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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	case_n	year_n	young_a	19	3	5.3849	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A41009	Kātabaptistai kataptüstoi The dippers dipt, or, The anabaptists duck'd and plung'd over head and eares, at a disputation in Southwark : together with a large and full discourse of their 1. Original. 2. Severall sorts. 3. Peculiar errours. 4. High attempts against the state. 5. Capitall punishments, with an application to these times / by Daniel Featley ...	Featley, Daniel, 1582-1645.	1645 (1645)	Wing F586; ESTC R212388	182,961	216

his arms and blessed them to shew that he was the Saviour as well of young as old REPLY First Barber deserveth to be trimmed himself for thus reproaching his mother the church of England who if she be a whore what must he needs be but a bastard who cannot deny himself to be born of her If she and other reformed churches who have excluded the papacie and banished the great whore out of their precincts be no better then whores what true spouse hath Christ in the world or what had he for 1500. yeares during which time all churches through the Christian world baptized infan●s even those who were the forerunners of these Anabaptists and bare also the●r name because they practized rebaptizing as these do yet they condemned not simply the baptisme of infants as I noted before Secondly though it be said that these children came to Christ in a large sense that is had accesse to him yet they came not to him upon their own leggs for S. Luke saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they brought unto him babes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who were no other then such as we tearm sucklings or infants and though it be true that Christ christened them not for he christened none himself but his Disciples only as S. Iohn teacheth us yet his receiving them and blessing them and commending humility to all by their example saying that of such and none but such is the kingdome of God is a sufficient ground and warrant for us to christen them for why should not we receive them into the bosom of the church whom Christ took into his armes Why should we not signe them on whom he layd his hands Why should we not baptize and pray for them whom he blessed If he be the Saviour of young as well as old and to perswade us of this truth expressed such love to infants why should we exclude them from baptisme an outward means of salvation whom Christ as they confesse excludes not from salvation it self See more below in the answer to A. R. ARGUMENT VIII All they who are partakerrs of the grace both signified and exhibited to us in baptisme may and ought to receive the signe and sacrament thereof this is the basis and foundation upon which S. Peter himself builds Acts 10. 47. Can any man forbid water that these should not be baptized which have received the holy Ghost as well as we And it may be further confirmed both by an argument drawn à majore ad minus after this manner if God bestow upon children that which is greater the inward grace why should we denie them the lesser the outward element Or by an argument drawn à relatis they to whom the land is given ought not to be denyed the sight and keeping of the deeds and evidences thereof neither ought we to sever those things which God hath joyned to wit the signs and the things signified they divide the signe from the thing signified who denie them to have grace ordinarily modo non ponant obicem who receive the outward sign and they again sever the thing signified from the sign who allow unto children the grace of remission of sinnes and regeneration and yet denie them the sign and seal thereof to wit baptisme But children receive the grace signified and exhibited in baptisme for the Apostle teacheth us they are not unclean but holy and therefore have both remission of sins and sanctification Ergo children ought to receive the sign and sacrament thereof to wit baptisme ANABAP ANSWER The Apostles ●eaning is that the children of beleevens are not uncleane that is bastards but holy that is born in holy wedlack REPLY First this answer is no way pertinent to the scope of the Apostle which is to perswade the Christian husband not to forsake his unbeleeving wife nor the Christian wife to depart from her unbelieving husband because the unbeliever is sanctified by the beleever where by sanctification the Apostle cannot understand legitimation For faith in the husband doth not legitimate the wife that is make her no bastard if she were so born but sanctifieth her to himself and maketh her a part and member of a holy familie dedicated to God Secondly neither is sanctification here nor in any other place of Scripture taken otherwayes then for separating some way from prophane as persons times and places are said to be sanctified Neither doth holy necessarily implie no bastard For some holy men have been base-born nor doth not bastard implie holy for both the children of damned hereticks yea and infidells too if they be begotten in wed-look are no bastards yet in the state and condition they are in are far from holy See more hereof infra in the answer