their aduetsaries it is well knowne that Master Charke and the ministers of the Church are none such neither haue they anie such authoritie It remaineth then that he accounteth the Prince her councell magistrates and ministers of Iustice his aduersaries who indeede haue good cause so to be not onelie in respect of their heresyes but also in regard of their manifolde and almoste infinite practises of treason against the Prince and realme for which some of them haue suffered moste iustlie and not for offering of disputation as this traiterous heretike euerie where moste slaunderouslie doth avowe But nowe for their partes he saith they offere the best surest and easiest meanes that can be deuised or that haue bene vsed in Gods Churches for triall and they are manie in number The first is the bookes of Scripture receiued vpon the credit of the auncient Church of which we are content saith he to accept for canonicall and allowe all those and none other which antiquitie in Christendome hath agreed vpon But this is false for to omit that they receiue for canonicall such as the Church of God before Christ neuer receiued they receiue also such as the greatest and best antiquitie in Christendome receiued not as the Church in Origens time witnesse Eusebius more then the Church of Rome receiued in Saint Ieromes witnesse Ierome himselfe prologo Galeato and Ruffinus in Expossymb more then the Councell of Laodicea did receiue for canonicall as is manifest by the 59. canon The second way of trial is the expresse plaine words of Scripture wherein they must needs be farre superior for what one expresse plaine text haue they saith he in anie one point or article against vs which we doe not acknowledge liberallie as they doe and as the wordes doe lie yes we haue manie but a fewe shal serue for example God saith Exod. 20. Thou shalt not make to thy selse anie grauen image c. thou shalt not fall down to thē nor worship them Againe Matt. 4. Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him onelie shalt thou serue Which are moste plaine expresse and manifest against worshipping of Images and other creatures in anie vse of Religion Christ saith drinke ye all of this they be expresse and manifest wordes against the popish sacriledge of the cuppe The 14. to the Corinthians the first Epistle is expresse and plaine against publike praiers homilies lessons in a straunge vnknowne tongue 1. Tim. 4. in expresse and plaine wordes the spirite pronunceth the forbidding of marriage and meates to be the doctrine of deuilles And Heb. 13. Mariage is honourable in all men And 1. Tim. 3. Tit. 1. a Bishop Elder or Deacon must be the husband of one wife beside a great number more But the papists saith our answerer haue infinit texts against vs which we cannot admit without glosses and fond interpretations of our owne A bolde speach as alwaies he vseth but it shall alwaies be founde that if we doe in anie text departe from the grammaticall sense there is necessarie cause why as if it be a figuratiue spcach which is tried either by circumstances of the same place or by other texts of scriptures for the most parte hath the iudgement of the most auncient writers agreing with our interpretation But the most of these examples he bringeth haue nothing in shewe that the expresle wordes of scripture are with them or against vs but by their fonde false vnreasonable collections and such as they can neuer conclude in lawful true syllogismes as for example We haue it saith he for the supremacie expresselie saide to Peter that signifieth arocke vpon this rock will I builde my Church We answere that we might followe the interpretation of the most auncient and approoued fathers that the rocke here spoken of is Christ whom Peter confessed but graunting them that they could neuer euict we confesse that the Church is builded vpon the foundation of Peter the Apostle but not vpon him alone or more principallie then vpon all the Apostles who are all rockes or stones vpon whose foundation as also vpon the foundation of the Prophets the Church of Christ is builded Neither is it possible to prooue the supremacie of the Pope out of those wordes of scripture or anie other But they haue further expresselie touching the Apostles he that is great among you let him be as the younger Luk. 22. We haue no where there is none greater then other among you Neither do we holde that none ought to be greater then other among vs but that the greatest among the ministers ought to be seruant of all the rest and that none ought to exercise Dominion ouer the Lordes inheritaunce yet the primacie of order we graunt euen among the Apostles according to which Iames was president of the Councell at Ierusalem Peter the cheife Aposlle of the circumcision Paull of the gentiles all which will not serue one whit to maintaine the popish tiranny For Paul was nothing inferiour to the highest Apostles But for the reall presence they haue expreslie This is my bodie we haue no where this is the signe of my bodie Neither doe we denie the sacrament to be the bodie of Christ neither doe we affirme that it is a bare signe But that this is a figuratiue speach we haue expreslie This cuppe is the newe Testament in my blood and as expreslie the Apostle speaking of the same sacrament the rocke was Christ which prooueth that it must be vnderstoode in a sigue and after a spirituall manner and so doe al the olde Doctors interpretit as hath beene often shewed We haue expreslie saith he The bread that I will giue you is my flesh Iohn 6. they haue nowhere It is but the signe of my flesh And we confesse as much for we neuer saide that the signe of Christs flesh was crucified for vs but his verie naturall bodie which he promiseth in that text to giue for the life of the world which by faith and the spirit of God is made the spirituall foode of all the elect children of God and without eating of which none can be saued Ioh. 6. 53. But they haue expresly A man is iustified by works and not by faith onelie Iames. 2. we haue no where a man is iustified by faith alone no nor that he is iustified by faith without workes talking of workes that followe faith First we confesse the text that a man is iustified by workes As Abraham was when he offered his sonne and as Rahab was when she receiued the spies that is a man is declared to be iust in the sight of men For Abraham was iustified before God by faith before he offered his sonne whome God did not trie to enforme himselfe but to declare vnto men by the fruites of obedience that Abraham was a iust man euen so by faith the harlot Rahab perished not with the vnbeleeuers when the receiued the spies in peace but by receiuing
her not doth better Whereof we inferre that virginitie is more acceptable and meritorious before God then mariage although mariage be holie No saie our adversaries Saint Paull meaneth onelie that he doth better before men and in respect of worldlie commmodities but not before God If you aske him which of his aduersaries doe saie so he is not able to name one for in truth we neuer saide so not thinke so But that which he saith they doe infer vpon the text that virginitie is more meritorious before God the mariage we doe vtterlie denie and we saie furthet that all the Papists in the world shal neuer be able by lawfull and true arguments to infer so much vpon these wordes of the text or to iustifie this kinde of inferring virginitie is better before God ergo it is more meritorious for the antecedent which we graunt doth not prooue the conclusion which we denie Therefore when out of the circumstances of the text he prooueth that virginitie is better in respect of God as a more excellent gift of God he taketh more paines then he needeth For we confesse as much that he that ioyneth not his virgin doth better not onelie in respecte of worldlie commodities or before men but also that shee maie be holie before the Lord in bodie and spirit c. then he that ioyneth her in mariage but that he doth better in respect of merite reward in the life to come as the answerer saith it doth not follow thereof I meane for the merite As for the reward which God bestoweth of his meere mercie doth not prooue anie merite or desert of the partie rewarded For he which vseth the gift of God well by the power and strength which he hath of God shall of Gods goodnesse not misse of his reward but he cannot therebie claime reward of dutie or of merit