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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A48863	The harmony between the old and present non-conformists principles in relation to the terms of conformity, with respect both to the clergie, and the people : wherein a short history of the original of the English liturgy, and some reasons why several truly conscientious Christians cannot joyn with the church in it : humbly presented to publick consideration in order to the obtaining some necessary relaxation and indulgence : to which are added some letters that pass'd between the Lord Cecil, and Arch-bishop Whitgift.	Lobb, Stephen, d. 1699.; Whitgift, John, 1530?-1604.; Burghley, William Cecil, Baron, 1520-1598.	1682 (1682)	Wing L2726; ESTC R23045	77,527	105

mysteries unto us There is I confess a distinction between Faith and Manners when we come to sort and sever the things contained in the Word into the kinds of duties imposed but when we consider them in the Rule and Principle of the word it self from which the Conscience is certainly inform'd and bound there is no difference but they are all of faith alike even as the same sap which in the branches distinct unto leaves and blossomes was in the Root but one whence it followes that nothing can be properly Canonical unto manners but the same was first Canonical unto faith for we therefore stand undoubtedly perswaded that thus we ought to do because we first believe that God himself would have us to do so and hath reveal'd it to us as his will By this it seems evident that the distinction between Canon of faith and of manners as us'd by the Bishops is idle and impertinent and that therefore notwithstanding all has been said by Mr. Hutton it remains as an undoubted truth that the Service Book doth consider the Apocripha as Canonical as a part of the Holy Scriptures the pure Word of God which is no more than what may be inferred from their confounding the Apocriphal with the Canonical books as may be seen in their great Bible Authorized to be read where dividing the books of the Old Testament into Legal Historical Sapiential and Prophetical In the Historical they place 19 books amongst which they reckon the third and fourth books of Esdras the books of Tobith and Judith the two books of Maccabees and the rest of the Chapters of Esther making the book of Esther to consist of 16 Chapters and then to be part of that book In the Sapiential they place 5 books whereof they reckon the books of Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus for two calling the book of Wisdom the Wisdom of Solomon In the Prophetical they place 18 books of which they reckon Baruch the Prophet and Susanna Bell and the Dragon making the same all one with Daniel consisting of 14 Chapters What can be more clear than this sayes the Defender of the Reasons c. Where to sayes the same Author if we add the book of Homilies how it divers times calleth these Apocriphal Books Holy Scriptures in the same sense wherein the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament are so called saying in the alledging Tobith and Ecclesiasticus the Holy Ghost speaketh so in the Scriptures thereby giving the same Authority and Title with Zechary Luke 1. and the Author to the Hebrews Ch. 3. 7. give to the Holy Prophets in their writing of places out of the Old Testament Thus 't is evident That according to the Service Book and the Sentiments of some great Bishops the great Bible and Book of Homilies the Apocripha is consider'd as a part of the Holy Scriptures The which truth abides in its strength notwithstanding what is argued from the Book of Articles where 't is sufficiently manifest that the Apocripha are no part of the Holy Scriptures for this doth but discover the contradiction there is between the book of Articles and the Service book c. whereby the Non-Conformists are but supply'd with an unanswerable argument against subscription which I 'll give in the words of the Devonshire Ministers viz. That to subscribe to the Service Book is contrary to our Subscription to the Book of Articles the 6 Article whereof under the name of Holy Scriptures understanding only the Canonical Books of the Old and New Testament there mentioned whereof the Apocrypha Books are none and therefore they conclude they cannot safely subscribe because they shall subscribe to two books one contrary to another This being so clear namely that the Apochripha Books are appointed to be read as a part of the Holy Scriptures and as the Canon and Rule of manners I 'll proceed to shew what has been objected against it Not that I 'll trouble the Reader with all but onely with two or three particulars 1. Hereby their error who account these Books Canonical Scripture is confirm'd This was sayes the Lincoln Abridgment the only reason that moved the third Councill of Carthage to decree that they should be held Canonical because they had received from the Fathers that they were to be read in the Church And Bellarmine makes this one of his best reasons to prove that the authority of these books is Divine and Canonical because they are now and have been of old read by the Church in the publique Assemblies so do the Papists in that Book they have lately