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A36727 A conference between an orthodox Christian and a Socinian in four dialogues : wherein the late distinction of a real and nominal Trinitarian is considered / by H. de Lvzancy ... De Luzancy, H. C. (Hippolyte du Chastelet), d. 1713. 1698 (1698) Wing D2417; ESTC R31382 78,348 146

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not impos'd tyrannically without reasons or arguments to inforce its necessity and usefulness but with all the proper methods to engage our assent We believe because we have all the Reason in the World so to do And Faith becomes our choice upon the noblest and strongest Motives that can be I do Reason all the justice and honour which it can expect or deserve by saying that our most Holy Religion is built on this most rational Principle than which Man has none stronger none more evident Whatsoever God reveals is true and therefore the Mysteries of Christianity are true because God has reveal'd them There is no exception against the first of these Propositions In abundance of other things Reason is in the dark but it meets with no sort of obscurity in this The second then is its work and exercise to which it ought to be apply'd Reason must satisfy it self whether God has reveal'd what Religion offers It is highly just that it should be so or else every thing will be call'd Revelation and every folly consecrated by pretending to have God for its Author Men will see vanity and divine lyes saying thus says the Lord when the Lord has not spoken Ezek. 22.28 Thus St. Paul exhorts the Thessalonians 1 Thess 5.21 to prove all things and hold fast that which is good Compare all the Sects which have pretended to instruct Men in relation to a better Life Try even those Systems which boast an infallible Judge Let nothing that assumes the Name of Truth escape a severe inquiry But when all is done hold fast that which is good to wit that which we are perswaded cannot deceive us even the Revelation of God You see then a large Province for Reason to act in And at the same time how easy is that task which brings us at last to the Author of our being to receive the Truth at his hands Socin All this is well But still vast difficulties present themselves First Where is this Revelation which you suppose I know you will answer immediately that it is to be found in the Sacred Writings But then you make it to be the Province of Reason to satisfy it self in the Truth of the Revelation If by this you mean the certainty of the Divine Records you plunge your self in endless and I will say unsuccessful questions about their Inspiration You will be forc'd to shew which of them are inspir'd and which are not You will find them who have pleaded for the Gospels of Basilides Apelles and Tatianus For that according to St. Peter St. Paul St. Thomas c. For the Acts of the Apostles by St. Andrew St. Philip c. For other Epistles of St. Paul than those which we have and several Writings related by St Hierom de Scriptor Eccl. in Luc. and censur'd by Gelasius you will meet with Prochorus and Abdias the Babylonian and a world of spurious Writers pretending the Divine Revelation Secondly If you pass from the certainty of the Records to the particular places by which you affirm that God has reveal'd your Doctrine their sence will be still disputed It will be said that God indeed has reveal'd them but not in the sence which you understand them in And it will be the same as if you had no Revelation at all Thirdly Supposing that Reason can effect all this whose Reason must it be Is it that as you were pleas'd to speak of the common Saylor the Souldier the labouring Man Indeed the Principle will stand unmoveable what God has reveal'd is true But your Assertion that he has reveal'd the Mysteries of Christian Religion will be disputed partly from the uncertainty whether the Records are truly Divine partly from the doubt of the sence of the particular places which you alledge So that Reason in most Men will have nothing to do because they are not capable of learned inquiries and the few that are will wrangle with you to the end of the World Orthod The first of your objections cannot be propos'd by a Socinian It is of some force in the Mouth of a Heathen or of a Deist Were I to argue against either of them I ought not to take it ill if they oblig'd me to prove the certainty and inspiration of the Divine Records Nor is this so difficult as you imagine Criticks have made that a Controversy which is none in it self and never was so before So great and venerable are the Arguments by which the Divinity of the Sacred Writings is prov'd that nothing has yet been said of any moment against it It is to no purpose to insist on this with you who own the Scripture to be a compleat and infallible rule of Faith Nor is it more necessary to make it appear that the Books in dispute in the Primitive Ages of the Church were spurious For besides that we have nothing left of them but their Names and that too with some diversity and that they obtain'd very little because the cheat was presently found out it would not be fair in you to put one to the trouble of disproving Books which you disprove your self You admit with all the rest of Christians the Canon of the old and new Testament Pag. 6. of the Answer to Mr. Edwards Whereas Mr. Edwards says the Author would intimate that we reject divers Books of Scripture on the contrary we receive into our Canon all the Books of Scripture that are receiv'd or own'd by the Church of England and we reject the Books rejected by the Church of England So then all this difficulty is over Your second objection is as easily resolv'd When ever any thing is propos'd as Faith the business of Reason is to see whether it is to be found in those Writings wherein we all confess that God has reveal'd what we ought to believe Thus the Beraeans Act 17.11 at the preaching of Paul Search'd the Scriptures daily whether the things which he said to them were so They sound his allegations true and therefore many of them believ'd Nor will this as you insinuate resolve it self into a dispute about the sence of the places alledg'd For as we have said before those places are so plain so uncapable of any other sence than what they offer The deductions from them are so Natural and easy that all disputing is wholly exciuded For instance the Debate between you and me is about the Holy Trinity You deny and I affirm it We both agree upon a Medium to find whether it is so or no And that is the Authority of the Sacred Writings If in them there is a clear Revelation that God is one and if I produce those Texts which plainly and naturally attributes those qualifications to Father Son and Holy Spirit which are communicable to no created Being and cannot be diverted any other way without changing the sence of the proposition you must as the Noble and Candid Spirits of Beraea certainly yield Against your third objection I say that the
