and dissolute quallity onely moued thereto in a lazy speculation layd wicked sacrilegious hands on the Lords ark taken his vndefiled testimonies in their defiled mouthes disgraced defaced and defamed the glory and Maiesty of diâ—ine rites and mysteries c. they run like hungry companions with an eye onely to the flesh pots so sel both themselues and their people for morsel of bread and messe of pottage to the Diuill He mentioneth also accursed and simonical patrons who haue sodered simoned the walls of their houses with the very blood of sowlâ—s some others among you speaking of that a miserable vulgus that woâ—fulâ— crew that racked regiment of dunsticall and vnlettered Sir Iohns which haue euen couered the land like the froggs of Aegypt leading many thow sands with themselues into the ditch and â—he same not still graced countenanced by the Prelatâ—s as being their creatures And others complayn that whol swarms of idle scandalous popish non-resident Ministers are tolerated euery where amongst you Your selfe Mr Crashawe in this very sermon tel in of little petty Babylons namely incurable sinns among you 1. That great sacrilege and church robbing as you call it committed by Impropriations in which case you affirme at this day almost halfe of the kingdome is wherby it comes to passe that an ignorant and vnpreaching ministery is set ouer a great part of your people which is the sourse and fountayn of all other euils in your church 2. The vngodly players enterludes so rise in the nations which you call a bellish deuise the Diuils own recreation to mock at holy things by him deliuered to the heathen from them to the Papists and from them to you And these you say bring religion and holy things vpon the stage And hypocrisie a child of hel must bear the names of two churches of God Nicholas S. Antlings Simon S. Maryâ—veries which churches by these miscreanâ—s are thus dishonoured you say not on the stage onely but euen in print To this you add â—heir continuall profannesse on their phrases and sometime Atheisme and blasphemy their continuall profanening of the Sabbath which generally in the country is their play day and oftentimes Gods diuine seruice hindred or cut shorter to make room and giue time for the Diuils seruice Many other like testimonies might I allege froÌ„ your own mouthes of exceeding impiety openly practised not by the people onely but by the Priests and Clergie and how doth your discipline heal these corruptions when by your own grant such caitiffs are graced and countenanced by the prelates when your law punisheth the conscionable ministers more then such as your selfe say of your petty Babilon of Impropriations this deep wound was once curable yenough c. but now alas how incurable it is he obserues but little that sees not And vnlesse the K. Maiesty vouchsafe to take the matter into his hands otherweise it is incurable Agayn you say of that horible abuse of the Sabbath c. that est is hath been complayned of and some haue endeuoured to heal it but it is 〈◊〉 of Babylon that will not be healed but rather it creps 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉 though the whole state from the foot to the head and if you would yet haue more add herevnto Mr Iacobs testimony who hath so manfully stood for your church The right and true discipline ecclesiasticall sayth he in â—ch proper visible church is one mayn part of the ordinary meanes of saluation appoynted by God for euery sowl and this we in England vtterly want Now let the reader iudge whether there be not deadly corruption in your discipline which euen in a true church would soon eat out if it wer not healed the hart and life and being of a church according to your demaund But you proceed and ask vs. Q. What book of Canonicall scripture receiue we not what hold we for Canonicall that is not A. What book of Canonicall scripture receiued not the idolatrous Isâ—elites what held they for Canonicall that was not The like I ask for the Arians Anabaptists and sundry other heretikes of these times and shall these or any of them be therfore true churches Agayn in your own church there is read for holy scripture erroneous books and lying stories as Tobie Iudith and other Apocrypha Your Homilies citing thâ—Ì„ call them holy scripture and say the holy Ghost speaketh so in the scriptures the chiefest ministers of your church sometimes preach and take texts out of them If this be not to hold them canonicall I know not what you count canonicall Q. What sacrament that Christ ordeyned doe we want and what haue we more then Christ ordeyned A. What sacrament wanted Ieroboam the son of Nebat what had he more then God ordeyned Or the Anabaptists at this day Yet if one would stand with you he might by your Communion book proue Confirmation to be a sacrament but who ordeyned it I cannot tel vnlesse Pope Clement Agayn Mr Bradshaw a man of your own church and profession hath proued against you in print that your Crosse in baptisme ring in mariage surplice c. are sacraments in your church and not of diuine institution Q. What article of faith deny we or what hold we for an article of faith this is not A. Suppose that the Papists should ask you such a question what would you answer For all the Creeds that are in your communion book are they not with euery article neyther more nor lesse in the masse book and other popish pamphlets The Papists and you both confesse Christ in words both deny him in practise Q. What fundamentall heresie doth our doctrine maintayn A. The vnlawfull commixture of the children of God and children of the Diuell in one church and communion is a fundamentall heresie being stifly mainteyned All the scritures condemne it all wel reformed churches avoyd it nature it selfe teacheth to abhorr it yet in such profane communion your church abiderh and you wil not endure to bâ—â—r of a separation Q. What haue we in our church that ouerthrowes the being of a church A. A popish Clergie and Laitie Q. What is necessarily required to make a church that wee doe want A. You want both matter and forme of a true church namely a people called of God separated from the world and vnited with Christ and one with another according to the rules of his eternall Testament Q. I will end as I began wherein are we deadly and incurably wounded A. The sinns before mentioned are deadly wounds of Satan the onely cure is by repentance and faith in Christ Iesus â—ut as yet you be farr from cure for loe you make questions of your diseases and will not beleeue that you are sick Herevpon you refusâ— all salues and medicines and will neither haue physician nor chirurgian to meddle with your sores If any Leech come with a curing tongâ—e and words that be leaues of the tree of
church because a great part of his word and scriptures and of the graces of his spirit are here neuer spoken nor heard nor suffred to be vttered and contrariweise much of mans word and writing is brought in as Aprocrypha books made of old the Seruice and homily books made of late in which also there be manifest errourâ— lâ—es contradictions to the holy scriptures idolatrous and and superstâ—tious doctrines rites ceremonses c. taught vnto and obserued by th' priests people an idle soul-murthering ministry maynteyned Chrâ—sts spirituall graces giuen for teaching and building vp his church quenched with other like evils The proof of this may be seen in their communioÌ„ book whose Kalender alotteth what is to be read dayly and yerely in all their Assemblies where many chapters of the Bible are wholly and perpetually excluded many Apocrypha chapters read as holy scriptures And by the written homilies the graces and vtterance of Gods spirit are extinguished that mans erroneus writing may come in place Besides this all preaching Ministers so limitted and restreyned in their doctrine that they may not preach against any sinn by publick authority establâ—shed and if they doe they are silenced excommunicated c. this indignity and dishonour Christ will not suffer at mans hands to haue his word and mans word matched together his spirit spirit truth restreyned he wil be Prophet aloÌ„e or not at al. as they that with the trâ—e God and his true worship had other Gods also other worships are sayd in scripture to forsake the true God and to bâ— without him so they that with the true Prophet and doctor Christ and his doctrine haue other also may rightly be sayd to haue forsaken him and to be wâ—thout him For when men set their thresholds by the Lords and their posts by his they defile his holy name with their abominations and in vayne they worship him that teach such doctrines as be precepts of men Moreover thiâ— Church wanteth part and communion with Christ in that propheticall office which he hath imparted to his peoâ—le namely power and freedom to witnes professe practise and hold forth the word of life and all that Christ hath commanded to admonish reproue one another for sinne and transgression and eyther if they repent to forgiue them or if they repent not to follow them further vnto the church and even to excommunication for their obstinate violating Gods law That they haue not power or freedome to professe and practise the truth of the Gospel in these things appeareth by their seruile subiection to the hierarchie lawes and canons which are amongst them whereby they are restreyned from professing and practising any further truth then is by law establâ—shed among them but must obey follow all that their spirituall Lords the Bishops doe inioyne them and may not speake against or reproue any of the abominatioÌ„s that ar in their church worship Ministery ceremonies c. neyther haue power to deal according to that rule of Christ Mat. 18 15. c for any sinne be it never so horrible and manifest but must leaue it to the censure of the Prelate or hiâ— Commissarie who at his pleasure buyeth and selleth the sins and soules of men This bondage the people should not be in if they had and inioyned the word of God which is the truth for that truth would make them free that they should not in this sort be seruants of men But now not haâ—ing power to professe much lesse to practise the truth nor to reproue the euils that reign among them not hauing the free vse of Gods word in priuate nor the right and lawfull Ministery or vse therof in publick they cannot be sayd to haue Christ for their Prophet and Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of God EVery true Church of God hath Christ for the Priest and Sacrificer of the sâ—me for he onely is the high Priest of our profession and to him it was sworne thou art a Priest for euer after the order of Melchisedek Heb 3 1 5.5 6 10 9 11. c. But the Church of England hath not Christ for the Priest or sacrificer