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A51590 The Catholike scriptvrist, or, The plea of the Roman Catholikes shewing the Scriptures to hold forth the Roman faith in above forty of the chiefe controversies now under debate ... / by I.M. Mumford, J. (James), 1606-1666. 1662 (1662) Wing M3063; ESTC R32100 169,010 338

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again And hence these sins are called veniall such as easily have pardon 13. Whence our Saviour himself doth distinguish severall sins and affirms some of them to deserve punishment but not hell fire Matth. 5. v. 22. Whosoever is angry for so the Protestant Bibles read it with his Brother shall be in danger of Iudgment And whosoever shall say to his Brother Raca shall be in danger of Councill And whosoever shall say thou fool shall be in danger of hell fire Of which only eternall punishment the two former sins did not endanger us they being but veniall Hence it is evident that there be some sins which God judgeth worthy of punishment and yet not to deserve hell fire and he speaks of the punishment of the next life as of hell c. Again Matth. 12.36 I say unto you that every idle word that man shall speak he shall render an account therof in the day of Iudgment The words of lesser anger deserved not hell fire as the former Text taught us yet they being worse then meer idle words some punishment is due to them For here this Text sayth some account must be rendred even for every idle word But a lesser account then for angry words and therefore they will not alone make us liable to hell fire Again Matth. 7.3 some sins be called Beams some only Mothes which name Christ hating deadly sin to death would never give to any sin that were damnable Neither would he if these lesser sins were damnable speak of them as he doth Matth. 23. v. 24. You tithe Mint and Anise c blinde guides that strain a gnat and swallow a Camel Behold some sins only like gnats and the doing of them compared to the fault that would be in omitting te pay Tythe for Mint and Anise Yet because all veniall sins do something pollute the soule this stain must be purged or cleansed Often this is not done in this world for we see dayly men continew in doing these sins to the last loosing all sense and life allso before they repent them some account then in Iudgment following after death immediately will be given of them Not in Hell for they deserve it not therefore in Purgatory 14. Agreable to this is that which our Saviour sayth Luke 12.47 That servant who knoweth the will of his Lord and doth not according to his will shall be beaten with many stripes but he that knoweth it not and doth things worthy of stripes shall be beaten with few stripes Hence it is evident that there be some men who do things worthy of stripes which they shall not escape but yet they shall be beaten with few stripes But if these stripes be to be laid on for all eternity as all stripes be which are paid in Hell they will not be few because being everlasting the number of them will be without number will then any one call these stripes few Or can any man perswade himself that a God who is all mercy will in this unmercifull manner punish the speaking of one idle word Yet Christ himself sayth that we shall be accountable for every idle word we speak Matth. 12. Wherefore we must be lyable to some punishment for every idle word so that if a man of full age converted from Idolatry be baptized and by and by after killed before he commit any other sin then the speaking of one idle word only shall this man be tormented for ever and ever so long as God shall be God And shall the Father of mercies give this unmercifull sentence Doubtlesse if any man can do a thing worthy of stripes and for doing it deserve only to be beaten with few stripes this man may hope for this mercy But for greater then this he cannot hope seeing that Christ sayth that some account is to be given for that idle word Some punishment therefore he must suffer but not eternall and consequently not in Hell but in Purgatory For he must be beaten with few stripes not with masny or everlasting stripes If this principle so well grounded in Scripture be true then it cannot but be true that there is a Purgatory 15. The third principle clearly allso contained in Scripture is that prayer may profitably be made for the dead This is proved as well out of the old as new Testament In the old Testament 2. Mach. 12. where after diverse of the souldiers of Iudas Machabeus had been slain in the Battle v. 43. He making a gathering sent twelve thousand drachmes of silver to Hierusalem to have Sacrifice offered for the sins of the dead well and religiously thinking of the resurrection For unlesse he hoped that they who were slain should rise again it should seem superfluous and vain to pray for the dead It is therefore a holy and healthfull cogitation to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from theyr sins Your English Bibles so mangle the sense here that I would not follow