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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A48863	The harmony between the old and present non-conformists principles in relation to the terms of conformity, with respect both to the clergie, and the people : wherein a short history of the original of the English liturgy, and some reasons why several truly conscientious Christians cannot joyn with the church in it : humbly presented to publick consideration in order to the obtaining some necessary relaxation and indulgence : to which are added some letters that pass'd between the Lord Cecil, and Arch-bishop Whitgift.	Lobb, Stephen, d. 1699.; Whitgift, John, 1530?-1604.; Burghley, William Cecil, Baron, 1520-1598.	1682 (1682)	Wing L2726; ESTC R23045	77,527	105

mysteries unto us There is I confess a distinction between Faith and Manners when we come to sort and sever the things contained in the Word into the kinds of duties imposed but when we consider them in the Rule and Principle of the word it self from which the Conscience is certainly inform'd and bound there is no difference but they are all of faith alike even as the same sap which in the branches distinct unto leaves and blossomes was in the Root but one whence it followes that nothing can be properly Canonical unto manners but the same was first Canonical unto faith for we therefore stand undoubtedly perswaded that thus we ought to do because we first believe that God himself would have us to do so and hath reveal'd it to us as his will By this it seems evident that the distinction between Canon of faith and of manners as us'd by the Bishops is idle and impertinent and that therefore notwithstanding all has been said by Mr. Hutton it remains as an undoubted truth that the Service Book doth consider the Apocripha as Canonical as a part of the Holy Scriptures the pure Word of God which is no more than what may be inferred from their confounding the Apocriphal with the Canonical books as may be seen in their great Bible Authorized to be read where dividing the books of the Old Testament into Legal Historical Sapiential and Prophetical In the Historical they place 19 books amongst which they reckon the third and fourth books of Esdras the books of Tobith and Judith the two books of Maccabees and the rest of the Chapters of Esther making the book of Esther to consist of 16 Chapters and then to be part of that book In the Sapiential they place 5 books whereof they reckon the books of Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus for two calling the book of Wisdom the Wisdom of Solomon In the Prophetical they place 18 books of which they reckon Baruch the Prophet and Susanna Bell and the Dragon making the same all one with Daniel consisting of 14 Chapters What can be more clear than this sayes the Defender of the Reasons c. Where to sayes the same Author if we add the book of Homilies how it divers times calleth these Apocriphal Books Holy Scriptures in the same sense wherein the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament are so called saying in the alledging Tobith and Ecclesiasticus the Holy Ghost speaketh so in the Scriptures thereby giving the same Authority and Title with Zechary Luke 1. and the Author to the Hebrews Ch. 3. 7. give to the Holy Prophets in their writing of places out of the Old Testament Thus 't is evident That according to the Service Book and the Sentiments of some great Bishops the great Bible and Book of Homilies the Apocripha is consider'd as a part of the Holy Scriptures The which truth abides in its strength notwithstanding what is argued from the Book of Articles where 't is sufficiently manifest that the Apocripha are no part of the Holy Scriptures for this doth but discover the contradiction there is between the book of Articles and the Service book c. whereby the Non-Conformists are but supply'd with an unanswerable argument against subscription which I 'll give in the words of the Devonshire Ministers viz. That to subscribe to the Service Book is contrary to our Subscription to the Book of Articles the 6 Article whereof under the name of Holy Scriptures understanding only the Canonical Books of the Old and New Testament there mentioned whereof the Apocrypha Books are none and therefore they conclude they cannot safely subscribe because they shall subscribe to two books one contrary to another This being so clear namely that the Apochripha Books are appointed to be read as a part of the Holy Scriptures and as the Canon and Rule of manners I 'll proceed to shew what has been objected against it Not that I 'll trouble the Reader with all but onely with two or three particulars 1. Hereby their error who account these Books Canonical Scripture is confirm'd This was sayes the Lincoln Abridgment the only reason that moved the third Councill of Carthage to decree that they should be held Canonical because they had received from the