of the sâ—me Because the gifts and sacrifices which it offreth vnto God are not presented and offred vnto him by Christ neyther is this church reconciled reconciled vnto God by him And first the worship and seruice which they performe vnto God their prayers prayses and confeâ—sions which now are Christâ—an mens sacrifices are not offred and sanctified by Christ because they are false and idâ—lâ—trous wherewith Christ hath no communion For â—nstead of true spirâ—tuall prayer and prayses the fruits of Gods spirit in his â—eoâ—le they read a written leiturgie translated out of the Masse book and accordâ—ng as they are stinted in the same they speak obserâ—ing also the many Popish ordinances râ—tes and ceremonies commanded in the same as their holy and festivall dayes holy eues and fasting dâ—yes absolutioÌ„ of sinns by their priests confirmatioÌ„ of Baptisme by theâ—r Prelates profanation of the Sacraments by priâ—ate administration and howsling with them by gossips by idolatrous signes and gestures of croâ—â—e kneeling c. also marying by the Priest with signe of the ring churching of womeÌ„ burial of the dead readâ—ng curses or comminations in stead of discipline besides the sundry errours and vntruthes in that book vayn repetâ—tions in their prayers and the like All which being commanded and vsed dayly by law of their church without ground from Gods word which approueth none of these idolatries but condemneth them are not sanctified by Christ nor presented vnto God hiâ— Father For he will not offer the idol sacrifices neyther will God accept such things as by his law he teacheth all men to abhorr Secondly whereas the bodyes and sowles of men are also spiritual and liâ—ing sacrifices and the persons offred in the Church by the Ministeâ—y of the Gospel should be as the holy flâ—ck as the flock of Ierusalem in their solemne feasts that so the oblation of them might be acceptable being sanctified by the holy Ghost the people offred in this church are a confuse vnsanctified mâ—ltitude not separated from the world as before in the first argument is shewed and many of them so wicked even by the confeâ—sion of their own ministers and in every honest mans conscience as they neyther deseru to be layd on Gods alter nor to be touched of any true Israelite in such respect Yet ar they by the Priests of this church offred dayly vnto God in their administration and blessed in his name Yea the precious sacrifice of the body and blood of Christ remembred and reâ—resented by bread and wine at his supper is prostitutâ—â— as if it were an vnholy thing to the prophane and wicked in this church which being vnworthy receiuers are
no Bishops then doth it follow most euidently that all the English Bishops be no Bishops at al as hauing no other coÌ„secratioÌ„ then from them And if our English Prelates be no true Bishops then surely nâ—yther be they Priâ—sts or Minisâ—ers or Deacons that be ordeyned by them and so consequently the congregation of Eâ—gâ— by Mr Sutcliffs argumeÌ„t not thâ— tru church of Christ. This is the Catholiâ—s argument and plea which how Mr Bern. or his brethren will wel answer and stand also to that which they haue written against vs I cannot tel Finally against that often boasting of the work and effect of the ministery of Engl I will oppose a testimony of one of their chief miâ—isters yet our professed aduersary that it cannot be thought he was partial for vs at all Mr Gifford is the man that thus hath written Somâ— dâ—e wonder how it should come to passe that among vs there should be so many which being borne since the gospell was restored in this land are so zealously addicted unto Popery which thâ—y neuer did know and so utter enemies to the Gospel which they hear But if they weigh the causes of this deadly mischeef they will cease wondring at that and rather wonder that there be no more For how can it bâ— so long as there be so many abuses in the ministery but that many shall stumble and loath the Gospell For from thence as it is manifest the cheife cause of this euill doth spring True it is that our ministery doth fight against them but yet in such sort that it doth greatly increase them Seeming and pretending to tread vpon those cockatrise eggs for to breake them and so â—o destroy utterly thâ— viperous generation when as indeed they sit vpon them and so hatch the broâ—ds of this euill kinde and bring them forth in great plenty For behold a number cry out against popery and proclaym vtter defiance in speach but their doings are such that for euery one which they conuert to the gâ—spel they cause an hundred to reuolt to be hardned in their errors or to fall into flat Atheisme While many coÌ„trary to the professioÌ„ wâ—ich they made when they entred setting aside the care of sowles not esteeming nor regarding what become of them studie most how to clime high and to satisfy their ambitious desire of honour taking togither liuings couetously and greedily not caring who feed the flock so they may â—â—me by the fleese Moreouer the door hath been opened also â—o let into the church 〈…〉 and swarme of such as are more like the priests of Ieroboam then ministerâ— of the gospell not onely unlearned idols which haue mouthes and speake nâ—t which being weary of their occupations and couet to liue easily and to that end are entred but also riotous dicers gamesters quaffers quarrellers adulterers and such like If the matter were secret I should doe amisse to make it manifest but when it is open in the sight and view of all men who can complayn iustlie when it is spoken of Let this record of Mr Gâ—ffords for the effect of their administration and their good quallities besides togither with Mr Bernards former doctrine for their first calling and ordination by the popish prelates shew whether it be not like that this ministery will ere long make accord with the mother church of Rome that hatched it and for whom it againe hatcheth cockatrices eggs The tenth error that we should hold is that their worship in Engl. is a false worship To proue this to be an error Mr Bern. bringeth these reasons 1. That they worship no false God I answer Neyther did Ieroboam the son of Nebaâ— who made Israel to syn yet vsed he a false worship 1 King 12. 2. That they worship the true God with no false worship for they haue the true word preached the true sacraments and their prayers are such as maâ— be warranted by the word c. I answer this is but taking for granted that which he should proue for he knowes well that we deney thâ—se things and by many reasons in sundry bookes none of which Mr Bern. answereth haue disproued their preaching ministring of Sacraments booke prayer c. Seing he will answer nothing before written by vs let him in his next booke prooue that the Apocrypha scriptures and homily bookes which they read in Gods worship are his true word that the sacraments which the vnpreaching priests minister to their profane parishioners by their popish leitourgie are true sacraments let him approue by Gods word the obseruation of all their holy dayes fasting dayes with their prescript peculiar seruice briefly let him shew warrant for his seruice book the making and vse thereof with all the popish contents therein These are strange incense new forgeries of their own neuer appoynted by Christ or his Apostles wherefore we doubt not to affirme their worship to be false euen an humane inuention With these things Mr Bern. medleâ—h not but bringeth proof for other matters which we neuer denyed and referreth vs to an after treatise which now next followeth to be answered Yet ere he leaueth us he will utter all his hart and from his inner store powreth out against vs 12. errors moe whâ—ch he will not spend time he saith in conâ—utâ—tion of they are so absurd and false being also as he thinketh conâ—ured by the former Though nothing need be answered where no shew of proof is made yet to satisfy the reader and shew him the vanity of this aduersary I will briefly touch them all and they be these 1 That their congregations as they stand are all and euery of them vncapable before God to chuse them ministers though they desire the meanes of saluation Al such as desire the means of saluation in what congregations soeuer haue ower and liberty from God to separate from all euill and ioyne togither in good and so to enioy Gods blessings in his ministery or any other part of the Gosâ—el But we hold that no false church hath power from God to chuse ministers which he hath ordeyned onely for true churches 1 Cor. 12.28 Eâ—h 4 12 Râ—m 12.4 5 c. we wonder with what face any Christian can say otherweise If Mr Bern. make the error to be in holding them false churches then is it the same with the 8. error before answered and is here bâ—t idly of him repeated 2. That God in their best assembliâ—s is worshipped after a false manner An other idle repetition of that which before he made our Tenth error which there was answered 3. That baptisme is not administred into the fayth of Christ simply but into the fayth of Bishops and Church of Engl. This I think is Mr Bernards vncharitable collection not our Position Though we hold baptisme among them to be administred neyther by a true minister nor after a lawfull manner but according to their own prescript Leitourgie and to the seed of