them I know Protestants will say these Books be not Canonicall though in the third Councel of Carthage Can. 47. They be registred in the Canon Yet not to dispute this matter I take that which is granted without all dispute that is that these Books be writen by a true and faithfull writer of the ancient Church History or else why do you place them in the Bible And without dispute allso they were written before our Saviours time So that by the most grave testimony of so antient a writer of Ecclesiasticall History we have first that Iudas Machabeus who then was High Priest and allso chief commander of the Iewes Gods only true people did hold prayer for the dead to be laudable Secondly that this was not his private opinion but a thing done confirmably to the custome of the Iewish Church which to this very day uses prayer for the dead Thirdly all the souldiers being men who had devoted theyr lives for the defence of the true belief concurred by contributing to this act of Piety That Sacrifice might be offered for the dead Fourthly the Priests of Hierusalem who best knew theyr Churches custome in Sacrifices for the dead which were the same that for sin are never sayd to have scrupulized at the matter Fifthly this most ancient Historian recommends this custome as holy All these things not being singular in those men alone and happening not full two hundred yeares before Christ and still lasting to this day among the Iewes there could not but be many who practised this so commō a thing in his and his Apostles times And yet you never read the least reprehension given them for it 16. Out of the new Testament we have two places First S. Paul 1. Cor. 15.29 What shall they do who are baptized for the dead if the dead do not rise att all to what end are they baptized for them As if he would say to what end do men do pennance for the dead To what end is this done if there be no resurrection and
whom they committed the Churches To which ordinance many Nations of those barbarous people who have believed in Christ do consent with out letter or inke having salvation that is soul-saving doctrine written in their heartes For a world of the first believers did never so much as see all scripture It was the yeare 99. before S. Iohn writt his Gospell And when the Canon of Scripture was fully ended there is no mētion made euen of the l●●st care taken by the Apostles to divulge the Scripture in barbarous languages no nor to divulge it in latin it selfe as you must needes say who deny primitive Antiquity to all Latine Editions All this cleerly proves that Tradition was relyed upon as upon the word of God it selfe Whence S. Paul did not only counsel but also commāded the Thessalonians to with draw them selves from all who walked not after the Tradition they had received of their P●stors 2. Th●s 3.6 Now sayd he● wee comaund you Bretheren in the name of our Lord that ye with draw your selves from every brother that walketh discorderly and not after the Tradition which he receaved of us 5. It was for the keeping this Tradition and forme of Faith why he praysed the Romans Ch. 6.17 You have obeyed from your heart the forme of doctrine what was delivered you This forme could not be a forme conteyned in the whole Canon of Scripture for the whole Canon was not finished when S. Paul did write this It was therefore the forme of uniforme Traditiō delivered in each church which taught by word of mouth all th nges necessary For this he praysed the Corinthians 1 Cor. 11.2 Now I prayse to Bretheren that you keepe the Traditions so you put in the margen● but in the Text you read Ordinances as I eliverded them to you This Forme these Traditions these Ordounances are inculcated again and again 1. Tim. 6.20 O Thimothie keep that which is committed to thy trust And v. 3. If any one teached otherwise he is proud knowing nothing Again 2. Tim. 1.13 Hold fast the good forme of good words which thou hast heard of me That good thing which was committed to thee keep by the H. Ghost Again Ch. 3.14 But thou continue in those things which thou hast learned and been assured of knowing of whom thou hast learned them learned I say by word of mouth for by writing he had received but title So also when as yet by writing he had taught the Romans nothing he in his first and only Epistle to them wrote thus Rom. 16.17 Now I beseeeh you Bretheren mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned Likwise when as yet he had written nothing to the Galatians for where is any such writing he begines thus Gal. 1.6 I maruel that so soon you are removed from him who called you into the grace of Christ unto an other Ghospell I say removed that is changed from the forme of Faith which I delivered which was a true though not a written Ghospel into an other Ghospel taught by these new otherwise teathers yet sayth he with all earnestness Although wee or an Angel from heaven preach any other Ghospel unto you then that ye have receaved let them be accursed v. 8. S. Paul as yet had preached nothing