and that by your owne arguments and inductions as we shal hereafter euidently declare So that nowe M. Fekenham may seeme to haue good cause much more then before to rest in the sayed stayes and scruples I may not here let passe M. Horne that you cal this saiyng In maleuolam animam non introibit sapientia a sentence of the holy Ghost That it is no lesse we gladly confesse it But how dare you so pronounce of that saiyng being written in the booke of wisedome That booke you wot wel your brethern of Geneua accompt for no Canonical Scripture at al suche as onelye are the sentences of the holye Ghoste to speake absolutely and proprely but in the notes before that booke and certaine other which they cal Apocrypha doe call them onely bookes proceedinge of godlye men not otherwise of force but as they agree with the Canonicall Scriptures or rather are grounded thereon In whiche sence not onely those bookes but the writings also of the Fathers yea and of al other men may be by your sentence the sentence of the holy Ghoste And Brentius likewise in his Prolegomenis agreeth with the Geneuian notes against M. Horne Thus these fellowes iarre alwayes amonge them selues and in all their doctrines fal into such points of discorde that in place of vniforme tuninge they ruffle vs vppe a blacke Sanctus as the Prouerbe is Quo teneam vultus mutantem Prothea nodo The .9 Diuision Pag 8. a. M. Horne You require a proufe hereof that an Emperoure or Empresse King or Queene maie claime or take vppon them anie suche gouernment meaning as the Queenes Maiestie our Soueraigne doth novv chalenge and take vpon her in Spirituall or Ecclesiasticall causes .33 For ansvveare I say thei ought to take vppon them suche gouernment therefore thei maie laufullie doe it The former part is found true by the whole discourse of the holie Scriptures both of the olde and nevv Testament by the testimonie of the Doctours in Christes Church by the Generall Councels and by the practise of Christes Catholique Churche throughout al Christendome The .7 Chapter opening a plaine Contradiction of M. Hornes MAister Fekenham as well at his abode with you as sins his returne to the Tower at such time as he enioyed the free liberty thereof hath as I certaīly vnderstād declared to som of his friends that in your conference with him for a resolute answere to al the said scruples expressed in al the foure points ye did much lament that the right meaning of the Othe had not bene in ceason opened and declared vnto him When the only lack of the right vnderstanding therof hath ben the cause of such staies Wheras the Quenes Ma. meaning in that Oth is farre otherwise then the expresse words are as they lye verbatim like as it dothe well appeare by her highnes interpretation made therof in her iniunctions Of the whiche matter we shall be occasioned to entreate more at large herafter But now after two yeres breathing ye frame an other answere quite iarring from the first affirming that the Queene must take vpon her such kind of regiment without any mollifiyng or restraint And this ye will as ye say auouch by Scriptures Fathers Coūcels ād the cōtinual practise of the Church Both your saied answeres being so cōtrary one to the other what certaine and sure knowledge may M. Fekenham by right reason take and gather thereof to his cōtentation and satisfaction of his mind in these matters when by such diuersitie of answeres what other thing els may he iustly thinke then thus with him selfe That if you after so manye and so faire promises failed to open the very trueth vnto him in your firste aunsweare what better assurance should he conceiue of your truth in this your second answere For if by dissimulation the truthe of the matter was couertly hidde frō him in the first answere what better truth may he boldly look for in this your secōd answere thei being not both one but variable and diuerse S. Gregory Nazianzene saith Verū quod est vnū est mendatiū autē est multiplex The thīg saith he which is true is alwaies one ād like vnto it self wheras the lye the cloked and coūterfait thing is in it selfe variable and diuers By the which rule here geuē by so learned graue a Father I am here in the begīning put to knowledge by the varietie of your answeres that thei cānot be both true But if the one be true the other must be false and therof such a distrust iustly gathered that I may conclude none of them both to be true but both of them to be deceiuable and false For the proufe and trial of this my cōclusion I refer me to your scriptures Fathers Councels practise of the Churche that ye woulde seme to rest vpon whereby neuertheles you your self shall take a shameful foile and fall Wherefore goe on a Gods name and bring foorth your euidences The .10 Diuision Pag. ◠a. The holy Scriptures describing the condicions and propreties in a King amongest other doth commaund that he haue by him the booke of the lavv .34 .35 and doe diligentlie occupie him selfe in reading therof to the end he maie therby learne to feare the Lord his God that is to haue the feare of God planted within him selfe in his ovvne harte to keepe al the wordes and to accomplish in deed al the ordinaunces or as the olde translation hath it al the ceremonies by Cod cōmaunded that is to gouerne in such sorte .36 That he cause by his princely authority his subiects also to become Israelites To witte men that see knovv and vnderstand the vvill of God Redressing the peruersues of such as swerue from Gods ordinances or ceremonies Wherupon it is that God doth commaund the Magistrate that he make 37 diligēt examinatiō of the doctrine taught by any and that he do sharply punish both the teachers of false and superstitious religion with the folovvers and also remoue quite out of the waye all maner of euill The .9 Chapter concerning the Kings duetie expressed in the Deuteronomie GOE on I saie in Gods name M. Horne and prosequute your plea stoutlie God send you good speed And so he dothe euen suche as ye and the honestie of your cause deserue And at the very first entrie of your plea causeth you and your clerkly and honest dealing forth with to your high commendation so to appeare that euen the first authoritie that ye handle of all the holy Scripture plainlye discouereth you and causeth you to be espied and openeth as well your fidelity as the weakenes of your whole cause the which euen with your owne first blast is quite ouerblowen Your infidelity appeareth in the curtalling of your text and leauing out the wordes that immediatly goe before those that ye alleage beside your vnskilfulnes if it be not done rather of peruersitie and malice concurrant with your
defence if any would charge me so chiefly for these two causes First for that many things in this booke pertaine to certaine priuat doinges betwixt M. Feckenham and M. Horne of the which I had no skil Secōdely for that a number of such priuate matters touching the state of the Realme occurred as to them without farder aduise I could not throughly shape any answer Howbeit afterward it so happened that by suche as I haue good cause to credit there came to my knowledge such Instructions as well for the one as for the other that I was the better willing to employ some study and paines in this behalfe Not for that I thinke my self better able thē other but for that I would not it should seme that there lacked any good wil in me either to satisfie the honest desire of my frēdes or to helpe and relieue suche as by such kinde of bookes are already pitefully inueigled and deceiued or to stay other yet standing that this booke be not at any time for lacke of good aduertisement a stombling stocke vnto them I haue therefore by such helpes as is aboue saied added my poore labour thereto and with some diligence in the reste shaped to the whole booke a whole and a full Reply Wherein I rather feare I haue saied to much then to litle But I thought good in a matter of suche Importance to be rather tedious to make al perfitte then shorte and compendious to leaue ought vnperfecte Before then that thou shalt enter good Reader into the Replie it selfe it shal be well to take some aduertisement with a certaine vewe by a shorte and summary comprehension of the whole matter Whereby bothe to the Cōtrouersy in hande thou shalt come better instructed and what in the whole worke is to be looked for thou shalt be aduertised M. Hornes Answer as he calleth it resteth in two partes In the first and chiefest he plaieth the Opponent laying forthe out of the holy Scriptures bothe olde and newe out of Councelles bothe Generall and Nationall out of Histories and Chronicles of all Countres running his race from Constantine the greate downe to Maximilian greate grādfather to the Emperour that nowe liueth taking by the way the kinges of Fraūce of Spaine and of our owne Countre of England since the Conqueste all that euer he could find by his own study and helpe of his frends partly for proufe of the like gouuernement of Princes in Ecclesiastical causes as the Othe attributeth nowe to the Crowne of Englande partly also for disproufe of the Popes Supremacy which the Othe also principally intendeth to exclude In the second and later parte he plaieth the defendant taking vpon him to answer and to satisfie certaine of M. Feckenhams Argumentes and scruples of conscience whereby he is moued not to take the Othe Howe wel he hath plaied bothe his partes the perusal of this Reply wil declare The doings of eche part vpon what occasion they rose thou shalt vnderstād in our Answer to M. Hornes Preface For the more lightsome and clere Intelligence of the whole that is and shall be saied to and fro I haue diuided the whole Processe into foure bookes keping the same order and course that Maister Hornes Aunswere did leade me vnto To the first parte of the Aunswere wherein he layeth forthe his proufes for defence of the Othe I Replie in three Bookes Comprising in the firste booke his Obiections out of Holy Scripture In the Second his Obiections out of the first six hundred yeres In the third his Obiections out of the later 900. yeares vntil our owne dayes Eche booke I haue diuided into seuerall Chapters as occasion serued In the seconde and third bookes where we enter the course of tymes I haue noted at the toppe of eache page in one side the yeare of the Lorde on the other side the name of the Pope Prince or Councell or other Principal matter in that place debated to th entent Gentle Reader that at the first sight euen by turning of a leafe thou mightest knowe both where thou arte and what is a doing both the Age and tyme which exceedingly lighteneth the matter and also the Pope Prince or Councel of that tyme. In these three bookes what I haue particularly done yf thou lyst shortly to see at the ende of the thirde booke thou shalt find a briefe Recapitulation of the whole To the second part of M. Hornes Answer I haue replied in the fourth Booke By perusing wherof it shal wel appeare both