point at it with his finger Let him I say point out with his finger what Kinges in euery age for the space of the first three hundreth yeares did walke in the brightnesse of the Churches arising It will not serue him to name Algarus of Edessa or Lucius of Britaine But he must shewe a continuall succession of Kinges for all that time or if he can not let him confesse that the externall glorie and brightnesse of the Church is not in all ages to be seene as the spirituall magnificence and light thereof is euerlasting His nexte reason is of the continuance of Pastours and teachers in the Churche which he imagineth to haue fayled in our Church for nine hundreth yeares but he is altogether deceiued For when the state of the Romishe Churche was growen to be such a confuse Babylon that it was necessary for GODS people to goe out of it Apoc. Chap. 18. verse 4. Which came not to the full ripenesse of iniquitie vntill a thousande yeares after Christe GOD sent Pastours and teachers to his Churche so departed out of Babylon in these partes of Europe which continued by succession euen vntill GOD restored his Gospell into open light of the worlde againe Beside that a great number of Easterne Churches haue continued euen from the Apostles time vnto this day though not in soundnesse of all opinions yet in open profession of Christianitie among whome doubtlesse some reteyned the foundation alwayes which were neuer obedient to the see of Rome neither partakers of a greate nomber of her horrible heresies so that if it were graunted that the Churche must alwayes be visible yet the Papistes are neuer the neare to proue their faction to be the Church because the Greeke Church for outward shewe of a Churche hath bene alwayes as notorious in the East as the Latine Church in the West Finally where Augustine sayeth although vpon a text wrongly interpreted that the Churche is placed in the sunne that is a manifest place of the worlde not in a corner like the conuenticles of heretikes He meaneth not that the Church is alwayes seene of all men but that it seeketh no corners or couerture of darkenesse as heretikes doe to shrowd their falshoode in although in the time of persecution it be driuen into streightes and is content to be hidden from the aduersaries thereof except in some cases where the glorie of CHRISTE requireth an open confession The same Augustine would haue the Churche to be known onely by the Scriptures De vnitate Ecclesiae Cap. 16. Sed utrum ipst Ecclesiam teneant non nisi divinarum scripturarrum Canonicis libris ostendunt But whether they holde the Church let them shewe by none otherwayes but by the Canonicall bookes of the holy Scriptures If the Papistes were able to proue their doctrine by the scriptures they would not labour so muche for the title of the Church which of necessitie would followe them if they taught nothing but that and all that which the holy Scriptures doe teache CAP. XIIII Three reasons why the Church of Christ ought of necessitie alwayes to be a cleare euident visible and knowen Church In the seconde of which reasons a sensible disputation is made to trie whether our countrie among other might possiblie haue attayned to the right Faith without the helpe of a knowne Church in all this pretensed time of Papistrie The first reason is that except the Church and true pastors thereof might be openly knowne the infidell seeking for Christianitie shall come from paganisme to heresie c. the grace and gift of Christ shoulde bee vnprofitable as a riche treasure fast locked vp c. which were inconuenient in many respects c. therefore the Church must be openly knowne and euident c. I aunswere this reason sauoreth of Pelagianisme which is enimie to the grace of God presupposing that Infidels of their owne good motion without the grace of God may seeke Christianitie But if wee remember what our Sauiour Christ saith No man commeth vnto me except my father drawe him Ioan. 6. ver 44. Wee must acknowledge that as it is the onely grace of God that moueth in infidels a desire to seeke Christ so the same grace and no outward appearance to be iudged by carnall reason shall directe them whom he hath chosen to eternall life among so many sectes in the worlde to finde see and acknowledge the onely true Church and piller of trueth out of which there is no saluation Wherefore this reason hath no grounde but vppon a supposition of Pelagianisme that GOD hath onely reuealed his trueth vnto men of the worlde and lefte men to their owne reason to find it out by external notes such as Infidels not lightened by Gods grace by the light of naturall reason may descerne The seconde reason is that it hath pleased God that because The seconde reason is that it hath pleased God that because faith leaneth vpon authoritie and authoritie is strong in a multitude although in the primitiue Church by miracles euident giftes of the holy ghost the authoritie of a fewe drewe whole countryes to the faith yet miracles ceasing to keepe the Church alwayes in a knowen multitude