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A19668 Fryer Iohn Frauncis of Nigeon in Fraunce A replication to that lewde aunswere, which Fryer Iohn Frauncis (of the Minimes order in Nigeon nigh vnto Paris in Fraunce) hath made to a letter, that his mother caused to be written, and sent to him out of England, in August. 1585. Wherevnto is annexed an aunswere, to that which the same fryer hath written to his father and mother: in defence, and to the prayse of that religion, which he dooth nowe professe: and to the disprayse and defacing of that religion, which is nowe professed in Englande. Whereof the fryer himselfe was a scholler and professor, vntill the yeere 1583. which was the 18. yeere of hys age. VVritten by Robert Crowley. Anno. 1586. Crowley, Robert, 1518?-1588.; Debnam, Samuel. 1586 (1586) STC 6091; ESTC S109119 122,478 144

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the Forte of our fayth you séeme to haue determined to batter foure of the especiall Bulworkes thereof Namely the denyall of Prayers for the dead The denial of works to be meritorious of saluation The denyall of the reall presence of the body and blood of Christ in the blessed Sacrament of the Altar And the denying that there be any moe Sacramēts then two To batter these Bulworkes you will not bring any Ordinaunce taken out of the Storchouse of the holie Fathers but you wyll vse that great forcible Ordinaunce that is to be had in the Storehouse of the holye Bible and therewith you wil batter and beate down the strongest parts of our Forte of Faith Against the first Bulworke you plant a péece of Ordinaunce taken out of the 12. Chap. of the seconde booke of Machabees Against the seconde Bulworke 2. péeces of Ordinaunce one taken out of the Epistle of S. Iames and the other out of the 25. Chapter of S. Mathewes Gospell Against the third you doo plant foure péeces of Ordinaunce one taken out of the 26. Chap. of S. Mathew one other taken out of the 14. Chapter of S. Marke the third out of the 22. of S. Luke and the fourth you take out of the sixt Chap. of S. Iohns Gospell But against the fourth Bulworke you bring no Ordinaunce at all neither out of the Storehouse of the Bible nor out of the Storehouse of the holie Doctors of the Catholicke Church Onely you say that it is an heresie condemned long ago But let vs sée of what force these péeces of Ordinaunce be The first séemeth a farre off to be a double Cannon of great force But at hand it is founde to be but a sillie Base embossed and made great by cunning clowting together of Paste made of paper in the forme of a double Cannon with the colour of Brasse cunningly layde vpon it Who would not thinke that this were a Cannon of great force when he shall heare the Captaine himselfe say I will turne you to the Bible it selfe which if you dare either deny c. you shalbe no longer Heretickes but plaine Infidels Looke I beséeche you c. A Captaine of the Jewish Armie made a collection c. Yea and the latter wordes of the Chapter are these Sancta ergo salubris est cogitatio c. And tell me not nowe I pray you a tale of a tubbe c. Yea and last of all well may it be saide of you Aure audietis non intelligetis c. But let vs drawe néerer to this terrible péece of Ordinaunce that we may sée of what force it is First because Fryer John dooth charge vs that we admitt not the words which the holy Doctors of the Catholicke Church haue spoken I require him to reade that which S. Ierome hath written in his preface vpon the bookes of Salomon immediatly after those wordes that I put you in minde of when I answered to that sentence that you alledged out of the booke of Wisedome Chap. 11. S. Ierome writeth thus Sicut ergo Judeth Tobiae Machabeorum libros legit quidem Ecclesia sed eos inter canonicas scripturas non recipit sic baec duo volumina legat ad edificationem plebis non ad authoritatem ecclesiasticorum dogmatum confirmandam Euen as the Church dooth indéede reade the bookes of Iudith and Tobias and of the Machabees but dooth not receiue them amongst y e Canonicall Scriptures euen so she may reade these two bookes meaning the booke of Wisedome and Ecclesiasticus to the edifying of the people but not for the confirming of Ecclesiasticall doctrine Loe Master Frier John one of the holie Doctors of the Catholicke Church hath tolde you that this Scripture was not written by the holie Ghost and yet I trowe you will not say that he hath tolde you a tale of a tubbe nor that he hath belyed the holy Ghost or that the saying of the holie Esay may be well applied vnto him But if your selfe would vouchsafe to reade the last lynes of this seconde Booke of Machabees I thinke you woulde not thinke this booke to be of such authority as hetherto you haue in these writings séemed to thinke For in the wordes written in those lynes the author or writer of this booke dooth shewe himself to be in doubt whether he haue doone so well as himselfe wished to doo and in case he haue not doone so well he craueth pardon of his Readers and vseth a similitude to perswade him to pardon him Which is a thing all together vnséemely to be doone by the holie Ghoste Yea I