remedy foūde for so great cōtronersies as dayly ryse of benefyces Of the excommunicatyō censure of the Churche and such lyke With the which hard weighty questions the Bishops occupyed had so litle leasure the they could scarse findeany tyme to employ in the hearyng of vs. What meanes they sought in the meane time to preiudice our matter it is not to the purpose here to tel I wil shew onely this one Which some thought in maner the prologe or preamble of the conference that should ensue that hereby mē may know what credite they ought to geue to such rumors as our aduersariesfalsely spred vpon vs. For immediatly vpon the departure of Theodore Beza a rumoure ranne that he being conuycted by the Cardinall of Lorayne was turned to the Catholikes as they cal themselues and agreed with them as coucerning the Sacrament as they terme it of the aulter Of thys tale what was the couloure and occasion I wyll shortly shew Whē Beza the day after hys comyng came to the Queenes presence in the palayce of the kyng of Nauarre by whom he was sent for there beeyng presēt the Prince of Conde the Cardinal of Borbon diuers other the Cardinall of Lorayne emonges others being there began to entreate and exhort him to encline to peace and concorde saying that as being absēt he had troubled the kyngdom so now being presēt he might wel appease it Hereto Beza first shewing what good wil he had alwayes borne to the kyng and hys natiue countrey aunswered that he was not of power to trouble so great a kingdome but muche lesse of purpose to do it whiche mighte well appeare by hys wrytinges hopyng also that they should perceyue greater proofe therof in hys talke Then the Queene demaunded of hys wrytynges Wheruppon the Cardenall takynge occasyon sayd that he hadde a booke publyshed in the name of Beza in the which he red one horrible incōuensēce Namely that Christ is now so to be lought in his Supper as afore he tooke vpon hym our flesh and was borne of the virgin I haue heard also quoth he that you wrote in a certaine booke that Christ is in such sort in his Supper as he is in a dunghil With these sayings al those that were present were greatly offended But Beza sayd As for the bokes if they were present I myght more certainly aunswere whether they were myne or no. But as to the first sentence it may wel seeme vnreasonable as it is rehearsed of my Lorde Cardinal But well vnderstode and those thinges considered which go afore it and folowe it we shal fynde it most true But the last is not onely shamefull but wycked also and blasphemous And I am well assured can neyther be founde in my wrytings nor any others of our part Ouer passing therfore this last in the which whosoeuer was the author of it he vttered to playne and manifest a lie the Cardinall returned to the first It were very hard quod he that we should haue no more than those olde fathers Furthermore how could Christes fleshe be geuē afore it was Then Beza asked of the Cardinall whether from the beginning of the world there had ben any Church he graunted Also was not the same Churche a Church by him which is the Mediatour betwixt God and mā There to he agreed also Is not Christ the true God and mā thesame Mediatour He confessed that also Then quod Beza the communicating of the faythful with Christ is not to be limited to y◠tyme in the which in dede he ioined his diuinity to our nature For that which was not as yet by the course of nature was alwayes by power and effect present to the eyes of our fayth Is it not sayd that Abrahā saw the day of Christ and reioyced Also Paule sayeth that our fathers did eate the selfe same spiritual foode and dronke the selfe same spirituall drynke out of the spirituall rocke which folowed them which rocke was Christ Hereunto the Cardinall agreed also and adioyned here to that which is written in the Apocalips that the lamb was slayne from the beginning of the world Then Beza entreated somwhat of the difference of the olde and newe Testament From thys question as it haps many tymes they fel into the reasoning of the presence of the body of Christ in his supper We do not agree quoth the Cardinal in the exposition of these wordes of our Lord. This is my body I graunt quoth Beza and I am sory that we agree no better But I had rather plainly to graunt it than to dissemble it I quoth the Cardinall doe teache the children of my diocesse when they are asked what is the bread of the body of our Lord to answere that it is the body of Christ Do ye disalow that No quoth Beza For it is the sayinge of Christ But the question is after what sort the bread is called the body of Christ For of those thinges which are sayd to be all are not sayd to be after one selfe same sort And there with he touched somewhat of the Sacramental maners of speaking Wherin the Cardinal did not much repugne against the sayings of Beza onely against that place but the rocke is Christ whiche Beza cyted he set this The worde was made flesh But he was sone made to leaue that hold For y◠which is spokē of a natural and essential