what strong and inuincible Argumentes M. Fekenham right lernedly proposed as most iuste causes of his sayed Refusall and also what seely shifts and miserable escapes M. Horne hath deuised to maintayn that obstinatly which he ons conceyued erroniously Especially this thou shalt find in such places of the fourth book where thou seest ouer the Head of the leaues in this letter The Othe The Othe Now good Reader as thou tendrest thy own Saluatiō and hopest to be a saued soule in the ioyful and euerlasting blisse of Heauē so cōsider and weigh wel with thy selfe the importance of this matter in hand First Religiō without Authority is no Religion For no true Religion saith S. Augustine can by any meanes be receiued without some weighty force of authority Then if this Religiō whereby thou hopest to be saued haue no Authority to ground it self vpon what hope of Saluation remayning in this Religiō canst thou cōceyue If it haue any Authority it hath the Authority of the Prince by whose Supreme Gouernement it is enacted erected and forced vpō thee Other Authoritye it hath none If then that Supreme Gouernement be not dewe to the Laye Prince but to the Spiritual Magistrate and to one chiefe Magistrate among the whole Spiritualty thou seest thy Religiō is but a bare name of Religion and no Religion in dede Again if this Supreme Gouernmēt be not rightly attributed to the Laye Magistrate in what state are they which by booke othe do sweare that it ought so to be yea and that in their Consciēce they are so persuaded Is not Periury and especially a wilful Continuance in the same a most horrible and dānable crime in the sight of God And doth not Gods vengeaunce watche ouer them which slepe in Periury I wil be a Quicke witnesse to Periured persons saith God by the Prophet Malachie Nowe if that Supreme Gouernement may dewly and rightly appertayne to our Liege Soueraigne or be any Principall parte of a Princes Royall power as Maister Horne stoutelye but fondely auoucheth or of his dutifull seruice to God which neuer Prince in the Realme of England before the dayes of king Hēry the .8 vsed or claimed which neuer Emperour Kinge or Prince whatsoeuer without the Realme of Englande yet to this present howre had or attempted to haue which the chiefe Masters of the Religion nowe Authorised in Englande doe mislike reproue and condemne namely Martin Luther Iohn Caluin Philip Melanchthon and the
the Cardinal DuraÌ„dus P. Aemilius Martinus poenitentiarius Polidorus Virgilius And such lyke as he him self declareth otherwhere and in this place also confesseth Nowe all be it the Catholiques refuse no Catholique writer nor in this matter haue cause so to doe yet in a matter of such importance which beside the losse of al teÌ„poral relief and besyde bodily death importeth also euerlasting damnation to the Catholikes if the case stande as M. Horne and his fellowes beare vs in hande reason would he should haue fetched the substance of his proufes much higher yea within the .600 yeres whervnto they strayne and binde vs The which the Catholikes haue already performed against M. Iewel not in the substance of the matter onely but euen in the iustifying of the precise wordes wherein M. Iewel hathe framed to himself by a foolish wylynes or wylye foolyshnes the state of the question I meane for the wordes of head of the Church and vniuersall Busshop And what if M Fekenham nowe Syr would reuel with yow with lyke rhetorike and require of yow to proue by the fathers writing within the sayde .600 yeares these expresse words Supreame heade or gouernour in all causes spiritual and temporal to haue bene geuen and attributed to any ciuil Magistrate Againe that the temporal men without yea and against the consent of the whole clergy altered the state of religioÌ„ called and vsed for Catholik throughout the whole corps of Christendome one thousande yeares before with such other articles as concerne the regiment Ecclesiasticall that ye in this your booke defende Ye haue not no nor ye can not proue any such matter either by expres wordes or by any good induction or consequeÌ„t in the first and former Fathers And yet somwhat were it if the Later Fathers might helpe yow But what an impudent face as harde as any horne or stone haue ye beside your mere foly to make the worlde belieue that the authours aforesayde allowed such kinde of regiment of ciuill Princes as the Catholikes now denye Whiche assertion is so certainely and notoriously false that M. Horne him self can not nor doth not deny but that his owne authours were moste earnest fautours of the See of Rome And howe then maye it ones be thoughte by any wise man that they shoulde allowe the doings of suche that forsake and abandon al maner of authority of that See further then is the coÌ„men authority of al other Bisshops yea and make the Bisshop of that Seâ— to whome the sayde authors attribute so large and ample authoritye and prerogatiue as may be and whome they agnise as supreame iudge in matters of faith a very Antichriste These things be incredible these things as the prouerbe is hange together like germans lipps and so shal ye good Readers see the matter most euidently fal owte And therefore M. Horne where you haue of late openlye sittinge at a table in London as I am credibly informed bragged that ye haue quyte coÌ„futed the Papists with their own papistical Doctors how true this is I trust it shall by this answere plainely appeare M. Horne The 3. Diuision Their iudgements and sentences shal appeare in reading by the forme of letter for leuing foorth the Latine to auoide tediousnes 4. I haue putte into English the Authours mindes and sentences and caused them for the moste parte to be Printed in Latine letters that the English reader may knovv and decerne the Authours sayings from mine If this that I haue done vvorke that effect in the Englishe Reader vvhich he ought to seeke and I dâ— vvishe I haue vvonne that I wrought for but otherwise let men say and iudge what they liste I haue discharged my conscience and shewed the trueth Anno Domini 1565. Feb. 25. Rob. Wynchester Stapleton A great vntruth For M. Horne doth not faithfully but most corruptly and falsly alleage the authours wordes and vseth his owne in steade of theirs and to suche as he truely reherseth he geueth an vnmete and an improbable sense of his own making as we shal particularly notifye when the case requireth THE FIRST BOOKE CONTEINING MANY PRIVAT DOINGES OF M. Fekenham the State of the Queâ—tioÌ„ answer to M. Hornes oppositions out of holy scriptures both olde and newe with a declaration who are the right Donatists Protestants or Papistes M. Fekenham The declaration of such scruples and staies oâ—â—â—â—science touching the Othe of Supremacy as 〈◊〉 â—â—kenham by writing did deliuer vnto the L. Bisâ—â—op of Winchester with his resolutions made thereunâ—â— M. Horne The property of him that meaneth to declare rightly any matter done is to set forth the trueth vvithout malice to obserue the due circumstances of the matter persones and times and to vse simple plainesse vvithout guileful ambiguities 5. This Title is so replenished vvith vntrue report and ambiguous sleightes vvithout the note of any necessary circumstance that there is not almost one true vvorde therein vvhereby you geue at the first a taste to the indifferent reader vvhat he must looke for in the sequele You pretende and vvould haue your frendes to thincke that the first fovver chiefe pointes set foorth in your booke vvere deuised by you put in vvriting and so deliured vnto me as the matter and grounde vvherupon the confereÌ„ce to be had betvvixt me and you should stande And that I made thereunto none other but such resolutions as it hath pleased you .6 vntruly to report In the first parte you conueigh an vntrueth vnder a coulorable and ambiguous meaning in these vvoordes as M. Iohn Fekeâ—haÌ„ by vvriting did deliuer vnto the L.B. of VVinchester In thother part .7 you make an vntrue report vvithout any colour at all I doe graunt and vvill not deny that you deliured to me a booke vvhich I thaÌ„ke God I haue to shevv vvhereby to disproue you The same vvil declare the time vvhen the place vvhere the occasion vvherefore the personnes to vvhome the booke vvas vvriteÌ„ and vvhat is the matter in generall therein conteyned VVhereunto must be added at vvhat time the same vvas deliuered vnto me vpon vvhat occasioÌ„ and to vvhat â—nde Al vvhich circumstances you omitte in your booke published least you shoulde haue bevvrayed your selfe and haue appeared in your ovvne likenesse Stapleton The First Chapter concerning the Title of M. Fekenhams declaration THIS was an happy happe for M. Horne that it happed M. FekenhaÌ„ with the omitting of suche slender circumstances to minister to him matter of such triflynge talke wherein otherwise M. Horne should haue had nothing to haue sayde For here is he very exacte and precise in circumstances to be kepte with al dewe obseruation in a by matter which whether it be true or false doth nothing either preiudicate or touche the principal questioÌ„ that is whether the resolutioÌ„s were made before Maister Fekenham deliuered vp his matter in writing or after For this being true that these resolutioÌ„s were made to take away the scruples and stayes
the 2. of Paralip the 17. Chapter And as M.D. Harding and M. Dorman haue writen so say I that ye are they which frequent priuate hylles aulters and darke groues that the Scripture speaketh of Wherein you haue sette vp your Idolls that is your abhominable heresies We also confesse that there is nothing writen in holy Scripture of Iosaphat touching his Care and diligence aboute the directing of ecclesiastical matters but that godly Christiā Princes may at this day doe the same doing it in such sorte as Iosaphat did That is to refourm religiō by the Priests not to enacte a new religiō which the priests of force shal sweare vnto Itē to suffer the Priests to iudge in cōtrouersies of religion not to make the decisiō of such things a parliamēt matter Itē not to prescribe a new forme and order in ecclesiastical causes but to see that accordīg to the lawes of the Church before made the religiō be set forth as Iosaphat procured the obseruatiō of the olde religiō appointed in the law of Moyses Briefly that he doe al this as an Aduocat defendour and Son of the Churche with the Authority and aduise of the Clergy so Iosaphat furdered religiō not otherwise not as a Supreme absolute Gouernour cōtrary to the vniforme cōsent of the whole Clergy in full cōuocation yea and of al the Bisshops at once Thus the example of Iosaphat fitteth wel Christiā Princes But it is a world to see how wretchedly and shamfully Maister Horne hath handled in this place the Holye Scriptures First promysing very sadly in his preface to cause his Authours sentences for the parte to be printed in Latin letters here coursing ouer three seuerall chapters of the 2. of Paralip he setteth not downe any