neither doth the text alleadged by him prooue any such thing Some Eunuchs haue gelded them-selues for the kingdome of heauen therefore they haue deserued the kingdome of heauen therebie Such licentious kinde of inferring will not onelie make poperie to stand if it were lawfull but also might be able to iustifie all heresies that euer were by scripture But bring these illations or inferrings to the iudgement seate of Logicke and they will easilie appeare to be voluntarie glosles and not true expositions or necessarie collections Yet these new doctors saith our answerer doe contemne and 〈◊〉 all authoritie antiquitie wit learning sanctitie of our forefathers and of all men yea of their owne new doctors and masters when they come to be contrarie to any new deuise or later fansie of theirs Because we may not receiue euerie interpretation or opinion of euerie of the fathers he maketh this hideous outcrie against vs. And yet we are alwaies readie to shew and haue often performed the same that in the most and greatest controuersies the auncient Doctors are against them verie cleere on our side Therefore it is an impudent slaunder that we reiect or contemne all authoritie antiquitie witte c. of our forefathers as it is a ridiculous argument that he bringeth of our dissent from our late doctors and masters as he termeth them because we follow not the error of Luther about the reall presence and the vse of Images as for the number of the sacraments and bookes of the Bible we holde with Luther in his last iudgement when he was best instructed in those cases The order of seruice is free for euerie Church to vse diuerselie as maie serue best for edification The popish Churches haue diuers vses of seruice as Sarum Yorke Bangor Hereford in England they had how manie then diuers orders abroade But Caluine he saith is reiected about the head of the Church in England which is a manifest vntrueth for Caluin is euen of the same iudgement concerning the Princes authoritie in causes ouer persons Ecclesiasticall as is euident in his Institutions that we are in England onelie he misliked the terme supreme heade as offensiue though not euill as it was vnderstood of the godlie and that terme is forborne in England for the same cause and another of supreme gouernour vsed which signifyeth as much as was ment by the other when it was rightlie vnderstoode As for the gouernment of the Church in Geneua Caluine did neuer binde all other Churches to vse the same what other pointes are reiected in Beza he hath no leisure to tell vs. But that all the Churches of the Protestants as he calleth vs in Europe do agree in the chiefe and principall articles of Religion the Harmonie of their confessions latelie set forth in print doth giue ful moste sufficient testimonie Ceremonies and for me of externall gouernment were neuer in gods Church accounted necessarie to be all one in euerie particular Church And some men maie haue their priuat opinions sometime perhapes vntrue yet retaining the vnitie of faith in the chiefe grounds and foundation of Religion with them that dissent from them either iustlie or vniustlie Wherefore our answerers finall conclusion doth not followe that Protestants will haue onelie that to be taken for trueth which they last agree vpon and their wordes must be the one ie proofe thereof whereas the worlde can testifye that the holie scripture is our ground and from thence we challenge the best proofe not refusing any other lawful proofes that wil stand with the iudgement of holie scripture where it is most plaine and easie to be vnderstoode euen without anie interpretations The bookes of the scripture we receiue which the Church of God among the Iewes before Christ and the moste auncient Church of the Gentiles since Christ hath receiued and allowed the sense we take euen out of the same bookes and bring no foreine sense vnto them all writtings of men olde and new we examine according to the same praising God for such helpe as we haue by his giftes in them to vnderstand his word yet leauing to them without reproch such things as proceeded from them selues without the warrant of that worde and this haue all true Catholikes alwaies done and no heretike is able to doe albeit he woulde professe neuer so much to doe To the former slaunders our answerer will haue vs adioyne this that our aduersaries saith he notwithstanding all request sute offer or humble petition that we can make will come to no publike disputation or other indifferent and lawfull iudgement but doe persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer the same Touching anie lawful request sute or humble petition made in due manner to them that haue authoritie to graunt I neuer hard of anie onelie the seditious challenge of Campian is all the request sute offer and humble petition that he is able to prooue was euer made by them for anie such matter before the publishing of this answere of his As for them that persecute imprisone torment and slaughter them which offer disputation which he calleth
the Lordes daie Here you cauill that there is no mention of Saturdaie or sondaie much lesse of celebration of either and least of all of the changeing of the Sabbath into an other daie But if it please your Censurship are you ignorant what day of the weeke is called dies Dominicus the Lordsday whether saturdaie or sondaie if it be sondaie as al professors of Christes name confesse here is as much mention thereof as is needfull for the daie into which the change is made Or if that be not sufficient you maie haue further Act. 20. 7. 1. Cor. 16. 2. And whie is the first of the Sabbath called the Lordes daie but in respect of the celebration there of in honour of the redemption of the world by Christ For otherwise all daies of the weeke are the Lordes daies in respect of their creation Thirdlie seeing the Lordes daie was one daie in the weeke vsed for the assemblie of the Church for their spirituall exercises of Religion it is certaine that the change of the Iewish Sabbath was made into that daie except you would be so waywatd to saie there were two daies in euerie weeke appointed by God to be celebrated whereas the lawe of God requireth but one and giueth libertie of bodelie exercise in sixe daies So that the change of the Sabbath daie is sufficientlie prooued out of the Scripture into the Lordes daie The sixt point is about foure Gospells and the Epistle to the Romanes which Master Charke saith to be prooued out of the scripture but yet he quoteth no place of scripture where onelie he saith the inscription expresseth the names of the writers But what a mocker is this you saie Are the bare names of the Apostles sufficient to prooue that they were written by them who can prooue by scripture that these names are not counterfet as in the Epistle to the Laodiceans in the Gospells of Bartholomew and Thomas c. But abide you sir your question hath two branches the one that the 4. Go spells are true Gospells the other that the epistle to the Romanes was written by Saint Paul and not that to the Laodiceans To the former it is answered that they are prooued by other vndoubted bookes of the scripture both of the olde testament and the new secing they declare that to be fullfilled of Christ which was spoken in the lawe in the Prophetes and in the Psalmes To the other it is answered that admitting the Epistle to the Romanes to be scripture the inscription of his name is sufficient to prooue that it was written by Saint Paull And so of therest Although the name of the writer is not materiall vnto saluation when the booke is receiued to be Canonicall as diuers bookes of scripture are receiued whose writer is vnknowne That Epistle which is called to the Laodicians is not receiued and therefore the inscription is vnsufficient as the Gospelles of Bartholomew and Thomas and such like which are knowne to be countefet by the dissent they haue from the other canonicall scriptures Whereas you require one place of Scripture to prooue all the foure Gospelles to be canonicall you declare your wrangling and wayward spirit But name you anie one point of Doctrine writen in anie of those foure Gospells and the same shall be aduouched by other textes of scripture and so maie eucrie point conteined in them if neede were But you affirme that Origen saith he reiecteth the Gospell of Saint Thomas onelie for that the tradition of the Church receiued it not Which is