cōmunion far differeth from the Sacramental speach At the laste this questiō quoth Beza cōsisteth in foure pointes The first is of the signes The other of the thing signifyed The third of y◠cōioyning of the signes with the thing signified The fourth of the participation of the signes y◠thinges signified by thē As to the first quoth he we do not agree that in the lords Supper you do appoint onely accidentes in stede of the signes Wheras we continue there the nature of bread wine as both the nature of Sacraments requires also the holy Scripture teacheth Here the Cardinal interrupting hym Truly quoth he I thinke my selfe able enough to defende transubstantiation But I thynk the deuines might well inough haue left out y◠doctrine Neyther would I y◠vpō that poynt should rest any diursiō of our churches As to the second poynt quoth Beza we do not only say y◠the meryte of Christes death passion is signified vnto vs by the signes of bread and wyne But also the true body that was crucified for vs and the true bloud which was shed for vs and to be short that Christ himself true God and man is signified vnto vs by these visible signes that oure myndes and vnderstanding may by fayth spiritually beholde hym in heauen where he now ascēded resteth And so haue the fruition of all hys goods and giftes to lyfe euerlastyng And that assone and as surely as we see take eate drynke those corporall and visible signes The Cardinall agreed hereto signifying that he was glad to vnderstande it For that he had
all agreed it best to abstayne frō force But neuetthelesse they meant to prouyde that their feare patience should not encrease the furye and insolence of their foes First of al therfore wheras their number was so great that the cōgregation could not assemble wythin their priuate howsen they determined to come together openly and to haue their sermons and readinges in the open congregations Partly bicause necessitie enforced them therto and partly to cleare themselues of such slaunderous reports as already their impudēt aduersaries had raysed of them For it was openly bruted that most haynous and detestable crimes were committed in their assemblies Therefore they came into the yardes and open places some in their priuate howsen and some in the opē cities Few toke the churches For least any thing should be rashly or vnaduisedly done or leasr their aduersaryes myght haue any couloure to accuse them of rebellion the ministers pastours of euery Churche as much as they myght kept the multitude in awe and order yet neuerthelesse hereof rose sondry tumultes and facrions of their aduersaryes Which notwithstanding could not staye or hynder their open metinges Hereof rose sondry troubles and great suspition and feare of rebellion And thys caused at the last that by the commaundement of the kyng and hys councell it was openly proclaimed that none shuld iniury or molest other for any matter of religiō After thys also was published an other whereby as wel the Bishops as other nobles of the realme were commaunded to repayre to Poyssye to deliberate both for the leauyeng of a tribute to discharge the kynges dettes to foren Princes but chefely for the reforming of the estate of religion Therby also the kinges peace and safecondwite was graunted to all suche as woulde come thither freely to propose whatsoeuer perteined to true religion and the establishing of cōcord And it was commaunded vnder payne of death that no mā should trouble thē cōming together assembled or departing but that quietly and freely they myght mete together without trouble or veracion Shortly after by an Act of parliamēt in that which the Bishops and other nobles of the realme wer not only parties but rulers it was decreed vnder paine of death that hereafter none should make any assemblies eyther for preaching or for ministring of the Sacramentes or for mariage other where than in the Churches or after any other sorte than the olde and accustomed maner And furthermore that wythin a certayne space the mynisters that professed the Ghospell should departe the realme of Fraunce Hereof rose gret trouble Bicause now their liberty of comming together takē away it was likely to be greatly preiudicial to the tryall of the whole matter After thys the nobles met at Poyssye Shortly after the ministers of the Gospel came to the court to the king which then lay at Saynt Germans nye to Poyssye Thither somwhat afore were come certayne chosen men sent by the refourmed churches out of the .xii. prouinces to aduaunce religiō These deliberating with the others determined to offer vp to the king a boke in maner of a supplication wherby they woulde uponsome meanes to disputation and conference Therewithal also was geuen vp the cōfession of that faith which they professed thēselues ready to maintayne and defende Of that boke the thiefe poyntes were fowre First that no Bishops nor others of the ecclesiasticall orders should vsurpe the authoriti of Iudges ouer vs. Forasmuch as it behoueth rather that they themselues shoulde pleade their