one parte or worde of the whole text in any Latin or distinct lettre but handleth the Scriptures as pleaseth him false translating māgling them and belying them beyonde al shame He telleth vs of the Kings visitours of a progresse made in his own person throughout all his contrey and of Iustices of the peace whereas the texts alleaged haue no such wordes at al. Verely such a tale he telleth vs that his ridiculous dealing herein were it not in Gods cause where the indignity of his demeanour is to be detested were worthely to be laughed at But from fonde coūterfeytīg he procedeth to flatte lying For where he saieth that Iosaphat commaunded and prescribed vnto the chief Priestes what fourme and order they shoulde obserue in the Ecclesiastical causes and controuersies of religion c. This is a lewde ād a horrible lye flatly belying Gods holy word thē which in one that goeth for a bisshop what can be don more abhominable No No M. Horne it was for greate causes that thus wickedly you concealed the text of holy Scriptures which you knew being faithfully sette down in your booke had vtterly confounded you and your whole matter now in hande For thus lo saieth and reporteth the holy Scripture of King Iosaphat touching his dealing with persons rather then with matters ecclesiastical In Ierusalem also Iosaphat appointed Leuites and Priests and the chief of the families of Israël that they should iudge the iudgement and cause of God to the inhabitants thereof How Iosaphat appointed the Leuites and priestes to these Ecclesiastical functiōs it shal appeare in the next Chapter by the example of Ezechias Let vs now forth with the Scripture And Iosaphat commaunded them saying Thus you shall doe in the feare of the Lorde faithfully and with a perfect harte But howe Did Iosaphat here prescribe to the Priestes any fourme or order which they should obserue in controuersies of Religion as M. Horne saieth he did to make folcke wene that Religion proceded then by waye of Commission from the Prince onely Nothinge lesse For thus it foloweth immediatly in the text Euery cause that shall come vnto you of your brethern dwelling in their Cyties betwene kinred and kinred wheresoeuer there is any question of the law of the cōmaundement of ceremonies of Iustificatiōs shewe vnto thē that they syn not against God c. Here is no fourme or order prescribed to obserue in controuersies of Religion but here is a generall commaundement of the King to the Priests and Leuits that they should doe now their duty and vocatiō faithfully and perfectly as they had don before in the dayes of Asa and Abias his Father and grandfather like as many good and godly Princes among the Christians also haue charged their bisshops and clergy to see diligently vnto their flockes and charges And therefore Iosaphat charging here in this wise the Priestes and Leuites doth it not with threates of his high displeasure or by force of any his own Iniunctions but only saith So then doing you shal not sinne or offende The which very maner of speache Christian Emperours and Kinges haue eftesones vsed in the lyke case as we shall hereafter in the thirde booke by examples declare But to make a short end of this matter euen out of this very Chapter if you hadde M. Horne layed forth but the very next sentence and saying of King Iosaphat immediatly folowinge you shoulde haue sene there so plain a separation and distinction of the spiritual and secular power which in this place you labour to confounde as a man can not wishe any plainer or more effectual For thus saith king Iosaphat Amarias the priest ād your bishop shal haue the gouernment of such things as appertayne to God And Zabadias shal be ouer such works as appertayne to the Kings office Lo the Kings office and diuine matters are of distinct functiōs Ouer Gods matters is the priest not as the Kings commissioner but as the priestes alwaies were after the exāple of Moyses But ouer the Kings works is the Kings Officier And marke wel M. Horne this point Zabadias is set ouer such works as belong to the Kings office But such works are no maner things pertayning to the Seruice of God For ouer them Amarias the priest is president Ergo the Kings office consisteth not aboute things pertayning to God but is a distinct functiō concerning the cōmon weale Ergo if the King intermedle in Gods matters especially if he take vpon him the supreme gouernmēt thereof euen ouer the priests themselues to whom that charge is committed he passeth the bondes of his office he breaketh the order appointed by God and is become an open enemy to Gods holy ordinance This place therefore you depely dissembled ād omitted M. Horne lest you should haue discouered your own nakednesse and haue brought to light the vtter cōfusion of you and your wretched doctrine Except for a shift you wil presse vs with the most wretched and trayterous translatiō of this place in your common english bibles printed in the yere 1562. Which for praesidebit shal gouerne doe turne is amonge you For your newe Geneuian bibles which you take I doubte not for the more corrected doe translate
not as an vnfaithful subiect but as a repentaÌ„t Catholik The 24. vntruth This is no parte at al of the Princes royal povver Mutato nomine de te fabula narratur * If your abilitie be no better then here apeareth it is none al all The .25 vntruth The Tovver is not M. FekenhaÌ„s hold For it holdeth him not he it The .26 vntruth The Quenes highnes vvordes in the Tovver can testifie the contrary 27. A heape of slaunderous and railing vntrute Hovve a spirituall man is vnderneath the Prince aÌ„d hovv he is not An heapâ— of vntruthes vvherevvith M. Fekenham is falslie charged After Gods plague M. Horne beganne his plage Thom. Aquin. quaest 1. de malo The 28. vntruthe For no man can knovv that vvhich is not true * A rablement of vntruthâ— The 29. vntruthâ— Slaunderous and reprochful The .30 vntruth This was not the cause of his enprisonment as shall appeare The .31 vntruthe slaÌ„derous he vvas not deliuered vpon any promise of recantatioÌ„ but to be disputed vvithal The 32. vntruthe mere slauÌ„derous as may vvel appere by this your booke Sapien. 1. The geÌ„tle and louiÌ„g haâ—te of M. Horn. Tho. aqui de malo quast 3. In Opusc. contra errores Graecorum OsteÌ„ditur etiaÌ„ quòd subesse Romano PoÌ„tifici sit de necessitate salutis No man caÌ„ know an vntruthe The cause of M. Fekenhams imprisonment in K. Edvvardes dayes Disputatioâ—â— had vvith M. FekenhaÌ„ Vide disputa venerabiliuÌ„ sacerdotuÌ„ Antuerp impress 1564. August in Psal. 54. super versum Diuisi sunt praeira c. See Syr Thomas More in a letter vvriten to Syr Thomas Cromwel fol. 1426. 1427. Syr Tho. Mores first opinioÌ„ of the Popes primacy The Popes primacy instituted by God Though the Primacie vver noâ— ordeined of God yet could it not be reiected by anie one Realme Luc. 22. M. FekeÌ„haÌ„ more coÌ„firmed then he vvas before euen by M. Hornes booke Sap. 1. In the GeneuiaÌ„ Bibleâ— printed at Geneua An. 1562 Vide Hosium coÌ„tr Brent li. 3 The .33 vntruth imploying a coÌ„tradictioÌ„ to your former ansvvere made to M. Fek. as shall appere The first ansvvere of M. Horne to M. Fekenham M. Horns secoÌ„d ansvvere coÌ„trarye to the first Truth is simple aÌ„d vniform The .34 and .35 vntruthâ— in false traÌ„slatiÌ„g and leauing out a part of the senteÌ„ce materiall The .36 vntruth Tâ—e gloss ordinar hathe no suche thing The .37 Vntruth The place of the Deuteronomy flatly belyed M. Hornes vnskilfulnes Deut. 17. In the greate Bible dedicated to King Edward the 6 printed 1549. Both the boks of scripture and thexposition must be taken at the priests hands An other sentence in the said chapter by M. Horn alleaged that ouer throvveth all his boast Deut. 13. Heresie is Idolatry Vinc. Lyr. aduersus prophan nouit Hieron Zach. c. 13 Esai c. 2. 8. Augu. de vera religion c. 38. * Regarde and chief rule Care and Suprem gouernmeÌ„t are ij diuerse thiÌ„ges The 38. vntruth For Moyses vvas the chiefe prieste as shal be proued Moyses All M. Hornes examples out of the old testament ansvvered alredy by M. Doct. Harding and M. Dorman Psalm 98 Hieron in IouinianuÌ„ lib. 1. Greg Nazian in oration de Moyse Aaron in orat habita in praesentia fratris Basilij c. Philo Iudeus de vita Moysi lib. 3. Exod 24 Ibidem Exod. 29. 35. Deut. 34. Deut. 18. Act. 3. et 7. Act. 7. MeÌ„ must iudge by Lavv and not by examples The .39 vntruth Iosue had not the Supreme gouernement in causes Ecclesiastical but Eleazarus had it The .40 vntruth For beside In all things to be don of Iosue Eleazar shoulde instruct him Iosue 3.4 5 6.8.23.24 Iosue no Supreme Gouernour in al Ecclesiasticall causes Num 27 M. Nowel put to his shifts by M. Dorman Num. 27. Iosue 3 4.5.6.8.23.24 Iosue 13. Num. 17. Fol 23. 24. 2 Sam 5. The .41 vntruth Dauid vvas not Supreme gouernor in al manner causes but suffred the Leuites in Churche matters to liue vnder the rule of their high Priest 1. Par. 13.15.16 Dauid in all these matters determimined no doctrine nor altered any religion agaiÌ„st the Priestes vvilles of his ovvn Supreme authoritye Dauid 1 Par. 16. 1. Par. 24. 2. Par. 29. Naueler Generat 29. pag 51 52. Krantz lib. 2. c 9. Iuo Carnot lib. 5. Nec vlterius liceat retractari per appellationis negotium quod episcoporum iudicio reciditur The .42 vntruth For Salomon of his ovvn authoritie as your argument runneth deposed not Abiathar but executed only the sentence pronouÌ„ced before by Samuell Gods minister The .43 vntruth Those vvordes are not in the scripture alleged Novvel fol. 166. col 1. M. Horne ouerthrovven coÌ„cerning the deposition of Abiathar by the very next line of his ovvne text guilefully by hiÌ„ omitted 3. Reg. c. 2 The 44. vntruth The Scripturâ— termetâ— not any such Princely Authoâ—ity 2 Par. 17. Gloss. oâ—d * Not by his ovvn lavves enacting a religion vvhich preachers shoulde svveare vnto 2. Par. 19. * Yea the Priestes iudged not the King The 45. vntruth Thereappereth not in Scripture any such prescriptioÌ„ made vno the chiefe Priests 2. Par. 20. 2. Par. 19 8. In his quae ad Deum perâ—inent praesidebit Exod. 4. 18. M Horn confounded by his ovvne book and Chapter 4. Reg. 18. 2. Par. 29. The 46. vntruth Those vvordes concerning thiÌ„gs of the Lord are no vvordes of the text but faâ—sly added to holy Scripture The 47 vnâ—ruth Holy Scripture falsified aÌ„d may â—ed as it shal appere 2. Par. 30. 4. Reg. 18. 2. Par. 29 2. Par. 31. 2. Par. 29. The .48 vntruth Boldly auouched but no vvay proued The 49. vntruth as before but somvvhat more impudent Iosias It is here declared that M. Horne coÌ„meth nothing nigh the principal question Generall CouÌ„cels abandoned out of England by acte of Parliament Note Gen. 47. The .50 vntruth Moste slaunderous M. Horne him selfe and his fellovves are in many poiÌ„ts Donatistes as shal appeare The 51. vntruth Answere the Fortresse M. Horne annexed to S. Bede if you dare to defend this most sensible and most grosse lye August Epist. 43. 50. Lib. 2. cont lit Pet. ca. 92 Lib 2. con Ep. 2. Gaud. ca. 2â— M. Horns disorderly Treatise M. Horns and his fellovves auÌ„cetors August et Epiphae de haeres Hier. con Iouinian Ambro. li. 10. epi. 18 Ambros. serm 91. Euth in Panopl tit 33. Euth Zigab in Panop tit 21 Hiero. coÌ„t Vig. Ionas episcopus Aurelian coÌ„t Claudium Euth in Panop tit 22. August li. 1. cont 2. epis Pela ad Bonif. cap. 13. Cyril li 6. coÌ„t Iulia. Cyril lib. 6 contra IulianuÌ„ Aug. lib. 2 coÌ„tr 2. epi. Pelag. c. 4. Caluin in his Institutions cap. 18. in fine ArgeÌ„torati Impress An. 1545 Epiph. Philast de haeres Clemens li. 3. recog Iraeneus li 1. ca. 20. In the discourse annexed to Staphilus fol. 161. sequent Protestants be Donatists 1. The dissentioÌ„ of the