to A. R. ARGUMENT IX All Apostolicall traditions which are truely such ought to be had in reverent esteem and retained in the church For what the Apostles delivered they received from Christ himself either by word of mouth or the infallible inspiration of his spirit such things are part of that sacrum depositum which Timothie is charged so deeply O Timothie keep that which is committed unto thee and the Thessalonians to keep stand fast and keep 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 word for word the traditions which you have been taught either by word or by our Epistle But the baptisme of children is an Apostolicall tradition truely so called Ergo it ought to be had in high esteem and retained in the church ANABAP ANSWER Though it hath been an ancient custome in many churches to christen children yet it is no Apostolicall tradition but a humane ordinance which had its originall from the Pope the man of sin REPLY First there was christening of children in the church before there was any Pope in the sense they take the word for oecumenicall bishop chalenging unto himself and usurping authoritie over the whole church for not only S. Augustine and Prosper and and Ierome make mention of this custome and good use of it to condemn the Pelagian heresy which denieth original sin but also the councell of Carthage in the dayes of S. Cyprian who flourished in the year 250 determined not only that children might and ought to be baptized but also even before the eighth day upon which some in those dayes stood strickly but erroneously and conformably hereunto we find a canon in the Milevitan councell in which the synod decreed that whosoever shall deny baptisme to children even as soon as they come out of their mothers womb in case the children be weak and in apparent danger of death let him be accursed and before either the synod of Carthage or this Mile●tan Irenaeus in his second book against heresies chap. 39. speaks of infants children young and old saved by their new birth in Christ namely by water and the spirit Joh. 3. 5. Secondly S. Origen and S. Austine affirm in expresse tearmes that the baptisme of children is

the Anabaptists in this section And therefore I come briefly to examine his second assertion or rather aspersion of the whole Christian world in these words in the frontis-peece of his book Against the anti-christian faction of pope Innocentius the third and all his favourites that enacted by a decree that the baptisme of the infants of beleevers should su●ceed circumcision These words vertually contain this proposition that the christening children is the practise of an Anti-christian faction which was brought first into the church by the decree of Pope Innocentius the third Of which enunciation I may say as Tertullian doth of the Chameleon quot colores tot dolores or rather quot dicta tot maledicta so many words as there are so many grosse errors and scandalous reproaches For the baptizing infants is not the practise of a faction nor a part but of the whole not Anti-christian but truely Christian church Neither was it introduced by Innocentius the third but is of far more ancient date and was derived even from the times of the Apostles themselvs First it is well known that the Greek and Latine churches or the Eastern or Western were the membra dividentia of the whole church and that the christening of infants was approved of and practised by the Greek church is evident by the testimonies of Gregorie Nazianzen orat 40. in bap Origen hom 8. upon Leviticus and 14. of Luke and that it was likewise approved and practised in the Latine church is clearly collected from Ambrose lib. de Abrahamo Patriarcha Ieron cont Pelag. l. 3. Augustin l. 10. de Gen. ad lit c. 23. Cyp. ep 59. ad Fidum Now if the Greek and Latine churches were Anti-christian where were there any Christians in the world Secondly Pope Innocentius the third as it is well known to all the learned lived in the twelfth age of the Church and flourished about the year 1215 in which year he called the great Councell at Lateran Before him Gregorie the great whom M. Cornwell himself alledgeth page 11. out of M. Fox in his book of Martyrs about the year of our Lord 599. above six hundred yeares before Innocentius the third resolved Austine the Monk that in case of necessitie infants might be baptized as soon as they were born and two hundred yeares before Gregorie S. Austine wrote a treatise de baptismo parvulorum and for the lawfulnesse thereof in his 28 epistle and in his third book de pec mer. remiss and by occasion elsewhere also alledgeth a testimonie out of S. Cyprian to that purpose who wrote in the year of our Lord 250. nay which is most considerable Origen in his Comment upon the epistle to the Romans c. 6. l. 5. quoted by M. Cornwell himself p. 10. affirmeth in expresse tearms that the church from the Apostles received a tradition to baptize children whence I thus frame my argument All Christians ought to hold the traditions which have been taught them by the Apostles either by word or epistle 2 Thess. 2. 