peradueÌ„ture the deuyll to yf he enteÌ„ded otherwyse But surely there was entended toward hym somwhat more good then his dealynge had byfore deserued And so mych the more fauour was there mynded hym in that he semed very penytent of his mysse vsynge of hym selfe in fallynge to Tyndales heresyes agayne For whyche he knowleged hym selfe worthy to be hanged that he hadde so falsely abused the kynges graciouse remissyon and pardon geueÌ„ hym byfore and hadde for all that in the whyle both bought and solde of those heretycall bokes and secretely set forth those heresyes wherof he shewed hym selfe so repentaunt that he vttered and dysclosed dyuers of hys companyoÌ„s of whom there are some abiured synnys and that he wyste well were abiured before namely Rycharde Necton whyche was by Constantynes deteccyon take and commytted to Newgate where except he happe to dye byfore in pryson he staÌ„deth in grete paryll to be ere it be longe for hys fallynge agayne to Tindales heresyes burned And thus it semed by the maner of George Constantyne whyle he was here in pryson that he so sore dyd forthynke hys errours and heresyes and so perceyued the pestylent poyson of them that he thoughte it better that such as were infecte therwyth myghte be by the meane of hys deteccyon amended and wyth the losse of hys body the soule cured then bothe twayne caste awaye or yf the man were peraduenture of hard herte and malycyouse mynde incurable he thought it were then better to sende hym to the deuyll alone then let hym lyue and drawe many other wyth hym Thys good mynde it semeth that Constantyne had then and therfore was there good hope of hys amendemeÌ„t And peraduenture the man hadde amended and standen styll in grace yf some euyll coÌ„sayle â—ad not comen at hym of which there was lefte vnsought no deuelyshe inuencyon or meane to sende hym in so mych that one of the letters I fortuned to intercepte my selfe wryten vnto hym by one IohnÌ„ Byrte otherwyse callynge hym selfe Adryane otherwyse IohnÌ„ bokebynder yet otherwyse now I can not tell you what Of trouth George constantyne after he hadde confessed vnto a faythfull seruaunt of myne to be declared to me that Necton had of his deliuery many of those heretycall bokes he sent worde forthwyth to Necâ—on that he sholde sende the bokes home to meâ— whyche yf he dyd that I myghte haue yet seen sure tokens of amendement in the man Constantyne perceyued well that he had ben yet lykely to haue had fauour shewed hym But when that Necton had ones made Byrte of hys counsayle they dyuysed bytwene them that Necton sholde not do so in no wyse affermynge to Constantyne that it coude not be done and happely it coude not in dede for peraduenture they were all solde all redy How be it Necton now syth he was taken sayed that hys wyfe had burned them But it is well knowen that Necton had hym selfe and a man of hys also solde many such bokes of heresye bothe in London in othey shyres syth his abiuracyon But how so euer the mater was Byrte by hys letter aduysed Constantyne yf he myghte possyble to call bakke hys coÌ„fessyon agayne wherin I thynke it good that ye here hys very letter it selfe Lo in these wordes he wrote The grace and peace of our sauyour Iesus be with you good brother CoÌ„stantyne Syr as for the mater that ye wold haue brought to passe will not be in no maner wyse the person is not at home that shold receyue the stuffe and delyuer it accordynge to vnto your mynde Therfore yf ye haue not spoken so farre in the mater that it maye be none preiudyall or hurte vnto you I wolde ye shold go no ferther in the mater but euyn as a man armed wyth fayth go forth in your mater boldely and put them to theyr proues As for one is none you knowe well by the law of god or man If there be any thynge that I can do sende word and ye shall fynde me redy to my power euen to dethe by goddes grace who I praye longe to preserue you and comforte you in your trouble to the confusyon of all tyrauntes Lo here haue ye herde an apostolycall pystle counsaylynge the man to go bakke wyth the trouth and arme hym selfe wyth fayth and make hym stronge to lye lowde and forswere hym selfe yf nede were for Byrt wyste well I were not lykely to leue and byleue hym at hys bare worde Here wyll Byrt peraduenture preche and brynge vs in the mydwyues of Egypt that saued the chyldren of Israell from Pharao for whych god gaue theÌ„ new howses wherin Byrt and I wyll not myche dyspute For all be it that god hath gyuen hym no howse â—et nor it is not all one wyth a lye to saue a yonge innocent babe and wyth periurye to defende an olde pestyleÌ„t heretyke and though saynt Austayn sayth that it is not lawfull to lye for nothyng yet I tell not my tale to lay a lye so hyghly to any suche mennes charge as these folke be whose hole secte is nothyng els but lyes but I reherse you his letter bycause ye shold se what trewth there is in suche folkes wordes How be it as for Constantyne as I sayed before semed in pryson here very penyteÌ„t and vtterly mynded to forsake suche heresyes and heretykes for euer In profe wherof he not onely detected as I sayd hys owne dedes his felowes but also studyed and deuysed how those deuelysshe bokes whyche hym selfe and other of hys felowes hadde brought and shypped myghte come to the bysâ—hoppes handes to be burned And therfore he shewed me the shypmannes name that had them and the markes of the ferdellys by whych I haue synnys hys escape receyued them And it maye be by goddes grace that though the man fledde hense for fere of suche harme as he wyste he hadde well deserued yet was nothynge towarde hym but peraduenture more good then he was ware of he is yet amended in hys mynde and hath in his harte forsaken all Tyndales heresyes and so I pray god it be for I wold be sory that euer Tyndale sholde glory and boste of hys burnynge How be it in the meane whyle tyll it maye well appere that he be surely turned to the catholyke fayth agayne I wyll aduyse all good crysten folke and specyally the kynges subiectes to forbere and estyew hys company For the englysshe man whyche shall be fouÌ„den to be famylyare wyth hym there byfore hys conuersyoÌ„ here knowen and proued maye therby brynge hym selfe in suspycyon of heresye and happely here therof at hys retournynge hyther I here also that Tyndale hyghly reioyceth in the burnyng of Tewkesbery but I can se no very grete cause why but yf he reken it for a grete glory that the man dyd abyde styll by the stake when he was faste bounden to it For as for the heresyes he wolde haue abiured them agayne wyth all hys harte
chyrch vsed in theyr langage presbyteros But as for this word eldeâ— which Tindale sayth is the old latyne translacyoÌ„ he were lyke to pore out his eyen vppâ—â— latyne boke ere he fynde yâ— englyshe word elder thâ—â—◠〈…〉 he cause yt to be wryten in hym selfe And yet he layeth lyke textes .iii. or foure some in the pystles of saynt IohnÌ„ some in the Actes where he fyndeth in stede of presbyteros this word seniores and natu maiores and alwaye he setteth thereto lo here is presbyteros called an elder and an elder in byrth as though this latine word seniores or natu maiores were this englysh word elder where he sayth that presbyteros is called elder in the olde traÌ„slacyon whych as ye se muste nedes be false but yf this englyshe worde be in that latine boke and that he make englyshe latine and latine englyshe But now leste he call the redargucyon of his foly sophystycacyon lette vs diuine for hym what he myght meane He wyll happely say that he meaneth that this greke word prâ—sâ—yteros is in the texte that he hath alleged called by the olde translatour seniores and seniores sygnyfyeth elder or elders And so though this worde elder be not in the latine traÌ„slacyon yet syth that latine worde is there that sygnyfyeth in laten the same thynge that this worde elder sygnyfyeth in englyshe we can not blame hym for translatynge presbyteros in to thys worde elder but yf we blame in lyke wyse the translatour for translatynge presbyteros in to this worde seniores Fyrste yf I sayed that the olde translacyon were in that poynt not so well as yt myght haue ben I sholde not saye so alone And Erasmê° whom Tyndale calleth my derlyng and whom hym selfe doth for all that in his own traÌ„sâ—acyon preferre byfore the olde doth as well in the sayed pystle of saynt Peter as in the sayd .xx. chapiter of thapostles Actes not onely kepe styll the greke worde presbyteros but sheweth also that the old translatour translated it not well bycause he translated there thys worde presbyteros into thys worde sâ—niores and in the tother place into maiores natu but sayth that he shold rather haue kepte styll the worde presbyteros vnchaunged bycause that worde is yt that sygnyfyeth authoryte wyth the grekes where senioreâ— in latine sygnyfyeth but theyr age and all were not olde as appered by Timothe And for that cause in the sayed place of saynte Peter his pystle saynt Hierome amendeth that olde translacyon and kepeth presbyteros styll recitynge saynte Peter in this wyse Presbyteros qui sunt â—n vobis obsecro ego compresbyter wherein saynt Hierome was rather contâ—â—â— to ioyne the latine coÌ„iunccyon with the greke word and â—all yâ— compresbyter then to chaunge that worde sygnyfyenge the 〈◊〉 in to seniâ—res and consenâ—or sygnifyeng but the age For amonge the latines senior sygnyfyed none other but amonge the grekes presbyteri was the name that many tymes sygnyfyed rulers and gouernours Now yf we lyste we may yet excuse the olde translatour whych how sone after Crystes deth he translated it who can tell And then when the latine chyrche had no laten worde for the crysten prestes all redy receyued vsed what blame was he worthy that toke that worde not contynually but amonge whyche of all the latine wordes semed to hym to go nexte the sygnifycacyon of presbyteros at that tyme. And that was as hym thought seniores in whych word yet the chyrch neuer folowed hym though but though they redde his traÌ„slacion openly in diuine seruyce yet neyther in theyr wrytynge nor preachynge wold they take vp that worde and call a preest seniour as appereth by the bokes and sermons of all holy doctours synnys And therfore Tyndale is wythoute excuse whyche hath translated presbyteros by this englyshe worde elders a worde vnknowen amonge englyshe men to sygnyfye prestes and amonge whom this word preste was the proper englesh word well knowen and had serued in that sygnifycacyon so many hundred yere afore Tyndale was borne Also go me to the place whych Tyndale alledgeth in the fyrste pystle of saynt Petre Seniores qui sunt in vobis obsecro ego consenior pascite qui in vobis est grezem Christi whych place I take for ensample For where he layeth two places of the pystles of saynt IohnÌ„ and one in the .xx. of the Actes all be for one purpose and this one place answerd answereth them all I saye therfore that Tyndale hath euen here in this his newe boke translated that same place wronge and all the remanaunt in lyke wyse And that wyll I proue partely by Tyndales owne wordes whych in this boke folowe the translacyon of those wordes The elders that are amonge you I beche whych am an elder also that ye â—ede the flocke of Cryste whych is amonge you There is presbyteros calleâ— an elder And in that he sayth fede Cristes flocke he meaneth euen the ministers that were chosen to teache the people and to enforme them in goddâ—â— worde and â—â— saye persones More Lo Tyndale here shewed hym selfe that by this worde seâ—niores be there vnderstanden the minysters that were châ—â—â— to teache peple Then say I that yf this word seniores 〈◊〉 in that sygnyfycacyon there Tyndale sholde not translate yt in to this englysh worde elder whych sygnifyeth not the offyce but the age here And this is I say trew all were it so that Tyndales false heresy were trew that holy orders were no sacrament at all but a bare offyce For yf yt were but in a prophane comen storye in whych men maye boldely be in the translacyon at myche more lybertye then in holy scrypture yet were he a noughtye transâ—atour that wolde translate a thynge in to suche a worde as in the tonge in to whyche he translateth is not vnderstanden in that sygnyfycacyon As yf percase a man wolde translate a latine cronycle in to englyshe in whyche were mencyon made of some thynge done in London yf he founde in that cronycle the aldermen called by the name of senatores or peradueÌ„ture seniores he shold yet in his englyshe translacyon call them not senatours nor elders neyther syth neyther of those two wordes is in englyshe the name by whych the aldermen of London be knowen but he muste therfore translate senatores and seniores also in to aldermen in his englyshe translacyon And ferther yf he there founde this worde senatus Londinensis he shold not traÌ„site yt in to this worde senate but eyther into mayre and aldernâ—en or percase yf the circuÌ„staunce of the mater so lede hym to yt in to mayre aldermen and comen counsayle And therfore as ye playnely se Tyndales defence of his translatynge presbyteros in to elders is as feble to stykke to as is an olde roten elder stykke though yt were but in a prophane storye Now where yt is in the holy storye of Crystes gospell what manner a thyng is it