to them in writing but they had received all by Orall Tradition and yet not with standing once again more vehemently v. 9. As wee have sayd before so I say now again if any man preach any other Ghospel unto you thē that you have received be he accursed Note the word Received intimating that they had all by Tradition For what as then had they received from him in writing And he sayth no more then other Apostles Who did write nothing but delivered all by Orall Tradition might truly have sayed of the Ghospel so delivered by them Neither did S. Paul speake of what they should receive many yeares after but of what they had as thē received For that was as true as any thing they should receive by writing And therefore for theyr forsaking of what they had received thus he most deservedly sayth unto them O Foolish Galatians who hath bewitched you c. 3. v. 1. For indeed they seeme bewitched out of theyr senses who to follow the private judgment of some otherwise teachers reject what they had received by the full and still-continued report of all Christianity from the first teachers of the faith 6. They object Tradition to be the word of men but all these arguments shew this Apostolicall Tradition for which only wee now contend to be the word of God A forme of sound words And 1. Thes 2.13 Ye received the word of God which ye heard of us ye received it not as the word of men but as it is in truth the word of God Behold what was heard by them by only word of mouth was in truth the word of God Therefore a fitt Rule of Faith even before it was written 7. They aske how wee know a true Apostolicall Tradition from a false one which is the tradition of men I answer that a true Apostolicall Tradition cometh downe handed by a full unanimous report of all Catholike Nations in all ages attested by thyr universall practise and uniforme doctrine what is thus delivered is the Doctrine of the Church diffused and therefore infallible upō this ground for other infallible groundes you have none you receive only such and such Scripture for Canonicall and such and such copies of the Scripture for Authenticall We can therefore to the full as well distinguish true Traditions from false ones or Apostolicall Traditions from Traditions of Ordinary men as you can distinguish the Authenticall copie of theyr writings from such as are forged or corrupted for you must first distinguish the truth of the Tradition which recommend such bookes unto you from all false Traditions THE THIRD POINT Of the never fayling of the Church which beeing perpetuall can preserve perpetuall Traditions Also of succession of true Pastors and Professors 1. IF the Church of Christ could fayle or cease to be it is evident Tradition might fayle and not be preserved in its purity The true Church is both infallible as long as she lasts of which see Point 5 and is allso sure to last to the end of the world Yea she is assured all this time to have a lawful succession of true Pastors and under them true Professors of the faith in a vast number find any such Church besides the Roman if you can and I give you leave to call that the true Church And lest perhaps the great number of powerfull Texts which we are to cite should worke smale effect with minds prepossest with one or two objections to the contrary we will first cleare them and then passe to the manifold cleere Texts which demonstrate the true Church at no time to be in a lurking Invisibility 2. The prime objection is from the wordes of Elias
publick practice and also upon all occasions taught by word of mouth and expressed in written bookes Thus our common law in England though never written by any lawmaker is notwithstanding by dayly practice most faithfully kept and hath been so for so many hundred yeares by the whole Nation diffused And in this manner the Church diffused keepeth in perpetuall practice and delivereth to her children as infallible truth what was first delivered unto her by commission from God either in writing or by word of mouth The other way of making and delivering Laws is to call togeather the represētative body of the Community So here in England our statute laws are made not onely by the King nor onely by the Parlament but by the order both of King and Parlament And what is thus enacted is the decree of the Natiō representative Now as the represētative of our nation is the King and Parlament so the Church Representative is the chiefe Pastour thereof togeather with a Lawfull generall Councill And the definitions and decrees set forth by their authority be called the definitions and the decrees of the Church Representative All such definitions we Romā Catholicks hold infallible Whither the definition of a Councill alone defining without their chiefe Pastour or the definitions of the chiefe Pastour alone defining without a Councill be infallible or no there be severall opinions amongst us in which we do and may varie without any prejudice to our Faith which is not built upon what is yet under opinion but upon that which is