15. But the baptizing of children is a tradition received from the Apostles as Origen affirmeth loc sup cit Austine l. 10. de Gen. ad lit c. 23. de bap cont Donatis l. 4. Ergo the baptizing of children ought to be retained in the Christian church Thus M. Cornwell hath spun a fair thred of which a strong cord may be made to strangle his own assertion Yea but M. Cornwell chargeth all ministers deeply to answer this his negative demonstration saying O that the learned English ministerie would informe me lest my bloud like Abels crie aloud from heaven for vengeance for not satisfying a troubled conscience how shall I admit or consent to the admittance of the infant of a beleever to be made a visible member of a particular congregation of Christs body and baptized before it be able to make confession of its faith and repentance lest I consent to separate what God hath joyned together That which God hath joyned together no man ought to separate But faith and baptisme God hath joyned together Mar. 16. 16. Acts 8. 37 38. 16. 33 34. Gal. 3. 27. Ephes. 4. 5. Ergo faith and baptisme no man ought to separate ANSWER This argument is so far from a demonstration that it is not so much as a topicall syllogism but meerly sophisticall therin any who hath ever saluted the University and hath bin initiated in Logick may observe a double fallacy The first is fallacia homonymiae in the premises The second is ignoratio elenchi in the conclusion First the homonymia or ambiguity is in the tearm joyned together for the meaning may be either that faith and baptism are joyned together in praecepto in Christs precept and that no man denieth all that are commanded to be baptized are required to believe and all that believe to be baptized or joyned together in subjecto that is to say all who are baptized have true faith and that none have true faith but such as are baptized in this sense it is apparantly false and none of the texts alledged prove it for the thiefe on the crosse had faith yet not the baptism we speak of as also the Emperour whom S. Ambrose so highly extolleth in his funerall and many thousands besides again Iulian the Apostata and all other who after they came to years renounced their baptisme and Christian profession had baptisme yet no true faith which as M. Cornwell himself will confesse cannot be lost totally or finally Secondly in the former syllogisme there is ignorantio elenchi he concludes not the point in question they who most stand for the baptizing of children will not have faith and baptisme severed for they baptize children into their fathers faith and take sureties that when they come to yeares of discretion they shall make good the profession of the Christian faith which was made by others at the font in their name and for them nay so farre are they from excluding faith from infants that are baptized that they beleeve that all the children of the faithfull who are comprised in the covenant with their fathers and are ordained to eternall life at the very time of their baptisme receive some hidden grace of the Spirit and the seeds of faith and holinesse which afterwards beare fruit in some sooner in some later Neither is this any paradox or new opinion for S. Ierome advers Lucifer and Austin ep 57. ad Dard. and Zanchius de tribus Elohim affirm that the holy Spirit moveth upon the waters of baptisme and that as the Spirit in Genesis 1. 2. rested upon the waters incubabat aquis that he might cherish and prepare them for the producing of living creatures so the holy Ghost resteth upon the waters of baptisme and sits as is were abroad upon them and blesseth them and thereby doth cherish the regenerate and animate the elect S. Leo speaketh most elegantly and fully to this point in his sermons of the birth of

by divine inspiration as the originals are EXCEPT V. Fifthly they except that there are vain repetitions in the Service-book But this exception is vain not the repetitions for First that is not vain which serves to a holy end and purpose the more to stirre up our affections or imprint such prayers deeper in our memories as the reflecting of the sunne-beams is not in vain which encreaseth the heat thereof and the striking again and again upon the same nail is not in vain because it driveth it in deeper and more fasteneth it Secondly the holy scripture warranteth such repetitions for in the 136. Psalme these words for his mercie endureth for ever are 27. times repeated in the old translation but 26. according to the new and in Psalme 119. the word of God or some synonymon thereunto is repeated 175. Christ himselfe repeated that prayer Father let this cup passe from me three times Thirdly there is no prayer appointed to be often repeated save the Lords prayer which Christ himself twice delivered upon severall occasions and not only the church of England but all churches in their Liturgies have thought fit to rehearse often for it is as the salt which seasoneth all our spirituall sacrifices as the amber which sweeteneth all our dishes as the Elixar which turneth all our leaden conceptions into pure gold In the confession of our sinnes we are defective as also in the profession of our faith and in our prayers for our selvs and others and in our forms of consecration of the sacrament and therefore in all these places of the Service-book the