false He saith he hath read the Gospell after Thomas after Mathias and manie other Sed in his omnibus nihil aliud probamus niss quod Ecclesia idest quatuor tantùm euangelia recipienda But in all these we allowe nothing els but that which the Church alloweth that is that onelie foure Gospells are to be receiued In these wordes he affirmeth that he approoueth the iudgment of the Church he saith not that the iudgement or traditions of the Church was the onelie cause whie he reiected those Gospells for he said before they were receiued of heretikes and wherefore but in maintenance of their heresie which is contrarie to the holie scriptures That all counterfet Go spells were reiected by the Church it is confessed but the Church had this iudgement of discretion confirmed by the canonical scriptures against which Epiphanius saith nothing But when Faustus the Manichie denied the Gospell of Saint Mathew saie you saith not S. Augustine Mathaei Euangelium probatum aduersus Faustum Manichaeum per traditionem The Gospell of Mathew was alleged against Faustus the Manichie by tradition August lib. 28. Cont. Faust. c. 2. If you aske me I saie no he hath no such wordes Yet doth he auouch the Gospell of Saint Mathew in that Chapter by testimonie of the Church from the Apostles by continuall succession euen vnto his time against the Maniches but in far other words then you haue set downe in steed of Saint Augustines wordes by which the reader maie once against perceiue how impudentlie and ignorantlie you ailedge whatsoeuer the note booke which was neuer of your own gatheriug because you vnderstood it not did minister vnto you For these are the wordes of the collector of your notes not of S. Augustine Maie not the papists haue great ioie of such a Cenfure defender Yet you triumph like a Iustie champion and aske what can be more euident then all this to prooue our opinion of the necessitie of tradition to confound the fonde madnes of this poore Minister Alas poore defender what waightie euidencethou hast brought to prooue the necessity of tradition which prooueth thee to be a blind beggerlie yet a bolde brocher of other mens notes which thou vnderstandest not thy selfe The seuenth doctrine which is required to be prooued out of the scripture is that God the father begat his sonne onelie by vnderstanding him-selfe Here Master Charke in steede of these darke wordes out of Thomas how the father begat the sonne wisheth cleare and perfect wordes in so high a mysterie which you saie are plaine and vsuall to those which haue studied any thing in diuinitie As though there were no diuinitie in the holie scriptures and so many of the auncient fathers which haue neither this question nor these wordes but that al diuinity were included in the brest of Thomas Aquinas and such doctors as he was That he quoteth a place or two of the scripture to prooue that Christ was the onelie begotten sonne of God you make smal account of seeing the question is of the māner how this generation maybe which the Church de fendeth against the aduersaries And here you insult against M. chark as ignorant in those high points of diuinitie whereas Catholiks know what the Church hath determined herein against heretikes and infidels as though either of both cared for the Churches determination if the one were not vanquished by scripture the other by right reason
of the canonicall scripture which was receiued by Christ and his Apostles and the primitiue Church long after them But the Papists adde of their owne authoritie to the holie canon and therefore as much are they subiect to gods curse as if they did take away Neither doth Luther discredit or deface the whol epistle of Saint Iames as you saie although in comparison of some other bookes of scripture by a similitude he maketh it farre inferior to them What Doctor Fulke and Master Whitaker haue written the one of the booke of Maccaebees the other of Tobie they haue sufficientlie maintained in their replies whereunto I remit the reader and for Master Charkes reuiling of Iudith to the reporte of the disputation in which your impudent slaunder is confuted Where you conclude that no man in the world euer spake more reuerentlie of holie scripture then Iesuites do you ouer reach very much as you do very often They which teach that the holyscripture is sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation speake more reuerently then the Iesuits whichdeny the sufficiency of the scripture for the instru ction of the Church Last of al the Censure ridiculously charged M. Charke with fraudulent translation of this worde Immaculata when he alledgeth this text psal 19. as oppo sit to your nose of waxe The law of the Lord is perfect out of the original tongue the best translations from which the greek in sense dessenteth not not out of the olde latine translation Now you trifle to no purpose about the Hebrew Greeke Latine termes which to those that are but me anelie learned are well enough knowne what they signifie And first if you should graunt al that M. Chark said you thinke he had gained nothing For you also confes that the law of the Lord is perfect but not in that sense wherein M. Chark vsech it to wit that because the law of the Lord is perfect therefore the scripture cannot be wrested And afterward when you haue tolde vs that these wordes vnde filed irreprehensible and perfect which answer the latine greeke and Hebrue wordes 〈◊〉 not much in sense for whatsoeuer is irreprehensible and vnspotted may also be called perfect you conclude that this doth not prooue the scriptures to be perfect in sense in such sort as it maie not be wrested or peruerted You say true but it is false that Master Chark maketh anie such illation as you charge him For thus he inferreth the lawe of God is perfect ergo it cannot be wrested as a nose of wax or as his owne wordes are the scripture is perfect and manteineth her perfection against all corruptions as a right line sheweth it selfe bewraieth that which is crooked The lawe of a wise man as hath beene said before may be so perfect as it cannot be wrested like a nose of waxe into anie sense that the wrester wil imagine but that his vaine cauillation shall be odious and ridiculous to al men Much rather is the lawe of God so perfect as though all the deuilles in hell should breake their braines to wrest and peruertit yet can they neuer wrest it like a nose of wax to euerie side or shape but that the perfect sense of the scripture remaineth ful constant and manifest to them that haue the spirit of God yea euen to them that will iudge but indifferentlie according to right reason By the waie you charge Master Charke with railing and inueighing against your olde translation and with running he careth not whether forging he careth not what and reprehending he careth not whome yet in all that discourse he hath no more wordes of it but these your olde translation doth goe alone In which wordes what rayling running forging reprehending inueihing may be conteined let ihe wiser sort iudge and fooles learne to be wiser But where he saith that the best translations differ from the olde translation you aske what best or better or other good latine translation hath he then the olde As though none might be good but your olde translation I perceaue you would not acknowledge any good of them that were set forth by Munster Leo Iude or anie other professed protestant yet what saie you to the translation of Vatablus a famous and learned reader of Paris How dare you condemne the translation of Pagnine of the olde testament and Erasmus of the new testament as naught which the Pope allowed as good Finallie what exceptions can you take to the translation of Isidorus Clarius censured and approoued by the deputies of the Councell of Trent maie none of these be good better or best but that your olde translation hath the prerogatiue in goodnes in all degrees that it leaueth all other behinde it as nought O waightie censure of a wise Papist But let vs see wherein the excellencie of the olde translation doth consist as you suppose First you saie it was in vse in Gods Church aboue 13. hundred yeares past as maie be seene by the citations of the fathers which liued then But euen those verie citations doe prooue the contrarie at the least that it was not in generall vse in the latine Church Saint Augustine in the place by you quoted for the bowe of heretikes where your translation