whose authoritie might drawe the simple persuade the learned and keepe out the heretikes If this carnal reason were good there were smal or no vse of the scriptures at all The authoritie of the Church and that alwayes knowne might suffice for all matters But Augustine saith hee in his booke de vxilitate credendi ad Honoratum Cap. 14. vseth this reason to bring Honoratus from the Manichees to the Catholikes out of whome he citeth a long discourse to this effect That as the common multitude and fame moueth a man to beleeue that there was such a one as Christ and that his writings and scriptures are to be credited so of the head rulers of that multitude and not of any priuie and newe sect such as the Manichees was he must learne the vnderstanding of this booke and scriptures This he taketh vppon him to exemplifie by the state of our countrey at the firste conuersion thereof by Augustine Although this carnal reason might haue some shew with Honoratê° a straunger from the Church and one not lightened with the spirite of God yet howe vaine it is being applyed to the Papistes you may easily see by this that since the Church of Rome hath been the Church of Antichrist as great a multitude which might and hath moued many infidels to receuie the profession of Christianitie hath beene seperated from it as hath cleaued to it Put the case then of an infidell in the East which moued by the fame and consent of many nations hath thought well of Christ hath giuen credite to the Scriptures to what head rulers shoulde be resort for instruction in the Scriptures to the rulers of that multitude by which he was first moued to beleeue then shoulde he neuer become a Papist For all the Patriarches
a sacrifice but of thanks giuing as the same Augustine writeth De fide ad Pet. Cap. 19 Cont. aduers. leg Proph. lib. 1. Cap. 20. Wherefore his Popish bragg notwithstanding here is neuer an ancient father within the 600. yeares that acknowledgeth the propitiatorie sacrifice of the Masse The eight difference is intercession of saints which Protestants abhorre There is no man denyeth but that this errour preuailed within the time of the first 600. yeares and namely in the later 300. years For in the first 300. there is nothing to be found whereby it may be gathered Epiphanius accompteth inuocation of Angels an heresie of the Caiani Tom. 3. H. 38. And although some shewe of inuocation of saints in the later time may be excused by rethorical exornation as M. Grindall truely sayd some prayers for the dead as y t of Ambrose for Theodosius whome both he calleth a perfect seruant of god yet prayth fos his rest which agreeth not with popish prayers for them in Purgatory yet it is confessed y t this was one of y â— spots of that time which being not proued by scripture can be nothing else but a superstition of men What said I can it not be proued by scripture beholde the learned clerke M. Stapl. proueth it out of S. Peter Ep. 2. Ca. 1. I thinke it right as long as I am in this tabernacle to stirre you vp and admonish you being certeine that I shall shortly leaue this tabernacle according as our Lord Iesus Christ hath signified vnto me But I will endeuour also to haue you often after my death that you may remember these things Here is a strange kind of translation of these wordes of his owne Latine texte Dabo autem operam frequenter habere vos post obituÌ„ meuÌ„ vt horum memoriam faciatis But I will endeuour also y t you may haue after my departure whereby to make remembrance of these things For I wil neither trouble him with the Greeke text which perhaps he regardeth not nor with Erasmus translation which are without all ambiguitie But I apeale to GraÌ„marians whether habere vos in this place may be reasonably construed to haue you or else be resolued by vt habeatis vos that you may haue His collection is more monstrous then his construction for thus he addeth immediatly after his translation I aske here How will S. Petter after his death endeuour and procure that the people may remember his sayings They will not I dare say say that he will come in a vision or by reuelation vnto them What remaineth then but that he will further them with his good prayers And so doe the auncient Greeke Scholies expound this place And I aske here Howe prooue you that S. Peter after his death will endeuor procure for them O shamelesse corruption S. Peter saith that bicause he hath not long to liue he will not only put them in remembrance liuing but also leaue his Epistle that it may be a perpetuall admonition of them euen after he is deade But the auncient Greeke Scholies as he saith doe so expound it Why are not those Scholies set downe and their antiquitie shewed to be within the compasse of the first sixe hundreth yeares In deede Occumenius which liued about fiue hundreth yeres last past reporteth that some did wrest that text vnto such a sense but they which did simplie handle y â— words of S. Peter did expound it as I haue done before The 9. difference is commemoration of Saintes at Masse