Fathers that they were to be read in the Church And Bellarmine makes this one of his best reasons to prove that the authority of these books is Divine and Canonical because they are now and have been of old read by the Church in the publique Assemblies so do the Papists in that Book they have lately Published called the Three Conversions of England And Gregory Martin reasoneth thus Their own Service book saith he appointeth these books of Toby and Ecclesiasticus to be read for Holy Scriptures as the other Do they read in their Churches Apocryphal and Superstitious Books for Holy Scriptures so clear it is that the very Papists are confirm'd in their error by this practise of the Church 2. The reading these books though but as the Canon and Rule manners tends so very much to the corrupting the manners of men in some things that the Dissenters can in no way approve of it In the defence of the Devonshire and Cornish Ministers reasons 't is thus argued If the Apocriphal Books be Canonical as teaching manners then whatsoever point of manners those books do commend unto us either by Precept or allowed Example we not only may but must observe it for Conscience sake as a divine Rule or Canon 'T is true hereby a late Order which was that the wicked Dissenters if poor receive not Almes will be defended for 't is but according to the command in Ecclesiasticus 12. 5. where 't is expresly said Give not to the Vngodly hold back thy bread and give it not unto him least he over-master thee thereby But how agreable this Precept is unto the pure word of God or the light of nature let a common capacity judge but though this practice is enjoyn'd to the defence of that but now mention'd order yet there are other allowed and highly approv'd practises which are most odious in the apprehension of the Dissenter and are really abhor'd by all but bloody Papists For Judiths tricking up her self on purpose to tempt and ensnare the heart of Holofernes to uncleanness her compassing an Irreligious Governour by fraud by lies by oaths and protestations in the name of God to the end she might the more assuredly murder him is not only an allowed but a practice highly approv'd of by the book of Judith that is appointed to be read in October The children of Israel though now return'd from the Babylonian Captivity yet to the very time Holofernes was murdered by Judith they remained under the Government of the Emperour The Emperour though an Idolater yet their Lawfull Governour whose Government they should not have shaked off by frauds by lies equivocations and other sinfull practices which yet Judith did to the gaining the greatest applause and

commendation The which is read in the Church as the Rule of manners whereas in truth 't is meet only for the countenancing the unjustifiable treasons of the Papists to which purpose it has been improv'd by Saunders de schismate who inciting the English Ladies professing the Popish Religion to murder Queen Elizabeth and all her Favourers calling her Holofernes the Heretical Prince did prove from this example of Judith that they might do it without any the least stain or blot to their Religion This is urg'd in the defence of the reason of the Devonshire and Cornish Ministers from whence I would query whether a person fully convinc'd of that if the book of Judith must be read as the Rule of manners this allowed practice of Judith must be in the like case imitated ought not rather to abandon the reading or hearing of these books then presume to enter on the practises of murdering by lies deceits c. I verily believe that the Non-Conformists rather than that they would imitate Judith in these things would rather be expos'd to the worst of miseries whereby they would more effectually demonstrate to the World the Loyalty of their Principles than by their Conformity There are several other things that must be practised if the Apocriphal Books be embrac'd as the Rule of manners unto which the Dissenters cannot conform But designing to be short I will at this time wave the considering them and proceed to shew the sense some of the Old Church of England Protestants had of these books as I find it in the Abridgment 3. The Old Church of the Jewes saith Dr. Whitaker never vouchsafed the Apocriphal Books so much honour as to read 'em publiquely which also the Learned hold to be a good president for us to follow The Council of Hippo sayes Bishop Jewell speaking of the Canonical Scriptures decreed that besides them nothing might be read in the Church The Council held at Laodicea decreed on the Sabbath we may not read any books that be without the Canon but only the Canonical books of the Old and New Testament To the like effect Chrysostom speaks sayes the same Jewell and as Bishop Jewell so Bishop Horn and Bishop Pilkinton asserts the French Church by the constitutions of Lewes and Charles were against the reading of the Apocrypha Whoever will diligently