hath in obscuro did reade in obscura luna and standeth much vpon exposition of the darke moone Yea throughout the wholl Psalter whosoeuer wil compare the text which Saint Augustine vsed with your olde translation shall finde great difference betweene them But this your olde translation you tell vs was afterward oueruewed and corrected by Saint Ierome we know verie well that Saint Ierome did oueruew and correct a certaine auncient translation of the septuaginta that was vfed in his time But how are you hable to prooue that this your vulgar translation is the same either corrected or vncorrected For it appeareth by the citations of diuerse of the latine Church which liued after Saint Ierome that they vsed an other text then this translation euen vntill the daies of Bernard When you saie that this your olde translati on was highlie commended by Saint Augustine you make such a shameles 〈◊〉 as you obiect without shame to M. Charke when he saith that the Septuaginta agree with the hebrue in signification of the word perfecte for they saie irreprehensible which must needes be perfect but so is not your latine 〈◊〉 vnspotted or vndefiled which you your selfe in your censure do egerlie contend to be differing from perfection You name the translation of Erasmus and Luther of which the one translated onelie the new testament which Leo. 10. and Clemens 7. did both allow the other translated not the Bible at all in latine except perhappes some partes vpon which he wrote commentaries Here your Printer will make vs beleeue that you were remooued with a writ de remouendo so as you could proceede no further but now there is a writ de renouando sued against you if you
discharge your Iesuites of herisie and treason the wordes of scorpions and venemous spiders are no railing termes but apt to expresse their venemous and poisonous practises for they are vsed in scripture to describe the like mischeuous workes as Apocal. 9. Esa. 59. 5. The rest of his speaches haue either the same or the like phrases iustified in the scriptures against corrupters of Religion and enimies of publike peace as we shewe your Iesuites to be for the former and their practises to the confusion of some of them haue beene discouered for the latter With Master Hanmers termes I will not meddle who is to answer for him-selfe when you haue confuted his arguments or els when he shall see it conuenient Doctor Fulke the next man whom you condemne to be of a ruffianlike spirit because he saith shew me Allin if thou canst for thy guttes as though you raile not more of him in your ruffianlike terme then he in speaking of Allens guttes whatsoeuer the cause or affection were hath answered alreadie in his own behalfe in such sort as more shame redowndeth to you that haue gathered together his vehement and sharpe speaches vttered in manie bookes and to those whome you complaine by him to be abused while he giueth a reason of his speaches then all the eloquence you haue wil be able to wipe away in a larger treatise then your defense of the Censure as yet appeareth to be Confut of Topish quarrelles page 20. and so forth in 16. or 17 pages If it were no more but your marginall note Docter Fulkes talent in railing wherein you abuse an holie phrase of scripture like an Italian Atheist to mooue Sardonicall laughter it were much more able to conuince you of a ruffianlike spirit then anie terme that D. Fulke vseth seeing such vnreligious allusions vnto the termes and matters of holie scripture cannot be defended in anie man cause or manner The like you haue of Primitias spiritus and Luthers lying with a Nunne in the Lord all which argue a prophane spirite and a licentious intemperate and almoste blasphemous tongue or penne in anie that vse them or the like When you haue almoste done with Doctor Fulke you take vpon you to shew the like rayling in the Masters as you terme them that you haue done in the schollers and beginning with Iohn Caluin you saie that his ordinarie terme especially against Bishoppes and such like as are his superiours is to call them Nebulones knaues which beside the foull gall whence it proceedeth is vnseemelie For this you neither note nor quote anie one place where he vseth that terme in such sort as either his gall might thereby be espied or the same signfying light persons might not fitlie be applied vnto them vpon whome he bestowed the terme As for your popish Bishoppes are not his superiours but for the most part deserue sharper termes then Nebulones euen such as were fitte for Annas Caiphas Ananias and the rest of that race which were as great prelates as they Hauing nothing more against Caluin you passe ouer to Luther who in his booke against King Henrie the eight of England ministreth vnto you larger matter to triumph against him where in it maie be doubted whether you had greater pleasure in discouering of Lu ther 's intemper at stile then in displaying those odious and long since buried reproches against that noble Prince so great an enimie to your Romish Antichrist which as they were vnseemelie in respect of either of their persons him that did write the Prince against whom he did write so they were afterward misliked of Luther himselfe who in as great humilitie as before he did write in disdaine craued pardon at his handes not for the matter substance of his booke but for his vnreuerent handling of the same against a King of so great nobility of so good expectation the cause that mooued him to such destemper was for that he supposed that the booke was not endited by the King him selfe but by some enimie of his to procure his dishonour as he writeth in the same booke Crederes ab insigni hoste regis hunc librum editum in perpetuam regis ignominiam You would thinke that his booke was set forth by some notable enimie of the Kinges to the perpetuall shame of the King And in his Epistle of submission he declareth that he suspected cardinall Wolsey to be the author thereof which made him the bolder to write as he did against it And in the storie of Sir Thomas Moores life written by his sonne in lawe Master Roper which I haue seene it appeareth that Kinge Henrie tooke great displeasure against Sir Thomas Moore for the edition of that booke by which he receiued more dishonour then by anie thing in all his life Luther therfore writing against him that did abuse the name of the Kinge in defence of an euill cause thought he was not bound to spare him because of the Kinges title but that he might so much the rather be free to inueigh against him But this to saie the trueth might be some part of an excuse though not a sufficient defense of his doing neuerthelesse it followeth not here of that he could not be an elect vessell of God or that he had no part of Gods spirit or that he was herein worsse then anie russian or rakehell as our seuere Censurer saith without either malice or railing spirit I warrant you For Gods elect children they that haue a great part of his spirit do sometimes fal into far greater crimes then this and yet by his grace are brought to repentance as Luther was for this vntemperat stile and thereof made open confession in his epistle of submission againe he erred by immoderat zeale yet in defense of the truth which is not the cause that mooueth ruffians and rakehelles to rage Wherefore it is well with Luther that hath alreadie answered the matter before a more wise and merciful iudge and standeth not at the curtesie of our solemne Censurer But it is more to your purpose that you bring in Luther inueighing against the Caluinistes where he had not by our owne confession a good cause the Caluinistes againe as bitter against him a tast whereof though you refer the matter to another place you wil needes giue vs here by citing of one place in stead of all the rest and that is of the Church of Tygurine against Luther Tygur 〈◊〉 3. contra supermam Lutherij confessionem whole wordes you promise to rehearse out of what edition I cannot tell for the edition of Tigure by Froshere 1545. of Gwalters translation reporteth their wordes somewhat otherwise and therefore I thinke in this place as in diuers other you are but a broaker of other mens ware to put forth that you neuer sawe your selfe but gather out of some other mans notebooke which reported not al thinges either with such diligence or faithfullnes as had beene requisite to be found in
