and_o you_o shall_v perceive_v that_o it_o be_v but_o for_o lack_n of_o the_o second_o which_o be_v mitescere_fw-la pielate_fw-la to_o be_v meek_a by_o piety_n that_o you_o so_o presumptuous_o make_v objection_n 386.208_o pur._n 386.208_o call_v they_o in_o your_o pride_n unavoidable_a reason_n against_o those_o book_n which_o by_o your_o own_o confession_n the_o whole_a true_a church_n have_v canonize_v and_o what_o be_v these_o unavoidable_a reason_n first_o because_o the_o author_n of_o the_o second_o book_n commend_v one_o razis_n for_o kill_v himself_o 61_o 2._o mac._n 7._o au._n 2._o gau._n 23._o &_o ep_v 61_o which_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n s._n augustine_n answer_v the_o donatist_n &_o you_o at_o once_o say_v touch_v this_o his_o death_n the_o scripture_n have_v tell_v it_o how_o it_o be_v do_v it_o have_v not_o commend_v it_o as_o though_o it_o be_v to_o be_v do_v second_o you_o say_v he_o abridge_v the_o five_o book_n of_o jason_n but_o the_o holy_a ghost_n make_v no_o abridgemente_n of_o other_o man_n write_n the_o book_n of_o the_o king_n in_o how_o many_o place_n it_o singnifi_v that_o it_o abridge_v story_n tell_v where_o they_o be_v write_v more_o at_o large_a in_o other_o book_n that_o be_v not_o canonical_a and_o be_v not_o s._n mark_v common_o call_v breviator_n the_o abridger_n of_o s._n matthew_n also_o every_o sermon_n and_o letter_n in_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n 2.3_o aug._n de_fw-fr consen_v euang._n li._n 1._o ca._n 2.3_o be_v it_o not_o a_o abridgement_n the_o holy_a ghost_n know_v to_o pour_v again_o through_o his_o new_a vessel_n both_o piece_n of_o other_o man_n write_n as_o you_o see_v act_n 17._o tit._n 1._o and_o also_o book_n &_o much_o more_o of_o jason_n the_o hebrew_n as_o also_o of_o ethnic_a poetes_n three_o he_o confess_v that_o he_o take_v this_o matter_n in_o hand_n that_o man_n may_v have_v pleasure_n in_o it_o which_o can_v not_o away_o with_o the_o tedious_a long_a story_n of_o jason_n but_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n serve_v not_o such_o vain_a delight_n of_o man_n be_v it_o vain_a delight_n to_o desire_v profitable_a brevity_n in_o your_o preface_n to_o the_o reader_n you_o say_v i_o have_v use_v great_a brevity_n by_o a_o natural_a inclination_n whereby_o i_o love_v to_o be_v short_a in_o any_o thing_n that_o i_o write_v do_v you_o count_n your_o inclination_n a_o vain_a inclination_n and_o who_o see_v not_o that_o in_o all_o the_o book_n of_o holy_a scripture_n there_o be_v great_a observation_n of_o brevity_n &_o that_o among_o other_o cause_n also_o to_o avoid_v tediousness_n four_o he_o show_v what_o labour_n and_o sweat_v it_o be_v to_o he_o to_o make_v this_o abridgement_n ambitious_o commend_v his_o travill_n and_o show_v the_o difference_n between_o a_o story_n at_o large_a &_o a_o abridgement_n all_o which_o thing_n savour_v nothing_o of_o god_n spirit_n and_o special_o that_o in_o the_o end_n for_o all_o this_o you_o carp_n in_o the_o preface_n 2._o mac._n 2._o he_o confess_v his_o infirmity_n &_o desire_v pardon_n if_o he_o have_v speak_v slender_o and_o bare_o whereby_o he_o testify_v sufficient_o that_o he_o be_v no_o scribe_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n that_o he_o ambitious_o commend_v his_o travel_n be_v but_o your_o blasphemy_n without_o any_o occasion_n give_v by_o he_o all_o the_o rest_n stand_v well_o enough_o with_o the_o assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n unless_o you_o think_v that_o the_o scribe_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n may_v not_o speak_v of_o themselves_o as_o of_o man_n humano_fw-la more_fw-it or_o the_o they_o must_v always_o be_v eloquent_a &_o always_o able_a to_o do_v all_o without_o sweat_n &_o without_o labour_n do_v not_o s._n paul_n asmuch_o confess_v his_o like_a infirmity_n when_o he_o say_v 2._o cor._n 11._o etsi_fw-la imperitus_fw-la sermone_fw-la though_o i_o be_v rude_a in_o speak_v yea_o do_v he_o not_o excuse_v his_o boldness_n for_o write_v to_o the_o roman_n who_o be_v so_o full_a of_o all_o knowledge_n and_o say_v that_o he_o do_v it_o not_o but_o only_o to_o put_v they_o in_o remembrance_n of_o that_o which_o they_o know_v well_o enough_o before_o rom_n 15._o do_v he_o not_o also_o in_o that_o epistle_n for_o his_o ease_n use_v tertius_fw-la his_o hand_n rom._n 16._o and_o the_o like_a common_o in_o write_v all_o his_o other_o epistle_n also_o as_o appear_v 2._o thes_n 3_o that_o i_o speak_v nothing_o of_o his_o intolerable_a pain_n take_v in_o preachinge_a wherein_o also_o he_o be_v the_o instrument_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o not_o only_o in_o his_o epistle_n these_o be_v forsooth_o your_o unavoideable_a reason_n now_o to_o s._n hierome_n 214._o hieromes_n testimony_n pu._n 214._o m._n allen_n aleage_v the_o authority_n of_o hieronym_n in_o prol_n mach._n but_o what_o he_o mean_v thereby_o or_o what_o place_n he_o note_v i_o know_v not_o quoth_v you_o who_o will_v believe_v that_o you_o be_v so_o dull_a in_o the_o vulgar_a latin_a bibles_n be_v a_o preface_n upon_o the_o book_n of_o machabée_n in_o it_o be_v these_o word_n the_o book_n of_o maccabee_n although_o in_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o hebrew_n they_o be_v not_o have_v yet_o of_o the_o church_n they_o be_v note_v among_o the_o story_n of_o the_o divine_a scripture_n those_o usual_a preface_n be_v take_v common_o of_o s._n hierom_n sometime_o for_o word_n sometime_o for_o sense_n and_o so_o be_v this_o as_o will_v appear_v by_o the_o two_o place_n that_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o he_o in_o his_o preface_n upon_o the_o book_n of_o king_n you_o say_v he_o do_v not_o only_o omit_v it_o in_o rehearsal_n of_o the_o canonical_a book_n but_o also_o account_v it_o plain_o among_o the_o apocryphal_a he_o there_o reporteh_o how_o many_o letter_n be_v apud_fw-la hebraeos_fw-la with_o the_o hebrew_n to_o wit_n two_o and_o twenty_o and_o that_o according_o number_n for_o number_n primus_fw-la apud_fw-la eos_fw-la libre_fw-la the_o first_o book_n with_o they_o be_v genesis_n and_o so_o forth_o to_o two_o &_o twenty_o so_o expressy_a he_o show_v that_o he_o rekon_v the_o book_n there_o after_o the_o hebrew_n and_o therefore_o that_o he_o speak_v of_o their_o canon_n when_o he_o say_v afterward_o that_o all_o without_o these_o be_v to_o be_v put_v among_o the_o apocryphal_a therefore_o sapientia_fw-la which_o be_v common_o entitle_v salomon_n and_o jesus_n book_n the_o son_n of_o sirach_n and_o judith_n &_o tobias_n and_o pastor_n for_o that_o book_n also_o he_o mention_v among_o the_o book_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n of_o which_o only_o and_o not_o of_o any_o of_o the_o new_a testament_n he_o there_o speak_v non_fw-la sunt_fw-la in_o canone_o be_v not_o in_o the_o canon_n the_o first_o book_n of_o the_o macchabee_n i_o find_v in_o hebrew_n the_o second_o be_v a_o greek_a now_o what_o make_v this_o for_o you_o or_o against_o we_o do_v any_o of_o we_o affirm_v that_o these_o book_n be_v in_o the_o hebrew_n canon_n 215._o pur._n 215._o but_o you_o have_v another_o place_n out_o of_o s._n hierome_n to_o prove_v that_o they_o be_v neither_o in_o the_o church_n canon_n in_o his_o preface_n upon_o the_o book_n of_o proverbe_n therefore_o even_o as_o the_o church_n read_v in_o deed_n the_o book_n of_o judith_n tobias_n and_o maccabee_n but_o yet_o receive_v they_o not_o among_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n so_o also_o these_o two_o book_n ecclesiasticus_fw-la and_o sapientia_fw-la let_v she_o read_v as_o she_o do_v for_o the_o people_n edification_n but_o not_o to_o confirm_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n doctrine_n to_o wit_n against_o the_o jew_n that_o be_v the_o answer_n because_o their_o canon_n have_v not_o these_o book_n in_o it_o but_o among_o the_o church_n people_n they_o be_v also_o then_o read_v public_o and_o solemn_o in_o their_o course_n as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o book_n of_o scripture_n as_o s._n augustine_n also_o witness_v of_o one_o of_o they_o by_o occasion_n say_v 14._o august_n de_fw-fr praed_n san._n cap._n 14._o the_o book_n of_o sapientia_fw-la have_v be_v think_v worthy_a to_o be_v recite_v at_o the_o desk_n in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n tam_fw-la long_fw-mi annositate_fw-la so_o long_o a_o rue_n of_o year_n and_o with_o worship_n belong_v to_o a_o book_n of_o divine_a authority_n to_o be_v hearken_v unto_o of_o all_o christian_a man_n from_o bishop_n even_o to_o the_o low_a sort_n of_o layman_n faithful_a penitentes_fw-la and_o catechumenes_n this_o be_v that_o read_n of_o it_o to_o the_o people_n edification_n and_o even_o so_o s._n hierome_n expound_v himself_o in_o his_o preface_n upon_o the_o book_n of_o judith_n say_v with_o the_o hebrews_n the_o book_n of_o judith_n be_v read_v among_o the_o hagiographal_a not_o among_o the_o regum_fw-la the_o hieron_n prol_n galeato_fw-la in_o li._n regum_fw-la nine_o hagiographal_a
that_o be_v canonical_a but_o among_o other_o be_v apocryphal_a cvius_fw-la authoritas_fw-la etc._n etc._n the_o authority_n of_o which_o book_n be_v think_v less_o fit_a to_o confirm_v those_o thing_n that_o come_v into_o contention_n between_o the_o hebrew_n no_o doubt_v and_o us._n but_o notwithstanding_o the_o hebrews_n count_v it_o apocryphal_a the_o nicene_n council_n as_o we_o read_v have_v reckon_v this_o book_n in_o the_o number_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n as_o also_o s._n augustine_n distinguish_v say_v 36_o aug._n de_fw-fr ci._n dei_fw-la li._n 18._o ca_fw-mi 36_o the_o supputation_n of_o the_o time_n after_o esdras_n to_o aristobulus_n be_v not_o find_v in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n which_o be_v call_v canonical_a but_o in_o other_o among_o which_o other_o be_v also_o the_o book_n of_o the_o maccabee_n which_o though_o the_o jew_n do_v not_o yet_o the_o church_n count_v for_o canonical_a by_o all_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o s._n hierome_n mean_v not_o as_o the_o protestant_n do_v when_o he_o say_v that_o the_o church_n receive_v not_o the_o book_n of_o judith_n tobias_n and_o the_o maccabee_n among_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n for_o himself_o say_v that_o the_o book_n of_o judith_n be_v canonical_a by_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a but_o only_a as_o i_o have_v say_v he_o instruct_v the_o christian_n be_v ignorant_a in_o the_o hebrew_n tongue_n what_o book_n they_o shall_v use_v against_o the_o jew_n for_o which_o cause_n he_o also_o address_v his_o new_a translation_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n out_o of_o the_o hebrew_n as_o in_o many_o place_n he_o protest_v ruff._n hie._n apol._n ad_fw-la ruff._n and_o that_o the_o church_n in_o canonise_a those_o other_o book_n mean_v not_o for_o all_o that_o that_o they_o shall_v be_v use_v against_o the_o jew_n who_o receive_v they_o not_o and_o therefore_o will_v but_o laugh_v at_o we_o for_o our_o labour_n howbeit_o also_o if_o s._n hierome_n do_v say_v in_o the_o protestant_n sense_n that_o the_o church_n than_o receive_v not_o those_o book_n neither_o in_o she_o own_o canon_n that_o make_v nothing_o for_o the_o protestant_n for_o we_o grant_v the_o time_n be_v when_o the_o church_n do_v not_o general_o receive_v some_o of_o those_o book_n to_o make_v for_o the_o protestant_n he_o shall_v have_v say_v that_o the_o church_n and_o not_o only_o any_o private_a person_n neither_o do_v then_o nor_o ought_v afterwards_o to_o receive_v they_o 216._o pur._n 216._o where_o now_o be_v fulke_n that_o say_v hieronym_n do_v simple_o refuse_v these_o book_n of_o the_o machabée_n again_o hieronym_n say_v the_o church_n receive_v they_o not_o for_o canonical_a 386._o pur._n 386._o yea_o moreover_o i_o have_v by_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n answer_v they_o and_o again_o of_o tobias_n book_n 215.230_o pur._n 215.230_o i_o have_v show_v by_o authority_n of_o hieronym_n which_o be_v proof_n sufficient_a against_o the_o papist_n that_o the_o church_n receive_v not_o this_o book_n of_o tobias_n for_o canonical_a scripture_n all_o this_o you_o say_v