ever profess'd a Reveal'd Religion none but the Socinians have oppos'd it The very Jews themselves were not without it The Author of the ancient Book Cosri par 4. c. 27. says that Abraham came first to the knowledge of God by Reason but that after God had Reveal'd himself to him he gave over all his Arguments to stick to the Revelation And that the old Rabbins understood the 12. of Genesis v. 1. Get thee out of thy Country and Gen. 15.5 And he brought him forth abroad in an Allegorical sence as if God by these Words had commanded him to go from himself his humane way of apprehensions his weak ratiocinations and leave himself wholly to his conduct I confess the Allegory is more pious than solid It has a tincture of Rabbinism all over But still it is home to the point which I was to prove that the Jews in this had the same notion with the Christians that when Reason is satisfy'd that the Almighty speaks it ought to submit and stifle all its pretended contradictions Socin If the Ancient Jews were so much for believing how come the Modern to be so incredulous They are as mighty sticklers as we for the Unity of the Great God They deny CHRIST to be God Yet to them were committed the Oracles of God How comes it then that they are not affected with that Revelation of a Trinity which you pretend to be so plain and express Orthod It will carry us too far out of our subject to lay down the Causes of their Incredulity But yet it must be said that in their disputes with us they have been more sincere than you as to the main point on which this Controversy turns For they have not pretended to Reason about this or build their denial upon imaginary Contradictions the weak efforts of a Reason at a stand but they have rejected all the new Dispensation and disown'd CHRIST to be the MESSIAS In a word they have disputed the Revelation A Topick which you cannot pretend to because you admit the Sacred Writings of the New Testament I shall say no more to this but dispatch the third consideration and see the use of Reason after Faith is admitted and put your patience to a new trial Socin You command my attention Orthod I say then that Reason thus resign'd ceases not to act The noble Faculty has still a large Field to exercise it self in For though it supposes the Axiomata the first Principles of Christianity the Divine Mysteries to be so certain as not to be capable of the least doubt but to be admitted with the most humble adoration and sincere and firm assent that can be yet there are some Universal and some Particular dependent inferior Truths which it has the liberty to consider There are things which we know by Faith alone others by Reason alone and others by Faith and Reason together Of the first sort are the Mysteries of the Holy Trinity Incarnation Resurrection c. It is of these that St. Ambrose de vocat Gent. says excellently Magna est fortitudo consensionis cui ad sequendum veritatem Auctoritas sufficit etiam latente ratione That assent has a great force which though we cannot see the Reason of things yet makes us to embrace the Truth on the bare account of Authority A doctrine so known so reverenc'd in the Primitive Church that St. Austin is so far from pretending that we can dispute about them that when the Philosophers would argue against them who had embrac'd Christianity he makes them answer thus Serm. 189. de temp Accepto Baptismo hoc dicimus Fidelis factus sum Credo quod Nescio Having receiv'd Baptism we say this I am become a Christian I believe what I cannot understand In this Reason has nothing to do I am altogether determin'd by Faith It is from thence that the School-men have laid this as a Principle in their barbarous way of speaking that Habitus Fidei non est discursious sed animus unico actu fertur in objectum materiale propter formale Which in plain English is this that Faith depends not from Reason and Discourse but that the Soul of Man by the same act embraces the truth propos'd a secondary sort of an object upon the account of the first which is God revealing it to us Of the second sort is whatsoever is not of Faith but only serves to illustrate and confirm to defend and propagate it All our Arguments are the product of Reason There is a Divine Oeconomy and Coherence in the Sacred Writings which it perceives and from which it draws inferences An Analogy of Faith which by the concord and relation of the several parts make up the whole body of Divinity It is a judicious observation of St. Austin de Trin. lib. 14. c. 1. that as there are things which can never be understood except they are believ'd so there are things which can never be believ'd except they are understood And such are Prophecies of which it is said 2 Pet. 1.19 We have also a more sure word of Prophecy whereunto you do well that you take heed as unto a light that shines in a dark place until the day dawn and the day Star arise in your Hearts A Prophecy cannot be believ'd except Reason has made way to Faith by being convinc'd of its accomplishment Thus CHRIST argu'd Luk. 24.44 These are the words which I spoke to you whilst I was with you that all things must be fulfill'd which were written in the Law of Moses and in the Prophets and in the Psalms concerning me For though Prophecy has the Sanction of the Divine Authority and is to be assented unto even as to its future accomplishment because none of the Words of God can fall to the ground yet when you tell me that it is accomplish'd it is altogether the work of my Reason to examine whether it is so or no God by his Prophets and indeed by the two first Dispensations that of Nature and that of the Law has promis'd that a MESSIAS should come for the Redemption of Mankind The Prophecies concerning him are many and express Some describe his Nature others his Person Some his miraculous Works others his Heavenly Doctrine Some the time and place of his coming others his Life Death Resurrection Ascension c. All this is true and Antecedently commands our belief because God has spoke it But whether this or that Person is the MESSIAS must depend from an examination in whom all these things are fullfill'd Whether in this or that Man And this is certainly the Work of Reason The same must be said of Miracles There is not a more forcible Argument that the Author of Nature has Reveal'd a Doctrine than when he alters or suspends its ordinary course to confirm it But still I have a Liberty to try whether the Spirits are of God Whether it is a real Miracle and not an Illusion Whether the Matter of Fact is true Thus Act.