of the archangel Michael Boniface the 8. shewed like honour to the 4 Euangelists and many other memorable gests are recorded of the Fathers of the See of Rome whereof there is not a word in the Testament of Christ that he or his disciples did euer the like For they appoynted not priests apparall long gownes tippers 4. horned capps as did Pope Zacharie nor a white linen surplice at seruice time as did Pope Syluester 1. They hallowed no Temples or Churches as did P. Hyginus nor Churchyards as did P. Calistus 1 Neyther ordeyned ringing of bells to call the people to diuine seruice as did P. Sabinian They appointed no Rood-loft to part the Chancel from the church as did P. Bâ—niface 2 nor hallowed Font to Christen in or Godfathers and Godmothers at baptisme as did P Pius 1. and Hyginus They commanded not the people to goe procession as did Pope Agapetus 1. nor appoynted any Bishoping or Confirmation of children as did P Clement 1. with a great number more of like pranks vsed in the Romish seruice which Christs Apostles knew not as their writings shew But the church of Engl. as next heir of Romes constitutions reteyneth these reliques obserueth these rites and a many moe for which the Papists doe insult and say that from their treasure house the religion now established hath learned the forme of christening Marrying Churching of women Visiting the sick Burying and sundry other likâ— as the books translated out of theirs doe declare And now what sayth Gods law for all such things vnto his people I am sayth he the Lord your God After the doing of the land of Aegypt wherein ye dwel shall ye not doe and after the doing of the land of Canaan whether I will bring you shall ye not doe neyther walke in their ordinances My iudgments shall ye doe and my ordinances shall ye keep to walke in them I am the Lord your God Thus he forbad them not onely the worship of false Gods but euen the imitation of idolatrous worship rites and ordinances in his seruice wherfore he charged them againe that they should not so much as inquire or ask how the nations serued their Gods that they might doe so to the Lord their God But whatsoever he commanded them they should make heed to doe it putting nothing thereto nor taking ought therfrom Yet the Bishops and Priests of Engl. haue almost all things in their Leiâ—ourgie according to the doings of that spiritual Aegypt the Romish church wherein they dwelt and haue imitated her worships‘ orders ceremonies c. reteyned her ministery prelacy courts and canons thâ— Latine being turned into English and some grosse superfluities left ouâ— And in defense of this worship haue these godly ministers written Mr Bernard published their work wherein if the reader see not a soâ—nd proof of the things that Mr Barrow whose errors they pretend to confute reproued he must impute it to the badnes of their cause which wil scars admit of any colour from the booke of God For besides the abuse of holy scriptures alleged to iustify these popish stratagems how sound diuine or rather how fond and corrupt is the reasoning of these men from Gods example and authority vnto their own practise and power that because the Lord God gaue formes of blessing prayer and psalmes to his people as the scriptures which they cite doe shew therefore their Lords the Prelates may giue them also prescript words for blessing prayer and Psalmes c. as is to be seen in their seruice book Can we thinke that Ieroboam had so slender a reason for his goldeÌ„ calues Why doe not these men also plead that God gaue a law by Moses therefore ther may a law be giuen likewise by the Bishops or th' Apostles wrote a new Testament therefore the Conuocation house may also write a Testament or Gospel bring it into the church If the Prophets practise will bear them ovt in the one I see no cause why it may not vphold them in the other Wel seing neyther Mr Gifford heretofore nor these ministers now can bring better defense for the work of their own hands wherewith they worship or rather prouoke the Lords I leaue them to consider of those lawes that euery where cry ovt against and shew the punishment of idolatrie Neyther is it needfull to keep the Reader with longer answer seing Mr Barrow in the fornamed books and Mr Greenwood in a peculiar treatise against these stinted prayers and seâ— worship haue proued the vnlawfulnes of them by many reasons which neyther these ministers nor any other haue yet taken away And when they write agayn let them not bring proofs for things that we deney not as that Daunds Psalmes may be sung in the church and that in our prayers we may vse or apply the words that other holy men before vsed in their prayers vpon like occasions both these we grant and practise but let them proue if they be able and their right hand can help them that their own writetnn prayers psalmes c. may be read and sung in churches churchâ—â— as Gods true worship and then also they may command the clowdes to rayn no more and may cause to cease the bottels of heauen Like to their former plea and maintenance of their seruice booke is also their answer for Catechismes as for Homilies it seemes they leaue the the defense of them to the simple priests that read them but Catechismes are vsed euen by the learned preachers therefore somewhat they say for them as that the principles of religion were taught in the churches of old RoÌ„ 2.20 6 17.2 Tim 1 13 Heb. 5.12.13 14 and 6 1.2 But these ministers are eyther simple or very deceitfull so to turne away from the question For we neuer deneyed that the grounds and heads of Christian religion should be taught to the people far be it from vs but this we say the Prophets and Apostles are not found to prescribe set words for the minister to teach or the people to answer being examined And that therefore these Bishops and Priests are very presumptuous that wil take vpon them to doe that which Christs Apostles neuer did in the churches Agayn that if those men of God had to done yet seing the writings of Prophets and Apostles are canonicall scriptures and so are no mens writings now it will by no meanes follow that if they wrote catechismes to be vsed in the Church therefore men may writ some for like vse now Yea rather why are they not content with that which is already written in the scriptures but run to erroneous catechismes of humane writers such as is that authorized catechisme in the book of common prayer commanded to be vsed in the church of England Hauing heard what these godly ministers say for their people and seruice book I exspected somewhat also for defense of their own minister and the ecclesiasticall gouernment of
the name of the Lord and 2 of faith by hearing his word 1. Whosoeuer call th upon the name of the Lord shal be saued This we are to understand according to Dauids exposition whosoeuer calleth vpon him in truth Psa. 145 18. for God is a spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and trâ—th Ioh. 4.24 but the worship and calling vpon God which your Church vseth in reading the prayers letanie collects and other like things of your Leiturgie translated out of AntiChrâ—st mass-masse-booke is carnall false Idolatrous for such a manner of diuine service you haue no commandement or warrant in the scriptures And this popish worship begetteth not but destroyeth faith and the true caling on Godâ— name and deceiueth mens sowles for in vayn they worship me sayth Christ teaching fâ—r doctrine the precepts of men Mat. 15.9 and they that wayt vpâ—n lyâ—ng vanâ—ties forsake their own mercy Ionah 1 8 2. For the other poynt Faâ—th is by bearing or by report saith the Apostle and proueth it by Isa. 53.1 Lord who hath beleeued our beâ—ring that is our report Now no man can truly and faithfully report â—nlesse God hath first spoken vnto â—â—m neâ—ther can aâ—y man fruâ—tfully hear other report or doctrine then the Lords and so hearing is by the word of God iâ— the mouthes of such as are sent as he sheweth in the 15 verse But youâ— Ministers are not truly and lawfully sent for they cannot shew eyther calling ordination or office according to Chrâ—sts Testament therefore they cannot truly and lawfully preach his word and consequently cannot beget ordinarily a true sauing faith The next scripture also Mat 28 19 20 playnly condemneth the state of your Church and ministerâ—e for 1. There is a lawfull calling authorizing and sending of ministerâ— from him that hath all power in heauen and in earth saying Goe therfore and teach but such a sending your ministers haue not for as your selues haue sayd they enter not in by Chrict but by a Popish and vnlawfull vâ—cation 2. There is a commandement to teach or make disciples before they be receiued into th' Church by baptisme for oâ— them that ar taught such onely as gladly receiue and beleeue the word are to be baptised and admitted into the Church as the practise of th' Apostle sheweth Act. â— 40 41. but your Church was not thuâ— gathered or plaÌ„ted by th' preaching of the Gospell but by the commandement of the Magistrate neither weâ— onely the willing beleevers receiued and others refused but the whole profane multitudes wer admitted or rather compelled into your church wher they and their seed are still retâ—yned 3. There Gods Ministers are willed to teach Chrâ—stians so baptised to obserue all things whatsoeuer Christ commanded his Apostles verse 20 so they haue his gracious promise and blessing to the end of the world but in your church many things are obserued which Christ neuer commaâ—ded Yea the Ministerie and goâ—erment appoynted in his TestameÌ„t are held and confirmed by practise among you not to be perpetual not necessary nor fitting for your state but an other pompous minâ—stery and Lordly ecclesiastical gouerment after the manner of the court of Rome And as for power and liberâ—y to obserue Christ commandements that is farr from your people which al are in bondage to the Bishops and their courts hauing not chrâ—stian freedom to censure sinne or sinners or practise the ordinances of the Gospel as the Apostles did vnlesse Princes and Parliaments will permit or command them The like may be sayd and returned vpon you from the other scriptures by you alleged all which doâ— concerne the true church and ministerie as your selues will not deny and so will helpe you nothing vntill you proue your church and ministerie such Boast not therefore of a true sauing faith and fruites of the spirit when such bitter fruites and works of the flesh doe reign among you for faith without works 〈◊〉 dâ—ad Iam. 2.26 Now then if you will giue us leaue to consider the state of your Church aright we would mind it thus your Church hath the essentiall notes of a false Church namly a confuse prophane worldly people with an Antichrâ—stian Prelacie and preisthood over them able to beget ordinarily but a vayne and dead faith through want of the true ministery of the word in Christs ordinance and by meanes of the false worship and false doctâ—nes that are in your Church to worke the fruits of the flesh as the idolatries and other sinful actions abounding in your Church doe shew to make a man a very Antichristian by resisting persecuting and blaspheming the true way of Christ and practise of his Gospel which alas too many doe and last of all to destroy him if he repent not of his sinneâ—â—nd find mercie with the Lord. which we desire you all may finde for the saluation of your soules The 3. Consideration OVr Church and ministerie are approved of and rejoyced for of all the pure reformed Churches in the world Our confession by them placed in the Harmonie of Confessions giâ—ing vs the right hand of fellowship as also by all the godly learned and most sound and excellent fathers lights of the churâ—h that euer liued in or meddle with our church Bucer Marâ—yr Fagius Alasio Knoxe who liued â—n our church Caluin Beza Bullinger Gualtâ—r â—ymlâ—r Zanchius Iunius Rolocus c. with others verie many who haue giuen their testimony and approbation to our church and ministerie Wherin if our errors were fundamentall damnable and Antichristian as you terme them these churches and persons had vndoubtedly the spirit of discerning and could not be deceiued all at once 1. Cor. 11 16. 14.33 â— 15 10.15 14.32 37 2. Thes. 1.4 Answer THough you come against vs with horsemen and charrets yet we will â—emember the name of the Lord our God by whose word alone all doctrines must be tried all persons must â—udge and be iudged It is incident to the best men and purest churches to erre and be deceiued wherefore their sentences and approbations must be examined by Gods word If you say otherweise you teach corrupt and popish doctrine With such weapons as these haue the Papists long foâ—ght against you and where you can bring one they can bring many to witnesse for them and their Romish superstitions Antiquity vniversality and sâ—ch lâ—ke popular reasons they seek to vphold their kingdome withall 2. The word of God condemning your church and ministerie as we haue often proued and our proofes ly vpon you yet unanswered though all churches in the world should aâ—proue of you your case wer â—o whit the better for all men are vanity 3. The Iewes obieâ—ted as weighty aâ— argâ—mâ—nâ— agaâ—â—â—t Câ—riâ—t him selfe wheâ— they sayd dâ—th any of the rulers or of the Phariseâ—s 〈◊〉 in him but this people which know not the Law are â—ursed Iâ—h 7 1â— 19 4. If the reformed Church's apâ—roue so well of youâ— Church and