owne cause and stande in triall of reformation Secondly that the king Queene and nobilitie should rule the whole doinges leaste any trouble might arsie So that without contention and strif all matters myght be handeled and decreed Thirdly that al controuersies might be tryed by the worde of god whereupō onely all our fayth and religion ought to be grounded Fourthly that certayne notaryes and Scribes should be chosē of eyther part which might faithfully register whatsoeuer wer done or decreed Whose notes should be of no credite vnlesse they were allowed and confessed of either part These requestes no man misliked And the kyng answered that he would take thaduise of his councell and by his Chauncelour shortly make them an answere yet thesame was long deferred Bicause the matter was cōmunicated with the Bishops without whose councel or knowledge to do any thing it semed not mete For not only for thys matter of religion had the kyng assembled them but also for the leauyeng of mony to discharge hys dettes They waxing proude wyth thys confydence that the kyng semed to nede their aide assured themselues of the obtayning of any thyng agaynste vs nothyng doutyng the assured conquest of Ladye money Furthermore they tryfled and prolonged the tyme seeking al occasions to auoide our conference and disputation For they sayd we were already condemned and that they might not dispute with heretykes These and such other like their accustomed stayes they began to blase whiche neuerthelesse afterwardes they denied Boasting that they wer ready to he are vs. For they were ashamed openly to refuse our conference sith by their own consent we were sent for thither But they fully perswaded themselues that our courage or constancy would not be such as to hasard our lyues for that speach of our wordes Duryng this tyme oure nūber increased For out of euery prouince not in Fraunce onely but also from al the realmes adioyning as many as might without the hynderaunce of their churches drew thither Wherfore at the last we chose certayne to the nūber of .xii. whose names wer these Augustine Malorat Fraūces of Paulon Iohn Remonde Merlin Iohn Mallet Fraūces Morel Nicolas Tolye Theodore Beza Claudius Bessierus Iohn Bodwine Iohn Virell Iohn a Tures Nicolas Gallasius To these Iohn Soma adioyned himself which openly renounced papacy and subscribed to the doctrine Discipline of our Churches Afterwardes came also the reuerende father in God Peter Martir sent for from Tigur Whose comming was scarsely acceptable to our aduersaryes aswell for his singular learning as also for the maiesty and authority which both his Godlinesse and reuerende age haue gotten hym What in thys meane tyme was don of the Bishops whiche were assembled at Poyssye I thynke not good to ouerpasse For least any man should thynke they were ydle I wyl shew wyth what grauer matters they were letted so that they could not presētly heare vs. These questions they disputed amōges themselues What ought to be prescribed vnto Bishops Of the dignities of cathedral churches Of the Canonicalls their exemptions Of Curates their institutiō either by presentation or ordinary collatiē Of assigning them a Canonicall portion Of the lesser that is to wyt the ignoraunt chaplens and their vnreasonable number Of the reformation of monasteryes What should be done of cōmendes Of the number of benefices and their incompatibility What waye hereafter they myght prouide for churches and Monasteryes in time of vacation Whether there myght be any
Church is it which is euery where knowen and of all meÌ„ To the authority of yâ— church he sayd al interpretation of Scriptures and making of traditions ought to bee referred Saying that the succession as well of that Church as of the pastours therof was perpetual but of the Lordes Supper he so entreated the touching nothing at al of the chauÌ„ge of the natures of the elements he came very nye to their opinion which ioyne the body bloud of Christ with the elementes And say that they be both vnder them and in them Which afterwardes we vnderstode was done for a polecy partly to procure their fauoure whom he had so kindly clawed and partly to make vs the more hatefull to them Neither yet did he plainly agree with them but shewed that in thys respect he did willingly ioyne with them that they myghte ioyntly warre against vs. The ende of his oration was to this effect That the kyng and his counsell leauing our opinion should folow the steppes of theyr for fathers and not leaue their accustomed vsage When he had ended we desired that presently whiles the memory therof was yet fresh we might satisfye his obiections and refute his argumeÌ„tes For we feared least after thys the Cardinals answere we should scarcely haue leasure or liberty afterwardes to speake Bicause the day afore many bragged that we shuld loke for nothing els thaÌ„ condemnation the thuÌ„derbolt of excomunication Neyther wer we ignorant therof The Queene taking the aduise of her couÌ„cel coÌ„maunded vs to depart saying that we should answere