delivered as infallible and we all unanimously hold that to be so which the universall Church Representatiue consisting joyntly of the chiefe Pastour of the sayd Church voting in and with a Generall Councell not that this Representatiue made wholy of men is not of its owne nature subject to errour For this we never affirme And so our adversaries say nothing at all to the purpose whilst they labour to proue this Let thē disproue if they can and that out of Scripture alone that which we say to witt that this Church Representatiue is infallible meerly and purely by the speciall assistance of the Divine Provedence always affording to his Church a sufficient measure of the spirit of truth to lead her into all truth And that he is evcr so surely resolved to do this that no sinns of his Church shall ever hinder him from doeing of it as is most expressly delivered by God himselfe Psalm 89. in the words cited by me at large Point 3. n. 3. Which place the Reader shall find most convincing to prove that notwithstanding all the sinns that shall euer happen in his Church the sunne and moone shall sooner faile then God will faile to provide a successour in Christs throne to governe his Church in the profession of truth so as his faithfulnes shall not faile nor none of his words be frustrated which you shall see delivered again and again in the ensueing places of Scripture All which to the number of thirty I gather to fully because the Protestants exclaime againest nothing more then the Churches claime to infallibility which D. Ferne calls The very bane of Christendome though it be the very ground worke of Christianity For all interpretation of Seripture is fallible if the interpretation of the Church be fallible euen then when she hath carefully conferred Scripture with Scripture 2. And to avoide confusion I will divide these thirty Texts into these three severall sorts The first sort shall containe eyther such as command vs absolutly to follow and obey the Church in such a māner as would wholy misbeseeme God to commaund vs if she could thrust errours vpon vs for Divine verities or such Texts as theach vs to relie more vpon the Church then could prudently be done if she could teach errour The second sort shall containe a multitude of such glorious expressions made every where of the Church as would be most emptie and truthlesse if the Church should ever prove a Mistris of errours and presse them on her children for Divine verities The third and last sort shall be such Texts as plainly affirme Truth to be still taught in the Church and to be intailed vpon her promising she shall not revolt from it but stand still a true piller and ground of Truth 3. Of the first sort of Texts we haue these by which eyther God commaundes vs vniversally to follow his Church or speakes that of his Church which could not be delivered as it is if this Church could erre For example how could God glorie in the multitude of such as follow his Church if by so doeing they should be led into errour And yet Isaias 2. God seemes to glorie in the multitude of those who confidently resort to the Church as to a Mistris of assured Truth to be instructed by her saying v. 3. Let us goe vp to the mountaine of our Lord and he wil teach us his wayes and we shall walke in his pathes and he shall judge among the natiōs Behold Christ erecting a Court or tribunal in his Church to judge amōg natiōs ād decide all their cōtroversies which must needs suppose obediēce to be yeilded to this judgmēt Yea the same Prophet adds c. 54. v. 17. that No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper and every tongue resisting thee in judgment thou shalt condemne And the Prophet there from the beginning manifestly speakes of Christs Church Thirdly Isaias Ch. 60.12 The Nation and Kingdome that will not serve thee shall perish Vnder paine of perishing the Church must be obeyed Whence Fourthly Ezech c 44. v. 23. They that is the Priests shall teach the people what is between a holy thing and a thing polluted and the difference between clēane and vncleane They shall shew them and when there shall be controversie they shall stand in judgment and shall judge according to my judgments This being their office the peoples office must needs be not to judge them but obey them 4. Whence Fiftly Christ Matt. 18.17 commands all to obey the Church vnder paine of being held here on earth as Publicās and Heathens and of haveing this sentence ratifyed in heauen Tell the Church sayth he and if he will not heare the Church let him be vnto thee as a Heathen and a Publican Amē I say vnto you whatsoever you shall bind on Earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever you shall loose vpon earth shall be loosed also in heaven Here you see obedience to be yeilded vnder paine of being held as a Publican or an Heathen and this sentence to be ratified in heaven Now if the Church could erre in theaching for example that Christ is truly present in the Sacrament and hence oblige all to adore him there in as much as they adore him in heauē and could oblige them to this vnder paine of being held as Publicans and Heathens ād held so as well in heaven as vpon earth surely this cānot be an errour