suppose your selfe woulde account it blasphemie in him that wold say that the holy Ghost may doubt whether ought that he doth bée well doone or not And if you will take the paines to reade the latter part of the 14. Chapter of this booke you shall finde there a great commendation giuen to one Razias for that he murthered himselfe which commendation could not come from y e holy Ghost For such murder is not onelie contrarie to the expresse commaundement of GOD but it is contrarie to nature also Yea and I doo yet thinke that though you doo thinke that you doo deserue much at Gods hande by whypping your selfe with your discipline as your selfe doo report yet you are not perswaded that you shoulde deserue more if either by whipping your selfe or otherwise you shoulde kill your selfe Moreouer if your selfe be not of that number that Esay the Prophet speaketh of in the sixt Chapter of his booke cited by your selfe then there is hope that you will not sticke to reade weigh the circumstaunces of the place in the 12. of this second booke of the Machabees that you doo so much vrge vs with In the text that goeth immediatlie before that which you doo beséeche vs to looke vpon the Historian hath saide that after the Armie of Gorsias was by the mighty power of God put to flight Iudas hauing gathered his Army together came to the Cittie Odolla And when the seauenth day was come and they were purified according to the custome they did in the same place spende the time of the Sabaothe And the next day following Iudas came with his company to take vp the dead bodies of them that were slaine and to bury thē with their fathers in the buriall places that belonged to them And they founde vnder the garments of them that were flayne certain of the gifts that had béene offered to the Idolles that were at Iamnia from which the Lawe commaunded the Iewes to abstaine It was therefore made manifest to all men that this was the cause wherefore they were slayne The whole company did therefore commende the iust iudgment of the Lord which had made manifest the déedes that had béene hidde and kept in secrete And so they gaue themselues to prayer and besought God that the fault which was committed might be blotted out of memory But the moste valiant man Iudas exhorted
in y e right vnderstanding of these wordes according to the councell of the Apostle S. Iames Chap. 1. If any of you doo lacke wisedome let him aske it of God which giueth to all men indifferently c. Yea and consider the wordes of the Apostle Paule to the Romanes Chap. 1. Mutauerunt gloriam incorruptibilis Dei in similitudinem corruptibilis hominis volucrum quadrupedum serpentium Propter quod tradidit illos Deus in desideria cordis eorum in immunditiam vt contumelijs afficerent corpora sua in semetipsis qui commutauerunt veritatem Dei in mendacium et coluerunt et seruierunt creaturae potius quàm creatori qui est benedictus in secula Amen They haue turned the glorye of the incorruptible God in to the similitude of a corruptible man and of flying fowles and of fourefooted beastes and of créeping serpents Wherefore God gaue them ouer vnto their owne harts desire into vncleannesse that they might defile their owne bodies euen in thēselues which had chaunged the truth of God into a lye and had worshipped and serued the creature more then the creator which is blessed for euer Amen Consider I say these words of the Apostle Paule with the rest that follow Propterea tradidit illos Deus in passiones ignominiae Nam faeminae eorum immutauerunt naturalem vsum in eum vsum quiest contra naturam Similiter autem masculi relicto naturali vsu faeminae exarserunt in desiderijs suis in inuicem masculi in masculos turpitudinem operantes mercedem quam oportuit erroris sui in semetipsis recipientes c. Wherefore God gaue them ouer to shamefull lustes For theyr women chaunged theyr naturall vse into that which is contrary to nature In like manner the men also leauing the naturall vse of the woman burned in their lustes or filthy desires one towards an other men with men wrought filthines receiuing in themselues the rewarde of theyr error which in Gods iustice was due vnto them Consider Samuell I pray thee euen in the tender bowels of Christ Jesus in whom I doo yet loue thée and do hope by the helpe of his spirite to winne thée to him againe Consider I say these wordes of the Apostle And vndoubtedlie thou shalt sée that that Romish Churche which calleth herselfe Catholike is héerein plainly painted out Haue they not chaunged and doo they not still chaunge the glory of the incorruptible God into the similitude of a corruptible manne When they haue set forth and doo still set forth the maiesty of God to the viewe of mans eye by the Image of an olde man made of Tymber stone or other matter or wrought by y e cunning of Painters or Embrotherers Doth not Esay the Prophet deride these dooings both in the forty and in the foure forty Chapters of hys booke And doth not the Prophet Dauid deride thē in y e Psalme 115. after the Hebrews account but after your account 113. The auncient interpreters of the Scriptures doo with one consent condemne the making and