you vs of this as a consideratioÌ„ to reduce us to your church when we because such Atheists wicked ar coÌ„trary to Gods wil suffred among you doe separate from your Church 3. Agayn who be those godly ministers and people you mean If such as are called Puritans they haue I suppose moe adversaries theâ— freinds in your church yea the publick state alwes and canons of your church are against them and all that know the truth of God and theâ—r estate aright haue just cause to blame them for theâ—r long halting and dissembling If the Prelates be those godly minâ—sters they haue in regard of their vnlawfull places and proceedings many good people for their aduersaries both within and without the land and your selues also which suffer for sâ—paration in your church By neither of these two contrary factions among you ar men ordinarily conuerted unto Christ both sorts setting your selues against the true way of Chrâ—st for gathering and gouernmenâ— of the Church and worship of God and so do hinder mens saluation and deserâ—e to be not approued but reproued in the name of the Lord. The 5. Consideration 5. GOD hath giuen witnâ—â— for the truth of our ministerie by the vndoubted tâ—stimony of his gracious presence and approbation of the same by his gifts of 1. sanctifiâ—ation 2 knowledge 3 spirit of discerning 4. of vtterance 5 of power and authority in teaching 6 effectuall and ordinarie â—alling and begetting to the faiâ—h of God and bringing them from darknâ—s to light from the old man to the nâ—w from the flâ—sh vnto the spirit which ministery of ours begat you â—lso if ever you were truâ—y bâ—gotten in the spirit by Gods mâ—rcie hath begotten me other hâ—s vnworthy seruants Answer 1. THe Papists will say as much as all this and more too if words will serâ—eâ— for the ministery of their church they boast of theâ—r Friers Iesuâ—ts holines knowledge utterance authority in teaching and their maruelous effects in conuerting to Christianity the Indians other â—eâ—thens all ouer the world Yea what religeon glorieth not in tâ—e sanctitie gifts and effects of their ministerie But Gods word must try all 2. The ministerie of â—our Church being Archbishops L. Bishops Deanes Archdeacons c Priests and Deacons as is to be seen in the books statutes and canons of your church you brâ—ng not here any one word of God or text of scriptures which are his testimonies to witnes for the truth of your ministery and this is indeed worthy to be considered of vs of al that shall read your Considerations 3. Your own brethren heretofore confessed and complayned to the Parliament that you lack in England a right ministery of God that the ministers are neithâ—r proued elected called nor ordeyned according to Gods word This testimonie being true how then doth God giue witnes for the truth of your ministery 4. The witnesâ—es that you bring if they be examined wil say little ar nothing to this purpose For 1. The gift of santification is a common note of Christianity 1. Thes. 4.3 1 Pet. 2.9 and therefore no speciall note of a ministery This was Korahs argument when he would haue vsurped the Priesthood All the congregation is holy euery one of them why may they not therefore be Prâ—ests Num. 16.3.10 But what saith the scripture No man taketh thâ—â— honour to himselfe but he that is called of God as Aaron was Heb. 5.4 2.3 The second and third 2 knowledge 3 of the spirit of discerning are also generall for the whole church and not speciall for the ministerie Rom. 15.14 Phil. 1.10 Yea some in the flock may have a greater measure both of sanctification and of knowledge then the Pastor or teacher or any Officer It cannot be denied but Barsabas had knowledge as wel as Matthias yet was he not therefore an Apostle Act. 1.23.26 and they whose genealogies could not be found had knowledge as wel as the other Prâ—ests yet were they not therâ—fore kept in the Priesthood Ezra 2.62 Boast not you therefore of your knowledge but shew vs yoâ—r genealogies in the scriptâ—res There be a great many in your ministerie called dumb Priestâ— whâ—ch are but bare readers by whose meanes many people perish for want of knowledge these testimonâ—es will be dumb for them yet your â—â—urch proclaymeth them to be â—rue ministers Your best ministerâ— of whose knowledge you boast shew themseluâ—â— ignorant or worse in the 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 â—lanting of a church whâ—les they will haue it as their â—ractise proueth with commixâ—â—re of al form without separation whereaâ— they cannot shew any true church since the beginning of the world but was of a separaâ—ed people Gen. 61.2 12 1. Lâ—v 20.23.24 Ezr. 6 21. Act. 2 40.41 19 9. c. 4. 5. The fowrth and fift 4. vttâ—rance with 5 power authority in teaching are needfull in such as are ministers but no neceâ—sarie proof of a true ministerie For had not the false Apostles and Prophets utterance and power that preached wâ—th eloquence and wisdom of words dâ—sgracing the Apostles and Prophets of the Lord 2 Cor. 10.10 11.13.15 1. Kin. 22. â—4 Ier. 23.31 28.1.2.10 11. 2 Tim. 3.8 Your ministers many preach not at al many preach to mayntain the pompous prelacie laudable ceremonies of your Church and they that prâ—ach best shew little power or authority For how many yeers haue they been preaching for Discipline and against some corruptionâ— of your church yet nothing preuailed but are further now at last then they were at the first Who knoweth not that the prelates haue closed vp the mouthes of many Ministers that the prophesie of Esaias is verified vpon them Isa. 56.10 and yet you boast of theâ—r utterance auâ—hority in teaching But lamentable ministers are they â—ll and the best of them may be seen to be but briers and to haue betrayed the authority of Christ For when they took the Order of Priesthood as they call it they solemnly promised euen before the Lord and by his help that they would giue their faithfull diligence alwayes so to minister the doctrine and sacraments and the discipline of Christ as the Lord hath commanded as this realm hath receiued the same according to the commandements of God so that they mought teach the people committed to their care and charge wâ—th all diligence to keep obseruâ— the same They promised also reuerently to obey their ordinary other chief ministers is to whom the gouernmeÌ„t charg is commited ouâ—r them following with a glad mind and will their godly admoniâ—ion and submitting theÌ„seluâ—â— to their godly juâ—gement Yet your forward preachers as they are esteemed doe not minister the doctrine sacraments and discipline of Christ as thâ— Lord hath commanded but sue and wait for authority from the Magâ—strate to haue that whâ—ch they count the true discipline of Christ erected in theâ—r parishes which because the ciuill Magistrate doeth not they practise
of al men by that word if men eyther will not trie nor giue sentence at all or doe judge amisse we are not bound to wayt vpon them but must liue by our own faith The reformed churches haue been wrâ—â—ten to by vs for we know and acknowledge them to be true churcheâ— and our brethren in the Lord they giue vs no Answer Shall wee coÌ„tinew still â—n boÌ„dage to Antichrâ—st til they bid vs com out What scripture teacheth vs so If they or any convince vs of error or evill and we yeeld not leâ— vs be esteemed accordingly otherwise if we walke in the truth and they will not approue it be it vpon them as they shal answer befâ—re the Lord. Mr. Iunius whom you mention to reply so sharply neyther approueth your Church nor condemneth our practice no not though he were instantly vrged the writings between him and us are extant to the world let the reader judge what both sides haue sayd Your censure of Mr Barrow or scoffing rather at him neyther hurteth him or vs nor helpeth you His playn dealing in reprouing the corruptions of these times you call rayling it is marvel you say not also the prophets rayled on the people of Israel when they vsed sharp rebukes for I suppose you can hardly shew any hard speech that Mr. Barrow ther writeth which the Prophets and Apostles haue not vsed before But if he were overcaried with some seuere speeches in a good cause‘ neyther we not himselfe euer iustified that infirmitie we know that we are frayl men let the sharpnesse therefore be his but the trueth which he sharply teacheth Gods And why carp you at the manner of his writing and meddle not with the matter That book with others haue discouered the idolatries of your church which neyther by you nor any haue euer yet been answered refuted by the scriptures For your self let the reader iudge what you â—aue sayd The 7 Consideration 7. THe great and grosse disorder and partiallity in administring of your disciplinâ— which George Iohnson sheweth cheerly besides the wants of sunctimony and common duties of godlynes which he sayth are to be found in farr greater measure in the câ—mmâ—n professâ—rs of the church of England and saith further that the Dutch churches take you for a most vnquiet conâ—entious and disorderly people Answer THis article you obiect vnto vs vpon one mans report that was for lying and slandering false accusation and contention himselfe cast out of our Church By what rule or word of God can you admit of the testimony of an excommunicate against a whole congregation Reason also might teach you that no man standing against a church to excommunication will ever speake wel of that church in the cause wherein he standeth But grant