certaine mo the like be those which I haue let passe as being partely vnnecessarie and vnprofitable partely vnmeete good houres to be bestowed about them By the handeling of these the weightier pointes it wil sufficiently appeare to al menne with what stuffe he filleth his great Bookes what smal credite he deserueth how litle pith there is to be found in his multitude of wordes how litle there is that serueth aptly to the purpose among the great heapes of testimonies that he laieth together Surely his Defence being wel examined by any man that hath skil and can iudge of these points it must needes be thought that when he saw he had not the plaine truth of his side yet with multitude of allegations he would make a shew of learning to the ignorant and trouble the answerer with confusion Euen so many Barbarous Princes as we reade in stories when they lacked a conuenient number of good and tried Souldiers haue gonne about to fraie their enemies with multitude of people who haue learned by their great ouerthrowes that oftentimes victorie is not obteined by multitude of menne In deede the Truth needeth not so many sayinges piked out of Schoolemenne of Summistes of Gloses vpon Gratian and other partes of the Canon Lawe and out of so many Canonistes of al sortes For trial of a mater to be prooued true in questions touching our beleefe one saying of the Scripture is sufficient if the expresse Scripture faile vs twoo or three Testimonies of the Ancient Fathers not being contrarie to the reste maie suffice But suche a confuse and vnorderly number of sayinges specially of suche as be not of great estimation as this man commonly allegeth of the same not one making cleerely for this purpose in moste matters what doth it els but breede a suspicion among the wise that the matter is not true for proufe whereof they be alleged But by this meane he thought to winne credit at least with the people For the people that can not iudge of these matters thinketh him best learned that hath most woordes It is knowen that when they beholde two reasoning together of any thing whereof they haue no skil commonly they commend the mainteiner of the worse cause in case he be fuller of wordes be they neuer so litle to the purpose and say in his praise that he answered the other partie to euery Quare M. Iewel vnderstanding this and making his most accompte of the people and of them that be vnlearned to whom he leaneth and by multitude of whom he and they of his side mind to stand for touching the learned they see they can winne none bestoweth great paines and charges to set out great bookes that at least in the opinion of the vnlearned and of them that haue not leisure to examine the points how substantially they are treated he maie seeme to haue done iolily and to haue acquited him selfe like a great Clerke In very deede if a man haue care howe muche he maie saie rather then how truly and feare not to vtter vntruthes he hath this aduantage ouer his aduersarie defending the truth with a conscience not to swarue from the censure of the Church that he may alwaies finde abundance of matter to vtter For as it hath of olde ben said Mendacium est multiplex veritas simplex Lying is manifolde Truth is simple Lying hath many plaites and foldinges Truth is without plaite or wrinckle Therefore it is no marueile if the Treaties of the one be narrowe and shorte of the other wide and long As for me if I prooue M. Iewel an vntrue man in so many pointes as I haue treated of I haue donne that whereby his credite must be broken His credite being broken what remaineth but that in this kinde of trade he go for a Banckroute If he be a Banckrout worthily is he to be begiled that trusteth him Some wil say perhaps it is not likely I should with so smal a booke discredit him that hath written so much But it maie please this man to remember that to saie the truth it is not M. Iewel that hath written muche He hath taken muche out of other mens bookes of his owne he hath in maÌ„ner nothing certainely very litle So that peruse his Booke who wil he shal finde that he is but a seely Translatour of other mens wordes a heaper together of al Writers sayings and that most commonly to more ostentation of tale then to the making vp of good weight So that if thinges be brought to an exact trial he shal be found no disputer no reasoner no discourser no Writer but only a gatherer together of other mennes Sentences How be it it is not the hugenesse of a booke that argueth the sufficiencie of proufes Truth is content to be set foorth with few wordes Neither yet doo I reproue him for that he allegeth what he findeth in other Writers For therby we bring credite to doubteful matters But for that alleging so much he allegeth so litle to the purpose yea in manner nothing and boldly wil I auouche it vtterly nothing for due proufe of any his new and strange doctrines being contrarie to that of ancient time hath benne beleeued in the Catholique Churche This shal seeme more probable if it be confirmed by some plaine and true examples Lette vs then examine M. Iewelles common demeanour in an example or twoo To discusse many the breuitie of a Preface wil not permitte O that he were in place to choose the example him selfe out of his whole Booke to his best aduantage that so it might euidently appeare with what weake tooles he fighteth against the truth ExaÌ„ples vvhereby it is shewed hovve vvith void and impertineÌ„t stuffe M. Ievvel filleth his great Booke Defence Pag. 163. Heb. 13. Confut. 73 b. Marke hovv M. Ievv alvvaies keepeth him selfe from coÌ„ming vnto the point in controuersie Whereas in the Apologie much is said in the commeÌ„dation of Matrimonie which no Catholique man euer discommended as that it is Holy and honorable in al sortes and states of personnes in the Apostles in the Ministers of the Church and in Bisshops and that it is an honest and lawful thing as S. Chrysostom saith for a man liuing in Matrimonie to take vpon him therewith the dignitie of a Bisshop to this I saie in my Confutation that albeit Matrimonie be holy and honorable in al and an vndefiled â—eâ— as S. Paule saith yet that it is not lawful for such personnes to marrie who haue deliberately vowed Chastitie or haue taken holy Orders This there I prooue by good and sufficient authoritie as it maie be seene in my said Confutation Now what is M. Iewels part here to proue for maintenaÌ„ce of his doctrine but that a man notwithstaÌ„ding his Vow or receiuing of holy Orders maie lawfully marrie This is the very point of the controuersie and thereto onely should he haue directed his talke If he go about any thing els it is beside the purpose But consider
his quotations to be in my said two Bookes whiche are not there in deede altogether in that order and meaning as he vntruly hath alleged them I proue his dealing herein partely to be agreable to his other false demeanour and partely that good and iust causes there were why I should writing against him vse suche order of language Furthermore bicause he woulde the great and manifolde Vntruthes with whiche I charged him to seeme no Vntruthes at al but that al is the Gospel what so euer commeth from his Mouthe and whereas for proufe thereof he hath set forth a View of his Vntruthes the least of al that he could espie by me noted against him and pretendeth to iustifie the same his least Vntruthes in the said View I haue made an answere to that View of Vntruthes and there doo shewe manifestly specially in the chiefe pointes where errour is most perilous that he was truely and iustly charged with those Vntruthes and that for ought he hath yet said in Defence of them he remaineth stil chargeable with the same as before This muche I haue perfourmed in the first Booke After this in foure bookes folowing I detecte his Errours Lies Cauilles shiftes Sclaunders and sundrie vntrue matters founde in the firste and seconde parte of his Defence And in respecte thereof I cal the Treatie A Detection of sundrie foule errours lies sclaunders c. At length hauing tried by very certaine experience and exacte view of the whole Booke that there was no ende of lying what place so euer in reading my eie lighted vppon I thought it most profitable and most agreable with my profession to let passe thinges of smal importance the handeling of whiche serued him specially to scoffe to vtter vile matter againste the Churche and to fil vp his Booke in tended at the beginning to be made greate and to treate of the Articles of Doctrine in defence of the Truthe and to confute what he hath brought to the contrarie Among whiche Articles of doctrine of some I haue treated briefly as being alreadie treated of in my Confutation and otherwheres of some at good length and with more diligence as of Succession and of the vnlawful Marriages of Priestes and al other Votaries wherein he is very large and copious of Doctours sayinges of al sortes but vtterly destitute of any one saying that maketh cleerely for his parte In the ende I doo most euidently disproue and refel what he was hable to bring for Defence of two pointes which he is not ashamed to affirme seming to me the one very false the other very sclaunderous The first is as he auoucheth them that matters of faith and Ecclesiastical causes are to be iudged by the Ciuile Magistrate The other is that the Papistes haue taught that simple Fornication is no sinne How weake proufes he bringeth for the one and for the other and yet how shamelesly he goeth about to prooue them by conference of bothe our Treaties it shal appeare Withal there I haue added a Comparison of Errours in mistaking names of menne bookes Chapters c. with whiche M. Iewel chargeth me and I him Matters let passe vvith treating vvhereof the Defence is grovven to a Huge Volume Thus haue I declared in fewe the Summe as it were and Order of this Treatie As for sundrie other matters as of forged Scriptures of the doctrine of Deuilles so he calleth the forbidding of Priestes Monkes Friers and Nunnes to marrie of the fruites of single life whereof he laith out great stoare of filthy sayinges of S. Iames Epistle whether it be Canonical Scripture of sundrie ancient Traditions now growen out of vse of the Fourmes and Accidentes whereat he scoffeth like a Vice plaier of the number of the Sacraments of the Churche which we defende to be seuen he affirmeth to be but two or els so many as the thinges be vnto which the name of Sacrament is by any Writer applied which are very many of the Faith of Infantes of their new found Imaginatiue Faith or rather phantastical Imaginatiō that eateth the bodie and drinketh the bloud of Christ of the Popes Dispensations of dissensions among the Fathers of Nominales and Reales of Thomistes and Scotistes of diuersitie of religious persons Apparel wherein he saith they put great holinesse of the variance betwen the Lutherās and the Zuinglians of the fable of Dame Iohane the woman Pope of the Marble Image lying in the high way at Rome of the stoole of easement of Porphyrie stoane at Lateran of Athenes and Rome whether they were Vniuersities in the time this Dame Iohane is feyned to haue liued in of the vicious life of Petrus Aloisius Duke of Parma and Placentia of Iohn Diazius death of the slaughter of the Boures of Germanie that tooke weapons against the nobilitie there prouoked by the preaching of Luther and his scholers of Constantines Donation of Poison ministred in the Sacrament as he reporteth feined fables for stories of great soothe of the abomination of desolation of the state of the Church of Rome of Antichrist of the mistaking of Cardinal Hosius of their pretensed burning of the Scriptures of S. Augustine the Apostle of the English Nation that he was a wicked man of Priestes keeping of Concubines of Images of Latine Praiers and Churche Seruice of Comparison of learning betwene the Catholiques and the Protestantes of Rome whether it be Babylon of summoning of Councelles of the Stewes in Rome whereof gladly he vttereth muche talke of kissing the Popes foote of the Popes hurling of Franciscus Daldulus fast tied in chaines vnder his table there to gnaw boanes with his Dogges of the Popes Bridle and Stirop to be holden by Princes of Pope Hildebrandes surmised wicked deedes as they fable of the Popes treadding on the Emperours necke of the Pope whether he be euer holy of the Popes Exactions of the Cheast in the Popes bosom whether the Pope be God of the Popes power feined to be ouer Angels whether the Pope can commit Simonie whether the Pope be King of Kinges whether the Pope be aboue general Councels whether the Pope maie erre or no whether the Pope be a Kinge Of these and of a great many moe suche matters whereof some be lothesom some be fabulous vaine and friuolous some be false sclaunderous and spiteful some blasphemous some alreadie sufficiently treated of briefly al tending vnto the contempt of the Catholique Religion as M. Iewel handleth them in which matters he hath vttered the stoare of his learning Of these I saie I haue said nothing much disaduantaging my selfe thereby and the common cause which I defend for so much as in the making vp of his great Booke with heaping together these ministerly matters he hath vttered as he doth euery where els good stoare of most euident and grosse Lies of which his owne frendes and best fauourers in case thei were detected would be ashamed These forenamed be the thinges which I haue briefly handled and these other and
greeue the harte not onely of his Aduersarie but also of any other godly man with scorneful flowtes in thinges of greatest holinesse But Christian Reader we striue not for the Garland of that game we go not about to trie maisteries of suche witte or of humaine learning Our strife is about the Truthe The waie to shewe it and proue it whiche he him selfe by open Chalenge hath offred his Doctrine to be tried by is by laying forth the plaine Scriptures the examples of the Primitiue Church the testimonies of the General Councelles and ancient Fathers Of these who hath so great stoare saith a frende of his as M. Iewel Who euer sawe the margent of any Booke so beset with cotations as his Bookes are This were a great euidence of the Truthe on his side if the matter were alwaies tried by what so euer multitude of writers sayinges But what if the number of his testimonies be quite beside the purpose Seemeth he not then very shamelesse Is he not then farre to blame so to abuse the plaine and wel meaning Readers It shal be said perhappes in his excuse He seeth the negligence of menne he coÌ„sidered that fewe or none examine our writinges And therefore he thinketh he shal seeme to saie muche though in deede nothing be said that perteineth to the pointes presently handled And where a thing is to be done and the same for want of habilitie can not be done there it seemeth good policie to geue the assaie and to make shewe as if it could be donne or were donne It is knowen how flatterers make resemblance of frendship how Hypocrites geue forthe tokens of holinesse the intended Bankroute of good truste and credite the craking Coward of stoute courage Beggers oftentimes of welth Queanes of womanly honestie and chast demeanour Right so M. Iewel feeling him selfe destitute of the Truthe and impugning the Truthe and professing to deliuer vnto the worlde a new Truthe that is to saie a heape of olde Vntruthes busily set forth of late yeres by Luther Zuinglius Caluine Beza and the reste and by Wiklefe Hus Waldenses and others their predecessours in former times laboureth with al his witte and cunning to iustifie it calling it by the name of Goddes pure worde the Gospel and the sincere Truthe that whereas he is not hable to perfourme his intent in deed yet he might seeme to make it good with wordes Touching the life of the Clergie wel maie I confesse that M. Iewel hath somewhat to saie out of certaine writers how true I knowe not whereto I shal hardly be hable to make answer in ful defence of certaine personnes But as touching the Doctrine that the Catholike Churche holdeth at this daie and hath alwaies holden I auouche boldly as by sundrie our bookes it hath now ben clearely proued and they vnderstand so much that doo thoroughly examine the reasons authorities and proufes of both partes that he is not hable to bring so muche as one sentence out of any allowed writer that may not easily be refelled And bicause he knoweth that in pointes of Doctrine the force of Truth is clearely on our side he would faine traine me from matters of Doctrine wherein he hath smal hope of victorie or of acquitting him selfe with euen hande vnto matters of life and other bye thinges whereof what so euer be beleeued therein is no great danger touching our Saluation As for example what cracke is there made in the Doctrine of the Catholique Churche if the Nominales and the Reales if the Thomistes and Scotistes dissent about pointes Logical or Metaphysical or perhappes also about the paringes of some Scholastical pointes of Diuinitie What if some light beleeuing writers haue sadly and in ernest made mention of one Ioane a woman Pope deceiued by Martinus Polonus Martinus Polonus a man of smal credite who moued with olde wiues tales first committed that fable to writing What if some later writers haue vttered their phantasies whiche they dreamed thereof vpon occasion of an olde Marble Stone hauing in it a woman with a ladde standing by her engraued What if a fewe menne that helde with certaine euil Emperours whiche could not abide to be reuoked from their vnlawful lustes by the Pope for the time being haue written and reported il of a fewe Popes What if Iohannes Casa wrote some vnchaste Italian Sonettes and Rymes in his yewth though for filthinesse not comparable to suche as be extant of Bezaes making the Apostle of the Frenche Huguenotes What if Petrus Aloisius whom Paulus Tertius the Pope loued so tenderly were a vicious man What if Iohn Diazius the Spaniard were vnnaturally murdered by Alphonsus Diazius his brother that liued at Rome What if Luther wrote against the furious vproares of the Boures in Germanie when he sawe they were sure to be ouerthrowen by the Nobilitie there whom notwithstanding he had before by Thomas Muncer his scholer stirred to take weapons against their Lordes that he might laie some good colour vpon that he had il begonne What if some haue written though not without contradiction of others that Poison was ministred in the blessed Sacrament What if a Pope shewed him selfe cruel and without pitie in suffering Frances Dandulus the Venetians Ambassadour to lie vnder his table like a dogge whiles he was at diner What if Popes haue suffered great Princes and Monarkes to kisse their feete to holde their Stiroppes to leade their horses by the Bridle Wâ—at if Gregorie the seuenth otherwise called Hildebrande whom many graue Writers reporte to haue benne a man of great vertue and an excellent good gouernour of the Church be of some Writers of that age who flattered the Emperour then being that Popes mortal enemie accompted an il man What if Pope Alexander vsed Frederike the Emperour more proudly then became a man of his calling What if Constantines Donation can not be most sufficiently proued by record of antiquitie What if certaine Emperours and other Princes for great causes haue ben remoued froÌ„ their estates by the Popes authoritie What if the Gloser vpon Gratian and certaine other Canonistes haue immoderately magnified the Pope and to extol his power haue vsed some termes vndiscretely which neuerthelesse by fauorable interpretation maie be iustified What if the Popes at certaine times either for negligence cared not or for the wrechednesse of mannes il inclination could not or for great considerations would not vtterly purge the Citie of Rome of Courtesanes and Brodel houses What if the life of many Priestes Bishoppes Cardinals yea of some Popes also hath iustly deserued to be reproued Once to conclude what if al sortes of olde Bookes being raked out of dusty corners Schoolemen Summistes Glosers vaine Chroniclers Legendes writers of Dreames and Visions and suche Riffe raffe and menne for the purpose being set a worke to peruse them in the same be founde a fewe fonde pointes of Doctrine certaine loose Conclusions many seely Tales not worth the telling and some lewd faultes of
and grosse manner of bearing suche as we see when we beholde nourses bearing their children Now as it is euident by the order of the wordes in my Answer Ansvver to your Chalenge fol. 108. b. I alleged not this place of S. Augustine out of the second Sermon but that other former place out of the first Sermon vpon the .33 Psalme Thus are you clearely confuted and eftesones charged with a double Vntruth for leauing out the worde Quodammodo out of Liberatus wherein the chiefe weight of the matter there spoken of lyeth and for charging me with your owne peculiar faulte of corrupting S. Augustines saying by taking away the worde quodammodo where that holy Doctour hath it not So then by this View of your Vntruthes we haue a perfite View that Vntruthes can not be defended but with a multiplying of newe Vntruthes Wherefore the fewer suche Defences ye write with the fewer Vntruthes shal ye peister the worlde The Seconde Booke conteineth a Detection of certaine Lies Cauilles Sclaunders and of suche other vntrue matter vttered by M. Iewel in the first parte of the Defence The first Chapter IT is not reason gentle Reader thou shouldest require at my handes a ful answere to euery parte and parcel of the huge booke that M. Iewel hath set out in Defence as he preteÌ„deth of th'Apologie The labour should be wearisome the time long the charges great that neither I perhappes should haue habilitie to print it nor thou liste to bye it And when al were done though many good thinges should be vttered yet the more part would not be worth the reading For whereas he heapeth together somuch al in manner out of other writters which is either vtterly impertinent and such as being in it selfe true neither reliueth his cause nor weakeneth ours or is wrested to a meaning quite contrarie to that the authours had whence it is taken or al together falsified by one corruption or other and what he bringeth of his owne which in respecte of the rest is very litle is either false in sense or light in the scorneful manner of vtterance or a mere wrangling or briefly otherwise vain and friuolous al this being so as by this Detection it shal sufficiently appeare if a iuste and particular answere were made vnto it whiche of necessitie must amounte to a farre greater quaÌ„titie then the Defence it selfe is of any man of iudgement can soone conceiue how vnfruitefully good houres should be bestowed in reading it ouer Wherefore if I so applie my labour as the thinges of least weight being past ouer the chiefe pointes or the greatest parte of the chief pointes of M. Iewels Defence be refuted and the necessarie truthe clearely confirmed and that with conuenieÌ„t spede I trust I shal seme to haue donne that which in this case and in this state of time at my handes was to be looked for Leauing then many other vnnecessary thinges obiected by M. Iewel against the Catholique Churche let vs heare the woorst he hath not benne a shamed to saie and first in the first parte M. Iewel in the first parte of his Defence pagina 7. The Manicheis forbad lavvful marriage and allovved fornication In quaest in No. Tes q. 72. as M. Hardinges Catholiques doo novve So saith S. Augustine of them Nuptiarum aditus intercludunt promiscuè conuenire hortantur Harding You sclaunder vs M. Iewel most vniustly and impudently The Catholiques neuer forbad lawful marriage Fornication in a Clerke neuer allovved but alvvaies punished though diuersly accordiÌ„g to diuersitie of times And it is knowen to al the worlde that Fornication was neuer allowed in the Catholique Churche at any time or age For this your weake proufes are out of Panormitane and other Canonistes Panormitane speaking of his time saith that fornication in the Clergie was not pounished then so greuously as in olde time This proueth not that it was then allowed Though a Clerke be not pounished for fornication with Deposition whiche is a perpetual remouing from the ministerie of the Aulter yet he might be pounished and was to be pounished otherwise as with Suspension or Dâ—priuation and with other meâ—nes at the discretion of the Ordinarie Now the truth is Panormitane teacheth not that a Clerke is not to be pounished for Fornication at al but that he is not to be pounished with Deposition indistinctè indistinctly as the austeritie of the Primitiue Church required when Clerkes were generally deposed for euery mortal sinne without distinction How and in what sorte a Clerke is now to be pounished for fornication In Cap. At si clerici Extrà de Iudic. Panormitane sheweth at large where he speaketh thereof purposely as I haue before declared in my Answere to the View of Vntruthes in the. 9. Vntruthe fol. 69. a. August in Quaest in Nouum Testam quast 72. Againe the Manicheis by your pretensed proufe out of S. Augustine Nuptiarum aditus intercludunt promiscuè conuenire hortabantur excluded al men from marriage generally and exhorted their followers to vse carnal dealing together one with an other in common without distinction of al degrees of personnes For so signifieth the Latine worde promiscuè But who seeth not this excedingly to passe simple Fornication And to exhorte men and weemen to suche abominable Bauderie who seeth it not to passe without al comparison the not most extremâ— pounishing of Bauderie Beholde reader how immoderatly M. Iewel sclaundereth vs. Iewel In the same page a fewe lines after M. Harding saith The scriptures vvere falsified and ful of errours Harding The 2. Chapt. What so euer the Manicheis haue said with whom you compare vs we might wel saie the Scriptures haue benne corrupted by your false TranslatioÌ„s into vulgare tongues but that the Scripture it selfe were ful of errours neither I not any Catholique man euer said it These wordes M. Iewel hath caused to be printed in that letter False and sclaunderous reporte in whiche my wordes of the Confutation be set out He noteth in the margent thus M. Harding fol. 220. b. Looke gentle Reader in the said leafe of my Confutation for thereof he meaneth and certainely thou shalt find no suche wordes at al. If I haue either there or elles where vttered these wordes let me neuer haue credite in thy iudgement In deede whereas in that place the Author of the Apologie burdeneth the Catholiques with burning the holy Scriptures and for the same compareth them with wicked king Aza with Antiochus with Maximinus and with Herode moued with iust zele among other thinges thus thereto I saie Why saie you of vs in general that is to saie of the Catholique Churche that we despise hate cast away and burne the holy scriptures Had we not loued and kepte the scriptures how could you and your fellowes haue come by them Had ye not them of vs From the Apostles time to this daie we haue kepte them vnspotted and vndefiled and ye within these fifty yeres haue