but_o i_o have_v show_v that_o not_o so_o much_o as_o hierome_n himself_o make_v with_o you_o though_o also_o if_o he_o do_v cap._n supra_fw-la pa._n 1._o eodem_fw-la cap._n that_o be_v not_o proof_n sufficient_a against_o we_o as_o i_o have_v tell_v you_o plain_a enough_o before_o that_o it_o be_v only_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o doctor_n to_o which_o we_o attribute_v infallibility_n and_o the_o scope_n that_o of_o confidence_n of_o our_o cause_n we_o geve_v you_o to_o bring_v one_o doctor_n if_o you_o can_v be_v not_o in_o these_o bymatter_n but_o in_o our_o principal_a controversy_n and_o this_o much_o of_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n though_o it_o be_v somewhat_o beside_o my_o limit_n whereunto_o yet_o i_o must_v needs_o add_v the_o place_n where_o you_o say_v thus_o 218._o pur._n 218._o if_o martin_n luther_n and_o illyricus_n have_v sometime_o doubt_v of_o s._n james_n epistle_n they_o be_v not_o the_o first_o that_o doubt_v of_o it_o eusebius_n say_v plain_o it_o be_v a_o counterfeit_a epistle_n lib._n 2._o cap._n 23._o and_o yet_o he_o be_v not_o account_v a_o heretic_n i_o say_v not_o this_o to_o excuse_v they_o that_o doubt_n of_o it_o for_o i_o be_o persuade_v they_o be_v more_o curious_a than_o wise_a in_o so_o do_v do_v you_o make_v it_o but_o curiosity_n to_o doubt_v of_o that_o scripture_n which_o yourself_o also_o confess_v to_o be_v canonical_a howbeit_o luther_n not_o only_o doubt_v of_o it_o but_o also_o utter_o reject_v it_o even_o with_o as_o great_a courage_n as_o you_o have_v here_o reject_v the_o second_o of_o the_o machabée_n and_o that_o also_o after_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v this_o no_o worse_o than_o eusebius_n his_o fault_n before_o the_o church_n declaration_n o_o worthy_a estimation_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n what_o matter_n will_v not_o you_o license_v they_o of_o your_o side_n to_o doubt_v of_o without_o note_n of_o heresy_n when_o you_o dare_v so_o do_v in_o that_o which_o with_o you_o be_v the_o great_a and_o yet_o also_o to_o show_v what_o a_o merchant_n you_o be_v falsarie_a a_o falsarie_a eusebius_n say_v not_o as_o you_o charge_v he_o but_o the_o clean_a contrary_n 22_o eu._n li._n 2._o c._n 22_o his_o word_n be_v these_o of_o james_n i_o read_v so_o much_o by_o who_o the_o first_o of_o the_o epistle_n which_o be_v name_v catholicae_fw-la be_v say_v to_o be_v write_v but_o this_o one_o thing_n i_o may_v not_o omit_v that_o although_o of_o some_o it_o be_v take_v for_o a_o counterfeit_n because_o no_o such_o number_n of_o the_o ancient_a writer_n make_v any_o mention_n at_o all_o of_o it_o as_o neither_o of_o that_o which_o be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o epistle_n of_o jude_n which_o also_o be_v set_v in_o the_o number_n of_o the_o seven_o epistle_n catholical_a tamen_fw-la nos_fw-la istas_fw-la cum_fw-la reliquis_fw-la in_fw-la quamplurimis_fw-la ecclesijs_fw-la publicè_fw-la receptas_fw-la approbatasque_fw-la cognovimus_fw-la yet_o we_o have_v find_v these_o with_o the_o residue_n to_o be_v public_o receive_v and_o approve_v in_o very_a many_o church_n ij_o about_o only_a scripture_n next_o unto_o this_o i_o take_v in_o hand_n the_o question_n of_o only_a scripture_n think_v better_a to_o defer_v the_o rest_n touch_v purgatory_n to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o chapter_n dispatch_v also_o all_o other_o question_n before_o because_o they_o be_v short_a how_o he_o ascribe_v all_o authority_n to_o only_a scripture_n and_o nothing_o to_o aught_o else_o we_o hear_v in_o the_o seven_o chapter_n side_n if_o the_o doctor_n be_v not_o of_o their_o own_o side_n they_o be_v on_o â—ulks_v side_n now_o he_o will_v bear_v the_o ignorant_a in_o hand_n that_o the_o doctor_n be_v of_o the_o same_o opinion_n yet_o confess_v withal_o that_o they_o hold_v the_o contrary_a no_o less_o than_o we_o do_v as_o partly_o in_o that_o same_o chapter_n we_o see_v partly_o here_o again_o we_o shall_v see_v and_o therefore_o in_o this_o question_n again_o as_o in_o other_o afore_o it_o be_v no_o more_o against_o we_o then_o against_o those_o doctor_n themselves_o whatsoever_o he_o wre_v out_o of_o their_o writing_n cyprian_n will_v have_v nothing_o do_v in_o the_o celebration_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n &_o namely_o in_o minister_a of_o the_o cup_n 287._o pur._n 287._o but_o that_o christ_n himself_o do_v li._n 2._o epist_n 3._o i_o answer_v he_o write_v there_o contra_fw-la aquarios_fw-la against_o they_o that_o offer_v in_o the_o chalice_n water_n only_o whereas_o christ_n offer_v wine_n that_o he_o call_v aliud_fw-la quà m_fw-la quod_fw-la pro_fw-la nobis_fw-la dominus_fw-la prio_fw-la fecit_fw-la a_o other_o thing_n then_o that_o which_o christ_n do_v first_o for_o we_o as_o be_v clean_o against_o christ_n do_v and_o such_o a_o do_v as_o he_o do_v for_o a_o tradition_n to_o us._n but_o otherwise_o to_o mingle_v the_o wine_n with_o water_n s._n cyprian_a there_o require_v and_o that_o also_o by_o christ_n tradition_n and_o therefore_o he_o build_v not_o upon_o only_a scripture_n as_o you_o in_o allege_v he_o seem_v to_o pretend_v 303._o pur._n 303._o now_o for_o a_o other_o doctor_n where_o chrysostome_n say_v it_o be_v decree_v by_o the_o apostle_n that_o in_o the_o celebration_n of_o the_o holy_a mystery_n a_o remembrance_n shall_v be_v make_v of_o they_o that_o be_v depart_v we_o will_v be_v bold_a to_o charge_v he_o with_o his_o own_o say_n and_o there_o you_o allege_v four_o place_n out_o of_o he_o against_o himself_o as_o it_o be_v for_o only_a scripture_n be_v not_o this_o pretty_a show_v of_o the_o doctor_n to_o be_v of_o your_o side_n and_o what_o be_v these_o place_n of_o s._n chrysostome_n first_o 69._o idem_fw-la ar._n 69._o hom._n de_fw-fr adam_n et_fw-fr heva_n satis_fw-la sufficere_fw-la etc._n etc._n we_o think_v it_o suffice_v enough_o whatsoever_o
make_v mention_v also_o of_o 19_o of_o eus_n li._n 7._o ca._n 19_o the_o hymn_n of_o nepos_n theodoretus_n and_o zosomenus_fw-la of_o 15._o of_o theo._n lib._n 4._o ca._n 24._o zoso_n l._n 3._o ca._n 15._o the_o hymn_n of_o s._n esrem_fw-la in_o the_o feast_n of_o martyr_n and_o s._n augustine_n very_o often_o of_o 6.7.12_o of_o aug._n retr_v li._n 1._o ca._n 21._o confess_v l._n 9_o ca._n 6.7.12_o the_o hymn_n of_o s._n ambrose_n the_o council_n of_o laod._n do_v no_o more_o but_o forbid_v privatos_fw-la &_o vulgares_fw-la psalmos_fw-la private_a and_o vulgar_a psalm_n make_v by_o simple_a man_n to_o be_v say_v in_o the_o church_n as_o the_o 23._o the_o con._n mil._n ca._n 12._o con._n cart._n 3._o ca._n 23._o milevitane_n council_n also_o command_v that_o no_o other_o prayer_n or_o collecte_v or_o mass_n or_o preface_n or_o commendation_n or_o handlaying_n be_v say_v in_o the_o church_n nisi_fw-la quae_fw-la a_o prudentioribus_fw-la tractatae_fw-la but_o such_o as_o have_v be_v examine_v by_o some_o more_o skilful_a or_o allow_v in_o the_o synod_n lest_o it_o chance_v something_o to_o be_v make_v against_o the_o faith_n or_o by_o ignorance_n or_o by_o negligence_n likewise_o touch_v lesson_n the_o council_n of_o laod_z do_v no_o more_o but_o forbid_v the_o apocryphal_a scripture_n libros_fw-la non_fw-la canonicos_fw-la to_o be_v read_v sed_fw-la solos_fw-la canonicos_fw-la veteris_fw-la &_o novi_fw-la testimenti_fw-la but_o the_o only_a canonical_a book_n of_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n 20._o con._n cart._n 3._o ca._n 47._o ar._n 20._o as_o also_o the_o .3_o council_n of_o carthage_n decree_v that_o beside_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n nothing_o be_v read_v in_o the_o church_n under_o name_n of_o the_o divine_a scripture_n for_o which_o cause_n both_o council_n do_v there_o declare_v which_o book_n be_v canonical_a and_o the_o carthage_n council_n add_v also_o that_o the_o martyr_n passion_n may_v be_v read_v when_o their_o anniversarie_n day_n be_v celebrate_v these_o example_n declare_v manifest_o that_o you_o detest_v in_o our_o service_n even_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v in_o the_o service_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o all_o without_o cause_n and_o that_o it_o be_v a_o horrible_a blasphemy_n where_o you_o say_v if_o you_o demand_v whence_o your_o ceremony_n now_o why_o then_o do_v you_o keep_v they_o now_o festival_n day_n feast_n and_o variety_n of_o service_n do_v proceed_v i_o answer_v plain_o out_o of_o the_o bottomless_a pit_n of_o hell_n for_o touch_v day_n also_o which_o may_v be_v the_o last_o example_n of_o fast_v and_o feast_v you_o confess_v cap._n 3._o pag._n 13._o and_o cap._n 6._o pag._n 43._o that_o aerius_n and_o jovinianus_n be_v condemn_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o heretic_n because_o they_o deny_v the_o day_n and_o merit_n of_o fast_v and_o the_o scripture_n that_o you_o object_n against_o the_o father_n &_o we_o for_o it_o i_o have_v answer_v cap._n 8._o pag._n 140._o to_o .143_o 20._o ar._n 20._o likewise_o you_o confess_v that_o festival_n day_n be_v use_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n add_v to_o show_v of_o what_o church_n you_o be_v that_o they_o may_v have_v be_v omit_v without_o any_o hurt_n of_o christian_a religion_n well_o but_o they_o be_v not_o keep_v in_o honour_n of_o the_o saint_n as_o they_o be_v of_o the_o papist_n for_o that_o be_v great_a idolatry_n as_o also_o to_o build_v church_n in_o the_o honour_n of_o saint_n but_o only_o for_o the_o memory_n of_o the_o martyr_n and_o other_o saint_n that_o their_o good_a life_n may_v be_v follow_v whether_o for_o that_o only_a let_v s._n augustine_n be_v witness_n where_o he_o say_v the_o christian_a people_n do_v celebrate_v together_o the_o martyr_n memory_n with_o religious_a solemnity_n 21._o aug._n contra_fw-la faust_n l._n 20._o ca._n 21._o et_fw-la ad_fw-la exitandam_fw-la imitationem_fw-la et_fw-la ut_fw-la meritis_fw-la eorum_fw-la consocietur_fw-la atque_fw-la orationibus_fw-la adiwetur_fw-la both_o to_o stir_v up_o imitation_n and_o to_o be_v join_v in_o fellowship_n to_o their_o merit_n and_o holpen_v with_o their_o prayer_n be_v not_o this_o to_o keep_v their_o memory_n in_o their_o honour_n also_o as_o again_o it_o be_v manifest_v not_o only_o by_o certain_a place_n allege_v before_o but_o also_o in_o the_o very_a word_n that_o you_o allege_v de_fw-fr ver_fw-la relig._n cap._n 55._o 20.54_o ar._n 20.54_o the_o saint_n must_v be_v honour_v for_o imitation_n not_o adore_v for_o religion_n honoramus_fw-la eos_fw-la charitate_fw-la non_fw-la seruitute_fw-la we_o honour_v the_o bless_a angel_n with_o charity_n not_o with_o service_n do_v he_o not_o here_o express_o avouch_v their_o honour_n as_o for_o your_o note_n that_o seruitus_fw-la be_v the_o same_o that_o dulia_n be_v contrary_a to_o the_o papist_n which_o will_v worship_v they_o with_o service_n call_v dulia_n or_o seruitus_fw-la it_o be_v but_o your_o unacquayntance_n in_o s._n augustine_n writing_n read_v de_fw-fr civit._n dei_fw-la li._n 10._o ca._n 1._o latria_n seruitus_fw-la latria_n latriam_fw-la quip_n nostri_fw-la ubicunque_fw-la sanctarum_fw-la scripturarum_fw-la positum_fw-la est_fw-la interpretati_fw-la sunt_fw-la seruituten_n for_o whersoever_o in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n in_o greek_a be_v put_v latria_n our_o latin_n have_v translate_v it_o seruitus_fw-la and_o so_o you_o may_v see_v that_o he_o use_v seruitus_fw-la for_o latria_n not_o for_o dulia_n as_o also_o he_o use_v religio_fw-la for_o thresceia_fw-la be_v synonymum_fw-la to_o latreia_fw-la but_o say_v he_o speak_v of_o cultus_fw-la deitati_fw-la debitus_fw-la the_o worship_n due_a to_o the_o godhead_n propter_fw-la quem_fw-la uno_fw-la verbo_fw-la significandun_v quoniam_fw-la satis_fw-la mihi_fw-la idoneum_fw-la non_fw-la occurrit_fw-la latinum_fw-la greco_n etc._n etc._n because_o to_o signify_v it_o in_o one_o word_n i_o find_v no_o latin_a word_n apt_a enough_o neither_o religio_fw-la nor_o 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the_o dead_a be_v all_o one_o whether_o it_o be_v in_o latin_a or_o in_o english_a yet_o because_o he_o hold_v that_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n let_v we_o see_v what_o be_v his_o ground_n thereof_o 49.40_o ar._n 49.40_o we_o can_v easy_o show_v it_o out_o of_o the_o scripture_n so_o he_o say_v but_o no_o word_n that_o he_o allege_v any_o where_n but_o belike_o he_o mean_v the_o place_n to_o the_o corinthian_n by_o which_o his_o fellow_n do_v common_o reject_v the_o latin_a service_n as_o if_o it_o be_v that_o miraculous_a gift_n which_o the_o apostle_n there_o call_v 14._o 1._o cor._n 14._o loqui_fw-la linguis_fw-la to_o speak_v with_o tongue_n which_o also_o he_o do_v not_o reject_v but_o moderate_a for_o the_o variety_n of_o certain_a much_o like_o to_o 7._o to_o pur._n 7._o some_o protestant_n that_o think_v all_o learning_n to_o be_v the_o tongue_n now_o if_o any_o learned_a man_n see_v it_o be_v not_o the_o service_n that_o s._n paul_n there_o speak_v of_o think_v yet_o that_o one_o may_v argue_v thence_o at_o the_o least_o a_o simili_fw-la let_v he_o consider_v first_o that_o so_o the_o manner_n of_o the_o simple_a catholic_n who_o pray_v to_o themselves_o private_o in_o the_o latin_a tongue_n which_o they_o understande_v not_o be_v not_o condemn_v but_o justify_v for_o he_o that_o speak_v in_o a_o tongue_n speak_v not_o to_o man_n but_o yet_o to_o god_n and_o he_o that_o speak_v in_o a_o tongue_n do_v also_o edify_v himself_o in_o spirit_n that_o be_v in_o affect_v for_o if_o i_o pray_v in_o a_o tongue_n my_o spirit_n or_o affection_n pray_v though_o my_o understanding_n be_v without_o fruit_n and_o therefore_o if_o thou_o bless_v or_o give_v thanks_n in_o spirit_n thou_o do_v it_o well_o but_o if_o there_o be_v no_o interpreter_n let_v he_o be_v silent_a in_o the_o church_n and_o speak_v to_o himself_o and_o to_o god_n the_o difference_n be_v only_o this_o that_o those_o corinthian_n receive_v immediate_o of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n such_o prayer_n