of And therfore as I haue sayde those wordes of Crystes were properly ment of the tradycyons commaundemeÌ„tes of the scrybes pharasees them selfe bysyde the law whych thinges our sauiour there coÌ„maâ—Ì„ded to be kept obserued where so euer they were not superstycyouse nor contraryed not the lawes and commaundementes of god but were tendynge to his honour or to vertue or to the comen wealeâ— for the place and offyce that the scrybes and pharysees kepte though them selfe were nought And theyr good tradycyoÌ„s dyd neuer Cryste dysprayse though he somtyme dyspensed wyth his dyscyples concernynge them and the law to Now there is no man I thynke so maddeâ— when he dowteth not but the seruauntes in a mannys housholde are so bounden to fulfyll and obaye theyr maysters lyefull commaundementes that yf they wolde refuse at hys byddynge to knele downe and say certayne praoyurs with hym to bed warde all the whole house to gether tyll he shold shew them some such commaundement in scrypture they were well worthy to go to the deuyll for theyr proude dysobedyence in the defence of theyr false euangelycall fredome he that douteth not I saye of thys of whyche I thynke no good man douteth can not be so madde to thynke that neyther bysshoppe nor pope nor whole generall counsayle nor all crysten people to gether though they were all assembled vppon a playne were able so to commaunde so myche as a generall processyon vppon any certayne daye but that any lewde lyther losell that lyste not to ryse may lye styll in hys bedde say he is not bounden to obay mannys tradycyoÌ„s nor nothyng but scrypture except for auoydyng of slauÌ„der and then there shal be so many at the processyon that he shall not be myssed yf he be some man may say he is syke Uppon these wordes coÌ„cernynge theyr tradycyons wold I not haue ben so long sauyng that both frere Barns rially triumpheth wyth them agaynste the lawes of the chyrch and also that Tyndale in his answere to the .xviii. chapyter of my dyaloge bryngeth in the same for the lyke entent which entent how properly they proue bytwene them both now ye may partely se and yet farther shall by goddes grace when I shall hereafter god wyllynge come to touche the place in Tyndales answere to me But now that I haue proued that those wordes of Crist make not onely nothynge for they purpose agaynst the lawes of Crystes chirche but also make playnely for the lawes agaynste theyr purpose I shall not nede longe to tary you for the tother poynte that is to wytte to proue you that those wordes of Cryste nothynge make agaynste our pryncypall purpose For they nothynge proue that euery necessary thynge is wryten though we constre Crystes wordes not of the tradycyons of whyche they be properly spoken in dâ—de but of the law of Moyses and set therunto the wordes of saynte Austayne also wyth whyche Barns wolde seme so well to furnyshe his mater For fyrst as for Crystes wordes yf they hadde ben playne expressely these what so euer the scrybis and pharysees bydde you do that is wryten in the law of Moyces I warne you se that you do yt yet whyle he sayde not farther I warne you byleue them not in any thyng ellys these wordes were no profe that all to gether was writen wher in the peple shold byleue them no more theÌ„ that all thyng wher in they sholde byleue them was wryten in Moyses bokes whyche yf yt were taken so then were all that they myghte teache the people writen in Esaieâ— Hieremie or Ezechiel by Cristes worde wyped oute of credens Therfore by those wordes expownynge them of the doctryne of Moyses and not of the tradycyons of the scrybes and pharysees yet is there nothynge proued that they were not to be byleued in any thynge that they sholde teache bysyde Moyses nor bysyde all the scrypture neyther Nor those wordes of Cryste be not contrary but that there myghte be yet at those dayes trewthes kepte amonge the people by tradycyon from the begynnynge whyche the scrybes and pharysees bothe myght preache and remember to the people as they myght the scrypture and be therin byleued And therfore our sauyour sayd not byleue theÌ„ in nothing but the bokes of Moyses or other bokes of scrypture but he sayd do not as they do not forbediÌ„ge theÌ„ to byleue theÌ„ in many other thynges but forbedyng them to folow them in theyr vyces Now if Cryste had sayd farther to the iewes all thynges necessarye be wryten therfore byleue the scrybes pharysees no farther then ye fynde wryten in Moyses and in the prophetes had thys proued that all thynge that crysteÌ„ meâ— muste byleue is wryten in the apostles and the euaÌ„gelistesâ— Now the wordes of saynt Austayne whyche frere Barons addeth therunto do for this purpose nothyng auaunce the mater For when saynte Austayne applyeth those wordes of Cryste to a preacher that is not a very trew shepeherde so kyng onely the weale of the flokke and the pleasure of Criste but mercennary and an hyred man that preacheth for lucâ—â— or other wordely affeccyons of hys owne and then sayeth that in the chayre of Moyses is vnderstande the lernynge of the law of god and sayth that therfore god dothe teache vs by them that is to wytte by those merceÌ„nary preachers to and therfore when they teache the law of god here them and do thereafter but and if they wyll teache theyr owne doctrine here yt not do yt not for suche men seke that is theyres and not Crystes that is to wyt theyr owne commodyte and not the pleasure of god lo sayth Barns these wordes of saynte Austayne be playne agaynst all them that preche any thyng but the law of god onely And forthwyth well and wyseâ—y in stede of prechyng he putteth ensample of statutes makyng as though yt were both one thynge one man to preche and all the chirche to make a statute And bycause ye shold se yet hys playnesse and synceryte therin he fayneth that the chirch maketh some openly and directly agaynst the worde of god and to the destruccyon of the fayth as is that statute sayth he whereby they haue condemned the new testament and also forbeden certayne men to preache the worde of god hauynge no cause agaynste them but all onely theyr owne malycyouse suspycyon Now of trouth there is no such statute madeâ— nor no such thynge done neyther concernynge the tone poynte nor the tother For as for the new testament yf he meane the testament of Cryste yt is not condemned nor forboden neyther no more then was the holy arche though euery man myght not be so bolde to touche yt But of trouth there is a false englyshe translacyon of the newe testament newly forged by Tyndale so altered chaunged in maters of great weyght malycyousely to sette forth agaynste Crystes trew doctryne Tyndales antichrysten heresyes that yt was not worthy to be called Crystes testament
but eyther Tyndales owne testament or the testament of hys mayster Antechryste And therfore that boke is coÌ„demned as it is well worthy and the condemnacyon therof is neyther openly nor pryuyly directely nor indirectely agaynst the worde of god nor tendeth not to the destruccion of the fayth but very coÌ„sonaunt wyth the worde of god auferte masum ex vobismet ipsis and greatly tendyng to the mayntenaunce of the fayth And concernynge that testament I haue both in my dialoge and in the secuÌ„de boke of thys wurke well proued this poynte wherunto when Tyndale weneth to fynde any farther defence let hym lay yt forth There is also no statute made by the chirch to forbyd any man to preache the worde of god hauyng no cause agaynst hym but theyr owne malycyouse suspycyon Nor god I dowte not wyll neuer suffer hys chyrche to fall so madde as to make suche a law If frere Barns fynde any law made of suche materâ— let hym reherse it and I waraunt you he shall fynde no suche wordes in it There is in dede a law made bothe by the chyrche and in thys realme by the parlyament to that no man shall be suffred to preache in any dyocyse agaynste the bysshoppes wyll And I wene that law be not agaynst goddes law nor agaynste reason neyther excepte eyther goddys lawe or good reason sholde suffer that one man sholde medle wyth another mannes charge magry his teeth to whom the charge bylongeth or ellys shold be suffred to sow shrewd seed of heresyes scysmes sedycyoÌ„s among the people fyrstâ— then be burned vp after at leysour Such folke I suppose were better prohybyted bytymes ere they be suffred longe to go forwarde to the parell of other mennes soules theyr owne to Such haue we had some prohybited here of late of whyche one was yet so sore set vppon euyll prechyng that after the prohybycyon abiuracyoÌ„ to yet wold he preche heresyes styll vntyll at the last god caused hym to be taken Tindals bokes with hym to both two burned togyder wyth more profyte vnto his soule theÌ„ had ben happely to haue lyued lenger after dyed in his bedde For in what mynde he sholde then haue dyed our lorde knoweth where as now we know well he dyed a good crysten man And when he wyste well his reuocacyon coude not saue his body yet reuoked he his heresyes and abhorred Tyndals bokes for to saue hys soule Now here serue well the wordes of saynte Austayne agaynst Barns whyche wordes Barns bryngeth for hym For when we here such a merceÌ„nary precher as these heretykes be for the tyme that we here them yf they say aught well and accordynge to the catholyke fayth as they can not for shame saye all nought at ones then take it But when we here them preache theyr owne heresyes for the rewarde of worldely prayse or delyte of theyr owne syngulare pryde and so seke theyr owne and not Crystes then here them not but putte them to sylence and prohybyte them to preache any more Thys allegorye wyll agre wyth the sayd wordes of saynt Austayne of Crystes wordes to And yet so mych the better in that these heretyques maye properly be called not onely mercennaryes of whom saynt Austayne speketh but also very scrybes and pharisees of wurse kynde then were those of whom Criste in that gospel speketh For these be false scribes that is to wytte wryters not wrytyng any trew bokes of scrypture but false gloses and contrary commentes vppon scrypture and erronyouse bokes of dyuelyshe heresyes dyuysed of they re owne frantyque braynes to the coloure wherof they abuse the scrypture and when they lyste they also denye the scrypture These be also the worst kynde of pharysees For