that forbad Theafte hath not permitted Robberie but would the whole to be vnderstanded by the parte what so euer thinge of the neighbours is vnlawfully taken awaye verely likewise we ought to vnderstand that vnder the name of Moechia Aduouterie euery vnlawful carnal acte and vse of those partes not allowed by Goddes lawe is forbidden The effecte of this whole discourse is this S. Augustine confesseth the name of that which we cal Simple Fornication not to be founde expressely in the Table of the ten Commaundementes Neuerthelesse he saith that it is to be vnderstanded in the name of Aduouterie which is there expressed and that so it is forbidden vnder that name as also euery vnlawful acte and vse of those partes that serue to the Generation And al this procedeth of like reason as we ought to iudge that Rapina Robberie is forbidden though in that Table it be not expressely named as also euery vnlawful taking awaye and deteining of an other mannes thinges as being vnderstanded in the name of Theafte in that Commaundement only expressed as oftentimes by reason the whole must be vnderstaÌ„ded in the name of a parte Saepe intel ligitur à parte totum For elles we should thinke it lawful to robbe and commit rauine whereas Theafte onely is by expresse terme forbidden wherein we are controlled by reason it selfe without further aduise of Goddes written word Mow iudge good Reader what rewarde M. Iewel is worthy to haue in a wel ordered common welth for suche abusing of S. Augustines name and auctoritie to the Defence and mainteinance of Simple Fornication Certainely the libertie that through this pleasant Gospel the world is now growen vnto considered it was litle neede to teache such Doctrine in open Bookes at these daies A Comparison of Errours with whiche M. Iewel chargeth me and I on the other side charge him The 16. Chapter BIcause Reader M. Iewel to excuse a few errours with which I charged the Authour of the Apologie chargeth me likewise with errours and ouersightes committed in my Confutation and in my first Reioinder that it maie appeare euidently vnto thee who standeth more charged he or I bothe in respecte of the number and also of the weight of the matter reported in the errours I wil here truly and plainely reherse those hainous errours whiche he laieth to my charge and then also I wil laie forth certaine of his errours as they came to hande Certaine I saie for to laie forth so many as by searche I might easily finde it would require the charges of an other booke These then be the great and weighty matters wherein I seeme to M. Iewel worthy of great blame Iewel in the Viewe of his Vntruthes B iij. b. M. Harding maie remember Confut. 4. 6. a. Confut. 312. b. Confut. 47. a. Reioinder fol. 287. a. Confut. 332. a. that he him selfe in steede of the Prophete Osee hath alleged vs the noble Iosue and that by an other like ouersight he hath alleged the 8. booke of Socrates Scholasticus vvhereâ—s Socrates neuer vvrote but seuen M. Harding him selfe in hiâ— Confutation of the Apologie in steede of the 22. of Luke hath printed the 2. of Luke Likevvise in his Reioindre in steede of these vvordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be hath printed and sente vs quite the contrarie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To be shorte M. Harding in this selfe same booke in steede of these vvordes lulled a sleepe by errour hath printed lulled a sheepe Harding Of al these great and dangerous errours I acknowledge but one to be mine which is that by ouersighte I named Iosue in steede of Osee And ô that there were no greater sinne in me for which I ought to crie God Mercie And yet that it is an errour and a faulte too I confesse would God you M. Iewel woulde as readily confesse yours As for the reste you muste quarrel with the Printers seruauntes with whom I am offended not onely for these faultes but also for many mo no lesse then you Were they diligent and true workemenne I perceiue touching this case you should haue litle to say Now let the indifferent Reader compare these my errours or rather this my one errour whiche in so many places you haue obiected vnto me and whiche onely after so long searche you haue founde with a fewe of yours noted out of your late booke intituled The Defence of the Apologie Sure I am for your excuse you can not laie the faulte vpon your Printer nor by any other meanes iustifie them Thus among other infinite Vntruthes you say Iewel Pag. 634. Ye maie remember that tvvo of the principal pillers of yuor Chapter at Trent Petrus a Soto and Catharinus dissented euen there openly and shamefully and that in great pointes of Religion and vvrote the one mightily against the other the one charging the other vvith errour and heresie and could neuer be reconciled Harding Here I must tel you M. Iewel that you affirme more then you are hable to abide by By this also as by other infinite places ye geue your Reader to vnderstande what a sure carde you are to trust vnto Catharinus and Petrus a Soto be lied by M. Ievvel For Catharinus and Petrus a Soto were neuer together at the Councel of Trent as any doers there muche lesse as principal pillers Yea Catharinus was dead ten yeres before Petrus a Soto came to the Councel as one to haue any doing there For Catharinus died Anno 1552. and Petrus a Soto came to the Councel Anno 1562. Sixtus Senensis in Bibliotheca sancta lib. 4. Wherefore I maruel that you are not ashamed so precisely to affirme an open and shameful vntruth For if they were not at the Councel together how could they dissent there openly and shamefully as you terme it Hereunto you adde an other great Vntruth that they wrote mightely the one against the other For I am wel assured you can not proue that euer they wrote the one against the other at al. Albeit I wil not saie but that Petrus a Soto peraduenture doth disallowe some certaine erroneous opinion of the others in some parte of his workes That you saie they could neuer be reconcilied is most false in your meaning Howbeit in a contrary sense it maie be truely said For Reconciliation presupposeth a falling out But where there was neuer falling out as betwen them there was not as farre as it can appeare by their writinges there could not be any Reconciliation To like effecte and with as litle truthe you speake of them bothe Pagin 350. In deede some such thing there was betwen Dominicus a Soto and Catharinus Albeit their Dissension was not so outragious as you would haue it seeme I merueile that you should so much and so often after one sorte be ouerseen especially if you haue read their bookes as you pretend or elles if you haue read Illyricus de Sectis with stuffe out of whose dragges you haue somewhat enlarged your
A DETECTION OF SVNDRIE FOVLE ERROVRS LIES SCLAVNDERS CORRVPTIONS AND OTHER false dealinges touching Doctrine and other matters vttered and practized by M. Iewel in a Booke lately by him set foorth entituled A Defence of the Apologie c. By Thomas Harding Doctor of Diuinitie Psalm 4. Filij hominum vsquequo graui corde vt quid diligitis vanitatem quaeritis Mendacium O ye sonnes of menne how long wil ye be dul harted what meane ye thus to be in loue with Vanitie and to seeke after Lying RESPICITE VOLATILIA COELI ET PVLLOS CORVORVM IF LOVANII Apud Ioannem Foulerum Anno 1568. CVM PRIVILEGIO REgiae Maiestatis Priuilegio concessum est Thomaâ— Hardingo Sacra Theologia Professori vt Librum inscriptum A Detection of sundrie foule errours lies sclaunders c. per Typographum aliquem Iuratum imprimere ac impunè distrahere liceat Datum Bruxellis 24. Maij. Anno 1568. Subsig Vander A A. The Preface to the Reader AT the first comming of this Treatie to mens handes what saith one so smal a Booke for answer to so great a Volume Shal this Detection conteining litle aboue one hundred streetes of Paper matche the Defence that is almost foure hundred sheetes What meaneth D. Harding Is he not hable to confute M. Iewel Or is he loth to take paines To this I answer How hable I am to confute what so euer M. Iewel hath written not onely in his late pretensed Defence but also in his Replie or in the Apologie whereof at leaste he is thought to haue benne the penneman let it be iudged by the learned this wil I boldly saie if he haue no better meane to make his partie good then hitherto he hath vsed write he what him liste it shal be no great praise to any man to haue confuted him As it had benne smal glorie for valiant Achilles to haue beaten Thersites whom Homere describeth ready of his tongue and a coward of his handes so among the skilful Diuines he may not looke to winne great coÌ„mendation of learning who confuteth M. Iewelles writinges For certainely good Reader if thou haue but a meane insight in these Controuersies nowe so much disputed of betwixte the Protestantes and vs and wilt bestowe some good labour about the exacte trial of the thinges he hath written thou shalt easily espie the feeblenesse of his side Thou shalt finde that he perfourmeth more in shewe then in acte that commonly he maketh vp in Tale where he lacketh of Weight that with multitude of wordes he couerâ—th thâ— pâ—nurâ—â— of Râ—â—â—â—â— that with huge numbers of Doctours sainges he setteth foorth the barrennesse of substantial Prouâ—â—â— aâ— mâ—ny do their thinne Hippes with stufte Hosen and their solender Armes with bombast Sleeues This being so whereas the dewe discussion of these pointes in controuersie descendeth vnto the bottom of thinges and swimmeth not aboue vpon the fome of wordes euery man can soone conceiue howe meane learning may suffice to confute such a Writer If therefore I make profession of sufficient habilitie in this case there is no cause why I should be reprehended as one that attributeth more vnto him selfe then male seeme to stand with modestie This muche being said for proufe of habilitie some perhappes would beare what I haue to saie for my selfe that I am not lothe to take paines For he that is hable to doo a good and profitable worke and refuseth the labour to doo it seemeth to be gilty of slâ—wth True it is to refel al that M. Iewel hath written or rather gathered together out of others for in deedâ— he doth nothing els in manner but laie together heâ—pes of other mennes sayinges against the Catholique Churche and against the Catholique Religion it were greate paine By iudgement bothe of Cicero and Quintilian the labour of writing is accompted very greate And the Scripture saith Eccles 12. Faciendi plures libros nullus est finis frequénsque meditatio carnis afflictio est There is no ende of making moe Bookes and the often breaking of a mannes braines about suche studie is a greate pounishment to the bodie If any doubte hereof let him set him selfe a worke earnestly about writing in suche sorte as I speake of and he shal saie as I doo I doubte not And therefore it behoueth them that geue them selues to writing to haue not onely health but also good strength of bodie Al this M. Iewel knewe right wel And for that very cause when he sawe that smal bookes would fone be answered as it appeared by my Answer made to his Chalenge and by my Confutation of the Apologie he thought it better policie or it was so put in his head by the aduise of his brethren to goe an other waie to worke that is to saie to replie vpon me and to make his Defence with huge Volumes that either a long time should passe before an answere could be returned hoping that in the meane while his Gospel should take too deepe a roote afterward to be pluckt vp out of the Readers haâ—tâ—s by any what so euer booke that should come to their handes or that I should be wearied and worne out with the labour of answering and perhappes die before I came to the ende or that the very hugenesse of the bookes should fraie me from the enterprise of making aâ—swer In this case it seemed to mee best neither by taking vpon me to answere the whole Bookes and euery parcel of them to geue our Aduersaries the aduantage of the time not to shorten my life by immoderate paines emploied to no great profite nor by my silence and by open geuing ouer the whole as it were by fleeing out of the fielde to leaue them vnto their Triumphe but by answering the pointes of greatest importance to set forth a sufficient Defence of the truth for staying of the doubteful to confirme them in the true doctrine and thereby to geue out a cleere euidence what truthe is to be looked for in the reste of his superfluous stuffe sith he hath shewed him selfe so vntrue a dealer in the chiefe matters Thus haue I doâ—ne not yeelding to slewth but moued with good aduise noâ— as being loth to take paines and to susteine a long trauaile but as one who the state of the present time considered and the vncertaintie of thinges to come mistrusted thought it better to doo some good out of hande though it were of losse labour then by long differring whiles a larger Volume were intended to suffer to the losse of many soules so muche false doctrine to grow in credite As touching the Replie what hath benne donne to those that reade our bookes it is not vnknowen What so euer he had to bring against the Râ—â—â—â—resâ—nce against the Sacrifice of the Bodie and bloude of Christâ— against the Masse whereat the Priest receiueth the Communion without other companie receiuing sacramentally with him in the same place against the Churche Sâ—â—â—ice in a learned tongue against the anciâ—â—◠〈◊〉 of
holy Images in Churches and against the prâ—â—acie of his Successour to whom louing Christ more then the reste of the Apostles Iohan. 21. it was specially said feede my sheepâ— whiche are the weightiest and chiefe among al the Articles of his Chaleâ—ge and whereof al the restâ— in manner doo depende Al this is fully confuted by M. D. Sandeâ— by M. Doâ—man by M. Stapleton and by mee As for his Sophistrie and manifolde Arte wherewith he enuâ—igleth the vnlearned muche like to that by which Mountebanckes gete their lyuing and sundrie craftie false and absurde practises M. Rastel hath truly diligently and wittily detected them in three bookes written to that purpose in whiche by the very Title of eche booke he geueth al menne warning to beware of M. Iewel When I considered these chiefe and most special Articles of the Replie so wel and sufficiently confuted and the rest of that Volume to conteine nothing els but needelesse heapes of diuers Writers sayinges either true and of vs confessed or fowly falsified and corrupted and wrested to a sense quite contrarie to the authours meaning or otherwise not perteining to the proufe of any thing by the Catholiques denied or to the disproufe of any thing by them affirmed I thought I might doo wel to laie a side the Replie for a time and to go in hande with some answer to the pretensed Defence of the Apologie Here what should I doo Many as I vnderstand haue wisshed that I made a ful answer to the whole and to euery parcel of it and for the better perfourmance thereof they would allow me a yere or two more This desire requireth M. Iewels great Volume to be printed againe that is to saie the Apologie my Confutation and the texte of the Defence and further so muche of my Confutation to be added as in printing his booke of set purpose he hath caused to be cut of from the reste and to be suppressed to the intent a great parte of the best proufes brought against him should not be seene in his booke which being added would amounte to one good parte the whole Confutation being diuided into three This ought to be done of necessitie if an answer to the whole were to be made For whereâ—â— al my Treatie must rise vpon the wordes of the Apologie and of my Confutation and of the Defence how should it be vnderstanded how iustly I impugne the Apologie and the Defence and mainteine my Confutation onlesse the places were laid forth before the Readers eies The booke then of the Defence being alreadie so great The chiefe pointes of the DefeÌ„ce being ansvvered for vvhat causes a ful ansvver to the reste vvas thought not necessarie as it is by that time a iuste answer should be added vnto it euery man that hath any iudgement in these thinges maie soone conceiue of what an huge quantitie my new printed Volume would be In deed were euery idle point answered and treated of at ful it would seeme to matche yea farre to ouermatche Foxes Huge Booke of his false Martyrs Verely to saie what reasonably I maiâ— saie neither can I in three yeres doo the worke of seuen yeres nor with a fewe Dallers defraie the charges of foure or fiue hundred poundes nor can I finde in my Conscience to bring the weake into danger by setting out suche an heretical booke bicause it is not possible but that among so many heresies and erroneous pointes some wil escape my penne vnrefelled were I neuer so diligent Nor thinke I it good and profitable in that vnfruitful trauaile to spende so great a parte of my later yeres Vnfruitful I meane bicause I shal be driuen for the most parte to bestow paines about light scoffes Cauilles wranglinges and vaine trifles worthy to be contemned rather then to be answered Briefly neither haue I liste to set out so huge a Volume which I beleeue very fewe would bye I haue therfore thought vpon an other waie wherein I hope to doo more good to others sure I am that to my selfe I shal doo lesse hinderance in respecte of time and health and neuerthelesse perfourme that whiche in this case is chiefly requisite Whereas then M. Iewelles pretensed Defence maie be reduced vnto three principal Headdes from whence The Summe of the Defence as from their springes the streames of the whole Booke doo runne whiche are 1 a desire to disgrace me 2 an ernest auouching of his new false doctrines in condemnation of the Catholique Faith and of the whole state of Ancient Religion 3 the reproufe of Priestes Bishoppes Cardinalles and the Popes manners in this Treatie I haue said somewhat in Defence of my selfe as it was behooful I should the most labour I haue emploied to defende the receiued doctrine of the Catholike Faith which he hath laboured much to impugne With the liues and manners of the Clergie I meddle litle Menne be menne and wherein they haue donne euil I accoumpt them worthy of reproufe no lesse then he Howbeit what so euer he bringeth al is not the Gospel that in this point procedeth from his penne and malice could neuer yet learne to saie wel Touching bothe doctrine and manners if it shal please God to geue our Countrie grace to imbrace that onely doctrine whiche is true and Catholique that is to saie whiche we defende against the Nouelties and Heresies of our time so busily by M. Iewel and by them of that side with al diligence force and policie set forth and commended to the people concerning order of life and manners their pleasant Gospel breedeth suche libertie loosenesse and lewdnes among them that receiue it that we doubte not but it shal easily to al appeare that when the Catholiques whom they cal Papistes liued worst the time brought forth moe felowes of Angelles then their time notwithstanding the great number they crake of bringeth forth felowes of honest menne when so euer they liue best if it maie be truely said that at any time they liue wel who haue cut them selues from that bodie of Christe into the members whereof onely the grace of God is deriued The Summe and order of this Treatie If then thou be desirours Christian Reader to vnderstande the order and purporte of this Treatie made for answer to the Defence for the present time thus it is First in defence of my selfe I haue shewed how vntruly and sclaunderously M. Iewel hath burdened me with certaine hateful Crimes in his Epistle to the Queenes Maiestie The Vntruthe of these pointes I haue thought good plainely to laie before the Readers eies by conference of the places in my Confutation whence he tooke the occasions of his sclaunders as he pretendeth by the quotations noted in the Margent Nexte whereas he findeth him selfe muche agreeued with the sharpnesse of my vtterance vsed in my Confutation and in my first Reioinder and to make credite thereof hath as it were into a Table cowched together a large heape of sharpe wordes pretended by
Reader how he keepeth him selfe a luffe of from the point with what stuffe he filleth certaine leaues of his Booke how he starreth from Doctour to Doctour how he confoundeth him selfe and the Reader and though he bring neuer so much out of other Writers yet commeth not at al to the point directly First Pag. 165. he laboureth to discredite the holy Ancient Fathers as menne that haue not dealte indifferently herein but haue gonne to farre either in the auancing of Virginitie or in the disgracing of lawful Matrimonie Before he entreth his Allegations whereof that whole Treatie standeth he putteth foorth twoo sayinges the one of Origen the other of S. Hierome in reproufe of them that condemned Matrimonie And yet euen there immediatly after he allegeth them both for condemners of Matrimonie Then he laith foorth the stoare of his Allegations whereby he would haue it appeare Tertulliā alleged by M. Ievvel against the Churche in that for vvhiche he is condēned of the Churche that certaine Ancient Writers had an euil opinion of Matrimonie There he allegeth two sayinges of Tertullian in exhortatione ad castitatem whiche Booke he wrote against the Churche as S. Hierome saith and therefore it is condemned of the Churche for whiche cause he should not haue alleged him then twoo sayinges out of the Authour of the imperfite worke vppon S. Matthew vnder the name of S. Chrysostome which also is a worke ful of heresies Item certaine sayinges out of S. Hierome writing against Iouinian and Heluidius Againe sayinges out of Athenagoras S. Hierome Gregorie Nazianzen and Origen by whiche he beareth the Reader in hande they haue condemned the seconde Marriages of Widowers and Widowes After this he reckeneth vp so manie Priestes Pag. 166. and Bishops as he hath read of to haue benne married menne who in deede were married before they receiued holy Orders and not otherwise There Palea Palea that is to say the Chaffe that is set out in Gratian concerning Priestes and Bishops that were many Popes Fathers a very fonde fabulous tale is admitted to the place of a great Doctor yet by him much falsified Pag. 167. and altered from that he found in Gratians booke There also beside the report of Aeneas Syluius whiche him selfe recanted and of Polydore Vergil a man of our time and in these matters of smal credite he sticketh not to praie helpe of one Fabian a late seely Chronicler of London and with his woorshipful testimonie forsooth would faine prooue his mater that is to saie with a maine Lie that Bishoppes and Priestes lyued a thousand yeres together with their Wiues no lawe being to the contrarie Nowe were al these thinges true according to the purporte of M. Iewelles doctrine as for the more parte they are very false and the Doctours by him corrupted and very vntruly reported what should they make for his purpose I meane for the point it selfe of this Controuersie which is that it is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie or after holy Orders receiued For I trow M. Iewel wil not vse this simple kind of Logique Certaine ancient Writers condemned Matrimonie which is vtterly false in respecte of al others by M Iewel here named excepte Tertullian that condemned the seconde Marriages whom the Churche for the same reiecteth Item certaine learned and holy menne in the Primitiue Churche were made Priestes and Bisshoppes after they had benne married Ergo it is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie and after holy Orders taken As this reason is fonde and litle worth so al the sayinges of Writers whiche he hath heaped together hitherto serue him to no purpose but to increase the bulke of his Booke After al this feeling him selfe pressed with the force of the Vowe which being aduisedly made is of necessitie to be performed as I prooued in my Confutation to keepe him selfe stil a luffe of from the point of the Question he taketh a newe waie saying that the Priestes in England were neuer Votaries Touching this matter whether the Priestes of England were Votaries or no F◠290. ◠I referre the Reader vnto the first Chapter of the fifth booke of this Treatie Howsoeuer it be by this answer M. Iewel fleeth from the point as farre as he fled before For the Question is whether Priestes in general that haue made a Vowe of Chastitie maie marrie and he answereth that Priestes of England be not Votaries Which answer serueth as aptly in this case as if a question being demaūded of him whether Heretikes are to be burned he would answer we the Superintendentes of England and our Ministers be no heretiques From this he conueigheth him selfe to certaine common places and bringeth in a Huge number of Doctours sayinges tending to this meaning in effect that Chastitie is hard to keepe that it is the gifte of God that God geueth it not to al that it is to be counselled but not commaunded that a man consider wel of what strength he is and if he see him selfe not hable to perfourme the preceptes of Virginitie that rather then he fal into the dungeon of deadly sinne he take a wife and vse the remedie ordeined against incontinencie Al which sayinges we graunt be true and are to be vnderstanded of them whiche be free and haue not bounde them selues by deliberate Vowe to conteine To be shorte it were a very tedious thing here to reherse how he ronneth from Doctour to Doctour how he craueth stuffing of the Canonistes and Schoolemen whom God wote he litle esteemeth how he writeth out their sentences and therewith filleth vp his Booke As for the ancient Doctours sayinges that folow after al this they are spoken some against the perfourmance of wicked Vowes some serue for admonition that certaine maie be suffred to marrie who hauing made onely a simple Vowe either can not or wil not conteine and that the Marriages of suche personnes ought to stand for good and not to be dissolued some importe rebuke of filthy life and exhortation to Chastitie some be written against them that either vtterly condemned the state of Matrimonie or willed Priestes and Deacons in the Primitiue Churche to be compelled to forsake the companie of their lawful Wiues whiche they had married before they receiued holy Orders Thus he writeth out other mennes sayinges without order or discretiō skippeth from one matter to an other and emptieth as it were the stoare of his Notebookes into this Defence and when he hath shuffled in al he proueth nothing directly but onely bringeth the Reader to a Confusion and commeth not at al to the discussion of the point that we staie vpon whiche in this matter of Priestes Marriages is that to marrie it is not lawful after deliberate Vowe of chastitie made nor after holy Orders receiued What colourable argumentes or testimonies he bringeth to proue the affirmatiue Infrà lib. 5 Cap. 2 in this Treatie Reader thou shalt see them cleerely confuted Likewise to shew