haue no sinne and of the obstinate Iewes If I had not come and spoken vnto them they should haue had no sinne If I had not done those workes among them which no other could doe they should haue had no sinnes Luthers meaning is therefore that vnbeleefe is the greatest and onelie sinne that damneth a man because all other sinns are forgiuen to him that beleeueth is baptized according to the promise of god Secondlie where Luther speaketh expresselie of a Christian baptized you say simplie a man where he saith with any sianes how great soeuer you sate doe what mischeefe he can And as for your blasphemous collection that a man cannot leese his saluation if he would neuer so faine c. and that he may doe what he will so he fall not into incredulitie Luther him-selfe in three wordes sheweth how farre it is from his meaning in his answere to the gatherers of errours out of his doctrine which delt more honestlie with him then you For they said Baptizatum etiam volentem c. that the baptized man though he be willing cannot leese his saluation Luther answereth Quia fides tollis omnia peccara facit volentem non pecca re Rom. 1. because faith taketh awaie all sinnes and maketh a man willing not to sinne For euen in his booke de captiuitate Bab. he addeth this condition which you doe fraudulentlie omitte Siredeat vel 〈◊〉 fides if faith doe returne or stand For by the same faith or rather the trueth of Gods promise all other sinnes are swallowed vp because God cannot denie him selfe if thou shalt confesse him and cleaue faithfullie vnto him that promiseth To conclude faith and good workes be vnseperable and the faithfull man although by corruption of nature he is apt dailie to fall away from God into most greeuous sinnes yet by grace he is either preserued from heinous sinnes or els he is brought to repentance and sorrow for the same So that Luthers doctrine of faith and vnbeleefe if it be vnderstood rightlie as he doth often expiicate himselfe is full of comfort to a troubled conscience yet giueth not bridle to sinne or carnall libertie And therfore howsoeuer you wrest his wordes from his meaning you shew yourselfe no lesse an impudent liar then the false witnesses that deposed against our sauiour Christ that he said destroie this temple and within three dayes I will raise it againe which wordes in deede he spake but not in that sense they deposed and therfore are condemned by the holie ghost as liars and false witnes bearers Luther saith onely infidelitie is the trouble of the conscience because there is nothing but sinne and damnation where there is no faith you conclude that nothing is sinne but vnbeleefe whereas in vnbeleefe there is nothing but sinne and being iustified by faith we haue peace with god And there is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Iesus who walke not after the flesh but after the spirit Againe where ' Luther saith that nothing maketh a wickedman but infidelitie because it is the roote of all wickednes and bringeth with it all wickednes you conclude that no other sinne maketh a man wicked which is true if it be vnderstood of him that hath faith is truly penitent for his sinne hath it pardoned by Gods mercie For to such one though his sinns were as redde as scarlet they are made as white as wol neither is he to be called Prauns a wicked man but rectus or iustus a right or a iust man who shall liue by his faith The second doctrine is so manifest a cauill that you doe in a manner acknowledge a satisfaction both by Master Hanmer and Master Charke onelie you would haue it considered how these wordes of Luther do sound in the eares of the people The enne commaundements appertaine nothing to vs. As though Luther did sette downe this Aphorisme so barelie that he did not plainlie declare his meaning For this he saith in his sermon intituled how the bookes of Moses are to be read with fruite Doctorem sanè c. truely we doe receiue and acknowledge Moses as a teacher of whome we learne much profitable doctrine as after shal be said but we do not acknowledge him to be a law giuer or a gouernour sithe he him-selfe restrained his ministerie to that people onelie Againe in answer to this question Why the tenne commaundements are to be obserued of vs Seeing Moses pertaineth not vnto vs he saith Sed inquis c. but thou saiest certainlie the commanndements of Moses that is of God are these not to haue straunge Gods to feare god to trust him and obeie him not to abuse his name to giue honour to parentes not to kill not to steals not to commit adulterie not to beare false witnesse c. is it not necessarie that we obserue these things I answere they are to be oserued of all men and they pertaine to all men not because they were commaunded by Moses but because these lawes that are rehearsed in the tenne commaundements are written in the nature of men For God hath imprinted these notices in all men euen in their creation Wherefore euen the gentiles to whome Moses was unknowen and to whome God hath not spoken as to them do know that God is to be obeyed God is to be called vpon parentes are to be honoured men must adstaine from murther and iniurie of others c. because these thinges displease God and are punished of him In the end he concludeth thus Dico igitur seruanda esse hee 〈◊〉 decalogi c. 1 saie therefore that these ion commaundementes are to be obserued not because Moses hath 〈◊〉 them which thing pertained to that people one lie but because all men haue these knowledges imprinted in nature with which Moses also agreeth If this be not sufficient to declare his iudgement to be farre from abolishing of the morall law I reporre me to you Now whether the ten commaundements appartaine more to Christians then to gentiles or Iewes we will not 〈◊〉 at this time Howsoeuer it be Luther saith not as you conclude that by this meanes they should no more appertaine to vs then to gentiles in whose nature also they were written But rather the contrarie maie be concluded by good Logick out of Luthers reason If they did appertaiue to the gentiles because they were writen in their nature much more to Christians in whose heart they are written also by the spirit of god What shall I saie more the Lord shall destroy all deceitfull lippes and the tongue that speaketh proudiie Thirdlie you reporte that Luther said It is a false opinion and to be abolished that there are 4. Gospels For the Gospell of Iohn is the onelie faire true and principall Gospel For this you cited his preface in nouum Testamentum which Master Charke cannot finde nor anie man els that I heare of in latine You saie it is not
of Saint Iames speaketh then you were when you wrot your defence of purgatorie for there you were not ashamed to affirme that Caluine did expound it for a medicinable salue or ointment to ease the sicke mans sore But now let vs see how you will prooue his interpretation to be a fond glosse First you aske whether the people then christianed were instructed or rather commaunded to call for the Apostles or others to heale thē miraculouslie of their diseases I answere they were admonished by the Apostles that they might vse the benefit of that speciall gift of healing and that is manifest by the wordes of Saint Iames. Secondlie you aske whether all Priests had the gift of working miracles in the primitiue Church I answere I cannot tell of euerie one but that in euerie Church some had the gift of healing it is most probable in the Apostles time And therefore Saint lames willeth not one Priest but all the Priests or Elders of the Church to be called for But against my first answer you obiect that by like reason they were charged to send for them to reuine the dead that to seeke after miracles were to tempt God I replie the gift of raising the dead was verie rare insomuch as we read but of two that were raised by the Apostles them selues Tabytha by Peter and Eutycus by Paul And Saint Iames willeth not the Apostles which were not in al places hand but the elders of the Church which were in euery Christian congregation to be sent for Neither is it a tempting of God to seeke after miracles of healing at their hands to whome God hath giuen that gift To your second obiection I answere that albeit euerie Priest had not that gift whereof as I cannot affirme so cannot you denie of certaintie yet it is certaine that in euerie congregation of the dispersed Iews to whome 〈◊〉 writeth there were some that had that gift as it is manifest by the promise that he maketh that the