compare what Protestant writers offer against Apocryphal books with the books themselves will find so many idle stories and fables so many errors and ill presidents in it that they cannot but conclude with Dr. Sutcliff That it is impudence in the Papists that they match Apocryphal books and Legends with the Scriptures or at least read them in the Churches together with the Scriptures From the whole hath been said on this particular I inferr that 't is but charity to conclude that some Dissenters may receive such strong convictions concerning the unlawfulness of conforming to this part of the Liturgy that their Non-conformity may be more justly esteemed the product of Conscience than the Off-spring of obstinacy and an unreasonable Humour Argument II. II. Some Dissenters cannot Conscientiously approve of the Translation of the Psalmes which is read at the ordinary Lord's dayes service because 't is not only imperfect but moreover in some places senseless and absurd and in other places false directly contradicting our last Translation of the Psalmes in the Bible The Translation now us'd is the same set forth in the times of ignorance when the light of the truth did but begin to dawn in Henry the 8th dayes and is 1. Imperfect because among many other omissions all the Titles though a part of the original and very usefull are left out 2. Sensless and absurd for Psal 58. 9. where our Translation has it thus viz. before your pots can feel the Thorns he shall take them away with a Whirl-wind both living and in his wrath In the Service Book Translation 't is or ever your pots be made hot with Thorns so let indignation vex them as a thing that is raw So Psal 72. 6. He shall come down like rain upon the mowen grass This in the common prayer is Translated thus he shall come down like the rain into a fleece of Wool This our Old Protestant divines look'd upon as a corruption in the Papists not to be approved but can it be less so when done by the sons of the Church of England Fulk Withers Bulkley Whitaker and others have blamed the Rhemists Translation because 't is in many places senseless and absurd for which reason seeing the Translation of the Psalmes in the Service Book is as senseless in some things as that of the Rhemists is in other 't is as much to be blamed and as little to be approv'd But this is not all for this Translation in Henry the 8th is not only imperfect absurd and senseless but moreover in some places contrary to the original not only in the opinion of Dissenters but also in the judgment of those who were the Authours of the best Translation that ever was in English 1. The Psalter has it in Psal 17. 4. Thus because of mens works that are done against the words of thy lips I have kept me from the wayes of the destroyer but more agreeably to the Original our Translation is thus concerning the works of men by the words of thy lips I have kept me from the paths of the destroyer whereby 't is apparent that not mens works that are done against the words of God's lips kept David right but concerning mens works David was kept from the paths of the destroyer by the words of God's lips 2. In Psal 18. 26. The Psalter sayes that with the froward thou shalt learn frowardness but according to the Hebrew 't is as our last translation in the Bible has it with the froward thou shalt shew thy self froward 3. In the Psalter Psal 68. 6. 't is thus he is the God that maketh men to be of one mind in an house whereas according to the Hebrew 't is God setteth the solitary in Families 4. In the Psalter Psal 107. 40. Though he suffer them to be evil intreated through Tyrants but according to the Hebrew in our Bibles He poureth contempt upon Princes But 5. In Psal 105. 28. The Psalter sayes And they were not obedient unto his word but the Hebrew And they rebelled not against his word or were not disobedient to his word And in Psal 106. 30. The Psalter has it Then stood up Phineas and Prayed and so the Plague ceased But our Bibles then stood up Phinehas and executed judgment and the Plague ceased which is not only most agreeable to the Hebrew in this place but moreover to the History in number 25. 7 8. Such as conform to the ordinary Lord's dayes Service must not only shew their approbation to the many idle Stories in the Apocryphal books and give 'em that countenance that alone pertains to the pure word of God but besides must lay

