eternall deeth and dampnacyon And so hath Christ velyvered vs from the pitte wherin is no water that is to saye from hell everlastinge dampnacyon not that we were in hell all readye although we were bounde vnder sinne and readye to be cast therin but because we shuld not entre in to hell This is the pure vnderstondinge of the teâ—…te Here might I dispute with him both of hell and of limbus patruÌ„ but because I will be as shorte as possible is I will deferre that vntill a nother occasion that I mayâ—… reason with him sumwhat at large ANother place is there also in the olde testa ment that putteth purgatorie quyte out of question For sayeth he what is playner then the places which in the boke of the Machabees made mencyon of the devoute remembraunce prayoure almoyse sacrifice to be done for soules when the good and holye man Iudas Machabeus gathered monye amonge the people to buye sacrifyce with all to be offered vp for the soules of them that were deed in the batayle What shifte finde they here Surelye a verye shamlesse shifte and are 〈◊〉 to take them to that taklinge which is their shoteaÌ„ker alwaye when they finde the storme so greate that they se their shippe goeth al to wracke For first they â—…se to sette some false glosse vnto the texte and if that helpe not then falle they to a shamelesse boldnesse and let not to denye the scripture and all The place which he recyteth is writeÌ„ 2. Ma chabeo 12. And to saye the truth the boke is not of 〈◊〉 auctorite to make an article of oure faith neyther is it admitted in the canon of y â— hebrues Here he obiecteth that the church hath â—…lowed it and the holye doctoures as S. Hiero me S. Austine and soch other I answere S. Hieromes minde is opened vnto vs by the pistle which he wrote before the proverbes of So lomon his wordes are these Sicut Iudith et Tobie et Machabeorum libros ligit quiâ—… eoâ—… ecclesia sed inter canonicas scripturas non reci pit sic et hec duo volumina legat ad edificationem plebis non ad authoritatâ—…m ecclesiasticoruÌ„ dogmatum confirmandum That is like as the church doth read y â— bokes of Iudith Thobias and the Machabees but receaveth them not emonge the canonicall scriptures even so let it read these two bokes he meaneth y â— boke of sapience and ecclesiasticus vnto the edefyinge of the people and not to confirme the doctrine of the church therbye And it is nothinge like that S. Austayne shulde dissente from S. Hierom for they were both in one tyme yee and. S. Hierom out lyved S. Austayne And therfore the church coulde not admitte any such bokes eyther before S. Austaynes tyme or in his tyme but that S. Hierom shulde haue knowne of it And so maye you gather that if S. Austayne â—…lowe these bokes or els saie y t the church hath alowed theÌ„ you maye not vnderstoÌ„de y t they ha ue alowed and receaved them as canonicall scri ptures for then you make S. Hierom a 〈◊〉 But thus you must vnderstoâ—…de it that they ha ue receaved them to be red for the edefyinge oâ—… the people and not to confirme the doctrine of the church or articles of the faith therby accordinge to S. Hieroms exposition Now mayâ—… you se y t oure shoteanker as he calleth it is so stronge that al his stormes and waves can not once move it for we denye not but that the boke is receaved of y e church to be red and weshewe by S. Hierome for whate entenâ—… it is receaved and red not to proue any article of oure faith therbye but onlye to ordre oure maner of lyvinge therafter in soch poyntes as are not re pugnaunte vnto the canonicall scripture But yet for this once to do the man pleasu re we will let slippe oure shoteanker and take the sees with him And for all their furious win des aÌ„d frothye waves we will never stricke say le so stronge is oure shippe aud so wel belanced Be it in case that this boke of the Macabees were of as god auctorite as Esai yet can he not prove this fyrye and paynefull purgatorye therâ—…ye For it speaketh not one worde neyther of fyre nor payne but it speaketh of a sacrifyce offered for the deed that they might be loosed from their sinnes because there is a resurreccioÌ„ of the deed which maye well be with out any payne or fyre So that this conclusion is verye baâ—… and naked It is good to offer sacrifyce for the deed that they maye be loosed from their sinnes ergo there is a sensible fyre which doth punish the holye aÌ„d chosen people of god I am sure there is no childe but he maye perceave y t this argument is nought Besides that it is to be doubted whether Iudas did well or not in offerings this sacrifyce And therfore ougâ—…t we not of a folish presumpcyon to folowe his facte vntill we knowe how it was accepted Parad venture thou wilt saye that the dede is commended in the sayed te xte where it sayeth But because he considered that they which with godlines had entred theire slepe that is their deeth had good favoure layed