Published called the Three Conversions of England And Gregory Martin reasoneth thus Their own Service book saith he appointeth these books of Toby and Ecclesiasticus to be read for Holy Scriptures as the other Do they read in their Churches Apocryphal and Superstitious Books for Holy Scriptures so clear it is that the very Papists are confirm'd in their error by this practise of the Church 2. The reading these books though but as the Canon and Rule manners tends so very much to the corrupting the manners of men in some things that the Dissenters can in no way approve of it In the defence of the Devonshire and Cornish Ministers reasons 't is thus argued If the Apocriphal Books be Canonical as teaching manners then whatsoever point of manners those books do commend unto us either by Precept or allowed Example we not only may but must observe it for Conscience sake as a divine Rule or Canon 'T is true hereby a late Order which was that the wicked Dissenters if poor receive not Almes will be defended for 't is but according to the command in Ecclesiasticus 12. 5. where 't is expresly said Give not to the Vngodly hold back thy bread and give it not unto him least he over-master thee thereby But how agreable this Precept is unto the pure word of God or the light of nature let a common capacity judge but though this practice is enjoyn'd to the defence of that but now mention'd order yet there are other allowed and highly approv'd practises which are most odious in the apprehension of the Dissenter and are really abhor'd by all but bloody Papists For Judiths tricking up her self on purpose to tempt and ensnare the heart of Holofernes to uncleanness her compassing an Irreligious Governour by fraud by lies by oaths and protestations in the name of God to the end she might the more assuredly murder him is not only an allowed but a practice highly approv'd of by the book of Judith that is appointed to be read in October The children of Israel though now return'd from the Babylonian Captivity yet to the very time Holofernes was murdered by Judith they remained under the Government of the Emperour The Emperour though an Idolater yet their Lawfull Governour whose Government they should not have shaked off by frauds by lies equivocations and other sinfull practices which yet Judith did to the gaining the greatest applause and

commendation The which is read in the Church as the Rule of manners whereas in truth 't is meet only for the countenancing the unjustifiable treasons of the Papists to which purpose it has been improv'd by Saunders de schismate who inciting the English Ladies professing the Popish Religion to murder Queen Elizabeth and all her Favourers calling her Holofernes the Heretical Prince did prove from this example of Judith that they might do it without any the least stain or blot to their Religion This is urg'd in the defence of the reason of the Devonshire and Cornish Ministers from whence I would query whether a person fully convinc'd of that if the book of Judith must be read as the Rule of manners this allowed practice of Judith must be in the like case imitated ought not rather to abandon the reading or hearing of these books then presume to enter on the practises of murdering by lies deceits c. I verily believe that the Non-Conformists rather than that they would imitate Judith in these things would rather be expos'd to the worst of miseries whereby they would more effectually demonstrate to the World the Loyalty of their Principles than by their Conformity There are several other things that must be practised if the Apocriphal Books be embrac'd as the Rule of manners unto which the Dissenters cannot conform But designing to be short I will at this time wave the considering them and proceed to shew the sense some of the Old Church of England Protestants had of these books as I find it in the Abridgment 3. The Old Church of the Jewes saith Dr. Whitaker never vouchsafed the Apocriphal Books so much honour as to read 'em publiquely which also the Learned hold to be a good president for us to follow The Council of Hippo sayes Bishop Jewell speaking of the Canonical Scriptures decreed that besides them nothing might be read in the Church The Council held at Laodicea decreed on the Sabbath we may not read any books that be without the Canon but only the Canonical books of the Old and New Testament To the like effect Chrysostom speaks sayes the same Jewell and as Bishop Jewell so Bishop Horn and Bishop Pilkinton asserts the French Church by the constitutions of Lewes and Charles were against the reading of the Apocrypha Whoever will diligently compare what Protestant writers offer against Apocryphal books with the books themselves will find so many idle stories and fables so many errors and ill presidents in it that they cannot but conclude with Dr. Sutcliff That it is impudence in the Papists that they match Apocryphal books and Legends with the Scriptures or at least read them in the Churches together with the Scriptures From the whole hath been said on this particular I inferr that 't is but charity to conclude that some Dissenters may receive such strong convictions concerning the unlawfulness of conforming to this part of the Liturgy that their Non-conformity may be more justly esteemed the product of Conscience than the Off-spring of obstinacy and an unreasonable Humour Argument II. II. Some Dissenters cannot Conscientiously approve of the Translation of the Psalmes which is read at the ordinary Lord's dayes service because 't is not only imperfect but moreover in some places senseless and absurd and in other places false directly contradicting our last Translation of the Psalmes in the Bible The Translation now us'd is the same set forth in the times of ignorance when the light of the truth did but begin to dawn in Henry the 8th dayes and is 1. Imperfect because among many other omissions all the Titles though a part of the original and very usefull are left out 2. Sensless and absurd for Psal 58. 