these haue dyuyded them selfe not from the other people by any professyon of a more honest more vertuous lyuynge but haue dyuyded them selfe from the catholyque chirche of Cryste by abomynable heresyes and from all honeste people by the coÌ„tempte of all good wurkes and by the bestely professyon of freres nonnes lyuyng to gether in lechery preachyng theyr horedome foâ— honeste matrymony These be the thynges whyche we sholde not vouchsaufe to here these scrybes and theâ—e false pharysees preache For these be the deuyls deuyces and theyr owne For as for all that is preached consonaunte to the catholyque fayth ys very goddes law whyther yt be wryteÌ„ or not Nor saynt Austayn sayth not Here them in preachynge onely the scripture but goddes law he sayth wherein is comphended all that euer we be bouÌ„den to do or byleue wherof saynt Austayn doth hym selfe confesse that dyuerse thynges are vnwryten as for ensample the perpetuall virgynyte of our blessed ladye whyche who so byleueth not bycause yt is not wryten saynt Austayne calleth a falsâ— heretyque in hys boke wryten vnto Quod vult deus And so doth saynte Hierome to in hys boke agaynste Eluidius And all such thynges be therfore partes of the plantes whyche the father of heuen planteth by hym selfe hys apostles his holy spiryte and his owne sonne abydynge in hys chirche whyther they be wryten or not And thus ye se good reders that neyther those wordes of Cryste nor of saynt Austayne neyther do proue that the apostles haue lefte all necessarye thynges in wrytynge And therfore though Barns was so fonde to brynge in that text for this purpose yet Tyndale perceyued well that yt wold not serue and therfore lefte yt out yet layeth frere Barns a nother texte for thys purpose the wordes of saynt Poule wryten vnto Timothe the .iii. chapyter of the .ii. pystle where saynte Poule wryteth vnto hym in thys wyse Abyde thou in those thynges that thou hast lerned and that are betaken to the knowynge of whoÌ„ thou haste lerned them and that from thyn infancye thou haste knowen holy scrypture whyche maye instructe the to helth by the fayth that is in Cryste Iesu. All scrypture inspyred of god is profytable to teche to reproue to correcte to teache men in iustyce that the man of god maye be perfayte instructed to euery good worke I haue rehersed you saynt Poules wordes more full theÌ„ doth frere Barns bycause ye maye haue some gesse why he lefte the remanauÌ„t out For he reherseth no more but that the chyrche muste neyther make law nor statute nor nothynge do but onely preache and mynyster the worde of god and that nothynge addynge nor mynysshynge but as Poule sayth to Timothe abyde in those thynges that they haue lerned and that be commytted vnto them Now se ye well that saynte Poule speketh nothynge to Timothe agaynst addynge oâ— any good order or statute in hys chyrche but byddeth hym abyde faste by those thynges that he hath lerned of hym and that he hath lerned in scrypture ioynynge to the scrypture alwaye the ryght fayth of Cryste whyche he had lerned of saynt Poule And therfore agaynste makynge of any law thys texte serueth frere Barons a strawe
auter to whyche yet to saye the trouth neuer tradycyon neded For syth the scrypture ys playne that yt is Crystes owne precyâ—use bodye whyche ys not dede but quykke wyth that blessed soâ—le and wyth them the godhed vnseparably ioyned what frantyque fole coulde doute but yt sholde be wyth dyuyne honour wurshypped though neyther god nor man bysyde that knowledge hadde geuen vs warnynge therof But yet is Tyndale so farre bysyde hym selfe that he byleueth not the scrypture of god nor the word spoken by goddes owne mouth when he sayde that yt is hys owne body and is so blasphemouse agaynst god that he calleth it great synne to do to that blessed bodye of Cryste in the sacrament any honour at all bycause yt ys not commaunded he sayth in scrypture But thus may ye good crysten readers se to what poynt at laste thys heresye bryngeth these folke For when they fyrste fall to that poynt that they regarde not goddes word but yf he geue yt them in wrytyngeâ— wythin a whyle after fall they downe so farre that they neyther regarde hys worde nor his wrytynge nor yet hym selfe neyther But nowe is yt a worlde to se what shyfte these folke be fayne to seke Sometyme they come forth shamlesse and boldely tell on they re tale And yet when they perceyue in the myddes thereof that all that here theym wonder on them then they caste on theyr hodes and keuer theyr faces for shame For somtyme they say they care but for scrypture alone and set nought by all those that euer wrote synnys the apostles dayes Then se they agayn that to abyde by that word were to shamelesse and then they restrayne it vnto this .viii. hundred yeres laste paste in whyche they saye all is corrupted And then they grauÌ„te that before there were good men that taught the trewth and then they saye that we wyll not byleue them as though them selfe wolde And when we aske them then whyche of those olde men before .viii. C. yere last past euer sayed that relygyous men myght runne out and wedde nonnes to that they say nothynge but fare as though they herd it not But when that my lorde of Rochester in the selfe same mater that we haue now in hande to proue that dyuers thynges whyche the chyrch vseth and byleueth and whych were neuer made by any law wryten and yet obserued thorow yâ— catholyke chyrche were of suche antyquyte that euery man myghte well perceyue that they came from yâ— very apostles them selfe hâ— layed forth the greate clerke olde auncyent father Origene wherwyth as I haue shewed you before Tyndale was very angry and all to rated Origen called hym starke heretyke But yet shall not Tyndale so fere me there wythall but that to th entent that he shall not blynde you and make you wene that all the olde fathers were in thys mater of hys mynde but that ye shall well se that the thynges whyche he reproueth and wolde haue you wene were nought worth bycause he sayth they be not in scrypture be not thynges deuysed as Tyndale sayth by popys and popysh wythin thys viii C. yere I shall as I promysed byfore in yâ— second boke reherse you bothe the wordes of Origene and besyde some vndowted holy meÌ„ synnes I shall reherse you dyuers other above .viii. C. yere and aboue .xi. C. yere and aboue a thousande to of whom my lorde of Rochester hath gathered dyuerse togyther and rehersed in the same mater in hys boke agaynst Luther all whyche saue Origene onely Tyndale dyssembleth bycause he may not call them herâ—tykes as he called Origene for whom I haue in that poynt answered Tyndale in my sayd seconde boke before Origene in the fyfte homely vppon the boke of Numeri wryteth in thys wyse In the obseruaunces of the chyrche some thynges there are whyche muste of necessyte be obserued and kept and yeâ— the cause why appereth not to euery man As for ensample that we knele when we pray that of all partes of the heuen we moste specyally tourne vs towarde the este I suppose that no man lyghtely knoweth yâ— cause why Moreouer of the sacrament of th aulter eyther the maner in the receyuyng or the guyse and fashyon of the coÌ„secracyon or of the formale wordes and ceremonyes vsed in baptysme and of the questyons and answeres vsed in the same who may well open and declare the reason And yet all these thynges though they be coueryd and hyd we bere vppon our shoulders what tyme we in such wyse accoÌ„plysh and fulfyll them as we haue receyued them of the great byshoppe Cryste and hys chyldren delyuered and commended vnto vs. Damascene in the fourth boke in the .xiii. chapyter of yâ— prayeng towarde the oryente wryteth thus This tradicyon of the apostles is not wryten for many thynges are delyuered vnto vs wythout wrytynge And farther in the .xvii. chapyter where it is wryten of yâ—â—urshyppynge of the ymages of sayntes he sayeth that many thynges the holy apostles haue delyuered vnto vs wythout wrytynge Saynt Poule the apostle of the gentyles wryteth in this wyse Stande faste and obserue our tradycyons whyche ye be taught be yt by our worde or by wrytynge And vnto the Corynthyes thus I commende ye my brethern by cause in euery thyng ye haue remembred me and kepte the tradycyons as I delyuered ye them Dyonise the fyrste chapyter of Ecclesiasticae hierarchiae of the leders and maysters of the crysten fayth sayth that they delyuered vs many thynges to be kepte partely by wrytynge and partely by theyr instytucyons vnwryten Saynte Cypriane in his sermon of the wasshynge of the fete The hygh preste hym selfe is the ordayner and author of his owne sacrament In all the resydew men were taught by the holy goste And lykewyse as in Criste and in the holy goste is lyke and egall godhed so is there in theyr instytucyons and ordynaunces lyke power and egall authoryte And no lesse is yt ratyfyed of god the thyng that thapostles by the inspyracyon of the holy goste dyd instytute then the thynge that hym selfe hath ordeyned and hath in remembraunce of hym selfe wylled and commaunded to be done Eche of them hath theyr owne proper dygnyte and eche of them hath in theyr owne kynde egall authoryte Nothynge maye there eyther be addyd or wythdrawne nothynge neyther reformed nor chaunged Saynte Hyllary in the syxte boke of the Trynyte when he had made mencyon of the apostles wryteth in this wyse Of these apostles am I taught these thynges yâ— I obserue In them am I so seasoned that the taste can neuer be goten oute Theophilactus vppoÌ„ these wordes of saynt Poule My brethern stande faste and kepe the tradycyons that ye haue lerned be yt by my worde or by my letters of this trewly yt is euydâ—nt that saynt Poule delyuered vnto theÌ„ many thynges to be kepte wythout wrytynge and by worde of mouth onely that ys to saye wyth lyuely voyce not by letters all onely
But Tyndale wold now that we shold for the whyle forget all that he and his mayster wryteth ellys where and hym selfe in many placys after in this same boke and that we sholde onely marke these holy louyng wordes that he wryteth here in his present prologe in whych he sayth that they whych be spirytuall do neuer smyte theyr yonger brothereÌ„ that ys to saye suche as be not in fayth and vertue growen vp as they be nor wyll not wyth them come forwarde therin but be euyll and wyll be no better but the spyritualles as theyr elder brothereÌ„ doth flater them and promyse fayre and gyue them gay thynges and so draweth them forward in grace and fynally yf that wyll not helpe them then the spirytuall elder brother referreth theyr punyshement to the father and the mother that is as he meaneth to all myghty god for yf he ment vnto theyr rulers so yt is all redy for none other hath authoryte to correcte and punysse And hys mynde he hath declared in that byhalfe in sundry placys that non man shold in any wyse pursue and punysh any maÌ„ specyally for any heresye for he that pursueth any man is no spyrytuall man I let passe here that after this waye the worlde all be yt that yt be badde ynough all redye wold yet wax then mich worse and I passe ouer also that as well all wyse men as all good men and holy scripture also yt selfe is open and playne to the contrarye And I wyll for the whyle no more but aske of Tyndale whether he accompte the pope the clergy and the temporall prynces for menne borne agayne and renewed with the spyryte of god and therby spyrytuall or not If he reken them for suche theÌ„ by hys owne rule they can and do very well iudge all thynge and so sholde he then thynke that the thynges that they do be well done for he sayth hym selfe that the spirytualles do serche the botome of goddes commaundementes and fulfyll them gladly Now yf he say that they be not the spyrytualles but such as Luther is and frere Huskyn and