the English Liturgycan oblige them The Duchess thought her self bound to make his Royal Highness acquainted with every one of these several Conferences which she had either with Archbishop Sheldon or Bishop Blandford and that account was the very same in substance with what she communicates to her Friends in this present Paper as he is pleas'd to permit me to assure the World after having had the Honour to hear him solemnly affirm it which puts an end to the whole Matter of Dispute and this which follows is as Authentic The Day it pleased Almighty God to call her Highness to his Mercy some Relations of hers who are yet living were desirous that she should speak with the Bishop of Worcester which the Duchess did not absolutely refuse upon their importunity but requested the then Duke to stop the Bishop a little in the Anti-chamber and prepare him according to her directions before he enter'd the Bed-chamber accordingly His Highness having met the Bishop acquainted him That she was actually reconcil'd to the Catholic Church he then enquir'd Whether she were fully satisfied in all Points of the Doctrine which she had embrac'd and the Duke answer'd that she was entirely satisfied in the Doctrine of the Catholic Church at length the Bishop ask'd Whether she had already receiv'd the last Sacraments of the Church naming particularly those of the Blessed Eucharist and the Extreme Vnction and it being reply'd by the Duke that she had receiv'd them the Bishop answered That then he doubted not but that her Soul was in a very safe condition before they parted His Royal Highness told him That it was the desire of the Duchess he would not trouble her with any Matter of Dispute nor offer to Pray with her but if he had any Spiritual Counsel fitting for a Person in her condition in order to prepare her for her Death he might freely tender it upon this he was admitted to her Bed-chamber and made her a brief Exhortation after which his stay there was very short This being matter of Fact and of unquestionable Truth I hope the Answerer will acquiesce in it What he will think of his Bishop concerns not me but as a Protestant he has reason for his thanking God that the Cause of his Church do's not depend on the singular Opinion of one Bishop in it It appears plainly by this Relation that the Bishop of Worcester was ignorant almost to the last of her Conversion so that if that will serve our Authors turn he is acquitted from intending any such Act of Charity but that he contributed to it without any such intention is apparent Yet our Author will not so sit down he will condemn her Highness from her own words again and prove from her saying that she ow'd the Blessing of her Conversion to God Almighty that therefore the Bishop could have no hand in it What obligation has he to defend the Honour of his Church by a piece of Sophistry she ow'd it wholly to Almighty God for of our selves we can do nothing but as the Answerer confesses this excluded not her own endeavours God inspir'd her with a desire of being reconcil'd to his Church in answer to her frequent Prayers not by immediate illumination or shewing her the right belief miraculously but by affording her the ordinary means and conducting her by his good Spirit in the use of them If she had been immediately enlightn'd she needed not to have recourse to any of the Bishops but it pleas'd God who often works Good out of Evil that the Arguments they us'd or rather the Answers which they made produc'd a contrary effect and added more to the desire she had to be a Catholic in this sense therefore it may be said that the Bishops sent her to the Priest for an unresistable over-ruling Power made them contribute to her change by opposing it and the very hands which labour'd to hold her fast in the Protestant Perswasion carried her half Seas over and put her into other Hands which carried her the other half Truly they would have receiv'd hard measure if they had been found guilty on the Statute of Perswasion who far from endeavouring to make her change disswaded her from changing tho' the Protestant Flints happen'd to strike Catholic Fire So that I cannot but think there was an extraordinary Hand of Providence in her Case and of which she had reason to be extraordinary sensible But we must have I perceive a care of Praying and owning benefits from God for that or nothing made her pass for an Enthusiast with the Answerer She did nothing besides Praying which our Author do's not acknowledge it her duty to have done She read the History which was put into her Hands to confirm her in her first belief she examin'd the Scripture she conferr'd with her Divines and yet he can make an obstinate Woman of her for doing that very