Priestes marriages Lib. 5. Cap. 1. Fol. 302. Speaking against the number of the seuen Sacramentes of the Churche Defence 213. Apocal. 5.8.7.1 to bring the Catholique Doctrine in contempte thus he saith As for the reasons that they of M. Hardinges side haue brought vs for proufe hereof they are too childish to be remembred For thus they saie The Booke in the Apocalyps hath seuen seales The seuen Angels there haue seuen Trumpettes Christ hath in his right hande seuen starres Christe walketh in the middes of seuen golden Candlestickes Zacha. 3. Exod. 37. Zacharie saw seuen eies vpon a stone There were seuen Candelstickes in the Tabernacle Ergo saie they there must needes be iuste seuen Sacramentes in the Churche of God If this were true In Compendio Theologiae wee might be somewhat ashamed of our Doctours I graunte Neither can this Reason seeme but weake and feeble But what if al this be false Then are our Doctours not touched then maie their reasons be thought substantial and M. Iewel a vaine Iangler that thus stuffeth his greate Booke with Lies Peruse the place Reader In CoÌ„pendio Theologia lib. 6. cap. 5. that by his quotation he directeth thee vnto and thou shalt finde him like him selfe as he is euery where a false Minister For Compendium Theologiae whiche he allegeth hath farre otherwise It saith not there muste needes be iuste seuen Sacramentes in the Churche bicause seuen Seales seuen Trumpettes seuen Starres seuen Candlestickes seuen Eies be thus spoken of in the Scripture but it saith expressely Sacramenta figurata sunt in septem Signaculis The Sacramentes were figured or foresignified in the seuen Seales in the seuen Starres c. That the number of those thinges is made a reason or cause of the number of the Sacramentes it is M. Iewels Lie it is not the saying of him that wrote Compendium Defence 361. 8 Augustine fouly and dangerously falfied by M. Ievvel Hauing taken vpon him to proue that the Doctours of the Canon Lawe haue taught the people that Fornication betwen Singlefolke is no sinne among a huge heape of sayinges taken out of writers of sundrie sortes whereof not so much as one affirmeth it he bringeth in this saying pretending it to be S. Augustine in Quaestion in Exod. quaest 20. Illa Fornicatio quam faciunt qui vxores non habent cum foeminis quae viros non habent an prohibita inueniri possit ignoro That kinde of Fornication which Single menne commit with single womenne whether it be forbidden or no I can not tel By this sentence as it is here set forth S. Augustine is set to schoole and made to confesse whiche he would neuer haue confessed whiles he liued that he could not tel whether Fornication that is committed betwene single folcke were forbidden or no whereby he should seeme to geue great libertie to single personnes to folow the filthy lustes of their flesh And here which is to be noted whereas the reste of the sentence is printed in the smal letter in which the Doctours testimonies be coÌ„monly set out these wordes in Latine Fornicatio an prohibita inueniri possit ignoro and these English wordes Fornication whether it be forbidden or no I can not tel are printed in a farre greater letter that they should readily appeare to the eie and be readde of al menne as if he were desirous as the Deuil him selfe is that al were persuaded that Fornication among single persons were no sinne Which doctrine there and in certaine other places of that Booke by sundrie colourable sayinges of Writers he seemeth to labour to persuade But the true saying of S. Augustine and the meaning of the same is farre otherwise For thus he saith not in Quaest in Exod. quaest 20. as the place by M. Iewel is falsly quoted but in Quaestionum super Exodum lib. 2. quaest 71. Sed si non omnis Fornicatio etiam Moechia dici potest vbi sit in Decalogo prohibita illa fornicatio quam faciunt viri qui vxores non habent cum foeminis quae maritos non habent vtrum inueniri possit ignoro As muche to saie But if it be so that al Fornication maie not be called also Moechia Aduouterie where that Fornication which menne commit that haue no wiues with womenne that haue no husbandes is forbidden in the Table of the ten Commaundementes whether it maie be founde or no I can not tel S. Augustine saith not simply he knew not whether simple Fornication were forbidden or no he knewe wel it was forbidden But if it were once denied that al Fornication were signified by the woorde and name of Moechia whiche properly is Aduouterie which worde is expressed in the ten Commaundementes the contrarie whereof he prooueth in that place very learnedly in this case and not otherwise he acknowlegeth him selfe not to knowe where the Fornication that is committed betwen single personnes maie be found forbidden where not generally but in Decalogo in the ten Commaundementes And this is the only point wherein S. Augustine confesseth his ignorance Howbeit in the same place he sheweth that vnder the name of Moechia al manner Fornication is comprised and that therefore in the tenne Commaundementes it is forbidden no lesse then Aduoutâ—riâ— as I haue at large declared in this Treatie Lib. 5. Cap. 15. where M. Iewels falsehood is further detected But what meane I to laie foorth places by M. Iewel falsified and corrupted If I woulde make profession thereof I ought to laie foorth his whole booke new printed For of such stuffe the whole consisteth One place bicause therein he thought to touche mine honestie I can not let passe Thus it is Consider Reader hovv far suche a false forger is to be trusted Hauing in my Confutation reprooued the Lady A.B. for turning these wordes out of Fulgentius formam serui and formam Dei asmuch to say the fourme of a feruaunt and the fourme of God into Manhed and Godhed wherby a false meaning is conueighed in against the true presence of Christes bodie in the most blessed Sacrament of the Aulter least I should haue seemed ouer sharpe in rebuking a woman whereas in deede for a Doctor of Diuinitie to confute a woman I thought it no great Conquest after certaine other wordes of reprouse Confutation Fol. 41.2 thus I say Whether I maie without breache of courtesie charge her with so heinous a crime or no I doubte Perhappes as shee passeth the bondes of womanlie state in presuming to medle so farre in these perillouse matters c so maie I seeme to forgete courtesie thus roughly to blame so softe a creature Defence fol. 89. Nowe commeth me in this Master of Defence and for the loue of his good Ladie laieth busily about him driueth very fiercely at me though his strokes light not on me and like a kinde harted Louer saieth very much in her praise and not a litle to my dispraise that shee forsooth is a Ladie of
great learning vertue and grauitie that al that I haue sent ouer are but toyes and trifles by like bicause I printe not my Bookes in Folio as he dooth that shee is ful of wisedome and I ful of follie There he promiseth in great sooth that he wil not tel me how lewdly I haue demeaned my selfe towardes her And what is that Nay he wil not tel it me ye may beleue him bicause it wil sound to my great shame Yet out it must the man is taken with suche a lust And bicause he was lothe it should come to the knowlege of many thus forthwith he telleth it me in a printed booke I beseeche you saith he ful courteouslie cal your wordes againe to minde if you can without blusshing Handle foisted in by M Ievvel for Blame So roughlie to handle so softe a Creature where he hath changed my honest worde Blame into his owne worde Handle of filthie imagination This Phrase of speache your very frends haue muche misliked and as it is in dede so in plaine wordes they cal it Ruffianrie c. The whole matter thus he concludeth with like truth as he beganne But this fault as I haue said I wil dissemble To al this what shal I saie good Reader God be thanked that M. Iewel who is so desirous to tel that of me whereof I should be ashamed hath nothing to tel but a Lie forged by his owne filthie imagination whereof he must needes be ashamed if he haue any sparke of honest nature in him So roughlie to handle so softe a creature be not my woordes If it be Ruffianrie so to speake as he saieth that in deede it is then is this Superintendent of Sarisburie become a Ruffian For he speaketh so I spake it not Thus roughly to blame so soft◠a creature whether it might not in that place be honestly spoken I reporte me to al that be honest Bicause he knew him selfe he had made this apparent aduantage against me by his false forgerie foisting in the worde Handle in place of the word Blame of purpose that his impudent falshed might not be espied he least out of his Booke xxvij lines of my Confutation where the wordes be with which I reproue the Lady for her false Translation if it were hers and not an others set forth in her name But my very frendes haue muche misliked this Phrase of speache saith M. Iewel I maruell how they could mislike it before it was euer written In deede bothe my frendes and his frendes too mislike this Phrase as he hath forged it very much I doubte not And as for his frendes I dare saie they are ashamed of him and wish he had not discredited his ministerly Diuinitie with suche Ruffianly humanitie or rather inhumanitie For a ful answer hereto see in this Treatie Lib. 3. cap. 2. Fol. 120. As for the Lady that translated the Apologie into English in whose quarrel this vnhonest and vncleane lewdnesse hath by this Champion ben practized I wish her no woorse but that shee tel M. Iewel when shee meeteth with him nexte that though shee were desirours bothe of Praise and also of reuenge yet shee had rather remaine vnpraised and vnrevenged then of suche a false handler to be praised and with such open lying to be revenged Thus Reader by Viewe of these fewe places noted out of the whole heape thou maist conceiue with what manner stuffe M. Iewel hath filled vp that huge Booke Suche as these are after the same rate the more parte of the reste is Wherefore al menne maie see how good cause they haue to hier their Promotours and Waiters to lie in waite for our Bookes at the Portes and Creekes and with great extremitie to pounish al menne who are founde to haue them For by that meane they hope to winne a long time before their guile and falshode be made open to al the worlde Seeing then among al that huge heape so litle can be founde whereby he maie seeme to go directly to the pointes that be in Controuersie and presently treated of seeing where he geueth out certaine shadowes as it were of proufes if the same be duely examined they be tried corrupted and falsified by one vntrue meane or other and seeing the confutation of al that is to be confuted must be made by repeating and laying forth againe the testimonies truly whiche he allegeth falsly by shewing where he clippeth of the Doctours wordes where he addeth wordes of his owne where he leaueth out the beginning or the ende of Sentences where he vseth false translation where he conceeleth and dissembleth the Circumstance of the places and foloweth the bare sounde of wordes without farther view of the Writers intent where he maketh false exchange of wordes as he is now taken in the manner changing Blame a worde of chaste meaning into Handle a worde of vnchaste imagination seing I saie this is the meane and waie whereby the Confutation of the pretensed Defence must be wrought I leaue vnto the iudgement of those who can iudge of these thinges what a long and tedious worke it would be and how litle profite would redounde thereof if I should refute his whole Booke This being wel considered specially whereas also a long time is required to the finishing of suche a worke great charges are to be emploied in printing and menne at these daies soone waxe wearie and feele lothsomnes in reading long Treaties I thought I should doo more cōueniently if I confuted the chiefe pointes of Doctrine then if I bestowed my labour about the confutation of the whole whiche for the most parte consisteth of light and vaine trifles not worth the reading And to saie the truthe what credite is he worthy to beare in the reste that in the chiefe pointes is proued to haue dealte so vntruly If I truly charge M. Iewel with thertie fortie fiftie yea with a hundred great and notorious Lies and sufficiently confute the same shal I not seeme to haue proued him a Lier and a false dealer in these causes excepted I confute him in a thousand eleuen or twelue hundred mo If the case be so then is the aduantage in the multitude of Lies and he is farthest from being confuted who maketh most Lies and specially he that maketh so many as the defender of the truth shal not haue leisure to trie them Lies It is wel knowen how muche easier it is to write Lies then to confute Lies A Lie is vttered in a worde or two the poison of an hainous Heresie is spet forth in a line or two Nor this nor that perhappes can wel and sufficiently be confuted so as it be made plaine vnto the vnlearned in foure or fiue leaues Least I should seeme to saie nothing in his commendation and not to acknowlege his worthiest qualities I graunt he is furnished with Rhetorie with humaine letters with Eloquence with a mearie wit and that he hath a readie grace in skoffing yea that he is hable to
Foxe hath raked together into that Donghil of his stincking Martyrs So then I trust good Reader this my shorter but more fruiteful trauaile shal wel content thee In which I haue defended and iustified the chiefe matters of the Catholique doctrine by M. Iewel impugned and therewith ouerthrowen his weake Defence In sundrie other pointes also whiche depende of Doctrine I haue detected his great and manifolde Vntruthes Neither haue I ioined issue with him in any point wherein I haue not sufficiently proued him either deceiued or a deceiuer Wherein as Ignorance maie stande him in some excuse for the one so muste he beare the gilte of malice for the other Eche pointe here is not handled with like diligence and like exactenesse I graunt for the matter hath not so required Yet where I haue benne least disposed to take paines and founde my selfe most weary in answering his friuolous Obiections thou shalt finde the truthe sufficiently mainteined and M. Iewel fully refuted If anywhere thou espie defecte or insufficiencie impute the blame to me If in any parte I shal seeme to haue donne wel take thou the profite geue God the praise Thomas Harding A DETECTION OFVNTRVTHES IN M. IEWELS EPISTLE TO THE QVENE THE FIRST BOOKE How vntruly and how slaunderously M. Iewel hath charged his Aduersarie with certaine hateful crimes in his Epistle to the Quenes Maiestie set before his pretensed Defence of the Apologie The First Chapter WHEREAS M. Iewel in the Epistle to the Queenes Maiestie set before his pretensed Defence of the Apologie chargeth me with diuers pointes whereby bothe to discredite the Catholique Doctrine and to stirre her Maiestie to indignation against me and other learned menne here who haue confuted his manifold erroures and detected sundrie his false partes wherewith dangerously he seduceth her Maiesties Subiectes least bothe I by my silence should seeme to acknowledge my selfe gilty of the thinges he chargeth me with and least others might be induced to beleeue him thinking him not to be so voide of dew reuerence and shame as so farre to abuse her Maiesties credulitie in these matters who hath no leisure or listeth not to examine the same I haue thought it conuenient and necessarie before I come to any parte of his directe answer to my Confutation of the Apologie to cleare my selfe of what so euer he imputeth vnto me in that Epistle and to shewe how al that he hath written against me in the same is vtterly false and sclaunderous And bicause I cannot better and in plainer wise performe it then by laying forth as it were the booke where eche thing is said whereof he taketh holde and by reporting myne owne sayinges which he hath falsified and vntruly reported Let it not seeme strange nor be lothesom vnto thee good Reader that being driuen vnto it by this necessitie I bring forth againe vnto thee certaine places before written and conteined in my former Treaties How lothsom soeuer it be thee to reade and mee to repeate againe certaine thinges before vttered verely it is the chiefe waie by whiche in this case the truthe maie clearely be opened Thus then entreth M. Iewel his accusation against me M. Iewel in the epistle to the Quene pag. 2. ad finem M. Harding doubteth not to seeke quarelles against vs euen in that vve mainteine 1 The Baptisme of Christian Infantes 2 The proceeding and 3 Godhed of the Holy Ghoste 4 The Faith of the holy and glorious Trinitie and 5 the General and Catholique profession of the Common Creede Harding To confute errours and to declare the Truthe is not to seeke Quarelles Neither ought he to be called a Quareller who of two waies sheweth whiche is the better Touching these fiue pointes First I finde no faulte with M. Iewel nor with his felowes for that they mainteine the Baptisme of Infantes For therein I hold with them The Baptisme of infantes no where reproued To my remembrance I speake not of it of purpose in my whole booke of the Confutation nor in my Reioindre only where I proue that certaine great and necessarie pointes are to be beleeued which be not expressed in the holy Scriptures In the defence pag. 191. Cōfutatiō fol. 84. a. bicause these Ministers in their Apologie saie that al thinges needful for our saluation are abundantly and fully comprehended in the Scriptures among sundrie other thinges whiche I demaunde to be shewed vs in the Scriptures I aske where in al the Bible they finde that Infantes ought to be Baptized And wel that question might I demaunde for proufe of that I intended in that place neither can it be founde expressely commaunded or spoken of I am wel assured Wherefore whiles M. Iewel accuseth me to the Queenes Maiestie of seeking Quarelles against him in this point he sheweth vs in him selfe a perfite paterne of a Quareller If I should here appose him in his owne wordes and aske him Baptisme of Christian Infantes what he meaneth by mainteining the Baptisme of Christian Infantes I thinke rather he would saie I were a seeker of Quarelles Yet would I faine heare what he would answere For what Is he of the opinion that suche Infantes as be borne of Christian Parentes be Christians before they be baptized If they be Christians what neede they to be Christened If they haue neede to be Christened why doth he cal them before Baptisme receiued Christian Infantes Is any Man Woman or Child to be called a Christian before he be Christened Latet anguis in herba There lieth a Pad in the strawe Perhappes he thinketh it is not yet time to spette out the poison of that heresie whiche it semeth he hath suckt out of Caluin against the necessitie of Baptisme of Infantes whose parentes be faithful This point I touched in my Confutation of the Apologie Fol. 67. b. Neither durst M. Iewel yet to be plaine when he commeth to that place in his Defence where he had good cause to treate fully of it and to deliuer the worlde from that Suspicion worthily conceiued and to resolue vs whether he thinke Baptisme of Christian Parentes Children to be necessarie or no. Verely by saying that by Goddes Free Election they be pure Ievvel in the Defence Pag. 250. and holy and by allowing al that Caluine saith thereof he geueth out a secrete signification his meaning to be that in them Baptisme is not vtterly necessarie These mennes Doctrine if I be not deceiued tendeth to this issue that at length Baptisme shal be nothing els but a Signe marke badge or recognizance of a Christian Whereof it must folowe that as a man maie be a Souldiour a Seruing man or a Reteiner to a Noble man though he lacke his Captaines or his Masters Badge or Recognizance likewise so many as be borne of Christian Parentes be also Christians though they neuer receiue Baptisme By the Premisses of these mennes Doctrines we haue iuste cause to thinke that at length they wil teache that the very Signes
man knoweth not what is meant by this words Apostata it may here be said that Apostata is he that forsaketh either the faith whiche in Baptisme he promised to keepe or that Rule and Order of Religious life whiche by solemne vow and open protestation at his entrie into Religion he promised to leade his life in Of the first sorte Iulianus that wicked Emperour and Porphyrius are examples So are the great Soldans Mammaluches and many of the great Turkes Ianizaires Of the second sorte be suche Moonkes and Friers and al other whatsoeuer Religious that foresake their habite willingly departe out of their Cloister and returne vnto the order of secular personnes Of whiche sorte there be mo seene abroad in the world at these daies then euer were in our Forefathers time If I cal these Apostates I cal them by that common name by whiche al the worlde hath euer called them And therefore the offence is very smal if it be any at al. Verely it is no greater then to cal them Theeues that for Theafte be hanged at Tyborn As touching the other terme Loose Loose whereas sithence the Apostles time vppon Deuotion many bereued them selues of their owne libertie and for Gods sake bounde them selues by solemne Vow to a straight and hard order of life and this sweete Gospel of yours setteth suche at libertie teacheth them to breake their promise made to God to caste of the yoke of Chastitie and to solace them selues with their Yokefellowes for so they cal their Strompettes to forsake the Vowe of Voluntarie Pouertie and to enioye al the worldlywelth they can procure and to shake of the yoke of al Obedience and to be vnder no rule but the rule of this Gospel that is to say to keepe what rule they liste this being so what great sinne was it to cal them Loose Speake we wel when of brute beastes breaking out of a pounde stable ropes fetters chaines or from the bridle we say they are brokeâ—â—â—ose 〈…〉 â—e accompâ—â—d il speache 〈◊〉 we say of Mâ—nâ—â—â— â—nd â—riers that â—oÌ„ne out or their Cloisters take Qâ—eanes vnder the name of holy wedlocke breake al vowes and al order that they be loose What bandes be stronger to binde man with al before God and in conscience then voluntarie Promises then Othes then solemne Vowes Who so euer maketh no conscience to breake these bandes if he be not a Loose man I know not whom we may cal a loose man And if such a one be a Loose man why may he not be so called specially that others may so the rather be fraid from the like contempte of God The founder of your Gospel Martin Luther was an Austen Frier neuerthelesse he married the waÌ„ton NuÌ„ne of Nymick in Saxonie Peter Martyr your great Rabbin was a Regular Chanon of the Order of S. Augustine He married at Strasburg Dame Katerine a loose Nunne Peter Martyr and dame Katerine the NuÌ„ne his vvife Oecolam padius Bucer a Dominican Pellican a FranciscaÌ„ Castalio a Carthusian Hooper Barlovv DounhaÌ„ Skory Barkley that ranne out of her Cloister at Metz in Lorraine Shal it be an vnciuile parte to cal them loose Apostates The Birgittine frier Oecolampadius the Patriarke of your felowes the Sacramentaries brake his vowe fled from his Religion married a wife saue the honour of true wedlock so did Bucer ablacke Frier so did Conrade Pellican a gray Frier so did Castalio a moonke Cartusian And for good manners sake shal we be afraid to cal them loose Apostates As for Mooncke Hooper the vsurper of Worceter and Gloueâ—ter Barlow of Chichester Frier or Chanon or bothe as I heare say Sir Downham of Westchester the Bonhome of Asheridge Frier Skory of Hereforde al married and the two olde good Fathers Frier Barkley of Bathe and Welles and Frier Couerdal Couerdal the Quondam of Exceter which after the death of their olde wiues haue of late yoked them selues againe to two yong wemen for their comforte in age forbearing to speake any worse worde of them bicause they be your very frendes may I not be so bolde as to cal them loose Apostates TOuching other bitter wordes gathered by you out of my writinges into your Rolle Huguenotes of France Gues of the lovv Countrie though your EuaÌ„gelical Brethern the Huguenotes of Fraunce and Scotland and the Gues of the low Countrie that haue robbed and spoiled so many Churches so many Monasteries NoÌ„neries and other places and haue burnt so many thousandes of faire bookes with the Libraries and coÌ„mitted so many horrible outrages I may not least I seme vncourteous cal them Theeues Churcherobbers the Deuils ministers Satans broode scholers of Satans schoole Caluinistes Satanistes Deuilish Rable Turkish Huguenotes c. For these be vnciuile and vnmannerly wordes saith M. Iewel and it is a great offence to vse them Though Frier Luther were taught of the Deuil in a night conference as he †See the Preface before my last Reioinder tovvard the ende confesseth him selfe to abandon the Masse and to worke al the spite he could against the most blessed Sacrifice of the Churche yet for ciuilities sake he may not be called the Nouice of the Deuil nor his Folowers the Ennemies of the Sacrifice neither may that be called the Deuils Schoole were the Deuil Luthers schoolemaster neuer so muche What Turkish wickednes hath proceeded out of this Doctrine who seeth not yet by M. Iewel it is beside good manner to cal it Turkish Doctrine The Professours of this doctrine and specially M. Iewel him selfe doo omitte no occasion yea they seeke al occasions they can to reuele and blase abroade vnto the worlde Chams broode the Defaultes and imperfections of the Catholiques without whiche menne liue not and chiefly if perhappes some Abuses haue creapte into some particular Churches they make muche of a litle folowing therein the facte of Cham Gen. 9. who reueled the nakednes of his Father Noe. This notwithstanding it is noted in M. Iewels Rolle of my sharpe woordes for a greuous offence that I cal such personnes Chams broode Who euer wrote so filthily and so bawdelike as Frier Bale Bale that Irishe Prelate of Oserie The harte can not be cleane whose eares can abide to heare such vncleane woordes Yet forsooth bicause he alwaies railed at the Catholike Churche and at the Clergie therof and wrought so mightily in the vineyard of their lorde that is to say in despite of the Pope and of al auncient order and religion it is skored vp by M. Iewel for a bitter speache that I called him Bawdy Bale geuing warning by that terme to al chaste hartes to refraine the reading of suche vnchast and filthy bookes That it was no great offence to cal M. Iewel him selfe a Lyer a Falsifier a Boaster a Scoffer AS for your selfe M. Iewel who euer was so vaine so foolish so insolent so cockish so mad as to make such a Chalenge to al learned men a liue And now how vnhable