but_o that_o be_v so_o manifest_a to_o be_v speak_v of_o matter_n of_o external_a comeliness_n and_o not_o of_o doctrine_n of_o the_o sacrament_n as_o prayer_n and_o sacrifice_n that_o no_o man_n which_o understand_v what_o diatazesthai_fw-fr do_v signify_v can_v doubt_v or_o make_v any_o question_n of_o it_o be_v it_o so_o as_o you_o say_v but_o what_o have_v you_o forget_v the_o thing_n whereof_o you_o speak_v be_v it_o not_o of_o that_o solemn_a prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a in_o the_o celebration_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n that_o prayer_n we_o say_v be_v diatazis_n one_o of_o s._n paul_n ordination_n what_o unproper_a speech_n be_v here_o special_o s._n augustine_n say_v again_o in_o another_o place_n 3_o augâ—_n ver_fw-la â—_o ser._n 3_o hoc_fw-la enim_fw-la a_o patribus_fw-la traditum_fw-la universa_fw-la obseruat_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la this_o be_v a_o tradition_n of_o the_o father_n that_o be_v the_o apostle_n the_o whole_a church_n observe_v and_o therefore_o it_o be_v such_o a_o thing_n as_o nulla_fw-la morum_fw-la diversitate_fw-la variatur_fw-la when_o they_o which_o be_v depart_v in_o the_o communion_n or_o unity_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o their_o place_n mention_v at_o the_o same_o sacrifice_n to_o pray_v for_o they_o and_o to_o mention_v that_o for_o they_o also_o it_o be_v offer_v thus_o you_o have_v a_o piece_n of_o the_o cause_n why_o the_o scripture_n contain_v not_o the_o whole_a order_n of_o celebration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n to_o wit_n for_o brevity_n sake_n and_o what_o do_v that_o or_o any_o other_o cause_n let_v other_o writer_n to_o make_v mention_n of_o such_o thing_n when_o aerius_n the_o heretic_n compel_v they_o or_o any_o other_o just_a occasion_n be_v minister_v you_o imagine_v and_o that_o deceive_v you_o as_o though_o the_o apostle_n purpose_v to_o put_v all_o in_o writing_n which_o if_o they_o have_v neither_o so_o many_o of_o they_o write_v that_o all_o be_v not_o write_v nor_o one_o of_o they_o so_o 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story_n before_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n though_o foretell_v it_o be_v the_o whole_a course_n i_o say_v of_o the_o church_n even_o to_o the_o glorious_a consummation_n thereof_o in_o the_o apocalypse_n the_o other_o book_n be_v write_v special_o against_o the_o perfidious_a jew_n and_o other_o false_a master_n of_o that_o time_n as_o likewise_o in_o every_o age_n afterward_o against_o the_o several_a heresy_n of_o each_o age_n we_o have_v the_o ecclesiastical_a i_o say_v not_o canonical_a writer_n and_o counsel_n and_o therefore_o unless_o any_o thing_n belong_v to_o each_o time_n be_v omit_v in_o the_o writing_n of_o each_o time_n no_o marvel_n at_o all_o for_o the_o omission_n of_o other_o thing_n which_o there_o be_v then_o no_o such_o occasion_n to_o express_v this_o i_o shall_v have_v reserve_v to_o a_o other_o place_n but_o that_o this_o insolent_a poser_n may_v not_o abide_v any_o delay_n 264._o pur._n 264._o now_o then_o to_o go_v forward_o with_o he_o i_o know_v say_v he_o the_o papist_n will_v answer_v that_o tradition_n be_v of_o as_o good_a credit_n as_o the_o scripture_n 11._o 1._o thes_n 2._o 2._o thes_n 2._o 1._o cor._n 11._o and_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n unwritten_a as_o well_o as_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n write_v and_o good_a reason_n for_o the_o scripture_n itself_o so_o teach_v us._n but_o why_o then_o say_v he_o do_v they_o not_o observe_v all_o thing_n that_o tertullian_n in_o the_o same_o place_n affirm_v to_o be_v tradition_n this_o why_o i_o have_v answer_v in_o the_o sixth_o chapter_n 36_o supra_fw-la â—_o par_fw-fr 1._o dâ—_n pur._n 36_o moreover_o he_o say_v their_o writing_n be_v to_o we_o the_o only_a true_a testimony_n of_o their_o tradition_n so_o be_v they_o not_o to_o the_o thessalonian_o for_o they_o have_v of_o s._n paul_n traditiones_fw-la per_fw-la sermonen_fw-mi &_o per_fw-la epistolam_fw-la 40_o pur._n 40_o tradition_n partly_o by_o word_n of_o mouth_n partly_o by_o write_v yea_o he_o say_v further_a when_o the_o apostolic_a writing_n can_v not_o be_v show_v it_o be_v but_o the_o point_n of_o a_o heretic_n to_o boast_v of_o apostolic_a tradition_n so_o he_o say_v to_o d._n allen._n but_o to_o the_o old_a father_n i_o hope_v he_o will_v be_v somewhat_o better_a and_o content_a to_o take_v only_o his_o exception_n against_o they_o as_o where_o he_o say_v â—_o pur._n 39_o â—_o if_o tertullian_n have_v no_o ground_n of_o his_o say_n when_o he_o affirm_v that_o oblation_n for_o the_o dead_a come_v from_o the_o apostle_n what_o ground_n can_v augustine_n have_v which_o be_v 200._o year_n further_o from_o the_o apostle_n time_n than_o he_o again_o 39_o pur._n 39_o chrysostom_n can_v no_o more_o prove_v that_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a come_v from_o the_o apostle_n than_o tertullian_n can_v prove_v that_o oblation_n for_o the_o dead_a come_v from_o they_o again_o but_o where_o he_o say_v 304._o pur._n 30_o 304._o it_o be_v decree_v by_o the_o apostle_n that_o in_o the_o celebration_n of_o the_o holy_a mystery_n a_o remembrance_n shall_v be_v make_v of_o they_o that_o be_v depart_v he_o must_v pardon_v we_o of_o credit_v because_o he_o can_v not_o show_v it_o out_o of_o the_o act_n and_o writing_n of_o the_o apostle_n we_o must_v not_o believe_v chrysostome_n without_o scripture_n affirm_v that_o it_o be_v ordain_v so_o by_o the_o apostle_n howbeit_o sometime_o he_o be_v bold_a yet_o with_o the_o father_n for_o avouch_v this_o tradition_n he_o dare_v not_o call_v they_o heretic_n for_o it_o but_o yet_o he_o dare_v to_o charge_v they_o with_o doutfulnes_n &_o contradiction_n about_o it_o for_o of_o chrysostome_n he_o say_v 3_o pur._n 39_o chrysom_n ep._n ad_fw-la â—_o hom._n 3_o lo_o m._n allen_n your_o own_o doctor_n confess_v it_o be_v but_o small_a help_n that_o can_v be_v procure_v by_o prayer_n alm_n or_o remembrance_n of_o they_o at_o the_o celebration_n of_o the_o holy_a mystery_n you_o will_v say_v that_o soon_o after_o he_o say_v the_o apostle_n that_o institute_v such_o memory_n know_v that_o much_o commodity_n come_v to_o the_o dead_a then_o see_v how_o soon_o he_o forget_v himself_o when_o he_o follow_v not_o the_o rule_n of_o holy_a scripture_n and_o again_o 39_o ar._n 39_o yet_o do_v not_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a so_o prevail_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n that_o they_o dare_v define_v what_o profit_n the_o soul_n receive_v thereby_o for_o chrysostome_n say_v let_v we_o procure_v they_o some_o help_n small_a help_n true_o but_o yet_o let_v we_o help_v they_o likewise_o augustine_n 13._o aug._n â—_o fes_n lib._n cap._n 13._o where_o he_o pray_v for_o his_o father_n and_o mother_n declare_v how_o uncertain_a he_o be_v of_o the_o matter_n one_o while_o he_o fear_v the_o danger_n of_o every_o soul_n that_o die_v in_o adam_n a_o other_o while_o he_o believe_v that_o they_o need_v not_o his_o prayer_n yet_o he_o desire_v god_n to_o accept_v the_o same_o and_o move_v other_o man_n to_o remember_v they_o in_o their_o prayer_n thus_o it_o be_v necessary_a that_o they_o wander_v which_o lean_a unto_o man_n tradition_n without_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o in_o the_o same_o place_n s._n augustine_n in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr cura_fw-la pro_fw-la mortuis_fw-la agenda_fw-la weari_v himself_o and_o in_o the_o end_n can_v define_v nothing_o in_o certain_a how_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n shall_v hear_v the_o prayer_n of_o man_n on_o earth_n such_o doubtfulness_n they_o fall_v into_o that_o leave_v the_o word_n of_o god_n &_o lean_a to_o tradition_n although_o he_o be_v willing_a to_o maintain_v invocation_n of_o saint_n 317._o pur._n 317._o yet_o he_o have_v nothing_o of_o certainty_n out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n either_o to_o persuade_v his_o own_o conscience_n or_o to_o satisfy_v they_o that_o move_v the_o doubt_n unto_o he_o for_o s._n augustine_n de_fw-fr
the_o cross_n and_o the_o sign_n thereof_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o in_o your_o usual_a rail_n against_o dumb_a image_n 6._o ar._n 4._o pur._n 20.21.22.460_o 2._o cor._n 6._o stock_n and_o stone_n you_o do_v no_o more_o but_o utter_v that_o you_o be_v no_o more_o of_o the_o ancient_a true_a church_n then_o of_o our_o church_n now_o which_o you_o deny_v to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n s._n paul_n in_o deed_n say_v that_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n and_o idol_n can_v not_o agree_v together_o speak_v of_o christian_n that_o do_v draw_v with_o infidel_n as_o receive_v of_o meat_n sacrifice_v to_o their_o idol_n such_o as_o now_o receive_v of_o caluins_n bread_n but_o that_o the_o true_a temple_n of_o god_n and_o image_n belong_v to_o the_o same_o god_n agree_v well_o together_o you_o can_v not_o deny_v but_o you_o must_v revoke_v your_o own_o confession_n make_v here_o of_o those_o ancient_a temple_n of_o christ_n and_o therefore_o you_o do_v but_o like_o yourself_o to_o say_v i_o care_v not_o what_o your_o father_n call_v or_o count_v sacrilege_n but_o god_n our_o heavenly_a father_n command_v we_o to_o break_v burn_v and_o destroy_v all_o your_o idol_n and_o to_o deface_v all_o the_o monument_n of_o they_o deut._n 12._o and_o all_o the_o godly_a patriarch_n and_o father_n both_o before_o christ_n come_v and_o since_o have_v give_v we_o example_n hereof_o what_o else_o they_o give_v we_o example_n to_o set_v up_o cross_n &_o you_o example_n to_o pull_v they_o down_o you_o may_v roll_v in_o such_o rhetoric_n before_o fool_n that_o receive_v your_o absurd_a principle_n to_o wit_n that_o the_o idol_n of_o the_o pagan_n be_v image_n of_o the_o christian_n but_o when_o the_o simple_a catholic_a do_v no_o more_o but_o deny_v your_o principle_n you_o be_v by_o and_o by_o non_fw-la plus_fw-la no_o sir_n but_o to_o avoid_v prolixity_n i_o can_v tell_v you_o plain_o and_o at_o large_a who_o be_v your_o father_n in_o these_o spoil_n that_o you_o have_v make_v of_o christ_n church_n to_o wit_n the_o donatist_n the_o arrian_n the_o eutychian_o yea_o julianus_n apostata_fw-la yea_o and_o that_o you_o have_v outshoot_v they_o all_o and_o leave_v nothing_o