vpp in store for them therfore is the remeÌ„ braunce to praye for the deed hoiye and hoâ—…esome that they maye be loosed from their sinnes I answere that the persones which were slayne in the battayle for whom this prayer and sacrifyce was made were founde to haue vnder their clokes oblacyons of idolles which were at Iamniam and for that cause were they slayne as it is playne in the texte yee and all the host praysed the right iudgement of god Now these men that were so slayne were dampned by the lawe Deutero 7. which sayeth The images of their goddes thou shalt burne with fyre and se that thou covette not the silver or golde that is on them nor take it vnto the lest thou be snared therwith for it is an abominacion vnto the lorde thy god Bringe not therfore the abominacioÌ„ vnto thine house lest thou be a dampned thinge as it is But vtterlye defye it and abhorre it for it is a thinge that must be destroyed Of this maye we evideÌ„tlye perceave that albe alâ—…e 〈◊〉 did this thinge of a good minde yet was he de ceaved for his sacrifyce coulde nothinge helpe them sith they were dampned by the lawe and entred not their slepe with godlinesse as he supposed Huthermore it is evident that the Iewes 〈◊〉 sacrifices for the sinnes of them that lyved Leuitici 4 5 6. 〈◊〉 But how knew they that tho se sacrifyces shuld extendâ—… them selues vnto the sinnes of the deed And they were commaunded vnder the payne of cursinge that they shuld adde nothinge vnto the worde of god Deuter. 12. Uerelye it is like that the preastes even at that tyme sought their awne profytte
to descende vnto oure matter and disputacion which is of purgatorye I shall shewe you what occasion I had to take it in hande I wrote a letâ—…ter vnto a certayne frynde in englonde desyringe him instantlye to sende me certayne 〈◊〉 which I thought necessarye for my vse and were not to be gotten in these partyes as the cronicles Sir Thomas Mores boke agenst the supplicacion of beggers and certen other These bokes I reâ—… vppon S. Thomas daye before Christmas theyeare of oure sauioure a. M. ccccc and. XXX with a lettre writen in this forme Sir I haue sent you such bokes as you wrote for and one moo of Rastels makinge wherin he goeth aboute to proue purgatorye by natural philosophye which thinge quod he I think be more easye to do then to proue it by any good scripture 〈◊〉 This stuffe receaved I was mervelouslye desyrous and tickled to se what reasons he brought for his probacions And in the beginninge and prologe of the boke he sette seven reasons which he sayed that fonde felowes alleged for them to proue that there coulde be no purgatorye And in dede they are verye fonde that wolde denye purgatorye if there were no better argumentes to confute it then he assigneth But by goddes gra ce I will propounde seven tymes seven which shall haue such pith that their paynfull purgatorye shall not be able to abyde the worst of them for these seven that 〈◊〉 assigneth are not worth one bene Uvhen I had red and wel pondered these rea sons I thought that he shuld sharpelie haue confuted them as he might full well haue done speciallye â—…ith they were but of his awne imaginacyon Neuerthelesse when I came vnto his solucions I founde not one but it had â—…erten poyntes repugnaunte vnto the scripture vnto which onâ—…e reason must euer be obe dient yee and also they were extremelye iniutious vnto christ and his precious bloude Then left I him and red sir Thomas Moâ—…es boke to se what scripture might be brought for that purposse And after that made I diliget enquyre to come by my lorde of Rochesters boke which also writeth on the same matter aÌ„d when I had wel examined their reasons and had sene the ordre and processe of the scriptures which they alleged I founde that clerelye vere fyed which Aulus Gellius saieth that it were a greate deale better for a man to be sharpeâ—… lye rebuked yee and openlye to haue his fautes published of his enemye then to be coldlye and slenderlye praysed of his frende For a mannes enemie ensercheth narowlye aÌ„d gathereth to gi ther all that he can imagyne and so accuseth 〈◊〉 maÌ„ more of a fumous heate then of any verite and therfore the audience if they be wyse con sidre his wordes therafter and so geue verye small credence or els none vnto them But if a mâ—…nnes frinde before audience do prayse him slenderlye and coldlye it is an argument that the person is verye fautye for a frinde beholdeth al qualityes and circumstaunces his birth bringinge vpp and what feates he hath done all his liffe longe yee and applieth manye thinges vnto his frindes prayse which serue but smallye for it for he will leaue nothinge behinde that maye he imagened to employe his frendes fame aÌ„d honoure Now if in all these poyn res he can not coloure out a glorious apparent laude but is compelled for lacke of matter to prayse his frinde slenderlye then if