it an other tyme that she would appoint vs a day wheÌ„ we shuld be preseÌ„t again And surely meruaile had it ben if the byshops which wer of that couÌ„cel would haue geueÌ„ any other councel The next day againe we desired that we might be preseÌ„tly heard and the tyme no longer proloÌ„ged But we could obtayne nothing neither wer we heard before the eight day In the meane time false rumors were spred abrode that we wer ouercome put to sileÌ„ce had nothyng to say Whereas we were ready to haue answered their oration presently And how false such tales be here by men may sufficiently gesse that the Bishops did what they could to breake of the coÌ„ference so that at the last by their importunity they obteined of the Queene that the matter shuld not be opeÌ„ly heard afore the king but in a more secret place afore few Therfore it was deferred til the .xxiiii. day of that moneth at the whiche coÌ„maunded to returne to Poyssye we came before the Quene the king Queen of Nauarre the rest of the Lordes and counsallours there were present also â—… Cardinalles and many Byshops and diuynes of al sortes we the mynisters were admitted only to the number of xij Those being seuered which wer seÌ„t froÌ„ other Churches which afore were ioyned with vs. For now the matter was heard both in narower place in lesse companye than before the Cardynals of lorayne shewed in few wordes that this assemblye was to this end that if we would obiecte any thing agaynst that which he had sayde eyght dayes before we might freely speake shuld be herd Then Beza in the name of vs al said That he would haue wished that immediatlye he might haue aunswered the Cardynalls oration whyles the same was fresh in memorye or at the least that he might haue had som copye therof that he might auÌ„swere certaynly perfectly to euery poynt but forasmuch as he coulde not obtayne that he woulde aunswere so much as he coulde call to mynde Fyrste there fore as concerning the article of the Churche which the Cardinall fyrste handled he deuided it into thre partes First what it is Then what are the marks therof Thirdly what and how great is the authoritie therof It is wel knoweÌ„ quoth he that this name Ecclesia which signifieth the church is deriued from the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifyeth to call froÌ„ on place to another Of calling we find .ii. sorts in the scriptures the one coÌ„ioyned with the working of the holy ghost wherof Paul to the Romains writeth whom he called them he iustified Rom. viii c. xxviii The other althoughe in outward shew It be al one with the first yet is altogether vnprofitable to saluation And that only through the fault of man beyng deaffe at the calling of God Of this calling spake the Lorde when he sayde That many wer called but fewe choseÌ„ Mat. xxii b. xiiii Hereof it happens that the name of the church which signifyeth the congregacion of those that are assembled by the word of god is taken .ii. wayes For generally it contayneth al those which outwardly professe to folowe the calling of god Neyther is it to be doubted but manye hypocrites and reprobate persons are within this nuÌ„ber Neither we thanks be to god therefore haue at any tyme Either written or taught otherwise for asmuch as both the scripture and also common experience doth plainly proue the same but takyng this name of the churche proprely and streyghtlye as manye tymes we doe we then say that it comprehendeth onlye the electe and chosen of god And that al men may know that we be not the authours of this maner of speache or of this doctrine when it is written that the church is the body of Christ bones of his bones fleshe of his fleshe yea when the name of Christ it selfe is geuen vnto it Eph. ii g. xxx as Paule wrytyng to the Corinthians ioyning the members with the heade calleth her Christ i. Cor. xii b. xii xvii how could in the number be contayned the reprobate in as muche as they are the members of the deuill For it cannot bee that we shoulde be members bothe of Christ and of the deuil which Austine writyng agaynste Cresconius well noteth in his seconde booke and xxiiii Chapter He also writyng on the .lxiiii. psalme vsed this distinction of the churche saying yâ— that church whiche is signifyed by IerusaleÌ„ toke her begynnyng of Abel and Babilon of Eain And afterwardes in his fyrst booke of baptysme agaynst the Donatistes the seconde Chapter wheras he taketh the name of the church more largely he saieth that he that begot Abell Enoch Noe Abraham the reste of the Prophetes begot also Cayn Ismaell Dathan and suche lyke Therefore to conclude we muste take that whiche Austine hymselfe wrote in the seuenth boke of the same booke the. 51. chapter whiche is also rehearsed .xxiiii. ix i. a. ca. All thyngs consydred it is said that there are two kynde of men in the churche Some of them sayeth he bee the members of Christe and of the house of God yea the house of GOD it self Other some bee in the house but not of the house For they bee as chaffe with the corne tyll suche tyme as they bee seuered Hereof ryseth a questyon whether the Churche bee inuisible Whiche I thynke good to affyrme and