charged and of whiche he hath not yet discharged him selfe The 4. Chapter AFter his heape of sharpe wordes partly forged by him selfe partly called out of my writinges and laid together as it were in a Table whiche seeme to him and to his brethren so muche irksome how muche their conscience is gilty he setteth forth in an other Table as it were certaine Vntruthes to the number of 31. whiche he founde among many moe noted against him in my first Reioinder and in my Confutation of the Apologie This Table he calleth M. Ievvels intent in setting forth the Vievv of his Vntruthes A Viewe of Vntruthes His intent and meaning is by the View of these fewe Vntruthes which he hath chosen out as the leaste among the whole number to purchase him selfe a Defence or at least waie some excuse for the reste For faine would he al menne to be persuaded that the reste noted by me and by others who haue confuted his errours and detected his manifold falshoode are of no greater weight then these are What and how great the reste are they maie see who liste to reade our bookes in which they be truly set forth How vnhable he is to iustifie them it shal appeare by that he hath said in the Viewe For if he be not hable to discharge him selfe of these one and thirty the leaste how shal he be hable to acquitte him self of a thousand and moe of greater weight scoared vp against him by those that haue written but vpoÌ„ fiue of his six and twentie Articles First 〈◊〉 layeth forth .15 Vntruthes which among many moe in my Râ—ioinder I noted against him out of his Replie to the first Article The first nyne he is driuen to acknowledge For he hath said nothing in their defence If he wil saie they be but smal Vntruthes and therefore not worthy of any thing to be said of them it may be replied they are too great to be vttered so neare together M. Ievvel is rife of Vntruthes in the very beginniÌ„g of his Replie For the first six Vntruthes be within the compasse of 12. lines in the beginning of his Replie It were strange that six great Vntruthes should be vttered within so fewe lines in the beginning of a booke For them that can not defende a matter but with great lyes it is the beste policie to beginne with smaller lyes For elles they should marre altogether This circumstance considered Vntruthes must needes seeme bothe many and great Briefly the whole fifteen Vntruthes noted out of the Replie be founde in his first Diuision that is to saie within lesse then thrise fifteen lines It were very il lucke if they should be proued al to be great and weightie Vntruthes in the first entrie of the booke and that within so litle space There was neuer any Writer so vaine or false The. 10. Vntruth Beno and VspergeÌ„sis parcially holding with the Emperour not to be beleeued against Gregorie the. 7. that sowed Vntruthes so thicke specially in the beginning of a Treatie The first nyne then being confessed to be Vntruthes vndischargeable let vs see how substancially he dischargeth him selfe of the six other It is reported saith he of Pope Hildebrand so he calleth Gregorie the seuenth that he wrought Necromancie and Sorcerie This noted I for an Vntruth saying it is not reported by any graue and true writer but by them that flattered the Emperour of that time To this he maketh a Replie This storie saith he is largely set out by Beno and Vrspergensis These be they whose witnesse I refused before as being the Emperours flatterers and bearing malice to the Pope and therfore ouer parcial to beare credite in that case Gregorie the seuenth How farre this worthy man Gregorie the seuenth was from exercising Necromancie or Sorcerie and from other vices it is largely declared by the best writers of stories of that age namely by Marianus Scotus by Lambertus Schafuaburgensis and Leo Hostiensis and specially by Otho Frisingensis and of late by Platina and Onuphrius Panuinus Furthermore Beno can not beare great credite with vs as he that is condemned by Ecclesiastical censure Vrspergensis set out by MelanchthoÌ„ only The. 11. Vntruth As for Vrspergensis he is worthily suspected to be corrupted by your felowes of Germanie among whom he was set out in printe by Philip MelanchthoÌ„ and not els Item Henrie the Emperour was poisoned in the Communion breade saith M. Iewel Vntruthe say I He was not poisoned but died otherwise For proufe he replieth and allegeth Vrspergensis Likewise Auentinus and besides Baptista Ignatius the writer of Supplementum Chronicorum Rauisius Textor the GraÌ„marian and Carion writers of our time and some of them of litle credite Neither in suche a case maketh the nuÌ„ber of writers any ArgumeÌ„t of truthe For the afterwriters being deceiued by the Vntruthe of the first writer be they neuer so many in number caÌ„not make true Henrie of Luxemburg hovv he dyed Lib. 8. that whiche was vntruly reported at the first Touching the Death of this Emperour who was Henrie of Luxemburg Paulus Aemylius a graue and a learned man who hath examined this mater to the vttermost writeth that he died of a sickenes whiche he fel into at Bonconuento in the territorie of Siena in Tuskane being come thither from Pisa The same writeth * In scholijs in Platinam Onophrius That he should be poisoned in receiuing the Sacrament by meanes of a Dominican Frier Cornelius Cornepolita seemeth to esteme it for a fable or to make the best of it for a matter of a heare saie By that which * In Chronographia The .12 Vntruth Victors Death Nauclerus writeth therof it appeareth to be no better then a fained tale Item Pope victor was poisoned in the Chalice saith M. Iewel This noted I for an Vntruth and said he died otherwise To this he replieth and for his saying allegeth Martinus Polonus that vaine fabler the first author of the fabulous Popedom of Pope Ioan the woman he nameth certaine other of our age some being as very enemies to the Catholike Church as he him selfe is namely Anselmus Rid Anselmus Rid. a ProtestaÌ„t of Berna whom we beleue in such a mater no more then we beleue M. Iewel For such menne be very ready to set out in bookes any thing wherby the estimatioÌ„ of our diuine Mysteries may be impaired in the iudgement of light heads be it neuer so vntrue Concerning Pope Victors death VinceÌ„tius Vincentius BellouaceÌ„ as good an Author as Martinus Polonus and a man of muche greater learning writeth that he died of a Dysenterie and so Platina reciteth In these three Vntruthes M. Iewel hath some colour of a defence bicause the writers of the Stories doo varie And he liketh that report best that is most fabulous and vaine and teÌ„deth to the coÌ„tempt of the Pope and of the blessed Sacrament Suche stuffe is precious in his sight Thus it is cleare that he
M. Iewel in his Defence goeth about to proue with many testimonies to no purpose I denie not Pag. 227. ne neuer denied but this specâ—â—â— Decâ—â—â— of Anacletus iâ—â—â— be 〈…〉 of thâ— Clergie onely Anacletus in prima Epistola Decretali that attendâ—â— vpon the Bishop as the Circumstance of the place in thâ— Epistle of Anacletus showeth This is to be sene in my Confutation fol. 9â— a. To this M. Iewel replieth and saith Here M. Harding is soone reproued euen by his owne Dectours Darandus Hugo Cochlaus Clichthâ—ueus For thus they saie Omnes olim tum Sacerdotes tum Laici cum sacrificante communicabant c. Hiâ— vnum de hae re Canonem recitâ—bo qui Calixto â—scribitur Hereto I answer If I saie otherwise touching this point then these whom M. Iewel calleth myne owne Doctours haue said therein I am gainesaid it wil not folow that I am reproued Dâ—randus and Hugo say nothing that is contrary to my vnderstanding of Anacletus Decree As for Coclaeus and Clichthoueus menne of our tyme what if they tooke it otherwise then I doo That is their Priuate sense It foloweth not thereof that I am deceiued That Anacletâ—â— Decree touching the necessitie of Communion to be receiued perteineth onâ—y to the Clergie Nicol. Cusanus epi. 7. ad Clerum literatos Bohemia Degradentur I haue good cause rather to beleeue Cardinal Cusanus who semeth to haue examined this Decree farther and more exactly thâ—n these two late writers haue done For thus he reciteth the Later parte of the Decree as it is in the Original out of Burchardus Sic enim Apostoli statuerunt sancta Romanae tenet Ecclesia si hoc neglexerint degâ—adentur Let al communicate that were present at the Consecration saith the Decree for so the Apostles haue ordeined and so the holy Romaine Curche holdeth and if they omitte it by contempte lette them be degraded or deposed from their Degree Cusanus willeth the worde Degradentur Degradentur to be weighed and thereof gathereth that the Decree speaketh only of them of the Clergie that were present at the Consecration and were admitted into Sancta Sanctorum the holy place where none came but such as were in Ecclesiastical Orders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say of the Clergie as they are called in the. 9. Canon among the Canons of the Apostles whereunto the Decree maketh relation Hereof I haue spoken sufficiently beside the place of my Confutation aboue mencioned in my first Reionder fol. 220. a. and againe fol. 308. a. Thus you remaine stil charged with this Vntruthe For it is not inough to say what is written but to discerne what is best written M. Ievvel The Apologie Parte 2. cap. 8. Diuis 2. Gregorius Nazianzenus saith speaking of his owne Father The .3 Vntruth that a good and a diligent Bishop doth serue in the Ministerie neuer the woorse for that he is married but rather the better Here I tolde M. Iewel that he vsed his accustomed Figure Pseudologia whiche is as muche to say as lying in plaine Englishe For in deede he neuer saied it And so muche doo I tel him here once againe But lette vs consider of his Replie wherein he seemeth to plaie the parte of a woorse Lyer then before Thus he saith An vntruth proceding of grosse ignoraÌ„ce or of great impudencie This errour of M. Hardinges grewe of ignorance For Nazianzenes wordes be very plaine Meo Patri Mater mea c. My Mother being geuen to my Father of God became not onely his helper for that had benne no great woonder but also was his leader and Captaine both by worde and by deede trayning him vnto the beste In Religion and godlines she doubted not to becomme his Maistresse Nazianzenus in Epitaphio patris The faithful vvoman trauailed vvith her vnfaithful husband to bring him vnto the Faith she did not so after that he vvas made Bisshop August Confess li. 9. cap. 9. Al this and muche more vttered by the learned sonne of his godly Mother is to be vnderstanded of the time when his father was an Infidel She being a Christian woman and comme of a Christian stocke being married vnto her husband remaining yet without beleefe in Christe vsed al the good meanes of a helper guide leader schoolemaistresse and teacher to induce him vnto the Faith Whiche thing by Goddes grace at length she perfourmed as the holy wooman Monica S. Augustines mother did likewise in winning Patricius her husband vnto the Faith of Christe not long before he died as S. Augustine witnesseth But that euer she tooke vpon her so to teache him after that he was chosen Bisshoppe of Nazianzum for that M. Iewel is not hable to shewe vs so muche as one woorde or halfe woorde and yet that doth he constantly affirme in his pretensed Defence In the Defence page 178. This being so what maketh it to the iustification of his Vntruthe It may please thee good Reader to peruse that I say of this hereafter where I treate of it at large and confute this impudent Vntruthe of M. Iewels thoroughly Confutation fol. 76. in sequent Howbeit I confuted the same also sufficiently in my Confutation of the Apologie M. Ievvel The Apologie Parte 6. cap. 5. Diuis 2. Pope Liberius saith he was a fauourer of the Arian Heretiques The 4. Vntruth That he was a fauourer of the Arians it is vtterly vntrue saie I. And it were not harde if I were desirous to furnish foorth a greate Booke with heapes of Doctours sayinges as M. Iewel is to allege very muche to the contrarie and in his Defence that he was a man of great constancie and neuer bare sauour towarde the mainteiners of that horrible heresie The contrarie appeareth by that Theodoritus writeth of him Libro Ecclesiasticae Historiae 2. cap. 17. Athanasius in Apologia saith he was bannished for that he would not subscribe vnto the Arian Heresie Tripart Lib. 5. cap. 16. M. Iewels Replie hereto is this The Authour hereof is S. Hierome de Ecclesiasticis Scriptoribus in Fortunatiano And one of M. Hardinges owne principal Doctours saith De Liberio Papa constat fuisse Arianum That Pope Liberius was no fauourer of the Arians Here haue we twoo newe Vntruthes added vnto the old Marke Reader what is that M. Iewel affirmeth and that I denie It is this that Pope Liberius was a fauourer of the Arian Heretiques S. Hierome in the place by M. Iewel alleged saieth not that Liberius was a fauourer of the Arians but that by the importunitie of Fortunatianus Bisshop of Aquileia Hieron in Catalogo ScriptoruÌ„ Eccl. 107. he was compelled to subscribe vnto Heresie as he was going into bannishment for the Faith Pro Fide ad exilium pergentem primus solicitauit ac fregit ad subscriptionem haereseos compulit saieth S. Hierome if these were his his owne woordes and not woordes added vnto him by Heretiques as
in So were they restored and held their former roumes And thereupon were made diuers cries in signification of ioy Thus it is euideÌ„t that Iuuenalis and Thalassius were not condemned by the Ciuile Magistrate as M. Iewel saith But M. Iewel allegeth Pope Leos Epistle to Anatholius the B. of Constantinople speaking of these Bishoppes to proue I cannot tel what Defence pag. 683. For thereof it can not be gathered that they were condemned by the ciuile Magistrate These be the wordes of Leo. De nominibus Dioscori c. Touching the names of Dioscorus Iuuenalis and Eustathius Leo epist 40. ad AnatholiuÌ„ not to be rehearsed at the holy Aulter it becoÌ„meth you to kepe this muche By these wordes and the other that folow immediatly Leo required Anatholi to see that the names of those Bishops that had coÌ„sented to Dioscorus vnto the vniust condeÌ„nation of blessed B. Flauianus should not as the manner then was be rehersed at th'Aulter in the time of the Masse among other Catholik Bishops wherby they were praied for specially in that Church of CoÌ„staÌ„tinople wher Flauianus had ben bishop Ibidem that so iniurie should not be donne saith he vnto the blessed memorie of Flauianus and that by so doing he should not turne awaie the mindes of the Christian people from his owne grace and fauour For how could the people gladly heare their names rehearsed in that Churche Iuuenaliâ— not condeÌ„ned in the Councel of ChalcedoÌ„ by Vvitnes of Leo Leo ad IuuenaleÌ„ epist 72. by whom the most worthy Bishop of the same Church was most vniustly condeÌ„ned and deposed As for Iuuenalis the Bishop of IerusaleÌ„ Leo him selfe in his Epistle vnto him is a manifest witnes that he was not coÌ„deÌ„ned but restored againe vnto his Bishoprik For thus he writeth vnto him among other thinges Gauisus quideÌ„ sum quòd tibi ad Episcopatus tui sedem redire licuisset I reioised that it was made lawful for thee to returne home againe vnto thy Bishoprike Againe he saith vnto him eftsones there In tempore indulgentia resipiscentiam magis quà m pertinaciaÌ„ de legisti In the time when pardon might be obteined thou hast chosen amendement rather then stubbornesse Thus I haue sufficiently proued that the six Bishops M. Iewel not hauing sene the Original but trusting to an others note as it seemeth nameth but only three were not condemned of the ciuile Magistrate by sentence of his owne mouth but that Dioscorus and not one els was condemned and deposed not by lay Magistrates who gaue place to the Bishops in that case as I haue before declared but by sentence of the Popes Legates and by the Councel it selfe Now bicause M. Iewel taketh me vp very roundely in his pretensed Defence as if he had gotten a great coÌ„quest against me whereas after a huge number of shamelesse Vntruthes he chargeth me with many Vntruthes I wil here by waie of a briefe dialogue answere him reporting his wordes none otherwise then he him selfe hath vttered them speaking vnto me in his booke Iewel Defence Pag. 685. Novve shortly to consider the vvhole substance of your tale first ye say these three Bishops Dioscorus Iuuenalis and Thalassius vvere neuer condemned in the Councel of Chalcedon M. Iewels obiection of Vntruthes ansvvered This ye see is one vntruth Harding In deede I see it and graunt it to be an Vntruth But of your parte M. Iewel not of mine For as now ye see it by me sufficiently prooued onely Dioscorus the B. of Alexandria was condemned and that by the Councel not by the Ciuile Magistrate as you vntruly affirme Iuuenalis Thalassius and the other three in consideration of their submission and agreeing in beleefe vnto the Councel were pardoned admitted into the Councel and restored vnto their former roumes and dignities Iewel Secondly ye saie the Ciuile Magistrate neuer condemned them This is an other vntruthe Harding True it is it is an other Vntruthe But it is yours not myne For in deede as I haue before proued the Ciuile Magistrate did not condemne them but the Councel of Bishoppes condemned Dioscorus onely This being true it followeth that your contrarie saying is an Vntruthe Iewel Thirdly ye saie Iunenalis and Thalassius vvere rebuked for fitting as iudges in Councel vvithout the Popes authoritie These are tvvo other vntruthes Harding Ye are rise of your Vntruthes Of two I returne one backe vnto you againe For the reporte you make of my wordes is vntrue Looke better in my Confutation There ye shal finde me to speake otherwise not determinatly as you report but coniecturally thus Confutat fol. 316. a They might wel haue rebuke for misusing them selues in the seconde Councel at Ephesus where they sate like Iudges without authoritie of the See of Rome Al this considered with that I haue declared before touching this whole matter lâ—â— the indifferent reader iudge yea one of your owne secte being learned if he wil take the paines to vewe and conferre al that I haue here written with the place in your pretensed Defence whether I had not iust cause to saie as I said in my Confutation what is Impudencie what is licenceous lying what is false dealing if this be not If I seeme ouer long Reader in this point the blame ought to be M. Iewels whose manifold Vntruthes and shamelesse shiftes vsed in his Defence to coloure this matter haue driuen me to vse more prolixitie then otherwise I woulde haue donne After this folow in M. Iewels View of his Vntruthes six mo Vntruthes whiche although he hath aduisedly chosen bothe out of my Reioindre and out of my Confutation as the easiest for him to make his answer vnto and to defende yet by ought he is hable to saie he hath not so iustified the leaste but that he maie yet stande charged The three vntruthes of the Apologie next folowing be of no great weight I confesse And therefore I wil not spend time about them Yet great malice maie lye hidde vnder smal trifles For the trial of them I referre the Reader to bothe our bookes The. 11. The. 12. The. 13. Vntruth Reioind fol. 251. b. The Apologie part 2 c. 13. d. 1. Apology part 2. c 1 Diuis 1. What I said of these wordes post finem orationum true it is and vntrue it is that M. Iewel saith Likewise Origen hath Ille Cibus that meate not ille Panis as M. Iewel vntruly alleged As for the place of S. Augustine whiche M. Iewel noteth in his 13. Vntruthe whether the worde be Oportet or Potest it is doubteful Bookes of diuers editions haue diuersly The point which by that place he woulde proue conteineth heresie So that though it were not an Vntruth in worde yet is it a great Vntruthe in sense and meaning M. Ievv The Apologie Parte 5. cap. 3. Diuis 11. The olde Councel of Carthage commaunded nothing to be readde in the Congregation but the Canonical Scriptures The. 14. Vntruth This olde Councel
is newly falsified saie I by nipping of wordes from the sentēce that be of great importance and quite contrarie to that M. Iewel intendeth For the whole Decree hath these wordes Concil Cartag 3. Cap. 47. Placuit vt praeter Scripturas Canonicas nihil in Ecclesia legatur sub nomine diuinarum scripturarum It hath benne thought good that nothing be readde in the Churche vnder the name of the holy Scriptures beside the Canonical Scriptures It foloweth in the same Decree Let it be lawful also for the Martyrdomes of Martyrs to be read when their yerely Feastes are kepte This Vntruthe M. Iewel by no shifte is hable to excuse What he bringeth in his Replie out of the Abbridgement of the Councel of Hippo made in the third Councel of Carthage is to no purpose For though the Abbridgement saie that praeter Scripturas alia non legantur other thinges be not readde in the Churche beside the Scriptures yet how that is to be vnderstanded it is supplied by the Decree of the third Coūcel of Carthage by those wordes sub nomine diuinarum scripturarum So that M. Iewel maie looke to finde no better reliefe in the Councel of Hippo Abbridged then he founde in that Councel of Carthage See my Confutation of the Apologie Fol. 243. a. The. 15. Vntruth The 15. Vntruth of the Apologie which M. Iewel goeth about to make good standeth altogether vpon a point of the Canon lawe in what case the Pope committeth Simonie I alleged summa Angelica He in his Repli◠saith I vnderstande not my Summa Bicause the discussion hereof nequireth a large processe and is not very necessarie in it selfe nor perteineth specially to our profession I leaue it to M. Iewelles great lawier to treate of it to the most aduantage if he haue so muche leisure as to thinke hereof being him selfe muche encombred poore man with matters of the law about his two wiues not being yet determined whiche of them he maie kepe stil whiche he maie turne awaie Ye should do wel to amend that disorder M. Iewel Touching the. 16. Vntruth The. 16. Vntruth I neede to saie litle It pleased M Iewel of his owne humilitie to acknowledge an errour whiche I laid not vnto his charge Certainely whiles he goeth about to trie him selfe a true man he ladeth him selfe with a more huge burden of Vntruthes and maketh al menne that wil lose their time in reading his bookes witnesses how when falsehed is attempted to be defended lying and falsehed is farther multiplied By experience of M. Iewels writinges this muche I finde VVhat it is to confute M. Ievvels vvritinges that to confute him is no more but to saie where he saith ought of his owne that either al is false or light scoffing stuffe or otherwise vaine where he bringeth the sayinges of other menne wherewith in manner only his bookes be farced that either muche is true but impertinent nor by the Catholiques denied the reste false as alleged out of Heretiques or at lest in some parte aduersaries vnto the vnitie of the Churche as Bale Illyricus Iacobus Andreae Sleidan Cassander Lorichius and suche others or by M. Iewels common sleightes falsified and corrupted and wrested to an vndue sense or otherwise not very material vnprofitable and not worth the answering This shal he finde to be most true who soeuer wil examine the thinges he setteth forth as I haue If he mingled some true discourses with his other vntrue extrauagantes as other Heretikes cōmonly haue done our labour of answering should be lesse Now his vntruthes and impudent Lies be so many that to confute al it were labour bothe infinite to the writer and vnprofitable to the reader Towardes the ende of the View of his Vntruthes at last in a great brauerie he concludeth with the wordes of S. Paule tanquà m seductores ecce veraces 2. Cor. 6. We are saith he called Deceiuers and yet we saie the truth But how truly this boaste is made the Defence of these fewe his Vntruthes by me now answered doth sufficiently witnesse How be it here at length the man remembring him selfe better In the Defence B. iij. a. b. beginneth to take some conscience of the matter and protesteth that he wil not so warrant euery parcel of any his writing as though there were nothing therein conteined that might safely be iustified in al respectes What is that then wherein he acknowlegeth him selfe to haue done vntruly Let vs see how muche and how great it is for by that we shal take a View of his sinceritie and of his humilitie O saith he The errours that M. Ievvel maie be induced to acknovvledge in him selfe If I haue at any time marke this if I haue Reader for neither this muche wil he confesse simply mistaken Authour for Authour or name for name or Chapter for Chapter or booke for booke or any one Father or Doctour for an other suche erroures were neuer hitherto accompted damnable Yea the best learned haue oftentimes fallen into them Doest thou not see reader what great errours and ouersightes this man with his If confesseth to be in his writing As though we found that onely faulte in him whiche maie happen to any writer by ouersight be he neuer so diligent and not other great Vntruthes corruptions falsifyinges lyes and sclaunders that by no colour can be excused What many of them be hereafter thou shalt see in this processe August in Psal 33. Cōcione 1. The great faultes that M. Ievvel findeth in my bookes Now to requitte me he laieth certaine great crimes to my charge As that in alleging this saying of S. Augustine Christus ferebatur in manibus suis I leafte out as he saith this worde quodammodo That in an allegation I name Iosue for Osee that there is founde in the margent of my booke where Socrates is alleged lib. 8. whiche faulte was the printers whereas Socrates neuer wrote but 7. bookes Item that in the margent the printer hath put Luc. 2. for Luc. 22. and in the texte 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with whiche ouersightes I maie reasonably and truly charge the Printers Compositours and discharge my selfe for at al times I attende not vpon the printe my selfe and though I had yet suche smal faultes might wel haue escaped me though I had as many eyes as the poetes feine of Argus So of myne owne accorde I confesse whereat M. Iewel maketh no litle adoo as thoughe it were a hainous offence that where I speake of Henrie the fourth Emperour and his sonne Henrie the fifth the compositour by ouersight and negligence hath sette for Henrie the sonne against Henrie the fourth Henrie the seconde against Henrie the fourth For in that place See the Defence pag. 418. See the Confutat fol. 187. b. M. Ievvel in the Vievv of Vntruthes B. 3. b whereas M. Iewel demaundeth this question Who put in armes the Sonne against the Emperour his Father Henrie the fourh I answer in