time If you meane commemoration onely as I haue shewed before we make it in our Communion and therefore this is no difference but a lye of Master Stapleton for we say Therefore with Angels and Archangels and all the holy companie of heauen we laude and magnifie c. Likewise in the Collectes mention is made of the Apostles whose memorie our Church doth keepe In deede we vse no inuocation of Saints which was vsed within the latter 300. yeares but not to be proued in the first 300 yeares Neither do we thinke the honour of Saintes to be a dishonour to God but such honour as robbeth God of his glorie which he will not communicate with any creature But Augustine sheweth the memorie of Martyrs to be kept of the Christian people Ad excitandam imitationem vt merius eorum consocietur atque orationibus adiâ—uetur To stirre vp imitation and that they may be ioyned in fellowship of their merites and helped with their praiers The fellowship of their merites he meaneth to be made like them in good workes For he acknowledged no desert of our good workes but onely the mercy of God It is pitie that Iulian the Apostata had so great occasion to charge the Christians with superstition of sepulchres whereof they had no ground in the Scriptures Although Cyrillus defendeth no superstition but only a reuerent estimation of the tombes of the Martyrs for their vertues sake after the example of the heathen Againe he saith that the reliques of the dead were not seene bare and negligently cast vpon the earth but well laide vp and hidden in the bosome of their mother in the deapth of the earth wherein they differred not a little from the vsage of Papistes about their reliques Cyrill Contr. Iulian lib. 10. The pride of Eustachius in contemning the publike Churches ministring in corners we condemne with the Councel of Gangra Concerning the reading of the passions of Martyrs in the Church which he cauilleth that Master Iewell left out in his replie to Doctor Harding out of the seuen and fourtie Canon of the Councel of Carthage 3. Bartholmewe Garizon confesseth that it is an addition and without all such addition the same that M. Iewell requireth that nothing be read in the Church but the canonicall bookes as the 59. Canon of the Councel of Laodicea The 10. difference is of confession and penance in which he maketh two kinds open confession priuate for the open confession vsed in the primitiue Church he bringeth many proofes out of Actes 19. Augustine Tertullian Cyprian the councel of Nice Which need not for we graunt that it was vsed we our selues according to such discipline as our Church of England hath doe vse it that publique and notorious offenders make publique confession of their faultes for satisfaction of the congregation But when this publique confession was abused he saith that this practise of the Church and the counsel of S. Iames willing Christians to confesse one before an other was restrained to the auricular confessioÌ„ of y â— priest only But neither he sheweth when nor by what authoritie the counsel of y â— the Apostle and practise of the Church was thus altered He citeth an Epistle of Innocentius ad Decentium cap. 7. to proue That particular confession was not first instituted in the Councel of Latarane as Caluine babbleth but that if a man were diseased he should not tarrie for the time
knewe that he were a Iewe. So wise he is to compare the superstition of the wicked Turkes with the obseruation of the lawe by the godly Iewes Nay hee is yet more eloquent and sheweth that the Protestantes are like the Turkes in condemning of images in allowing marriage after deuorce c. as though we might not acknowledge one God lest we should be like the Turkes and Iewes nor honour vertue nor dispraise vice because they do so nor obey magistrates nor eat and drinke because the Turkes and Iewes doe so O deepe learning of a lawyer diuine That Images do not teach he sayeth it is a position more boldly aduouched then wisely proued then quoteth Gregorie Ep. 9. lib. 9. c. but he is deceiued if he thinke we holde that images teach not for we affirme with the Prophet Abacuc that they teache lyes Cap. 2. ver 18. vanitie Ier. 10. ver 8. As for the story of Amadis the Goldsmith and the Epistle of Eleutherius fetched out of the guild hall in London as M. Calfhill maketh no great accompt of them so I passe them ouer although Martiall would haue men thinke they be the strongest arguments the Protestants haue against the superstition of the crosse and the vsurped tyrannie of the Pope Finally the excuse he maketh of his railing by M. Calfhils example how honest it is I referre to wise men to consider If M. Calfhill had passed the bondes of modestie it were small praise in Martiall to follow him yea to passe him But if M. Calfhill as indifferent menâ—â—ay thinke hath not greatly exceeded in termes of â—eate against Martials person whatsoeuer he hath spoken against his heresies the continuall scorning both of M. Calfhils name and his person vsed so often in euery leafe of his reply