you to the leaues of this booke here noted vnto you in the margin together with the leaues of your own booke Many like gay grāmaticall practises might yet be shewed Yea in your late Visitation at Oxforde exercised by your Chauncelour and sonne in Lawe as beside al lawe you cal him hauing maried your bastard not your lawful daughter in al the copies of articles that your said Chauncelour proposed to be subscribed are these woordes Regina supremus Gubernator Ecclesiae Anglicanae for Suprema gubernatrix And so remaineth that clause to this houre vnreformed So that if it were nothing but for false Latin a scholer might honestly refuse to subscribe to such an Article Nowe what shal I say of your logike and exact kind of reasoning As there is nothing in a writer more requisit that meaneth truly so the more you haue broken the rules therof the more is your shame and the lesse ought the credit of your whole Booke to be I neede not descend to the particulars your perpetuall maner of writing being suche as your whole discourse seemeth nothing els but a mishapen lumpe of lewde and loose argumentes For this being the matter which you haue taken in hande to proue by the examples of other Princes and by the practise of Councells that the Laye Magistrates are Supreme Gouernours in all Ecclesiastical causes this vniuersall proposition being that which should be concluded your premisses are allwaies mere particulars your proufes procede euer of some one fact or matter Ecclesiastical but neuer of all And yet those matters that you bring being partly no Ecclesiastical matters at all partly vntruly fathered vppon the laye Magistrate So that as euer you faile in truth of matter so you neuer make good forme of argument And you can tell your selfe they be your owne wordes that younge Logicians knovve this is an euil consequent that concludeth vpon one or diuerse particulars affirmatiuely an vniuersal This euil consequent M. Horn is the only consequēt that you make in all your booke where you play the Opponents parte For the which I referre you and the Reader to the three first bookes of this Reply VVith the like good logique you lay forthe false definitions and false diuisions of your owne Inuention As for your Rhetorike you worke your matters so handsomly and so persuasiuely that there is not almost any one Scripture any story any Councel any Father any Author that you alleage which maketh not directly against your purpose and beareth withal an expresse and euidēt testimony for the Popes Supremacy not only otherwher but euen in the very same place and allegation that you alleage and grounde your selfe vpon And this chaunceth not once or twise but in a maner customably as by perusing this Reply you shal soone perceyue And therefore I wil not specially note it here vnto you as a rare or seldome thinge Neither will I thanke you for bringing to our handes so good stuffe to proue our principall purpose by but say herein vnto you as S. Augustin sayd in the like case of the Donatistes alleaging the workes of Optatus by the which they were euer confounded and the Catholikes cause maruailously furdered Nec tamē ipsis sed Deo potius hinc agimus gratias vt enim illa omnia vel loquendo vel legendo pro causa nostra promerent atque propalarent veritas eos torsit non charitas inuitauit Neither doe we yet thanke them for their so doing but rather God For that they should bring forth and vtter either by talke or by alleaging al those thinges for our matter the Truth forced them not any Charity inuited thē And truly so M. Horn that by your own Authors you are euer confounded the Truthe of our cause forceth you as not being able to alleage any Author that maketh not for vs not any good wil to our cause or to vs moued you Againe what a newe Cicero or Demosthenes are you that laye forth to M. Fekenham as a good and a persuasible motiue to enduce him to take the Othe of the Prīces Primacy the former erroneous doinges of certayne Reuerend Fathers whereof they haue so farre repented that for refusal of this Othe thei haue suffred depriuation and haue and doe suffer imprisonment and are ready besides by Gods assistance patiently to suffer whatsoeuer Gods prouidence hath gratiously prouided for them Wherevnto both they and other haue good cause much the more to be encouraged cōsidering that after al this struggling and wrastling against the Truth by you ād your felowes M. Iewel and the rest the Truth is daily more and more opened illustred and confirmed And your contrary doctrine is or ought to be disgraced and brought in vtter discredit with such as doe but indifferently weigh the most wretched and miserable handling of the holy Fathers and Councelles before by M. Iewel as al Englande knoweth and nowe by you Maister Horne which are not much inferior to him in that pointe of legerdemayne For as in his most lying Reply against D. Harding so in this your Answer to M. Fekenhams treatise there is neither Scripture nor Coūcel nor doctour nor any thing els that cometh through your hands which you doe not miserably mangle corrupte and peruerte and that by a number of dishonest and shameful shifts which particularly to specifie would be to long and tediouse But to say somwhat for an example the principall parte of all your shifting standeth in a certaine meruelouse kind of a newe and a false Arithmetike somtime by Addition sometime by diminution and Detraction Thus to make your matter of the Princes Supreme gouernement in al ecclesiastical causes more probable you interlace twise these woordes as one that had the cure and authoritie ouer all and againe in the same leaf as one that had authoritie ouer them which you finde not in your Authours Thus you shuffle in this pretye sillable All to Socrates and againe to Theodoretus So you springle in these woordes by his supreame authoritie to your narration out of the saied Theodoretus And by and by to your narration out of Sozomenus these woordes and the Bishops could not remoue him So you adde to Liberatus this woorde depose And to the Actes of the Chalcedon Coūcell these woordes vvhich othervvise must be deposed And to the Actes of the sixt Generall Councell these woordes to examine and confirme You thrust into the narration of Antoninus and Marius that which they say not and to the narration of Quintinus Heduus fyue ful lines that are not in your author touching Pope Iohn the .22 and many other like things otherwhere And yet I can not tel whether your peruersity be more in your false multiplication or in your false diminution In framing the state of the question by the statutes of the realme you leaue out the beginninge and the ende of the Statute You leaue out of
Fekenhā meant otherwise then he durst plainly vtter or by his cūning could aunswer vnto M. Horne The 2. Diuision Vvherein I follovv the order of M. Fekenhams booke I make the proofes according to his request and besides my proofes foorth of the Scriptures the auncient Doctours the Generall Councels and Nationall I make proofe by the continual practise of the Church .3 in like gouernment as the Queenes Maiestie taketh vpon her and that by such Authors for a great sort of them as are the more to be credited in this matter for that they vvere most earnest fautors of the Romish sea infected as the times vvere vvith much superstitiō and did attribute vnto the see of Rome and so to the vvhole Clergie so much authoritie in Churche matters as they mighte and muche more then they ought to haue done Stapleton I wil not charge M Horne that his meaning is to ingraffe in the mindes of the subiectes a misliking of the Queenes Maiestie as though shee vsurped a power and autoritie in Ecclesiasticall maters whereto shee hath no right as he chargeth M. Fekenham withal vnlesse perchance he were of Councell with the holy brotherhode of Geneua for the Booke whereof we shall hereafter speake that spoyleth the Queenes Maiesty of al her authority as wel tēporal as spiritual and vnlesse he hath in opē sermō at VVinchester mainteined cōtrary to the Quenes ecclesiastical iniunctions such as would not reform their disordered apparel and that after he had put his hand as one of the Queenes cōmissioners to the redresse of the saied disorder And vnlesse he hath and doth maītein many things beside yea and cōtrary to the lawes and orders of the realm late set forth cōcerning maters ecclesiasticall as it is wel knowē and to be proued he hath don as wel in the defending of the Minister of Durley near the Manour of Bisshops Walthā refusing the saied order as otherwise But this may I boldy say and I doubt nothinge to proue it that in al his boke there is not as much as one worde of scripture one Doctour one councell generall or prouincial not the practise of any one countrey throwgh owte the worlde counted Catholike that maketh for such kinde of regiment as M. Horne avoucheth nor any one manner of proufe that hath any weight or pythe in the worlde to perswade I wil not say M. Fekenham but any other of much lesse witte learning and experience I say M. Horne commeth not ones nighe the principall matter and question wherein M. Fekenhā would and of right ought to be resolued I say further in case we remoue and sequester al other proufes on oure syde that M. Horn shal by the very same fathers councels and other authorities by him felfe producted so be ouerthrowen in the chief and capital question vnto the which he cometh not nighe as a man might say by one thowsande myles that his owne company may haue iuste cause to feare least this noble blaste so valiantly and skilfully blowen owte of M. Hornes trompet shall engender in the harts of all indifferent and discrete Readers much cause to mistruste more thē they did before the whol matter that M. Horne hath taken in hande to iustifie Wherefore as it is mete in al matters so is it here also cōueniēt and necessary to haue before thyne eyes good Reader the state and principal question controuersed betwene the parties standing in variance And then diligently to see how the proufes are of eche party applied for the confirming of their assertions There are therfore in this cause many things to be considered Firste that Christe lefte one to rule his whole Churche in