thing to which he wou'd advise her But says our Author All pretenders to Enthusiasm do as solemnly and wholly ascribe the Blessing to Almighty God and look on it as the effect of such Prayers as she made to him in France and Flanders They ascribe it indeed wholly to God in our Authors Sense but not in hers for she meant not immediate illumination by the word wholly as I have already prov'd they may look on their false light as the effect of their Prayers but she looks on her Conversion as the effect of hers after having used the means He had thought he says that the pretence to a private Spirit or Enthusiasm for he joyns them both afterwards had not been at this time allowed in the Church of Rome Somebody once thought otherwise or he had never diverted the young Gallants of the Town with his merry Book concerning the Fanaticism of the Church of Rome He next enquires what need she had of an infallible Church if she owed her Change so wholly to Almighty God Wholly is already explain'd to him and then his Argument is of no more force against her then against all Catholics who have once been Protestants which is a new Subject of Dispute and forrein to the Argugument in hand Her Conclusion as he tells us is That she would never have chang'd if she could have sav'd her Soul otherwise Whereupon he infers If this were true she had good reason for her change if it were not true as most certainly it was not she had none But
then for our comfort neither of them were true Church of England Men though they were both Bishops and one of them no less than Primate of All England And now for a relishing bit before we rise he has kept in store for us the four Points which about the midst of her Paper the Duchess told us she found so easie in the Scripture that she wondered she had been so long without finding them He will needs fall into Dispute with her about them tho he knows before hand that she will not Dispute with him This is a Kind of Petition to her that she will permit him to make that difficult which she found easie for every thing becomes hard by chopping Logic upon it I am sure enough that the Wall before me is White and that I can go to it but put me once upon unriddling Sophisms I shall not be satisfied of what colour the Wall is nor how 't is possible for me to stir from the place in which I am Alas if People would be as much in earnest as she was and read the Scriptures with the same disposition the same unprejudic'd sincerity in their Hearts and docility in their Understanding seeking to bend their Judgments to what they find not what they find to their Judgments more I believe would find things as easie as she did and give the Answerer more frequent occasion for his derision of a willing mind But not to dilate on that matter I presume he will not pretend by his Disputing to make any thing plainly appear against her If he can let him do it and end Controversie in a moment for every one can see plain things and all Christians must be concluded by the Scripture But he knows well enough there is no such thing to be perform'd A Mist may be raised and interposed through which the Eye shall not discern what otherwise it would if nothing but the due medium were betwixt and the Object before it And that is all the fruit of this sort of Disputation and all the Assistance for which the Answerer was so earnest Upon the whole his mortal quarrel to the Duchess is that she would not become an Experiment of the perfection to which the Art of Learned Obscurity is improv'd in this our Age. And the Honour he has done to the Church of England is that he has us'd her Name to countenance the Defamation of a Lady I suspected whether he would bring it when I saw that Honour pretended in the beginning of his Pamphlet If he thinks his Bishops have reflected a Scandal on his Church by their Discourses with the Duchess he ought to have proceeded a more reasonable way than to insinuate that she forg'd them without proving it If she had been living and he had subscrib'd his Name to so infamous a Libell he knows the English of a Scandalum Magnatum for an Innuendo is considered in that case and three indirect insinuations will go as far in Law towards the giving a downright Lie as three Foils will go towards a Fall in Wrastling To Conclude I leave it to the Judgment of the Impartial Reader what occasion our Answerer has had for his Song of Triumph at the end of his Scurrilous Sawcy Pamphlet I have treated him as one single Answerer tho' properly speaking his Name is Legion but tho the Body be possessed with many evil Spirits 't is but one of them who talks let him disguise his defeat by the ringing of his Bells 'T was an old Dutch Pollicy when the Duke had beaten