For then in heaven this sentence would never be ratified And tell me not that this texts speakes of private differēces betweene brother ād brother though I denie not but this is also true in such differences as belong to the Court or Tribunall of the Church yet hence evidently follows that this Text doth much more concerne those differences in point of Religion between brother and brother Both because these doe more properly belong to the Court of the Church and to her Tribunall as also because when scandal and offence is giuen to our brother in point of heresie tending to the seduction of his soule our brother seeing this soule-murthering sinne broached to his owne ruine ād to the eternall ruine of his brother hath farre greater reasō in this case thē in any other to tell the Church his mother to whome in this difference aboue all other differences it properly belongeth to looke to the safety of her childred For this is an offēce ād scandal to the whole brotherhood of all Christianity Therefore in these points of highest concernement we are most bound to heare the Church vnder paine of being accounted Publicans and Heathens and of haueing this heauie sentence ratified in heauen 5. Sixtly Matt. 23.1 Then Iesus spake to the multitudes and to his Disciples saying Vpon the chaire of Moyses haue sitten the Scribes and Pharises by which sitting with lawfull succession they as wicked as they were are knowne to be lawfully authorized Prelats all therefore whatsoever they shall say unto you observe and do Behold here a precept of obeying in all whatsoever And therefore behold a precept which could not be givē if that which is delivered by publicke authority of the Church were not secured from error in all whatsoever 6. Sevently The first and best Christians did practically acknowledge theyr beleefe of the infallibility of the Church For to have a decision of the most important Controversies Act. 15.2 they appointed Paul and Barnabas to go up and certaine others of the rest to the Apostles and Priests unto Hierusalem upon this question And the Church assembled the first Councill in which though this Councill were assisted with the Holy Ghost yet there was made a great disputation v. 7. And then the definition of the Church came forth in these words It seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and us v. 28. Other lawfull Councills knowing the Holy Ghost allso promised to them do vse to set forth theyr definitions with the same words and this most agreable to Scripture For Iohn 15. v. 26. When the Paraclete cometh whom I shall send from my father the spirit of truth he shall give testimonie of me and you shall give testimonie Marke this conjunction of he and you He the the spirit of truth and you Governers of my Church so that you in giveing testimony may freely say It seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and us 7. Eightly It is cleere out of Scripture that the first Christians were so fully possessed with the beleefe of the infallibility of the Church that they would beleeve nothing but what thy knew conformable to her doctrine S. Paul was a Scripture-writer and so great an Apostle and yet he sayeth of himselfe Gal. 2.1 Then after fourteene yeares I went to Hierusalem again not meerly to satisfie a vaine fancie of some particular men but I went up according to revelation and conferred with them the Ghospel which I preach among the Gentills But I conferred severally or a part with them that seemed to be something least perhaps I should runn or had runn in vain So that he thought all his fourteen yeares preaching and allso his future preaching might come to be in vaine vnlesse even his doctrine were made known to be approved by the Church as wholy conformable to the Church So much in these goulden dayes were the first Christians taught to relye vpon the Church which had been imprudence if she had been fallible Yet we must not thinke that then they did apprehend that the approbation of the Church did adde any degree of truth to his doctrine as it doth not add any degree of truth to the Scripture or pretend to have power to change or correct true Scripture And so S. Paul sayth v. 6. For to me they that seemed to be some thing added nothing For as the toutchstone adds no value to the gold but onely evidently manifesteth which is true gold which not so the Church as then did only manifest infallibly the truth of what he had preached So allso the Church as now doth only manifest to vs that such and such Bookes be the true word of God such and such be not such be true copies such not c. But the word of God hath its true worth from it selfe and not frō the Church as the gold hath its being true gold from it selfe and not from the toutchstone So when Catholiques say with S. Aug. Cont. Epist fundam c. 5. I would not beleeve the Ghospell