his steade from tyme to tyme vnto the ende of the worlde Secondly that this one was Saint Peter the Apostle and now are the Bisshoppes of Rome his successours Thirdly that albeit the Bisshop of Rome had no such vniuersal gouernment ouer the whole yet that he is and euer was the patriarche of Englande and of the whole weste Church and so hath as muche to doe here as any other patriarche in his patriarkshippe Then that all were it that he had nothing to intermedle with vs nor as Pope nor as patriarche yet can not this supremacy of a ciuil prince be iustified whereof he is not capable especiallye a woman but it must remayne in some spiritual man Beside this the Catholikes say that as there was neuer any suche presidēte heretofore in the Catholike Churche so at this present there is no such except in England neither emonge the Lutherans the Zwinglians the Swenckfeldians or Anabaptistes nor any other secte that at this daye raygneth or rageth in the worlde None of these I saye agnise their cyuil prince as supreame gouernour in al causes spiritual and temporal Last of al I say and M. Fekenham wil also saye that euen M. Horne him selfe in this his answere retreyteth so farre backe from this assertion of supreame gouernment in all causes spirituall and temporall whiche is the state and keye of the whole question that he plucketh from the prince the chief and principal matters and causes ecclesiasticall as we shall here after plainely shewe by his owne woordes The premisses then being true and of owre syde abundantly proued and better to be proued as occasion shall serue as nothing can effectually be brought against them so M Horne as ye shal euidently perceiue in the processe stragleth quyte from al these points besetting himselfe all his study and endeuor to proue that which neither greatly hyndereth oure cause nor much bettereth his and for the which neither maister Fekenham nor any other Catholike will greatly contende with him whiche is when all is done that Princes may medle and deale with causes ecclesiasticall Which as it is in some meaning true so dothe yt nothing reache home to the pointe most to haue bene debated vpon And so is much labour vaynely and idlelye employed with tediouse and infynite talke and bablinge all from the purpose and owte of the matter whiche ought speciallye to haue bene iustifyed And therefore this is but an impudente facing and bragging to say that he hath proued the like regiment that we deny by the Fathers by the Councels and by the continual practise of the Churche Now it is worthy to see the iolye pollicy of this man and howe euen and correspondent it is to his fellowe protestants M. Iewel restrayneth the Catholikes to .600 yeres as it were by an extraordinary and newe founde prescription of his owne embarringe al Later proufes Yet he him selfe in the meane tyme runneth at large almoste one thowsande yeares Later shrynkinge hither and thyther taking tagge and ragge heretike and Catholik for the fortifying of his false assertions This wise trade this man kepeth also and to resolue M. Fekenham and setle his conscience he specially stayeth him self vpon Platina Nauclerus Abbas Vrspergensis Sabellicus Aeneas pius Volaterranus Fabian Polichronicon Petrus Bertrandus Benno
Bales or some such like but as for the olde ordinary Latin Glose I am right sure M. Horn it hath no suche thinge This therefore may wel stande for an other vntruthe As also that which immediatly you alleage out of Deuteron 13. For in al that chapter or any other of that booke there is no such worde to be founde as you talke of And thus with a ful messe of Notorious vntruthes you haue furnished the first seruice brought yet to the table cōcernīg the prīcipal matter How be it perhaps though this be very course yet you haue fyne dishes and dayntycates coming after Let vs then procede The .11 Diuision Pag. 8. b. M. Horne The beste and most Godly Princes that euer gouerned Gods people did perceiue and rightly vnderstande this to be Gods vvil that they ought to haue an especiall regarde and care for the ordering and setting foorth of Gods true Religion and therefore vsed great diligence vvith feruent zeale to perfourme and accomplishe the same Moyses vvas the supreme gouernour ouer Gods people and vvas .38 not chiefe Priest or Bisshop for that vvas Aaron vvhose authority zeale and care in appointing and ordering Religion amongest Gods people prescribing to al the people yea to Aaron and the Leuits vvhat and after vvhat sorte they should execute their functions correcting and chastening the transgressours is manifestly set foorthe in his booke called the Pentateuche The 9. Chapter concerning the example of Moyses MAister Horne willing to seame orderly to procede first bringeth in what scripture commaūdeth Princes to doe and then what they did But as his scripture towching the commaundemēt by him alleaged nothing reacheth home to his pretensed purpose but rather infringeth and plainely marreth the same as I haue saide and fully standeth on our syde So I dowbte nothing yt wil fare with his examples as of Moyses Iosue Dauid Salomon Iosaphat Ezechias Iosias and that they al come to short and are to weake to iustifie his assertion But here am I shrewdly encombred and in a great doubte what to doe For I coulde make a shorte but a true answere that these examples are fully answered alredy by M. Doctour Harding and M. Dorman and referre thee thither to thyne and myne ease gentle reader and to the sparing not onely of penne ynk and paper but of the tyme also whiche of al things is most preciouse But then I feare me woulde steppe forth yf not M. Horne a good simple plain man in his dealings yet some other iolye fyne freshe pregnant wytty fellowe yea and bringe me to the straits which way so euer I did tread Yf I shuld as I said sende the reader to them then should I heare a foole a dolte an asse that can say nothing of his own Then shoulde the cause be slaundered also as so poore and weake that it could beare no large and ample treatise yea with all that their answeres were such as I was asshamed of them and therefore wilylye and wiselye forbeared them with manye suche other triumphant trieflinge toyes Againe yf I shoulde repete or inculcate their answeres then woulde Maister Nowell or some other rushe in vppon me with his ruflynge rhetorike that he vseth againste Maister Dorman and Maister Doctour Hardinge withe a precise accompte and calculation what either Maister Dorman or Maister Doctour Hardinge borowed of Hosius or either of them two of the other And what I haue nowe borowed of them bothe or of either of them And I shoulde be likewise insulted vppon and our cause as feble and very weake slaundered also But on the one syde leaste any of the good bretherne shoulde surmise vppon my silence anye suche distruste I will compendiously as the matter shall require abridge their answeres and that Maister Horne shall thinke that our stuff is not al spente I shall on the other syde for a surplussage adioyne some other thinges to owre opponent accommodate So that I truste either answere shal be sufficient to atchieue our purpose againste Maister Horne Then for Moyses I saye with Maister Doctour Hardinge and Saint Augustyne that he was a prieste aswell as a Prince I say the same with Maister Dorman with Philo Iudeus with Saint Hierom and with Saint Hieroms Maister Gregorie Nazianzene And so consequently Maister Horne that Moyses example serueth not your turne onlesse ye will kinge Henry the eight and his sonne king Edward yea and our gracious Quene to be a priest to but rather quite ouerturneth your assertion And thinke you Maister Horne that the Quenes authority doth iumpe agree with the authority of Moyses in causes ecclesiastical Then maye she preach to the people as Moyses did Thē may she offer sacrifices as Moyses did Then may she cōsecrate Priests as Moyses did cōsecrate Aaron and others Then may it be said of the imposition of her hands as was said of Moyses Iosua the son of Nun was ful of the sprite of wisedom for Moyses hadde put his hand vpon him It must nedes therfore follow that Moyses was a priest and that a high priest which ye here ful peuishly deny I say now further with M. Dorman that put the case Moyses were no priest yet this example frameth not so smothely and closely to your purpose as ye wene For Moyses was a prophet and that such a prophet as the like was not agayne Geue me nowe Maister Horn Princes Prophetes geue me Princes and Lawe makers by speciall order and appointmente ordeyned of God to whose woordes God certainly woulde haue geuen as greate authority as he wolde and commaunded to be geuen to Moyses and then perchaunce I will say that ye saye somewhat well to the purpose Agayne Moyses was suche a speciall Prophet and so singularlye chosen of God to be heard and obeyed in all thinges that he is in the holy scripture euidentlye compared to Christ him selfe compared I say euen in the office of teaching and instructing Moyses in the Deuteronom foretelling the Iewes of a Messias to come saieth The Lorde thy God wil rayse thee vp a Prophet from among thy own nation and of thy brethern such a one as my self him thou shalt heare And this so spoken of Moyses in the olde Lawe is in the new testamēt auouched ād repeted first by S. Peter the chief Apostle and next by S. Stephen the first Martir and applied to Christ. If thē Christ must so be heard and obeied of vs as was Moyses of the Iewes no doubt as Christ is a Kinge a Prophet a Priest and a Bisshop to vs so was Moyses to thē a Prince a Prophet a Priest and a Bisshop As Christ is of vs to be heard and obeyed as wel in al matters Ecclesiasticall as Temporal for no temporal Lawe can haue force against the Law of Christ amonge Christen men so was Moyses to be heard and obeyed of the Iewes in matters and causes as well temporall as spirituall For why The Scripture is plaine Tanquam me