to_o antichrist_n himself_o but_o only_a to_o fill_v up_o the_o measure_n as_o i_o have_v sufficient_o touch_v cap._n 8._o pag._n 128._o and_o therefore_o neither_o will_v that_o serve_v which_o again_o you_o say_v 341._o pur._n 341._o such_o living_n as_o be_v appoint_v we_o by_o the_o prince_n and_o the_o law_n we_o may_v enjoy_v with_o a_o good_a conscience_n no_o sir_n it_o will_v not_o serve_v for_o you_o may_v remember_v the_o story_n in_o s._n ambrose_n de_fw-fr basilicis_fw-la tradendis_fw-la 33._o ambr._n li._n 5._o post_v epist_n 32._o &_o ep_v 33._o he_o will_v die_v rather_o than_o to_o deliver_v the_o church_n to_o the_o emperor_n and_o the_o arrian_n empress_n his_o mother_n and_o so_o you_o enjoy_v our_o church_n with_o as_o good_a a_o conscience_n as_o the_o arrian_n shall_v have_v do_v at_o that_o time_n as_o you_o shall_v feel_v when_o you_o come_v in_o your_o course_n after_o your_o senior_n before_o the_o just_a judge_n our_o mother_n husband_n who_o dowry_n they_o be_v 22._o service_n 6._o motive_n 32._o article_n 6._o the_o 22._o demand_n be_v of_o the_o service_n which_o fulke_n in_o word_n challenge_v no_o less_o than_o we_o say_v here_o cap._n 2._o pag._n 4._o constantinus_n build_v those_o church_n for_o our_o assembly_n and_o service_n and_o in_o the_o cryptes_n also_o before_o that_o our_o assembly_n be_v keep_v but_o in_o deed_n he_o confess_v that_o it_o be_v we_o and_o reject_v it_o according_o so_o that_o i_o must_v stand_v here_o to_o defend_v it_o rather_o than_o to_o claim_v it_o 377._o pur._n 377._o his_o defence_n of_o their_o new_a communion_n book_n be_v this_o whosoever_o be_v child_n of_o the_o true_a church_n will_v never_o find_v fault_n with_o our_o communion_n which_o can_v not_o be_v condemn_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o therefore_o care_v not_o for_o the_o comparison_n of_o the_o custom_n of_o other_o man_n which_o whether_o they_o use_v the_o like_a or_o not_o in_o form_n of_o word_n which_o be_v not_o material_a so_o they_o use_v not_o other_o substance_n of_o matter_n except_o they_o do_v it_o beside_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o yet_o it_o must_v be_v prejudicial_a to_o our_o mass_n book_n not_o that_o the_o hook_n be_v make_v since_o the_o apostle_n time_n 402.413_o ar._n 21.38_o pur._n 402.413_o but_o that_o any_o piece_n be_v add_v since_o by_o certain_a pope_n yea_o though_o the_o very_a same_o piece_n be_v retain_v in_o their_o communion_n book_n also_o let_v all_o man_n therefore_o consider_v how_o just_a the_o defence_n be_v that_o i_o make_v in_o this_o demand_n to_o wit_n that_o no_o piece_n be_v it_o never_o so_o new_a neither_o in_o the_o mass_n book_n nor_o in_o our_o other_o service_n book_n be_v contrary_a to_o the_o old_a faith_n of_o the_o apostle_n contain_v in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n write_v or_o unwritten_a yea_o the_o same_o in_o substance_n and_o common_o in_o form_n of_o word_n also_o be_v in_o the_o apostle_n and_o father_n church_n have_v the_o primitive_a church_n have_v the_o same_o service_n that_o the_o church_n 〈◊〉_d have_v let_v one_o example_n hereof_o be_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o that_o also_o in_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o mass_n as_o fulke_v himself_o confess_v here_o at_o large_a cap._n 3._o pag._n 16._o to_o .21_o and_o whatsoever_o he_o object_v against_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o we_o for_o it_o say_v they_o have_v it_o of_o the_o devil_n &c._n &c._n cap._n 3._o pag._n 22._o that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o scripture_n and_o contrary_a to_o the_o same_o doctor_n themselves_o i_o have_v answer_v all_o cap._n 6._o pag._n 47._o to_o 56._o and_o cap._n 8._o pag._n 133._o to_o 134._o and_o cap._n 9_o pag._n 161._o to_o 164._o pag_n 193._o to_o 214._o let_v another_o example_n be_v pray_v to_o saint_n as_o he_o also_o confess_v here_o cap._n 3._o pag_n 10._o and_o what_o he_o object_v against_o the_o fater_n and_o we_o for_o it_o i_o answer_v cap._n 6._o and_o cap._n 8._o pag._n 138._o save_v one_o place_n of_o s._n augustine_n 55._o ar._n 55._o upon_o which_o he_o say_v note_v that_o no_o sacrifice_n ought_v to_o be_v offer_v to_o martyr_n but_o prayer_n be_v a_o sacrifice_n therefore_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v offer_v only_o to_o god_n second_o that_o martyr_n be_v not_o call_v upon_o in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n but_o only_o name_v for_o remembrance_n cunning_o note_v as_o appear_v by_o these_o word_n of_o he_o in_o another_o place_n 17._o aug._n tract_n 84._o in_o joa._n de_fw-fr ve_fw-la ap._n sermo_fw-la 17._o non_fw-la sic_fw-la beatos_fw-la martyr_n etc._n etc._n we_o do_v not_o make_v such_o a_o commemoration_n of_o the_o bless_a martyr_n as_o of_o other_o that_o rest_n in_o peace_n that_o we_o also_o pray_v for_o they_o but_o rather_o that_o they_o may_v pray_v for_o us._n be_v this_o to_o be_v only_o name_v for_o remembrance_n neither_o in_o the_o 10._o the_o aug._n civi_fw-la li._n 22._o ca_fw-mi 10._o place_n that_o you_o allege_v do_v he_o say_v that_o they_o be_v not_o call_v upon_o in_o the_o time_n of_o sacrifice_n but_o non_fw-la tamen_fw-la a_o sacerdote_fw-la qui_fw-la sacrificat_fw-la invocantur_fw-la the_o priest_n that_o sacrifice_v etc._n aug._n civit._n li._n 8._o ca._n 27._o offerimus_fw-la domine_fw-la pater_fw-la praeclare_fw-la maiestati_fw-la tuus_fw-la etc._n etc._n do_v not_o invocate_v they_o and_o what_o he_o mean_v by_o his_o invocation_n that_o sacrifice_v he_o declare_v there_o afore_o say_v which_o of_o the_o faithful_a ever_o hear_v the_o priest_n stand_v at_o a_o altar_n though_o also_o make_v upon_o the_o holy_a body_n of_o a_o martyr_n for_o god_n honour_n and_o service_n to_o say_v in_o the_o prayer_n or_o canon_n offero_fw-la tibi_fw-la sacrificium_fw-la petre_n vel_fw-la paul_n well_fw-mi cyprian_a i_o offer_v sacrifice_n to_o thou_o o_o peter_n or_o paul_n or_o cyprian_a but_o otherwise_o for_o pray_v to_o martyr_n s._n augustine_n be_v very_o plain_a in_o the_o same_o work_n the_o same_o book_n and_o almost_o the_o same_o chapter_n tell_v certain_a miracle_n one_o in_o a_o woman_n that_o pray_v to_o the_o holy_a martyr_n s._n steven_n 8.9.10_o aug._n ci_fw-fr l._n 2._o ca._n 8.9.10_o in_o s._n augustine_n own_o church_n ad_fw-la sanctum_fw-la martyrem_fw-la orare_fw-la perrexerat_fw-la another_o in_o a_o poor_a man_n that_o pray_v aloud_o to_o the_o twenty_o martyr_n in_o the_o same_o town_n ad_fw-la viginti_fw-la martyr_n clara_fw-la voce_fw-la oravit_fw-la and_o such_o miracle_n be_v do_v he_o say_v by_o god_n at_o the_o martyr_n suit_n &_o instance_n eye_v orantibus_fw-la &_o impetrantibus_fw-la and_o therefore_o whether_o prayer_n be_v
than_o they_o be_v the_o church_n now_o answer_v whatsoever_o objection_n you_o have_v bring_v against_o they_o 5._o ar._n 5._o again_o you_o say_v as_o for_o the_o popish_a church_n she_o be_v so_o blind_a that_o she_o can_v not_o discern_v between_o the_o canonical_a book_n of_o the_o scriprere_n from_o the_o apocryphal_a writing_n as_o appear_v by_o receive_v the_o book_n of_o the_o maccabee_n ecclesiasticus_fw-la etc._n etc._n to_o be_v of_o equal_a authority_n with_o the_o book_n of_o the_o law_n psalm_n etc._n etc._n the_o popish_a church_n that_o canonize_v those_o book_n be_v the_o primitive_a although_o you_o call_v they_o heretic_n which_o do_v it_o as_o i_o have_v show_v plain_o 214._o pur._n 214._o and_o by_o your_o own_o confession_n cap._n 9_o pag._n 165._o and_o that_o you_o be_v fain_o to_o say_v that_o also_o the_o primitive_a church_n therein_o do_v err_v s._n augustine_n therefore_o as_o he_o say_v to_o the_o manichie_n deny_v the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n cui_fw-la libro_fw-la necesse_fw-la est_fw-la i_o credere_fw-la si_fw-la credo_fw-la euangelio_fw-la quoniam_fw-la utramque_fw-la scripturam_fw-la similiter_fw-la mihi_fw-la catholica_fw-la commendat_fw-la authoritas_fw-la i_o must_v needs_o believe_v this_o book_n if_o i_o believe_v the_o gospel_n because_o the_o catholic_a authority_n commend_v unto_o i_o both_o those_o scripture_n alike_o so_o he_o say_v unto_o you_o deny_v the_o machabée_n ecclesiasticus_fw-la judith_n etc._n etc._n i_o must_v needs_o believe_v they_o if_o i_o believe_v the_o gospel_n because_o they_o also_o be_v in_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o same_o church_n as_o he_o tell_v you_o plain_o here_o cap._n 9_o pag._n 165._o and_o therefore_o they_o be_v but_o word_n when_o you_o say_v erewhile_o we_o allow_v and_o believe_v the_o primitive_a church_n testimony_n of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o again_o 10.9_o ar._n 10.9_o we_o have_v most_o steadfast_a assurance_n of_o god_n spirit_n for_o the_o authority_n of_o god_n book_n with_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o true_a church_n in_o all_o age_n and_o so_o we_o know_v it_o to_o be_v true_a you_o believe_v the_o gospel_n for_o the_o church_n testimony_n even_o as_o much_o as_o the_o manichy_n do_v because_o you_o reject_v her_o authority_n &_o canon_n in_o other_o book_n as_o they_o do_v in_o the_o act_n and_o therefore_o again_o you_o do_v but_o condemn_v yourself_o when_o you_o say_v 4.5_o ar._n 4.5_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n commend_v the_o book_n of_o holy_a scripture_n to_o be_v believe_v of_o all_o true_a christian_n and_o again_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n have_v of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n a_o judgement_n to_o discern_v the_o word_n of_o god_n of_o infallible_a verity_n from_o the_o write_n of_o man_n which_o may_v err_v in_o so_o say_v you_o both_o justify_v we_o who_o as_o we_o confess_v that_o church_n so_o we_o believe_v her_o canon_n and_o condemn_v yourselves_o who_o confess_v it_o to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n and_o yet_o deny_v her_o canon_n yea_o and_o general_o her_o authority_n here_o in_o the_o 34._o dem._n hold_v stiff_o that_o she_o may_v err_v and_o do_v err_v in_o many_o thing_n and_o therefore_o make_v only_a scripture_n your_o ground_n for_o all_o thing_n wherein_o how_o contrary_a you_o be_v to_o yourself_o any_o man_n may_v see_v and_o i_o must_v note_v it_o in_o the_o next_o chapter_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n i_o note_v 8._o cap._n 11._o contradict_v 33.34.35_o ar._n 8._o that_o you_o show_v yourselves_o not_o to_o be_v the_o church_n that_o command_v s._n augustine_n to_o believe_v the_o gospel_n in_o that_o you_o say_v free_o we_o do_v not_o challenge_v credit_n to_o ourselves_o in_o any_o point_n so_o presumptuous_o as_o the_o papist_n that_o man_n must_v believe_v it_o because_o we_o affirm_v it_o but_o because_o we_o prove_v it_o to_o be_v true_a by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n by_o what_o place_n of_o scripture_n do_v either_o the_o primitive_a catholic_a church_n prove_v to_o s._n augustine_n or_o can_v you_o prove_v to_o the_o manichée_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n to_o be_v of_o canonical_a authority_n the_o true_a church_n of_o all_o time_n be_v of_o like_a authority_n and_o therefore_o that_o which_o be_v not_o presumption_n then_o be_v not_o presumption_n now_o but_o what_o will_v not_o your_o term_n of_o only_a scripture_n serve_v you_o unto_o when_o by_o it_o you_o argue_v &_o say_v 6._o ar._n 6._o our_o congregation_n have_v ever_o have_v both_o right_a and_o possession_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o appear_v by_o this_o that_o our_o church_n &_o congregation_n beleve_v nothing_o but_o that_o she_o learn_v in_o they_o and_o that_o be_v not_o a_o notable_a plea_n to_o prove_v a_o right_n and_o a_o possession_n yea_o and_o a_o continual_a possession_n i_o report_v i_o to_o your_o lawyer_n what_o a_o forehead_n and_o face_n have_v you_o to_o say_v lie_n a_o substantial_a lie_n that_o your_o company_n have_v evermore_o possession_n of_o the_o bible_n 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29._o as_o in_o our_o church_n at_o this_o day_n a_o man_n may_v find_v all_o the_o holy_a book_n which_o the_o church_n in_o old_a time_n lay_v up_o in_o her_o canon_n thereof_o so_o likewise_o all_o other_o truth_n i_o say_v in_o my_o next_o demand_n which_o in_o any_o of_o her_o counsel_n or_o otherwise_o she_o rule_v over_o &_o canonize_v at_o any_o time_n against_o any_o heresy_n of_o her_o rebel_n or_o against_o any_o error_n of_o her_o own_o obedient_a child_n &_o that_o the_o protestant_n &_o all_o other_o heretic_n have_v no_o truth_n among_o they_o but_o they_o have_v it_o of_o our_o church_n which_o church_n therefore_o i_o say_v be_v now_o and_o ever_o and_o she_o only_o the_o stoarehouse_n both_o of_o canonical_a scripture_n 4._o iren._n contra_fw-la heraeses_fw-la li._n 3_o ca._n 4._o and_o of_o all_o truth_n beside_o and_o therefore_o again_o