that this all were true which he reporteth what would you vrge vpon it that therefore Christianitie which we professe is evill so perhaps a Turk or Iew would doe with as much reason as you can conclude that our separation from you is euill Was there ever any truth think you that men did walke in it as they ought or any Church in the world wherein the discipline as you call it was administred as it should Iulian the Apostata that wrote so much against Christ reading the testimonies of Moses the Prophets and Apostles Deut. 9.7.22.24 Isa. 59 3 4 5 c. Mic. 3.9.11 1. Cor. 5.1.2 11.21.22 c. 3 Iohn 9.10 had as good ground to blame the Israelites and Christians for their manners discipline and consequently to disswade them from their faith as you do vs yea he might allege faithfull and vndeniable witnesses whereas you rely vpon a slanderer Finally what ayme you at in all this but to draw vs back vnto your church and there it is like we shall find discipline without disorder or partiallity to weet in your Bishops courts for there the discipline of your church is to be seen Of which we need say nothing the voyce almost of al the land crieth out of their abominations Onely we obserue how pregnant your perswasions are to make vs beleeu that because there ar sinns in Sion there be none in Babylon The 8 Consideration 8. GOD neuer witnessed for you nor gaue testimony of his approuing your separation whether we consider your ministerie or people For hardly can you shew any one person conuerted by your ministery from papistry or atheisme or other open wickednes as by Gods blessing multitudes haue been by ours but onely haue you seduced and wrought vpon the tender consciences of such as by our ministery were first begotten vnto Christ But which is specially to be obserued from your distracted and devided congregations multitudes haue fallen away to euery kind of impiety herisie reigning in the world Answer IF God approue our seperation and our ministerie by his word as we are surâ— he dooth it is yenoâ—gh though our ministery haue not conuerted any Your reason is as if a Câ—inite should haâ—e sayd vnto Nâ—ah God neuer witneâ—sed for thee nor gaue testimony of his approuing thy building of the Ark for hardly canst thou shew any one person converted by thy precahing or Ark building these 120. yeares Our ministery belongeth to our church the assemblies whereof Papists Athâ—ists such like wicked ones vse not to frequent and how is it poâ—sible â—ur ministery should conuert such as come not to heare it If we wâ—â—ld obiect vnto you that few Turks and Saracens haue been converred by yâ—ur mâ—â—isterie what would you answer Yet where you say â—e can harâ—ly shâ—w my c. we can if need wer shew you many that wer sometime profâ—in irreligious whiles they were of your church but coÌ„mâ—ng and heâ—râ—ng by Gods providence the doctrine of our church haue been reclâ—ymed from their lewd life doe walk holily in the faith with vs. It is true in â—eed that our cause hath wrought most vpoÌ„ such as being somtimes vnâ—er yoâ—r ministery had tender consciences pliable to the truth others of more corrupt consciences haue set against blasphemed it Tâ—e â—â—â—â—ideratioâ— of this in any wise mans iudgment wil rather lead vnto â—hen â—rom our cause when the better sort by your own confession do come vnto vs the worser and refuse remayn stil with you Your last poynt which you would haue specially to be obserued that multitudes haâ—e fallen from vs to every kind of heresie and impietie is indeed worthy to be obserued For first the scripture is fulfilled which sayth mâ—ny shâ—ll â—leaue vnto them faynedly Dan. 11.34 Secondly being fallen if they had com to a more holy faith better walking wheÌ„ they were gone out from vs it might haue importeâ— ours to be evil but now that they haue fallen to grosse heresie impietie it argueth Gods hand so be heavy vp on them because they continued not in the truth with vs. And this the scripture confirmeth saying of such as receiue not the loue of the truth
and by all the Seers saying turne from your evill wayes c. neverthelesse they would not obey but hardened thâ—ir necks c. 2 Kiâ— 17 13 14 The next place Isa 55.11 sheweth the nature of Gods word which is effectâ—â—ll to make better or worse as he will that sendeth it not alwayes tâ— conuert for Pharaoh was hardned by it not onelie by the officers fâ—r â—â—is honoâ—r is to all the Saincts to haue the high acts of God in their mâ—â—thes and a two edged sword in their hands to execute vengeance in the heathens and corrections among the people c. Psal 149 6 7.9 The fruites whereby false prophets are knowne from true Mat. 7 â—0 are not the effects of their doctrine by converting men onely for so many true prophets heretofore should haue been iudged false but the doctrine it selfe and the works of life and conuersation are the prophets fruites which also may both be good in them that haue no office at all The next place Luk. 1.76 speaketh in partâ—cular of Iohns extraordinary office and work wherein God imployed him and proueth your purpose no more then the other Iohn 1â— 1 2. speaketh of lawfull enterers into the sheepfold by the door and of theeues that clime vp an other way What this will say for your ministers I know not vnlesse to proue them theeues for their entrance into the ministerie by the dâ—ore that is by Christs ordinance iâ— his church they cannot shew no lawfull office or calling haue they to witnâ—sse for them Yea they are ashamed of their office calling and entrance by the Bishops and secretly doe disclaym that to their people pretend their gifts graces and effects for proof of their ministerie 〈◊〉 many of vs that haue dealt with them doe know But what say I secrâ—â—ly nay openly and in print they haue yeelded that thâ—y enter not in by Christ but by a popish and vnlawfull vocatiâ—n The like seemeth â—o be closelie implied in these your arguments where you neither name what office your preachers haue nor how lawfullie they come by it as the reader may obserue The words of the Apostle 1 Cor. 9.1 2 4.15 shew two things 1 â— lawfull office of Apostleship 2 and Gods blessing vpon his labors in that office neither of Which can be shewed by your ministers neither proueth it yoâ—r proposition more then the other places For I hold with you that Gods lawfull ministers are the principall and most excellent ordinarie outward meanes for to work repentance faith c. but not the onely as you would haue it The Assumption namelie that such effects doe follow your preachers doctrine is denied You refer vs for the proof thereof to that which you wrote before and I also refer the reader to that which is before answered And here I wil add a further demonstration that true repentance can not follow your preachers doctrine in as much as they teach not true repentance neyther can teach it because their mouthes are mouzled by your church that they may not speake For thus it hath enacted Whosoeuer shall hereafter affiâ—me that the forme of Gods worship in the Church of England established by law and conteyned in the book of Common prayer c. is a corrupt superstitious or vnlawfull worship of God or conteyneth any thing in it that is repugnant to the scriptures let him be excommunicated ipso facto and not restored but by the Bishop of the place or Archbishop after his repentance and publick revocation of such his wicked errors Whosoeuer shall hereafter affirm that the rites and ceremonies of the church of England by law established are wicked Antichristian or superstitious or such as being commanded by lawfull authority men who are zealously and godly affected may not with any good conscience approue them vse them or as occasion requireth subscribe vnto them let him be excommunicated ipso facto and not restored vntill he repent and publickly revoke such his wicked errors Whosoeuer shall hereafter affâ—rm that the gouerment of the Church of Eng. vnder his Maiestie by Archbishops Bishops Deanes Archdeacons and the rest that doe bear office in the same is Antichristian or repugnant to the word of God let him be excommunicated ipso facto and so continew vntil he repent and publickly reuoke such his wicked errors Whosoeuer shall hereafter affirm or teach that the forme and manner of making and consecrating Bishops Priests and Deacons conteyneth any thing in it that is repugnant to the word of God let him be excommunicated ipso facto not to be restored vntil he repent and publicly revoke such his wicked errors These and the like constitutions hath your representatiue church of England made for maintenance of their worship ministerie ecclesiasticall gouernment rites ceremonies c against which your forward preachers heretofore so earnestly inveighed as being corrupt vnlawfull and antichristian but now behold their mouthes are shut they may not preach repentance for the many abominations that are among you if they doe they are excommunicated ipso facto and then are they neither officers nor members of your church Wherfore your ministers are eyther fain to hold their peace and be such as the Prophet complaineth of that rise not vp in the breaches nor make vp the hedge for the howse of Israel to stand in the battel in the day of the Lord or els they preach for defence of your own inuented worship pompous clergie and laudable ceremonies and are such as the prophet blameth for hauing seen a vayne vision and spoken a lying divination saying the Lord sayth it albeit he hath not spoken What reward then can they exspect for their preaching but as the Lord there threatneth that his hand shal be vpon them they shall not be in th' assembly of his people nor written in the writing of the howse of Israel Wherefore if there be any weight or soundnes in this your argument it may be returned vpon you thus The preachers after whose publick doctrine doe ordinarilie follow impenitency and continuance in an evill â—nd idolatrous estate of life in the hearers ar not the true ministers of God But after the doctrine of the preachers of your best assemblies doe ordinarily follow and appear impenitency idolatry and other fruites of the flesh in the hearers as is proued by the answer to this and to the assumption of your 4 argument for the churches Therfore the preachers of your best assemblies are not the true Ministers of God The 2 Argument SVch Ministers as haue promise of salvation in their present standing ar true Ministers of Christ. But so haue the ministers of our best assemblies Ergo. c. Proof of the assumption Because the promise of saluation is giuen to such Ministers as 1 are faithfull and wise stewards giuing the household meat in due season Mat 24 45.46 2. build gold siluer or stubble on the foundation 1 Cor 3 12 15. 3.