a general councel for that beloÌ„ged to the Emperour vvho in that time vvas busie in the vvarres against the Saracens He waited saith Platina for the returne of the Emperour This Constantinus surnamed Pogonatus about the yeere of the Lord 680. calleth the Bishoppes out of all coastes vnto a general Councel in his letters of Sommons to Donus but committed to Agatho Bishop of Rome Donus beinge dead he admonisheth him of the contention betvvixt the sea of Rome and Constantinople he exhorteth him to laie aside al strife feruencie and malice and to agree in the trueth vvith other addinge this reason For God loueth the trueth and as Chrysostome saith He that wil be the chief amongst all he must be minister vnto all by vvhich reason made by the Emperour it may seeme that the pride of those tvvoo seates striuinge .260 for superioritie and supremacie vvas a great nourishment of the Schisme vvhich vvas chiefly in outvvarde shevve only for doctrine He protesteth that he vvill shevve him selfe indifferent vvithout parciallitye to anye parte or faction onely seekinge as Godde hath appointed him to keepe the Faith that he had receiued vvholye and vvithout blotte He exhorteth and commaundeth the Bishoppe of Rome not to be an hinderaunce but to further this Councell vvith sending such as are fitte for such purpose The bishop of Rome obeyeth the Emperours .261 commaundement And the like letters the Emperor sendeth to George Bishop of Constantinople and others The Emperour sat in the councell him selfe as President and moderatour of al that action hauing on his right hande a great company of his Nobles and of his Bishoppes on his lefte hand And vvhan the holy Ghospelles vvas broughte foorth and laide before them as the .262 iudges vvhose sentence they ought to follovve as it vvas also vvonte to be doone in the fornamed Councels The deputies for the bishoppe of Rome stande vppe and speake vnto the Emperour in moste humble vvise callinge him moste benigne Lorde affirminge the Apostolike seat of Rome to be subiect vnto him as the seruant vnto the Maister and beseechinge him that he vvil commaunde those that tooke parte vvith the bishoppe of Constantinople vvhich had in times paste brought in nevve kinds of speache and erronious opinions to shevve from vvhence they receiued their nevve deuised Heresies The Emperour commaundeth Macarius Archebishoppe of Antioche and his side to ansvveare for them selues And after diuerse requestes made by him to the Emperour and graunted by the Emperour vnto him the Emperour commaundeth the Synode to staie for that time The .5 Chapter Of the sixt Generall Councell holden at Constantinople vnder Pope Agatho Stapleton MAister Horne as he sayeth returneth againe to Agatho wherin he doth wel for this hath bene an extrauagant and an impertinent discourse But he returneth withall to his accustomable dealing sayinge that pope Agatho of his owne authoritie coulde not call a councell Which neither his authour Platina sayeth nor anie other nor he him self proueth He coulde M. Horne haue called a Councell and so he did call at Rome at this verie tyme a great Councell of an 1â—5 Bisshoppes our contreyman S. Wilfryde Archbisshoppe of Yorke and the Apostle of Sussex being one of them without the Emperor and such as this Emperour him selfe confesseth to be a general Councell But because the schisme of the Monothelites was deaply setled in Grece and was fast and depelye rooted by continuance of .46 yeares not onely in the Bisshoppes of the chiefe sees as Constantinople Alexandria Antiochia and others but also in the Emperours withall full godly and wisely that the Councell might be more effectuall and fruytful he thowght good to worke with the aduice and assistance of the Emperour and so he did And this his godly pollicy had his prosperouse successe accordingly Maister Horne will nowe recite to vs his collections oute of this Councell called the .6 Generall Councell that he hath gathered but how well and fytlye to proue his matter ye shal anone vnderstande for the confirmation of his newe erected primacy And first he glaunceth at the See of Rome surmising that because the Emperour exhorted the Pope to vnity the pride of Rome and of Constantinople striuing for superiority and supremacy was a greate nourishment of the Schisme This is a lewde and a false surmise For the Emperour in that place expressely telleth by the reporte of the Greeke Patriarches the cause of that stryfe to be quòd verba quaedam nouitatis intromissa sunt that certaine newe doctrine was brought into the Churche And will Maister Horne haue his vnproued surmise to waighe downe the Emperours plaine confession The malice you talke of Maister Horne is in your self â–ª It was not in Pope Agatho The Emperour protesteth you say to kepe the faith that he hadde receiued wholy and without blotte Woulde God all Christen Princes had done so You hadde hadde then Maister Horne no place in our countre to preache and sette forthe your damnable heresies You say farder The Bisshop of Rome obeyed the Emperours commaundement And this also you note verye solemnely in your Margin But both your text and your margin by your leaue lyeth For the Emperour in his letters to the Pope wherein he inuited him to this Councel saith plainely Inuitare rogare possumus ad omnem commendationem vnitatem omnium Christianorum necessitatem verò inferre nullatenus volumus Well we may moue you and praye you to fall to an vnity but force you by no meanes wil we Where then is this forceable commaundemeÌ„t that you imagine You woulde faine haue the Emperours very Imperiall ouer Popes and Bisshoppes You woulde as Auxentius the Arrian Bisshop did Laicis ius sacerdotale substernere bring vnder the Laye Princes foote the Priestly right and Authoritye You woulde haue them as the Arrians persuaded Constantius 〈◊〉 being sette to gouerne one thinge to take vpon them an other thing This with your predecessours hereticall Bisshoppes your prelatship also would Emperours shoulde take vppon them But they expresselye refuse so to doe they proteste the contrary they abhorre suche lewde clawebackes You adde farder that in the Councell the holye Gospelles was brought forthe and layde before them as the iudges This is a flatte vntruthe The Councel hath no such woordes I meane that the Gospels were Iudges No doubte but by the ghospels the Councel did iudge and determine the controuersies and had alwaies those holy books before theÌ„ as also a Signe of the Crosse and other relikes as Cusanus writeth But a Iudge must speake and pronounce a Sentence Such is not the Scripture but such are they that be as the Apostle saith Dispensatores mysteriorum Christi the dispensours of the mysteries of Christ the ordered teachers of his woorde the successours of his Apostles But you to make folke wene that Scripture alone were the only Iudge as though the booke could speake and geue sentence it selfe without a Teacher or
and the banner of the city to to Charles as M. Horne telleth vs yea the keyes of S. Peters coÌ„fessioÌ„ as Rhegino telleth vs and yet for al that he remayned Bisshop Archebisshop Patriarche and Pope to yea and supreme head of the Church by M. Horns owne tale to But remembre your selfe better M. Horne You said euen nowe they were sent awaye by Gregory the .3 to Charles Martell into Fraunce by shippe Howe then came the Pope by them agayne Or howe did the successours and heyeres of Charles Martell keepe those keyes from rusting if his own Nephewe Charles the greate loste them and was fayne to haue them againe by a newe dede of gifte Or hath euery Pope a newe payre of keyes froÌ„ Christ to bestowe as thei list Then the gift could be but for terme of life And then where be the heyres and successours of Charles Martell which kept not you saye those keyes from rusting O M. Horne Oportet mendacem esse memoreÌ„ A lyar must haue a good memory Or wil you saye that this Pope Leo sent to Charles these keyes as a gifte to signifie that the city was at his commaundemente as Bellisarius after he had recouered Rome from Totilas of whome we spake of before sent the keyes of the city to Iustinian themperour and as some men write euen aboute this time this Charles receiued the keyes of the city of Hierusalem with the banner of the said citye Yet al this will not work the great strauÌ„ge miracle of supremacie that your keies haue wrought M. Horne The .100 Diuision Fol. 61. a. Ansegisus Abbas gathereth together the decrees that this Charles aÌ„d his son Lodouicus had made in their tymes for the reformatioÌ„ of the Churche causes Amongest other these The Canonicall Scriptures onely to be redde in the Churches For the office of Bisshops in diligeÌ„t preaching and that onely out of the holy Scriptures that the communion should be receiued three times in the yeere The abrogatiÌ„g and taking away a great nuÌ„ber of holy daies besides SoÌ„daies and that childreÌ„ before ripe yeres should not be thrust into religious houses aÌ„d that no maÌ„ should be ê“fessed a MoÌ„k except licence were first asked and obteined of the King He decreed also and straightly commaunded that Monkes being Priestes should studie diligentlie shoulde write rightlie should teache children in their Abbaies and in Bisshoppes houses That Priests should eschue couetousnes glotony alehouses or tauernes secular or prophane busines familiaritie of women vnder paine of depriuation or degradation Hâ— prouided to haue and placed fit pastours for the bisshoprikes and cures to feede the people He ordeined learned Scholemaisters for the youth and made deuout abbots to rule those that were enclosed in Cloisters saith Nauclerus As it is said of Kinge Dauid that he set in order the Priests Leuits singers and porters and ordered all the offices and officers required to be in the house of the Lorde for the setting foorth of his seruice and Religion Euen so this noble Charles left no officer belonging to Goddes Churche no not so much as the singer porter or SexteÌ„ vnapointed and taught his office and duety as Nauclerus telleth Besides the authority of this noble Prince in .323 gouerniÌ„g and directing al Church matters his zeale and care therfore in such sort as the knovvledge of that .324 superstitious time vvould suffer is plainly shevved in an iniuÌ„ctioÌ„ that he gaue to al estates both of the Layty and Cleargy to this effect I Charles by the grace of God King and gouernour of the Kingdome of Fraunce a deuout and humble maintainour and ayder of the Churche To al estates both of the Layety and the Cleargye wis he saluation in Christ. Considering the exceeding goodnes of God towardes vs and our people I thinke it very necessary wee rendre thankes vnto him not onely in harte and worde but also in continual exercise and practise of wel doing to his glory to the end that he who hath hitherto bestowed so great honour vpon this Kingdom may vouchesaulfe to preserue vs and our people with his protection VVherfore it hath seemed good for vs to mooue you ô ye pastours of Christes Churches leaders of his flocke and the bright lightes of the worlde that ye wil trauaile with vigilant care and diligent admonition to guide Goddes people thorough the pastours of eternal life c. Bringing the stray sheepe into the foulde least the wolfe deuoure them c. Therefore they are with earnest zeale to be admonished and exhorted yea to be compelled to keepe theÌ„ selues in a sure faith and reasonable continuaunce vvithin aÌ„d vnder the rules of the Fathers In the vvhich vvorke and trauaile knovve yee right vvell that our industrie shall vvorke vvith you For vvhich cause also vve haue addressed our messengers vnto you who with you by our authority shal ameÌ„de and correct those thinges that are to be amended And therefore also haue wee added such Canonical constitutions as seemed to vs most necessarie Let no man iudge this to be presumption in vs that we take vpon vs to amende that is amisse to cut of that is superfluous For wee reade in the bookes of Kinges howe the holy