hym selfe suche other as so serche the causes that they care not as Tyndale sayth after whyther the preste saye masse in hys gowne or in hys cope and wyll as sone gape for sande as holy salte and had as lyefe be smered with vnhalowed butter as enoynted wyth charmed oyle excepte men can tell them the causes whyche they saye that no man can and therfore they mocke and ieste therat nowe yf thys theyr sorte be as Tyndale sayth the spyrytuall and therby the elder brothern then wyll we say to Tyndale and aske hym why do not you Tyndale and your spyrytuall felowes accordynge to your owne wordes here loue out of your hartes the pope the cardynals the clergye the prynces the people and so forth beynge as your younger brothern not yet borne agayne and why do you not forbere them wyth all loue and pacyence so forth Tyndale taketh greâ—â—â—â—easuâ—e in often bryngynge in theâ—e wordes And so forth and wayte on them and serue them and suffer them and so forth and when they wyll not wyth you come forth why do you not then speke them fayre and flater them and promyse them fayre and so forth and so drawe them forth and so forth And yf that for aâ—l thys they wyll not come forth why do you not then referre the punysshement to the father and mother and smyte them not but contrary to your owne wordes vse at your yoÌ„ger brothern to laughe theÌ„ to skorne to mocke to ieste to checke to chyde to brawle rybaldously to rayle callynge them apyshe peuysshe popysshe iuglers theues murderers bloodsupers tormentours and traytours Pylatys Cayphaas Herodys Annaas Antecrystes Iudaas hypochrytes mokenmongers pryapystes idolatres horemaysters and sodomytes abomynable shameles stark madde and faythlesse bestes hangemen martyr quellers and Cryste kyllers serpentes scorpyons dremers and very dyuels fynally wyth such venemouse wordes and other malyciouse wayes the wurste that the dyuell and you deuyse to gether bysely put forth youre payne to sow debate dyssencion scysmes stryfe and sedycion and cause your spyrytuall people that ys to wyt the elder brothern borne agayne of the spirite to ryse and rebell agaynst your yonger brothern but naturall yet and not borne agayne and the tone parte to smyte kyll the tother by thousandys on a daye as ye haue done in Almayne prouidynge alway that your selfs the chyeff captayns and authours of such sedycion and rebelliouse bloodshed gate vp vppon some hyll in the meane whyle and stonde and loke vppon sure safe a syde halfe out of all gonshotâ— and com not at hand strokes in no wise but serue for trompetours with the blaste of youre wordes and vngracyous wrytynges to kyndâ—e them call vppon and set them all a worke and yf yt walke on youre syde then to gaude and glory and yf yt go agaynste you your parte go to wrake then slynk awaye fro the felde and make as ye cam not there nor neuer enteÌ„ded harme nor meÌ„t any such mater or as your mayster dyd in Almayne to put your selfe out of suspycyon crye to the coÌ„trary parte to kyll them downe hande smothe whom your owne wordes raysed vp and synfully set a worke And lo thus hath Tyndale coÌ„nyngly declared the grete commaundement of loue and by hym selfe and his felowes as ye se so louyngly put in vre that they wolde helpe the tother parte to all the myschyefe they myghte and wolde that on the tother syde what so euer they do them self be it neuer so myscheuouse no man sholde ones chyde them nor gyue fowle wordes but in theyr deuylyshe dedys forbere styll suffer them and take them then â—s younger brothern lytell babys vntaught and gyue them fayre wordes and pretye proper gere ratylles cokbelles and gay goldeÌ„ shone and yf the wantons wyll not lerne yet but byte scratche theyr felowes bete not the babys yet in no wyse but go and tell theyr mother and so forth And when Tyndale hath thus connyngly declared the greate commauÌ„dement of loue and hath so spyrytually set it out to the shew then concludeth he well worshypfully that by thys commaundement of loue in suche a wyse waye vnderstanden his spyrytuall sorte iudgeth all the lawes of god and vnderstande the true vse of them and by the same in lykewyse vnderstande they all the lawes of man which are ryght and whych tyranny For by thys then vnderstande that for the loue that they bere to theyr own wyll euery glose that they gyue them selfe is the ryght meanyng of the worde of god and all that all other holy men haue wryten is but fantasyes and false And in mennis law to let them bete other men for saynge trueth were well ordeyned and ryghte but any man to chyde onys any of theym for a hondred heresyes that were vtter wronge and no lawfull law but
god and hys holy sacramentes and all good crysteÌ„ people whom he laboreth to enfecte with the fury that they sholde not knowe the very chyrche of god whereof them selfe be membres but wolde make them so madde as to byleue that the chyrche of god were some one sorte of an hundred sectes of heretykes no marke among them all why more the tone then the tother where as they muste and do in thys poynte all agree that they be all false saue one and the trouth is in dede that they be false euerychone Now to knowe that the nerer Tyndale cometh to the mater the forther he fleeth from that trouth and hydeth hym selfe in the derkenesse of the deuyll walkynge with a sconse of a dymme lyghte to make men wâ—â—e he wolde shewe them the way and ledeth them clene awry ye shall here how boldely he begynneth and after shall I so shew you the mater that euery chylde shall perceyue hys bolde wyly foly to come of no good truste in hys cause but lakke of wytte and shame Tyndale Whyther the chyrche were before the gospell or the gospell before the chyrche An other dowte there is whether the chyrche or congregacyon be before the gospell or the gospell before the chyrche whyche questyon is as harde to solue as whether the father be elder then the sonne or the sonne elder then his father For the hole scrypture and all byleuynge hertes testyfye that we are begotteÌ„ thorow the worde Wherfore yf the worde begette the congregacyon and he that begetteth is before hym that is begotten then is the gospell before the chyrche Pause also Romano ix sayth how shall they call on whom they beleue not And how shall they byleue without a precher That is Cryste must fyrste be preached ere men can byleue in hym And then it foloweth that the worde of the preacher muste be before the fayth of the byleuer And therfore in as mych as the word is before the fayth and fayth maketh the congregacyon therfore is the worde or gospell before the congregacyon More Lo he that redeth this and hereth not thanswere excepte hym selfe be well ryped in the mater maye wene that Tyndale in these wordes had quyt hym selfe lyke a man borne me ouer quyte he solueth the obieccyon so playnely playeth therwith so pleasauntely But now when ye shall vnderstande that neuer man was so madde to make thys obieccyon to Tindale but hym selfe then shall ye laughe to se that he wresteleth all alone gyueth hym selfe a fall and in hys mery solucyon mokketh also no man but hym selfe I sayed in my dyaloge that the chyrche was before the gospell was wryteÌ„ and that the fayth was taught and men were baptysed and masses sayd and the other sacramentes mynystred amonge crysten people before any parte of the newe testament was put in wrytynge and that this was done by the word of god vnwryten And I sayed also there and yet say here agayne â—hat the ryght fayth whiche Adam had and suche as in the same fayth succeded hym longe ere wrytynge beganne was taught by the worde of god vnwryten and so went from man to man fro the father to the sonne by mouth And I sayed that thys worde of god vnwryten is of as greate authoryte as is the worde of god wryten I shewed also that the chyrche of Cryste hath ben is and â—uer shall be taught and instructed by god and hys holy spâ—ryt wyth hys holy worde of eyther kynde that is to wyt bothe wyth hys worde wryten and hys worde vnwryten and that they whyche wyll not byleue goddes worde but yf he put it in â—â—â—â—ynge be as playne infydeles as they that wyll not byleue it wryten syth goddes worde taketh hys authoryte of god thâ—â— sâ—eketh it anâ— not of man that wryteth it And there is lyke suertye and lyke certayne knowledge of the worde of god vnwryten as there is of the worde of god wryten syth ye knowe neyther the tone nor the tother to be the worde of god but by the tradycyon of the chyrche which chyrch as all crysten men byleue and the scripture sheweth and saynt Austayne declareth and Luther hym selfe confefseth and the deuyll hym selfe sayeth not nay the blessed spyryte of god hath inwardely taught teacheth and euer shall teache to know iudge and dyscerne the worde of god from the worde of man and shall kepe the chyrche from errour ledynge in to euery trouthe as Cryste sayth hym selfe in the .xvi. chapyter of saynt IohnÌ„s gospell whych he dyd not yf he suffered the chyrche to be dampnably deceyued in takynge the worde of man for the word of god wherby it sholde in stede of seruyce to be done to god fall in vnfaythfulnes and wyth idolatry do seruyce to the deuyll And therfore I shewed in my sayd dyaloge and yet the kynges hyghnes mych more playnely shewed in hys moste erudyte famouse boke agaynst Luther out of which I toke it that the word of god vnwryten is of as grete authoryte as certayne and as sure as is hys worde wryten in the scrypture whyche poynt is so faste and sure pytched vppon the rokke our sauyour Cryste hym selfe that neyther Luther Tyndale nor Huskyn nor all the hell houndes that the deuyll hath in his kenell neuer hytherto coulde nor whyle god lyueth in heuen and the deuyll lyeth in hell neuer herafter shall barke they bawle they neuer so faste be able to wreste yt out And that they be all as I tell you so feble in this poynte whereuppon theffecte of all theyr hole heresies hangeth for but yf they veynquysh this one poynt all theyr heresyes fully be burned vppe and fall as flatte to asshen as yt were all moyse all obstinate heretyques dyd ye maye se a clere â—roue by these wordes of Tyndale whyche he hath sette so gloryously forth in the fore fronte of his batayle as thâ—â—gh they were able to wynne the hole felde For where as I sayed that the gospell and the worde of god vnwryten was byfore thâ— chyrche and by yt was the chyrche begonne gathered and tought and that the chyrche was byfore that the gospell that now is wryten was wryten that is to wyt byfore any parâ—â— of the gospell was wryten for as for all the hole gospell 〈◊〉 is to wyt all the wordes of god that he wold haue 〈◊〉 byleued and kepte was yet neuer wryten this beynge the thynge that I sayd Tyndale wyth all the helpe he hath had of all the heretyques in Almayne this two or thre yere to gether is yet in such dyspayre to be able to matche therewith that he is wyth shame inough fayne to forgete that I sayed the chyrche was byfore the gospell wryten whyche thynge hym selfe can not denye and is fayne to frame the doute make the obieccyon as though I had sayed that the chyrch had bene byfore the gospell and the worde of god vnwriten wherof hym selfe knoweth well that I sayed clene the contrarye And therfore