word_n of_o truth_n desire_v the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n that_o you_o may_v understande_v and_o believe_v the_o truth_n and_o so_o without_o doubt_v you_o shall_v come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n which_o be_v the_o pillar_n of_o truth_n so_o it_o be_v then_o good_a sir_n in_o this_o seminary_n of_o english_a divine_v under_o the_o government_n of_o d._n allen_n maintain_v by_o his_o holiness_n for_o the_o salvation_n of_o our_o country_n as_o he_o maintain_v the_o like_a for_o germany_n also_o for_o bohemia_n and_o student_n of_o polonia_n england_n the_o pope_n seminary_n for_o england_n suetia_n slavonia_n hungaria_n etc._n etc._n yea_o for_o the_o greek_n likewise_o yea_o also_o for_o the_o hebrews_n we_o have_v such_o exercise_n in_o the_o scripture_n that_o we_o read_v over_o the_o old_a testament_n in_o every_o three_o year_n twelve_o time_n one_o of_o which_o time_n have_v join_v with_o it_o a_o examination_n by_o conference_n 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principal_a and_o as_o you_o make_v it_o all_o in_o all_o all_o other_o help_v you_o count_v but_o subordinate_a and_o serve_v unto_o this_o and_o yet_o in_o they_o also_o i_o dare_v say_v if_o you_o know_v we_o you_o will_v allow_v we_o for_o sufficient_a at_o the_o jest_n you_o may_v by_o the_o trace_n of_o god_n ere_o it_o be_v long_o have_v some_o taste_n of_o we_o therein_o when_o one_o of_o we_o shall_v set_v forth_o a_o book_n to_o show_v to_o the_o world_n that_o the_o hebrew_n and_o greek_a text_n in_o nothing_o make_v for_o you_o against_o we_o and_o in_o very_a many_o thing_n make_v for_o we_o against_o you_o much_o more_o plain_o than_o our_o vulgar_a latin_a text_n now_o then_o how_o much_o more_o certain_a of_o the_o truth_n be_v we_o than_o you_o also_o by_o your_o own_o rule_n because_o your_o diligence_n herein_o be_v nothing_o comparable_a but_o special_o because_o together_o with_o this_o rule_n we_o use_v the_o exposition_n that_o you_o renounce_v of_o the_o ancient_a father_n who_o for_o such_o conference_n of_o place_n and_o all_o other_o study_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v peerless_a ¶_o the_o three_o part_n what_o he_o mean_v by_o his_o only_a scripture_n and_o that_o thereby_o he_o except_v also_o against_o scripture_n itself_o thus_o have_v we_o hear_v this_o protestant_a call_n for_o express_v scripture_n in_o all_o thing_n yea_o also_o in_o the_o expound_v of_o scripture_n now_o that_o he_o seem_v not_o too_o straight_o and_o rigorous_a in_o his_o exception_n he_o will_v tell_v we_o what_o he_o mean_v thereby_o as_o it_o be_v to_o geve_v we_o more_o scope_n but_o in_o deed_n as_o we_o shall_v hear_v soon_o after_o to_o shut_v we_o straight_o up_o and_o to_o except_v also_o against_o scripture_n itself_o unless_o it_o be_v so_o plain_a and_o evident_a for_o we_o that_o by_o no_o subtlety_n of_o they_o they_o may_v avoid_v it_o concern_v the_o former_a thus_o he_o say_v when_o we_o require_v express_v scripture_n for_o every_o controversy_n we_o do_v not_o require_v that_o every_o thing_n shall_v be_v name_v in_o scripture_n but_o necessary_o conclude_v out_o of_o the_o true_a meaning_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o purpose_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n in_o they_o then_o on_o the_o other_o side_n he_o almost_o repent_v himself_o again_o for_o grant_v so_o much_o and_o say_v and_o yet_o we_o may_v say_v 438._o pur._n 438._o it_o be_v a_o great_a prejudice_n against_o your_o purgatory_n and_o prayer_n that_o it_o be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o once_o name_v in_o the_o scripture_n again_o if_o the_o holy_a ghost_n have_v ever_o allow_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a he_o will_v once_o at_o the_o least_o have_v utter_v the_o same_o plain_o in_o holy_a canonical_a scripture_n 452._o pur._n 452._o canonical_a he_o say_v to_o except_v against_o the_o very_a meaning_n of_o it_o also_o which_o he_o see_v in_o the_o book_n of_o the_o machabée_n rather_o shall_v that_o canonical_a scripture_n not_o be_v canonical_a for_o so_o plain_o name_v that_o which_o the_o ear_n of_o the_o protestant_n can_v not_o abide_v well_o in_o the_o other_o canonical_a scripture_n the_o name_n be_v not_o and_o that_o be_v a_o great_a prejudice_n against_o us._n but_o he_o will_v be_v favourable_a unto_o we_o a_o great_a prejudice_n shall_v not_o make_v he_o geve_v judgement_n against_o we_o if_o at_o least_o the_o thing_n itself_o be_v teach_v or_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o the_o scripture_n yet_o again_o he_o remember_v himself_o 452._o pur._n 452._o that_o d._n allen_n have_v allege_v many_o scripture_n for_o that_o thing_n and_o the_o old_a father_n likewise_o before_o he_o and_o therefore_o to_o tie_v we_o yet_o straight_a with_o another_o exception_n he_o say_v here_o a_o little_a afore_o but_o we_o require_v that_o every_o thing_n be_v necessary_o conclude_v out_o of_o the_o true_a meaning_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o again_o he_o say_v speak_v of_o d._n allen_n see_v the_o confidence_n of_o the_o man_n he_o be_v sure_a 364._o pur._n 364._o that_o if_o we_o be_v examine_v of_o our_o conscience_n what_o trial_n of_o this_o doubt_n we_o will_v wish_v there_o be_v none_o we_o can_v name_v but_o his_o cause_n may_v well_o abide_v it_o whereunto_o he_o answer_v say_v why_o m._n allen_n we_o have_v testify_v of_o our_o conscience_n long_o ago_o that_o the_o only_a authority_n of_o god_n word_n write_v shall_v satisfy_v we_o as_o well_o in_o this_o as_o in_o all_o other_o matter_n if_o you_o be_v able_a we_o shall_v have_v hear_v before_o this_o time_n some_o sentence_n of_o scripture_n to_o maintain_v prayer_n and_o sacrifice_n for_o the_o dead_a why_o in_o the_o three_o chapter_n here_o you_o confess_v that_o you_o have_v hear_v of_o he_o diverse_a sentence_n and_o not_o of_o he_o alone_o 19_o supra_fw-la pag._n 19_o but_o also_o of_o the_o father_n of_o the_o true_a church_n yea_o but_o now_o say_v he_o i_o add_v my_o exception_n and_o say_v therefore_o some_o sentence_n not_o stand_v upon_o voluntary_a collection_n but_o either_o in_o plain_a word_n or_o necessary_a conclusion_n for_o there_o be_v nothing_o that_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o know_v nothing_o that_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o do_v but_o either_o in_o express_a word_n or_o in_o necessary_a collection_n which_o be_v as_o good_a as_o express_v word_n it_o be_v set_v forth_o in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n again_o 452._o pur._n 452._o all_o truth_n may_v be_v prove_v by_o scripture_n either_o in_o plain_a word_n or_o by_o necessary_a conclusion_n which_o be_v all_o one_o and_o again_o 189._o pur._n 189._o there_o be_v heresy_n be_v for_o example_n your_o own_o heresy_n no_o heresy_n so_o absurd_a which_o satan_n put_v into_o the_o head_n of_o wicked_a man_n but_o it_o may_v find_v some_o sound_n of_o word_n in_o so_o many_o book_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n that_o by_o perverse_a wit_n may_v be_v wrest_v unto_o it_o but_o the_o doctrine_n of_o god_n truth_n and_o all_o article_n of_o our_o belief_n be_v plain_o teach_v in_o the_o scripture_n either_o by_o manifest_a word_n or_o by_o necessary_a conclusion_n and_o argument_n which_o by_o no_o subtlety_n of_o satan_n or_o his_o instrument_n may_v be_v avoid_v or_o delude_v and_o this_o be_v the_o difference_n between_o heresy_n and_o truth_n when_o they_o both_o appeal_n to_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n which_o difference_n as_o it_o may_v be_v find_v in_o all_o heresy_n so_o in_o none_o more_o notable_o then_o in_o this_o error_n of_o purgatory_n consider_v what_o text_n of_o holy_a scripture_n be_v allege_v rather_o allege_v against_o it_o rather_o for_o it_o &_o you_o shall_v see_v they_o can_v not_o bring_v one_o out_o of_o which_o any_o necessary_a argument_n may_v be_v frame_v to_o prove_v their_o cause_n or_o which_o have_v not_o by_o learned_a interpreter_n of_o the_o old_a time_n
we_o may_v note_v the_o cause_n that_o move_v he_o to_o say_v that_o our_o church_n refuse_v the_o scripture_n as_o if_o he_o shall_v say_v that_o we_o refuse_v faith_n because_o we_o refuse_v only_o faith_n or_o that_o any_o man_n refuse_v his_o own_o best_a evidence_n because_o he_o will_v not_o at_o the_o instance_n of_o his_o adversary_n renounce_v all_o his_o other_o evidence_n be_v they_o never_o so_o many_o never_o so_o good_a never_o so_o well_o try_v and_o so_o much_o use_v by_o his_o auncetor_n &_o also_o most_o agreeable_a every_o one_o of_o they_o to_o his_o foresay_a best_a evidence_n 85._o ar._n 85._o he_o say_v moreover_o she_o have_v nothing_o less_o than_o the_o true_a sense_n of_o god_n word_n which_o submit_v the_o same_o to_o her_o own_o judgement_n 107._o ar._n 107._o again_o the_o popish_a church_n so_o manifest_o dissent_v from_o the_o word_n of_o truth_n that_o she_o dare_v not_o be_v judge_v thereby_o but_o most_o blasphemous_o submit_v the_o same_o to_o her_o own_o judgement_n again_o in_o the_o popish_a church_n god_n word_n be_v make_v subject_n to_o man_n determination_n and_o authority_n and_o again_o 219._o pur._n 219._o by_o which_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o you_o do_v reject_v the_o whole_a authority_n of_o all_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n when_o you_o affirm_v that_o no_o book_n of_o holy_a scripture_n be_v canonical_a but_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o your_o church_n will_v allow_v it_o moreover_o when_o you_o will_v not_o admit_v any_o sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n but_o such_o as_o your_o church_n will_v allow_v here_o be_v two_o other_o cause_n of_o the_o same_o again_o as_o if_o he_o will_v say_v that_o the_o apostle_n in_o their_o time_n or_o the_o church_n then_o church_n note_v which_o be_v this_o popish_a church_n submit_v and_o make_v subject_n the_o scripture_n to_o man_n most_o blasphemous_o and_o only_o of_o their_o own_o will_n 3._o 2._o pet._n 3._o because_o they_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o judge_v of_o the_o true_a sense_n and_o namely_o s._n peter_n for_o say_v that_o the_o unlearned_a he_o self_n be_v but_o a_o fisherman_n and_o the_o unstable_a do_v misconstrue_v s._n paul_n epistle_n sicut_fw-la &_o caeteras_fw-la scripturas_fw-la as_o also_o the_o other_o scripture_n to_o their_o own_o damnation_n and_o again_o as_o though_o the_o same_o apostle_n and_o the_o church_n after_o they_o manifest_o reject_v the_o whole_a authority_n of_o all_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n canonical_a canonical_a &_o do_v all_o only_a of_o their_o own_o will_n because_o they_o make_v a_o canon_n or_o canon_n as_o all_o the_o law_n of_o the_o church_n be_v call_v canon_n whereof_o the_o say_a scripture_n be_v and_o be_v call_v canonical_a whereupon_o himself_o also_o count_v they_o as_o confirm_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n well_o for_o these_o goodly_a cause_n he_o be_v bold_a to_o say_v that_o the_o church_n of_o which_o christ_n say_v general_o if_o he_o will_v not_o hear_v the_o church_n 18._o mat._n 18._o count_v he_o for_o a_o heathen_a and_o a_o publican_n refuse_v and_o reject_v the_o scripture_n and_o again_o to_o d._n allen_n 438._o pur._n 438._o as_o for_o the_o evident_a word_n of_o god_n you_o shame_v not_o to_o boast_v of_o that_o to_o be_v your_o trial_n which_o