aside the Translation that is most exactly agreeable to the Original and use one that is not only imperfect absurd and senseless but in some things so contrary to the Original But some Dissenters think that their Conformity in this respect cannot but prove pernicious to the Christian Religion as it casts a reproach not only on the last and best translation but even on the Original it self They know how jealous God is about his word unto which no additions diminutions or alterations can be made but to the provoking the most high and the wounding their Consciences and therefore are afraid to conform Argument III. III. The third Argument doth more immediately concern the very Service it self unto which the Dissenters refuse to Conform because of that similitude likeness and agreement there is between it and the formes of Prayer which the Papists use That the Reader may be the more fully acquainted with the true State of this controversie about the agreeableness there is between the English and Roman Service Books and what 't is the Dissenters aim at by their insisting so very much on it I must shew 1. What they say concerning the agreableness that is supposed to be between these Service Books 2. How this came to pass What occasion'd our adhering so closely to the Popish Service Book even when we forsook their Communion 3. The Reasonings of some Dissenters from that agreeableness is suppos'd to be between these two books against the English Service First What they say concerning the agreableness that is suppos'd to be between these two Service books The Dissenters do out of King Edward's Letter unto the Devonshire and Cornish Rebels give this following account of it namely As for the Service in the English Tongue thus manifest reasons for it and yet perchance it seemeth to you a new Service and indeed is none other but the old the self same words in English which were in Latine The difference is that you our Subjects should understand in English that which before was spoke in Latine If the Service of the Church was good in Latine it remaineth good in English for nothing is alter'd but to speak with knowledge that which was spoke with ignorance Furthermore these Dissenters add as I find in their Anatomy of the Service Book That every piece and parcel of the Liturgy word for word is out of these Popish peices namely the Breviary out of which the Common Prayers are taken the Ritual or book of Rites out of which the Administration of the Sacraments Burial Matrimony visitation of the sick are taken The Mass-book out of which the consecration of the Lord's Supper Collects Epistles and Gospels are taken As for the book of ordination of Arch-bishops Bishops and Ministers that is out of the Roman Pontifical These things being so whoever pleads for the English Service book doth so far defend the Romish Mass-book not that 't is a defence of the whole Romish Service for in the Anatomy of the Service Book 't is acknowledged that every thing in the Mass-book is not in our Liturgy though all that is in our Liturgy is word for word in the Mass-book But so far as our Liturgy is defended so far that part of the Romish Service is defended for which reason the greatest Champions who among our Church men have most zealously written in defence of the Liturgy and have been consider'd by the Church of Rome as men who have done great Service to the Roman Religion Thus Whitgift and Hooker have had their applauses from the Romanists 'T is not unworthy observation to find Arch-Bishop Whitgift reproaching Cartwright and the Dissenters as a people eminently serviceable to the Papist and Dean Stilling fleet to give the utmost countenance he could thereunto whereas the truth is that that on which Whitgift grounds his censure will not bear it and though none of Dean Stilling fleet 's adversaries have taken any notice of it that I can find yet Whitgift himself is the man who has had from the Jesuites great thankes for what he has written against Dissenters in defence of the English Service and Discipline That Whitgifts Censure concerning the Dissentes subserviency to Popish designes is groundless being rather the product of his indiscreet passions than of sound arguings is evident in that the great reason given to shew that the Dissenters are the Papists promoters is because they assert that the Papists ought not to be compel'd to receive the Supper of the Lord so long as they continue in their Popery that is they ought not to act contrary to their Conscience nor dissemble with Almighty God by professing themselves to be Protestants even when they are really and in heart Papists whether this be to gratifie the Papist let the impartial Reader judge But that Whitgift has gratify'd the Papist in his writings against Dissenters I 'll evince by producing what the learned Parker in his Ecclesiastical policy lib. 1. chap. 33. insists on in answer to this objection of Whitgift Bancroft and others where he shews how William Reignolds the Jesuit asserts that John Whitgift in his discourse against Cartwright has defended the Catholick Cause and accordingly the said Reignolds in the preface against Whitaker makes great use of Whitgift and in the book it self he sends Mr. Whitaker unto Dr. Whitgift for a supply of reasons for the confirming their notion about putting of our caps and making curtesie at the hearing the Name of Jesus Scultinyns and Stapleton give the same Character both of the writings of Whitgift and