neither if any manne should ryse from death would they beleue him Or howe did they which had the writings of the Apostles onely when neyther bookes nor commentaries were written of thesame But whereas my Lord Cardinall woulde haue that taken for an Apostolike tradition whiche hathe bene receiued of the church at al times in all places and of al men I see not howe these iii. pointes maie be proued For how great diuersitie shal we find in the bookes of auncient fathers yea and euen in the verye articles of oure faith If these wordes should be weyed at all tymes and of all men wher shall we beginn but at the Apostolike church Who shall be firste in order but onely the Apostles Whose liues and doings are partly faithfully written by Luke and partly gathered out of their owne writinges To be shorte we returne at the last to the first foundatiō of the scriptures sith all truthe came from god who cōmaunded the prophets and Apostles to bee interpreters messengers of oure saluation In the meane time we dooe not reiecte the councels of the fathers as farre as they be confirmed with the testimonies of the holye scripture For them as Austine sayeth the holy◅ ghost hath so tempered that it which◅ in some place is obscurely spoken in some other is expressed more plainlye and more at large And that rule chiefly amonges others he geueth whereb◅ we may vnderstande the scriptures i◅ that booke whiche he wrote of christia◅ doctrine yet there remaineth som◅ doubt in this question Some mē hau◅ thought that the will of God in these thinges whiche pertaine to oure saluation is not fullye declared in those writinges whiche the Prophetes and Apostles haue lefte vnto vs. Whiche doubte if it should take any place what a gap wer ther opened to all mischefe And certes this was the breache by the which Sathan first pearced into the vine yard of the lord to destroy it God truely before the tune of Moyses with visiōs reuelatiōs directed his church in like maner yeapostles before thei put theyr doctrine in writīg taught yesame by worde of mouth But because the nūber of men encreasing their noughtynesse encreased also the lorde would y◠this doctrine shoulde bee contayned in writinges and monumentes Whiche might be vnderstoode and perceiued of al men why so that he might confoūd the impudence and rashnesse of suche as wil set foorth cloke their dreames with the name of tradition reuelation and custome But if the doctrine of god be written onely in some part to what purpose is this remedy Truely it can not be so Iohn spake of the scriptures when he sayeth that those things which are written are written to that ende that we beleuing them may haue life euerlasting Iohn xx ◅ ◅xi whiche he had falslye sayde yf thei themselues had concealed any doctrine necessary to life and saluation But Paule when he declareth the vse of scripture vnder the person of Tymothe teacheth all ministers yf anye thing should haue ben added to the scriptures wuld not haue affirmed that by them the man of god is made perfecte i. Timo. ii d. xvi Neither do we denye but y◠at all times there haue ben somtraditions of the apostles which be not written But those were suche as pertained to the ciuil order of the churche But forasmuche as many men haue abused this name this great while I thinke good to shewe what traditions ought to bee counted Apostolike Whiche shall not be hard yf in iudgyng and discernyng them we vse the markes For fyrst we must consyder whether they doe agree with the doctryne of the woorde and then whether they bee apte and meete to edify◅ For it is certayne that the Apostles dyd neuer institute any rites and ordinaunces whiche eyther directly or els in anye parte were contrarye to theyr owne doctryne or myghte withdrawe menne from spirituall worshippyng whereof theyr owne wrytynges beare sufficiente recorde If thys rule be obserued bothe doctrine shall easilye be discerned frō traditions also false traditions frō the true Neyther are you ignorant how foolishe Tertullian iudgeth their opinions which think that the apostles haue ouerpassed an◅thīg necessary to saluatiō which ether by word of mouth or writīgs thei haue not taught but we will adde more hereto Namely that those things which herein the Apostles decreed were not continuall Truelye their instytutions passe all exception yet neuerthelesse by the rule of charitye they yelded somewhat to the weaknes of men As when the eating of suffocatorū and bloud was forbid the Iewes Also those thynges which Paule himselfe taught and obserued in Timothe and his own persō Ac. 15. f. 25. Act. 16. a. ◠i Co. 16. d. xxix i Co. 11. a 7 Which now truly shuld haue no place but by the generall rule of charitye whereby we are willed in things indifferēt to apply our selues to our neighbours Other such like may be gathered of their rytes as of kissing vncouering the head which was the signe of authority and other such lyke whiche at this daye are