by your vulgare translations corrupted them that lamentable it is to consider And when we burned the same corrupt translations or any parte thereof or any of your heretical treatises we burned not the Scriptures no more then one doth the Apple tree that burneth the Caterpillers The Scriptures we honour and kepe most reuerently and diligently Therefore your comparing of vs with the wicked kinges Aza Antiochus Maximinus and Herode is false and sclaūderous Reade the reste that foloweth there good Reader and if thou wilt iudge as thou findest and saie as thou iudgest and write that thou maist truly saie M. Iewel shal be said to be a false sclaunderer and regestred in the booke of lying sclaunderers Iewel Pag. 10. As for Iohn VViclef Iohn Hus VValdo and the rest they vvere godly men their greatest heresie vvas this that they complained of the dissolute and vitious liues of the Clergie of vvorshipping of Images of feined miracles of the tyrannical pride of the Pope of Monkes Friers Pardons Pilgrimages and Purgatorie and other like deceiuing and mocking of the People and that they vvished a reformation of the Churche Harding That Wiclef mainteined sundrie hainous Heresies The. 3. Chapt. Beside these heresies whiche you accompte for none M. Iewel they had sundry other farre greater As for example Among the Articles of Wiclef condemned in the Councel of Constance Art 4. this was one That if a Bishop or a Priest be in deadly sinne he doth not order consecrate Lib. 1. cōtra Petilianū ca. 1. Art 6. Art 10. nor baptise This was the plaine heresie of the Donatistes as it appeareth by S. Augustine Item that God ought to obey the Deuil Item that it is against the Scripture that Ecclesiastical Ministers shoulde haue any temporal possessions If this be no greater heresie then the reste M. Iewel then allowe it as you allowe the reste But the gaine is to sweete you can not brooke it Item that no man is a temporal Lorde Art 15. no man is a Prelate no man is a Bishop whiles he is in mortal sinne If ye make this no Heresie then ye denie the Queene to be Queene of England when so euer she falleth into Mortal sinne And whereas by your doctrine ye make euery sinne mortal vtterly reiecting the distinction of venial sinnes the Quene as no man elles lyuing not without sinne What meane you by this doctrine to allowe her in this case for no Quene of England She is muche beholden vnto you Item by Wiclef the common people maie at their arbitriment correcte their Lordes when they doo amisse Art 17. If you and your fellowes wil allowe this for a true Doctrine and preache it in your Pulpites lustily ye shal like the people ioilily and wel and thereof doubtelesse wil followe suche order and obedience as becommeth your Gospel and as Satan the Authour of it shal be pleased withal Suche the like and worse were the Heresies of Huss and Waldo These Articles and many other were recorded both in the general Councel of Constance Cōcil Cōstant Sess 8. pag. 96. and in your felowe Fox in his booke of the Deuilles Martyrs But touching Iohn Hus sith ye make him so godly a man and so voide of al Errours and Heresies how wil you defend him for that so commonly he said Masse whereat ye enueigh and raile so muche Masse said by Hus. Looke in the Teutonical historie of the Councel of Constance written by one Huldrick Reichental Citizen of Constance and ye shal finde by him reported who liued at that very time and marked wel what happened 〈◊〉 those daies that Iohn Hus oftentimes said Masse in his hostes house during the time of his abode in Constance and that the people came much vnto it Itaque Dominica Oculi quae tertia est in Quadragesima In histor Teutonica de Concil Costātien vbi celebrasset Missam mane c. When he had said Masse saith he in the Sundaie named Oculi whiche is the third Sundaie in Lent And this did Hus not onely before he had read the Bookes of Wiklef by whiche he was carried awaie into an other Gospel but also at the ende of his life euen a litle before for his detestable heresies he was burnte as it is at large reported by the said Reichental and witnessed by Ioannes Cochlaeus lib. 2. De Historia Hussitarum The 4. chapt Pag. 11. In the matter of planting the faith among the Britaines and the English M. Iewel telleth vs againe a longe tale which he tolde vs before in his Replie the vntruthes whereof are already largely and specially confuted in the Returne of vnthruthes vpon his Replie M Ievvel dissēbleth al ansvvere made to his vntruthes Art 3. pag. 124. sequent Wherein he dissembleth vtterly al answer made thereunto though it be wel knowen that he hath seene the said Returne and that he had one with the first presented vnto him at Oxforde at what time the Quenes Matie was there in progresse In that page he belieth extremely Theodoritus S. Augustine the Apostle of the English nation sclaūdered by M. Ievvel vnder the name of Golfridus Monemuthensis Nicephorus and Galfridus of Mounmouth sclaundering immoderately vnder Golfridus name our blessed Apostle S Augustine See the Returne pag. 30. In the page following he belieth Beda twise first applying that to the English menne which he spake of the Britaines namely of 7. Bishoppes and one Archebishop c. For what soeuer he telleth vs of the Queene King Ethelbertes wife who being a Frenche woman liued in the exercise of her Religion that she was Christened in among the Christian people of Fraunce certaine it is that our English Nation of whom in my Answer to his Chalenge I spake and not of the Britaines were not Christiās before S. Augustine came sent by S. Gregorie frō Rome Secondly he belieth Beda in saying as out of his ecclesiastical storie that the Christians of our Countrie vtterly refused to receiue this newe Apostle with his religion For Bede speaketh only of the Britaine or welshe Bishoppes but nothing so muche as M. Iewel fableth They refused to obey him as their Archebishop they refused not his religion They were also in many pointes Schismatikes as Bede in the same place recordeth whom M. Iewel here so commendeth See Bede either in Latine or in English lib. 2. cap. 2. The matter is of right good importance and worthy to be tried Pag. 12. The 5. Chapt. The iudgement of Constantine the great in a cause Ecclesiastical betwen Cacilianus and Donatus à Casis nigris he reneweth againe M. Ievvel in the Defence repeteth againe the old stuffe of his Replie in many pointes as if the same were not ansvvered vtterly dissembling the Answer made thereunto in the Returne Art 4. pag. 105. sequēt Pag. 14. He bringeth in againe the commō obiections against the Real Presence out of Tertullian and S. Augustine dissembling vtterly
of your secte of whom you saie they see suche a light as vnder the Pope the worlde sawe not Of this it foloweth that the time then was in whiche Christe was not with you And so euery waie if Christes worde be true yours must be false M. Ievvel obiecteth agaiÌ„st the Churche as the old heretikes the Donatistes did But marke wel gentle Reader that whiche I wil now declare vnto thee M. Iewels obiectioÌ„ against the Church is the very olde obiection of the Donatistes For as M. Iewel saith here that it were to muche for vs hauing broken Gods commaundement c. yet neuerthelesse to binde Christe to his promise whiche was that his Church should continewe for euer and haue the Spirite of Truthe alwaies remaining in it So the Donatistes said ideo ex partibus terrarum August lib. 1. ca. 2 contra Epistol Parmen in quibus iam impletum erat perijsse Abraha semen quod est Christus euacuatas promissiones Dei quia ipsi non sunt admissi ad eorum communionem apud quos hoc iam retinebat orbis impletum That therefore the seede of AbrahaÌ„ that is Christ had perished froÌ„ out of other partes of the world where it had ben already fulfilled and therfore the promises of God touching the continuance of Christ with his Church to the worldes ende were made voide bicause they the Donatistes were not admitted to the Communion of those Christians in Fraunce Italie Spaine and other Christian Countries among whom the worlde kepte this promise of Christe already fulfilled They said the promise of Christes continuance was broken bicause al the other partes of the worlde besides and out of Africa communicated with Cecilianus and his successours whom they accused for * Traditores Deliuerers vp of the Scriptures in time of persecution and therefore accompted them for no parte of Christes Churche and refused to communicate with them euen as M. Iewel saith here that for our euil doinges Christe was not bound to his promise This obiection of the Donatistes seemed to a learned man of their owne secte Ticonius Ticonius by name vnreasonable and insufficient And therefore he wrote a booke of that matter to wit that the promises of God in the Scriptures for the continuance of his Churche vniuersally spred through the worlde could not possibly be broken through any wickednes of man or menne what soeuer This to be so S. Augustine witnesseth saying August li. 1. contra epist parmen ca. 1. Ticonius homo quidem acri ingenio praeditus vberi eloquio sed tamen Donatista omnibus sanctarum paginarum vocibus circumtusus euigilauit vidit Ecclesiam Dei toto orbe diffusam sicut de illo tanto antè per corda ora sanctorum praeuisum atque praedictum est Quo percepto suscepit aduersus ipsos suos demonstrare asserere nullius hominis quamuis sceleratum immane peccatum praescribere promissis Dei nec id agere quorumlibet intra Ecclesiam coÌ„stitutoruÌ„ quamlibet impietatem vt fides Dei de Ecclesiasâ—tura diffundenda vsque ad terminos orbis terra quae in promissis patruÌ„ retenta nunc exhibita est euacuaretur Ticonius a man endewed with a sharpe wit and with tongue at wil but yet a Donatist knockt vp on euery side with al the sayinges of the Bible waked out of slepe and saw the Church of God spred ouer al the worlde as thereof so loÌ„g time before by the hartes and by the mouthes of Saintes it was foresene and foretolde Which thing hauing perceiued he toke in hand against them of his own fide euideÌ„tly to shew and affirme that no mannes sinne being neuer so wicked and passing great doth prescribe against the promises of God and that no manner impietie of any what soeuer that be placed in the Church doth bring this to passe that the promise of God shuld be made void touching the Churche to come and to be spred abrode vnto the borders of the round world which promise was coÌ„tinued in the promises made to the Fathers of the old testameÌ„t and is now come to perfourmance Thus then wrote Ticonius the Donatiste being forced thereto by the very cleare euidence of holy Scripture Parmenianus an other Donatist foreseing as S. Augustin writeth that if the persuasion of Ticonius toke place then he and his felowes which did not coÌ„municate with the whole corps of Christendom should be no part of al the Catholik Church Dioscorde betvven the Gospellers as in olde time among the Donatistes so vniuersally dispersed and so being out of the Church should stand for Heretiques wrote first an epistle against this Ticonius and when that would not suffise procured him to be openly condeÌ„ned in a CouÌ„cel of their owne sect Euen as at this day the Lutherans write against the Sacramentaries as Westphalus against Caluine Brentius against Bullinger Illyricus against Beza Peter Martyr against BreÌ„tius Heshusius against Boquine condemning one the other al being protestants or rather as they wil be named Gospellers Against the foresaid Epistle of Parmenianus written as I said against Ticonius S. Augustin wrote three bookes learnedly defending the Scriptures alleged by Ticonius to proue that no impietie of men what soeuer and how great soeuer it were can possibly be hable to driue Christ to breache of his promise concerning the perpetuitie of his Churche in many Nations and the assistence of the holy Ghost therein You therefore M. Iewel that thinke it much for vs to claime by the promise of Christe bicause by our wretchednes he should no more be bound to his promise The Donatistes Heresie renevved by M. Ievvel do plainely renewe the wicked and detestable opinion of the Donatist Parmenian whom S. Augustine so largely confuteth I remitte the learned to the said worke of S. Augustine specially to the second booke The vnlearned I remitte to a late writteÌ„ Treatise intituled The Fortresse The Fortresse annexed to the historie of Venerable Bede translated into Englishe where he shal finde suche scriptures as proue an vniuersal and knowen continuance of Christes Churche largely laied forth and prosecuted out of the Psalmes the Prophetes and the new testament To be short therefore An Argument prouing this nevv Congregation not to be the true Churche of Christ I frame you once againe this argumeÌ„t The true Church of Christ is such a multitude as hath had euermore in al ages and times Christe present and the Spirit of truth remaining with it Your Congregation is such as was not extant in the earth many hundred yeres together before Luther was borne and therefore can not be said to haue had that presence of Christ Ergo your Congregation is not the true Church of Christ The Maior is euident by Christes owne promise and by your owne Confession The Minor you confesse also both in your Apologie and in this pretensed Defence as I said before The Conclusion therefore remaineth
saie more S. Thomas preached in India S. Thomas the Apostle conuerted a great parte of the Indies as both auncient Stories doo reporte and certaine euident monumentes founde in those Countries by the Iesuites and other religious menne doo witnesse Now might not an other Iewish Iewel abase and bring in contempte al the Apostolique trauailes of that blessed Apostle in conuerting those rude and barbarous Nations as wel and as rightly as this our Iewel abuseth and bâ—ingeth in contempte the Apostolike trauailes of these blessed Iesuites Nicephor lib. 11. cap. 48. The Christian faith bringeth sauage aÌ„d barbarus people to humanitie and ciuilitie Theodoritus de Curatione GraecaruÌ„ affectionuÌ„ lib. 7. sub finem It is noted of Nicephorus for a singular effecte and commendation of the Gospel of Christe that where it was first planted it brought the sauage rude and cruel people to a ciuilitie humanitie and sobrietie of life And the ruder and farther from al humanitie the people was the more was Christe glorified in their Conuersion In like manner Theodorite noteth that whereas at Heliopolis in Egypte at Laodicea in Syria at Carthage in Afrike and in Greece it selfe the Gentiles offred vp menne in sacrifice to Idolles and liued otherwise most abhominably and barbarously yet through the Gospel saith he these horrible vices were vtterly abandoned and addeth Sacrae verò Euangeliorum leges nationes melius ciuitatésque moderantur The holy lawes of the Gospel are they wherby nations and Cities are best ruled Al which he telleth and reporteth for the commendation and honour of the Christian faith as being suche a heauenly Religion that hath brought most barbarous and sauage Nations to a more ciuile order of life to modestie moderation and humanitie Contrariwise M. Iewel to withdrawe the due praise from those holy religious personnes by whose trauaile God hath so wonderfully wrought draweth also the glorie from Christe and geueth that to natural reason which other Christian writers doo attribute most rightly to the power of the Gospel What is malice if this be not M. Ievv foloweth the Pharisees So the blasphemous Pharisies maligning the miraculous operations of our Sauiour here on earth said in the power of Beelzebub he casteth out Deuilles Matt. 12. So the Infidelles called S. Peter Maleficum a sorcerer and an enchaunter 〈◊〉 one that by Witchecrafte had brought men to Christs August de Ciuit. Dei lib. 18. ca. 53. ca. 54. So commonly they ascribed Miracles done by Martyrs to Witchecrafte and Sorcerie Iewel Pag. 41. If Pope Pius vvere so good a man and so fitte and vvorthy a pastor for the Churche of God vvhy then did his Cardinalles of late labâ—â—â— so earnestly by treason and Conspiracie to depose him being as you saie so good a man Or if it vvere not so vvhy then did he him selfe complaine thereof so bitterly in an Oration pronounced openly in Rome in the Consistorie Oratio Pij Papa Harding M. Iewel proppeth vp his weake cause with a forged write The. 11. Chapt. Nay why doo you M. Iewel to sclaunder the blessed memorie of so vertuous a man geue credite to suche a pelting Pamphlet as you alleage vs in the margent for authorizing this infamous and most false reproche Where was that Oration printed A forged Oration set out in printe as being made and pronouÌ„ced by Pius the fourth the late vertuous Pope and who wrote it by whom was it set forth It beareth a date of the yere but neither of place where nor of Authour by whom it was set forth If you sought for the truthe sincerely and vprightly as you wil seeme to the vnlearned to doo and not rather to deface the Churche of Rome by what meanes soeuer you would neuer vtter a matter so hainous vpon the reporte onely of such an vnlawful and sclaunderous write published by suche Makebates and seditious Protestantes whiche for want of true and iust matter being greued at the very harte that any Pope should be vertuous do forge in corners and inuent such infamous libelles This is the practise of your good brethren signifying thereby of what sprite they are If any truth had ben in the matter at the lest the printer should not haue ben a fearde to put vnto it his name and dwelling place But so it is he that loueth to doo euil fleeth light And contrariwise Truthe seeketh not corners TertulliaÌ„ In Apologetico but as Tertullian saith Nihil veretur nisi abscondi It feareth nothing but lest shee be hid Iewel Pag. 41. Your Fathers in the Councel of Basil CoÌ„cil Basil Concil Trident. and your frendes in the last Councel of Trident I vvil not saie had disputations but certainely yelded and gaue place vnto the Bohemians and vnto suche others as you cal heretiques Harding The Councel of Basile and that of Trent neuer yeelded to Heretiques This lie is so cleare and euident The 12. Chapt. Contradictions that our Confutation is nedelesse Your owne very wordes doo conuince you herein where you saie hereafter that the Councel of Trident hath yeelded in no manner thing in the worlde Againe in the nexte leafe Pag. 43. you would faine proue vnto vs out of Iohn Sleidan Mathias Flacius Illyricus one Iohn Fabritius Montanus a forged name and Petrus Paulus Vergerius al professed Protestantes as your selfe are and therefore likely I trowe to reporte vprightly and without al partialitie that in the Councel of Tridente no Audience coulde be geuen at al to any of your Secte excâ—pâ—e it were to recante their heresies If this were true as it is most false and so plaâ—â—ely proued by the Safeconductes of that Councel published in printe then how likely I praie you is it Absurditie that they should yeelde vnto them to whom they woulde not geue so much as the hearing Proue this M. Ievvel or iÌ„ your next booke saie pène thou madest a lye Last of al the very vtterance of this matter breatheth out an vntruth For neither is it tolde wherein those CouÌ„cels should yeelde neither where that yeelding should be found No Action no Session no CanoÌ„ is noted when where and how this great matter should come to passe Verely a matter so great that in case it were true al these great controuersies should soone be at a pointe specially you now being worthily taken for a man of smal credite would haue ben clearely and euidently set forth For if either two such Councels should yeeld to your Doctrine which we are sure hath not ne could not be done or you should yeeld to them we would neuer chaunge worde with you more aboute your Doctrine neither would we euer be so madde as to cal those menne Heretiques as it pleaseth you to saie we doo to whom those two Councels yea or any one general Councel should thinke good to yeelde We submitte our selues to General Councels humbly as it becometh vs. You bicause through heretical pride you wil not yeelde
reason stand in doubt so it be without pertinacie as that for these be his examples Thobie had a dog or that Aaron had a bearde or that the Arke of the Testament had a couering of Goates heare Further there he procedeth and sheweth the same by the example of a Canoniste exercised in the determinations of holy Churche and an other man hauing thereof no skil nor knowledge likewise of a man skilled in Logique Philosophie and other humaine science and an other man vtterly ignorant and vnlearned The vvhole and true sentence of Gerson vvhiche M. Ievv falsifieth To come vnto the wordes which you haue fowly falsified thus he concludeth Denique sequitur ex his omnibus quòd iudicium conclusiones fidei licet auctoritatinè spectâ—nt ad Praelatos Doctores spectare tamen potest ad alios quà m Theologos deliberatio sicut cognitio super ijs quae fidem respiciunt ita etiam vt ad laicos hoc posset extendi plus aliquando quà m ad multos clericorum Finally of al these foresaid thinges it foloweth that although the Iudgement and Conclusions of faithe belong vnto the Prelates and Doctours by waie of auctoritie yet deliberation or consultation maie belong vnto others beside the Diuines as also examination and trial of those thinges that concerne the faith yea and that so as this thing might be extended vnto laie menne and more vnto them sometimes then to many of the Clerkes Now Reader if thou marke wel and consider Gerson speaketh not at al of geuing sentence definitiue in Councel thou maist see how M. Iewel deceiueth thee Gerson in this place speaketh not at al of the auctoritie of geuing sentence Definitiue in general Councels whereof our controuersie is Beholde therefore with what conscience this man handleth these matters First he falsifieth Gerson making him to speake expressely of Sentence Definitiue to be geuen in a Councel This priuilege of geuing Sentence in Councel saith he c. Then he vttereth Gersons wordes otherwise then Gerson doth Againe Gerson there speaketh of three thinges Of Iudgement to be geuen and Conclusions to be made of the Faith by waie of Auctoritie in general Of Deliberation and Cognition touching matters perteining to the Faith The first he saith belongeth vnto the Prelates and Doctours or Professours of Diuinitie only the seconde and the thirde not onely vnto the Diuines but also vnto others and saith he sometime that is in some cases it may be extended vnto laie personnes And this we holde wel withal For euen at this present we wish that the discrete and wise men of the Laitie would better deliberate of pointes of the Catholique faith then hitherto some haue done and that they would examine and trie your allegations and ours together by conference of the Bookes whence they be taken out that they maie be hable to iudge whether parte vseth more truth and vpright dealing If they would thus doo as perhappes some few of a great number doo they should soone see iust cause to condemne you and vtterly to geue you ouer Iewel Pag. 48. The. 14. Chapt. Verely M. Harding vve neuer said Luther and Zuinglius vvere the first publisshers of the Gospel Harding Proued by their owne wordes that Luther was the first publissher of the Gospel A great Vntruthe M Ievv denieth here tâ—at he saith othervvheres In this your Defence touching Luther you saie no lesse Pag. 17. thus Doctor Luther beganne to publishe the Gospel of Christe If he that beginneth to publish be the first publisher then you said that Luther was the first publisher If there be any difference betwen these two termes then haue you wel defended your selfe If there be none as al that vnderstand English maie easily see there is none then you haue proued your selfe giltie of a great vntruthe In the Apologie preteÌ„ded to be traÌ„slated by the Lady A. B But I must rather put you in remembrance of your owne wordes vttered in the Apologie Who called the first sedicious and heretical preaching of Martin Luther and Hulderike Zuinglius Herbam Euangelij the first spring of the Gospel or the very first appearing of the Gospel as your Ladie Interpreter termeth it Againe who saith that forty yeres agone and vpwarde that is at the first setting forth of Luther and Zuinglius the truth was vnknoweÌ„ and vnhard of and that they first came to the knowledge and preaching of the Gospel Be not these the wordes of your owne Apologie Be they not set forth in diuers bokes of diuers printes And wil ye now tel the worlde and beare vs also in hand who be wel acquainted with your false dealinges that ye neuer said so What can any man vnderstande by the first spring or first appearing of the Gospel but the beginning of the Gospel If the Gospel beganne with Luther and Zuinglius how was it before If before their time the Gospel was vnknowen and vnhearde of for so the Apologie saith then where was there any truth at al If it were not knowen nor hearde of at al where was it in al the earth Or imagine ye that it maie lie hid in some secrete place without and beside the harte minde and spirite of man And if as you saie Luther and Zuinglius came first to the preaching of the Gospel how were they not the first preachers of the Gospel If they were the first preachers how were they not also the first publishers of the Gospel Thus you saie and vnsaie Yea and Nay is one with you And a Gods name al must be defended be it yea be it nay be it true be it false But thus it is cleare that your worde is not the Gospel And God be praised that we haue driuen you to eate your owne worde Iewel Pag. 48. Of Abailard and Almarike and certaine other your strange names he meaneth Apostoliques Peterbrusians VValdenses Albigenses and Imagebreakers vve haue no skil They are none of ours Harding That these Heretiques be of M. Iewelles side The 15. Chapt. I am glad M. Iewel to heare you so absolutely to renouÌ„ce these wicked heretiques at lest in wordes Would God ye would as freely forsake their Heresies in your doinges Alphonsus de Castro lib 9. Bernard Lutzeburg Almarik the heretique First as touching Petrus Abailardus he denied the free wil of man Doo not your great Maisters Wiclef Luther Zuinglius Peter Martyr and Caluine the same If these be yours how is not Abailard also yours Almarik the Frenchman taught of Images of Aulters of Inuocation of Saintes and of Transubstantiation as you doo condemning the Church of Idololatrie in al these pointes as you doo Of this Almarik then haue you no skil Is he not thus farre yours What are you become an other man Bernardus Serm. 66. super Cantica VValdeÌ„ses AEneas Slyuius Bohem. Histor cap. 35. then menne take you to be The Apostolikes denied Purgatorie as you doo The Waldenses in many pointes agree iumpe