ferther and shew you 〈◊〉 he hath euyll translated also thys selfe same texte of saynte IohnÌ„ to whyche he now alledgeth hath therin falsyfyed the wordes of our sauyour hym selfe whyche he now bryngeth forth for hys purpose The wordys spoken by our lorde be as Tyndale hath translated them these I take no recorde of man In the latyn they be thus Ego testimonium ab homine non recipio whyche yf it be translated into englysshe without the artycle as the latyn hath none then is it thus I take not recorde of man and not as Tyndale hath translated I take no recorde of man He maketh his englyshe as though the latyn were ego nullum testimonium ab homine recipio And whyther the sentence be precysely both one in these twayne I take not recorde of man I take no recorde of maÌ„ we shall not now nede to dispute syth Tyndale taketh the sentence wronge whyche of them both so euer were the wordes as I shall shew anon But fyrste I shall go forth and shew you as I byganne that he sholde haue translated the wordes in to englysh otherwyse and therby haue expressed the greke the better and yet not contraryed the latyne ye shall therfore vnderstande that in that place of saynt IohnÌ„ the fyfte chapyter where Tyndale hathe translated Crystes wordes in this wyse I receyue no recorde of man the greke boke hath there vppon thys worde recorde the artycle that is as I haue shewed you correspondent vnto our englyshe artycle the by which artycle put byfore the word recorde that word there in the tonge in whych theuangelyste wrote the wordes hym selfe sygnyfyeth not a comen record in generall but a certaynâ— specyall kynde of recorde as the greke artycle made the worde prophete in the fyrste chapyter to sygnyfye not a prophete in generall but a specyall prophete whome the Iewes loked for And therfore I saye that Tyndale sholde in his englysh translacyon not haue lefte oute that artycle the but sholde at the leste wyse haue translated yt thus I receyue not the recorde of man where as wyth his translatyng no record that article the wheruppon the wayght of the sentence hangeth he hath not onely lefte oute but clene excluded also For yf he had translated yt I receyue not recorde of man though he leâ—t oute theâ— yet he myght take yt in there to and mende yt makynge 〈◊〉 I receyue not the recorde yf man But now that he hath translated yt I receyue no recorde of man he hathe excluded yt vtterly but if he take in not and putte out his false no for he can not saye I receyue no the recorde of man And thys hathe he done not of ignoraunce but of malyce to make yt seme that Cryste vtterly refuseth and reiecteth all maner wytnesse of man in testyfycacyon and wytnessynge of hym and his trouth And this translacyon therfore deuyseth Tyndale bycause he wold haue vs wene that Cryste wolde haue the wytnesse of all his chyrche vtterly serue of noughte But now bycause yt wyll peraduenture seme vnto some menne that though he had in his translacyon expressed the greke artycle and made yt thus I take not the recorde of man that yet yt were all one and no differeÌ„ce bytwene those wordes and these I take no recorde of man of trouth the dyfference is not ethe for euery man to man to perceyue yet some difference is there in dede as there is bytwene these twayne If a man wolde saye in spekynge of god and Moyses I take Moyses for no leder of the chylderne of Israell he shold say wrong for he shold deny hym to haue ben theyr leder in any maner wyse as he was theyr leder in dede But yf he wolde saye I take not Moyses for the leder of the chylderne of Israel he shold saye well inough for he shold therby not vtterly denye Moyses to haue bene any maner leder of them but he shold denye that he was theyr onely leder or theyr chyefe leder meanynge that though he were a leder yet god was the leder that is to wyt the chyefe leder Now yf any yet perceyue not clerely the strength of this artycle he maye consyder that yt is not all one to saye I take you for no man or I take you uot for a maÌ„ I take you not for the man The two fyrste excludeth hym vtterly from all the nature and kynde of man the thyrd doth but denye hym to de some such certayne man as they meane of But yet shall ye ferther vnderstande that as I sayd in the begynnynge though oure artycle the be correspondent vnto the greke article in declaryng the certayntie of the thyng that it is put vnto and in restraynynge the worde from hys generall sygnyfycacyoÌ„ to a more determynate especyaltye and that in many thynges thys is very playne and clere yet doeth not our artycle somtyme so fully and so effectually declare that thynge as doeth the artycle in the greke specyally but yf we chaunge the order of our englysshe wordes from the order of the greke And therfore I saye that to put away the dowte and for the better expressyng of the artycle Tyndale shold in the translatynge of that place haue chauÌ„ged somwhat the order of the wordes And where they lye in the latyn in thys wyse I receyue not the recorde of man he sholde rather haue translated it thus the recorde I receyue not of man For by so translatynge those wordes and so chaungynge the order he sholde haue gone more nere to the expressynge of the very sentence that Cryste there spake and ment whyche was that the specyall recorde he toke not of man but of god and not that he wolde take of man no maner recorde at all as I shall anone so clerely proue you that Tyndale shall neuer whyle he lyueth wade out therof But fyrst it wyll happely seme hard to some men that he whyche translateth sholde in hys translatynge make any chaunge in the order of the wordes ye shall vnderstande that it is a thyng whych he must many tymes nedys do bycause of the maners and formes of spekyng in dyuers langages For yf he shall alwaye translate worde for worde and in the order as it staÌ„deth he shall somtyme gyue a sentence vnable to be perceyued or vnderstanden and somtyme a wronge sentence ye somtyme a contrary to of all whyche I coude gyue you samples were it not bothe nedeles also to longe for thys present boke I wyll therfore of a greate many gyue you but one in whyche Tyndale hath for lakke of chaungynge the order of the wordes translated a very playne place in the very begynnynge of saynt IohnÌ„s gospell whyther wronge or no lette other iudge but surely otherwyse then I wolde haue done Hys translacyon is thys In the begynnyng was that worde and that worde was with god and god was that worde Fyrst thys worde that putteth Tyndale for the artycle the wherof
he sayth that Cryste and his apostles dyd coÌ„fyrme euery sermone with a sondry miracle For tyll he proue me that by scrypture I denye yt playnely For syth neyther scrypture teacheth yt nor the catholyke chyrch preacheth yt nor any reason proueth yt I maye well and boldely denye yt and so I do For I se well his falsed for whych he fayneth yt He seeth miracles wrought by god plentuousely in hys chyrche and that thereby his chyrche and the fayth therof is confermed and therfore to brynge at the lestewyse some parte therof in questyon he wold saye that we fynde not specyall miracles done for euery poynte But I say no more dyd the apostles neyther nor Tyndale shall neuer proue yt For yf he wyll proue me that he muste proue me trew not onely the thyng that hym selfe sayth whych is more then euer he shall proue trew that is to wyt that they proued euery sermon wyth a sondry miracle but also that eyther they neuer preched but one artycle in one sermone Or yf they preached many he muste then proue me two thynges one that they coÌ„fyrmed that sermon wyth as many miracles as they preached poyntes a nother that they shewed the people that the miracles whyche they then dyd was so many miracles for so many poyntes for ellys myght all those myracles be done for the profe of one of those poyntes and all the remanaunt vnproued For yf Tyndale wyll say that thinge neded not for as mych as any one miracle suffysed to proue them all syth yt proued hym a trew preacher then shall Tyndale say â—o the thynge that I wolde haue hym saye for then hym selfe proueth that it neded not that they sholde proue euery sermone wyth a seuerall myracle made amonge one people nor peraduenture any one sermone neyther otherwyse then as by miracles shewed at other occasions bysyde theyr sermons they proued them selfe holy men and goddes messengers For we fynde many miracles done by them at suche tymes as they were not makynge of sermons And yet when they dyd them in Crystes name we finde not alway that they added a specyall artycle of oure faith whyche specyaltye they wolde haue by that miracle confermed And thus ye se that hâ—re he affermeth one thinge that he shall neuer proue whych thynge yet I wolde not vouche safe to speke of sauynge that he doth it of an euill purpose For hys mayster Martyne Luther when Erasmus layed agaynste hym for mannys fre wyll the doctryâ—e of the olde holy saynts whose fayth was approued by miracles layed agaynst hym agayne that though they dyd myracles Erasmus yet coulde not proue that any of them dyd a myracle specyally for that artycle and therfore he wolde haue that artycle seme vnproued as for any myracle And this way taketh Tyndale now for the selfe same â—â—tâ—nt therfore fayneth that the apostles confermed euery sermone wyth a sondrye myracle But I dowte not but that yf we sholde bydde Tyndale here or Luther hym selfe proue vs euery artycle of his fayth whych he wolde we sholde wene were the fayth that the apostles preached yf we sholde I say dyd them proue vs that the apoâ—â—les confâ—â—med euery artycle therof by a sondry myracle they shold seeke in scrypture tyll theyr eyen were â—â—â—ete they â—â—â—â—de it Moreâ—â—er Tyndales wordes fyghte to gether and one 〈◊〉 can not agre wyth an other For yf these wordes â—â— trew that they preued euery sermon with a sondry myracle 〈…〉 false that he sayth here also that is to wyt of â—â—racles 〈…〉 be wryten as nedeth 〈…〉 that Tyndale sayâ—h that thapoâ—â—le◠〈◊〉 〈…〉 miracle yt foloweth that euery necessary poynte that they preached they dyd proue by miracle Then ferther yf euery necessary poynte that they preached they preued by miracle bycause yt was nedefull that yt sholde be for credence to be geuen to that point for our soules helth it was nedefull then for the coÌ„seruacion of the same credence yf the credeÌ„ce coulde not be kepte wythout wrytynge that of euery suche necessary poynt of fayth and necessarye doctryne of theyrs wythout whych byleued we canne not be saued there were one miracle wryten at the leste But there ys not of euery suche artycle one miracle wrytyn ergo yt is not trewe that Tyndale goth aboute to proue that the miracles as many be wryten as nede and that euery necessary thynge is wryten And veryly yf euery thynge that we sholde necessaryly byleue had ben th entent of god to haue it put in wrytynge and that yt hadde ben also necessary that euery poynt were preued by one miracle and not suffycyent that the prechers were proued by miracles them selfe therby their doctrine to be byleued yt were very probable then both that the wryters wolde haue wryten some thinges mych more open and playne theÌ„ they â—aue done and also that of euery necessary poynte of fayth they wolde haue wryten one miracle at the leste But now syth god entended not to gyue his new lawe by bokes but specyally by the necessary poyntes therof wryten in mennys hartes wherof hym selfe wolde be the specyall inwarde mayster he hath prouyded that scrypture to serue for parte but not to serue alone for all And syth suche myracles as be wryten therin suffyse to proue the apostles goddes trew preachers and therfore neded not myracles to be wrytenâ—for euery poynte of theyr preachynge no more neded there to be myracles done for euery poynt of theyr preaâ—â—â—ge And for farther profe therof hew many thynges preacâ—ed the apostles by theyr pystles wyth whyche we rede not that they sente by the messengere for euery poynte a myracle And thus good readers here ye se fyrste that thys poynâ— of Tyndales preachynge muste be better proued whyche poynt thus reproued answereth and reproueth clerely dyâ—â—â—â— other places of hys boke hereafter But yet is i◠〈◊〉 â—o â—e consydered wayed in hys wordes that he sayth 〈…〉 substauâ—ce in generall of euerythynge â—â—â—â—ssary to 〈◊〉 soules hesth both of what we ought to byleue and what we ought to do 〈◊〉 wryten So that what so euer we ought to byleue or do that same is wryten expressely or drawen of that whyche is wryten More In these wordes though I fynde lakke of trouth yet I sumwhat alow hys wyt as our sauyour sayed by the wykked bayly Lucae 15 whyche though he played the false shrewe for hys mayster prouyded yet wylyly sumwhat for hym selfe And so playeth Tyndale here For now that he playnely perceyueth that the doctryne is playnely false whyche hys mayster Luther hym selfe to haue taught so playnely bytwen them all thys whyle that is to wyt that there is no necessary trouth to be byleued but yf it be proued by playne euydent scrypture now cometh Tyndale and seeth that they shall be put to flyghte and fayne to runne awaye and therfore wylyly prouydeth a startynge hole steppynge from playne and euydent scrypture theyr old specyall playne euydent wordes vnto darke