himself and the Conformists of farr greater esteem in this church then the Reformists Whether this be not a playne schisme and Mr Bern a factious person thus to carry hâ—mselfe in a church let himselfe say as also whether he be not fâ—r this ipso â—acto excommâ—nicated by force of theâ—r own Canon which sayth Whosoeuer shall hereafter separate themselues from the Communion of Saincts as it is approued by the Apostles rules in the Church of England and combine themselues together in a new brotherhood accounting the Christiâ—ns who are conformable to the doctrine gouernments rites and ceremonies of the church of England to be profane and vnmeet for them to ioyne with in Christian profession let them be excommunicated ipso facto and not restored but by the Archbishop after their repentance and publick reuocation of such their wicked errors Into like danger doth he come by Canon 11 and 12. The il meanes by which our cause is mainteyned he makeâ—h to be strange expositiâ—n of scripture c. First Mr Bern. here walketh still in the Papists steps who obiect the like vnto the Protestants Let an indifferent reader say they peruse the learnedst book of these reformers and he shall see in them false allegations of Fathers corruptions of scriptures fathers and councels c. Secâ—â—dly I answer our expositions may seeme strange to such as are themselues strangers from God but the Godly wise can discerne to whom if they haue read our books I leane the iudging of this probability Now thâ—s old calumniatioÌ„ which SataÌ„ layd vpoÌ„ the Sainct how truly Mr Bâ—rn hath layd vpon vs let his proofs shew which are in these two particulars First that one of us sayth All the truth is not taught in the Church of Eâ—gland and to proue this Act. 20 21. is cited Which one of vs thus citeth Act. 20 and where Mr Bern. nameth not Good cause we haue to suspect his faithfulnes for in his book he chargeth vs with some errors which we hold not as after shall appear And he that would so iniury the whole what may we think he wâ—ll doe for a part I suppose therefore the party cited that scripture to proue the whole truth ought to be taught which because it may be questioned whether it be needfull at all times therefore the Apostles example is brought As for the Priests of England 〈◊〉 they preach not the whole truth is proued by their dayly practise who balk many truthes touching the church ministery worship governmenâ— c. as all that obserue their doctrines know very well It is proued â—lso by the lawes and canons of their church which excommunicate â—ll such as shall by the truth reproue the falsehoods and abominations that are among them as before in this treatise is shewed And Mr Bern. is very silly if he exspect any scriptures to proue what is now taught in his church Furthermore if it be granted him that Act. 20. were by some one of vs alleged for the purpose he pretendâ—th yet it is no more lâ—kelihood that our cause is evill then that his brethrens cause and plea against vs is evill for they without all doubt doe allege scriptures for to proue things done in Engl which it is not posible by the scripturs for to shew See before in this book pag. 43. c 44. But what speak I of others Mr Bern himsefe is fayn to vse such colours els would the glory of his church soon fade for in the 48 page of his book he allegeth God for witnes that they are his people 1 by giuing them his word Psa 147.19 20. 2 by his effectuall working thereby Ier 22 22 therefore there is the voyce of the sonne of God Ioh. 5.25 c. If these be found and sufficient proofs that England hath Gods word because Israel had it and so in the rest then why may not men allege like Scriptures and proofs against them saying They are stayned with their own works and goe a whoring with their own inuentions Psal. 106 39. from the Prophets of Ierusalem is hyprocrisie gone forth into all the Land Ier. 23.15 I haue not sent these Prophets sayth the Lord yet they ran c. Ier. 23.21 and the like So then Mr Bern. must eyther bring better reasons for himselfe or els he may blush to blame others for that wherein himself is more faulty then they if they be faulty at all The other particular which he specifieth is that places setting forth the inuisible church c. we bring to set forth the visible church by as namely 1. Pet. 2.9 10. But Mr Bern. shewes his reader no reason at all why that Scripture must be vnderstood of the inuisible church as he Sayth and it is an easie matter for him to find faults without reasoÌ„ in any maÌ„s writing That place of Peter as the wise reader may perceiue Speaketh of and to the visible or Sensible church for th' Apostle wrote to the visible christians the strangers that then dwelt in Pontus Galatia c. and this which he speaketh to them in Chap· 2 9.10 is as Moses of old spake to the visible church of Israel Exod. 19 6. Againe he mentioneth the end of their calling to this dignity vidz to shew forth the vertues of him that had called them out of darknes into his maruelous light which whether it appertaynes not to the visible church I leaue it for euery true member thereof to iudge And such as these are the exceptions that D. Allison to whome he referreth us tooke heretofore which because they are vnworthy a Dr. of Diuinity we haue though best to passe by as vnworthy of reply till further occasion The 4. likelihood is that we haue not the approbation of any reformed churches Churches for our cause This is much like his first probability before answered and seemeth to be a mayn propp to vphold the church of England which loue to make flesh their arme The reader may see this poynt thrise vrged before in this book and thrise answered I referr him also to our Letters vnto Mr Iunius whome Mr Bern. mentioneth finally to the Apologie of the church of England where themselues say vnto the like obiections of the Papists thâ— truth of the Gospel of Iesus Christ dependeth not upon councels add also nor vpon Churches nor as S. Paul sayth vpon the iudgements of mortall creatures The 5. is the condemnation of this way by the Diuines of England both liuing and dead c. But this is no other likelihood then it is like Mr Bern. if he had then liued would haue alleged against Christ himselfe when the learned Priests Rabbines and Diuines of Israel condemned his way and doctrine Ioh. 7.48.49 19 7. c. If these learned English Diâ—ines haue confuted vs let Mr Bern. or any shew the scriptures and reasons by which they haue done it if they were our aduersaries without reason as some of them he
them which also he was willing a gentleman should haue printed in his own name that M Bern. might haue slept in a whâ—le 〈◊〉 whither himselfe I say and his fellow Reformists who are disaâ—oyntâ—d of their hope be not sorry for this prosperitie let themselues say As for vt we haue learned not to fret or enâ—y when we see the wicked flourish for they shall soâ—n be cut down as grasse and wither as the green herb Sory we are indeed for their lamentable estate and desire that they may find mercy at the hands of the Lord. Our foâ—rth kind of sinne he sayth is our abusing of the werd misaleging and 〈◊〉 it c. This was the third of his probabilities before answered and is here for a shew mustred agayn among our sinns but nakedly and without all proof I leaue it therefoâ—e to the reproof of God and to the godly iudgements of all that shall read our writings and allegations of the scriptures The 5. sinne is our wilfull persisting in our schisme This is agayn to beg the question first let it appear to be schisme that we are in let the reasons aâ—d grounds of our separation be orderly dealt in and soundly convinced by Gods word then if we yeild not let vs be holden wilfull Otherweise to persist in wel doing is good And as easily do the Papists cal Protestants schismaticks as they vs. Whether M Bernard with all the helps that he hath had from other men hath conuinced vs of schisme let the godly judge If reproching of vs and idle excursions into by matters be a conuiction doubtleâ—â—e he hath done it better then any before him The 6. syn is our rayling and sâ—â—ffing and as he sayth Henry Barrowes blasphemies who hath â—grâ—giously abused all their holyest exercises of religion c. I answer if such sinne be in any of vs it is even by our selues condemned and â—f by humane infirmity any haue been ouertaken with vnseasoned speeches we desire the Christian reader to bear with and pardon it in vs as himselfe would haue pardon of God The like hath Mr. Barrâ—â— earnestly intreated in his Preface to his Discouery as the reader may see so farr was he from delighting in such wayes Secondly I answer howsoeuer I will not justify all the words of another man nor yet mine own for in many things we sinne all that many of the thâ—ngs which this man counteth raylings scoffs and blasphemies are no other speaches them the holâ— Ghost hath vsed before vs in the scriptures and applâ—ed to like persons and seemed as harsh to men of those times as these doe to men now Thirdly it is lâ—kely that some be rather the printers fault vnlesse Mr. Bernard hath forged them himselfe then Mr Barrowes Fourthly the Reformists themselus amongst whome Mr Bern. sometimes seemed one haue uttered as hard speeches against the Prelateâ— other corruptions of their own church though now like time seruers they gloze with their reuerend Fathers as this man maketh the first of Mr Barrowes raylings scoffs and blasphemies to be his caling the Bishops Antichristian But how many volumâ—s haue themselues heretofore written of this argument And who amongst vs hath euer dealt as did Marâ—in Marprelate among themselues Finally Mr. Barrow did sharply in 〈…〉 against the reforming preachers as being the greatest deceiuers of the people vnder shew of holines This maketh them aâ—ayn so eâ—er agaiâ—st him but whither he spake not right of them may in part be seen already time will shew more they can no longer halt as hitherto they haue but eyther they must recâ—ncile them to thâ—ir Fathâ—rs or quite forsake them and a bleâ—sed work of God it is that the most dangerous seducers should thus first be discouâ—â—â—d THe third and last sort of reasons which M. Bern. vseth against vs is Our errors and as he sayth the matter of our sâ—hisme The errors which he reckneth vp and vndertaketh to confute arâ— ten The first of them is that we hold the constitution of their church to be a false constitution To this he sayth 1. That we cannot proue this simply by any playn docâ—rine of scripture c. 2. That it is against the euidence of the scriptures which maketh the word Mat. 28.19 Mar 16 15. 2 Cor. 5.19 11 2. Iob 23.23.24 Act. 2.14.37.38 16.32.33 the externall profeâ—sion Act. 8.12.37.38 and Sacraments Mat. 28 19. 