9. where our Translation has it thus viz. before your pots can feel the Thorns he shall take them away with a Whirl-wind both living and in his wrath In the Service Book Translation 't is or ever your pots be made hot with Thorns so let indignation vex them as a thing that is raw So Psal 72. 6. He shall come down like rain upon the mowen grass This in the common prayer is Translated thus he shall come down like the rain into a fleece of Wool This our Old Protestant divines look'd upon as a corruption in the Papists not to be approved but can it be less so when done by the sons of the Church of England Fulk Withers Bulkley Whitaker and others have blamed the Rhemists Translation because 't is in many places senseless and absurd for which reason seeing the Translation of the Psalmes in the Service Book is as senseless in some things as that of the Rhemists is in other 't is as much to be blamed and as little to be approv'd But this is not all for this Translation in Henry the 8th is not only imperfect absurd and senseless but moreover in some places contrary to the original not only in the opinion of Dissenters but also in the judgment of those who were the Authours of the best Translation that ever was in English 1. The Psalter has it in Psal 17. 4. Thus because of mens works that are done against the words of thy lips I have kept me from the wayes of the destroyer but more agreeably to the Original our Translation is thus concerning the works of men by the words of thy lips I have kept me from the paths of the destroyer whereby 't is apparent that not mens works that are done against the words of God's lips kept David right but concerning mens works David was kept from the paths of the destroyer by the words of God's lips 2. In Psal 18. 26. The Psalter sayes that with the froward thou shalt learn frowardness but according to the Hebrew 't is as our last translation in the Bible has it with the froward thou shalt shew thy self froward 3. In the Psalter Psal 68. 6. 't is thus he is the God that maketh men to be of one mind in an house whereas according to the Hebrew 't is God setteth the solitary in Families 4. In the Psalter Psal 107. 40. Though he suffer them to be evil intreated through Tyrants but according to the Hebrew in our Bibles He poureth contempt upon Princes But 5. In Psal 105. 28. The Psalter sayes And they were not obedient unto his word but the Hebrew And they rebelled not against his word or were not disobedient to his word And in Psal 106. 30. The Psalter has it Then stood up Phineas and Prayed and so the Plague ceased But our Bibles then stood up Phinehas and executed judgment and the Plague ceased which is not only most agreeable to the Hebrew in this place but moreover to the History in number 25. 7 8. Such as conform to the ordinary Lord's dayes Service must not only shew their approbation to the many idle Stories in the Apocryphal books and give 'em that countenance that alone pertains to the pure word of God but besides must lay

only form of prayer to be us'd in publique II. But to be more particular there are many among the Dissenters who are furnish'd with such Arguments as the Reader may find in the Abridgment of that book which the Ministers of Lincoln Diocess deliver'd to the King Anno 1605. as also in a part of the Register and among the reasons for Refusal of Subscription exhibited to Cotton Bishop of Exeter by the Devonshire and Cornish Ministry and in several other discourses as in Bayly's Parallel of the Liturgy with the mass-Mass-book Ames his fresh suit against Ceremonies c. The which have fix'd such strong convictions on the Consciences of some Dissenters concerning the unlawfulness of the present Liturgy that they cannot safely joyn with any in the use of it Though some who have not receiv'd such powerfull impressions from the weight of those Arguments can read the Common Prayer and joyn with such as do to the end they may save themselves from the severity of Penal Lawes yet other Dissenters will rather submit themselves to the greatest extremities than venture to dishonour God by doing what they are convinc'd is a sin That the Reader may be mov'd to entertain some charitable thoughts concerning such persons and that the common objection that is laid in against their Non-Conformity which is Humour and Fancy and a Peevish Obstinacy may be fully answered I 'll give an Historical Account of some of those Arguments which do so fully