the audien ce be wyse they maye sone coniecture that he is no prayse worthye and also maye well doubte whether that small prayse which he gaue him be true or not Euen so when I had red these bokes of Sir Thomas More and my lorde of Rochestre and sawe the smalle probacions aÌ„d â—…lender reasons that those two wittye and lerned men had brought to confirme purgatorye consideringe also that they are the chefest frindes proctoures and patrones therof and that they had applyed manye reasons aÌ„d scriptures for their pourposse for lacke of matter that rather made agenst them yee and not that onlye but also that they dissented betwene theÌ„ selues in their probacions for M. More sayeth that there is no water in purgatorye And my lorde of rochestre saveth that there is water there Master More sayeth that the ministres of the punishment are deuels And my lorde of rochestre sayeth that the ministres of the punishmeÌ„t are aungels master More sayeth that both the grace and cherite of them that lye in the paynes of purgatorye are in creased My lorde of Ro chestre sayeth that the soules in purgatorye on tayne there neyther more faith nor grace nor cherite then they brought in with them These thinges considered it made myne harte yerne and fullye to consent that this their paynfull purgatorye was but a vayne imaginacion and that it hath of longe tyme but deceaued the people and miâ—…ed them from their monye Notwithstondinge god hath lefte vs two pur gatoâ—…yes One to purge the herte and clense it from the filth which we haue partelye receaued of Adam for we are by nature the children of wrath Ephe. ii and partlye added therto by coÌ„sentinge vnto oure natural infirmite This pur gatorie is the worde of god as christ sayeth Io. xv Now are ye clene for the worde which I ha ue spoken vnto you This purgacioÌ„ obtayneth no maÌ„ but thorow faith for the vnfaithfull are not purged by the worde of god as the scribes and pharisees were nothinge the better for hea ringe his worde but rather the worse for it was a testimonye agenst them vnto their condemnacion And because we receaue this purgacion onlye thorow beleuinge the worde therfore is the vertue of this purginge applied also vnto faith for Peter saieth Ac. xv that the geÌ„tles har 〈◊〉 were purged thorow faith that is to saye thorow beleuinge the worde And what worde is that verelye the preachinge that christes deeth hath fullye fatisfyed for oure sinnes and pacefyed foreuer the fathers wrath towar des vs. 〈◊〉 This faith purefyeth the harte and geueth vs a will and gladnes to do what so euer oure most mercifull father commaundeth vs. Neuerthelesse because oure infirmitâ—…e is so greate and oure membres so weake and frayle that we can not eschewe sinne as oure harte wolde and as oure will desyreth therfore hath god lefte vs a no ther purgatorye which is christes crosse I meane not his materyal crosse that he him silfe died on but a spretuall crosse which is aduersite tribulacion worldlye depression 〈◊〉 And this is called the rod or scourge of god wherwith he scourgeth euerye sonne that he receaueth that we maye remembre his lawe and mortefye the olde Adam and fleshlye lust which els wolde wate so rebellious that it wolde subdue vs rai â—…ne in vs and holde vs thraulde vnder sinne when so euer we haue committed a cryme theu is god present with this rod as he sayth psalm lxxxix
sacrify ces can do them no good before they be rysen agayne froÌ„ deeth for els were it not in vayne to praye for theÌ„ although they shuld never ryse agayne As by example if I saye to a maÌ„ that he shall neuer optaine his purposse excepte he shul de sue to y â— kinges grace it is even as moch to saye to a mâ—… y â— hath any witte as he shall neuer optayne hys purposse before he hath sued to y â— kinges highnes Master More goeth a boute to â—…est them out of contenaunce whych saye that the boke of Machabees ys not autentyke because yt ys not receaved in the Canon of the hebrues and sayeth that by thys reason we maye also denye y â— boke of sapience and proue oure selues insipâ—… entâ—…s but 〈◊〉 if he admitte the boke of sapâ—… ence to be true and autentike I feare me it will go nye to proue him an insipient for grauntynge y t there is a purgatorie Reade y â— 45. argument agâ—…st Rastell aÌ„d theÌ„ iudge whether I saie true or not Hetherto haue I let slippe oure shoteanker haue runne y â— sees with him grauÌ„tinge him for hâ—…s pleasure y t thys boke shulde be of as good auctorite as Esai Not that the church or holie doctours or ani wise maÌ„ supposeth it of so good auctorite but onelye to se whate coÌ„clusion myght be brought vppoÌ„ it y t once grauÌ„ted And if any maÌ„ wold require my iudgemeÌ„t as coÌ„cernin ge this boke I wolde shortlye answere that ey ther thys boke is false aÌ„d of no auctoryte or els that Christ and hys apostles all holye doctoures and scolemen therto are false