1 Cor. 10.16 the visible and true constitution of a company so gathered and knâ—t together and so was theirs constituted as that book of Mr. Ber. sheweth and as in another ere long shal be plainly manifested c. First Mr Ber. setteth down barely this as our position and doctrine not nameâ—ng place or boâ—k where it is written nor the proofs that we make of it but peremâ—torily sayth we cannot proue it Whereas it hath in many books by many playn doctrines of scripture been euidently proued so as Mr Bern. and all his fellow priests could neuer yet make a playn and direct answer And if when book is writen after booke no refutation be made but a bare deneyall as here M. Bern. sayth we cannot proue it I say the ministers of Engl. may so turne away any thing but with what credit or conscience the wise will judge Secondly for M. Bernards reason it selfe wanteth a good constitution being to confuâ—edly set down as a man knowes not what he makes the constitution of a church or how he would conclude that their church is constituted aright He pretends the word to be the Constitution of a church whereas the scriptures that he quoteth and reason it selfe might teach him that the word is the instrument or meanes of Constituting conseruing the church constituted so also be the sacraments But as the constitution of a common wealth or of a city is a gathering and vniting of people togither into a ciuill polity so the Constitution of the common wealth of Israel as the church is called and of the city of God the new Ierusalem is a gathering and vniting of people into a diuiue politie the form of which polity is Order as the heathens acknowledged calling polity an order of a city which Order is requisite in all actions and administrations of the church as the Apostle * sheweth and specially specially in the constitution thereof so that next vnto faith in God it â—s to be esteemed most necessary for all holy societies Wherefore Paâ—l rejoyced for these two things in the Church at Colâ—ssâ— euen their order their stedfast faith in Christ. Now whereas to the constitâ—tioÌ„ of a châ—rch there belong â— a people as the mattâ—r whereof and 2 a calling gathering and vniting togither as the form whereof the church consisteth in both these the Constitution of the Church of Engl. hath in sundry treatises been â—roued false For with them all sorts of profane worldly and wicked â—ersons are receiued as the matter whereof
the church is builded contrary to the â—layn and manifest doctrine of the scriptures Leu. 20.24 1 Kin 8 53. Act. 2.40 and 19.8 â— Iohn 17.16 2 Cor. 6.14 â—7 18. The form and order of their vâ—iting is alsâ— strange for these profane people euen all persons in a famâ—ly anâ— all families in a parish are vnited into one parish church as it is called not voluntarily â—as ought to be in the true châ—rch but by constreynt not by any due profeâ—sion of repentance from â—ead workâ— and faith in God but by the priests readinâ— a Confession absolution and such like popish stâ—ff as is to be seen in their seruice book not vnder the guidance of Chrâ—sts officers but of a Parson Vicar Curate or other like creature of the Bishops who in many places can but read English vnto them And this with the other Parâ—shes of the Dioceâ—â—e so gathered also are vnited into one See or Dâ—ocesâ—â—â— church vnder a Lord Bishop and his Coâ—rtiers and all the Dioces into two Proâ—inciall churches the Prouinciall into one nationall church called the Church of England ouer all which there is a most reuerend Father and spirituall Lord Archbushop Primate and Metropolitan vnder whome al Bishops and Priests of the land are subiect and all people and parishes in the land bound to obey the dead canons and decrees which he the Ach Lord with his brethren of the gouerning clergie agree of in their repreâ—atiue church in the Conuocation howse if once the Ciuill Magistrate giue life vnto them This forme and order of a church is not to be found in Chrâ—sts Testament but receiued it is from the church of Rome by heritage or succession as the Papists boast of to the dishonour of Protestants when they say A religion c. that distinguished the multitude into pâ—rishes â—roportioÌ„ed â—he tithes annâ—xed thâ— Glebeland fonÌ„ded the Bishopricks â—mitted the Dioceses c So as the mother is the daughter is false in her câ—stitutioÌ„ though in the doctrin which she profeseth she is far better purer theÌ„ that whoremother of Rome The discussing of thes things as Mr Bern. refereth to other places books so also do I seing in thiâ— place â—e hath brought nothing of weight to proue his coÌ„stitutioÌ„ For the scriptâ—re that he alegeth the 3. things that he colecteth from theÌ„ do make against his purâ—ose The word is not by Christs mâ—nistery riâ—htly reached applyed to the people but vnsufferabley abused to the maintenance or the confusion and idolatries that are among them the sacraments are highly profaâ—ed and prostituted to the most vngodly and thir seed and popishly administred and the externall profession which the people make is by constreynt and therefore nought worth besides it is corrupt and idolatrous being a mixed profession partly of the truth of God partly of their own inuentions as appeareth by their Communion book Canons and the like Our second error should be that we hold their Constitution a real idol and so them idolaters To confute this Mr Ber. sayth that he hâ—th perused in any scriptures and can see none that take an idol or idolaters in any such sâ—nse agaâ—n that Marlorat mentioneth 47. idols and not one of them in â—he sâ—nse Whether this article be of Mr Bernards own forginâ— or where he hath had it I cannot tell his reader must take all of his credâ— for he lets not down his author As for his confutation hereof it is very slender that becaâ—se he seeth it not or Maâ—lorat nameth it not therefore it is no idol For it is no sure position that Mr Bernard seeth all that â—he scriptures teach and both he and Marlorat may as soon number the hayres of their heads aâ— all the idols that are in the world Wel therefore yet may â—t be a real idol for oâ—ght that this man hath sayd to saue it And if it be a false constitâ—tion as before is proâ—ed set vp in stead of a true what is it better then a very idol In the end he tâ—rneth and renteth vs for making oâ—r own constitution as he sayth an idol or goddesse and feighneth that we may say Great is the Goddesse Constitution great is Diana of the Bâ—â—â—nists Bâ—t seing this is but a reâ—roch of a scorner and the reproch reacheth vnto Christ himselfe who hath appoynted the frame order and constitution of hâ—s own châ—rch which we haue laboured for I leaue him for this calumniation vnto his rebuke who will teach him one day no more to blaspheme And whether may we think tendeth the inuectiue of this vayn man who thus skoffeth at the Constitution of Christs church but to bring in a mere ataxie or confâ—sion worse then was at Babels tower-building for take away the orderly framing and constituting of a church and there will be but a Tohu as the scripture speaketh a rude indigest heap or confute Chaos more beseeming the wild beasts of the wood then any humane much lesâ—e diuine polâ—ty That such as are not of a particular constituted church to weet such a one as ours is are no subiects of Christs kingdome Neyther is this position set downe in our words to my knowledge neyther doth Mr Bâ—rnard take away but confirme rather the thing that we hold for he granteth that they offend God which may and doe not ordinarily hauing 〈◊〉 canes offred liue in a church rightly constituted and we grant that many of Christs subiects for want of meanes doe not liue in a true constituted church If therefore he were not a caviller he would not haue reckned this among our errors That all nor in our way are without and we apply against them in Engl. 1 Cor. 5 12 Eph. 2 12. The first part of this position you must impuâ—e to Mr Bernards charity who wâ—ll needs frame our assertions for vs because he thinkes we cannot speake for our selues we might leaue it vnto him to frame an answer also But if he would let vs tel what we hold it is that all not in the way â—f Châ—ist are without and if this be an error let him make the most of it The applying of those scriptures against them he must be content to bear til he or his brethren can proue theÌ„selues a true church for though there bâ— great differences of peoples professing religion some with more truth â—ome with lesse yet all not wâ—thin Christs church are without as thâ— Aâ—ostle speaketh Mr Bernards exception that those places are meant of sâ—ch as neuer professed Christ at all is childish why doth he not except aâ—aâ—nâ—t the holy Ghost himselfe who apâ—lieth against the false Christâ—ans of the Râ—mish Church words and sâ—eaches meant first of heathen Babylon that profeâ—â—ed not God or Christ at all His boasting of the word sacraments effects and deliuerances are before in this traatise taken away And Mr Bernards proofs are but a begging of the question which he blameth in otherâ— as
reâ—roched the Protestants as labouring to bring all things vnder the rule of the rash vnconstant people and vnlearned multitude and to make the church democraticall and popular because every one of the people by his priuate spirit is supreme iudge and head in matters of religion Our different judgement and practise from the church of Engl. wher all â—y men as they call them are forbidden all speaking or expounding of the word in the publik assemblies and where a Bishop Chancellor or Commissary hath power to excommunicate by a Latin writ c. Our difference also and dislike of the Presbyteries practise whereby people are excluded and depriued of a great part of their Christian liberty and benefit thereby is in other books largely treated of with scriptures reasons many which M Bern. neyther orderly handleth nor soundly confuteth as the wise reader may see but ignorantly and confusedly shuffleth them ouer running into by matters and vniust calumniations I will end therefore with the words of one of his fellow ministers who touching this poynt of Church gouernment writeth much more soundly then by Mr. Bern. in his blindenes hath done Mr Iacob I mean which sayth It is childish and without all wit to cry out aganst vs â—us our adueâ—saries doe Popularity Anarchie c. for our so wel grounded and so approued an assertion That the sinne of one man publâ—ckly and obstinately stood in bâ—ing not reformed nor the offender cast out â—oth sâ— pâ—llute the whole congregation that none may commuâ—â—cate with hâ— same in any of the holy â—hings of God though it be a church râ—ghtly conâ—â—ituted till the party be excommunâ—cated I deney agayn this to be eyther our iudgement or practise Mr. Bern. sayth the formâ—r position is the ground of this and so it seemeth he câ—lumniating vs in the forâ—er thouâ—ht he might doe likeweise in this We professe and haue long since publâ—shed that none is to separate for fâ—â—lts corruâ—tioÌ„s which may so long as the Church coÌ„sistâ—th of mâ—rtall men will fall out and arisâ— among them but by due order to sâ—â—k râ—dresse thâ—reof Now that euery Chrâ—stian not onely may bâ— tought to rebuke his neighbour for sinne we haâ—e playn lawes both â—n the old Testament and the new Leuit. 