hauing of the Image of the diuine maiesty And yet that Romish Catholike Church dare still make it haue it in their Churches and fall downe before it Hath not God in Exo. 20. Expresly forbidden the making and worshipping of all manner of Images And howe dare any man make or worshipp them or say that that Church is Christes Church that doth both make thē worship them and persecute those Christians that refuse to doo as they doo Waie well the words of the Apostle when he sayth That for this cause that is for turning his glorye into the similitude of a corruptible man God hath giuen them ouer to theyr owne harts desire● c. Theyr women haue turned the naturall vse into y t which is contrary to nature and the men hauing left the naturall vse of the woman as you say you haue vowed to doo haue burned in desire one towards an other and men haue wrought filthines wyth men When GOD opened the hart of King Henry the eyght and gaue him some sight of the truth he caused the Monkes the Fryers and the Nunnes that then were in his Realme to bee examined and by due and politike examination they were found to haue doone euen as S. Paule writeth héere And when God shall open the eyes of that Noble Prince that nowe raigneth in Fraunce or the eyes of some Noble Prince that héereafter shall haue the gouernment of that noble Realme of Fraunce wherein you nowe liue vndoubtedly your secrete filthines will bee founde out and your hypocrits visoures will be plucked of your faces you coates of counterfeited holines will be plucked of your backs and you wyl be turned abroade into the worlde as our Hypocrites were in the daies of our King Henrie that you may learne to laboure and hy your owne laboure to eate your owne breade and not to be fedde anie longer by the labours of other men Thus much I haue thought méete to write concerning the first part of your vowe which is to liue in wyneles chastity The second part of your vowe is pouertie To be poore to haue nothing not so much as the Garments on your back for your own This part of your vowe was altogether néedeles For since you were borne you neuer gaue your selfe to any such exercise that you might be able thereby to haue anie thing of your owne But you haue béene fedde and clothed and in all points sustayned by the labours of your poore father and mother and other that haue hoped to see a better proofe of you then nowe is seene and therefore extended their fréendlie liberalitie to you But now you say you haue not one fréend in all Englande or at the least way amongst vs that bare all the burden of your education and bringing vppe euen vnto that time wherein you did verie vnduetifully giue vs the slip not once bidding vs farewell They therefore that haue nowe caught you doo not knowe what a Jewell they shall haue of you for it is like enough that after they shall haue bestowed enough too much vpon you you will render vnto them such thankes as you haue rendred vnto vs. It shalbe good for them therefore in time to looke vppon and to folow that Rule that S. Paule wyshed the Thessalonians to follow 2. Thes 3. Si quis non vult operari nec manducet If any man will not worke let him not eate But you will aunswere me and say We doo laboure for we rise euerie night at midnight and we sing Mattins before the blessed Sacrament of the Alter we arise againe at sixe of the clocke in the morning and we sing two or thrée high masses euerie day c. But let me tell you what I haue hearde reported concerning Frauncis of whom the Gray Friers doo holde That Frauncis was as the report goeth a good man and gaue himselfe to sore laboure in repayring of high waies that
them they are false Prophets destruction hangeth ouer their heads and hell gapeth for them They robbe Christe of his glory They rob Christians of their greatest comfort They suppresse and holde vnder true Religion They sette vp and maintaine Idolatry and superstition And to speake all in one worde they vpholde Antichrist and his whole kingdome But to returne to our purpose You say that we say that there be but two Sacraments an heresie condemned long agoe But you tell vs not when where nor by whom Therefore as we haue sayd so we doo say and so we wyll say by Gods helpe til you can prooue the contrary that Christ hath ordeined but two sacramēts to be vsed by Christians Your saying that it is an heresie condemned long agoe is but a flashe of false fire giuen to a péece of Ordinaunce vncharged and therefore can not hurt the Bulwork wherin we stande and doo denie that Christ hath ordeined any moe sacraments then two namely Baptisme and the supper of y e Lord. In his thyrd booke of Christian doctrine and in the 9. Chap. there of S. Austen wryteth thus concerning this matter Hoc verò tempore posteaquam resurrectione domini nostri Iesu Christi manifestissimum iudicium nostrae libertatis illuxit nec eorum quidem signorum quae iam intelligimus operatione graui onerati sumus sed quaedam pauca pro multis cademque factu facillima et intellectu angustissima obsernatione castissima ipse dominus apostolica tradidit disciplina sicuti est Baptismi sacramentum celebratio corporis sanguinis domini Quae