praier offaith shall giue health to the sicke man and the Lord shall raise him vp But howsoeuer it be if there were anie miracles of healing that had remission of sinnes ioyned to it or to the externall creature the Priests might by that office of that creature heale a man of his sinnes which they affirme to be blasphemie c. I answere Saint Iames his wordes are plaine from whence remission of sinnes commeth properlie The oile was a seale of assurance both of bodelie health and of remission of sinnes with are the cause often times that man is visited which sicknes and bodelie infirmite but not allwaies as our sauiour Christ sheweth of the blind man therefore he saith if he haue committed sinne it shal be forgiuen meaning if he had this bodely infirmitie laid vpon him for some greiuos sinne For otherwise there is no man but sinneth and whome God may iustly punish for his sinne although he deal more mercifully with his children who though they want not his fatherly chastisement yet he doth not alwaies laie vpon them the crosse of bodely affliction ALLEN In the sacrament of baptisme they will not stand with me openlie for they will seeme to acknowldge the forgiuenes of sinnes thereby and I thinke by the Ministerie of man to though in their priuat schooles yea and in their open blaspemoous bookes the whole packe of Protestantes and Zuinglians denie that sacrament also to remit sinnes both acknowledging that children may be saued and be receiued to heauen without it auouching that sinne remaineth still in the children after their Christendome though God will not impute the same vnto them for the hinderance of their saluation Which false Doctrine is the ground of their more subtill opinions touching onelie saith and imputed iustice and other their pelting paradoxes concerning mans iustification which I cannot now stand vpon Would God the ignorant sort of their followers could see through the dunghil of this confuse Doctrine For these haue euer besides the florish of their faith that they make abroad amongst fooles an other more improbable which they keepe for the strong ones at home that will no more be offended to heare the Turkish then the christian faith And so had the Epicure as Tullie teacheth For pleasure of the minde gathered by contentation and contemplation of heauenlie thinges was his chiefe God and extreame end of his endeuours abroade but his dearlinge◠at home had the pleasures of the bodelie lustes and wantonnesse for the end of all goodnes Well but I will reason with them vpon the ground of their outward profession that baptisme is a sacrament in which truelie sinnes be remitted by the ministerie of men and without all dishonour of God seeing it was Gods owne ordinance appointment But heare S. Ambrose againe I praie you encountering in this matter with our mens masters Cur baptisatis saith he per hominem peccata dimitti non licet in baptismo vtique remissio peccatorum omnium est Quid interest vtrum per poenitentiam an per lauacrum hoc ius sibi datum sacerdotes vendicent vnum in vtroque ministerium est Sed dices quia in lauacro operatur mysteriorum gratia quid in poenitentia non Dei nomen operatur Why do they baptize if man may not remit sinnes for surelie in Baptisme all sinnes be remitted and what difference I beseech you whether Priestes chalenge this gift to be theirs in baptisme or in pennance The ministerie of man is like in both But you will replie perchaunce that in baptisme the grace of the ministeries worketh And what worketh I praie you in penance Doth not Gods name bring all to passe there also Thus he But here good reader marke diligently in this doctoures words as also in other the like of all auncient Fathers that penance is not here taken for anie vertue either morall or theologicall which is in a priuat man when he amendeth or changeth his purpose or former euill life to the better whereof there was some shade amongst the heathen is now both commended in scripture and giuen man by Christes graces not onelie afore the remitting of the sacrament of baptisme if the party were in case of actuall deadly sinne but also goeth alwaie as a neccssary preparatiue before sacramentali confession and is called in our tongue properlie repentance this Doctor therefore speaketh not of this kinde of penitence but of a publike act of the Church touching the reconciliation or repayring of mans state defiled after his baptisme by greeuous crimes in which by Priestes iudgement the sinnes committed be either pardoned or punished And this must be called repentance onely or the amendement of life as Heretiques do tearme it to confound the Doctrine of Gods trueth Sacraments but it is an externall and visible act-on appointed by Christ in the 20. of Saint Iohn to reconcile sinners by that forme of absoluing which the Church vseth in the name and inuocation of God for
the least they disdaine to submit themselues to the Priests whom God hath giuen power vnto to discearne the cleane from the vncleane But I would thou shouldest not beguile thy selfe by false perswasion or some respect of shame that thou hast to confesse vnto the priest who is Gods Vicare For I tell thee thou must vnder his iudgement whome God doth not disdaine to constitute his Vicegerent But this Doctour made a wholl worke of penance and the waies of recouerie of Christian mans fall after Baptisme by the Priests iudgement and sacrament of Confession Of the which bookes if any man list doubt yet let him be assured that they be both auncient Catholike learned and agreeable to the doctrine of Saint Augustines daies whosoeuer made them And our cause is so much more holpen because not onelie Saint Austine who is plaine in these matters vpon Saint Matthwes Gospel and els where as it is declared alreadie but also other of great antiquitie confirme the same and plainly confound the pride of our daies in which men are not somuch ashamed of their sinnes as they be disdainefull to confesse their sinnes vnto a poore priest though he iustlie accupie the verie iudgement seat of God FVLKE You doe wiselie to deuorce vpon his meaning when you haue not his wordes to warrant you For so you maie blinde the eyes of the ignorant to beleeue that you haue som farther intelligence of meaning then can appeare euen by the words that you haue cited out of him For the 〈◊〉 of condemnation is not by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against them which are ashamed to confes their faults to men if they amend them before god but against them that flie the knowledge and iudgement of men and yet doe not repent before God And therefore he saith si ea confiteri aut emendare noluerirt if they will not confesse them or amende them and againe si in maio suo permanserint if they shall continue in their euill But if they will amend their faultes and not continue in sinne he dare promise them forgiuenes and life euerlasting as is declared in the last section But now you charge vs with Saint Agustines authoritie and yet you will not abide by it that it is Saint Augastines authoritie wherein you deale more sincerely then Papists are commonlie wont to doe to acknowledge that these bookes you vouch are not admitted for Saint Augustines authoritie Among so many great and large volumes as are certeinlie knowne and generally receiued to be of Saint Augustines writing where you can finde nothing but these bookes of vncerteine credit to mainteine the necessitie of auricular confession the indifferent reader may well gather how litle ground your purpose cā finde in that age of S. Austins For that you haue declared alreadie out of S. Austine vpon S. Matthewes Gospel ells where how plaine it is for these matters let the reader iudge by that I haue answered in those seuerall places But as touching the bookes de visitatione 〈◊〉 being one of the two treatises that you cite as it is certaine that it was not of S. Austines writing so hath it no similitude with the doctrine of his time or with the stile of anie learned or auncient father The Censure of Erasmus vpon these bookes is this Sermo locutulei nec docti nec diserti Quid habuerunt vel frontis vel mentis qui talia scripta nobis obtruserunt nomine Augustini c. These bookes are the speach of a pratler neither learned nor eloquent What shame or wit had they which haue thrust vpon vs such writings vnder the name of S. Augustine Yet you dare assure vs that they be auncient Catholike learned and