contrarye to y◠customes of many nations amōg whō it would seme most folish the men should kisse the one the other to talke with the heade vncouered is commonly a signe of y◠lowest state and condicion These thinges therefore ought to be considered before anye custome be thought Apostolyke Also no man must grounde vppon the authority of the Apostles to trouble the church As it hapned in the cōtrouersye of the daye in the which Easter should be kept whiche bred miserable deuision and euē in the Apostles tyme by those that did abuse the authoritie of the churche at Ierusalē to myngle Iewishnesse wyth Christian religion Of whom it is writen in the Actes of the Apostles where it was decreed by a councell that no man should lay that yoke on mennes cōsciēces Wherby it may easely be perceiued that the Apostles could not be the authoures of so many ceremonies to the which afterwardes Satisfaction merites and remission of sinnes wer attributed For they taught far otherwise And so much they dissented from makyng newe ceremonies that they gaue no place to those of Moses lawe of the whiche God was the author Of thys yoke of traditions obseruances Austine long since writing to Ianuarius much cōplained if he had liued in our tyme how would he haue lamented thē Wherfore to be shorte we desyre that the Scripture whiche herein is playne maye iudge good traditions frō euil holy from prophane profitable frō hurtful necessarye frō superfluous When of these articles we are once agreed this question shall easily be dissolued whether the authoritie of the church be greater thā of the woorde of god which certes is no lesse fonde than if a man should doubte whether the sōn ought to be aboue his father the wife aboue her husbande or man aboue god And sure neuer the true church or any godly mā woulde moue such
was in doctrine That there were onely three kept before Austines time â–ª The Nicene councell against the Arrians the councel of Constantinople against the MacedoniaÌ„s the first counsel of Ephesus against Nestorius none of the which was afterwardes amended He denied the history of Paphuntius as a thyng doubtful to be credited and further sayd that it perteined not to the purpose At the laste to geue the Cardinall occasion which seking by al meanes to breake of the conference willed him to entreate of the supper he came to that question and with few wordes entreated of the presence of the body of Christ in the bred And he red to vs certaine places out of the bokes of Caluine â—…aling neuerthelesse the name of the â—…tour saying that he â—…eruaâ—…led if we would swarue from hym to whom we geue most authoritie aboue the rest about the end of his tale he gaue vs those places to read Afore we answered Spensa a Monk of that order that are clothed all in white whose name they say was Xantus stepped forth enflamed with desire of conteÌ„tion And as though he were aggrieued that SpeÌ„sa had talked somwhat grauely and modestly begaÌ„ to powre out his stomake and not able to stay any loÌ„ger wuld not let vs answer til we had first heard him Then he began to repeate those things which SpeÌ„sa had already spokeÌ„ at large sawcig yesame w e scoffes tauntes which he semed to esteme as that greatest ornameÌ„ts grace of his talke For vs he coÌ„pared both to other auncient heretiâ—…es also to the Anabaptists but at the last he became so mad that abusing the authority of the auÌ„cieÌ„t fathers he affirmed that the fouÌ„datiâ—… of yâ— traditioÌ„s is more sure than of the scripture For the scriptures quoth he may by diuers interpretations bee wried sondry waies And that Ciprian with the rest of the Aphricans was deceiued in this that they sayd Christ sayeth not I am that custom But I am the waye truthe and lyfe And that this his saying heretikes dyd afterwardes commonly abuse He alledged the authoritie of Tertullian of the prescriptions of heretikes imperyously euen like a maister of that scooles I will not saye foolyshly willyng Beza to reade the place by hym alledged twice or thrice Tertullians wordes be these They alledge the scriptures and with these their impudence at the fyrst moue awaye Also that the disputation with scriptures nothyng auaileth vnlesse a man do altogether eyther turne his stomake or his brayne And again Therfore we must not appeale to the scriptures neither contend with them by whom there is eyther no victorye to be atchieued or if there be any it is verye vncertain Furthermore XaÌ„tus said the god otherwise thaÌ„ he intended for that was his term deliuered his doctryne in writing abusig the autority of Chrisostom or of the author of the imperfecte work writteÌ„ vpoÌ„ Mathew And falslye touching the proeme of that work wher ther is no suche thyng red For these bee the wordes of the author After that all the people of the Iewes was falleÌ„ into the depth of sin it was necessary that then a law shuld be writen the tables geueÌ„ warning threates by theÌ„ And this we see hapned not only to the holy meÌ„ of the olde testameÌ„t but eueÌ„ of the new also For Christ left