out of the scrypture wherein he may as well byleue what he wyll and take what he lyste not of yâ— tradycyon of Crystes catholyque chyrche but of the tradycyon of Martyne Luthers lemman as frame hym selfe a fayth by a deduccion of scripture deduced in such a fashion In the same manner he draweth out of scrypture in hys boke of obedyence and in thys boke also that a frere may marye a nonne by the authoryte of saynt Poule For beyng asked where he fyndeth yt in scrypture he sayth yt is wryten in these wordes to Timothe 1. Timoth. 3 a byshoppe muste be vnreprouable and the husbande of one wyfe And in the wordes of saynte Poule 1. Timoth. 4. there shall come false prophetes that shall forbede maryage And in this texte also 1. Corinth 7. yt is better to may then to burne Is not this conclusyon trow ye well deduced In the fyrst bycause saynte Poule dyd putte in this word one to forbyd and exclude any mo then one Tyndale deduceth that a bysshoppe muste nedes haue one and thereby maketh saynte Poule false in a nother place where he counsayleth wysshyth that he sholde rather haue none In the seconde texte bycause saynt Poule condeÌ„neth theÌ„ that wolde saye yt were not lawfull for any man to mary Tyndale deduceth that euery maye mary though hym self haue made vnto god a contrary promyse byfore myght as well deduce that no man maye be forbode to mary though he haue a wyfe all redy For the frâ—re is as well and as clerely forboden to mary by the scryptures that forbedeth hym the breche of his vowe as is the man forbodeÌ„ to mary that hath a wyfe all redye And vppon the thyrde texte bycause saynt Poule sayth that yt is better to mary theÌ„ to burne Tyndale deduceth that it is better for a frere to marye then to forbere lechery coÌ„sydereth not that when he breketh his vow and weddeth an harlot then he burneth both bodye and soule fyrste hete in fyre of foule fylthy luste and after thys worlde in euerlastynge fyre of hell Is not thys conclusyon worshypfully deduced vppon scrypture It is meruayle that he deduceth it not rather vppon the texte that he speketh of here Loue thy neyghbour as thy selfe and vppon thys texte also Do to another as thou woldest be done to thy selfe These haue yet some better colour for Luther and hys leÌ„man and I doute not but he wyll fynde them at laste and saye that hys maryage is grounded there bycause he loueth her wyth suche a lewde lousy loue as the lewde lousy louer in lechery loueth hym selfe and is so ryghtuousely dysposed that he wyll neuer desyre that she shall lye wyth hym but wheÌ„ he is euen as well content that hym selfe shall lye wyth her Thys that we saye now in sporte he wyll saye ones in erneste I warraunt you Now for the declaracyon of hys purpose in drawynge deducynge of thartycle of theyr faythlesse fayth out of scrypture of god these ensamples suffyse and therfore I shall procede farther Now nexte he coÌ„meth to the purpose to proue you that euery necessary thyng that we be bounden eyther to byleue or to doâ— is wryten in scrypture And now harke I praye you how properly the good man proueth it These are hys wordes Tyndale For yf that I were bounden to do or byleue vnder payne of losse of my soule any thyâ—ge that were not wryten nor depended of that whyche is wryten what â—olpe me the scrypture that is wrytâ—n More Lo here is hys fyrste argumeÌ„t that he setteth forth in the fore fronte of the feld as a specyall stronge bande whyche argument who so wâ—ll aduyâ—e and consyder yf hym selfe haue wyt shall playnely saye that it commeth out of a mad mannâ—s mouth For by thys â—â—afon tyll the gospellys were wryten euery man myghtâ— haue refused all the doctryne of Cryst in euery poyâ—t that was not wryteÌ„ in the scrypture before his day nor drawen out therof by a lytell streyghter lyne then Luther draweth his And when Cryste taught them the counsayle of virgiâ—â—tâ— and â—any other holesâ—â—â— thynges aboue the perfeccyon of theyr olde lawe they myght haue sayd shew me tâ—ys in wrytyng And then yf he had answered that hym selfe beynge suche as he was and for suche testyfyed by wrytyng and by the worde of hys father and by hys owne wonderouse workes owed to be byleued of them in euery thyng vppon payne of the losse of theyr soules they myghte haue sayed agayn as Tyndale sayth now yf we be bouÌ„den vppoÌ„ the payne of losse of our soules to beleue any thynge that is not wryten nor dependeth of that whyche is wryten what holpe vs the scrypture that is wryten Thys tale of Tyndales myghte they haue tolde vnto Cryst hym self agaynst the sacrament of baptysme the sacrament of the awter to 1. Corinth 11. Now when saynt Poule in his pystle to the Corynthyes sayed I wyll order the remanaunt when I come my selfe they sholde by Tyndales reason haue sent hym hys pystle agayne and saye If we shall be bounden to do any thynge vnwryten what auayleth vs all that euer thou wrytest But there nedeth no places of scrypture to thys blasphemouse foly of Tindale spoken agaynst the scripture bycause god hath taught left some parte of hys pleasure wythout scrypture For yf a man wryte certayne rules to hys howsholde seruauÌ„tes and yet gyue them certayne besyde by his owne mouth such as peraduenture shold nede no warnyng in wrytynge bycause the coÌ„tynuall vse and excerâ—yse of theÌ„ coude not suffer them to bâ— forgotten in whych kynde of coÌ„maundementes be the blessed sacramentes so dayly vsed in Crystes chyrch that forgoten they can not be nor lefte they shall not be for all the besynesse that these heretykes the deuyls doctours can make yf thys lordes seruauntes were so wyse to lerne thys lesson of Tyndale and saye naye syr and ye leue these thynges vnwryten then a strawe for all that ye haue wryten myghte not the mayster saye that hys menne were a sorte of malaperte folysshe knauys And thys is as ye se Tyndales fyrst reason wherwyth he full properly proueth vs that the apostles wrote alâ— togyther that euer we sholde be bounden to byleue whyche reason ye se your selfe is not worth one â—ysshe but râ—â—her a playne â—nreasonable blasphemy folysshely spoken agaynst the â—criptuâ—â— of god whych he sayth serueth for nought yf god bynâ—â— vs to byleue any worde of hys bysyâ—e Now let vs procede to the seconde whyâ—â— is I promyse you very seconde foâ— any frute that ye shall fynâ—â— therin These are hys wordeâ— Tyndale In as mych as Cryste and all his apostles warned vs that false prophetes shold come with false myracles euen to deceyue the electes yf it were possible wherwyth sholde the trew precher confouÌ„de the false excepte he brought trew myracles to confounde the false or ellys autentique scrypture of full authoryte all redy
theyr bokes and yet wryten in they re soules dyd there many martyrs stand and shede theyr blood in wytnesse of the trouth therof that neuer red nor herde the scrypture in theyr dayes and wold in the same word vnwryten wyth goddes grace haue wythstanden false myracles to whych had yet bene vndoutedly the sorest pynche sauyng for the mo and more meruelouse myracles that them selfe saw or byleued done on the tother syde for the trouth But I say therfore as I haue ofteÌ„ sayd byfore that as for miracles he hath so specially kepte for the profeâ— of the trouth that all the myracles whyche the paynyms or other infydeles haue done excepte heretyques he hath euer made his trew preachers to do greater myracles agaynste them by the greater miracles to destroye them as he dyd in Moyses and in Heliseus in his holy apostles other holy sayntes after them But as for heretykes god hathe neuer sufferd them to do any miracles at all bycause he wolde haue by the marke of miracles hys very trew chyrche knowen from all the false chyrches of heretyques Nor neuer shall he suffer them to do any tyll the great archeheretyke Antycryste come hym selfe whyche as helpe me god I fere be very nere hys tyme and that Luther is his very fore goar his baptiste to make redy his way in the deserte of this wreched world and Tindale frere Huskyn and Swynglius his very fals prophetes to preache for hym But when he shall come hym felfe and worke wonders to peruert yf yt myght be the euery chosen to yet shall he not worke miracles alone but god shall for his chyrche in miracles farre passe hym for anger whereof he shall kyll them and truste all in strength of sword And bycause he shall haue so many wayes to turne the peple wronge god shall not suffer the wreche longe but shall shorten his dayes and puttynge strength and miracle to gether shall kyll hym wyth the spiryte or blaste of hys holy mouth And thus good readers ye playnely now perceyue that syth the scrypture alone agaynst heretyques and miracles maye not suffyciently serue to vnlerned people otherwyse then maye the bylyefe wythout the scripture and also that heretykes shall do no miracles tyll Antecryste come and yet then shall haue also greater miracles wrought agaynste hym and that his tyme shal be but shorte and hym selfe fynally by miracle destroyed and kylled ye se proued playnely yâ— Tyndales secunde reason wyth whych he wold proue that the apostles lefte no necessary thynge vnwriten hath in yt no reason at all Tyndale Some man wolde aske how dyd god contynue his generacyon from Adam to Noe and froÌ„ Noe to Abraam and so to Moyses without writyng but with teachynge fro mouth to mouth I answere fyrste that there was no scrypture in the worlde all the whyle that shall they proue when our lady hath a new sonne More Tyndale sayth that some man wolde aske this question But he knoweth well inough that I laye this agaynst hym in my dialoge bycause he so precysely sayth that nothynge maye be certaynely knowen to be byleued but by scrypture And now he answereth me that our ladye shall haue a newe sonne ere I caÌ„ proue that there was not scripture from the bygynnynge He wayeth his wordes wysely when he sayth that our lady shall haue a new sonne fyrst whych he myght as well say by euery womaÌ„ that is passed this world sauyng that our lady neuer had a new sonne bysyde our sauyour Criste is none artycle of his false fayth as hym selfe playnely confesseth bycause yt is not playnely wryten in scrypture But is not this a proper answere now where as agaynst hys false grounde that there can be no trewe fayth but yf it be wryten in scrypture I obiected agaynste hym the fayth of many good faythfull men in whose dayes we can not preue that theyr fayth was wryten yet we dowte not but that they were good faythfull he sayth I can not proue that they had no scrypture If he wyll saye as he doeth that they coude haue no good and sure fayth wythout scrypture and wyll also confesse as he doth that they had good and sure fayth he must hym selfe proue that they had scrypture and not tell me that our lady shall haue a newe sone ere I proue that they had no scrypture For it is inough for me that our lady shall haue two new sonnes ere