vnusquisque cum percipit quo referantur imbutus agnoscit vt ea non carnali seruitate sed spirituali potius libertate veneretur Vt enim litteram sequi et signa pro rebus quae ijs significantur accipere seruilis infirmitatis est ita inutiliter signa interpretari male vagantie erroris est But in these dayes sith by the resurrection of our Lorde Iesus Christ a most manifest signe or shewe of our liberty hath appeared wee are not loaden with the heauye working of those signes that we doo already vnderstande But in stéede of many the Lorde and the Apostolicke discipline hath giuen vnto vs a certain small number and the same very easie to be doone and most excellent in signification and most pure in obseruation as is the Sacrament of Baptisme and the celebration of the body and bloud of the Lorde which euery man that is instructed doth when hee receiueth them knowe to what ende they are referred that he may reuerence them not in a carnall seruitude but rather in a spirituall liberty For euen as to followe the Letter and to take the signes for those thinges that be signified by them is a poynt of seruile infirmity euen so to enterpret y e signes vnprofitably is a point of error that wandreth euill fauouredly or wickedly In these wordes of S. Austen we haue occasion to note two thinges especially One is that hee did not knowe of moe Sacraments then two instituted by our Sauiour Christ and commaunded by him and his Apostles to be vsed in his Church The other is that it is a poynt of fleshly seruitude and not of Christian liberty for a man to follow the letter or litterall sence in those spéeches in the Scriptures that doo concerne those two Sacraments in such sorte that he wyll take the signes that are spoken of for the thinges signified by them A man may meruell that any of your sorte that knoweth these words of S. Austen can allowe him for a Catholicke and yet condemne vs as Heretickes in thys poynt wherein we doo both affyrme and denie euen as he hath doone manye hundrethes of yéeres before vs. But let vs sée yet one other place of S. Austen In an Epistle that he wrote to one Ianuarius which is in number 118. S. Austen wryteth thus Primò itaque tenere te volo quod est huius disputationis caput Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum sicut ipse in Euangelio loquitur lent iugo suo nos subdidisse sarcinae leui Vnde sacramentis numero paucissimis obseruatione facillimis significatione praestantissimis societatem noui populi colligauit sicuti est baptismus trinitatis nomine consecratus communio corporis sanguinis ipsius si quid aliud in canonicis scripturis commendatur exceptis ijs quae seruitutem populi veteris pro congruentia cordis illorum prophetici temporis onerabāt quae et in quinque libris Mosis leguntur Fyrst of all therefore my wyll is that you shoulde vnderstande what the chéefe poynt of thys disputation is That is that our Lorde Iesus Christ hath as himselfe speaketh in the Gospell made vs subiecte to his owne easie yoke and light burden Whereby he hath syed together the society of the newe people with Sacraments that are fewest in number easiest in obseruing and most excellent in signification as is Baptisme consecrated in the name of the Trinity and y e communion of his body and bloud and if there by any other sacrament that is in the Canonicall Scriptures commended except those sacraments which did encrease the weight of bondage of the olde people as was méete for theyr hartes and for the propheticall time and which are reade in the fiue Bookes of Moses In these wordes of S. Austen we haue occasion to note that his meaning was to certifie Ianuarius to whom he wrote this Epistle of that thing which our Lord Iesus Christ taught in that which standeth written in the eleuenth of saynt Mathewes Gospell concerning the easines of the yoke and the lightnes of the burden that Christ Iesus hath layde vpon Christians And for the explaning of hys meaning he sayth that our Sacraments are very fewe in number very easie to be obserued and most excellent in signification And hee nameth onely Baptisme and the supper of the Lorde which he calleth as we commonly doo the communion of the body and bloode of our Sauiour Christ And furder hee referreth him to the Canonicall scriptures as aduising him to receiue no moe Sacraments then he shall finde to be commended in them And least he might take occasion by those words to thinke that Christians ought to be circumcised and to obserue the sacrifices and ceremonies of Moses Lawe he excepteth all such Sacraments as were layde vpon the people of the olde Lawe by any thing that is wrytten in any of the fiue bookes of Moses So that by these wordes of thys learned Father saynt Austen it appeareth as by the other afore rehearsed that he was not perswaded that Christ Iesus our Lord hath layde vpon vs Christians that heauye burden of seauen Sacraments which your holy father the Pope layeth vpon you and vpon all hys Antichristian flocke Confirmation Order Repentance or as you call it Penaunce Matrimonie and the Visitation of the sicke which you call Extreme vnction we vse as good profitable and necessary vsages in