unlesse the authoritie of the Church moved me they doe not meane that the Church can adde or take away from the truth of any true Scripture but they meane that by her definition as by a Sure touchstone it is now manifestly assured vnto them that such a booke is true Scripture and such not And as the orall preaching even of such an Apostle as had been a Scripture writer might have been in vain without this approbation so allso might his writings have been in vaine Whence we see that his Epistle vnto the Hebrews was not known or acknowledged as Gods word vntill the Church approved it If the Scripture writer himselfe teacheth in vaine without this approbation much more will his writings teach in vaine 8 Ninthly The Church is to be followed by vs as an assured approver or reprover of spirits and consequently as infallible Iohn 1.4 My dearest beleeve not every spirit but prove the spirits if they be of God then v. 6. We are of God he that knows God heares us Pastours of Church he that is not of God heares us not In this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of errour Here S. Iohn expresly meanes to give to posterity a standing Rule to know a true spirit from a false one To witt By the hearing of us or not hearing of us This could not be a Rule to vs who live after the Apostles if by hearing us he onely meant the Apostles and not theyr successours Yea he could not meane onely the Apostles For the other Apostles were all dead when he wrote this Wherefore the true sence of S. Iohn is In this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of errour if they heare us Pastours and Governours of the Church Not that each one of these Pastours and Governours a part can say to any one heare me vnlesse he teach that which all the rest are sufficiently knowne to teach but they in a Generall Councill may most truely say Heare us He
her own soule the sword of grief did peerce As Holy Simeon prophecyed of her Luk. 2.35 When I come to say the third five tenns I will spend the time in saying each of them by meditating upon and so honouring each of the five glorious Mysteries First the Resurrection of our Saviour Secondly his Ascension to heavenly glory Thirdly his sending the Holy Ghost Fourthly the Assumption of our Lady When as many Holy Fathers have taught that body of hers in which Christ took flesh was soon after its buriall not made meat of wormes but with farre greater reason made partaker of her Sons Resurrection then were those many Saints of whom S. Matth. c. 27.53 sayth theyr graves were opened and they rose And they going forth out of theyr graves after his Resurrection came into the Holy Citty and appeared to many Fiftly and lastly I will to her honour consider her Coronation importing her special state in that heavenly glory in which shee is looked upon and reverenced by all Saints and Angels as theyr Queen she being the Mother of the King of glory The Mother of my Lord. Luke 1.43 9. The intent of the Holy Church recommending this devotion is to teach all that use it especially the more ignorant who cannot use Books how to imploy theyr minds fruitfully in a most commendable Meditation of Mysteries most glorious to Christ and his Mother and most beneficiall to our soules whilst theyr lipps are most devoutly busied in reciting words so pleasing to the Mother of God to which end the Teachers of our Church both by words and by writing still are inculcating this true use of the Beades 10. Now this number of fifteen tenns or of five tenns serving so fitly for the orderly practise of so easy a devotion cannot be more easily observed then by letting one Bead fall at each Ave Mary And the beginning of the next tenne can no way be more easily notifyed then to begin the sayd tenne with a bead of so different a bignes that it may easily be noted even in the dark without any distraction And the same different Bead serves allso to mind us of passing to the consideration of a different Mystery unles perhaps our soule hath other predominant pious thoughts or affections which tending to a very beneficiall Meditation are better continued then interrupted Now though many simple people use not these considerations but attend only to the words they say yet those words be so excellent that this entertaynment proves most vertuous by theyr using the recitall of them to honour Christ and his Blessed Mother 11. Neither is the often repeating of the same prayers or prayer a thing blame worthy For if after the saying of one Ave Mary wee should use a lesse excellent prayer yea or no prayer at all you could not blame us How then grow wee to be blame worthy for using this so excellent prayer Hee who should every houre say our Lords prayer although he should do it three times each houre is not to be blamed but commended How thē is he to be blamed who sayth the Lords prayer three our fourscore times in one houre Next unto our Lords prayer no prayer hath greater authority or excellency then the Ave Mary Why then be wee blamed for using it so often in so short a space whilst as you thinck you remain without blame who use it so seldome our Saviour had the rarest invention that ever man had and if we may make bould to accoūt any of his prayers more excellent then an other his prayer in the garden may seem to have been most excellent And yet even then as rare an invention as he had He prayed the third time using the same words Matth. 