the outward gouernment the being of a Head is common to Christe with others For in this respecte certaine others maie be called Headdes of the Church as in Amos the prophete the great states be called the Heades of the people So the Scripture speaketh of King Saul When thou were a litle one in thine owne eyes thou wast made Head emong the tribes of Israel So Dauid saith of him selfe he hath made me Head of Nations Amos. 6. 1. Reg. 15. Psal 17. Headship in respect of gouernement diuers in Christ and in menne * Left out by M. Ievvel In this sense the name of Head is attributed to princes and gouernours And yet not altogether so as to Christ First forasmuche as Christe is Head of al those that perteine to the Churche according to euery place euery time and euery state But menne are called Heades in regard of certaine special places as Bishoppes be called heades of their Churches Or in respect of a determinat time as the Pope is Head of the whole Church during the time of that calling And according to a determinate state euen so as menne be in the state of this mortal life for further stretcheth not this humanie Headship Againe the name of Head is attributed to Christe an other waie bicause Christe is Head of the Churche by his owne power and authoritie * Menne be called Headdes in asmuch as they be in steed of Christe and vnder Christe after whiche meaning S. Paule saith to the Corinthians 2. Cor. 2. For if I forgaue any thing to whom I forgaue it for your sakes forgaue I it in persona Christi in the person of Christe and in an other place we are Ambassadours in the steede of Christe 2. Cor. 5. euen as though God did exhorte you through vs. To conclude in fewe according to inward influence of grace into euery faithful member Christe onely is Head of the Churche according to outward gouerning the Pope vnder Christe and in steede of Christe is Head of the same These be my wordes there M. Iewel To whiche bicause you had nothing to saie you answer by your accustomed arte of mangling hewing awaie what liked you not by falsifying them and by putting in your owne selfe wordes in place of myne that teache the truthe And at length you fal to skoffing at my Logique making fonde and peeuish Argumentes of your owne forging bearing the simple reader in hande they are mine whiche God knoweth I neuer made nor no wise man elles For they are suche as of al that peruse your writinges you maie be knowen by them as a Begger is by his patched cloke or rather as a Vise is knowen by his Babul The greatest thing you saie is that al is myne owne tale that I tel and that I bring in no Scripture nor Doctour To this I answere Were it true that you saie as my Booke it selfe prooueth it false yet in this case my Yea hytherto is as good as your Nay and better too bicause it standeth with the vniforme Doctrine of the Churche Be it I allege no Authoritie of Scripture or Doctour to prooue the Pope Head bicause I am not yet comme to the place where I minde to prooue it Yet my case standeth as good as youres that bring neither Scripture nor Doctour to the contrarie If it had pleased you ye might haue founde bothe Doctours and Scriptures more The Rock of the Churche then you would gladly heare of in M. D. Sanders booke entitled the Rocke of the Church written for that behalfe and in M. Sapletons Returne written against your so many grosse Vntruthes and errours The Returne of Vntruths You crake muche of your great skil in Logique in comparison of other mennes ignorance searche out I praie you emong your rules of Logique whether Distinctio multiplicis in quaestione positi the Distinction of a worde that hath diuers significations placed in a controuersie ought not to goe before the disputation of the controuersie If it ought then haue I done rightly and orderly in that I made a Distinction of the terme Head before I entred to proue the Pope to be Head and you ignorantly and disorderly in calling vppon me to doo two thinges together against al good order of nature reason and learning or to doo the later before I had ended the former Testimonies auouching the Pope to be head of the Churche Peter the chiefe mēber of the Churche Gregor li. 4. epis 38. Now bicause you be so hasty to haue some Doctour to proue that the Pope is Head somewhat to satisfie your hasty humour the Authoritie of S. Gregorie afterwarde alleged by your selfe maie suffice any wise man who calleth S. Peter the chiefe member of the Church which the Pope succeding in that right of Peter is al one with that we saie the Pope is Head in gouernment vnder Christe What difference I praie you can your wisedome put betwixte the chiefe member and a Head vnder an other or in the steede of an other Chrysost in Matth. homil 55. It is your happe alwaie to allege Doctours to your owne Confusion S. Chrysostome also witnesseth that Peter was such a Head saying of him Ecclesia Pastor Caput Piscator homo The fisherman by whom he meaneth Peter is the shepehearde and head of the Churche Againe he saith in an other place Quod si quis percontaretur Chrysost in Ioan. Hom. 87. quo modo Iacobus Sedem Hierosolymis acceperit responderem hunc totius orbis magistrum praeposuisse In case any man would demaunde of me this question how Iames came to haue the See at Ierusalem I would answere him that this Peter the Maister of the whole worlde made him Bishop there Lo Peter Maister of the vvhole vvorlde he calleth Peter the Maister of the whole worlde by whiche worde what elles signifieth he but that he was the Head touching spiritual gouernment of the whole worlde He saith furthermore and that most plainely in an other place Ieremiam Genti vni pater Chrysost Hom. 55. in Matth. hunc autem vniuerso terrarum orbi praeposuit God the Father made Ieremie the Head and Gouernour ouer one nation onely that was the nation of the Iewes but as for this man Peter made hed of the vvhole vvorlde by Christ to wit Peter Christe made him Head and Gouernour ouer the whole worlde Are you contented now Verely I haue folowed your minde willingly And if ye require mo the like testimonies of me I remitte you to the Answer Ansvver I made vnto your Chalenge Art 4. fol. 9. b. c. where you shal finde that maie satisfie any learned man touching this pointe Neither are you hable to auoide the plaine force of those testimonies for al the great a doo you haue made in your huge Replie Iewel Pag. 94. Ye saie S. Paule saith If I forgaue any thing for your sakes 2. Cor. 2. I forgaue it in the personne
of the matter laie in any one of them But for that natural reason should partely declare to the ignorant who are not hable to conceiue deeper Argumentes that the Order whiche our Sauiour leafte in his Churche the same to be ruled by one general Head doth so sensibly sticke in euery mannes conceite that vnderstandeth the force of any good natural reason that you or any of your felowes with any heapes of impertinent sentences of al sortes of Writers with whiche you fournish vs out bookes of great bulke shal neuer be hable to prooue the contrarie Disorder not 〈◊〉 reasons M. Iewel take them as my selfe haue sette 〈…〉 marke what force they are of when they be linked in one Then ouerthrowe them if you can I am assured you can not The other three reasons to the which you say ye answered in your Replie are so by M. Stapleton returned vpon you againe and your whole answere reprooued that the worlde now seeth what smal worship ye haue wonne thereby I would aduise you to beginne againe and labour for a more sufficient answere elles you may be sure that menne wel geue you ouer for one that promiseth much and perfourmeth nothing Iewel Pag. 100. I graunt Dissension and quarelles be the sooner ended vvhen al thinges be put ouer to one man so that the same man maie liue for euer and stil continue in one minde and neuer alter Harding M. Iewel alloweth no one man to be ruler except he may liue for euer and continue in one minde which is fonde Liue for euer what a blinde answere is this The .11 Chapt. I praie you Sir did Moyses when he had the gouernement of the people of Israel make an ende of no Dissensions and quarelles emong them I weene you wil say yeas And yet he liued not emonge them for euer pardy Did not Iosue so Did not Samuel Did not Dauid Did not Salomon and others Yet I trowe you wil not say they liued for euer Doth not euery Prince dailie within his owne Realme so Euery Bisshop within his owne Diocese the Archebishop within his owne Prouince And yet ye knowe they liue not for euer Heard euer any man a fonder answere made then this The first foure General Councelles ended diuers matters of contention and yet they that were there liued not for euer For very shame cal backe this vnsauery answere againe or at least put it out of your booke at your nexte Impression if the first finde good vtterance and lye not vpon you handes Iewel Ibidem And stil continevv in one minde and neuer alter Harding That is the very cause perhappes why Archeheretiques can make an ende of no Dissension bicause their mindes doo daily 2. Tim. 3. and hourely alter as S. Paule saieth of certaine curious wemenne that were alwaies learning alwaies talking and babling of Scripture and neuer drawing to any good ende neuer atteining to the knowledge of truthe Princes bounde by M. Ievvel to continue stil in one minde You haue bounde Kinges and Princes very hard to continew stil in one minde and neuer to alter so that if one haue cause to warre against the other after warre once entred they may neuer intreate of peace They muste continew stil in one minde and neuer alter They muste keepe so precise and so holesome a diet that they maie liue for euer If they make any statute that is good and necessarie to be kepte for some one time perhappes for the space of v. or vj. yeres afterwarde when the Continuance of suche statutes shal be founde to breede greate disorder and inconuenience to the Realme it shal not be lawful for them to repeale them bicause M. Iewel hath bounde them to continew in the minde they were and neuer to alter For if they once alter how so euer and wherein so euer it be dissensions and quarelles saith he can not by them be appeased and ended and therefore good gouernment shal faile Iewel Pag. 100. But oftentimes one Pope is founde contrarie to an other Harding Answere to the contrarities in certaine Popes reprehended by M. Iewel and to the violating of Pope Formosus dead Carkasse c. Not so ofte as one king is founde contrarie to an other The .12 Chapt. Read the Stories you shal find it true But Lorde what a doo ye make here about the Contrarieties of certaine Popes and yet you shal neuer finde one Pope contrarie to an other in any article of our Faith as heauy a Maister as you are vnto them But why doo you not cal to minde what varietie of opinions ye haue had emong your selues fith ye brought your Gospel first into the Realme Remember within so shorte a time how many sortes of Communions haue benne seene how many sectes haue risen emong your selues How farre the Puritanes who haue wel nigh tried out the Quintessence of your Gospel Puritanes and perhappes at their nexte proceding wil vtterly denie God how farre I saie they are alienated and diuided from you and that not only for Square cappes and side gownes but also for other matters that in their time shal be reueled I wil saie nothing here of the Arians Anabaptistes Libertines and Atheistes who since the first planting of your Gospel haue crepte into the realme and now swarme in diuers places there vncontrolled who if they had the ful libertie ye preached when ye first laboured to supplante the Catholiques were wel like shortely to set you also beside the stoole But they for that their time is not yet come must doo as they maie and be passed ouer as not seene that al the charitable blowes of your fyrie Gospel might light vpon the Catholiques headdes Your manner alwaies is in the allegation of histories as also of other thinges to adde somwhat of your owne as you doo in telling vs how Pope Steuen vnburied his predecessour Pope Formosus â—abellicus falsified by M. Ievvel Sabellicus Ennead 9. lib. 1. where you reporte that he defaced and mangled his naked carkasse The historie maketh mention of no suche mangling and defacing of his Carkasse onely it sheweth that the forefingers of his right hande whiche had benne annointed and consecrated were cut of and that the Pontifical garmentes wherein Popes were wonte of an olde custome to be buried were taken of from his corps A man that had heard of defacing and mangling a naked carkasse would haue thought that the carkasse had benne hewed in peeces or otherwise spitefully mangled Leaue leaue that il propertie for shame M. Iewel Adde not diminishe not tel stories as you finde them and so shal you geue your Aduersarie lesse aduantage against you It is maruaile it came not into your head by diligent searche to finde out a dissension emong the Popes bicause some of them loued rather to eate fishe then fleshe some vsed to rise sooner in the morning some later some were of stature higher some lower And least your storie should be vnrequitted it were
adding the wordes of Vniuersal Bishop to it whiche are not in the Canon expressed Nay saith he your owne Doctour Gratian doth allege it so This saie I M. Iev falsifieth Gratians meaning is a worse falsehed then the former Gratian vseth to kepe a certaine order and methode in othet places of his booke as he doth in this special place Distin 99. whereof M. Iewel now would faine take aduantage In that Distinction he treateth of Patriarkes saying in the first parte that Archebishoppes must obey Patriarkes In the second that Archebishoppes must not be called ordinarily Primates In the third that the Pope him selfe is not to be called Vniuersal And so doth the Glose diuide this Distinction Glosa in distin 99. beginning thus Haec Distinctio diuiditur in tres partes in quarum prima dicitur quòd vbi erant Primates Gentium olim ibi sunt modò Primates id est Patriarchae qui idem habent officium licet nomina sint diuersa Secunda ibi nulli Archiepiscopi Tertia ibi Vniuersalis This Distinction is diuided into three partes in the firste of whiche it is said that where the Primates of the Heathens were in olde time there are nowe the Primates that is to saie Patriarches who haue the same office that Primates haue although the names be diuers The second parte of this Distinction beginneth at the wordes Nulli Archiepiscopi The third parte beginneth at the worde Vniuersalis This being so it wil folow that Gratian meant to place the Canon of the Councel of Carthage in the second part of his 99. Distinction And so the mater of the vniuersal Bishop is not referred by Gratian to the Councel of Carthage He neuer meant any such thing Neither was there any cause in deede why he should so haue meant The true discussiō of Gratians vvordes in the 99. distinction But it is referred to the third parte of the distinction which foloweth afterward For it is Gratians custom for the connexion of his maters one after an other to put in his own wordes many times wherby to signifie vnto his reader what foloweth These wordes then vniuersalis autem nec etiam Romanus Pontifex appelletur Vnde Pelagius secundus omnibus Episcopis These wordes I saie be Gratians owne wordes whiche are this muche in English Not so much as the Bishop of Rome him selfe maie be called Vniuersal Bishop wherevpon Pelagius the Second writeh to al Bishops If now M. Iewel be so blinde a Lawier as to saie that the wordes Vniuersalis Episcopus c. do apperteine to the former Decree of the Carthage Coūcel and be a peece thereof he maie saie also that these wordes Vnde Pelagius Episcopus c. be wordes of the Carthage Councel For they are no lesse in the same Chapter as it maie seeme But verely a meane wise man might haue seene the difference of these maters And yet M. Iewel is so lustie in his game that he doubteth not to saie Iewel Pag. 121. distin 99. And in the Glose thereupon it is noted thus In hac distinctione dicitur quòd Papa non debet dici Vniuersalis In this distinction it is said that the Pope ought not to be called the Vniuersal Bishop Harding O impudent Gloser Are you not ashamed to shew your peeuish falshed after this sorte Why leafte you out the beginning of the sentēce Why haue you placed and counterfeited the wordes otherwise then thei are in the glose There they are thus written Vniuersalis M. Ievv fovvly falsifieth the Glose vpon Gratian. haec est tertia pars Distinctionis in qua dicitur quòd Papa non debet vocari Vniuersalis This word Vniuersal is the first worde whereat the third parte of the distinction beginneth in whiche third parte it is said that the Pope ought not to be called Vniuersal It is the third parte saith the glose whiche is to saie it is not the second part wherein the Decree of the Councel of Carthage was rehersed it is the third part For as the first part spake of Primates the second of Archebishoppes so the third speaketh of the Pope The Decree of Carthage belongeth to the mater of Archebishoppes and therefore it standeth in the second part Where are now these vaine bragges so ofte doubled by M. Iewel that these wordes Let not the Pope be called the Vniuersal Bishop are the woordes of the Councel of Carthage as Gratian allegeth Pag. 118. They are not the wordes of that Councel neither doth Gratian so allege them nor doth the Glose so take them and consequetly you are like your selfe I neede not tel what Some man perhaps wil saie at the lest they are Gratians wordes and then he holdeth that the Pope ought not to be called the Vniuersal Bishop Concerning that obiection I answer that Gratian doth no more but ioine together diuers decrees and his wordes depende vpon those that folow For he referreth him selfe to the Decrees whiche he there immediatly after reciteth These Decrees are the one of Pope Pelagius the second the other of Pope Gregorie the first whiche both refused the name of Vniuersal Bisshop as also al their successours haue donne But neither of them both refused that sense and meaning of the name wherein the fourh Councel offered that name vnto Pope Leo In vvhat sense the fourthe Coūcel of fred vnto Pope Leo the title of vniuersal Bishop vvhiche the catholiques defende Greg. li. 7 Epis 64. and that sense we only defend To witte that the See of Rome is Head of al Churches and maie correcte or supplie the want of any Church whatsoeuer by sending a Bisshop to it where none is or by deposing him that is vnwotthy of that roume For hereof the same S. Gregorie who refused to be called Vniuersal writeth thus Quod se dicit Primas Bizancenus sedi Apostolicae subijci si quae culpa in Episcopis inuenitur nescio quis ei Episcopus subiectus non sit Cùm verò culpa non exigit omnes secundùm rationem humilitatis aequales sunt Whereas the primate of Constantinople saith he is vnder the Apostolike See A saying of S. Gregorie to be noted touching this whole controuersie if any faulte be founde in the Bishops I know not what Bishop is not subiect hereunto But when no faulte requireth so al are equal according as humilitie would it should be Concerning the Supremacie of the Bishoppe of Rome I thinke it not conuenient to stande here any longer about it seing al the Articles therof are sufficiently by me handled already both in my Answer to the Chalenge and also in the Confutatiō of th'Apologie M. Dorman also hath answered to the Obiection out of the sixth Coūcel of Carthage and M. Stapleton hath wel handled the mater of Appeales of the cōfirmation of Councels of the Popes iurisdiction ouer the East and of their not erring in the faith D. Saunder hath shewed Peter to be the Rocke
and the Popes to be his successours He hath shewed also how the other Apostles were equal with Peter and how in other respectes they had lesse power for ordinarie continuance in their successours then Peter had But if I were of M. Iewels boasting humour I should now dissemble al this and write it in here a fresh as though nothing had benne said thereof before But I trowe wise men espie that smoky pride in him wel ynough I wisse lesse bookes might haue serued him for any good stuffe that is to be founde in them The fourth Booke conteineth a ful refutation of al that M. Iewel hath laid together in his pretensed Defence touching the Succession of Bishops in the Churche from the Apostles time vnto this present age Item a proufe of the necessitie of Confession WRITING the Confutation of the Apologie I had occasion to speake of the Succession of Bishoppes Thereto M. Iewel in his pretensed Defence hath replied at great length Wherein bicause he may perhaps to the vnlearned seme to haue some colour of aduantage against vs the matter being of good weight I iudge it not vnprofitable to bestow some labour and here to coÌ„fute his whole Defence touching that point whereby I doubte not it shal appeare how litle credite he deserueth if his sayinges be throughly examined where he blazeth forth most shew of learning That it maie appeare how directly he answereth the pointes of this Controuersie and of what pith his owne sayinges and how muche to the purpose his testimonies be and how truly alleged and that al be made the more plaine and cleere I wil reherse first the place of the Apologie that gaue me occasion to treat of Succession then the wordes of my Confutation against whiche M. Iewel bendeth the force of his Defence After this I wil laie forth his whole Defence sentence by sentence worde by worde as I finde it in his booke and so briefly as I can refel the same I am driuen to reherse that discourse of my Confutation againe bicause a great parte of the Defence depending thereof and being directed against the same onlesse it were againe by rehersal commended to the readers view and memorie our whole disputation would be obscure and vncertaine And this haue I donne also the rather to thintent the reader might haue that parte of my Confutation intier and whole whiche M. Iewel hath caused to be set forth in his booke pared hewed dismembred and altogether disgraced The Apologie parte 2. Cap. 5. Diuis 1. in the Defence Pag. 125. Furthermore vve saie that the miâ—ister ought laufully duely and orderly to be preferred to that office of the Church of God and that no man hath povver to vvrest him selfe into the holy Ministerie at his ovvne pleasure VVherefore these persons do vs the greater vvrong vvhiche haue nothing so common in their mouthes as that vve do nothing orderly and comely but al thinges troublesomly and vvithout order and that vve allovv euery man to be a priest to be a teacher and to be an interpretour of the scriptures Confutation fol. 56. a. Al from starre to starre leafte out by M. Ievvel Saing and doing are two thinges Ye saye wel in outward appearance Would God your doing were accordingly Albeit the manner of your saying had ben more coÌ„mendable if in so weighty a point you had spokeÌ„ more particularly and distinctly not so generally and confusely * Ye saye that the minister ought laufully to be called for so hath your Latine and duely and orderly to be preferred to that office of the Churche of God Why do ye not so why is not this obserued among you Gospellers What so euer ye meane by your Minister and by that office this are we assured of that in this your new Church Bishops Priestes Deacons Subdeacons or any other inferiour Orders ye haue none No holy orders among the gospellers Leâ—â— out by M. Ievvel In saying thus we speake not of our Apostates that be fledde from vs vnto your congregations Who as they remaine in the order which they receiued in the catholike Church so being diuided and cut of from the Church and excommunicate laufully they may not minister the sacramentes * For where as after the doctrine of your newe Gospel like the foreronners of Antichrist ye haue abandoned thexternal Sacrifice and priesthod of the newe Testament and haue not in your secte consecrated Bishops and therefore being without Priestes made with lawfull laying on of handes as Scripture requireth al holy Orders being geuen by Bishops only how can ye saie that any among you can laufully minister or that ye haue any lauful Ministers at al This then being so let me haue leaue to oppose one of these Defenders consciences And that for the better vnderstanding I may directe my wordes to a certaine person let him be the author of this Apologie or bicause his name to me is vnknowen let him be M. Iewel for with him gladly would I reason in this point the rather for acquaintaince and for that he beareth the name of a Bishop in that Churche where my selfe had a rome How saye you Syr minister Bishop ought the Minister to be laufully called ought he duely and orderly to be preferred to that office or as the Latine here hath promoted or put in authoritie ouer the Church in the Apologie this Defender saith yea Leaft out by M. Ievvel Then answer me directely How proue you your selfe laufully called to the roume you take vpon you to occupie First touching the ordinary Succession of Bishops from which as you knowe S. Iraeneus Tertullian Optatus and S. Augustine bring argument and testimonie of right and true religion do you allow the same with those fathers or no If not then dissent you from the learned and most vncorrupte antiquitie which is not reasonable neither then are you to be heard If yea then how can you recken vs vp your succession by which you may referre your imposition of handes and consecration to some of the Apostles or of their scholers as the foresaid fathers did to repel the nouelties of heresies and defende their continual possession of the Churche Which if ye go about how can ye but to the great hinderance of your cause bewraye your weake holde For whereas succession of doctrine must be ioyned with the succession of persons as Caluine in his institutions affirmeth and Beza auouched at the assemblie of Poyssi in Fraunce and we also graunt Succession of doctrine ioyned vvith succession of persons how many Bishoppes can you recken whom in the Churche of Sarisburie you haue succeded as wel in doctrine as in outward sitting in that chayre How many can you tel vs of that being your Predecessours in order before you were of your opinion and taught the faithful people of that Dioces the doctrine that you teache Dyd Bishop Capon teach your doctrine did Shaxton did Campegius did Bishop Audley Briefly did euer any Bishop of that See
the first fiue hundred yeres the Sacrament of the Aultare was geuen to children at their baptisme And yet M. Iewel can not saie that this later custome is worse then the first was but rather that it is better as the councel of Trent hath declared I demaunde then of any M. Iewels Predecessours in Sarisburie euen til our Apostle S. Augustines time but he skippeth ouer these last thowsand yeres and asketh me of that which was before Whiche inequalitie not withstanding I answer to his question and saie that al the Bishops of Rome as wel before S. Augustines time as sithence mainteined our Religion And that I proue bicause the B. of Rome that now is Pius the fifth doth allow our Religion For we communicate with him and he with vs. And this present Bishop agreed with his predecessour Pius the fourth and he againe with Paulus the fourth And so if we go vpward from man to man from Pope to Pope euen vnto S. Gregories time we shal find that concerning any question which is betwen the ProtestaÌ„tes and vs there was neuer Pope yet which disagreed with his predecessours or aftercommers For euery one of them doth prayse and follow S. Gregorie Now S Gregorie sent S. Augustine into England who turned our English nation to the faith and S. Gregorie him selfe agreed in saith with his predecessours euen til we come to S. Peter Neither can it be shewed whiche Pope did euer breake or change the vniuersal faith which was in Rome or any where els before concerning either priuate Masse as you terme it or any other Article If then Pius the fifth or any Pope els do allow priuate Masse as it is euident he doth and the General Councel of Trent with him certainely euery Pope before him did allow the same For this Pope agreeth with his predecessours Or els if vntil S. Gregories time priuate Masse in such sense as we now dispute of it had not ben heard of being so hainous an offence against God as that whereby the Institution of Christes supper is broken which Pope so euer had begonne it he should haue ben noted for his new Inuention as they haue ben who haue begonne any change as in certaine ceremonies some haue done Platina in vitis Pontifi For pope Sergius is noted to haue ben the first that changed his former name Leo the third was the first that placed the empire in Fraunce and Germanie and Hadrianus the third was the first that chalenged to be pope without the Emperours authoritie and so forth in many like matters But seing M. Iewel can name no man who beganne to saie or allow priuate Masse and yet seing it is said and allowed thoroughout al Christendom it is S. Augustines owne rule that the said vse of priuate Masse came from the Apostles them selues For thus he writeth August ad Ianuarium Epist 118. Quod vniuersa tenet Ecclesia nee Concilijs institutum sed semper retentum est non nisi authoritate Apostolica traditum rectissimè creditur What thing the whole Churche keepeth and hath not ben instituted in Councels but hath ben alwayes reteined the same is most rightly beleued to haue ben deliuered none otherwise then by Apostolike authoritie Neither M. Iewel nor any man els can shew vs which CouÌ„cel instituted first Priuate masse and the Church from age to age is found to haue had priuate masse neither can any one man be named that first said it therfore priuat Masse and also the other necessary pointes of our religion are most rightly beleued to haue proceded onely from the Apostolique authoritie Thus I haue answered M. Iewels question Now let him answer myne Iewel Touching the Bishops of Sarisburie you your selfe haue named tvvo Bishop Shaxton and Bishop Capon both learned and graue fathers and both preachers and professours of the gospel Harding Bishop Shaxton not to be accoÌ„pted of M. Iew els syde Emong the wise a man is accompted to be suche as that is be it good or euil wherein he maketh abode and what thing is done by a man but once or seldom and wherein he maketh no continuance thereof he hath not his name For example he is not accoumpted vertuous and iuste who once or very seldom doth vertuously or iustly Aristotel in Ethicis Vna Hirundo noÌ„ facit ver Math. 10. but he that doth often so and stil desireth so to do This much M. Iewel you shoulde haue learned of Aristotle who teacheth you that it is not one Swalow that maketh the Springtide After this sense Christe him selfe said they are blessed that continue vntil the ende But Bisshop Shaxton although he sometime preached certaine partes of your doctrine as a man being deceiued by Luthers and the Lutheranes bookes before he had wel examined them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet he continued not in your congregation but repented him earnestly of it and reuoked his former vnaduised doinges If then his iudgement with you be of some accoumpte his last iudgement must stand It is said you know by the wise and reason so geueth that the second thoughtes are better aduised and of more wisedome To saie few it is wel knowen in al therealme that he died a Catholique and coulde by no meanes be brought to reuolte to you againe in al King Edwardes time And so you haue no helpe by B. Shaxton Touching bishop Capon he was neuer in his life wholy of your beleefe Bishop Capon â—o Protestant none otherwise but as euery man most loueth him selfe and the thinges of the worlde so he is the more enclined to your side and hath the more liking of your lewde fleshly and licencious Doctrine And who that is more carried awaie with the lustes of the fleshe then is ruled by the aduises of the Spirite would not be glad to hearken vnto such a fleshly Gospel and as it were vpon a softe coishon to leane the elbowes of his loose conscience Whereby I meane not to accuse that Bishop of any vnknowen crime but only to shewe that whiles he was loth to displease the Prince and glad to please him selfe and for feare confourmed him selfe to the worlde he seemed to fauoure sundrie pointes of your proceedinges and in some parte rather did like vnto you then beleeued as you do as it is wel knowen by the order of his life and specially by his ende whiche trieth a man best at what time he shewed him selfe thoroughly Catholique and hartily repented that he had euer gonne so farre with you And bicause he was knowen not to haue ben of your side in harte he was suffered to keepe his state and bishoprike in Quene Maries time when al the Protestantes were remoued from suche roumes Thus haue you neither Shaxton nor Capon for your predecessour and consequently you are as S. Cyprian said of Nouatian Nemini succedens à teipso ordinatus Cypria li. 1. epist 6. a Bishop succeding no man but ordeined of your selfe Which thing would