in the iudgement of all reasonable persons will cause Martiall to be taken for a lawlesse wrangler rather then a sober and Christian lawyer The first Article This article hath no title and in effect it hath no matter For 13. leaues are spent about a needelesse impertinent controuersie of the Authoritie of y e holy Scriptures and of the Church of God whereof the one is the rule of faith the other is the thing ruled and directed thereby Nowe whether ought to bee y e Iudge the rule or the thing ruled is the question The rule say wee as the lawe the Church sayeth he as the Iusticier And then we are at as great controuersie what or where the Church is In effect the coÌ„trouersie commeth to this issue whether he be a Iusticier or an iniusticier which pronounceth sentence contrary to the lawe I would think that common reason might decide these questions That he which giueth sentence against the lawe may haue the name and occupy the place of a Iusticier but a true Iusticier he cannot be in deede Right so the Popish Church which condemneth the trueth for heresie hath vsurped as the Iudge but in deede is a cruell tyrant But the controuersie is not of the worde but of the meaning and where shall that be founde but in the mouth of the Iudge sayeth he if this were true I woulde neuer be a Bachiler of lawe if I were as Martiall nor yet a doctor thereof except it were to deceiue poore clyantes for their money if there were not a sence or meaning of the lawe which other men might vnderstande as well as he that occupyeth the place of the Iudge that I might appeale when I sawe he gaue wrong sentence But let vs briefely runne ouer his Achillean arguments The Eunomians Arrians Eutychians and Maximus the heretike reiected the testimonies of the fathers and the authoritie of the Church and appealed to Scriptures So doeth manye â— wrangling lawyer to continue his fee from his clyant appeale when he hath no cause but receyued right sentence according to the lawe ergo no appeale is to be admitted This is Martials lawe or logyke I knowe not whether But what was this Maximus you name so often Master Martial that S. Augustine writ against Could you reade your note booke no better Against Maximinus the Arrian he writeth that neither of them both was to be holden by the authoritie of Councels the Nicen or the Ariminense but by the authorities of the Scripture lib. 3. Cap. 4. But Tertullian would haue heretikes conuinced by the authoritie of the Church and not of the Scriptures Yea verely but such heretikes as denyed certeine scriptures and peruerteth the rest by their false interpretations Such are the Protestantes sayeth Martial for Luther denyeth the Epistle to the Hebrues the Apocalipse the Epistle of S. Iames and S. Iude. But Luther is not all Protestants neyther did Luther alwayes or altogether denye them Neither do the Protestantes affirme anye thing in matters of controuersie in their interpretations but the same is affirmed by writers of the most auncient and pure Church Martiall obiecteth that Christe sent not his disciples alwayes to the Scriptures but sometimes to the figge tree to the flowers of the fielde to the fowles of the ayre c. Paul alledgeth the heathen Poet also customs tradition And we also vse similitudes of Gods creatures and alledge custome and condition but so that the scripture be the onely rule of trueth whereto whatsoeuer in the worlde agreeth is true whatsoeuer disagreeth from it is false The traditions of the Apostles which by their writings wee knowe to be theirs we reuerently receiue not as mens traditions but as the doctrine of God for wee heare them euen as God Also we heare the voice of the Church admonishing vs if we giue offence Finally y e Patriarks Prophets Apostles EuaÌ„gelists Pastors and doctors we all reuerence and heare as the messengers of God but so that they approue vnto vs their sayings out of the worde of God and doctrine of Christ. Likewise we admit the writings of the fathers so farre as they agree with the writings of God and further to be credited they them selues required not The sayings of the doctors that Martiall citeth for the credite of old writers you shall finde satisfied in mine answere to Hoskins almost in order as they be here set downe for one Papist boroweth of another and fewe of them haue any thing of their owne reading The saying of Clemens is aunswered lib. 1. Cap. 8. Eusebius concerning Pâ—â— and Gregory and Hieronime Cap. 7. The sayâ—â—â— of Irenaeus and Athanasius that we ought to hauâ—â—course to the Apostolike Churches which reteine the doctrine of the Apostles against newe heresies as also of Tertullian to the like effect we acknowledge to be true but seeing the Church of Rome reteineth not the Apostolike doctrine at this day we deny it to be an Apostolike Church Therefore as many as build vppon it or vpon any auncient writers wordes which hath not the holy scriptures for his warrant as M. Cal. sayde buyldeth vpon an euill ground For if an Angell from heauen teach otherwise then the