26.44 And not inventing any new forme So likewise those four blessed six winged Creatures Apoc. 4.8 Had not rest day and night saying Holy Holy Holy Lord God Omnipotent The oftner they said this one prayer over and over the more fervour appeares even in so rare inventive spirits All the Publicans prayer was God be mercifull to mee a sinner Luke 18.13 and v. 38. All the prayer of the blind man was to cry again and again saying Iesus Sonne of David have mercy upon mee And when they rebuked him to hold his peace he cryed much more Sonne of David have mercy upon me And thus he by perseverance in the same prayer obtained his request Who doth not see a speciall power to stirre up a great feeling of Gods mercies in the Psalm one hundred and thirty six which containeth but twenty seaven verses and yet it doth twenty seaven times repeat those words For his mercy endureth for ever THE XL. POINT It is laudable to worship the Images of Saints 1. IT is laudable I say to worship the Saintes Images in that sense in which we Roman Catholiks worship Images The very Saintes themselves we worship not with divine honour as I sayd and largely declared Point 36. n. 3. 4. 5. And therefore it is a most unconscionable slander which our Adversaries lay upon us saying that we give divine honour to Images No we give no such honour to the Saints themselves much lesse do we give it to theyr Images without you think we worship the Images more then the person represented by the Images All that we Roman Catholiks hold as a Point of faith may be read by all men in the Councel of Trent sess 25. where this Councel teacheth due honour and veneration to be given to the Images of Christ and his Saints not that there is believed to be in them any Divinity or Vertue for which they are to be worshiped or that any thing is to be asked of them or that any confidence is to be placed in the Images as anciently was done by the Gentils who did put theyr hope in theyr Idols Psal 115.8 But because the honour which is given to the Images is referred to the persons represented by the Images so that by or through the Images which we kisse and before which we uncover our head or ly prostrate we adore Christ and reverence the Saints whom these Images represent Behold the belief of our Church teaching that all the reverence done before Images I pray note well this manner of speach All the honour I say that is shewed before the picture resteth not in the Image but passeth through it and resteth in the person represented to me by this picture He that abuses King Charles his picture or statue neither intendeth to shew nor sheweth any anger or disrespect to Paper or to stock or stone All the abuse by all mens Iudgment is given to King Charles represented by his picture in paper or engraven in wood or stone A further and an evident proof of all this is that your selves on the one side believe the Sacrament to be only a signe or figure of Christs body and yet on the other side you count it no Idolatrie to kneel before this Sacrament at the
to be yet at least according to our Adversaries they conteyne a faithfull Ecclesiasticall History in which in the place cited it is recorded That they keept the Dedication of theyr Altar eight dayes Moreover v. 59. Iudas then high Priest and his brethren with the whole congregation of Israël ordeyned that the dayes of the Dedication of the Altar should be keept in theyr season from year to year by the space of eight dayes from the five and twentith of the Month Casleu that is November This Feast was keept by the Iewish Church untill our Saviours time and that with out warrant of Scripture Yea our Saviour himself observed it For so wee read Io. 10.22 And the feast of the Dedication was in Ierusalem and it was winter I know the feast of the Dedication of the Temple restored 1. Esd 6. Was in February and therefore in winter But this beeing the winter before his death it could not be in that part of the winter which was spent as farre as February because our Saviour is there by S. Iohn and by the other Evangelists sayd to have done more then could be done between February and 25. of March upon which he suffered death So that Beza himself in his Annotations upon this place of S. Iohn confesseth this feast wich our Saviour keept to have been the feast wee speak of A great proof allso of using prayer for the dead For had the Institutor of this feast who in that book is recorded to have used prayer for the dead had he I say been superstitiously given Christ would never have keept a feast of his Institution Note here allso the warrant for feasts of Dedications so usuall in our Church yet so unheard of among Protestants THE XLIV POINT That wee laudably observe Fasts Saints Eves and other dayes 1. OVt of the former Point wee make this strong argument The Church hath power to oblige her subjects to keep such and such Feasts as hath been proved therefore she hath the power to oblige her subjects to keep such and such fasting dayes for the Scriptures speak universally of this obedience requiring of us carefully to hear the Church Matth. 