is that M. Ievvel perfourmeth in this mater of Priestes and Votaries marriages Now commeth me M. Iewel in and allegeth Doctours as thicke as haile olde and newe knowen and vnknowen allowed and disallowed Schoolemen and Summistes vea the very marginal Annotations vpon the Glose of Gratian are haled in to helpe at a pintche and yet al helpeth not Of his owne in manner he saith nothing but thus Origen saith Tertullian saith suche a one saith and suche an other saith and he saith and againe he saith c. Then he laith downe their Latine be it true be it false and putteth a translation vnto it suche as becommeth shifters to vse in a false matter and thus furnisheth out a great booke that the worlde may thinke he is a great Clerke Were al that he allegeth to the purpose then were it somewhat yet were it no great commendation to make bookes onely out of Notebookes already made and gathered to his handes First to declare his order keeping him selfe a luffe of M Iewels order in his treatie of this pointe and his tvvo principles and comming nothing neare the point wherein my Confutation consisteth he bringeth the holy Fathers into suspicion of not dealing vprightly and indifferently herein bearing the Reader in hande they haue swarued from truth either in the auauncing of Virginitie or els in the disgracing of lawful Matrimonie To make proufe of this he allegeth no smal number of sentences out of certaine Fathers in whiche not being thoroughly examined they seeme to speake hardly of Marriage specially of the second Mariage For this point his Doctours be these Tertullian in Exhortatione ad Castitatem the author of the vnperfite worke vpon S. Matthew whom he calleth Chrysostom whereas it is wel knowen not to be his as that whiche conteineth sundry heinous heresies S. Hierome writing against Iouinian Heluidius and to Gerontia Athenagoras in Apologia pro Christianis Nazianzen in dictum Euangelij Cùm perfecisset Iesus c. Origen in Lucam Homilia 17. for which his cotation hath Homil. 19. Nexte he reckeneth vp so many menne as he hath read of that being Married were afterwardes made Bisshops Of whom he saith that they vsed Mariage them selues in their owne personnes which is more then he is liable to proue if by vse of Marriage he meane the carnal copulation M. Iewels tvvo Principles These two that is to say the Fathers disgracing of Matrimonie and their hauing of wiues them selues he calleth by the name of his two Principles whiche being laid he maketh his stoute vaunte that he is the better hable to consider the substance of my reasons for so he saith and there at length he addresseth him selfe to shape an Answere to the parte of my Confutation aboue sette out Now to say somewhat to his Principles before I come to his Answer were it true that certaine Fathers speaking of Matrimonie vsed immoderate and extraordinarie speaches for so he termeth them Againe that many of them had ben married before they came to be Bishops what perteineth that to the defence of the marriage of Votaries and Priestes whiche was the point presently treated of What wil he make this fonde and childish Argument Certaine Fathers spake ouer vehemētly concerning Matrimonie Item some of them were called to the dignitie of Bishops from the state of married menne Ergo Priestes Monkes Friers and Nonnes who haue vowed Chastitie may lawfully marrie wiues and take husbandes Truly either this is his reason or els hitherto he hath no reason at al. And of what smal substance this reason is the veriest Cobblers of al their Ministers if they can reade any English besides their communion booke may easily perceiue Touching the Fathers speaches in reproufe of Matrimonie one answer M. Iewel Ansvver to M. Ievvels doctours in manner may serue to refute al that you would inferre of their sayinges Onely I excepte Tertullian who being fallen into the fowle Heresie of Montanus in his booke intituled Exhortatio ad castitatem wrote otherwise of Marriage specially in that he condemned second marriage then the Catholique Church holdeth or the trueth beareth And S. Hierome witnesseth as Beatus Rhenanus noteth that booke to haue ben written against the Churche Now we thinke not our selues bounde to defende what so euer they say whom the Churche condemneth for Heretiques As for Origen likewise you knowe of how litle credite he is in regard of sundry great errours albeit touching the case of the second and third Mariage The Fathers cal immoderate luste an euil thing for vvhiche they be thought of some vnlearned to reproue marriage De peccato originali contra Pelag. Coelestiū lib. 2. c. 37 Lib 1. de Nuptiu et Concupiscent c. 22 speaking where of you allege him he may better be defended then Tertullian may As concerning the other Fathers by you alleged the thing for which they seeme sometimes to speake of Matrimonie not fauorably is the immoderate concupiscence or luste now after sinne by our first parentes committed which is of the holy Fathers reported to be malum asmuch to say an euil thing and to procede not of God but of sinne without which euil thing the thing that is good in Matrimonie that is to say generation can not be perfourmed This besides other Fathers S. Augustine calleth oftentimes malum an euil thing as carnalis concupiscentiae malum the euil of fleshly luste and malum libidinis the euil thing of carnal pleasure c. He saith that natural shamefastnesse sheweth it so to be by whiche it commeth to passe that although married personnes glorie in Children yet when they attend vpon the worke of begeting Children they choose them selues secrete places and wil al witnesses to be out of their waie thereby confessing the shamefastnesse it selfe of Nature And this muche our first Parentes confessed after they had sinned Gen. 3. by that they were ashamed and coouered their shamely partes with Figge tree leaues as the Scripture plainely declareth Neither proceedeth this euil thing of Marriage but of sinne August in Psal 70. and it is the paine of sinne In married personnes it is euil but no sinne malum poenae not malum culpae as the Scholastical Diuines cal it And this is the meaning of that saying of the authour that wrote the vnperfite worke vppon S. Matthew Opere imperfecto in Matth. Hom. 1. sub finem whome you wil needes to be S. Chrysostome The saying is this Haec ipsa Coniunctio Maritalis malum est ante Deum Non dico Peccatum sed malum This very wedlocke Coniunction it selfe is an euil thing before God I saie not it is Sinne but I saie it is an euil thing In translating whiche woordes you doo very falsly demeane your selfe and beguyle your vnlearned Reader For in that place the authour meaneth not by Coniunctio Matrialis the Copulation of Matrimonie as you translate it as though he said VVhat is that vvhich is of the
make vs one Pope who is neither Priestes nor laie maÌ„nes sonne nor any maÌ„nes sonne at al. What a maruelous Prophet then was M. Iewels Damasus that could thus prophecie of so many Popes so long to come after his death and tel who should be their fathers so many yeres before their great GraÌ„dfathers were borne If for some excuse you say that this much you found in Gratian Distinct 56. it caÌ„ not helpe you The printed Gratian hath neither this forme of wordes nor this order of names nor so many Popes names by three For he hameth not Iohn 10. nor Iohn 15. nor Adrian 2. So that you must take it vpon you your selfe and beare the shame of it And what if the book of Gratian had it as you haue alleged Doo you not know that such thinges in Gratian be of no authoritie sometimes which be rehersed vnder this worde Palea Palea Palea good Reader is asmuche to say as Chaffe and where so euer this word Palea Chaffe is put in Gratian by the same it is signified as some doo iudge that the saying immediatly folowing is with litle iudgement infarced and that it is litle worth as Chaffe is litle worth in coÌ„parison of cleane wheate Such Chaffe and vaine fables M. Iewel is dryuen to take holde of to mainteine his brothers filthinesse for lacke of better stuffe And were it true that these Popes or some of them whose names be founde here in Gratians Chaffe were Priestes sonnes yet had he benne a true dealer in this cause he should not so vniustly haue conceeled what the Glose saith in the same place specially seing that he is so wel acquainted with the Glose and furnisheth his great booke specially and aboue al other Doctours with the stuffe of the Glose Thus there we finde Distinct 56. in Glossa Omnia ista exempla intellige de ijs qui in Laicali statu vel minoribus ordinibus orationibus parentum suscepti sunt quando suis parentibus licebat vti vxoribus suis Vnderstande thou al these examples of them that were receiued at Goddes hande by the prayers of their fathers being in the state of laie menne or in the lesser Orders when their fathers might lawfully vse their wiues Thus for any thing you haue brought hitherto is your Great Poste of Priestes Marriages thwited to a pudding pricke As for that whiche after al this you pretende to allege out of AEneas Syluius AEneas Syluius whom you cal Pope Pius whereas at the time when he wrote De gestis Concilij Basiliensis he was neither Pope nor Pius and out of Polydorus Vergilius Polydorus Vergil the late Prebendarie of Poules in London whom in the Chronicles you reporte falsly and laste of al out of fabling Fabian Fabian the late Merchant of London a man of smal learning and of as litle authoritie in these pointes though a special fauourer of your side as it is tolde and therefore the readier to reporte vntruth I am sure menne of meane knowledge wil litle esteme and I accompt it not worth the answering Make the best you can of it thereby perhaps or by some part of it ye may proue that of Married menne some were made Bishops which as I haue oftentimes tolde you we denie not but that Bishoppes or Priestes were euer in any wel ordered Churche permitted to marrie you shal neuer be hable to proue Now that you haue laid your two Principles as you cal them let vs see how substancially you defende your foure pointes aboue mencioned And first that it is lawful to marry after the Vowe of Chastitie and after holy Orders taken shewe vs by what learning or authoritie ye proue it Iewel First of al his obiection of Vovves nothing toucheth the Clergie of England For it is knovven and confessed that the Priestes of England vvere neuer Vâ—taries Yet for further ansvver vve graunte it is reason and conuenient that vvho so hath made a Vovve vnto God should keepe his promise Cyril in Leuitic Lib. 3. Cyrillus saith Si castitatem promiserit seruarâ— non poterit pronunciet peccatum suum If he haue promised 〈…〉 vvovved Chastitie and can not keepe it let him pronounce and confesse his Sinne. Harding How long wil you go about the bush as they say when come you to the purpose These bye matters not touched in my ConfutatioÌ„ haue made your booke great but the same geue euidence that you put more truste in multitude of wordes then in substance of matter If ye had the cleare truthe on your side what needed so many wordes One plaine sentence might haue better serued you That you wander not abroad here once againe I cal you home and require you to leaue your delaies and answer to the very point or to confesse your errour Remember my wordes of the Confutation be these It is not lawful for them to marrie Confutat fol. 73. b. which either haue by deliberate vowe dedicated al manner their chastitie vnto God or haue receiued holy Order Ouer against these my wordes you haue placed in the margent of your booke this note with your starre Defence pag. 163. Vntruthes two together as better appeareth by the Answeare By which you charge my saying with two Vntruthes Of such notes your booke hath great stoare But God be thanked the world seeth you are ryfer of vpbraidinges and sclaunders then of substantial proufes Nowe by your note you haue bounde your selfe to shewe vs that it is lawful to marrie after the Vowe of Chastitie likewise also after the holy Orders taken Before you came to proue either of these two pointes you tel vs that the Priestes of England were neuer Votaries that is to say that they neuer made Vow of single life and chastitie whereby to binde them selues not to marrie Neuer is a long daie M. Iewel Wel be it as it is If they be not Votaries they may marrie say you But answer directly to the point I pray you M. Ievvel ful coldly maketh that but reasonable and coÌ„uenieÌ„t that is necessary May they marrie who haue vowed chastitie Say yea or nay VVee graunte say you it is reason and conuenient that who so hath made a Vowe vnto God should keepe his promise This is somewhat though it be coldely spoken But yet you must come nearer vnto the point You speake generally and faintly We speake not of a Vowe or promise in general If a man make a promise to an other man it is reason and conuenient that he keepe it But how saie you to the vow of chastitie deliberatly made of man or woman to God Is it in any wise necessary to perfourme it or no If it be necessary why speake ye so coldly it is reason and conuenient What meane you by your reason and conuenience Is it any more but that if a Moncke or a Frier feele him selfe moued with luste he shal by and by take a woman vnder pretense of Wedlocke and so
be sure to liue for ouer the whiche no euil man can eate For if it could so be that he who continueth euil stil should eate the worde made fleash whereas it is the woorde and liuing bread it should not haue ben written whosoeuer eateth this bread shal liue for euer Origen fovvly corrupted by M. Ievv These are the true wordes of Origen But M. Iewel hath so mangled them that the sense is cleane altered For in steede of verbuÌ„ caro factum the worde made flesh he hath placed the body of Christ referring it to the Sacrament And whereas in Origen it is edere verbum factum carnem to eate the word made flesh he hath made exchange thereof into edere corpus Domini to eate the body of our Lorde And so whereas Origen meant that euil men can not eate spiritually and effectually the Diuinitie of Christ so as it dwelleth corporally in his flesh M. Iewel hath taught him to say that an euil man can not in the Sacrament eate Christes bodie Iewel Pag. 210. VVe say vvith S. Augustine the Sacrament is not our Lorde In Iohan. Tract 5â— but the bread of our Lord. Harding S. Augustin denieth not the SacrameÌ„t to be our Lord he hath no such wordes Howbeit we our selues would denie it in some sense For some tyme the Sacrament is taken for the forme of bread and wine and that in deede is not our Lord. Iewel 212. M. Harding might accompt not only seuen but also seuenteen sundry Sacramentes Harding I accompt onely seuen in such sense as the Churche properly taketh a Sacrament And how that is I shewed before Iewel pag. 213. Thus vve say it can not be proued that this number is so specially appointed As for the reasons of seuen seales seuen trumpettes seuen starres seuen golden Candelstikes and seuen eyes they are childish Harding We ground not our seuen Sacramentes vppon those similitudes Seuen Sacrametes August de Ciuit. Dei li. 11. c. 30. de doctrina Christiana lib. 2. cap. 16. Albeit if any man applie some of those matters to the seuen Sacramentes it is not childishely done seing S. Augustine confesseth that the Mysteries of numbers be great in the holy scriptures Iewel 213. Vnto euery Sacrament tvvo thinges are necessarie a sensible outvvard Element as in Baptisme VVater in our Lordes Supper Bread and VVine and the vvord of Institution Harding Thus farre we are agreed with you Iewel Matrimonie Order and penaunce haue the vvoorde of God but they haue no outvvard creature or Element Extrems Vnction and Confirmation haue neither vvoorde nor Element Harding To answere you herein M. Iewel I can not doo better Conci Florentin in vnione Armeniorum then to send you to the Councel of Florence and to the bookes wherein the order of our Sacramentes are conteined Where you shal finde that there lacketh neither the woorde of Institution nor conuenient Element It is yenough to vs that both by the woorde of God and by the perpetual doctrine of the Churche we are taught Act. 8. Iacob 5. Luc. 22. Ioan. 20. that these seuen are Sacramentes Confirmation is proued in the Actes of the Apostles Extreme Vnction in the Epistle of S. Iames Order in S. Luke and in S. Iohn Now baptisme and our Lordes supper your selfe graunt of penaunce and Matrimonie I haue said sufficiently already To be short we are in possession of seuen Sacramentes neither can you nor any man now aliue or that euer liued sith the Apostles shewe that euer the Church was without so many Sacramentes Impugne them when you list I doubt not but you shal be answered For that ye haue said hitherto is litle worthe and most thinges are lyes Iewel pag. 213. 214. De SacrameÌ„tâ— Eucharistia The auncient Fathers hauing occasion to intreate of purpose and specially hereof speake only of tvvo Sacramentes and so Bessarion namely saith Harding None of them al hath written purposely of al the Sacramentes of the Church but as occasion serued M. Ievvel belyeth the ancient Fathers touching the number of the SacrameÌ„tes Dionysius De Ecclesiast Hierarch TertulliaÌ„ lib. de resur carnis Cyprian lib. 2. Epist 1. ad StephanuÌ„ Bessarion de SacrameÌ„to Eucharistiae Bessarion belyed by M. Ievvel they now speake of two now of moe Of two they speake the more specially bicause the custome was to geue them both together to those that were of discretion Howbeit Dionysius Areopagita the most auncient of al intreateth of many moe as his booke de Ecclesiastica Hierarchia doth witnesse Tertullian besides Baptisme and the body of Christ nameth together with them Anointing and Signing and Imposition of handes And the Doctours which you bring affirme two but they denie not moe Yea S. Cyprian whom you cite in the first place can not be proued there to meane by both Sacramentes Baptisme and the supper of our Lorde Bessarion saith two were deliuered plainely in the Scriptures but he confesseth moe whiche are deliuered also in the Scriptures though not so plainely as the other two And he expressely nameth Chrismatis Sacramentum the Sacrament of Confirmation or of Bishopping Of the other Sacramentes in general he speaketh twise in the beginning of that Treatie Wherefore there is an impudâ—nt he included in your wordes where you saie that I haue in expresse wordes The onely two Sacraments of the Churche So that nowe we maie couple you with Beza â—â—o teacheth the same doctrine in his Confession and iuâ—â—ly cal you bothe false teachers Iewel 214. Al these thinges not vvithstanding the Tridentine Councel concludeth seuen Sacramentes Harding So it ought and maie easily doo M. Iewel any thing that you haue yet brought notwithstanding You proue in dede that there are two Sacramentes but that there are no moe you haue not brought so much as one apparent authoritie Sauing that of Bessarion who neuerthelesse is vtterly against you For he beleued and taught that there were seuen Sacramentes Bessarion De Sacramento Eucharistiae as by that Treatie it maye wel appeare But what should I do good reader should I now proue that there are seuen Sacramentes Certainely it were easy for me so to doo and to set out a booke of that Argument farre greater then M. Iewels is And that may wel appeare true by that Ruardus Tapper Cardinal Hosius and Petrus a Soto with diuers other learned menne haue done in this behalfe I am sure M. Iewel wil not denie but I were hable to english at the lest that which I should find in their Latin bookes And yet therein standeth his whole shewe For in deede he doth litle els but english that which the Germaines and Geneuians bookes haue The 7. SacrameÌ„tes proued out of S. Augustine Augustiniana CoÌ„fessio The vntruthes and scoffes that he addeth of his owne though they be many in number yet doo they not greatly increase the bulke of his volume Besides al other Catholique bookes there hath one benne set forth
vertue Hieron Lib. 1. aduersus Pelagianos Double Perfectiō Againe in an other place Perspicuum est duas in scripturis sanctis esse perfectiones duasque iustitias duos timores Primam perfectiomem incomparabilem veritatem perfectamque iustitiam Dei virtutibus coaptandam Secundam autem quae competit nostrae fragilitati iuxtà illud quod in psalmis dicitur non iustificabitur in conspectu tuo omnis viuens ad eam iustitiam quae non comparatione sed Dei scientia dicitur esse perfecta It is manifest that in the holy Scriptures there are two perfectiōs and two righteousnesses and two feares And that there is a first perfection and an incomparable truthe and a perfite righteousnesse which is to be set with the vertues of God And that there is a second perfection whiche standeth with our frailtie A distinction vvherby al M. Ievvels obeictiōs maie sone be ansvvered touching this point The Pelagians heresie according to that whiche is said in the Psalmes Euerie one that liueth shal not be accompted righteous in thy sight asmuch to saie in comparison of that righteousnes which not in comparison but in the knowledge of God is said to be perfite By this double perfection al is answered what so euer M. Iewel bringeth against vs either out of the Scriptures or out of the Fathers It is possible to doo the law in this life after that perfection which belongeth to Pilgrimes but not after that which belongeth to Heauen But the Pelagians held that a man might if he would perfourme the perfection and that by the benefites of nature and by free wil without grace If a man consider the doctrine whiche we haue taught hitherto concerning Perfection it shal appeare that many thinges which M. Iewel hath alleged in the Defence are of vs confessed Whereof then riseth the difference verely of the wordes of the Apologie In the Apologie Defence pag. 315. which are these Wee are hable by no meanes to fulfil the lawe of God in this life This proposition M. Iewel I haue confuted This haue you taken in hande to defende But in al your Defence I finde nothing to that purpose I haue now shewed By vvhat meanes vve fulfil the lavv that by some meanes we may fulfil the lawe to wit by present faith and hope and by going daily forward in Charitie vntil we come to perfection in Heauen Furthermore we maie die also for Goddes sake The glad sufferāce of death for Christes sake is one meane to fulfil Godslaw Cap. 1. vlt. and for the defence of his truth This is one meane whereby the lawe is fulfilled Therefore your Proposition remaineth stil giltie of erroneus doctrine Besides this it is not impossible for a man actually to fulfil the lawe in this life bicause God may geue a man so muche grace as to doo it if it please him as S. Augustine hath declared twise in his booke De spiritu litera Therefore by some meanes we may be able to fulfil the lawe and that perfitely although I confesse we doo not fulfil it But remember you said not onely we do not fulfil the law but that wee are not hable to fulfil it by no meanes Whereby you abbridge the power of God For Gods singular grace is a meane to perfourme it S. Hierome also graunted to Pelagius possibilia mandata dedit Deus Ad Ctesiphont quis hoc negat The commaundementes whiche God gaue vs are possible to be don and who saith nay thereto Forsooth M Iewel in his Apologie Of Faith without Workes and of the Merite of good workes The 12. Chapter I Had said there is a true Faith whiche is not liuely but idle M. Iewel after his florish made at diuers Scholemen of whom I intende not muche to speake saith thus Iewel Pag. 320. 1. Tim. 5. Tit. 1. He that hath no regarde to his owne specially such as be of his howsehold hath denied the faith and is worse then an infidel And againe they saie they know God but by their workes they denie God Harding This is brought to proue that in euery great Sinne at the lest we lose our Faith Adde hereunto that whiche Martin Luther said In Artic. 35. Nemo est certus se non semper peccare mortaliter propter occultissimum superbiae vitium Noman is sure that he sinneth not alwayes mortally for the most priuie vice of pride If then at euery mortal sinne the faith be lost and noman be sure but that he is alwayes a mortal sinner doubtelesse no man is sure that he hath any Faith And so Only faith is brought to no faith at al. Onely Faith become no faith at al. 1. Tim. 5. Faith denied by euil vvorkes Tit. 1. Double knovveledge of God Of Vnderstāding and of vvil and obedience Naked Faith Faith clothed vvith Charitie So wel these men profit in their Doctrine But how saith S. Paule that he who hath not care of his houshold hath denied the faith Surely M. Iewel answereth him selfe out of S. Paule who saith They professe them selues to knowe God but by their deedes they denie him For so S. Chrisostome also doth expound the former of these places by the later So that there is a double knowledge one in the vnderstanding onely which those haue that beleeue in God and breake his commaundementes by killing or stealing or any other mortal sinne There is another knowing of God in wil and obedience of hart when a man preuented with grace is desirous to doo and kepe Gods commaundementes which are not heauy nor greuous to him that hath grace The first kinde of knowledge is bare and naked Faith The second is Faith furnished and clothed with Charitie This later Faith he hath denied who doth not take care of his howsehold and of them of his kinne c. But that notwithstanding the former Faith remaineth bicause he may yet beleeue al the Articles of the Faith which verely seing it is a grace of God and a great furtherance to euerlasting life and yet hath none other name at al euer inuented for it beside the name of Faith it must needes be a true Faith though it be not a profitable Faith as al Theeues and Periured persons are true men in nature though they be not honest menne in maners nor true menne of their deedes Al which wordes vttered in manner with the same order in my Confutation M. Iewel hath quite striken out of his booke of Defence bicause they opened the point of the controuersie There I said Faith Hoape and Charitie were three 1. Cor. 13. And that as there is a Faith working by Charitie of great profit so is there a Faith whiche may be without Charitie nothing worthe to euerlasting life Iewel Pag. 320. Iacob 2. S. Iames saith Faith without workes is dead but a dead faith is no more a true perfite faith then a dead man is a true perfite man Harding Did not you
