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book_n christian_a church_n scripture_n 2,372 5 5.7375 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A28837 A conference with Mr. Claude, minister of Charenton, concerning the authority of the church by James Benigne Bossuet, Bishop of Meaux ... ; faithfully done into English out of the French original.; Conference avec M. Claude, ministre de Charenton, sur la matière de l'eglise. English Bossuet, Jacques Bénigne, 1627-1704.; Claude, Jean, 1619-1687. 1687 (1687) Wing B3780; ESTC R23256 107,935 138

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as_o open_v the_o book_n he_o form_v not_o then_o his_o faith_n by_o the_o read_n of_o the_o scripture_n this_o read_n find_v his_o faith_n already_o form_v this_o read_n do_v but_o confirm_v to_o a_o christian_a all_o he_o already_o believe_v and_o all_o he_o have_v already_o find_v in_o the_o church_n belief_n he_o believe_v then_o before_o all_o thing_n that_o the_o church_n deceive_v he_o not_o and_o by_o this_o he_o begin_v to_o make_v the_o act_n of_o a_o christian_n child_n be_v not_o instruct_v in_o any_o other_o manner_n when_o they_o hear_v their_o parent_n it_o be_v the_o church_n they_o hear_v for_o our_o parent_n be_v our_o teacher_n only_o as_o they_o be_v child_n of_o the_o church_n it_o be_v for_o this_o reason_n the_o holy_a ghost_n send_v we_o to_o they_o ask_v thy_o father_n and_o he_o will_v show_v thou_o thy_o elder_n and_o they_o will_v tell_v thou_o st._n basil_n 29._o ep._n 29._o so_o great_a a_o divine_a justify_v himself_o and_o at_o the_o same_o time_n confound_v the_o heretic_n by_o allege_v to_o they_o the_o faith_n of_o his_o mother_n and_o of_o his_o grandmother_n st._n macrina_n and_o he_o herein_o imitate_v st._n paul_n who_o praise_v timothy_n for_o have_v a_o unfeigned_a faith_n 5._o 2_o tim._n 1._o 5._o which_o dwell_v first_o in_o his_o grandmother_n lois_fw-fr and_o his_o mother_n eunice_n the_o meaning_n be_v that_o true_a doctrine_n ought_v always_o to_o descend_v from_o hand_n to_o hand_n and_o that_o there_o shall_v always_o be_v a_o true_a church_n to_o which_o none_o can_v ever_o show_v her_o beginning_n nor_o find_v in_o her_o state_n those_o mark_n of_o interruption_n and_o novelty_n which_o all_o other_o sect_n bear_v on_o their_o front_n christian_n parent_n join_v to_o this_o church_n join_v their_o child_n to_o she_o and_o put_v they_o at_o the_o foot_n of_o her_o minister_n to_o be_v there_o instruct_v it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v imagine_v that_o child_n in_o who_o reason_n begin_v to_o appear_v because_o they_o know_v not_o how_o to_o rank_v their_o discourse_n be_v incapable_a of_o resent_v the_o impression_n of_o truth_n they_o be_v see_v learn_v to_o speak_v in_o a_o age_n yet_o more_o infirm_a in_o what_o manner_n they_o learn_v by_o what_o they_o make_v the_o distinction_n between_o the_o noun_n and_o the_o verb_n the_o substantive_n and_o the_o adjective_n neither_o themselves_o know_v nor_o can_v we_o who_o have_v learn_v by_o this_o method_n well_o explicate_v so_o deep_a and_o hide_a it_o be_v we_o learn_v almost_o in_o the_o same_o manner_n the_o church_n language_n a_o secret_a light_n guide_v we_o in_o both_o these_o state_n in_o the_o one_o it_o be_v reason_n in_o the_o other_o faith_n reason_n discover_v itself_o by_o little_a and_o little_a and_o so_o do_v faith_n infuse_v by_o baptism_n we_o must_v have_v motive_n to_o fix_v we_o to_o the_o church_n authority_n god_n know_v they_o and_o we_o know_v they_o in_o general_a in_o what_o manner_n he_o rank_n they_o how_o he_o make_v these_o innocent_a soul_n perceive_v they_o be_v