Lords prayer is added to supply the defects thereof EXCEPT VI. Sixthly they except against the shortnesse of our prayers they say they are rather snips of prayers then prayers and that in them there may be some sparks of pietie but no flame of devotion But this exception is neither true nor just First not true for the prayers appoynted by the church to be read at solemn fasts as likewise the prayers for the whole estate of Christs church and the Morning and Evening prayers for private Families and for sundrie other purposes printed after the Psames are of as large a size as any used in any reformed churches Secondly it is not just our prayers are thereby no way disparaged for the shortest of them come nearer to the pattern of perfect prayer drawn by our Saviour then their longest In all the Bible there is no example of any verie long prayer on the contrarie Solomon commandeth us when we petition the Almightie to use few words and Christ himselfe more then once taxeth the vanitie and hypocrisie of such as mete out their devotion by the ell when you pray use not vain repetitions as the heathen do for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking And Mat. 23. 14. Wo be unto you Scribes and Pharisees hypocrites for ye devoure widdows houses and for a pretence make long prayers In direct opposition to such he framed a prayer to himself a verie short one but most pithie and perfect and it is after this fair copie that the learned Scribes who penned our English devotions wrote well knowing that God is not wooed with varietie of of phrases but rather with sighs and groans not with enlarged thoughts but with enflamed affections as Saint Austine teacheth us The hotest spring sends forth their waters by ebullitions oratio brevis penetrat coelum In a long prayer the affection slaketh cooleth and dieth before he that prayeth is speechlesse and the vulgar sort of people are verie little benefited by these prolix and long-winded rather discourses or expostulations or exaggerations then prayers neither can they for so great a space of time hold their attention to the Preacher neither can their memorie carrie away a quarter of what is powred out before them whereas short prayers often repeated in their ears leave an impression behind them and they get them with many most profitable texts of Scripture often rehearsed in the Book of Common-Prayer by heart and if you take away from them these short cuts and shreddings of devotion as they please to nick-name them such as can neither read nor write will have nothing left to mend their wedding garment Howsoever we want not the approbation herein of the ancient churches especially the famous churches of Aegypt who had many prayers but verie short as if they were darts thrown with a suddain quicknesse lest that vigilant and erect attention of the mind which in prayer in most necessarie should be wasted or dulled through the continuance of over-long prayers EXCEPT VII Seventhly they except against the interchangeable varietie of our Service-Book whereas they continue a long prayer themselvs without any interruption the people only sealing all in the end with their Amen But according to the Rubrick and practice of the church in most congregations in reading the Psalmes and other parts of the Service the Minister and people answer one another by course and turns sometimes he darts out●a short ejaculation as sursum corda lift up your hearts they answer him with habemus ad Dominum we lift them up unto the Lord when he singeth one verse in a Psalme they chant out another when he prayeth for them the Lord be with you they require him with a like prayer and with thy spirit And what hurt or incongruitie is in this it is a religious seconding one the other in their devotion and stirring up the intention of the people It is as it were the laying gloing coals one upon another which presently kindle one the other and make the flame the greater And though now this be an eye-sore to some in our common-prayer-Common-Prayer-Book yet the ancients esteemed it no blemish but a beautie in their Liturgies For Saint Ambrose maketh mention of such a custome in Millain Platina in Rome Basil throughout all Greece and Plinie the younger among the first Christians in Trajans time within a hundred years after Christs death These Christians saith he before day sing Hymns alteratìm by turns or catches to one Christ whom they esteem a God And yet we may fetch this practice higher even from a quire of Angells in heaven for so we read Esay the 6. 3. And the Seraphims cryed one to another holy holy holy EXCEPT VIII Their last exception and greatest spleen is at the Letanie one of the choicest pieces in all the Service-Book wherein we offer up the sweetest incense of most fervent prayers and fragrant meditations to God And the Brownists their taking offence at it sheweth them to be of the nature of the Vultures who as Aristotle writeth are killed with the oyl of Roses or rather like swine who as Plinie informeth us cannot live in some parts of Arbia by reason the sweet sent of aromaticall trees there growing in everie wood Against this therefore they thunder out a volley of objections in the Letanie say they