Tindale proue that some of those faythfull folke in the fyrst or seconde generacyon had any wrytynge at all and that our lady shall haue fyue new sonnes ere Tyndale proue that the faythfull people had before Moyses dayes and scrypture suche as Tyndale muste mene but yf he go about to begyle vs wyth sophystycall equyuocacion For our mater is not of scrypture as it is taken for bare wrytynge suche as euery scryueners boye wryteth in hys maysters shoppe but as it sygnyfyeth suche holy wrytynge as god causeth to be wryten byndeth folke to byleue vppon the parell of theyr soule helth And then I saye yet agayne that it is inough for me that our lady shall haue fyfcene new sonnys ere Tyndale be able to proue me that some of those whom I alledge he confesseth for faythfull folke had any suche scrypture at all And Tyndale felynge full well that thys poynte prykketh hym shrynketh hyther and thyder thereat and seketh many shyftes And for all the shyftes that he fyndeth here bycause they all satysfye not hym selfe he is fayne aâ—terwarde in hys answere to my dyaloge to seke vp some new sayth that in Noes dayes when the flode came there were no mo lefte that byleued ryght but those that were saued in the shyppe In whyche place he iesteth vppon that vertuose connynge man Nicholas de lira sayeng Lira delirat But it is more easy for Tyndale to make a mokke vppon hys name then to obtayne his vertue and lernyng But what winneth Tyndale by that answere there yf he sayed trewe yet were he neuer the nere For yf the hole worlde were at that tyme fallen from the fayth saue those few yet were it for my purpose suffycyent that the trewe fayth had fyrste from god to man and so forth fro man to man comâ— by mouth without scrypture vnto those few though all the remanaunt that hadde herde thereof hadde then bene fallen fro the bylyefe thereof excepte onely those few as all the knowen nacions of the worlde that hath herd of Crystes fayth and holy scrypture to be now fallen from both twayne saue onely these few that yet remayne And of them some fall from the fayth and from theffecte of scrypture by false interpretacyon as they that fall fro the sacramentes that so constre the scrypture that they wolde make yt saye that freres may wedde nonnes Of both whych sortes yf there went so many away that the remanaunt whyche were lefte were as few as were takeÌ„ into Noes shyppe yet
downe to meanyng as yt semeth that yf we kepe the fayth and beleue wyth Luther that there nedeth no more but fayth and then therwyth kepe the lawe of loue after Luthers louynge maner in lodgynge louers freres and nonnes louyngly to gether then we shall neuer nede to care whether we chaūge or put downe ceremonyes and sacramentes and all And surely very soth he sayth For when we fall ones to be contente wyth that there wyll but yf we chaunge that mynde and mende neyther any ceremony nor any sacramēt serue vs. And yet yf fayth and loue be as Tyndale here sayth the sygnyfycacyons of all the ceremonyes what parell is there to kepe all the ceremonyes with them twayne wythout any other sygnyfycacyons And thus by Tyndale hys owne tale we shall neyther nede to put thē downe alter nor chaūg them where he sayth afore we muste seke the sygnyfycacyons agayne or put downe the ceremonyes vppon payne of damnacyon And here haue ye now sene all that euer he sayth for the profe of the thyng that he hath in this chapiter takē in hāde to proue that is to wyt that the apostles haue lefte wryten in scrypture all thynges that of necessyte perteyne to the soule helth both in thynges to be done thynges to be byleued And now perceyue ye perfitely also y◠all that euer he sayth there is not any one thynge that to the profe of his purpose serueth hym worth a rysh Here myght I now well leue ye se well as for thys mater syth I haue suffycyently confuted and auoyded clerely all that Tyndale hath alledged for hys parte in thys chapyter in whyche he wold proue that the apostles haue lefte wryten in holy scrypture euery thynge necessarye to be byleued or done for the saluacyon of our soules and that so fully that what so euer is not wryten in scrypture nor deduced theruppon by whyche deducyng what he meaneth◠I haue by his owne example shewed you that thynge is not as he sayth to be byleued nor to be done of necessyte but mē be at theyr lybertie in all such maner thynge to do yt or do yt not byleue yt or byleue yt not or rather in synne to byleue yt or do yt though all the catholyque chyrche of Cryste both do byleue and many hundred yeres haue byleued that the thyng is of necessyte to be done or byleued In whyche mate◠〈◊〉 ◠saye syth Tyndale hath fayled of his profe I myght here make an ende sauynge that I haue though◠yt conuenyēt for his more vtter confusyon to brynge in by and by suche thynges as I fynde writen by hym for his parte in this mater bysyde that ye maye se wythout farther sekynge for yt all that he can saye at ones I shall therfore shew you his answeres to suche thynges as I in the .xxv. chapyter of the fyrst boke of my dyaloge alledged for the profe that all necessarye thynges were not wryten in scrypture but some suche onely taught and delyuered vnto the chyrch by mouth And when ye shall here haue herde Tyndales answeres vnto those thynges ye shall then the more clerely perceyue how foule a fall he hath in thys mater vppon whyche the greate parte of all hys heresyes dependeth and ouer that ye shall ryght easely iudge what pyth and substaunce is in his boke of answeres wherwyth he wolde fayne seme clerely to confute my dyaloge I shewed there in my dialoge by the authorite of saynte Iohn̄ the euāgelyste in the laste chapyter of hys gospell that all thyng was not wryten For there he sayth hym selfe Iohn̄ 21 Many thynges dyd Iesus whyche yf they were all wryten the worlde wold not receyue the bokes To thys answereth Tyndale thus Tyndale He iugleth For Iohn̄ meaneth of the myracles whyche Iesus dyd and not of the necessarye poyntes of the fayth More ye se well now that Tyndale well feleth that syth y◠euāgelystes dyd not go togyther by appoyntement to wryte theyr gospels nor when they hadde wryten them conferred theyr bokes togyther to se whyther euery necessary poynte were wryten in amonge them all or ellys at that collacyon to put it in some one as we fynde that saynt Poule had conference wyth Peter and other of the apostles Galathas 2 to come and speke of the fayth amonge them but not to wryte it all out in bokes but euery euangelyste of occasyō offred vnto hym selfe as god put in hys mynde and remembraunce wrote hys owne gospell seuerally by hym selfe and theyr epystles in lyke wyse and peraduenture one of them in all theyr lyues neuer redde the gospell that the tother wrote thys I saye beynge thus excepte that god besyde theyr purpose prouyded ◠amonge them all euery necessary poynte sholde be wryten whyche thynge Tyndale neyther doth nor can by reason or scrypture proue ellys yf any of them lefte vnwryten any poynt necessary to be byleued Tyndale can not saye but that euery of the other apostles myghte do y◠same and then hath Tyndale no surety that euery suche thynge was wryten And therfore Tyndale feleth full well how nere this place of saynt Iohn̄ prykketh hym yf in those wordes of saynte Iohn̄ myghte be vnderstanden that he had not wrytē euery necessary poynt of our bylefe And therfore to auoyde this pynche Tyndale sayth that I iugle For saynte Iohn̄ he sayeth ment onely of Crystes myracles and not of any necessary poynt of the fayth I iugle not For I saye not nay but the saynt Iohn̄ ment of myracles And in the tone place of the twayne he speketh of myracles by name sayenge Iesus wroughte many other myracles in the presence of hys dyscyples that be not wrytē in thys boke In the tother place in the very ende he sayth the Cryste dyd many other thynges whyche yf they shold be all wryten all the worlde coude not receyue the bokes that sholde be wryten In whyche wordes I denye not but that saynte Iohn̄ ment of Crystes myracles to therfore I iugle not But Tyndale that in that seconde place where saynte Iohn̄ meneth no myracles there excludeth hys doctryne wolde make vs wene that saynt Iohn̄ lefte not vnwryten any necessary point of fayth he iugleth goth about to begyle vs I thynke he taketh not so grete hold◠vppon this word dyd in that saynt Iohn̄ sayth Cryste dyd many other thynges and sayth not Cryste taughte many other thynges For thys worde doynge includeth techynge talkyng spekyng and all As yf a man wolde saye Cryst prayed preched and taught this dyd he daye and nyght And therfore syth saint Iohn̄s hole boke was made not onely of Crystes myracles but also of hys doctryne as well worde as dede and then he sayth in the very ende of hys boke that Cryste dyd many thynges mo wherof yf all were wrytē the worlde coude not receyue the bokes why maye not thys be vnderstanden of wordes and dedes and all but yf Tyndale wene that the bokes wolde be
of the sabbat day so that we may chaung the sondaye into mondaye He sayth that there was neuer cause to chaung it fro satterday but onely to put a difference betwene vs the Iewes and leste we sholde bycome seruauntes vnto the daye after theyr superstycyon But I thynke there was bysyde thys a nother cause more pryncypall then any of both those For the Iewes and the crysten hadde other dyfferences and dystynccyons betwene them as baptysme and cyrcumcysyon Nor yt hadde not ben so great incoÌ„uenience that they shold both haue serued god on one daye that for the auoydyng therof we sholde haue lefte the daye that god hym selfe appoynted in the begynnynge And also crysten men both myght haue kepte the same daye that the Iewes kepte and yet haue left the superstycyon therof that the Iewes vse And may nowe also as happely some do kepe the sonday wyth lyke superstycyon as the Iewes do the saterday And therefore these causes be but dyuyned and gessed at and seme but very secundary But the very cause of the chaung is that meÌ„ were not the lordes of the saâ—batday nor men were not the pryncypall authours and makers of the chaunge But the sonne of man our sauyour Cryste hym selfe beynge as he sayde hym selfe lorde euen ouer the sabbatday to and whyche as god hadde made and ordeyned the sabbatdaye for man and not man for the sabbatday and yet neuerthelesse subdued man vnto certayne order of seruynge not the sabbatday but god vppon the sabbatday he I saye hym selfe when he delyuered the people from the obseruauÌ„ce of the olde law dyd as lorde of the sabbatday dyscharge them of the sabbatday And yet bycause they sholde not haue suche a lordely mynde as Tyndale here teacheth vs to haue as to thynke they myght at theyr pleasure take what day they wolde and make and breke as they lyste he appoynted them hym selfe and his owne holy spyrite the day of his owne resurreccioÌ„ whyche gloryouse rysynge of his blessed body not onely to reste but also to eternall glory it pleased hym to haue wekely celebrate wyth the restynge day drawen from wordely besynes to the desyre of heuen acceptable seruyce of god And for this is yt and euer hath ben specyally called our lordes daye wherof to say that we be now the lordes and able to chaunge yt to fryday for our pleasure or turne yt to euery tenth day when we lyste I wene that none wyll saye so but lurdanes yâ— longed to make gaudyes of goddes passyoÌ„ or make hym honored selder then he shold For as for nede fell there neuer none such yet to chaunge this day that Cryste hath ordeyned hym self And he is as able to kepe it froÌ„ such nede of chaunge for euer here after as he hath kepte yt this xv hundred yere byfore If Tyndale stykke styll in this poynte say the chyrche made yt and the chyrch may breke yt I say that the chyrch as yt made yt so yt maye breke yt That is to wyt