Bancroft against the Puritanes even as Gretzer the Jesuit triumphs in Saravias and Sutcliff's defence of the Episcopal Authority in Civils And as Whitgift even so Hooker for the service done the Church of Rome by what they have writ in defence of the worship and discipline of the Church of England hath had the praises of the Romanists This Mr. Walton in the life of Hooker has observ'd which is no more than what Dr. King Bishop of Chichester was acquainted with as he himself expresses in a letter to honest Isaac I am glad you mention sayes the Bishop how much value Robert Stapleton Pope Clement the 8th and other eminent men of the Romish perswasion have put upon this book having been told the same in my youth by persons of worth that have travelled Italy And what doth this discover less than that such is the agreement between the Service and Discipline of the Church of England and that of Rome that whoever pleads for the one defends the other Furthermore in the Anatomy of the Service Book we are furnished with an Historical Account of the Papists approving our Liturgy There be sayes the Author thereof abundance of instances for the Papists approving our Liturgy witness Mortons Appeal Pope Pius the 4th and Gregory the 13th offered to Queen Elizabeth to confirm the English Liturgy Witness Dr. Abbot then Prelate of Canterbury and Mr. Cambden in the life of Queen Elizabeth who

only form of prayer to be us'd in publique II. But to be more particular there are many among the Dissenters who are furnish'd with such Arguments as the Reader may find in the Abridgment of that book which the Ministers of Lincoln Diocess deliver'd to the King Anno 1605. as also in a part of the Register and among the reasons for Refusal of Subscription exhibited to Cotton Bishop of Exeter by the Devonshire and Cornish Ministry and in several other discourses as in Bayly's Parallel of the Liturgy with the Mass-book Ames his fresh suit against Ceremonies c. The which have fix'd such strong convictions on the Consciences of some Dissenters concerning the unlawfulness of the present Liturgy that they cannot safely joyn with any in the use of it Though some who have not receiv'd such powerfull impressions from the weight of those Arguments can read the Common Prayer and joyn with such as do to the end they may save themselves from the severity of Penal Lawes yet other Dissenters will rather submit themselves to the greatest extremities than venture to dishonour God by doing what they are convinc'd is a sin That the Reader may be mov'd to entertain some charitable thoughts concerning such persons and that the common objection that is laid in against their Non-Conformity which is Humour and Fancy and a Peevish Obstinacy may be fully answered I 'll give an Historical Account of some of those Arguments which do so fully convince some Dissenters that they cannot without laying an unnatural violence on their Families conform Argument I. I. They are perswaded that according to the Rubrick the same honour is put on the Apocryphal Books which is due alone to the Sacred Scriptures For they are appointed to be read as a part of the Old Testament without any note of difference from the Canonical In a discourse before the Common Prayer concerning the Service of the Church 't is asserted that nothing is ordained to be read but the very Pure word of God the Holy Scriptures or that which is agreable to the same beside this after the order how the Psalter is to be read 't is said in the Title how the rest of Holy Scripture is to be read under which Title several orders are to be found Namely 1. The Old Testament is appointed for the first Lessons at Morning and Evening Prayer so as the most part thereof will be read every year once and in the 3d. order 't is said that to know what Lessons shall be read every day look for the day of the Month in the Kalendar following and there ye shall find the Chapters that shall be read for the Lessons both at Morning and Evening Prayer and in the Rubrick after the Psalms are read 't is order'd that then shall be read distinctly with an audible voice the First Lesson taken out of the Old Testament as it is appointed in the Kalendar whereby 't is evident that what is appointed in the Kalendar to be read for the First Lesson is consider'd as a part of the Old Testament the Holy Scripture the pure word of God But the Apocryphal books are in the Kalendar appointed to be read for First Lesson for almost Two Months together even from the latter end of September untill November 24th beside the Holy dayes on which these books are appointed to be read To which add that this is done to the constant neglect of reading a great part of the Sacred Scriptures namely the two books of Chronicles Solomons Song and a great part of the Revelations That 't is the appointment of the Church to read the Apocryphal books as a part of the Holy Scriptures is farther confirm'd by