convince some Dissenters that they cannot without laying an unnatural violence on their Families conform Argument I. I. They are perswaded that according to the Rubrick the same honour is put on the Apocryphal Books which is due alone to the Sacred Scriptures For they are appointed to be read as a part of the Old Testament without any note of difference from the Canonical In a discourse before the Common Prayer concerning the Service of the Church 't is asserted that nothing is ordained to be read but the very Pure word of God the Holy Scriptures or that which is agreable to the same beside this after the order how the Psalter is to be read 't is said in the Title how the rest of Holy Scripture is to be read under which Title several orders are to be found Namely 1. The Old Testament is appointed for the first Lessons at Morning and Evening Prayer so as the most part thereof will be read every year once and in the 3d. order 't is said that to know what Lessons shall be read every day look for the day of the Month in the Kalendar following and there ye shall find the Chapters that shall be read for the Lessons both at Morning and Evening Prayer and in the Rubrick after the Psalms are read 't is order'd that then shall be read distinctly with an audible voice the First Lesson taken out of the Old Testament as it is appointed in the Kalendar whereby 't is evident that what is appointed in the Kalendar to be read for the First Lesson is consider'd as a part of the Old Testament the Holy Scripture the pure word of God But the Apocryphal books are in the Kalendar appointed to be read for First Lesson for almost Two Months together even from the latter end of September untill November 24th beside the Holy dayes on which these books are appointed to be read To which add that this is done to the constant neglect of reading a great part of the Sacred Scriptures namely the two books of Chronicles Solomons Song and a great part of the Revelations That 't is the appointment of the Church to read the Apocryphal books as a part of the Holy Scriptures is farther confirm'd by Archbishop Bancroft in the conference held at Hampton Court where as the abridgment has it he tax'd Jerom for calling these books Apocrypha and said he was the first that gave them that name and called his objections against them the old Cavills of the Jews And the Bishops of Winchester affirm'd at the same time that they must needs be held Canonici ad informandos mores Canonical for the information of manners To these I 'll add what Mr. Hutton in his answer unto the reasons of the Ministers of Devon and Cornwall to this very objection They are saith he called Holy Scriptures in a signification at large because the subject they entreat of is God his Love Power our Sanctification and Obedience to him And they may be held Canonical wholsom Doctrines being thence deduced though not simply of themselves yet wherein they agree with the Canon as also because they may serve as they alwayes heretofore have done for a rule to direct and order our Conversation aright In this answer though he seems without the approbation of the Rubrick to make a difference between the Sacred Scriptures and the Apocrypha books yet at length falls in with the Bishop of Winchester asserting that they are a Canon or Rule to direct our Conversation aright But in opposition hereunto 't is generally by sound Protestants asserted 1. That the Apocryphal books are not a part of the Holy Scriptures the pure word of God 2. That there are several things appointed to be read which are not agreable to the word of God nor can be defended by any sound Protestant To make this point the more clear I 'll give the Reader an account of what is reply'd to the distinction of the Bishop of Winchester about the Canon of Faith and Manners and then offer what arguments have been urg'd against this practice of the Church In the second part of the defence of the reasons of the Devonshire and Cornish Ministers 't is thus reply'd to the aforesaid distinction But that we may farther see how heartless and unsound this distinction of Canonical for manners but not for Faith is let us observe how they here make a distinction of faith and manners where none is for all Doctrines of God's word are in this respect Doctrines of faith whether they concern matters of believing or of other Conversation of life wherefore the Apostle hath coupled them together in that place to Timothy saying all Scripture given by inspiration of God c. shewing us thereby that upon one and the same divine Revelation our knowledge and practice both must be grounded And I would entreat these men that give us this distinction to tell us whether it be not a point of faith That we must worship one God and him after his own manner reverencing his Name and keeping his Sabbaths c. And whether it be not a point of faith That we must honour our Parents and Superiors that we must not Kill commit Adultery Steal Slander Covet And whether our Consciences be not bound in these things by the Divine Testimony as well as in any point of our understanding surely unless our Divinity faileth all the word of God is the object of Faith that as well which directeth to manners as that which revealeth