19.17 Luk. 17.3 That sinners not repenting are after the second admonition to be signified vnto the church is also Christs ordinance Mat. 18 15.17 But what â—f â—he church will not cast him out I answer Synns are eyther conâ—rouertible or manifest If controuertible and dâ—ubtfâ—ll men ought to bear one with anothers different judgement if they doe not but any for this make a breach or separation they syn But if the sinne be manifest as for example a man is conuict of adultery blasphemy theft or the like and the church will not rebuke him nor cast him out but suffer him obstinate and impenitent in his wickednes and plead for him agaâ—nst such us call vpon them for iudgemâ—nt then are all such abettors of the wicked sinners themselues and that in a high degree as th' Apostle noteth Rom. 1 31 the whole lump is leuened 1 Cor. 5 1 6. c. and now not that one mans sinne but the sinne of them all is that which polluteth them for they fauour and iustify a wicked man more then God therefore woe is vnto them and Solomon sayth He that sayth to the wicked thou art righteous him shall the people curse and the multitude shall abhorr him Prou 24 24 If M Bern think the sinne is the lesse because a church maynteyns it he is much deceiued evill the more common it is the worse â—t is because God is more dishonoured and mens sowles more endangered If he think men should regard and reuerence the church in this case the law teacheth every man not to follow the many or the mighty to doe euill nor agree in a controuersie to decline after many and ouerthrow the right The â—round of all this is playn in Gods law if any one of the people sinned against any of the commandements of the Lord and one shewed him his sinne which he had committed he was to bring his sacrifice a testification of his repentance If a ruler sinned or the high priest himselfe they were to doe likewise If the whole Congregation sinned the like law was for them God respected no persons but if they that sinned were greater or moe in number they were so farr from being sauoured as they had the greater sacrifice inioyned them a priuate man offred a shee-goat a ruler a hee-goat the high Priest and the Congregation a yong bâ—llock These lawes were giuen to all sorts of persons for all manner sinns‘ and the law was agayn repeated and stablished from that day forward throughout their generations Num. 15.22.23 c. But if any man despised this law and sinned with a high hand the same blasphemed the Lord and was to be cut off from among his peoâ—le Num. 15.30.31 Now further that the whol congregation taking Part with wicked men in syn after due admonition are all defiled and subiect to like iudgement we haue a playn example in the whole Tribe of Beniamin where in Gibeâ—h one of their towns filthines was committed the Tribe was called vpon to deliuer thâ—se wicked men to death that evill might be put away from Israel â—â—t when they would not deliuer them all the other tribes warred against that trâ—be and almost rooted out every man of the same Likeweise the trâ—bes of Israel in an other case sayd to some of their brethren seeing ye rebel to day against the Lord euen tomorrow he wil be wroth with all the Congregation of Israel Did not Achan sinne c. and wrath fell on all the congregation of Israel and this man alone perished not in his wickednes What Mr Bern. seeth or how he readeth the scriptures I cannot tel but if he knew the contagion of sinne or guilt of the same he would neuer haue writien as he hath done Now where he pleadeth that men should not for the offender refreyn the holy things of God abhâ—rr the sacrifices c. We grant it The holy things are alwayes to be reuerenced Gods house and sacrifices frequented when we may without sinne But we deny such an assembly to be Gods church as with a high hand sinneth and blasphemeth the Lord. The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination And it cannot be said that any holy thing is lawfully administred in such a society where all agree together to mayntein open iniquity and doe despise the word of the Lord calling them to repentance If they doe not thus we hold it not lawfull to separate from them nor in any weise at any time till all holy and orderly meanes be vsed for their reclayming That euery of their assemblies are false churches This we hold indeed being
vnlesse perhaps he hath blessed some of their youthes with the Sacrament of Confirmation how many of their soules he hath conuerted yea let them say whether euer he saw their faceâ— As for the Bishops Deputies the parisâ—h priests many of them are dumb by nature and cannot preach many are made dumb by their spirituall Lords power and silenced for disobedâ—ence so preaching wexeth geazon and people perish for want of Instruction In the mean tyme this painful Clergie feedeth the Lay weekly with their mattings Euensong and Homilies and sometimes in a year with sermon and reading the Bishops canons They discipline their notorious sinners with reading curses and Comminations out of the pulpit till the Lent penance which is much to be wished be restored agayn they solemnize the holy dayes of Angels and of Saincts they giue ech man the sacrament at Easter deuoutly vpon his knees they baptise with water and a signe of the crosse in the aâ—er they wed their parishioners with a ring teach the man to worship his wife in the name of the Father and of the Son of the holy Ghost they church the women after childbirth they visiâ— the sick and absolue him from all his sinns and howsel him with a Communion and last of all they bury the dead in sure and certayn hope of resurrection to eternall life And this is yenough for priests to doe in the country parishes but in the Cathedrall churches where Bishops Deanes and other great Doctors do reside there the Queristeâ—s and Organ-pipes make sweeter melody Mr. Bern. confesseth that the Lord onely prescribes the duties to be done in euery distinct â—ffice now he that knowes not these dutiess to belong to Christs ministers or these works to be a faythfull performance of ministeriall office let him read Mr Bernards book for there he hath quoted many scriptures the end of all which is to raise an euident proof of the truth of their ministery and administration as if one should cite the second commandement for to vphold idolatrie The effects of their administration in conuerting sowles is but a vayne boast as their idolatrous estate with the lamentable ignorance and profanenes of the people every where sheweth The reasons brought by others for Mr Bern bringeth none to perswade such effects are before in this treatise answered It maketh also against the estate of this church and ministery for if these preachers haue conuerted and wrought faith in some of their hearers then it followeth that before that conuersion they were infidels yet were they of the church and had this ministery set ouer them as all men know Which how it can stand with the râ—les of Gods word hath neuer yet bene shewed The example which Mr Bern. allegeth of th' Apostle 1 Cor 9.1.2 helpeth him nothing For Apostles were sent to conuert heathens but Pastors are set for to feed conuerted Christians And the Priests of England challenge to be Pastors I ween and not Apostles Agayn the work and seal of Pauls Apostleship was seen in Corinth by separating the beleeuers from infidels and gâ—therâ—ng the Saints onely into the communion of the church vnder the officers giâ—en of Christ but in England the vnbâ—leeuers and wicked were receiued and are reteyned in the church So that Mr. Bern. is but a â—alse Apostle as his work shewes if he be any at all But in the end he tels vs we forget to iustifie the lawfulnes of our own ministers who are made â—iâ—istâ—rs â—y sâ—ch as are no ministers contrary to the constant practise of the church of God from the dayes of Adam hitherto c. In which dispute Mr. Bern. teacheth playn apostasie from the Gospell unto Poperie from whâ—ch he deriueth the minâ—stery of his church of Engl. For seing all the examples that he allegeth from scriptures are of Diuine persons and approued ministers of the true church and comming to his church of England he fetcheth her ministery out of the Popish church and from the Prelates thereof it cannot be if his last words agree with his first but the poâ—ish church is a true church and their prelates true ministers Otherweise hâ—s reasoning is absurd to say God ordeyned Adam Moses odeyned Aaron Christ ordeyned the Apostles the Apostles ordeyned orther mâ—nisters in churches therefore Antichrist of Rome his synagoâ—ue of Satan hâ—s eldest sonâ—es the Prelates must or may ordeyn miniâ—ters in the church of Christ. If this be a good consequence let al men iudge if â—â—â—s it be not then Mr. Bern. holdeth the popish church and the â—opish ministers true ministers and so himselfe and his church of England must needs be schismatiks for leauing that church of Rome When he hath cleared himselfe of this his absurd doctrine then if he cannot see that the church of Christ hath power to ordeyn her own ministers it shal be shewed hâ—m by the scriptures Tâ—ll then what should we do folowing of a wauering reed whome we cannot tell by his writing whether he be Papist or Protestant And that the reader may see into what an intricate Labyrâ—nth the ministers of England haue brought themselues about this matter of their ministery by writing as they haue doâ— both of the Papists and of us I will set down a Papist argument against them from which how handsomely they can defend themselues I would fayn see There came out in anno 1602 a book called A detection of diuers notable vntruthes c. wherein the author hauing to deal wit Mr Sâ—â—cliff who as he sayth had reasoned thus The true church is a societie of faithfull people vnder lawfull Pastors c But the Church of Rome hath long wanted true Pastors and Bishops for the Romish Bishops haue no authority â—r missioÌ„ but froÌ„ the Pope to whome also they swear feally but he hath no authority to send them or ordeyn them â—eing himselfe no Bishop c. This argumeÌ„t of Mr Sutcliffs the Papist retorteth vâ—oÌ„ theÌ„ thus The true church of Christ hath alwayes true Pastors and Bishops but the English Congregation wanteth true Priests and Bishops Therefore the English congreagation 〈◊〉 not the true church of Christ. The fiâ—st proposition sayth the Papist he must not deny being of his own making c. The 2 proposition is apparant according to Mr Sutcliffs diuinity For most certaine it is that their first Bishops receiued their orders and consecration from our catholik Bishops as his brother Bel confesseth Suruey pag. 201. And the thing it selfe speaketh seing when Lâ—ther begun there was not any protestant Bishop or Priest c. And if Mr Sutâ—liffe dare deny that their Bishops were câ—nsâ—cratedlâ— ours then let him name who they were that did lay hands vpon Mr Parker the first of Cant. that deriued not their mission authority and consecration from the Bishop of Rome Certayn it is thâ—t â—yther none at all can be named or els none bâ—sides therefore if our Bishops be