you_o dare_v as_o well_o eat_v a_o faggot_n as_o abide_v the_o judgement_n of_o it_o in_o any_o lawful_a conference_n or_o disputation_n your_o great_a belwether_n and_o bishop_n declare_v before_o the_o whole_a world_n in_o the_o conference_n of_o westminster_n what_o they_o dare_v abide_v when_o they_o come_v to_o handstroke_n it_o be_v a_o gay_a matter_n for_o such_o a_o chatter_a pie_n as_o you_o be_v to_o make_v a_o fond_a flourish_n a_o far_o off_o in_o word_n to_o please_v your_o patron_n and_o exhibitioner_n it_o be_v a_o other_o thing_n to_o stand_v to_o the_o proof_n in_o deed_n and_o again_o to_o he_o 346._o pur._n 346._o where_o as_o you_o wish_v that_o bede_n history_n be_v make_v familiar_a unto_o all_o 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i_o think_v no_o body_n else_o unless_o some_o body_n may_v know_v that_o which_o be_v not_o he_o be_v rather_o himself_o the_o exhibitioner_n of_o our_o whole_a country_n like_o a_o other_o joseph_n and_o may_v be_v you_o also_o if_o you_o be_v happy_a how_o much_o more_o just_o than_o may_v we_o say_v that_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v hold_v before_o the_o whole_a world_n and_o what_o conference_n will_v you_o admit_v for_o lawful_a on_o our_o part_n when_o as_o you_o refuse_v to_o come_v to_o that_o assembly_n at_o trent_n be_v yet_o so_o earnest_o so_o safe_o and_o so_o honourable_o invite_v thither_o as_o the_o safeconduite_n extant_a in_o the_o act_n of_o the_o council_n do_v witness_n together_o with_o the_o very_a experience_n also_o of_o those_o few_o petites_fw-fr of_o germany_n that_o come_v thither_o or_o what_o conference_n shall_v on_o your_o part_n be_v think_v iniquous_a and_o unjust_a towards_o we_o when_o you_o shame_v not_o to_o extol_v that_o mock_n conference_n of_o westminster_n offer_n a_o fourefolde_v offer_n well_o because_o you_o challenge_v we_o to_o a_o disputation_n and_o be_v suffer_v to_o set_v it_o forth_o in_o print_n hear_v what_o i_o will_v say_v unto_o you_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n count_v you_o their_o subject_n as_o much_o as_o you_o count_v we_o the_o subject_n of_o england_n and_o the_o state_n there_o be_v of_o all_o catholic_a prince_n grant_v to_o be_v far_o preeminent_a do_v you_o therefore_o procure_v we_o a_o safeconduite_n from_o the_o court_n in_o such_o form_n as_o the_o council_n give_v it_o to_o you_o and_o certain_a of_o we_o will_v in_o the_o name_n of_o god_n come_v in_o be_v the_o danger_n to_o our_o life_n otherwise_o never_o so_o great_a and_o for_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n in_o the_o victory_n of_o his_o truth_n we_o will_v join_v with_o you_o in_o any_o conference_n that_o shall_v be_v prescribe_v according_a to_o the_o common_a law_n of_o a_o conference_n see_v in_o my_o xix_o demand_v which_o be_v of_o king_n what_o i_o say_v to_o this_o effect_n before_o i_o know_v of_o this_o your_o challenge_n see_v likewise_o of_o the_o same_o in_o my_o first_o demand_n which_o be_v of_o old_a conference_n at_o carthage_n betwixt_o the_o catholic_n and_o the_o donatist_n about_o the_o true_a church_n which_o the_o scripture_n commend_v unto_o we_o whereof_o i_o shall_v have_v occasion_n to_o say_v more_o in_o the_o ten_o chapter_n if_o to_o reject_v this_o offer_n the_o governor_n by_o your_o procurement_n or_o of_o their_o own_o mind_n will_v stand_v upon_o their_o point_n whereas_o we_o see_v the_o cause_n be_v god_n cause_n be_v content_v not_o to_o stand_v upon_o our_o life_n to_o save_v your_o soul_n and_o to_o redeem_v the_o unmerciful_a vexation_n and_o intolerable_a persecution_n of_o our_o brethren_n over_o all_o that_o realm_n who_o your_o bishop_n and_o other_o commissioner_n do_v oppose_v with_o heavy_a iron_n and_o boucher_n axe_n sore_a than_o you_o can_v oppose_v we_o or_o the_o learned_a of_o they_o with_o scripture_n do_v you_o sir_n at_o the_o least_o wise_a for_o your_o own_o credit_n sake_n take_v your_o pen_n in_o hand_n and_o join_v with_o i_o upon_o that_o same_o collatio_fw-la carthaginensis_n in_o such_o manner_n as_o i_o have_v brief_o require_v in_o my_o say_a first_o demand_n or_o if_o you_o dare_v not_o do_v that_o neither_o for_o all_o your_o crack_n three_o i_o require_v you_o to_o send_v to_o we_o some_o of_o your_o fellow_n or_o scholar_n such_o as_o will_v behave_v themselves_o quiet_o and_o modest_o other_o safeconduite_n they_o shall_v not_o need_v as_o diverse_a of_o your_o side_n have_v already_o at_o sundry_a time_n partly_o of_o their_o own_o head_n partly_o at_o their_o private_a friend_n motion_n come_v hither_o and_o find_v all_o safe_a
more_o plain_o in_o the_o sixth_o chapter_n but_o fulke_n repli_v to_o this_o and_o say_v whereas_o m._n allen_n allow_v all_o the_o interpretation_n that_o the_o father_n have_v make_v of_o the_o text_n 1._o cor._n 3._o by_o he_o allege_v as_o true_a so_o long_o as_o they_o affirm_v no_o error_n he_o may_v by_o the_o same_o reason_n affirm_v that_o contradictory_n be_v true_a as_o in_o that_o say_n mat._n 5._o of_o he_o that_o shall_v not_o come_v out_o until_o he_o have_v pay_v the_o uttermost_a farthing_n some_o have_v expound_v that_o he_o shall_v be_v always_o punish_v some_o that_o he_o shall_v not_o be_v always_o punish_v how_o be_v it_o possible_a that_o both_o these_o interpretation_n can_v be_v true_a marry_o thus_o it_o be_v true_a those_o he_o &_o he_o be_v not_o one_o he_n but_o he_o that_o shall_v be_v always_o punish_v be_v he_o that_o to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o way_n that_o be_v of_o this_o life_n agree_v not_o with_o his_o adversary_n who_o he_o have_v deadly_o injury_v as_o say_v unto_o he_o fatue_n and_o thereby_o incur_v the_o gilt_n of_o gehenna_n ignis_fw-la which_o be_v the_o prison_n of_o the_o damn_a he_o that_o shall_v not_o be_v always_o punish_v be_v he_o who_o injury_n be_v but_o venial_a 2._o cap._n 8._o par_fw-fr 3._o divi_z 2._o as_o racha_n and_o so_o both_o interpretation_n agree_v well_o not_o only_o together_o but_o also_o with_o the_o text_n itself_o as_o likewise_o in_o the_o last_o chapter_n i_o declare_v and_o so_o much_o of_o the_o doctor_n interpretation_n now_o to_o the_o other_o kind_n of_o their_o testimony_n which_o he_o allege_v against_o we_o about_o any_o of_o our_o controversy_n second_o whether_o the_o doctor_n geve_v any_o other_o kind_n of_o testimony_n against_o us._n j_o about_o the_o book_n of_o maccabee_n and_o first_o although_o it_o be_v but_o a_o by_o matter_n whether_o the_o maccabee_n be_v canonical_a scripture_n or_o no_o because_o the_o last_o thing_n that_o i_o entreat_v of_o be_v the_o scripture_n that_o be_v of_o purgatory_n and_o the_o protestant_n deny_v the_o machabée_n for_o this_o express_a say_v 2._o mac._n 12._o it_o be_v a_o holy_a and_o healthful_a meaning_n to_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a that_o they_o may_v be_v release_v of_o their_o sin_n and_o touch_v this_o matter_n he_o allege_v no_o doctor_n 214._o pur._n 214._o but_o only_o s._n hierome_n in_o two_o place_n the_o answer_n whereof_o d._n allen_n give_v before_o and_o that_o right_o and_o true_o as_o we_o shall_v well_o perceive_v if_o first_o we_o remember_v what_o he_o allege_v for_o the_o other_o part_n fulke_o brief_o both_o report_v it_o &_o also_o repli_v unto_o it_o in_o these_o word_n m._n allen_n pretend_v to_o prove_v the_o book_n of_o maccabee_n canonical_a by_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n 35_o see_v cap._n 11._o cozad_v 35_o when_o he_o can_v not_o by_o consent_n that_o it_o have_v with_o the_o scripture_n of_o god_n as_o though_o all_o book_n be_v canonical_a scripture_n which_o have_v consent_n with_o the_o scripture_n the_o machabée_n in_o deed_n have_v so_o as_o also_o innumerable_a book_n of_o catholic_a writer_n and_o caluin_n institution_n too_o i_o trow_v but_o the_o church_n authority_n and_o not_o such_o consent_n it_o be_v that_o prove_v they_o canonical_a macchabee_n the_o church_n authority_n for_o the_o macchabee_n and_o the_o church_n authority_n d._n allen_n bring_v out_o of_o the_o three_o carthage_n council_n which_o fulke_n in_o his_o answer_n say_v be_v a_o provincial_a council_n but_o he_o must_v remember_v that_o in_o the_o 4._o chapter_n to_o prove_v the_o whole_a true_a church_n to_o err_v he_o tell_v we_o that_o this_o provincial_a synod_n have_v the_o authority_n of_o a_o general_n council_n because_o it_o be_v confirm_v in_o the_o sixth_o general_n council_n hold_v at_o constantinople_n in_o trullo_n and_o therefore_o he_o can_v avoid_v it_o but_o that_o the_o machabée_n be_v canonical_a by_o authority_n of_o the_o whole_a true_a church_n and_o therefore_o in_o deed_n also_o canonical_a if_o any_o scripture_n at_o all_o and_o special_o such_o as_o be_v ever_o by_o any_o doubt_v of_o be_v canonical_a whether_o the_o true_a church_n may_v err_v or_o no._n and_o therefore_o again_o he_o do_v but_o labour_n in_o vain_a to_o show_v that_o the_o carthage_n council_n do_v err_v in_o that_o canon_n because_o it_o name_v among_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n also_o five_o book_n of_o solomon_n whereas_o the_o church_n say_v fulke_n as_o though_o he_o have_v not_o confess_v this_o council_n to_o be_v the_o church_n as_o much_o as_o any_o other_o allow_v but_o three_o namely_o the_o proverbe_n the_o preacher_n and_o the_o canticle_n not_o know_v what_o s._n augustine_n that_o be_v one_o of_o that_o council_n as_o fulke_n himself_o say_v write_v as_o it_o be_v of_o purpose_n to_o geve_v we_o the_o meaning_n of_o that_o council_n and_o of_o other_o likewise_o speak_v where_o he_o also_o recon_v up_o all_o the_o same_o canonical_a scripture_n as_o the_o council_n do_v 8._o au._n de_fw-fr doc_fw-fr christ_n lib._n 2._o cap._n 8._o and_o three_o book_n of_o solomon_n say_v he_o the_o proverbe_n the_o canticle_n of_o canticle_n and_o ecclesiastes_n for_o those_o two_o book_n the_o one_o entitle_v wisdom_n the_o other_o ecclesiasticus_fw-la de_fw-la quadam_fw-la similitudine_fw-la salomonis_fw-la esse_fw-la dicuntur_fw-la for_o a_o certain_a likeness_n be_v say_v to_o be_v s_z although_o in_o deed_n the_o be_v not_o he_o but_o ecclesiasticus_fw-la be_v jesus_n sirache_n and_o sapientia_fw-la be_v a_o incertain_a author_n 4._o aug._n retr_n li._n 2._o ca._n 4._o as_o s._n augustine_n partly_o in_o the_o same_o place_n partly_o in_o his_o retractation_n do_v say_v again_o say_v fulke_n 23_o pur._n 215.457_o aug._n con_v 2_o gaudentij_fw-la ep._n li._n 2._o c._n 23_o for_o a_o other_o answer_n to_o the_o carthage_n council_n in_o what_o sense_n they_o do_v call_v those_o book_n canonical_a appear_v by_o augustine_n that_o be_v one_o of_o that_o council_n and_o this_o scripture_n of_o the_o maccabee_n non_fw-la habent_fw-la judaei_n sicut_fw-la etc._n etc._n the_o jew_n count_n not_o as_o the_o law_n and_o the_o prophet_n and_o the_o psalm_n what_o then_o here_o you_o see_v say_v fulke_n that_o augustine_n howsoever_o he_o allow_v those_o book_n yet_o he_o allow_v they_o not_o in_o full_a authority_n with_o the_o law_n prophet_n and_o psalm_n that_o which_o s._n augustine_n report_v of_o the_o jew_n he_o ascribe_v to_o s._n augustine_n himself_o although_o also_o it_o follow_v in_o augustine_n immediate_o sed_fw-la recepta_fw-la est_fw-la ab_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la but_o it_o be_v receive_v of_o the_o church_n not_o unprofitable_o if_o it_o be_v sober_o read_v and_o hear_v which_o word_n also_o fulke_v there_o allege_v with_o this_o note_n that_o s._n augustine_n allow_v not_o these_o book_n 2._o if_o fulke_n be_v sober_a the_o maccabee_n be_v god_n word_n if_o he_o be_v not_o who_o fault_n be_v that_o 2._o peter_n 2._o without_o condition_n of_o sobriety_n in_o the_o reader_n or_o hearer_n as_o though_o he_o allow_v no_o book_n of_o scripture_n in_o full_a authority_n because_o both_o he_o &_o all_o other_o catholic_n with_o s._n péete_a do_v require_v the_o same_o condition_n in_o the_o reader_n of_o the_o whole_a scripture_n that_o he_o wrest_v they_o not_o like_o a_o mad_a man_n to_o his_o own_o damnation_n as_o all_o heretic_n do_v and_o as_o the_o donatist_n do_v count_v themselves_o martyr_n if_o they_o kill_v themselves_o and_o maintain_v it_o with_o the_o example_n of_o razias_n out_o of_o the_o machabée_n to_o which_o s._n augustine_n there_o answer_v he_o that_o will_v in_o deed_n know_v in_o what_o sense_n s._n augustine_n and_o his_o council_n call_v those_o book_n canonical_a let_v he_o consider_v that_o under_o one_o name_n of_o canonical_a they_o reckon_v at_o once_o these_o with_o all_o the_o other_o holy_a book_n of_o both_o testament_n 8._o au._n 2._o doc_fw-fr christ_n 8._o totus_fw-la canon_n scripturarum_fw-la he_o libris_fw-la continetur_fw-la the_o whole_a canon_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v contain_v in_o these_o book_n five_o of_o moses_n that_o be_v 47._o conc._n cart._n 3._o can._n 47._o genesis_n etc._n etc._n say_v s._n augustine_n and_o the_o council_n in_o like_a manner_n sunt_fw-la autem_fw-la canonicae_fw-la scripturae_fw-la and_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n be_v these_o genesis_n etc._n etc._n loe_o they_o call_v they_o all_o canonical_a in_o one_o and_o the_o same_o sense_n although_o s._n augustine_n there_o instruct_v the_o student_n of_o divinity_n while_o all_o be_v not_o yet_o general_o receive_v of_o the_o whole_a church_n to_o prefer_v some_o before_o other_o objection_n fulke_n objection_n read_v the_o chapter_n afore_o where_o s._n augustine_n require_v seven_o condition_n in_o the_o student_n of_o scripture_n before_o he_o be_v perfect_a