them to make Bonâ— ires for that kept the Populace in Heart Our Author knows he has all the Common People on his side and they only read the Gazetts of their own Writers so that every thing which is called an Answer is with them a Confutation and the Turk and Pope are their Sworn Enemies ever since Robin Wisdom was Inspir'd to joyn 'em together in a Godly Ballad In the mean time the Spirit of Meekness and Humble Charity would become our Author better than his boasts for this imaginary Victory or his Reflections upon Gods Anointed but it is the less to be admir'd that he is such a Stranger to that Spirit because among all the Volumes of Divinity written by the Protestants there is not one Original Treatise at least that I have seen or heard of which has handled distinctly and by it self that Christian Vertue of Humility FINIS ERRATA PAge 25. l. 24. for not the read not of the. p. 39. l. 7. it will be r. it be p. 79. l. 1. bare r. bear p. 81. l. 17. for vibsily r. visibly p. 98. l. 22. that r. his p. 111. l. 11 has r. was p. 113. l. 22. Conversion to r. Conversion wholly to A Catalogue of Books Printed for Henry Hills Printer to the King 's most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel 1686. And are to be Sold next door to his House in Black-fryers at Richard Cheese's REflections upon the Answer to the Papist Mis-represented c. Quarto Price stitch'd 2d Papists Protesting against Protestant-Popery Quarto Price stitch'd 4d 29. Copies of Two Papers Written by the late King Charles II. Together with a Paper Written by the late Dutchess of York Folio Price 2d The Spirit of Christianity Twelves Price bound 9d in Quires 7d Six Sermons Preach'd before their Majesties in English by the Reverend Father Dom. Ph. Ellis Monk of the Holy Order of St. Benedict and of the English Congregation Chapin Ordinary to His Majesty Quarto Price stitch'd 2s 3d. 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With a Letter from the said Bishop Quarto Price stitch'd 1s 2d Two Sermons Preach'd before the King and Queen By the Reverend Father Iohn Persall of the Society of Iesus Professor of Divinity Quarto Price stich'd 9d The Life of St. Ignatius Founder of the Society of Iesus In Octavo Price in Quires 1s 8d bound 2s 4d An Amicable Accommodation of the Difference between the Representer and the Answerer in Return to the Last Reply against the Papist Protesting against Protestant Popery Quarto Price stitch'd 4d 2q 〈…〉 Authoritas Aug. Cont. Epist. Fund c. v. 〈…〉 2 Per. 1. â— 0 1 Cor. 11. 16. Quoniam nihil proficiat congressio Scripturarum nisi plane ut aut stomachi quis inâ— at eversionem aut cerebri Non ad Scripturas provocandum est nec in his constituendum certamen in quibus aut nulla aut incerta victoria est aut parum â— erta Tertull. de Praescrip c. 17 19. Si dixeris noli Catholicis credere non recte facies per Evangelium me cogere ad Manichaei sidem quia ipsi Evangelio Catholicis praedicantibus credidi Quod si forte in Evangelio aliquid apertissimum de Manichaei Apostolatu invenire poteris infirmabis mihi Catholicorum authoritatem qui jubent ut tibi non credam Qua infirmata jam nec Evangelio credere potero quia per eos illi credideram ita nihil apud me valebit quiâ— quid inde protuleris Si inde aliquid manifestum pro Manâ— chaeo legeris nec illis credam nec tibi Aug. cont Ep. Fund â— 5. 2 Pet. 3. 16 Si unaquaeâ—â— c disciplina quamquam 〈◊〉 lis 〈…〉 percipi possit doctorem aut magiâ— trum requirit quid temerariae superbâ— ae plenius quam â—â—â—â—norum Sacramentorum libros ab Interpretibus suis nolle cognoscere incognitos veâ—â— e damnare Aug. de Util. Cred. c. 17. tom 6. Neque 〈◊〉 parvi momenâ— est quâ— d cum c. Hoc per universam Cathoâ—â—â—◠〈…〉 â—â—â—funditâ— r observari placuit quod tenemus August conâ— r. Creâ—â— on l. 1. c 32. Quam consuetudinem credo ex 〈◊〉 traditione venientem sicut multa quae non inveniuntur in litteris eorum neque in 〈◊〉 liis posteriorum tamen quia per universam custodâ— untur Ecclesiam non 〈…〉 tradita commendata creduntur Aug. de Bap. conâ— Donatist l. 2. c. 7. Si jam 〈◊〉 tibi jactatus videris finemque hujusmodi laboribus vis imponere sequere viam Cathoâ—â—â—â— disciplinae quae ab ipso Christo per Apostolos ad nos usque manavit abhinâ— ad 〈◊〉 manatura est Aug. de Util. Cred. c. 8. 〈…〉 Quid autem si neque Apostoli quidem Scripturas reliquissent nobis nonne opportebat ordinem sequi Traditionis quam tradiderunt iis quibus committebant Ecclesias cui ordinationi aâ— lentiunt multae Gentes Barbarorum eorum qui in Christum credunt sine charta atramento scriptam habentes per spiritum in cordibus suns salutem veterem Traditionem diligenter custodientes 〈◊〉 advers Haereâ— Lib. 3. col * Sir Her Wootton Herbert Hen 8. pag. 402.