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A41009 Kātabaptistai kataptüstoi The dippers dipt, or, The anabaptists duck'd and plung'd over head and eares, at a disputation in Southwark : together with a large and full discourse of their 1. Original. 2. Severall sorts. 3. Peculiar errours. 4. High attempts against the state. 5. Capitall punishments, with an application to these times / by Daniel Featley ... Featley, Daniel, 1582-1645. 1645 (1645) Wing F586; ESTC R212388 182,961 216

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18. 10. Two men went up into the Temple to pray Acts 3. 1. Peter and Iohn went up together into the Temple at the houre of prayer 1 Thess. 5. 17. Pray without ceasing 1 Tim. 2. 1. Let prayers intercessions and supplications be made for all men 1 Thess. 1. 2. making mention of you in our prayers 2 Tim. 1. 3. remembrance of thee in my prayers EXCEPT II. Secondly they except against the Service-book that either all of it or the greater part is taken out of the Roman Missall and therefore is to be kickt out of the church with that superstitious piece of Romish devotion ANSWER But this exception is first insufficient secondly ignorant For if the prayers in our Service-book are holy and pithie if agreeable to the pattern of all prayer and favour of true pietie and devotion which they cannot denie they doe what skils it out of what book they were culled The Iews borrowed jewels of the Egyptians to adorn the Sanctuarie Solomon sent for timber and other materials for the Temple to Hyram king of Tyre S. Paul transcribed verses out of heāthen Poets Virgil raked gold out of Enuius hic muck Christian Apothecaries gather simples to make sovereigne electuaries out of the gardens of Iews and Mahumetans the Lapidaries take out a precious stone called Bufomtes out of the head of a Toad Christ indeed forbids us to cast pearl before swine but no where to take a pearl out of a ring in a swines snowt if there be found any there Secondly this exception is guiltie of as much ignorance as weaknesse they who make it are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 such as cannot see afarre off of if they could they might have discerned the prayers in our Church-book to be farre more ancient then the Roman Missall The Bishops and learned Doctors who in the dayes of Edward the sixt compiled the Service-book at Windsor had farre more ancient Liturgies in their eye then the Roman Missall or Breviarie they drew not water out of that impure channell but out of a clearer fountain There are the same Epistles and Gospels in our book and theirs but they were not taken out of theirs but out of the Canonicall books of the old and new Testament there are the same Psalmes and Hymnes but they were not taken out of their Psalter but out of Davids and Saint Luke there are many of the same Collects and Orisons but they are not taken out of their Breviarie but out of the Liturgies of Saint Basil Saint Ambrose Saint Chrysostome and other more ancient attributed to the Apostles themselves Lastly if in regard of that little which may seem to be translated out of the Missall into our English Service-book it might be tearmed as Spalatensis when he was present at the Service in Canterburie church called it Breviarium optime reformatum a reformed Breviarie I cannot apprehend how that should be any derogation to it for what saith Solomon take away the drosse from the silver and there shall come forth a vessell for the refiner This was the noble work of the learned Doctors and Martyrs who reformed Religion in England they took away the drosse not only from the Missals but from all other Offices and Service-books then extant all superstitious Rites either heathenish or Iewish all Legendarie fables all invocation of saints prayers for the dead all Dirige's and Trentals and whatsoever was not warrantable by holy scripture and retaining the rest supplyed what was wanting thereunto and hence came forth this Vessell for the refiner this Liturgie of our church more compleat then any now extant in other reformed churches EXCEPT III. Thirdly they except at three Popish absolutious as they tearme them the first in the beginning of the Service after the publique confession the second before the Communion the third in the visitation of the sick But this exception hath in it more strength of passion then reason for none of these absolutions are absolute but conditionall nor in the name or by the authoritie of the Minister but of Christ. The first is nothing but a declaration of Gods mercie who freely pardoneth the penitent and of the Ministers dutie to declare and pronounce this absolution and remission to the people The second is a prayer of the Minister to God to have mercie upon the Communicants to pardon and deliver them from all their sinnes and to confirme and strengthen them in all goodnesse The third is the execution of that Ministeriall power wherewith Christ invested the Apostles and their successours Iohn 20. 23. As my father sent me so I send you whose sinnes ye remit they are remitted whose sinnes ye retaine they are retained Here is our expresse warrant and commission from Christ for what we doe in this kind to revive the spirit of the humble and cheat up the droo●ing conscience rea●lie to languish in a featefull conflict with despaire EXCEPT IV. Fourthly they except against the reading of the Psalmes Epistles and Gospels in a corrupt translation in which there are many grosse errours as Psal 105. 28. And they were not obedient to his word whereas it should be translated and they rebelled not against his word and Luke the first 36. This is the sixth moneth which was called barren for this is the sixth moneth with her who was called barren And Rom. 12. 11. Fervent in Spirit serving the time for serving the Lord. And Galat. 4. 25. Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia and bordereth upon the citie which is now called Ierusalem for and answereth to Ierusalem And Phil. 2. 8. He was found in his apparrell as a man for being found in fashion as a man And Ephes. 3. 15. Which is the father of all that is called father in heaven and earth for of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named But this exception is of little importance and may soon be philipp't away For first if no translation way be read in the church but that which is free from all errour then none at all ought to be read for there is none in which there are not some mistakes more or lesse with this ferula therefore they rap themselves over the thumbs Secondly those sores on which they fasten their nail have their salves they may see them if they please in Hooker Fisher and many others who have cleared those very passages Lastly neither is the Minister nor are the people tyed to that translation in the common-prayer-book but they may if they please in stead thereof read the Psalmes Epistles and Gospels according to the last and best translation neither were they to blame who in the first setting forth of the common-prayer-book appointed the scriptures to be read in that ancient translation for that was the best then extant neither is there any errour at all in it which concerneth faith or manners and other slips must be born withall in translations or else we must read none at all till we have a translation given