Archbishop Bancroft in the conference held at Hampton Court where as the abridgment has it he tax'd Jerom for calling these books Apocrypha and said he was the first that gave them that name and called his objections against them the old Cavills of the Jews And the Bishops of Winchester affirm'd at the same time that they must needs be held Canonici ad informandos mores Canonical for the information of manners To these I 'll add what Mr. Hutton in his answer unto the reasons of the Ministers of Devon and Cornwall to this very objection They are saith he called Holy Scriptures in a signification at large because the subject they entreat of is God his Love Power our Sanctification and Obedience to him And they may be held Canonical wholsom Doctrines being thence deduced though not simply of themselves yet wherein they agree with the Canon as also because they may serve as they alwayes heretofore have done for a rule to direct and order our Conversation aright In this answer though he seems without the approbation of the Rubrick to make a difference between the Sacred Scriptures and the Apocrypha books yet at length falls in with the Bishop of Winchester asserting that they are a Canon or Rule to direct our Conversation aright But in opposition hereunto 't is generally by sound Protestants asserted 1. That the Apocryphal books are not a part of the Holy Scriptures the pure word of God 2. That there are several things appointed to be read which are not agreable to the word of God nor can be defended by any sound Protestant To make this point the more clear I 'll give the Reader an account of what is reply'd to the distinction of the Bishop of Winchester about the Canon of Faith and Manners and then offer what arguments have been urg'd against this practice of the Church In the second part of the defence of the reasons of the Devonshire and Cornish Ministers 't is thus reply'd to the aforesaid distinction But that we may farther see how heartless and unsound this distinction of Canonical for manners but not for Faith is let us observe how they here make a distinction of faith and manners where none is for all Doctrines of God's word are in this respect Doctrines of faith whether they concern matters of believing or of other Conversation of life wherefore the Apostle hath coupled them together in that place to Timothy saying all Scripture given by inspiration of God c. shewing us thereby that upon one and the same divine Revelation our knowledge and practice both must be grounded And I would entreat these men that give us this distinction to tell us whether it be not a point of faith That we must worship one God and him after his own manner reverencing his Name and keeping his Sabbaths c. And whether it be not a point of faith That we must honour our Parents and Superiors that we must not Kill commit Adultery Steal Slander Covet And whether our Consciences be not bound in these things by the Divine Testimony as well as in any point of our understanding surely unless our Divinity faileth all the word of God is the object of Faith that as well which directeth to manners as that which revealeth

such fondness of his own Composures But left it to Austine the Monk whom he sent over into England when he consulted him in it either to use the Roman or the French Rituals or any other as he should find they were most likely to edifie the people But After this there were great variations for as any Prelate came to be Canonized or held in high esteem by the people some private Collects or particular Forms that he had used were practised in his or perhaps as his Fame spread in the Neighbouring Diocess Thus the Liturgie as it's first rise was in Austine's time or thereabout which was occasioned by the Errors that then did infest the Churches at which time the Ministers would vent their Errors in their very Prayers even so by degrees it received remarkable Additions some part brought in at one time and some at another So says Dr. Burnet In every Age there were notable Additions made and all Writers allmost in the Eighth and Ninth Centuries employed their Fancies to find out Mystical Significations for every Rite that was then used and so as a new Rite was added it was no hard matter to add some Mystery to it This had made the Office swell out of measure and there was a great variety of them Missals Breviaries Rituals Pontificals Portoises Pies Graduals Antiphorals Psalteries Hours and a great many more Out of these was the English Service taken which as it had no higher Rise than that of Gregorie's or at most Ambrose's Liturgy in like manner it was a Composition of time the Remaining parts having different Fathers some hundred years younger than the Apostles This I 'le evince particularly out of Bellarmine who as his Interest prompted him made diligent search after the Antiquity of the several parts of the Romish Service Book 1. The Versicle Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Ghost was as Alcuinus thought Composed by St. Hierome at the request of Pope Damasus But as Walfrid Strabo 't was composed by the Nycene Council sometime before Hierome it may be to shew their Detestation to the Arrian Heresie which was some hundred years after Christ 2. The Kyrie Eleison i. e. Lord have mercy on us is foolishly supposed to be us'd ever since the Apostles days because 't is found in St. James's feigned Liturgy but Bellarmine cannot say that 't was us'd in the Roman Liturgy Two Hundred years before Gregory the Great who liv'd about the year 600. 