agreeable to the doctrine of Saint Augustines daies But the reasons of your assurance you spare to shewe giuing vs nothing but your bare word which is sufficient among vnlearned and sottish Papists whose ignorance you knewe would accept whatsoeuer you brought and therefore were carles what all the learned of the contrarie parte might iudge of your impudent and shameles assertions Concerning the other whole worke of penance which you affirme that this doctour made although it were graunted that Saint Augustine was author of that worke of repentance as it shall be easilie graunted that if not Saint Augustine yet some other auncient and learned father was the writer of them neuertheles there is nothing in them by which you are able to prooue the matter in controuersie namelie the necessitie of confession of all mortall sinnes to a Priest And therefore albeit you set a good face vpon the matter you haue neuer a sentence to set downe out of those bookes that is able to giue but onely a glosse or colour to your Popish confession For if you had you woulde not haue beene silent in setting forth the sentence of another beside Saint Augustine as you saie and as I thinke of great antiquitie who against them that be impenitent and neither acknowledge their sinnes vnfainedlie before God nor studie to amend and reforme their wicked life writeth vehementlie shewing three kindes of repentance one before baptisme in them that are of yeares another after baptisme which is dailie sorowing for our infirmities in saying the Lordes prayer the third of heinous and notorious sinnes offensiue to the Church of them that are excommunicated and are not to be receiued without open confession and signes of humilitie But the necessitie of confessing all thinges to a poore priest iustlie occupying the verie iudgement seate of God there is no word in either of those two bookes De medicina poenitentiae de vtilitate poenitentiae ALLEN And Saint Ambrose these mens auncient somewhat did knowe this practise so well and allow it that he did sit in his owne person on confession as Paulinus doth recorde whose behauiour in that diuine office that all Priestes maie perceiue and all the people note I will report Quotie scunque illi aliquis ob percipiendam poenitentiam lapsus suos confessus esset it a flebat vt ilium flere compellerat Causas autem criminum quas illi confitebaniur nulli nisi Domino soli apud quens intercedebat loquebatur bonum relinquens exemplum posteris sacerdotibus vt intercessores apud Deum sin magis quà m accusatores apud homines That is to saie So often as anie man came vnto him to confesse his faultes and receiue penance he so wept that he made the Penitent to weepe also But the faults themselues which they confessed he vttered to no man but to God alone to whome for their sinnes he made sute leauing a blessed example to all Priestes of the posteritie to account themselues rather as intercessours to God for sinnes then accusers of men before the worlde for their sinne This saieth Paulinus of Saint Ambrose whereby at once we see the iudgement of them both for our matter FVLKE The iudgement of Saint Ambrose concerning the necessitie of popish thrift or auricular confession we haue
him for neither Saint Paull Saint Cyprian nor the councell of Nice graunted such pardons to such persons and for such causes as he doth therefore he followeth not their example but his owne presumption Yet let vs see how this argument is fortified First the paine prescribed by law he maie release because he is the principall executor of the law But who will allow him anie such principalitie in the Church that is no member of the same Secondlie he maie remit the pennance enioyned by the Priest because he is superiour to all piestes which is nothing but a miserable begging of that which is in controuersie The like is to be said of his changing of penance whereby he challengeth the like authority Although his changing of sharpe pe nance into easie paiment doth bewray what is the end of such permutation money is intended whatsoeuer is pretended Vrbanus the 2. in the councell of Claremounte exhorting men of al nations to the warre of Ierusalem began that release of penance for seruing in that cause which his successours afterward haue vsed as a gaie and gainfull pretense when they were disposed to enrich their coffers and mantaine their priuate quarrels ALLEN The like they do also often to set forward other workes of charitie to the benefit of Gods people as for the relieuing of Hospitals of Churches of high waies and such like Sometimes againe they extende their power which Christ gaue them to edifie his Church and increase religion and deuotion in the people as when thy giue pardon for so manie daies to such as shall receiue the blessed Sacrament faste and praie that heresie maie cease in the Church that the enemies of Christianitie maie not preuaile that infidels Iewes and heretikes maie be conuerted and Schismatikes knit them-selues obedientlie to the fellowship of Chistes folde So doth the Pope for the encrease of zelous deuotion and aduancing Gods honour giue daies of remission or full pardon to such as shall vsuallie haue meditations of Christes passion and death by certaine holie praiers appointed or by visiting places in which there be seene some liuelie sieppes memories and expresse tokens of Christe miraculous workes or his Saintes Thus to helpe vp the dulnesse of praying and seruing God in our daies he geueth grace and pardon to such as shall freauent the Churches at the times of their dedication or on certaine principall Feastes there either to be confessed and receiue the 〈◊〉 sacrament or els to ioyne in praier and deuotion with other the faithful people that thither at those daies haue principall recourse Hereof we haue example not onelie in the storie of the institution of the solemne Feast of Corpus Christi but also in the great generall councell holden at Laterane For this cause also and the like maintenance of holie praier by which the Church of God moste standeth hath he mercifully with singular wisdome giuen a pardon of certaine daies or years to such as should deuoutlie occupie such beades books or praiers in all which things orderlie giuen reuerentlie receiued I see not what can be reprehended of anie but such as are offended with all workes and waies of mercie charitie and deuotion The power and iurisdiction is prooued lawfull the causes why he should exercise his authoritie herein be verie vrgent Gods honour with the peoples commodite exceeding well respected all thinges here do edify and nothing at all destroy all things do stande by good reason nothing can be reprooued either with rea son or good religion FVLKE You tell vs what the Pope doth but neither by what authoritic of the holie scriptures nor by what example of the holie auncient Church He could neuer sit in the Temple of God boasting him-selfe to be God except he had some religious colour to blinde the eies of the world which submitteth vnto his antichiristan power And yet all the world knoweth that monie obtained for hospitalles Churches beades bookes and such baggage all the pardons in a manner that haue beene graunted As for the pretense of setting forward the workes of charitie fasting praing c. is not onelie hypocriticall but also wicked For neither men muste be hired to the workes of charitie and other Christian exercises by pardon of their punishments but exhorted and charged for the loue of God and vpon their duties neither should a sale be made of that which ought to be freelie graunted if the Church had such authoritie For freely saith he you haue receiued therefore freely you ought to giue Therefore though you cannot see in this filthy nundination what is to be reprehended we can see nothing that can be defended where neither the power is proued lawfull nor the causes reasonable nor the end godlie whatsoeuer is pretended nor meanes by the worde of God or example of the Pimitiue Church allowable That not onelie the penance enioyned in the sacrament otherwise by canonicall correction but also such paine as God him selfe prouideth for sinne may be released by the Popes Pardons and that Purgatorie paines may especiallie be preuented by the same remissions THE 7. CHAP. ALLEN BVt now because some may by course of our matter looke that I should declare whether the Popes Pardons may release any whit of that paine which God himselfe