this objection may also be retorted if all things which we need to pray for upon any occasion whatsoever be contained in one short set form of prayer much more may they be in many of greater length But all things we need to pray for are comprised in a short set form of prayer to wit our Lords prayer as S. Austine saith in expresse words although saith he we vaire never so much in our prayers and say other words then those which Christ hath sanctified in his holy form of prayer yet if we pray as we ought we say no other thing then that which is set down in the Lords prayer Ergo all things we need to pray for may be comprised in set forms which may be thus easily demonstrated there is no ex tempore prayer which may not be taken by characters and then either read or said by heart and so made a set form of prayer for all men in the like case OBJECT V. Reading a prayer is no more praying then reading a prophesie is prophesying or reading a Sermon is preaching But where a set form of Liturgie is used the minister only readeth certain prayers and collects Ergo he prayeth not nor is his ministerie therein Divine Service ANSWER First bare reading a prayer simplie without any more then lip-labour is not praying but reading a religious prayer with understanding intention and affection is praying and godly devotion For what is prayer but a lifting up of the heart to God with a lively faith and fervant affection out of a quick sense of our wants and calling upon him for such things as are agreeable to his will This whether it be done within book or without book with our own words or borrowed from another it matter not at all Secondly the reason holdeth not from praying to prophesying and preaching for prophesie is an extraordinarie gift of the holy Ghost and preaching a speciall facultie acquired by many years studie now especially since the extraordinarie gifts of the Spirit are ceased but prayer is a common dutie of all Christians and therefore though it will not follow such a man readeth a prophesie Ergo he is a prophet or readeth written or printed Sermons Ergo he is a preacher Yet we may rightly conclude such a one readeth godly prayers constantly after a religious manner therefore he is an humble orator and petitioner to his heavenly Majestie for Christ said to his Apostles when you pray say Our Father c. Saying therefore or rehearsing a set form is praying Thirdly this objection may be thus retorted if reading the law in the synagogue be preaching it in the language of the holy Ghost then reading holy and heavenly prayers of the church is praying but the text saith expressely that reading the law is preaching Act. 15. 21. Moses of old hath in everie Citie them that preach him seeing he is read in the synagogue everie Sabbath day Ergo reading prayers is praying The Anabaptists having thus disgorged their poyson against set forms of prayer in generall the Brownists who ingender with them thus spit their venome against the Liturgie of the Church of England in particular EXCEPT I. First they except against it that it is a meer humane invention and hath no warrant from Gods word ANSWER But this exception is weak and false First weak for if all things in the service of God wherein mans invention skill and art is exercised are to be rejected and abandoned what will become of the partition of the Bible into chapters and verses the translating it into the mother-tongue putting Psalms into meeter and setting tunes to them Catechismes confessions of faith forms of administring sacraments nay conceived as well as read prayers and all commentaries homilies and sermons for all these have something of Art and are the issue of our meditation invention and contemplation We must therefore of necessitie distinguish between the doctrine and the method of a sermon the matter and the form of a prayer the substance and circumstance of Gods worship in the former there is no place for mans art wit or invention in the latter there hath been alwayes and must be Secondly it is false for the booke of Common-prayer consisteth of first confessions of sinnes and of faith secondly lessons out of the old and new Testament thirdly thanksgivings or blessings generall and speciall fourthly Psalmes read and sung fifthly prayers for our selves and for others but for all these we have precept and president in scripture namely for confession of sinnes Psal. 32. 5. I said I will confesse my transgrlssions to the Lord. Prov. 28. 13. He that covereth his sinnes shall not prosper but who so confesseth them and forsaketh them shall have mercie Dan. 9. 20. While I was praying and confessing my sinne and the sinnes of my people Ezra 10. 1. 11. Now when Ezra had prayed and confessed weeping and casting himself down before God 11. Now therefore make confession unto the Lord God of your fathers Math. 3. 6. And were baptized of him in Iordan confessing their sinnes For confession of faith Math. 10. 32. whosoever shall confesse me before men him will I confesse before my father which is in heaven Rom. 10. 10. With the heart man beleeveth unto righteousnesse and with the mouth confession is made to salvation 1 Pet. 3. 15. Be readie alwayes to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you For lessons to be read out of the old and new Testament Deut. 31. 11. Thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing Esay 34. 16. Seek ye out of the book of the Lord and read Luke 4. 16. He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and stood up for to read Acts 13. 15. After the reading of the Law and the Prophets Acts 15. 21. Moses being read in the synagogue every Sabbath day 1 Tim. 4. 13. Give attendance to reading to exhortation to doctrine For thanksgivings Neh. 11. 17. And Mattaniah the sonne of Asaph was the principall to begin the thanksgiving in prayer Psal. 26. 7. That I may publish with the voyce of thanksgiving and tell of all thy woundrous works Psal. 50. 14. Offer unto God thanksgiving Phil. 4. 6. In every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your request be made known unto God Ephes. 5. 20. Give thanks alwayes 1 Thess. 5. 18. In every thing give thanks For Psalmes read and sung Psal. 95. 1. O come let us sing unto the Lord. 1 Chron. 16. 9. Sing Psalmes unto him Ephes. 5. 19. Speaking to your selves in Psalmes and Hymnes and spirituall songs Iam. 5. 13. Is any merry let him sing Psalmes Rev. 15. 3. And they sang the song of Moses the servant of the Lord. For prayers for our selves and others 1 Kings 8. 28 29 30 38. Have respect unto the prayer of thy servant Math. 21. 13. My house shall be called the house of prayer Luke