and with out auctoryte For he that admitteth prayers and sacrifyce to be done for the deed yee and also af fermeth that they are holye and holesom forsuch sinnes as are damned by the lawe of god which are in dede verye mortall doth not he a genst the worde of god yee and also agenâ—…t the comen consent of all men But thys boke doth so whych admitteth prayer and sacryfice to be done for the deed that were slaine in the battay le for their offence yee aÌ„d also dampned by the law Deutero 7. Now conclude youre selves what ye thinke of this boke Thus moch hath Master More brought to proue hys purposse out of the old testameÌ„t and I thynke ye se yt suffycyentlye answered And now he entendeth to proue hys purga torye by good and substancy all auctory te in the new testament also FIrst let vs considre saieth Master More the wordes of y â— blessed apostle aÌ„d eâ—…ange gelist S. Ioan. where he sayeth Est peccatuÌ„ ad morteÌ„ noÌ„ dico vt pro eo roget qs There is saith he some synne y t is vnto the deeth I byd not y â— any man shulde praye for y t this synne as y â— in terpreters agre ys vnderstonden of desperacyon and impenitencie as though Sayint Ioan wolde saye that who departe out of thys worlde impenytent or in despayre any prayer after made can never stande hym in stede Then it appareth clerelye that S. Ioan. meaâ—… neth that there are other which dye not in such case for whom he wolde men shulde praye beca use that prayer to such soules maye be profitable But that profyte can no man take beinge in hea â—…en where et nedeth not nor beinge in hell where it boteth not wherefore it appeareth y â— such praier helpeth onlye for purgagorye which thou must therfore nedes graunte excepte thou denye S. Iohan. The texte is writen 1. Ioan. 5. which sayeth there is a sinne vnto the deeth I bid not that any man shal praye for that In this place doth Master More vnderstoÌ„de by this worde deeth temporall deeth and then he taketh his pleasure But we will desyre him to loke ij lynes abo ue and not to snatch one pece of the texte on this facion I wil reherse you the hole texte and then ye shall heare myne answere The texte is this if any man perceave that his brother doth 〈◊〉 a sinne not vnto the deeth let him aske he shall geue him liffe to theÌ„ that sinne not vnto â—…th For there is somme sinne that is vnto dee th I bid not that any man shulde praye for tha 〈◊〉 Now 〈◊〉 myne answere Deeth an liffe 〈◊〉 contrarye and both wordes are in this tex te t 〈◊〉 if you vnderstonde this worde deeth 〈◊〉 emporall deeth theÌ„ must you also vnderstoÌ„ de 〈◊〉 this worde liffe teÌ„porall liffe And so shulâ—… 〈◊〉 prayer restore men agayne vnto tempo rall 〈◊〉 But I ensure you Mastre More taket 〈◊〉 this worde deeth so confusedlye that no 〈◊〉 can tell what he meaneth For in one place he taketh it for temporall deeth sayenge who so 〈◊〉 out of this worlde impeniteÌ„t cÌ„ and 〈◊〉 a nother place he is compelled to take it for therlastinge deeth Therfore will I shewe you y â— very vnderstondinge of y â— texte And better in â—…erpreters desyre I none then Christ him sâ—…lfe which sayed vnto the pharisees everye blasphe mye shall be forgeuen but the blasphemye ageÌ„st the holye gost which S. Ihoan calleth a sinne vnto the deeth shall never be forgeven but is â—…iltye vnto everlastinge dampnacion Mar. iij. â—…hat sinne or blasphemye is this â—…erelye y â— declareth S. Marc. sayenge Thâ—…y sayed that he had an vnclene sprete that was the sinne vn to deeth everlastinge that was the sinne that shulde never be forgeven He proved so evident lye vnto them that his miracles were done with the sprete of god that they coulde not denye it â—…nd yet of an harde and obstinate harte even knowinge the contrarye they sayed that he had 〈◊〉 devell with in him These pharisees died not forth with but lâ—… ved paraduenture manye yesâ—…es after Notwithstondinge if all the apostles had prayed for these 〈◊〉 whyles they were yet ly vinge for all that their sinne shulde never haue bene forgeuen them And truth it is that after they died in impenitencye and dispetaâ—…on which was the frute of that sinne but not the sinne it silfe Now se ye the meaninge of this texte and what the sinne vnto deeth or agenst the holye â—…ost is If any man perceave his brother â—…o sinne a sinne not vnto deeth that is not agenâ—… y t holye gost let him aske and he shall geve him lif fe that is let him praye vnto god for his brother and his sinne shalbe forgeuen him But if hâ—… se his brother sinne a sinne vnto deeth y â— is ageÌ„st the holye gost let him never praye for him for it â—…oteth not And so is not the texte vnderstonde of prayer after this liffe as Master More imageneth but even of prayer for oure brother which is ly vinge with vs. Notwithstondinge this sinne is not lighlye knoune excepte y â— persone knowlege it him silfe or els the 〈◊〉 of god open it vnto vs. Ther