nothing in writyng to hys apostles but in stede of writing promised to geue theÌ„ the grace of the holy gost He quoth he wil teach you al thinges Then he added also that not onely the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was geuen of god wherof came al traditions Also for the rule to discerne traditions that not only the word but also the nature custom is to be considred Accordyng to the saying of Paule the .i. Corint xi Nature it self teacheth you And again neyther let vs not haue such a custome neyther the exaumples of the church of god to be shorte he rehearsed the same that Spensa had afoâ—…e spoken Hereto Beza aunswered modestly at large that to haue one selfe same tale doubled of diuers is not mete for that conference or disputation wherein any good ende or concorde should be sought For that of muche matter heaped together the witts of man are confounded so as therof no good thing may aryse but confusion That euen by their own iudgementes if they had at any tyme vsed disputatioÌ„ this order could not be allowed Neuerthelesse he hoped that so farre as his memory would serue hym to reherse their reasons he would lightly satisfy them And therwithal he desired the Queene and the rest of the nobles hereafter to take some better order for their conference First therfore wheras Spensa had sayd that he much meruayled that we toke vpon vs to teache forasmucheas the ordinary successors had neuer layde handes vpon vs he answered that this is not the chiefe signe of lawfull calling For the chiefe and substantiall partes be the inquisition of learning and lyfe and choyse and election These be the ordinary meanes To the which although the outwarde ceremonies of laying on handes be not adioyned yet the ministery is lawful notwithstanding And that we which wer there present to defende our doctrine and the rest of oure felowes waÌ„ted not also the third mark And neded not to stay on that poynte forasmuch as we were both chosen and confirmed For handes were layed vpoÌ„ vs and we lawfully presented to oure churches which accepted our ministery if it be obiected that those of whom we were instituted and which layed their handes on vs had no autority of the ordinary successors neyther were chosen of the people the answere is ready that thinges being in such confusioÌ„ and the ecclesiasticall order disordred we dyd not stay for the layeng on of their handes whose vicious lyfe superstition false doctrine we haue alwayes repreheÌ„ded For in vaine should we haue sought to haue bin allowed of them whiche wyth deadly hate pursued that truth the defeÌ„ders therof And that we wanted not the presideÌ„tes of the Prophetes to whoÌ„ none were more deadly enemies than the Priestes forasmuch as thei themselues wer turned out of kind no longer respected their office therfore forasmuche as against theÌ„ chiefly the lord had styrred vp the prophets they ought not to seke for at their hands the confirmatioÌ„ of that autority which they had receyued of god Nether did they intrude theÌ„selues into the ministery but wheÌ„ thei had once the coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„ts of god thei wer coÌ„pelled eueÌ„ with the peril of theyr liues to execute thesame And that thesame we in these our times ought to do also Furthermore yâ— extraordinary calling is not alwaies proued by miracles For that which we read of Moses the signes shewed by him hapned not so in all the rest For by what miracles did Esay Daniel Amos Zachary proue theyr calling Or Paulus afore he did execute his charge Did he stay
Sacramentes And we againe aske of hym by whom he was chosen and institute Whether by the voices of the elders of his church whether he were desyred of the people whether there wer any inquisitiō made of his life doctrine He woulde soone say yea But he wuld soone be proued alter Whereof we desier no other witnes thā their own cōsciece which heare vs know that whole matter perfectly If he would obsect against vs that we are no ministers because we wante the laying on of hands we would reply again that he is no bishop because in institutions of hym those things wer not obserued which are appointed for the chief substantiall poyutes by the law of god And when our talke wer more whether perhappes we would goe farther and say in this sort You boaste of the laying on of handes which whosoeuer lacketh you thynk no perfect minister what if you wante the two other points which are the chiefest Namely inquisition of lyfe learning the election of the elders of your church may ye not then much lesse thā we bragge of the name of a pastor It was decreed by the councel of Chalcedon that the ordynation of the bishop or prtest shoulde bee frustrate of no force which is not specially appointed to some one churche And forasmuche as they would haue it doyde to the iniury of hym that ordayneth it much more may we obiect thesame agaynst the bishop that thus reasoneth with vs inasmuch he is destitute of the two chiefest conditions prescribed by the apostle i. Tim. iii a. Titus