the_o secret_a of_o his_o holy_a spirit_n however_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o this_o be_v do_v and_o by_o this_o he_o begin_v as_o this_o be_v the_o first_o christian_a act_n we_o make_v and_o as_o on_o this_o foundation_n all_o be_v build_v so_o it_o subsist_v for_o ever_o the_o time_n will_v come_v when_o we_o shall_v know_v more_o distinct_o why_o we_o believe_v and_o the_o church_n authority_n will_v from_o day_n to_o day_n become_v strong_a in_o our_o mind_n the_o scripture_n itself_o will_v fortify_v the_o chain_n which_o bound_v we_o to_o she_o but_o we_o must_v always_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o original_a that_o be_v to_o believe_v on_o the_o church_n authority_n what_o age_n soever_o we_o be_v at_o it_o be_v by_o this_o we_o begin_v to_o believe_v the_o scripture_n we_o continue_v also_o on_o the_o same_o foundation_n and_o st._n augustin_n be_v already_o perfect_a in_o the_o ecclesiastical_a science_n 5._o cont._n ep._n fudam_n 5._o when_o he_o say_v he_o will_v not_o believe_v the_o gospel_n if_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n do_v not_o oblige_v he_o to_o it_o i_o can_v be_v it_o in_o dispute_n show_v the_o same_o opinion_n in_o the_o other_o father_n we_o must_v always_o re-ascend_a to_o the_o first_o principle_n and_o this_o be_v the_o first_o principle_n that_o fix_v we_o to_o the_o church_n let_v they_o not_o reproach_n to_o we_o this_o vicious_a circle_n the_o church_n make_v we_o believe_v the_o scripture_n the_o scripture_n make_v we_o believe_v the_o church_n this_o on_o both_o side_n be_v true_a in_o different_a respect_n the_o church_n and_o the_o scripture_n be_v so_o make_v for_o one_o another_o and_o do_v so_o perfect_o suit_n with_o one_o another_o that_o they_o support_v each_o other_o like_a stone_n in_o a_o arch_n which_o mutual_o keep_v up_o the_o building_n all_o nature_n be_v full_a of_o such_o example_n i_o bear_v the_o staff_n on_o which_o i_o lean_v the_o flesh_n bind_v and_o cover_v the_o bone_n which_o sustain_v it_o and_o all_o thing_n in_o the_o whole_a universe_n mutual_o aid_v one_o another_o so_o it_o be_v with_o the_o church_n and_o the_o scripture_n there_o be_v but_o one_o church_n such_o as_o jesus_n christ_n found_v to_o which_o such_o a_o scripture_n as_o we_o have_v can_v be_v address_v that_o be_v such_o a_o one_o as_o dare_v promise_v the_o church_n in_o which_o this_o scripture_n be_v make_v a_o eternal_a continuance_n if_o any_o one_o receive_v the_o scripture_n by_o the_o scripture_n i_o will_v prove_v to_o he_o the_o church_n if_o he_o acknowledge_v the_o church_n by_o the_o church_n i_o will_v prove_v to_o he_o the_o scripture_n but_o since_o we_o must_v begin_v on_o one_o side_n i_o have_v clear_o enough_o show_v by_o mr._n claude_n confession_n that_o if_o we_o begin_v not_o by_o the_o church_n the_o divinity_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o the_o faith_n we_o ought_v to_o have_v in_o it_o be_v in_o danger_n wherefore_o the_o holy_a ghost_n begin_v our_o instruction_n by_o fix_v we_o to_o the_o church_n i_o believe_v the_o catholic_n church_n among_o our_o adversary_n one_o must_v examine_v before_o he_o believe_v and_o he_o must_v before_o all_o thing_n examine_v the_o scripture_n by_o which_o he_o examine_v all_o the_o rest_n it_o be_v not_o enough_o to_o have_v read_v some_o particular_a verse_n some_o chapter_n some_o book_n till_o such_o time_n as_o one_o have_v read_v all_o confer_v all_o examine_v all_o faith_n continue_v in_o suspense_n since_o it_o be_v by_o this_o examen_fw-la that_o it_o be_v form_v among_o the_o true_a christian_n one_o believe_v at_o first_o thy_o