which_o you_o deny_v it_o follow_v which_o homoousion_n afterward_o in_o the_o council_n of_o atiminum_fw-la heretical_a impiety_n under_o the_o heretical_a emperor_n constantius_n endeavour_v to_o infirm_a but_o all_o in_o vain_a for_o soon_o after_o the_o liberty_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n prevai_v homoousion_n be_v defend_v universal_o then_o come_v the_o word_n that_o you_o allege_v sed_fw-la nunc_fw-la nec_fw-la ego_fw-la nicenun_n nec_fw-la tu_fw-la debes_fw-la ariminense_fw-la tanquam_fw-la praeiudicaturus_fw-la proffer_v concilium_fw-la but_o now_o in_o this_o disputation_n between_o we_o two_o be_v upon_o the_o matter_n itself_o in_o itself_o as_o it_o be_v to_o prejudicate_v neither_o must_v i_o allege_v the_o council_n of_o nice_a nor_o thou_o the_o council_n of_o ariminum_n for_o so_o that_o arrian_n bishop_n maximinus_n be_v both_o to_o encounter_v with_o s._n augustine_n upon_o the_o matter_n itself_o say_v in_o the_o very_a beginning_n of_o the_o disputation_n if_o thou_o demand_v my_o faith_n i_o hold_v that_o faith_n which_o at_o ariminum_n of_o three_o hundred_o and_o thirty_o bishop_n be_v not_o only_o notify_v but_o also_o by_o their_o subscription_n ratify_v principio_fw-la au._n contra_fw-la max._n li._n 1._o in_o principio_fw-la therefore_o s._n augustine_n say_v as_o before_o and_o further_o as_o follow_v nec_fw-la ego_fw-la huius_fw-la authoritate_fw-la nec_fw-la tu_fw-la illius_fw-la detineris_fw-la neither_o do_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o one_o hold_v i_o nor_o of_o the_o other_o hold_v thou_o where_o your_o false_a translation_n make_v he_o to_o say_v that_o the_o arrian_n be_v not_o bind_v to_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o nicene_n council_n contrary_a to_o that_o which_o he_o say_v afore_o call_v it_o veritatem_fw-la authoritatis_fw-la the_o truth_n of_o authority_n therefore_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o it_o as_o you_o also_o now_o be_v bind_v to_o the_o tridentine_a council_n but_o they_o will_v not_o be_v hold_v within_o their_o 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in_o the_o like_a case_n say_v to_o you_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n also_o not_o refuse_v to_o answer_v all_o that_o you_o can_v allege_v be_v it_o scripture_n be_v it_o council_n or_o whatsoever_o else_o as_o in_o this_o book_n you_o find_v nor_o require_v you_o to_o answer_v any_o private_a witness_n but_o only_o common_a consider_v that_o not_o we_o only_a but_o you_o also_o whatsoever_o you_o say_v of_o only_a scripture_n do_v make_v claim_n for_o all_o that_o and_o appeal_v to_o the_o first_o 600._o year_n namely_o your_o jewel_n in_o those_o two_o goticall_a sermon_n of_o his_o at_o paul_n cross_n anno_fw-la 1560._o the_o other_o place_n also_o that_o you_o allege_v out_o of_o augustine_n for_o this_o general_a part_n be_v but_o particular_a and_o concern_v no_o more_o but_o that_o one_o question_n of_o the_o church_n whereof_o your_o second_o part_n be_v as_o this_o former_a place_n concern_v no_o more_o but_o the_o question_n of_o the_o trinity_n and_o therefore_o your_o probation_n be_v not_o so_o large_a as_o your_o affirmation_n where_o you_o say_v that_o although_o augustine_n prove_v against_o the_o pelagian_o by_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o church_n 349._o pur._n 349._o yet_o he_o do_v not_o mean_a to_o defend_v that_o whatsoever_o the_o visible_a church_n receive_v be_v true_a and_o therefore_o all_o other_o persuasion_n set_v aside_o he_o provoke_v only_o to_o the_o scripture_n to_o try_v the_o faith_n &_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n how_o true_a that_o be_v appear_v by_o the_o very_a same_o book_n de_fw-fr unitate_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la out_o of_o which_o you_o go_v about_o to_o show_v such_o provoke_a of_o his_o for_o there_o when_o he_o have_v prove_v against_o the_o donatist_n the_o church_n to_o be_v his_o he_o say_v express_o that_o to_o be_v enough_o also_o for_o all_o other_o question_n 18.19_o aug._n de_fw-fr unitate_fw-la eccl._n cap._n 18.19_o sufficit_fw-la nobis_fw-la etc._n etc._n it_o be_v enough_o for_o we_o that_o we_o have_v that_o church_n which_o be_v point_v to_o by_o most_o manifest_a testimony_n of_o the_o holy_a and_o canonical_a scripture_n and_o touch_v the_o very_a question_n itself_o of_o the_o church_n again_o what_o do_v you_o allege_v out_o of_o he_o what_o you_o gather_v of_o his_o say_n i_o see_v 13.14_o ar._n 13.14_o for_o you_o say_v by_o this_o augustine_n declare_v first_o that_o heretic_n must_v be_v confute_v only_o by_o the_o scripture_n and_o second_o that_o neither_o counsel_n succession_n of_o bishop_n universality_n miracle_n vision_n dream_n nor_o revelation_n be_v the_o note_n to_o try_v the_o catholic_a church_n but_o only_o the_o scripture_n so_o you_o gather_v but_o he_o say_v not_o so_o 16._o au._n de_fw-fr uni_fw-la eccl._n ca._n 16._o removeantur_fw-la omnes_fw-la moratoriae_fw-la tergiversationes_fw-la say_v he_o away_o with_o all_o dilatory_a drawinge_n back_o such_o as_o be_v quicquid_fw-la de_fw-la peccatis_fw-la hominum_fw-la obijcitur_fw-la all_o that_o the_o donatist_n bishop_n object_v of_o certain_a man_n crime_n also_o when_o he_o say_v for_o his_o church_n verum_fw-la est_fw-la quia_fw-la hoc_fw-la ego_fw-la dico_fw-la it_o be_v true_a because_o i_o say_v this_o or_o because_o this_o say_v that_o felowbishop_n or_o those_o felowbishop_n of_o i_o or_o those_o bishop_n in_o their_o counsel_n or_o clerk_n or_o lay_v of_o we_o aut_fw-la ideo_fw-la verum_fw-la est_fw-la or_o therefore_o it_o be_v true_a because_o such_o and_o such_o marvel_n do_v donatus_n who_o be_v as_o it_o be_v their_o luther_n or_o pontius_n as_o it_o be_v their_o caluine_n or_o any_o other_o or_o because_o man_n do_v pray_v at_o the_o memory_n of_o our_o depart_a &_o be_v hard_a or_o because_o this_o and_o that_o there_o do_v happen_v or_o because_o such_o a_o brother_n of_o we_o or_o such_o a_o sister_n of_o we_o see_v such_o a_o vision_n waling_n or_o dream_v such_o a_o dream_n sleep_v removeantur_fw-la ista_fw-la away_o with_o these_o dilatory_n and_o let_v they_o show_v their_o church_n in_o the_o canonical_a authority_n of_o the_o holy_a book_n nec_fw-la â—ta_fw-la ut_fw-la ea_fw-la colligant_fw-la etc._n etc._n neither_o so_o as_o to_o gather_v &_o rehearse_v those_o place_n which_o be_v obscure_a or_o ambiguous_a or_o figurative_a that_o every_o man_n may_v interpret_v they_o as_o he_o listen_v after_o his_o own_o sense_n but_o bring_v you_o forth_o some_o place_n so_o manifest_a that_o it_o need_v no_o interpreter_n 333._o ar._n 13._o pur._n 333._o because_o neither_o we_o do_v say_v that_o man_n ought_v to_o believe_v we_o that_o we_o be_v in_o the_o church_n for_o that_o that_o the_o church_n which_o we_o hold_v have_v be_v commend_v by_o optatus_n of_o milevis_n or_o by_o ambrose_n of_o milayne_n as_o now_o by_o fisher_n of_o rochester_n or_o hosius_n of_o warmes_n or_o by_o other_o innumerable_a bishop_n of_o our_o communion_n or_o because_o she_o have_v be_v set_v forth_o by_o council_n of_o our_o fellowbishopp_n for_o these_o be_v private_a to_o s._n augustine_n side_n as_o those_o other_o bishopp_n and_o council_n be_v private_a to_o the_o donatistes_n side_n so_o be_v they_o not_o now_o but_o both_o side_n we_o and_o you_o do_v claim_v they_o and_o therefore_o now_o better_a cause_n to_o allege_v they_o even_o also_o in_o the_o question_n of_o the_o church_n than_o be_v in_o s._n augustine_n time_n how_o be_v it_o then_o also_o he_o may_v well_o have_v allege_v they_o although_o in_o that_o book_n he_o do_v not_o and_o say_v he_o do_v not_o for_o in_o they_o be_v veritas_fw-la authoritatis_fw-la truth_n of_o authority_n as_o here_o above_o pag._n 179._o he_o say_v to_o the_o arrian_n and_o no_o less_o also_o to_o the_o donatist_n it_o follow_v on_o further_o as_o you_o also_o allege_v aut_fw-la quia_fw-la per_fw-la totum_fw-la orbem_fw-la vision_n moracle_n and_o vision_n or_o because_o over_o all_o the_o world_n in_o the_o holy_a place_n that_o our_o communion_n do_v frequent_a so_o great_a miracle_n partly_o of_o
24._o but_o keep_v still_o in_o the_o visible_a everlasting_a church_n that_o visible_o come_v of_o i_o begin_v at_o jerusalem_n 4._o rise_v after_o 11._o motive_n 19_o article_n 11._o four_o i_o require_v they_o to_o show_v any_o beginning_n of_o our_o church_n other_o than_o the_o beginning_n of_o christ_n church_n at_o jerusalem_n act._n 2._o as_o we_o show_v and_o the_o world_n see_v the_o beginning_n of_o their_o company_n now_o of_o late_a by_o luther_n who_o afore_o be_v one_o of_o we_o nor_o he_o only_o but_o all_o that_o he_o draw_v away_o after_o he_o so_o that_o no_o man_n can_v say_v they_o be_v afore_o that_o invisible_a protestant_n because_o it_o be_v so_o evident_a that_o they_o be_v visible_a papist_n and_o to_o these_o two_o or_o either_o of_o they_o fulke_n answer_v nothing_o i_o require_v they_o moreover_o in_o the_o same_o demand_n to_o show_v so_o much_o as_o any_o first_o beginner_n of_o any_o one_o article_n of_o our_o doctrine_n so_o as_o he_o receive_v it_o not_o at_o the_o hand_n of_o his_o predecessor_n and_o they_o of_o they_o and_o so_o forth_o even_o up_o to_o the_o apostle_n as_o we_o show_v that_o luther_n begin_v his_o new_a article_n of_o himself_o and_o receive_v they_o not_o at_o any_o man_n hand_n and_o also_o if_o any_o of_o the_o same_o article_n have_v in_o old_a time_n any_o patron_n as_o aerius_n against_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a that_o he_o likewise_o in_o his_o time_n be_v the_o first_o beginner_n of_o it_o and_o receive_v it_o not_o of_o his_o elder_n but_o that_o his_o elder_n hold_v the_o contrary_a of_o his_o article_n so_o that_o his_o article_n evident_o be_v of_o himself_o and_o not_o of_o the_o apostle_n differ_v how_o this_o iiij_o and_o xxxviij_o demand_n do_v differ_v i_o do_v not_o here_o charge_v they_o with_o such_o article_n as_o they_o be_v of_o the_o church_n then_o condemn_v for_o heresy_n for_o that_o be_v enough_o of_o itself_o against_o they_o whether_o they_o be_v then_o first_o begone_v or_o afore_o and_o therefore_o i_o have_v of_o that_o a_o several_a demand_n num_fw-la 38._o but_o as_o they_o be_v then_o first_o begin_v which_o of_o itself_o be_v enough_o to_o show_v that_o they_o be_v not_o receive_v from_o the_o apostle_n whether_o they_o be_v condemn_v of_o the_o church_n then_o for_o heresy_n or_o no._n now_o of_o these_o matter_n there_o be_v two_o long_a treatise_n between_o d._n allen_n and_o fulke_n first_o in_o the_o book_n of_o article_n art_n 11._o pag._n 35._o to_o 47._o second_o in_o the_o book_n of_o purgatory_n lib._n 2._o ca._n 13._o and_o 14._o pag._n 387._o to_o 424._o in_o which_o place_n the_o old_a heresy_n