i Another thyng also may bee added hereto which we speak vnwilling neuerthelesse we are enforced therto the euery man maye perceiue that this disputation of our vocation may not be touched with out great peril If we should ask of that same bishop who layde their hādes on him or whether he bought it not with money what would he aunswer He would deny that he bought it and he would say that those bishops layd hāds on him which had autority therto of the church Again if we should enquire how much his authoritie cost hym he would say he bought it not but yet he woulde confesse that he gaue some thousandes of crownes As though he shoulde saye I boughte not the bread but the corne wher with the bread was made This reasonyng if it should be parted by the autority of the coūcels canōs of the churches woulde shame a greate many byshops pastours And sure we would not enter therein least any man should be offēded therby Neyther wyll we yet touche it or sek◅ to reuenge oure selues only we mynde to shew y◠we dyd of late purposely answere shortly briefly to those thyngs y◠wer layd agaynst vs for that we woulde haue all gently and myldly handled But as for the Lords supper we spake more sparely therof bearyng with the infirmitte of some whiche not accustomed to that doctrine are wont to be offended assoone as they heare anye thing y◠is strange or vnwōted to thē And truly we had rather that thei thēselues shuld learne thesame out of the aunciēt writings of the Doctors of the church th◅ by vs which we hoped should haue com to passe if my lord Cardinal had kepte his promisse For he promised opēly to instruct vs chiefly in this article of the lords supper out of their writings whiche wrote therof with in .v. C. yeres after Christ so that we would now agree to receyue the light if it appered that thesame was hitherto hiddē frō vs. To satisfye this our expectatiō or rather the expectatiō of an infinite nūber of mē he seperated this article frō others verye necessary gaue it to vs alone And required vs to subscribe to it saying y◠otherwise the conference would be brokē of yf we should plead our cause in prison you woulde scarce vse suche talke towardes vs as to saye subscribe hereto or els we condemne you Certainly this is no part of your charge For that office which ye now professe requyreth y◠if we walk in error you should reduce vs beyng once cōuict therof into the way and exhort vs with wholesom doctrine And chiefly those which offer thēselues to yelde an accompt of theyr fayth by the scriptures And truly if thys kinde of condemnation be straunge certainly muche more straunge is the way and meanes wherby you procede to yesame We came together here chieflye for .ii. causes First to render an accompte to god to you to the whole worlde of oure fayth Not to trauel for gods cause the kings the whole kingdom to fynde some way and meanes wherby the troubles late stirred in religion may be appeased Now if we bee reiected or dysmissed wtout leaue or liberty to dispute whatsoeuer shal be done vnto vs shal be declared to all Christendome the olde tumultes shal be nothyng appeased as thei know right wel which go about to preuēt it If the matter did only belōg to vs that are here present truly at your plesure with out peril as farre as mā may iudge you might dayly with vs. But you must cōsider that we stand here in the name of al those that professe the gospel not onely in this realme but euen in Swicerlād Poole Germany England and Scotland whiche all looke for som certayne happy end of this assēbly What may they thinke when in stede of disputatiō conference which was promised vs they shall vnderstande that the tenth part of one article was offred to vs wyth this addition Subscribe to this or els go no further And yf we doe subscrybe what shall you be the better They that sente vs wyll desyre to knowe whether we were compelled therto by force or els conuict by good sure argumente So what els shall happen of this order which you now begin to take thā gret offence and grudge wee beseche the Queene therfore that she wyll not suffer this holy purpose to be brokē of but cōmaund that certain learned mete men be chosen out that will wyllynglye conferrs with vs. Neuerthelesse least we should seme to answer nothyng to those thynges that haue ben obiected agaynst vs whatsoeuer M. Spēsa gaue vs writen out of Caluins booke we receyue allowe But as to the article whyche my Lord Cardinal offred vs take or rather gelded out of the cōfessiō of Awgspurge we say there are many thynges therin to be considred First that the whole confession should haue ben offred vnto vs. For it is agaynst reason to proffer vs one article without the reste Then we woulde knowe whether of theyr owne heads priuately whiche we are lothe to think neuerthelesse we woulde gladlye knowe the truth therof or elles in the name of all the Lords they offer vs the confusion of Augspurge that al doutes taken away we may more freely conferre For so it would come to passe the thanks shuld generally be geuē to god for y◠my