volume as it appeareth bothe otherwise Illyricus Luthers great defender a special Doctor of M. Ievvelles and also by your owne quotations out of that worke Yet he allegeth alwaies there and in other of his suche the like rash and false scriblinges Dominicus à Soto by his right name But this errour or ignorance might peraduenture be asscribed to some of your gatherers of stuffe and coadiutours sauing that you wil needes take vppon you al the faulte your selfe and discharge al others thereof as you haue admonished the reader in your View of Vntruthes where thus you saie what soeuer errour shal be founde in any my writinges I wil discharge bothe my Clerke and the Compositour and the Printer of the same and take the whole vpon my selfe Moreouer to shew your constancie in this errour B. iij. b. you doo allege Pag. 499. Petrus à Soto de natura gratia whereas he neuer wrote any suche worke but Dominus à Soto And herein it is to be noted also that you neither quote the number of the booke nor of the Chapter where that saying is to be founde But by like you went by heresaie and reporte and so lefte your reader to seeke at aduenture that he should either not finde or elles so hardly find that he would be lothe to take the paines to looke for it You tel me in an other place that my frende Catharinus saith I can not tel what of Schole writers Pag. 571. and you referre me in the Margent to a booke of his against Petrus a Soto But I am sure you neuer sawe any such booke against that person Wel it might be against Dominicus a Soto A man maie thinke that you reade these thinges with spectacles of a false sighte that you were neuer hable to discerne Dominicus from Petrus or elles that you wrote yow knewe not what in a dreame Pag. 169. AlphoÌ„sus de Castro mistaken by M. Ievvel for AlphoÌ„sus Viruesius Bishop of the Canaries You allege vnto me about vowes one of my greatest Doctours as you cal him Alphonsus de Castro Philippica 19. Howe great soeuer he be with me it maie be iustely said that you are greatly beholding vnto him if he make so often for you as you allege him For he hath holpen you with stuffe euen for your owne tooth as you haue handled the matter But I praie you did you euer see his Philippicas bicause you allege the 19 I know not what spectacles you vse but if you reade no better and were in case as some be who haue not murdered so many bodies as you haue soules you might be put to a harde disstresse in time of neede at the Sessions and be refused for not reading vt Clericus For as it appeareth your reading is quite beside the booke Shew me any suche booke of Alphonsus de Castro and you shal be quitte by Proclamation of al your false reportes which are more and greater then a man would weene that is not acquainted with your writinges I remember that one Alphonsus Viruesius Episcopus Canariensis made suche a worke against Philip Melanchton and called the Treaties of it Philippicas as I haue tolde you before Pag. 345. Endeuouring to disgrace as muche as you can godly and perfite obedience you doo contemptuously speake your pleasure Cassianus lib. 4. cap. 27. de Institutis coenobiorum Pag. 51. Zarabella de Sectis alleged by M. Ievv vvhereas he neuer vvrote any suche booke M. Ievvel allegeth Illyricus the heretike vnder the name of zabarella vvhom he meaneth by zarabella Defence Pag. 618. Ioannes Camotensis a Doctor of M. Ievvelles neuer knovveÌ„ Confu so 286. Defence pag. 613. and yet bicause you would not seeme to speake vnto vs without some authoritie you bring in Cassander lib. 4. cap. 27. But certain it is you misse the cuishon and haue mistaken your marke in not discerning betwen Cassianus and Cassander and naming the one for the other whiche faulte might be laide to the Printer but that yee haue taken the mater in hande your selfe In purling in the Canonistes for sayinges that might be wrested against the Pope you tel vs a tale out of Franciscus Zabarella de Sectis 115. Whether you haue seene any authour called Zarabella by which name you alwaies allege him I doo more then doubte It maie be that you meane Zabarella for that is his right name But yet can you not shewe vs any booke that euer he made de Sectis I wis M. Iewel you should haue written Illyricus De Sectis your owne greate frende You doo also allege in three diuers places Videlicet pag. 639. 648. 694. your the same Zabarella de Schemale Concilio I would aske you what is meant there by those wordes de Schemate Should it not be trow you de Schismate About Ioannes Camotensis you plaie and dallie euen as a fishe with the hooke til he be caught faste by the iawe You seeme to please your selfe muche in controlling my ghesse But therein at length you bewraie your owne ignorance and proue your selfe not to be so wise and wel learned as you would be taken in your owne authours alleged Bicause I said what worshipful Doctour you meane by Camotensis I know not You added in the margent If I knew him noâ— I might best blame myne ignorance But how iustely you are to be blamed of ignorance in the selfe same matter your selfe wherein you take your selfe to be so great a doctour let euery vpright Reader iudge After you haue a while skornefully tolde me whom I might haue ghessed this authour to be as Fulbertus Carnotensâ—â— or Ioannes Sarisburiensis otherwise called by some as you saie Rupertus Carnotensis you pronounce at length the definitiue sentence very saddely with these wordes But in deed this writers name is Ioannes Carnotensis alleged by Cornelius Agrippa Cornel. Agrippa As for Agrippas allegation it maketh no force for he is not of so honest same but that exception maie lawfully be taken against his person and therefore he is meeter for your purpose Albeit in this case it maie be that the Printer was in fault and not Agrippa him selfe And how easily Camotensis is made of Carnotensis by change of rnÌ„ into mÌ„ who perceiueth not And so would Agrippa saie were he aliue there is no doubt But you affirme plainely without al doubt that in deede it is Ioannes Camotensis that was a Bishop And there you doo very odiously without al cause make a coÌ„parison betwene him and certaine others only to serue your owne scoffing humour But Sir I praie you for asmuch as you wil haue him in deede to be a Bishop Cornel. Agrippa de vanitate ScieÌ„tiarum cap. â—1 be so good as tel vs whether he be called Camotensis of his countrie or of his Bishoprike Your great substantial Doctor Cornelius Agrippa seemeth to signifie if the Printer haue not deceiued him that he had that name of his Bishoprike calling him Ioannes Camotensis
making great bookes Write fewer wordes more truth Truste not euery pelting booke that seemeth toothsom vnto you yea write nothing but truth and ye shal ease vs of much paynes Now a mannes life wil not serue him to discouer the multitude of your Lies to such impudencie ye are growen What man is there hauing any sparke of shamefastnesse that would referre vs so often and so confidently to a booke by a title which it neuer had ne neuer was any such written And therefore vntil you bring forth your authour hereof you must be content to beare al the blame of a sclaunderous and impudent Lier It had ben an easie matter for you to haue vowed Tritemius de Scriptoribus Ecclesiasticis Conradus Gesnerus Bibliotheca or his Epitome or elles Cusanus workes printed at Basile anno 1565. which was out almost two yeres before your Defence was published where you should haue founde that he neuer wrote booke of any suche title What is to be thought hereof but that either you haue maliciously inuented this Lie of your selfe to deface the authour withal or elles that you haue vnwisely receiued it of some other who is not hable to abide by it If of your selfe then maius peccatum habes if of any other then bring him forth a Goddes name to discharge your selfe of malice albeit not of folie I do ghesse that you wil peraduenture bring forth a greate Stoareman of yours who furnisheth you with suche gaie stuffe and maketh you a greate Truant a felowe meete for the purpose that wil neuer faile suche a false merchant at a neede I take him to be that sures bee of yours Matthias Flacius Illyricus For you declare your selfe that you beside other bookes of his haue benne busie with his Norma Concilij Tridentini And there I finde written In altera parte clauis Scripturae pa. 541. Nicolai Cusani post quam factus est Cardinalis sententia de auctoritate Ecclesiae Concilij supra contra Scriptutam But yet this wil not discharge you of malice For he saith not that he entituled his booke so as you doo affirme but doth pretende to recite Cusanes minde of that matter as this worde Sententia declareth Now one maie gather an other mannes minde concerning any matter out of his writinges though he neuer made any worke of that title Neither doth Illyricus specifie in that place the worke out of the which he hath drawen that whiche he there allegeth and whiche you receiued of him againe at the seconde hande So that I can not perceiue but that the blame bothe of folie and of malice must reste stil vpon your owne persone For I suppose you wil not haue your selfe taken for so ignorant as to thinke Sententia is latine for a booke or if you wil then why doo you so bragge as it were and boast of your great reading and learning Moreouer you haue not onely geuen vs a false title of your owne imagination to Cusanus writinge but also of an Epistle you haue made a Booke That your good intente and plaine dealing herein maye be more euident I wil recite the title of thal Epistle as it is to be founde amonge his workes printed at Basile Anno 1565. Pagin 851. 852. Epistola 7. Nicolai de Cusa Cardinalis ad Clerum Literatos Bohemiae and thereunto in the toppe of the leafe is added De amplectenda vnitate Ecclesiae Let bothe these Titles be conferred and your malicious intent in so wilfully deprauing the authours wordes to bring him out of credite must most manifestly appeare Wel perchaunce you wil saye though the title be altered yet his wordes out of that same Epistle be truely recited wherein consisteth the chiefe effecte and principal purpose If you so saye you wil be proued no lesse a Lier and false reporter herein then you haue benne in the reste And for example hereof I wil bringe euen the very firste place that you haue alleged out of him You tel vs page 55. that thus he saith Sequuntur Scripturae Ecclesiam non è conuerso Cusanus fovvly falsified by M. Ievvel The Scriptures of God followe the Churche but contrariwise the Churche followeth not the Scriptures You haue here clipped the Authours sentence and quite altered the sense His wordes are these Ecclesia igitur sicut recipit Scripturam ita interpretatur Pag. 858 Sequuntur Scriptura Ecclesiam quae prior est propter quam Scripturae non è conuerso The Churche as it receiueth the Scripture so doth it expounde the same The Scriptures therefore do follow the Churche which is the former and for the which the Scripture is ordeiined and not contrariwise What oddes is betwixt this sentence of Cusanus and that whiche you haue fathered vpon him any meane witted man maie ealsily perceiue For Cusanus wordes in their right forme doo bothe stande wel and haue a good meaning But your false changing of them causeth them to importe an intollerable Derogation to the Scriptures without any colour of truth For as it is most true that the Church was before the Scriptures that is to saie the written worde of God and that the Scriptures were ordeined and appointed for the Churche but not contrariwise the Churche for the Scriptures so is it very false that the Scriptures doo followe the Church and the Church not the Scriptures For why hath the Church receiued the Scriptures but to follow them and put them in execution both in our inward beleefe and in our outward actions Doo you not blush M. Iewel thus wilfully to peruerte that with your false iuggling and conueying awaie of those wordes quae prior est propter quam Scripturae whiche before had a right good sense You thought by like you should neuer heare thereof againe nor be called to any reckening or elles you would haue had more regarde ro your good name and honestie You can pretende no tollerable excuse as that you had not Cusanus workes at hande For euen Illyricus vpon whose credite you haue taken vp al that you haue out of this epistle doth not otherwise reporte the same Pag. 544. in 2. parte Clauis Script then they are to be founde in the authour But you thought you would passe him an ase in falsehood although he be his craftes master therein How fowly you haue ouershote your selfe in falsifying sentences and misreporting authour for authour and booke for booke that which hath hitherto ben declared maie be sufficient instruction to any man that is willing and desirous to vnderstande the truthe and not content to be lead into wilful blindnes and errour Howbeit to make the matter a litle more sensible and plainer and also to geue you occasion the better to know your folie and not to exalte your selfe ouermuch with pride vaine glorie and presumption of I can not tel what extraordinarie knowledge as you seeme to doo I wil set before your eyes such a glasse of your grosse
ouersight ignorance and blindnes to looke in as you may and peraduenture wil be ashamed thereof if you be not altogether past shame already Many times either to hide your ignorance or to weary the searcher or to couer your falsehood you bring vs in such general quotations without number of Booke or Chapter as a man shal be litle the nearer For examples whereof Pag. 15. 158. 265. August Pag. 51 August de Ciuitate Dei Pag. 50. 267. Cyprianus Pag. 37. Eusebius Pag. 29. Theodorit in Histor Ecclesiast Pa. 11. Theodorit de curand Graec. affect Pag. 482. 532. Baldus pa. 486. Eckius Pag. 564. Hieronymus 629. Fortalitium fidei Itē 401. 313. Antoninus 498. Liriensis Episcopus 447. Eusebius Emissenus Pag. 13. You referre vs to a Councel of Carthage as you remember you can not tel whiche In al these and such like places a man hath occasion iustly to suspect your couert dealing that either the place maketh nothing for your purpose if it were considered or that there be no such wordes there at al or at the least that you doo not speake of certain knowledge but by some ghesse or vpon an other mannes reporte But where you are so bold as to quote vnto vs the Chapters there it were to be supposed that you shoulde speake ex speciali scientia of your precise knowledge and so muche the more as you ofte inculcate one place And yet for al that it is to be proued that euen in suche places you doo but set a great looke on the matter to outface your readers and gainesaiers withal Example most notable hereof is to be taken of your quotations of one Heruaeus de Potestate Papae a greate and familiar Doctour with you About 37. times and euery where sauing in two places that is to wit Pag. 331. 608. you haue quoted vnto vs precisely the Chapter and yet he hath not diuided his booke into any Chapters at al. Therefore by like you had a good sight that could so often see so many and distincte Chapters where there be none Yea whiche is more that you could recite so many sentences out of him and some of them not without lothsomnesse oftentimes repeated and yet neuer a one of them to be founde in such forme of wordes in al the booke This maie seme a very strange matter vnto them who tooke you to be the chiefe Doctour and the most precious Iewel of al our Ministers of this English Congregation And therefore they wil surmise that I speake this in a dreame of you But that they maie knowe I speake not of reporte but by trial and experience I wil here set out before the Readers eyes the Pages where Heruaeus is quoted in the margent of your booke that if he can come by the booke whiche is in deede of an olde printe he maie by conference proue whether I haue said herein otherwise then truthe Al these here following are not in Heruaeus but in one Iohannes de Parisijs Pagina 119. Cap. 13. 162. 12. 399. 13. 400. 12. 13. 401. 19. 405. 13. 13. 528. 16. 532. 16. 533. 20. 536. 11. 12. 13. it should be 14. Pagina 537. Cap. 19. 538. 19. 544. 12. it should be 13. 607. 14. 615. 18. 651. 18. 652. 8. 653. 18. 660. 18. 692. 17. 694. 13. 696. 18. 15. Now is neuer a one of al these places in Heruaeus but in Ioannes de Parisiis Whom M. Iewel maketh a distinct Authour from the other and yet doth he recite out of the selfe same booke of his diuers sentences and referreth them vnto him as it maie appeare Pagina 53. Cap. 3. 102. 3. 467. 3. 535. 5. 649. 5. 652. 5. A Note of certaine places of the texte of my Confutation leafte out by M. Iewel in his Defence GOod Reader I haue here set before thee a briefe Note or Table of certaine places of purpose and guilefully leafte out by M. Iewel in his recital of the texte of my Confutation printed in the booke of his Defence whiche places in making this Detection I had occasion to expresse By the same thou maist see and as in a fewe haue a taste for to note al it woulde amounte to a iuste volume how he deceiueth thee in the reste bearing the countenance of one that hath answered the substance of the whole Confutation For so much he telleth thee him selfe with these wordes To ansvver M. Hardinge to euery parcel of his Booke being so long it vvould be tedious M. Ievvel in the beginning of his De fence Pag. 2. VVherefore leauing many his impertinent speaches and vnnecessarie and vvaste vvordes I vvil touche onely so muche thereof as shal beare some shevve of substance and maie any vvaie seeme vvorthy to be ansvvered How wel and truely M. Iewel hath kepte this promise and how at the first greeting and entrie of his Booke he begileth thee by these fewe places here noted and in this Detection at large set forth thou shalt see and perceiue For trial therefore of his truthe haue recourse vnto the leaues of this Booke here quoted and looke what places of the Texte of my Confutation there recited be comprehended within two starres as I doo also there in the Margent warne thee assure thy selfe that al those and an infinite number of suche other places are by M. Iewel in this his Defence quite leafte out as if no such thing had ben written And then whether such places by him so leafte out be but impertinent speaches and vnnecessarie and waste wordes or right worthy to be answered I leaue it to thine owne indifferent iudgement to discerne Verely if it maie be lawful thus to deale in the handling of Controuersies it shal not seeme harde to confute the workes of any write◠be they neuer so learned and substancial But nowe to the Note wherein I direct thee to the Leaues and Pages of this my Detection in such order as by occasion such his false sleightes haue bene by me detected The first place fol. 3. b. line 27. vntil fol. 4. a. line 9. The ij fol. 21. b. line 31. vntil fol. 22. a. line 3. The iij. fol. 43. b. line 7. The iiij fol. 45. a line 6. The v. fol. 121. b. line 28. The vj. fol. 129. a. line 16. The vij fol. 129. b. line 8. The viij fol. 193. a. line 22. The ix fol. 193. b. line 4. The x. Ibidem line last The xj fol. 194. a. line 29. The xij fol. eodem b. line 10. The xiij and xiiij fol. 195. a line 7. and line 28. The xv fol. eodem b. line 17. The xvj fol. 196. a. line 11. The xvij fol. eodem b. line 13. The xviij fol. 197. a. line 15. The xix fol. eodem b. line 2. The xx fol. 198. a. line 2. The xxj fol. 230. a. line 24. The xxij fol. 278. b. line 4. The xxiij fol. eodē line 24. The xxiiij fol. 279. a. line 18. The xxv fol. 279. b. line 23. The xxvj fol. 280.
Episcopus But whether he beareth that name of the one or of the other it maketh no great matter If it be so it remaineth that you can tel vs in what parte of the worlde whether in Asia in Aphrica or in Europa or in the new founde landes there be any place of that name I thinke you must be faine to looke ouer al the Geographical tables and bookes you haue and borrowe some of your felowes too and put on your spectales of the best sight and yet for al that I warrant you not finde it except it be in Vtopia Wel M. Iewel that you maie vnderstande that the more occasion you geue me to seeke the more I finde matter of Vntruthe and ignorance to charge you withal I tel you in deede that you haue named Ioannes Camotensis in steede of Ioannes Carnotensis if you haue respecte to his Bishoprike Ioannes Camotensis must be Ioānes Sarisburiensis vvho vvas Bishop of Chartres in France and thereof in Latine called Carnotensis Defence pag. 613. But if you wil haue his Countrie signified then must you cal him Ioannes Salesberiensis or Sarisburiensis choose whether as you haue done Pag. 132. I might saie that this Ioannes Sarisburiensis was a Bishop in al respectes farre better to vse your owne wordes not then Leontius Hippolytus or Clemens as it liketh you to skoffe at those learned and blessed Bishoppes but then Iohn Iewel of Sarisburie if you naming your selfe Iohn of Sarisburie could iustly be accompted any Bishop at al. But betwen a Bishop and no Bishop in this behalfe there can be no comparison This is not the first time that you haue alleged your witnesses by a blinde gheasse hearesaie or reporte not hauing seene their bookes nor knowing what the Authours were You can saie much by rote and prou◠litle by skil as in many other places but here moste euidently it appeareth For if you had knowen that your Ioannes Camotensis is the selfe same Ioannes Sarisburiensis otherwise named Carnotensis for that he was in his time Bishop of Chartres in Fraunce Pag. 132. named Carnotum in Latine whiche you haue alleged before out of his woorke entitled Polycraticon but neuer declaring out of what booke thereof being eight bookes in the whole or what Chapter bicause yee neuer readde the place in the Authour him selfe but receiued it by the waie of almes of frier Bale Flacius Illyricus or some suche other if I saie you had knowen so muche as you might if you had taken the paine to peruse the Polycration your selfe you would neuer haue made so muche a doo about so smal a matter Now for your better instruction and fuller satisfaction maie it please you to vnderstand that he whiche is misnamed in Epitome Bibliothecae Gesneri Ioannes Camotensis is in Partitionibus eiusdem Gesneri tituli 5. fol. 95. rightly called Ioannes Carnotensis And that your Ioannes Camotensis is by you blindly mistaken for Ioannes Carnotensis it euidently appeareth by the sentences alleged by your owne Necromantical Doctor Cornelius Agrippa and by an other of the Spritish sort of your gospel Paulus Scalichius in his railing Libel De Choraea Monachorum Paul Scalichius and by lying Illyricus in Catalogo testium veritatis which are adscribed by Baudy Bale 2. Centur. Scriptorum Britanniae pag. 212. too Ioannes Carnotensis out of his Polycraticon And in deed they are there to be founde albeit not to that purpose that al the packe of your holy brethren haue vntruely alleged them for And therefore neuer a one of you al hath quoted either number of the booke or Chapter where any of those sentences are to be founde lest your falsehed might haue benne espied and that by reading the whole discourse of the places your euil purpose should haue benne nothing furthered but much hindred But if it wil please either you or the Reader to peruse the 16. chapter of the 5. booke and the 24. of the 6. booke of the sayd Polycraticon you for your parte shal haue occasion to vnderstand your errour and folie and the Reader for his parte not to be deceiued with your blinde reporte Pag. 51. Cusanus sovvly and ignorantly belied of M. Iew. You beare your Reader in hand pag. 51. that Nicolaus Cusanus wrote a booke entituled de Auctoritate Ecclesiae Concilij supra contra Scripturam Of the Authoritie of the Churche and Councel aboue and against the Scripture And as though you had seene the booke and wel perused it you referre your Reader thereunto in 14. mo places of this your pretensed Defence as it shal appeare to him A false forged booke odiously attributed by M. Ievv to Cardinal Cusanus in xv Sundri◠places that wil take the paines to turne to these pages here truely quoted 53. 55. 78. 157. 331. 438. 439. 474. 558. 593. 665. 674. 704. 724. Now M. Iewel notwithstanding al these quotations of yours if you be hable to shewe vs any booke of Cusanus so entituled either in print or in autenticke written hande I wil saie that you wil proue your selfe a truer man then euer I tooke you to be But bicause this maie litle moue you I wil more adde on the contrary side if you be not hable to shewe the same after so many allegations out thereof it wil consequently folowe that you are a shamelesse man I might saie a false harlot If a man were disposed to dally with you in a matter most certaine as you vse to doo with others when you thinke you haue gotten any smal shadowe of some counterfeit aduantage for an vndoubted example whereof I referre the readers to the page 414. he might perchaunce dash you quite out of countenance and deface you for euer yea euen before your frendes and the flattering vpholders of your dooinges which would greeue you at the harte Now might one chalenge you and saie M. Iewel if you be hable to shew any booke or halfe booke oration or epistle or any litle pamphlet whereunto Cusanus hath geuen this title then wil the Catholiques graunt you more then euer you were hable to gete yet at their handes If you haue al the bookes in your studie either of your owne or of other menne that you allege then bring the booke with this title forth and you shal discharge your selfe of a most impudent lie and sclaunder And if you be hable so to doo then I praie you let it be proclaimed by you with your booke in your hand at Powles crosse as you haue done at other times to your worship forsooth that al the worlde maie beare witnesse thereof Verely M. Iewel it appeareth that you haue readde more then you vnderstand or at least then you haue liste to vnderstand and yet you allege more then euer you readde in the bookes whereunto you referre vs as it maie wel be proued by this present example and many other the like You maie beshrewe him to whom you gaue so light credite herein Couet not praise by