faith_n have_v save_v thou_o say_v jesus_n christ_n thy_o faith_n 14._o tertul._n de_fw-fr praescrip_n 14._o observe_v tertullian_n in_o that_o divine_a work_n of_o prescription_n and_o not_o thy_o be_v verse_v in_o the_o scripture_n there_o be_v no_o need_n of_o pass_v through_o opinion_n through_o doubt_n through_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o human_a faith_n i_o never_o change_v say_v st._n basil_n what_o i_o believe_v from_o my_o infancy_n 79._o ep._n 79._o have_v only_o be_v strengthen_v in_o my_o follow_a year_n without_o pass_v from_o one_o opinion_n to_o another_o i_o have_v only_o perfect_v what_o be_v at_o first_o give_v i_o by_o my_o parent_n as_o a_o grain_n which_o be_v sow_o of_o little_a that_o it_o be_v become_v big_a but_o continue_v always_o the_o same_o in_o itself_o and_o without_o change_v its_o nature_n take_v only_o increase_v so_o be_v may_v faith_n increase_v and_o this_o be_v not_o a_o change_n in_o which_o one_o pass_n from_o worse_a to_o better_o but_o a_o accomplishment_n of_o a_o work_n already_o begin_v and_o the_o confirmation_n of_o faith_n by_o knowledge_n in_o this_o manner_n we_o pass_v not_o as_o among_o our_o reform_a from_o a_o state_n of_o doubt_n to_o a_o state_n of_o certainty_n or_o as_o mr._n claude_n love_v better_a to_o speak_v from_o a_o human_a faith_n to_o a_o divine_a divine_a faith_n be_v declare_v at_o first_o by_o the_o church_n first_o instruction_n and_o this_o can_v never_o be_v do_v not_o her_o infallible_a authority_n prevent_v all_o our_o doubt_n and_o all_o examination_n it_o be_v thus_o 4._o cont._n ep_v man._n 4._o as_o say_v st._n augustin_n it_o be_v thus_o i_o say_v that_o those_o believe_v who_o not_o be_v able_a to_o arrive_v at_o understanding_n secure_v their_o salvation_n by_o the_o simplicity_n of_o their_o faith_n if_o we_o must_v always_o examine_v before_o we_o believe_v we_o must_v begin_v by_o examine_v whether_o there_o be_v a_o god_n and_o harken_v for_o some_o time_n with_o a_o kind_n of_o suspension_n of_o mind_n to_o the_o argument_n of_o the_o wicked_a that_o be_v we_o must_v pass_v to_o the_o belief_n
submission_n of_o a_o divine_a faith_n and_o well_o if_o it_o be_v so_o it_o remain_v only_o to_o choose_v between_o these_o church_n but_o then_o the_o calvinistical_a church_n be_v go_v at_o the_o very_a first_o brush_n she_o degrade_v herself_o as_o i_o may_v say_v from_o the_o title_n of_o the_o church_n since_o she_o find_v not_o in_o herself_o authority_n enough_o to_o cause_v all_o those_o who_o she_o begin_v to_o instruct_v to_o make_v a_o act_n of_o a_o christian_a and_o a_o act_n of_o divine_a faith_n not_o even_o on_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o scripture_n whence_o it_o be_v suppose_v she_o ought_v to_o learn_v all_o the_o rest_n but_o mr._n claude_n ask_v how_o one_o shall_v choose_v between_o these_o church_n shall_v it_o be_v by_o enthusiasm_n it_o will_v be_v by_o enthusiasm_n as_o i_o have_v observe_v in_o the_o conference_n if_o the_o true_a church_n have_v not_o her_o particular_a character_n that_o distinguish_v she_o from_o other_o she_o have_v without_o go_v any_o far_a or_o search_v any_o deep_a her_o succession_n in_o which_o none_o can_v show_v she_o by_o any_o positive_a fact_n interruption_n innovation_n or_o change_n this_o be_v what_o no_o false_a church_n can_v so_o clear_o glory_n of_o as_o the_o true_a because_o by_o glory_v of_o it_o she_o will_v visible_o condemn_v herself_o there_o will_v be_v then_o always_o in_o the_o instruction_n which_o the_o true_a church_n shall_v give_v her_o child_n concern_v her_o condition_n something_o that_o no_o other_o sect_n can_v or_o