18.17 and saying he that heareth you heareth me He that despiseth you despiseth me Luke 10. v. 16. As allso obey them that have the Rule over you for they watch for your soules Hebr. 13.17 Yea though Scribes and Pharisees should by lawfull succession sit upon the chayre of Moyses Christ himself will bid us Therefore to do all whatsoever they command All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe that observe and do Matth. 23. v. 2. And if you say that wee must obey only when they bring cleer Scripture you are refuted by the former point where you see so many feasts commanded with out cleer Scripture which did no where appoint those feasts she then may command fastes not commanded by Scripture 2. And now I will shew you fasts to have been commanded by the Church upon a day not appointed in Scripture but only by the appointment of the High Priest or Church So Iosaphat proclaimed a fast to all Iuda 2. Chron. 20.3 So Ioel 1.14 exhortes the Church to command an extraordinary fast sanctify ye a fast Allso upon a day not commanded by Scripture Esdras the High Priest commanded a fast And I proclaimed a fast that wee might be afflicted before Lord our God 1. Esd 8.21 And we fasted and besought our God for this and he was entreated of us v. 23. And Ester 4.16 To gather together all the Iewes and fast ye for mee and neither eat nor drink three dayes night or day And it was done according as it was commanded And Hest 9.27 The Iewes ordeyned and took upon them and upon theyr seed so as it should not fail that they would keep these two dayes of feast every yeare And v. 31. They decreed for theyr selves and for theyr seed the fastings and theyr cry For fasting and crying to our Lord were fitly then appointed to be observed in the Vigil or Eave of this feast as we usually fast in the Vigils of our feasts for devout fasting best disposeth our mind to devotion the next day Moreover you Protestants teach there be no Counsels given us by God but only precepts If this be so God himself commands you to fast when he sayeth Ioel 2 12. Turn ye to me with all your hearts ād with fasting ād weeping ād mourning 3. Wee fast on Ember dayes because those dayes be deputed by the Church to ordaine and Consecrate new Priests and other Ministers of the Church And it is Christs command Matth. 9.38 Pray the Lord of the Harvest that he send forth workmen into his harvest To obey this command the more perfectly and to make our Prayer powred forth for so important a blessing the more effectuall the Church with this prayer ioyneth three dayes fast So of the most primitive Church wee read Acts 13.3 When they had fasted and prayed and layd theyr hands on them they sent them away to witt Barnabas and Saul se they beeing sent by the Holy Ghost departed And Chap. 14.23 When they had ordeyned thē Elders Priestes in every Church and prayed with fastings they commended them to the Lord. 4. Moreover by our fastings in each one of the four seasons of the year we consecrate those seasons and our life 's to God and more effectually petition for his blessings in and at all seasons We fast on Frydayes because our Saviour dyed upon a Fryday And because he remained dead all Saturday wee abstaine from flesh upon Saturdayes Christ sayed expressely Matth. 9.14 That after the bridegrome should be taken from his Disciples as he was at his Passion then they should allso fast as much as the disciples of S. Iohn and the Pharisees did And there the Seripture sayth they fasted often And you know the proud Pharisee braggs that he fasted twice a week No wonder then that the Church thought this measure at least expedient for us Shee allso knew by Scripture that it was expedient to keep under our Body and bring it into subjection 1. Cor. 9.27 And to approve our selves in watchings and fastings 2. Cor. 6.5 And to give our selves to fasting 1. Cor. 7.5 For this reason it was that S. Iohn the greatest of Prophets taught his disciples to fast often Matth. 9.14 Our new Prophets teach theyr disciples to scoff at fasters often Moreover wee who sinne dayly have but to much need to fast weekly so to satisfy for our sins to which effect how much fasting availeth I declared P. 24. n. 6. Now there beeing so great good in fasting and all Gods greatest Saints having practised it so much upon this account as I shewed out of Scripture Point 23. it is a wonder that among our ungodly Saints even good Friday it self on which we receaved a greater benefitt then ever man kind received should have no more notice commanded to be taken thereof then if Christ his