Kinge Iosias trauailed goinge the circuites of his Kingdome or visitinge correctinge and admonishinge his people to reduce the whole Kingdome vnto the true Religion and Seruice of God I speake not this as to make my self equal to him in holines but for that we ought alwaies to follovve the examples of the holy Kinges and so much as we can vve are bounde of necessitie to bring the people to follovve vertuous life to the praise and glory of our Lorde Iesus Christ c. And anon after amongest the rules that he prescribeth vnto them this follovveth First of al that al the Bisshoppes and Priestes reade diligentlie the Catholique Faith and preache the same to all the people For this is the first precept of God the Lorde in his Lawe Heare ô Israel c. It belongeth to your offices ô yee pastours and guides of Goddes Churches to sende forth thorough your Diocesses Priestes to preache vnto the people and to see that they preache rightly and honestly That ye doe not suffer newe things not Canonicall of their owne minde forged and not after the holy Scriptures to be preached vnto the people Yea you your owne selues preache profitable honest and true thinges which doe leade vnto eternal life And enstructe you others also that they doe the same Firste of all euery preacher must preache in general that thei beleeue the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost to be an omnipotent God c. And so learnedly proceedeth through al the articles of our Faith after vvhich becommeth to the conuersation of life c. And wee doo therefore more diligeÌ„tlie enioine vnto you this thing because vve knovve that in the latter daies shall come false teachers as the Lorde himselfe
thanking God that had sent home his MarchaÌ„dize so sauflie and so prosperouslie For the poore man such was his wisedome being owner of no part thought al to be his I say it fareth euen so with you M. Horne Of al the good Emperours Kings Fathers and Councelles by you rehearsed crie you as much and as long as ye will that they are al yours yet there is not so much as one yours Ye haue not brought so muche as one authority directly or indirectly coÌ„cluding your purpose Els shew me but one of al the foresaid Authors that saieth that the Pope hath no authoritie either in England or in other countries out of Italie Shew me one that saith either plain words or in equiualent that the Prince is Supreme head in al causes ecclesiasticall Yea shewe me one that auoucheth the Prince to be the Supreme gouernour in any one cause mere ecclesiastical And thinke you now in the folding vp of your conclusion to perswade your Readers that yee haue them all on your side Or blush you not to vaunte that you haue proued your assertion euen by those that your selfe coÌ„fesse were wholy addicted and mancipated to the Pope And what can more euidently descrie and betraie your exceeding follie and passing impudencie then dothe this moste strange and monstrous Paradoxe But who woulde haue thought that of all men in the worlde your Rhethorique would serue you to bring in the most Reuerend Fathers in God by you named as good motiues to perswade M. Fekenham to take this othe which for the refusing of the very same othe were thrust out of their Bishopricks and cast into prison where yet they remaine suche as yet liue This point of rhetorical perswasion neither Demosthenes nor Cicero I trow could euer attaine vnto Seing then all your Rhetorike consisteth in lying and your triumphant conclusioÌ„ is folded vp with a browne dosen of seueral vntruthes allowing you thirteen to the dosen I wil assay M. Horne with more truthe and simplicitie brefely to vnfolde for the Readers better remembraunce and for your comfort the contentes of these three bookes wherin you haue plaied the OpponeÌ„t and haue laied forth the best euideÌ„ces that you could for proufe of your strauÌ„ge and vnheard paradoxe of Princes Supreme GouernmeÌ„t in al ecclesiastical causes I haue therfore not only disproued your proufes al along froÌ„ the first to the laste but I haue also proued the contrary that to priestes not to princes appertaineth the chiefe gouernemeÌ„t in causes Ecclesiastical In the first boke your scripture of the Deuteronom coÌ„mauÌ„deth the king to take of the priests not only the boke of the lawe but also the exposition thereof To your examples of Moyses of Iosue of Dauid of SalomoÌ„ of Iosaphat of Ezechias and of Iosias I haue so answered that it hath euideÌ„tly appeared the Supreme gouernement in spiritual matters to haue rested in the highe Bishops Priestes and Prophetes not in them Moyses only excepted who was a Priest also not only a Prince of the people Your idle obiections out of S. Augustin and of the Donatistes examples haue nothing relieued you but only haue bene occasioÌ„ to make opeÌ„ your extreme folly and to reuele your cousinage with olde heretikes to al the worlde Your Emanuel hath vtterly shamed you and your disorderly talke of CoÌ„stantin hath nothing furdered you Your textes of the newe TestameÌ„t haue bene to to fondly and foolishly alleged to set vp that kinde of gouernemeÌ„t which Christ and the Apostles neuer spake word of Last of all wheras you blindely vttered the state of the Question as one that loued darkenes and shuÌ„ned the light where only Truthe is to be founde I haue opened the same more particularly and discouered withal your double Vntruth aboute the tenour of the Othe Thus muche in the firste booke beside many priuat matters betwene M. Feckenham and you wherein you haue bene taken in manifest forgeryes lyes â–ª and slaunders Besides also a Note of your brethernes obedieÌ„ce to their Supreme Gouernours as well in other Countres â–ª as in these lowe CouÌ„tres here and of their late good rule kept of which I suppose bothe you and your cause shall take small reliefe and lesse honesty In the second booke I haue not only disproued all your pretensed proufes of Princes supreme gouerment in al causes ecclesiasticall but I haue in them all directly proued the popes primacy withall I haue I say shewed the practise of the former .600 yeres namely from Constantin the great downe to Phocas to stande clerely for the popes primacy I haue shewed that Constantin in all his dealinges in the Nicene Councâ—ll against the Donatistes in the matter of Athanasius with the Arrian bishoppes and with Arrius him selfe neuer practised this Supreme Gouuernement which you so fondly vpholde but in al matters Ecclesiasticall yelded the gouuernement thereof vnto Bisshops I haue shewed that the Sonnes of Constantin the greate practised no Supreme gouernement at al in any ecclesiastical cause much lesse in al causes Your next example Valentinian the elder is so farre froÌ„ al gouernement of the lay prince in Ecclesiasticall causes that he decreed the plaine contrary yea and made it lawful in ciuill matters to appeale to the bishoply Iudgement Theodosiê° the great hath bene proued to be no fitte example of your lay supremacy in causes ecclesiastical But in his exaÌ„ple the Popes Primacy is clerly proued namely by a RecoÌ„ciliation made of Flauianus the intruded patriarche of Antioche to pope Damasus aÌ„d also by the letters of the General Councell holden at CoÌ„stantinople vnder this Theodosius In that place also I haue shewed by ten seueral articles what and howe farre Emperours may and haue dealed in General Councelles In the examples of Archadius and Honorius sonnes to this Theodosius as their preteÌ„ded Primacy is proued to be none so the primacy of Innocentius theÌ„ pope is clerly proued as one that for the iniust depositioÌ„ of Iohn Chrisostom excoÌ„municated themperor Archadius the vpholder therof Also of Damasus then pope by the suyte of S. Hierom made vnto him In the example of Theodosius the secoÌ„d and the practise of the Ephesine CouÌ„cel the third General M. Hornes purpose is ouerthroweÌ„ and the popes primacy is by clere practise testified as well by the saied Councâ—ll as also by M. Horns owne Authours Liberatus and Cyrillus The doinges in the cause of Eutyches brought forth by M. Horne to proue the princes Supreme gouernment in al Ecclesiasticall causes do proue clerely the popes primacy euen in the very Author and chapter by maister Horne alleaged Pope Leo strayned by M. Horn to speake somewhat for the Princes Supremacy in matters Ecclesiastical hath spoken and done so much to proue the primacy of the See of Rome that if M. Horn wil stand to his owne Author he is vtterly confounded and forced to agnise the popes primacy without all maner of doubte By the example also
but for the dead also And anon after speaking of the sacrifice of the Masse that you denie and shewing what excellencie in vertue the Bishope or priest ought to haue aboue other he saieth that he must in althings excel other for whō he maketh this intercessiō to God so far as it is mete that the ruler passe and exced the subiect For sayth he whē the priest hath called for the holy Ghost ād hath made the sacrifice which we ought most to reuerence and to tremble and feare at handling continually our common Lord I demaund among what states shal we place him How great integrity shal we loke for at his handes How great holines and deuotiō Cōsider what those hādes ought to be that shal minister such things Cōsider what tong he ought to haue that shal speak such words Cōsider finally that his soule ought to be of all other most pure ād holy that shal receiue so great ād so worthy a spirit At that time he meaneth of the cōsecratiō of the blessed sacrifice the angels are present with the priest and al the orders of the heauēly powers do make a shoute the place that is nigh to the alter is for the honor of him that is sacrificed replenished with the companies of angels Which a man may wel beleue by reason of so great a sacrifice as is then made Thus muche haue I shewed you M. Horne owt of that most learned light of the Greeke Church Ioannes Chrisostomus aswell to cause you to vnderstand your detestable heresie againste the priesthod of the newe testamente as that the priestes haue a dignity and a singular excellēt regimente aboue secular Princes They haue their spirituall sword that two edged sword I say that cutteth both bodie and soule and by excōmunication if the party repent not casteth both into the deape dongeon of hel And shall all this be counted no rule nor regiment M. Horne being in dede the cheif and the principal regimēt of al other It is yt is M. Horn the highest gouernmēt of al other and of greatest charge and importance And muche better may yt be said to this euāgelical pastour that was sayd to Agamēnon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is not mete for him all the night longe to slepe that hath so muche people and suche a charge to kepe Yea ye are forced your self M. Horn to cōfesse yt a spiritual gouernmēt and rule Wherby of necessity followeth the ouerturning and ouerthrowīg of your lay supremacie For these being the chief matters or things