putteth the penttent vnto after his sinnes be forgiuen I must somewhat stand hereupon the cause is weightie and much misliked of our aduersaries and some other perchance to that see not so farre into the matter as they should doe before they giue anie iudgement thereof That the gouernours of the Church should remit Canonicall correction and priuse satisfaction with the bonde of penance either enioyned or els which by the lawes spirituall might be enioyned manie will confesse But that their power should reach to the remitting of that paine which Gods hand hath laied vpon the offender of temporall correction that they vnderstand not Truely for this they must be instructed first that the temporall punishment which God taketh on sinners that be penitent though it standeth by the law of nature aud was practized of the laws of nature and was practized of God himselfe before anie mans lawes were made for puuishment of sinnes yet now it riseth prin cipallie vpon lack of punishing of our selues or the accomplishing of such penance as the Church of God prescribeth For if the Church punish her childrens faults by sharpe discipline doubtles it satisficeth Gods righteousnesse and he will not punish bis in id ipsum twise for one fault or if man earnestlie and sufficientlie iudge him-selfe God hath promised by S. Paul that he will not iudge him also that is to saie that he will not correct him with more heauie discipline of this life or the life to come for that signifieth this word iudicare as the Apostle him-selfe doth interpret it Then it followeth that the bond of anie temporall punishment to be inflicted by God him-selfe doth not now binde man otherwise then for the
a nose of wax is easie to be turned and shaped on euerie side or sort which if it were so must needes be a great fault in the scripture it selfe A hundred positiue lawes and statutes in England are so well penned as all the sophistical heads in christendome cannot finde a starting hole in them by anie peruerse interpretations but thatall they which haue but a meane skill in the lawes will laugh them to scorne And tha I we think so vnreuerently of the holy scriptures giuen by inspiration of god that euerie foolish heretike maie turne them about like a nose of wax but rather that in his said attempt of turning his folly shal be made manifest to al men Pighius saith expressely the scriptures are dumbe iudges as though Godspake not in them and by them vnto vs whose prophane comparison of the holie scriptures with prophane lawes which require Magistrates and iudges to punish the offenders of them euerie Christian man may perceiue to tende to the derogation of the maiesty of them As also euerie childe that hath studied logike but halfe a yeare maie vnderstand his beggerlie petition of the principle when appealing from the iudgement of the scriptures he will be iudged by none but by papists in controuersies and questions that we haue against the papists As for the blacke Gospell and Inkie diuinitie babled by Eccius against the written Gospell If Iesuits can maintaine as Catholike surelie Christians can not heare it without horror of blasphemie If there be no fault or imperfection in the scriptures how saith Pighius that euery man may euidently know without the scriptures in what order the Church is appointed by her author Againe of what moment is the holy scripture if it be not necessarie to decide all doubtes and controuersies in the Church for thus saith Pighius If we receaue the authoritie of the Churches tradition quam si recipimus omnis facilè etiam sine scriptur is inter nos componetur concertatio controuersia cùm de singulis nonfuerit admodum operosum inuenire quid Catholica ab initio Ecclesia senserit Which if we receiue all strife and controuersie betweene vs may easilie be compounded euen without the scriptures Seeing it is no very hard worke to finde out what the Ca tholike Church from the beginning hath thought of euerie question Thus the Ecclesiasticall tradition is set a loft and the holie scriptures excluded as superfluous and vnnecessarie seeing all questions may easilie be decided without them But to giue a better colour to your nose of waxe you saie Saint Ierome doth call the scriptures alledged corruptlie by Marcion and Basilides the diuells Gospell because the Gospell consisteth not in the words of scripture but in the sense But so doth not Christ call the scripture when it was alledged by the deuill neither doth Saint Ierome so call the scripture but the false sense feined by heretikes His wordes are these Grande periculum est in Ecclesia loqui ne fortè interpretatione peruersa de Euangelio Christi hominis fiat Euangelium aut quod peius est Diaboli It is great perill to speake in the Church least perhappes by peruerse interpretation of the Gospell of Christ be made the Gospell of man or that which is worse of the deuill And it is true which he saith The Gospell is not in the wordes but in the sense of the scriptures Yet it is also true that the sense of the scriptures is expressed in those wordes of the scriptures and not included in the Popes breast as the Papists would haue vs thinke that al labour bestowed in seeking the sense of the scriptures is in vaine except we take the interpretation of the Popish Church which sthe iudgement of the Pope as the sure rule to guide vs by But Saint Augustine you saie calleth the scripture the bowe of heretikes Which is not so for he compareth their wresting of the scriptures to the bending of a bowe Ecce inquiunt peccatores tetenderunt arcum credo scriptur as quas illi carnaliter interpretando venenatas inde sententias emittunt Beholde say they the sinners haue bent the bowe the scriptures I beleeue which while they interpret carnallie they send forth poysoned meaninges from them Further you saie Irenaeus compareth it abused by heretikes to a Iewel stamped with the forme of a Dogge or Fox Irenaeus speaketh not of the bodie of the scriptures but of wordes sentences and parables of scripture rent not onelie from their sense but also from their place and patched together with olde wiues fables to make a shew for heresie which is all one as he saith as if a man should breake an excellent Image of a king and when he hath fashioned the peeces beeing pearles or precious stones into the shape of a Fox or Dogge he would yet be so impudent to saie this is that excellent Image of the king which was made by a not able workman This soundeth nothing like the nose of waxe Likewise you saie Gregorie Nazianzen compareth the scripture to a siluer scabberd with a leaden sworde in it The comparison you speake of is in his poemes which I verelie am perswaded that you neuer read but were mocked by your notebooke as many times before For Gregorie compareth not the scriptures as you slaunder him but an hipocrite a man that hath nothing but an externall shew of religion to a leaden sworde in a siluer scabberde his verses are these if you could haue construed them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To these that you might seeme bountifull though you be a verie begger of your owne reading you adde Tertullian and Vincentius Lirinensis of which the former you saie compareth the scripture to the deceitfull ornaments of harlottes the other to poysoned hearbs couered in the Apothecaries shops with faire titles Wherein you slaun der them both for they compare not the wholl scripture as you doe in your nose of waxe but the hereticall bragges of scripture which as they may abuse a peece for a shew so are they confounded by the wholl when the same is rightlie weighed Therefore the comparisons of these auncient Doctors are no more like to your nose of waxe then your nose of waxe is like to the holie scriptures Neither doth the example of Luther calling the scriptures the booke of heretikes expounding him selfe why he so calleth it namely because it is depraued by heretikes defend the Iesuites which to the deprauation of the scriptures vse that similitude as Luther did not in his albeit he might as well haue forborne that title as his rash iudgement against those whome you call sacramentaries for as the one was vnprofitable so the other was vniust But if the Iesuites saie you had reiected any one booke of the scripture as the Protestantes doe many we might iustlie accuse them It is as great a fault to adde to the worde of God as to take from it The Protestantes reiect no booke