dare_v say_v it_o be_v by_o this_o we_o will_v convince_v if_o it_o be_v in_o question_n the_o greek_n the_o ethiopian_n the_o armenian_n and_o other_o sect_n which_o seem_v in_o this_o respect_n more_o deceive_v because_o of_o the_o appearance_n of_o succession_n that_o they_o show_v which_o also_o make_v they_o way_n to_o attribute_v to_o themselves_o with_o a_o little_a more_o ground_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n but_o as_o for_o the_o calvinian_a church_n there_o be_v a_o end_n of_o she_o because_o she_o have_v not_o so_o much_o as_o a_o apparent_a and_o tolerable_a succession_n and_o that_o she_o dare_v not_o as_o we_o have_v now_o show_v by_o mr._n claude_n acknowledgement_n attribute_n to_o herself_o this_o authority_n without_o which_o there_o can_v neither_o be_v any_o certain_a instruction_n nor_o any_o assure_a foundation_n of_o divine_a faith_n nor_o in_o fine_a any_o church_n it_o will_v be_v then_o in_o vain_a for_o we_o to_o lose_v time_n here_o in_o dispute_v with_o the_o egyptian_n and_o greek_n the_o succession_n they_o brag_v of_o it_o will_v be_v no_o great_a labour_n to_o show_v they_o the_o exact_a moment_n of_o their_o innovation_n the_o pretend_a reform_a know_v it_o as_o well_o as_o we_o and_o can_v themselves_o show_v it_o they_o when_o they_o please_v so_o when_o they_o pross_v we_o to_o do_v it_o it_o be_v not_o that_o they_o think_v to_o engage_v we_o in_o a_o thing_n impossible_a or_o even_o obscure_a and_o difficult_a but_o it_o be_v in_o a_o word_n that_o in_o so_o bad_a a_o cause_n there_o be_v always_o something_o get_v by_o digress_v and_o make_v the_o consequence_n of_o a_o argument_n be_v lose_v thus_o i_o have_v reason_n to_o tell_v mademoiselle_n de_fw-fr duras_n in_o one_o of_o the_o instruction_n of_o this_o book_n that_o if_o any_o one_o disgu_v with_o the_o calvinistical_a church_n be_v tempt_v to_o embrace_v the_o religion_n of_o the_o cophti_n or_o of_o the_o greek_n it_o will_v be_v then_o time_n to_o show_v they_o in_o these_o church_n that_o inevitable_a moment_n of_o their_o novelty_n which_o they_o can_v no_o more_o de●y_n than_o can_v the_o other_o sect_n but_o since_o the_o calvinist_n with_o who_o we_o have_v to_o do_v agree_v it_o and_o that_o none_o think_v of_o leave_v they_o but_o to_o come_v to_o we_o when_o we_o oblige_v any_o one_o to_o leave_v they_o by_o show_v from_o their_o minister_n own_o confession_n the_o enormous_a absurdity_n of_o their_o doctrine_n the_o work_n be_v perfect_v and_o all_o the_o rest_n on_o that_o occasion_n will_v be_v to_o no_o purpose_n and_o to_o the_o end_n the_o method_n of_o the_o conference_n and_o the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n which_o be_v there_o treat_v may_v be_v thorough_o understand_v it_o do_v not_o aim_v direct_o to_o establish_v the_o roman_a church_n but_o only_o to_o show_v that_o there_o be_v somewhere_o or_o other_o a_o true_a church_n to_o which_o we_o must_v submit_v without_o examine_v and_o beside_o that_o this_o can_v be_v the_o calvinistical_a church_n since_o she_o will_v herself_o have_v one_o examine_v after_o she_o which_o make_v she_o acknowledge_v the_o absurdity_n we_o have_v remark_v and_o by_o this_o acknowledgement_n lose_v the_o title_n of_o the_o church_n this_o do_v there_o be_v no_o more_o question_n to_o preach_v the_o roman_a church_n that_o be_v that_o body_n of_o the_o church_n of_o which_o rome_n be_v the_o head_n since_o to_o he_o that_o will_v choose_v between_o two_o church_n the_o exclude_v of_o the_o one_o be_v the_o establish_n of_o the_o other_o without_o any_o need_n of_o dispute_v far_o for_o this_o purpose_n