Ecclesiasticall as your selfe can not denie and the Prince hauing nothing to doe with them as you also confesse it can not be possible that the Prince should haue the Supremacy in al causes or things Ecclesiastical And so neither M. Fekenham nor any man els may take this othe for feare of euident and open periurie And of all madnes this is a madnes and a most open contradiction to remoue these things from the Prince as ye do and yet to attribute to him without anie exception the supremacy in al things or causes Ecclesiastical Yea and to vrge men by other to confesse the same Which kind of arguing is as wise as if a man woulde affirme God to be the maker of al things the geuer of all things the preseruer of al things and yet by and by to saye God can not geue the effect of grace to externall Sacramentes God can not preserue his owne blessed Mother from al actual or original sinne Whereof will followe that God in dede is not omnipotent or almightie those things being taken awaie from him wherein chieflie his almightie power consisteth For in such miraculous operations surmounting farre al power of men God most proprelie sheweth himselfe a God As in such actes and causes Ecclesiastical as binding and loosing preaching the worde ministring the Sacramēts c. consisteth specially and most proprely the rule and gouernement Ecclesiastical We nede not therfore wrastle with you herein any farther M. Horne seing you can so preatily geue your selfe a notable fall Yet one thing would I faine knowe more of you M. Horne if I may be so bolde and learne what you meane nowe at the length to come in with the supreme Authority and power of the sworde What meane you I say to define vnto vs the one kinde and sorte of gouerning the Churche of God in these wordes by the supreme Authoritie and power of the sword to guide care prouide direct and ayde Gods Church c In all your booke hitherto of such supreme Authoritie and power of the sworde you neuer spake worde Howe chaunceth it then the sworde commeth in nowe Doth the supreme gouernement of the Churche of God consiste in the power of the sworde Then howe was the Church of God gouerned .300 yeres and more before the time of Constantine the Emperour who was the very first as hath bene shewed that by the power of the sworde I saie by the power of the sworde guided cared prouided directed and aided Gods Churche Did the Churche of Christ want a Supreme gouernour all those .300 yeres and more Againe doe the Lawes of the Church take force by the power of the sword You with M. Nowell and with the Acte of Parliament do take away from the clergie the power and Authoritie to make Churche Lawes and Constitutions and you say and swere to that no Conuocation or Councel of Bishops shal or may haue force or Authoritie to decree any Cōstitution Ecclesiastical without the Princes consent licence and supreame authoritie For this purpose also you haue alleaged the practise of so many Coūcels both General and National to make proufe that by the supreame Authoritie of Emperours and Kings Canons and lawes of the Churche haue bene enacted and decreed not by the Bishops and Councels it selfe Wherin how shamefully you haue misreported the whole practise of the Churche I haue sufficiently shewed in the seconde and third Bookes But in all your so long processe you neuer yet openlie said that by the power of the sword suche Canons and Lawes tooke place And come you nowe to saye that all this proceded of the power of the sworde Where is then nowe become the libertie of the Ghospell that your graundsir Luther and all your protestant progenitors of Germany do in al their writings so much extolle maintaine and defende against the Secular swoorde of Ciuill Magistrates Againe you M. Horne that doe force the Scholers of Oxforde to sweare by booke Othe that Scripture onelye is sufficiente to conuince euerye trueth and to destroye all heresies you that will beleue nothing but that as plaine Scripture auoucheth vnto you tell vs I praye you where finde you in all Scripture that the Supreame Authoritie to gouerne the Churche of God is by the power of the swoorde What Did not the Apostles gouerne the Churche of Christe all the time of their abode here in earth And when
disposed he saith this ArgumeÌ„t is much like as if a yong Nouice shuld reason thus NuÌ„nes must kepe sileÌ„ce in the Cloisture therfore the Prioresses haue not the gouernment in NuÌ„nish causes and matters CoÌ„cerning the first part of his answere I say that the argument is good aÌ„d sufficieÌ„t For if teaching preaching and disputing in matters of religioÌ„ be causes and matters ecclesiastical and if womeÌ„ be imbarred froÌ„ this then is there a sufficieÌ„t cause why M. Fekenham may not take this othe that a woman is supreme head in al causes spiritual aÌ„d ecclesiastical Namely to erect and enact a new and proper religioÌ„ throughout her realme by the vertue of her own proper and supreme gouernmeÌ„t For to this end M. Horn is the othe teÌ„dâ—ed It is to euideÌ„t It can not be dissembled Againe the said place of S. Paul is of the order and maÌ„ner of expouÌ„ding of scripture as it appeareth by the text If then S. Paul forbiddeth a woman to expouÌ„d scripture how can a woman take vpon her to be the chief iudge of al those that expouÌ„d the scripture I mean in that very office of expouÌ„ding Scripture in decreeiÌ„g determining and enacting what religion what beliefe what doctrine shal take place And such shee must nedes be if she be a supreme head Suche do you and your fellowes make her Such authority you M. Horn throughout all this boke attribute to your new supreme heads Emperours and KiÌ„gs by you alleaged You make them to preache to teache and to prescribe to the Bishops in their CouÌ„cels what and how they shal do in their ecclesiasticall matters If then by you a supreme Gouerner in ecclesiastical maters must be so qualified as to be present in Councels of Bishops to prescribe rules for the Bishops to follow to determine what they shal do and to coÌ„firme by royal asseÌ„t the decrees of bishops yea and to make them selues decrees and coÌ„stitutions ecclesiastical but a woman by S. Paule may not ones speake in the Church that is in the CoÌ„gregatioÌ„ or assembly of the faithful and by you a womaÌ„ may not preache teach or dispute vndoubtedly both by S. Paul and by your own coÌ„fession a womaÌ„ can not be a supreme Gouernour such as the Othe forceth meÌ„ to swere I say supreme gouernour in al ecclesiastical causes No nor in so many causes by a great deale as you pretend in this your booke other Kings and Princes to haue practised supreme gouernmeÌ„t in CoÌ„sider now M. Horne how it may staÌ„d with S. Paules doctrine that a woman may be a supreme gouerner in al ecclesiastical causes namely such as you in this boke would make your Reader beleue that al Emperours Kings and Princes hitherto haue bene Now put the case as we saw it viij yeres past that in a doubtful matter of doctrine and religion to be tried by scripture the whole number of bishops agree vpoÌ„ some determinate and resolute exposition with their Clergie and would by an Ecclesiastical law of CoÌ„uocation or Councel set forth the same Al their resolutioÌ„ and determination is not worth a rush by your Othe and by your maner of talke in this booke if the Prince doe not allowe and coÌ„firme the same And how this wil staÌ„d with S. Paul in this chapter tel vs I pray you presupposing as the statute requireth that the Princes allowing though she be a woman is necessary And now are ye come to thâ—s point and driueÌ„ therto by the force of this place to say that the place doth not proue but a womaÌ„ may haue some gouernmeÌ„t in ecclesiastical causes As though the QuestioÌ„ were now of some gouernmeÌ„t only and not of Supreme and absolute Gouernment in al maner thinges and causes ecclesiastical If therefore this place do proue that a womaÌ„ hath not the Supreme and absolute gouernement in all causes ecclesiasticall but that in some and them the chiefest she must holde her peace as yt doth euideÌ„tly and ye can not denie yt then is M. Fekenham free froÌ„ taking the othe of the supremacy and then hath S. Paule vtterly confuted that Othe and your whole booke withal This I say also as by the way that yf this chapter must be taken for teaching preaching and disputing as M. Horne saith and truely that M. Iewell went far wide froÌ„ S. Paules meaning when he applied yt to the coÌ„mon seruice of the Church whereof it is no more meaÌ„t theÌ„ of the coÌ„moÌ„ talke in tauernes As for M. Hornes secoÌ„d mery mad obiectioÌ„ no maÌ„ is so mad to make such an argumeÌ„t but hiÌ„self And therfore he may as long and as iolily as he wil triuÌ„ph with him self in his own folly Yet I would wish M. Horne to speake wel of Nunnes were it but for his grandsir Luthers sake and the heaueÌ„ly coniunctioÌ„ of him and a Nonne together Which vnhappy coÌ„iunction of that VulcaÌ„ and Venus engeÌ„dred the vnhappy brood of M. Horn aÌ„d his felowes But that this folish fond argumeÌ„t is nothing like to M. FekenhaÌ„s argumente yt may easely be proceiued by that we haue alredy and sufficiently sayde M. Fekenham The .159 Diuision pag. 98. a. The third chiefe point is that I must not only sweare vpon the Euangelists that no foraine personne state or potentate hath or ought to haue any power or authoritie Ecclesiastical or Spiritual within this Realme but also by vertue of the same Othe I must renounce all forraine power and authorities which for a Christian man to doe is directly against these two Articles of our Crede Credo sanctaÌ„ ecclesiaÌ„ CatholicaÌ„ I do beleue the holy catholik â—hurch Credo SanctoruÌ„ coÌ„munioneÌ„ I do beleue the coÌ„munioÌ„ of saints And that there is a participatioÌ„ and coÌ„munion amongest al the beleuers of Christes Church which of the Apostle Paule are called Saincts Adiuro vos per DominuÌ„ vt legatur haec Epistola omnibus sanctis fratribus And herin I do ioyne this issue with your L. that whaÌ„ your L. shal be able to proue by Scripture Doctor General CouÌ„cell or by the coÌ„tinual practise of any one Church or part of al ChristeÌ„dome that by the first Article I beleue the holy Catholik Church is meant only that there is a Catholike Church of Christ and not so that by the same article euery ChristiaÌ„ man is bound to be subiect and obedient to the Catholike Church like as euery member ought to haue obedieÌ„ce vnto the whole mystical bodie of Christ. And further when you shall be hable to proue by the second Article I dooe beleue the Communion of Saints is not so meante that a Christian man oughte to beleeue such attonement suche a participation and communion to be amongest al beleeuers and members of Christes Catholike Churche in doctrine in faith in Religion and Sacramentes but that it is laufull for vs of this Realme therein to dissent from the Catholike Churche of Christe dispersed in all other Realmes and that by a corporal Othe it is laufull for