3. Dominus Vobiscum or the Lord be with you An ancient Salutation us'd by Believers in the Old Testament times about which Petrus Damianus wrote a Book with this Title Dominus vobiscum Tho' this was an ancient Salutation in use among old Believers when they met one another yet we have no evidence that 't was brought into the Liturgie as a part of solemn and set Worship until the first Council at Bracca Can. 21. enjoyn'd it the Bishops and Priests 4. The Collects which were the short Prayers of several Popes and others Cannoniz'd for Saints were brought into the Liturgy by Pope Gregory almost 600 years after Christ 5. The Te Deum Laudamus or that Hymn which begins thus We praise thee O God tho' it be not found in the Sacred Scriptures yet 't was saith Bellarmine given the Church by Inspiration at the Baptism of St. Austine at which time St. Ambrose and St. Austine did extempore and alternately to the Astonishment of the people sing this Hymne as Dacius Episcopus Mediolanensis reports 6. After the Lessons the Responses which are so call'd saies Rabanus because one who begins is answer'd by the rest were first invented by the Italian Churches was not within several hundred years after Christ By these Intimations concerning the Antiquity of some parts of the English Service 't is evident That as all stinted Liturgies compared with the most primitive practices are new so our Liturgie which was taken out of Gregories A Liturgie not so ancient as that of Ambrose and which in process of time was strangely alter'd is much more new unto which the Dissenters cannot firmly adhere if they will as they think they ought make the most Primitive Practice the pattern and Rule of theirs What need any other Impositions on the Ministers of the Gospel or on the people now than were on 'em the first 300 years And why shall we be wiser than our first Fore-Fathers Is it not a duty to have a just respect to Antiquity Why not then to that Antiquity that comes nearest unto the Apostles days Whatever some may think there are many among the Dissenters who are fully perswaded that untill all things in Religion be reduc'd to the ancient Constitution established by the Lord Christ and his Apostles adher'd unto by those who for some hundred years followed 'em the Church of God will never flourish This is the Rule they must walk by c. or Sin against God to avoid which Sin they refuse to joyn with the Church of England in her Liturgie that is so beside the practice of the Primitive Christians Let these few of the many Arguments which the Dissenters have offered against the lawfulness of the English Liturgy satisfie the Reader On this I have the more fully insisted to the end those Sober Conformists who it may be have not considered the Reasons why the Dissenters cannot conform to the English Liturgie may see thas 't is not Honnour nor Fancy but Conscience that is the ground of their Non-Conformity I 'm very Confident that a great part of the Dissenters I speak not of all because I know 'em not would with all their Hearts Conform to all is requir'd of 'em by the Church of England could they do it with a safe Conscience and surely such among the Conformists who will consider these Reasonings of the Dissenters and who do not measure the Consciences of other Men by the Light and Latitude of their own cannot but conclude that there are some Nonconformists who cannot with a safe conscience conform but should they do it 't would be against the plain convictions of consciences As 't is not humour nor fancy that occasions their Dissent from the Church so 't is more than meer scruple of conscience These Dissenters are under strong convictions of Conscience that they sin if they conform This is certainly the case of many who are as fully perswaded that the Conformists do err as the Conformist can be that they do so This being their case the question is whether notwithstanding these plain convictions of Conscience they must conform and act contrary to their convictions Whether they may safely sin against God to the end they may render the Obedience required by man It hath been heretofore asserted by all sorts of Christians whether Protestant or Papist 1. That God must be obeyed rather than man And 2. That no authority is sufficient to oblige any to act contrary to the plain convictions of Conscience Yea