that_o they_o charge_v one_o another_o withal_o i_o reserve_v to_o their_o proper_a place_n in_o the_o demand_n aforesaid_a as_o also_o the_o change_n that_o he_o say_v some_o pope_n to_o have_v make_v to_o the_o 45._o demand_n what_o then_o belong_v to_o this_o demand_n first_o touch_v the_o argument_n or_o consequence_n second_o touch_v the_o 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to_o disprove_v the_o possession_n or_o the_o evidence_n of_o the_o heir_n nor_o to_o bring_v as_o evidence_n for_o yourself_o as_o by_o my_o answer_n in_o the_o chapter_n aforego_v it_o be_v most_o manifest_a 388._o pur._n 388._o again_o you_o say_v the_o first_o author_n of_o every_o heresy_n can_v not_o be_v name_v where_o you_o reckon_v ten_o and_o say_v these_o and_o a_o hundred_o more_o heresy_n shall_v they_o be_v think_v to_o have_v their_o heresy_n from_o tradition_n of_o the_o apostle_n if_o the_o first_o author_n of_o they_o can_v not_o be_v name_v for_o example_n there_o be_v one_o heresy_n of_o they_o that_o be_v call_v acephali_n because_o there_o be_v no_o head_n know_v of_o they_o where_o have_v you_o that_o cause_n i_o 27._o nicenun_n 2._o con_v pa._n 62._o tomo_fw-la 3_o nicep_v li._n 16_o ca._n 27._o find_v that_o severus_n b._n of_o antioch_n be_v their_o head_n who_o name_n be_v severus_n acephalus_fw-la and_o again_o that_o they_o be_v but_o a_o piece_n of_o the_o 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so_o i_o be_o now_o come_v to_o your_o second_o answer_n wherein_o you_o deny_v our_o antecedent_n for_o you_o say_v 402.413_o pur._n 402.413_o if_o any_o man_n or_o man_n be_v the_o author_n of_o our_o faith_n as_o it_o fare_v with_o the_o popish_a faith_n we_o shall_v be_v injurious_a unto_o they_o if_o we_o do_v not_o acknowledge_v our_o founder_n as_o they_o do_v some_o of_o they_o tute_fw-la lepus_fw-la es_fw-la &_o pulpamentum_fw-la quaeris_fw-la you_o make_v d._n allen_n to_o be_v that_o same_o non_fw-fr plus_fw-fr of_o cambridge_n 64._o pur._n 64._o who_o when_o he_o lack_v a_o argument_n say_v he_o will_v dispute_v ex_fw-la concessis_fw-la you_o be_v he_o even_o yourself_o do_v we_o acknowledge_v any_o founder_n of_o our_o faith_n but_o the_o apostle_n of_o christ_n 47._o ar._n 47._o again_o you_o say_v thus_o we_o have_v note_v to_o you_o the_o name_n of_o diverse_a heretic_n which_o first_o preach_v certain_a article_n of_o your_o doctrine_n those_o note_n you_o mean_v wherewith_o you_o note_v here_o cap._n 3._o pag._n 24._o the_o confess_v true_a church_n aswell_o as_o we_o which_o i_o have_v clean_o wipe_v out_o cap._n 6._o pag._n 57.58_o and_o will_v wipe_v away_o the_o rest_n likewise_o here_o in_o the_o 38._o demand_n 389._o ar._n 39_o pur._n 389._o again_o for_o the_o first_o beginning_n of_o one_o particular_a you_o say_v it_o can_v not_o be_v prove_v out_o of_o any_o authentical_a writer_n or_o by_o any_o credible_a author_n that_o any_o before_o tertullian_n who_o be_v almost_o two_o hundred_o year_n after_o the_o incarnation_n of_o christ_n either_o name_v or_o allow_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a or_o that_o it_o be_v use_v in_o the_o church_n tertullian_n himself_o flourish_v
a_o sacrifice_n or_o no_o and_o how_o it_o be_v or_o be_v not_o we_o need_n not_o stand_v here_o about_o it_o as_o also_o because_o he_o do_v not_o say_v that_o no_o sacrifice_n ought_v to_o be_v offer_v to_o martyr_n as_o you_o pretend_v but_o he_o speak_v of_o external_a sacrifice_n the_o definition_n whereof_o you_o may_v conceive_v by_o that_o little_a which_o i_o say_v cap._n 6._o pag._n 49._o and_o of_o one_o certain_a external_a sacrifice_n we_o offer_v the_o sacrifice_n to_o the_o one_o god_n saint_n aug._n de_fw-fr ci_fw-fr li._n 8._o ca._n 27._o that_o prayer_n to_o saint_n be_v not_o a_o sacrifice_n to_o saint_n who_o be_v both_o the_o martyr_n god_n &_o we_o at_o which_o sacrifice_n they_o be_v name_v in_o their_o place_n and_o order_n in_o so_o much_o that_o by_o this_o one_o sacrifice_n he_o answer_v the_o pagan_n touch_v certain_a dish_n of_o meat_n bring_v by_o some_o christian_o to_o the_o martyr_n church_n even_o as_o i_o answer_v you_o touch_v prayer_n make_v to_o they_o non_fw-la autem_fw-la ista_fw-la esse_fw-la etc._n etc._n but_o that_o these_o be_v not_o sacrifice_n to_o the_o martyr_n he_o know_v that_o know_v the_o one_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o christian_n which_o be_v there_o offer_v to_o god_n those_o christian_n do_v mean_v no_o more_o but_o to_o have_v they_o there_o sanctify_v by_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o martyr_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o lord_n of_o the_o martyr_n let_v the_o three_o example_n be_v of_o ceremony_n general_o such_o as_o he_o confess_v here_o cap._n 3._o pag._n 15._o to_o have_v be_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n also_o and_o two_o objection_n of_o his_o against_o they_o i_o have_v answer_v cap._n 6._o pag._n 45._o but_o now_o he_o will_v reprove_v they_o out_o of_o scripture_n also_o &_o first_o by_o his_o usual_a argument_n ab_fw-la authoritate_fw-la negative_a 19_o ar._n 19_o because_o they_o be_v destitute_a of_o god_n his_o word_n which_o only_o be_v able_a to_o give_v they_o strength_n and_o estimation_n and_o yet_o in_o other_o place_n clean_o contrary_a not_o only_a scripture_n but_o also_o example_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n be_v sufficient_a for_o they_o as_o where_o he_o say_v 21.42_o ar._n 21.42_o if_o any_o thing_n be_v allow_v without_o controversy_n on_o both_o side_n it_o do_v either_o proceed_v from_o the_o scripture_n of_o god_n or_o from_o the_o primitive_a church_n 2._o ar._n 48._o just_a apol._n 2._o or_o else_o it_o be_v a_o thing_n mere_o indifferent_a and_o to_o this_o purpose_n he_o cit_v justinus_n martyr_n who_o declare_v plain_o he_o say_v what_o order_n of_o service_n and_o ministration_n of_o sacrament_n our_o church_n use_v before_o papistry_n prevail_v as_o though_o the_o book_n or_o book_n of_o service_n be_v no_o more_o than_o these_o few_o line_n in_o justinus_n and_o yet_o also_o to_o see_v the_o blindness_n of_o this_o man_n so_o little_a as_o he_o bring_v out_o of_o that_o martyr_n yet_o be_v there_o plain_a against_o his_o communion_n book_n water_n mingle_v with_o wine_n but_o no_o one_o word_n against_o the_o mass_n book_n yea_o it_o be_v the_o very_a sum_n of_o the_o mass_n unless_o you_o be_v so_o foolish_a to_o think_v that_o the_o bishop_n sermon_n the_o receive_v of_o all_o present_a the_o carry_v of_o it_o to_o they_o that_o be_v absent_a and_o the_o rich_a man_n offering_n may_v not_o be_v omit_v in_o any_o mass_n nor_o for_o any_o cause_n now_o let_v we_o here_o against_o ceremony_n 19_o ar._n 19_o your_o authority_n of_o scripture_n affirmative_o we_o detest_v and_o abhor_v all_o your_o beggarly_a ceremony_n which_o you_o count_v holy_a and_o solemn_a observation_n for_o we_o know_v that_o god_n be_v not_o to_o be_v worship_v with_o such_o thing_n but_o that_o the_o true_a worshipper_n must_v worship_v he_o in_o spirit_n and_o verity_n joa._n 4._o then_o belike_o you_o detest_v all_o ceremony_n and_o all_o outward_a thing_n those_o also_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n yea_o and_o of_o the_o scripture_n itself_o which_o erewhile_o you_o allow_v you_o see_v this_o reply_n and_o therefore_o in_o another_o place_n you_o will_v moderate_v the_o matter_n say_v the_o service_n of_o god_n have_v small_a need_n of_o furniture_n 51._o ar._n 51._o in_o outward_a thing_n for_o god_n be_v a_o spirit_n be_v not_o worship_v with_o outward_a pomp_n but_o with_o spiritual_a and_o inward_a reverence_n and_o as_o for_o other_o furniture_n that_o be_v necessary_a be_v decree_v to_o the_o church_n by_o the_o emperor_n constantine_n and_o his_o successor_n notwithstanding_o the_o church_n be_v in_o better_a case_n before_o such_o furniture_n be_v grant_v then_o since_o like_o one_o that_o will_v not_o hold_v his_o peace_n and_o yet_o can_v tell_v what_o to_o say_v if_o god_n be_v a_o spirit_n admit_v some_o outward_a furniture_n well_o enough_o then_o have_v you_o missense_v that_o text_n the_o meaning_n be_v that_o outward_a thing_n without_o the_o inward_a man_n please_v not_o god_n but_o for_o all_o that_o the_o inward_a man_n may_v use_v outward_a gesture_n outward_a word_n and_o other_o outward_a thing_n as_o christ_n himself_o his_o apostle_n and_o all_o the_o church_n ever_o do_v for_o so_o to_o do_v be_v to_o adore_v god_n who_o be_v a_o spirit_n in_o spirit_n &_o truth_n and_o touch_v the_o other_o text_n that_o you_o allege_v not_o but_o allude_v unto_o those_o weak_a &_o beggarly_a element_n gal._n 4._o be_v the_o ceremony_n of_o the_o old_a law_n special_o after_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n who_o they_o shadow_v and_o much_o more_o the_o galathian_o be_v gentile_n to_o who_o they_o never_o parteyn_v and_o you_o wrest_v it_o against_o the_o ceremony_n that_o be_v use_v in_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o gracious_a sacrament_n of_o christ_n and_o that_o by_o the_o order_n of_o they_o that_o can_v say_v visum_fw-la est_fw-la spiritui_fw-la sancto_fw-la &_o nobis_fw-la 15._o act._n 15._o it_o have_v seem_v good_a to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o to_o us._n like_o as_o against_o the_o lesson_n response_n versicles_n and_o such_o other_o distinction_n or_o variety_n in_o the_o service_n you_o allege_v matth._n 15._o 20._o ar._n 20._o in_o vain_a do_v they_o worship_v i_o teach_v for_o doctrine_n the_o precept_n of_o man_n such_o be_v your_o ignorance_n in_o the_o scripture_n by_o reason_n of_o your_o malice_n the_o precept_n of_o man_n be_v those_o which_o be_v of_o man_n and_o not_o of_o god_n as_o those_o tradition_n of_o the_o two_o late_a elder_n hilleb_n &_o sammai_n be_v partly_o frivolous_a as_o those_o vain_a lotion_n partly_o also_o contrary_a to_o god_n commandment_n as_o that_o of_o corban_n 1._o tit._n 1._o whereupon_o s._n paul_n bid_v titus_n to_o be_v earnest_n wiâ—h_v the_o cretensian_o that_o they_o listen_v not_o to_o judaical_a fable_n &_o mandatis_fw-la hominum_fw-la and_o to_o the_o precept_n of_o man_n that_o turn_v away_o from_o the_o truth_n whereupon_o the_o invention_n also_o of_o luther_n caluine_n and_o all_o other_o heretic_n be_v the_o precept_n of_o man_n and_o their_o follower_n worship_v they_o know_v not_o what_o joan._n 4._o 21._o pur._n 21._o and_o if_o they_o be_v also_o zealous_a it_o be_v without_o knowledge_n rom._n 10._o but_o so_o be_v not_o likewise_o the_o precept_n of_o they_o to_o who_o our_o saviour_n say_v he_o that_o hear_v you_o hear_v i_o and_o he_o that_o despise_v you_o 10._o luc._n 10._o despise_v i_o and_o therefore_o s._n paul_n command_v they_o of_o syria_n and_o cilicia_n 15.16_o act._n 15.16_o to_o keep_v the_o precept_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o priest_n that_o be_v decree_v in_o the_o council_n of_o jerusalem_n s._n augustine_n likewise_o here_o cap._n 6._o pag._n 45._o embrace_v the_o ceremony_n decree_v in_o counsel_n of_o bishop_n and_o much_o more_o they_o that_o be_v use_v throughout_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o you_o falsify_v the_o council_n of_o laodicia_n when_o you_o say_v it_o decree_v 59_o conc._n lao_n ca._n 59_o that_o nothing_o shall_v be_v song_n or_o read_v in_o the_o church_n but_o the_o canonical_a book_n of_o holy_a scripture_n no_o sir_n that_o do_v rather_o your_o friend_n paulus_n samosatenus_fw-la who_o reject_v the_o psalm_n and_o song_n which_o to_o the_o honour_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n 24._o eus_n li._n 7._o c._n 24._o decantari_fw-la solent_fw-la be_v wont_a to_o be_v song_n say_v eusebius_n tanquam_fw-la recentiores_fw-la as_o be_v but_o late_o make_v and_o set_v out_o by_o man_n of_o late_a memory_n renew_v the_o heresy_n of_o artemon_n against_o the_o godhead_n of_o christ_n the_o which_o a_o certain_a catholic_a do_v there_o confute_v long_o afore_o ex_fw-la hymnis_fw-la a_o fidelibus_fw-la fratribus_fw-la antiquitus_fw-la perscriptis_fw-la concentu_fw-la quodam_fw-la 27._o eus_n li._n 5._o c._n 27._o by_o the_o hymn_n make_v of_o old_a in_o meet_a by_o faithful_a brethren_n he_o