beside_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n so_o evident_o bear_v these_o character_n of_o the_o true_a church_n that_o there_o be_v scarce_o any_o man_n of_o good_a sense_n even_o among_o our_o reform_a but_o agree_v that_o if_o there_o be_v in_o the_o world_n a_o authority_n to_o which_o we_o must_v submit_v it_o be_v that_o of_o this_o church_n but_o however_o when_o one_o see_v the_o absurdity_n one_o be_v force_v to_o own_o in_o calvinism_n for_o want_v of_o have_v acknowledge_v in_o the_o church_n authority_n the_o true_a principle_n of_o christian_a instruction_n one_o soon_o retire_v from_o a_o church_n who_o method_n and_o instruction_n be_v so_o manifest_o defective_a and_o one_o be_v sufficient_o solicit_v by_o the_o remain_v of_o christianity_n which_o one_o feel_v within_o himself_o to_o return_v to_o the_o church_n from_o whence_o he_o depart_v the_o six_o reflection_n on_o mr._n claude_n reduce_v as_o much_o as_o he_o can_v this_o dispute_n to_o the_o instruction_n of_o child_n we_o see_v in_o mr._n claude_n discourse_n that_o press_v by_o this_o want_n of_o authority_n which_o ruin_v all_o instruction_n in_o his_o church_n he_o affect_v to_o reduce_v our_o dispute_n to_o the_o instruction_n of_o child_n and_o think_v he_o have_v find_v a_o advantage_n by_o make_v this_o instruction_n depend_v on_o parent_n and_o nurse_n who_o be_v better_a know_v at_o that_o age_n than_o the_o church_n and_o her_o minister_n by_o this_o mean_n he_o think_v to_o conceal_v from_o we_o the_o church_n authority_n in_o the_o first_o exercise_n and_o first_o act_n of_o faith_n we_o make_v before_o we_o have_v read_v the_o holy_a scripture_n but_o he_o ought_v first_o to_o consider_v that_o the_o argument_n i_o make_v he_o regard_v not_o only_a child_n child_n be_v not_o the_o only_a christian_n that_o have_v not_o read_v the_o scripture_n mr._n claude_n be_v not_o ignorant_a that_o there_o be_v in_o the_o begin_n of_o christianity_n not_o only_o particular_a man_n but_o also_o whole_a nation_n which_o according_a to_o the_o report_n of_o st._n irenaeus_n have_v not_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o without_o read_v it_o cease_v not_o to_o be_v true_a christian_n the_o debate_n then_o between_o we_o be_v in_o general_a concern_v all_o those_o that_o have_v not_o read_v the_o holy_a scripture_n of_o what_o age_n soever_o they_o may_v be_v and_o what_o way_n soever_o they_o may_v have_v happen_v not_o to_o have_v read_v it_o for_o it_o be_v of_o those_o and_o if_o they_o will_v it_o be_v of_o those_o who_o st._n irenaeus_n mention_n or_o of_o their_o like_a that_o i_o inquire_v concern_v the_o faith_n with_o which_o they_o believe_v the_o scripture_n and_o prepare_v to_o read_v it_o as_o be_v inspire_v by_o god._n if_o they_o have_v but_o a_o human_a faith_n as_o mr._n claude_n say_v they_o be_v not_o christian_n and_o if_o they_o have_v a_o divine_a faith_n as_o must_v be_v acknowledge_v unless_o we_o will_v fall_v into_o a_o horrible_a absurdity_n it_o be_v then_o true_a that_o divine_a faith_n without_o one_o have_v read_v the_o scripture_n immediate_o follow_v the_o church_n doctrine_n and_o establish_v her_o infallible_a authority_n it_o be_v on_o this_o authority_n that_o every_o christian_a who_o take_v the_o scripture_n in_o hand_n begin_v by_o believe_v with_o a_o firm_a faith_n that_o all_o he_o be_v go_v to_o read_v be_v divine_a and_o he_o stay_v not_o his_o believe_v the_o truth_n of_o this_o scripture_n till_o he_o have_v read_v it_o all_o he_o believe_v the_o first_o chapter_n before_o he_o have_v read_v the_o second_o and_o he_o believe_v all_o before_o he_o have_v read_v the_o first_o letter_n or_o so_o much_o