that as yt made yt by the spiryte of god so yt may breke yt by the same spiryte That is to say that as god made yt so hym self may breke yt yf yt so shall please hym For in suche thynges though the chyrche haue ordeyned yt yet hath the chyrche not done yt but the spiryte of god as holy saynte Austayne sayth in the receyuynge of ouâ— howsell where he sayth that yt hath pleased the holy goost that where as in the bygynnynge yt was receyued after other meatys yt shode be now receyued of folke whyle they be fastynge And in lyke wyse the apostles to geue vs knowlege that though the chyrche make the ordinaunce yet the spyryt of god is the worker therof wrote as is remembred in the .xv. of the actes It hath pleased the holy goost and vs so forth shewed what lawes they had made declarynge therby that though them selfe made them yet made they them not wyth out the mocyon of goddes holy spiryte And neuer shall the whole catholyque chyrche neyther make wythout god nor breke agayne wythout hym But he shall wyth hys presence and hys holy spyryte so gyde and gouerne hys chyrch in suche manner of thynges that they shall not chaungâ— chaunge the sondaye neyther of lordely myndeâ— pleasure nor necessyte Nor I thynke he shall neuer suffer the chyrch to chaunge it But it is a chaunge ones so made and establysshed by our sauyour hym selfe that as the saterdaye was ordeyned by god hym selfe to stande vnchaunged tyll Cryst came so is Crystes daye so ordeyned by hym selfe â— that it shall stande vnchaunged tyll hym selfe come agayne chaunge all the weke and all the yere to into one eternall daye wythout eyther weke or yere And thys chaunge hath he made I saye fro saterdaye to sondaye hym selfe wythout scrypture whyche we be bounden wythout scrypture obedyentely to kepe and obserue what so euer Tyndale bable and scoffe agaynste it For where Tyndale sayth that we be suche lordes ouer it that we maye chaunge and make our sabbatdaye as well vppon any other daye as vppon the sondaye I wolde wyt of hym whyche we whyther the hole catholyke chyrche or euery pertyculare prouynce and yf so then euery dyocyse and by the same reason euery parysshe by it selfe and then any howsholde and fynally any one man is by hym selfe at the same lybertye to kepe for hys owne sabbat daye whyche daye he lyste hym selfe and nede not to come to chyrche wyth other but whan there is a sermone And then ye wote well thys waye wolde do well Now yf he meane by we all we the hole chyrche of Cryst by a comen consent then must he tell vs whyche is it and then muste he nedes assygne a knowen chyrche where is then becomeÌ„ hys heresye of theyr secrete vnknowen chyrche of electes and penytentes wythout penaunce And where he sayth we nede none holydaye at all yf the people myghte be taught wythout it thys is one drawght of hys poyson putte forth vnder the swete pretexte of preachynge wherby syth preachynge is necessary he wolde make men byleue that commynge to chyrche on the holy-day or there to honour god wyth dyuyne seruyce and prayour were but a thynge of nought where as the apostles came them selfe in to the temples in the holydayes to praye And our sauyour alledgeth hym selfe the wordes of Esay Esaiae .51 My howse shall be called the howse of prayour Now where as I alledged in my dyaloge the wordes of saynte Poule vnto the Thessalonycenses to whom he wryteth in thys wyse kepe you my tradycyons whych I haue taken you eyther by worde or letter to this doth Tyndale answere noâ—hynge to me but thys Tyndale I haue to that answered Rochester in the obedience that his tradicyons were the gospell that he preached More In very dede Tyndale in hys boke of disobedyence laboreth sore to wade out of those wordes of saynte Poule
saye that they myght at that tyme leue all such vndone and say as Tyndale sayth all that vtterly we denye and also defye I wolde fayne wyt wherfore Tyndale sholde take it for so straunge that god or hys apostles sholde gyue vnto Crystes chyrche any ceremonyes wherof they sholde not vnderstande the reason when he seeth well that god hath spoken to his people many wordes by his prophetes and his owne sonne and hys sonnes apostles to and caused them to be wryten also in holy scrypture in whyche textes men be no more sure of the very sentence then of the very sygnyfycacyon of those ceremonyes But god hath not wythout oure frute lefte suche thynges vnknowen vnto vs to quykken eâ—ercyse as saynte Austayne sayth some mennys myndes in the studye and deuysynge theruppon whyche yf all were open and playne wolde waxe neglygent and dull and now in the deuysynge theruppon fynde out good and frutefull thynges allegoryes and other not affermynge those to be the very thynges there entended â—ut thynges that deuoutely frutefully may be thereon takeÌ„ and turne men to deuocyon and thys as well in the ceremonyes as in those harde and not intellygyble textes And yf Tyndale deny thys bycause he wolde seme sure of all thynge and that there were no place in scrypture to hym not vnderstanden he shall whyle he wolde seme so wyse proue hym selfe a fole in the iugement of all men that any thynge laboure in scrypture And thus ye se now in what substancyall wyse that Tyndale hath answered my lorde of Rochester vnto the playne wordes of saynt Poule wryten vnto the Thessalonycenses by whych wordes he sheweth playnely hym selfe that he wrote not all that he taught And then that these thynges whyche Tyndale impugneth why that they myghte not be among those thynges that saynt Poule taughte by mouth ye haue herde I say how wourshypfully Tyndale hath proued I were lothe to leue vntouched any thyng that Tyndale any where sayeth agaynste my purpose in thys mater And therfore syth I fynde in hys answere to my dyaloge yet a nother patche wherin I perceyue he taketh great pleasure and weneth or wolde at the lest that other men sholde wene that he had therwyth vtterly proued hys parte and clerely reproued myne I wyll wythdrawe none of hys glory and therfore ye shall here that to In hys answere to the .xxix. chapyter of my fyrste boke these are hys wordes Tyndale In the .xxix. chapyter M. More alledgeth that Cryste sâ—yed not the 〈◊〉 goost shall wryte but shall teache It is not the vse to saye tâ—â— holy 〈◊〉 writeth but inspyreth the wryter More Properly answered yf I wolde holde my peace But I muste put Tyndale agayne in remembrauÌ„ce bycause he byleueth nothyng but scrypture and then draweth all the scripture into goddes promyses I muste therfore I say putte hym in remembraunce that I brought in that authoryte to shew hym that god made no promyse that he wolde wryte all his new testament nor cause yt to be made all in bokes but that he wolde sende his holy goost to teche his chyrch to lede theÌ„ into euery trouth And where Tyndale sayth it is not the vse to say the holy goost writeth but inspyreth yâ— wryter I say agayne that the scrypture letteth not to speke of goddes writyng to tell how he wyll wryte his new testameÌ„t when he sayth by the mouth of the prophete Hieremy I shall geue my law in theyr bowles I shall wryte yt in theyr hartes Hiâ—râ—m â—1 Lo here he telleth what maner of wrytyng he wyll vse in wrytynge of his newe law bycause we shall not excuse our selfe say that we wyll not byleue no more thereof then we shall fynde wryten in bokes He maketh vs no promyse that he wyll cause it to be wryteÌ„ in bokes but pursuyng these wordes of the prophete he sayd hym selfe his owne mouthâ— that he wolde send the holy goost to come teache his chyrche lede them in to euery trouth To this will Tyndale happely say in the word he ment and so dyd the prophete also that he wolde wryte yt in the hartes of the euangelystes and apostles and teache them lede them â—nto euery trouth whych shold put all the necessary trouth in wrytynge Let Tyndale proue this meanynge by some one text of scripture or some one necessary reason of whyche neyther hym selfe nor any other of his felowes haue founden any one yet And the wordes as well of the prophete as of our sauyour hym selfe declare them selfe to the contrary For the prophete and the euangelyste saythâ— Eâ—â—iae .54 Ioâ—annis â— that they shal be all goddes owne scolers whych sygnyfyeth that the congregacyon and companye shall be taught by god and his spyrite that shall wryte the new law the ryght fayth in the hartes of hys chyrche And our sauyour sayd I shall sende the holy goost that shall teache you all thynge and lede you into euery trouth He sayde not the holy goost shall teche some of you that shall wryte yt out vnto the remanaunt And therfore Tyndales comely glose wyll not so substauncyally serue hym as he wolde haue yt seme For as that holy spiryte enspired mo then them that wrote so enspyred he the wryters in mo thynges then they wrote whych thynges they taught by mouth and lefte it wyth the people by tradycyon as god lefte it wyth theÌ„ whych thynge doth by theyr owne wordes well appere Iohannis .xxj ad Thessalonicenses 2. Thess. 2. ad Corynthios .xj. And yf these playne textes seme not yet suffycyent for our parte let hym and all his felowes brynge forth some halfe texte halfe so suffycyent for theyr parte prouynge that all is wryten and take all to gether But yet goth he farther and wolde seme of hys curtesye to helpe me somwhat forth say more theÌ„ I could for myne owne parte and yet auoyde yt to For thus he sayth Tyndale I meruayle that he hadde not brought as many of his brethern do Mathew in the laste where Cryste commaunded the aposâ—les to go and teache all nacyons and sayed not wryte More In dede this wolde haue ben well brought in there and many of my brethern haue as he sayth brought yt in my selfe also some where ellys in places mo then one whyche I now boste of bycause ye shall se that Tyndale hathe not yet so gayly answered yt as to make me ashamed to laye yt forth agayne For yf he could brynge out one texte so good for hym as that is for vs that is to saye that lyke as my brethern fynde out that texte by whyche Cryste byddeth all his apostles go preache and teache hys gospell so yf Tyndale or any of hys brethern couldâ— fynde out any texte in whyche Cryste hadde boden any of them go wryte hys gospell lorde god how solemnely Tyndale wolde set yt out to the shewe And where as he now maketh lytle a do of Crystes word byddyng them
condempne the chyrche refuseth to here byleue and obaye the chyrche ergo Tyndale is to be taken as an hethen man and an heretyke Thys syllogysme is myne And thys syllogysme yf Tyndale wolde fayne wyt in what fygure it is made he shall fynde it in the fyrst fygure the thyrd mode sauyng that the mynor caryeth his profe with hym whych wold ellys in the same fygure and the same mode haue made another syllogysme Now knytteth he vp all thys gere wyth another syllogysme of hys owne makynge And in what fygure he maketh that lette hym tell that can for surely that can I not These are hys wordes Tyndale Crystes dyscyples taughte Crystes doctryne consermyng it with myracles that it myghte be knowen for goddes and not the yrs. And euyn so muste the chyrche that I wyll byleue shew a myracle or brynge autentyke scrypture that is come from the apostles that confyrâ—â—d it with myracles More Now maye I be bolde to make the conclusyon of hys argument for hym For syth he goeth aboute in hys boke to teche not hym selfe but other that shall reade hys boke hys conclusyoÌ„ can be nother but that no man sholde byleue any chyrche wythout myracle or autentyke scrypture wherof the cause is bycause he wyll not otherwyse byleue any Let hym put that in fygure when he can and set there to the cause that moueth hym therto to byleue no chyrch wythout scrypture or myracle and yet wyll all togyther wyth .xvi. syllogysmes brynge hym shorte home For when he sayth that Crystes dyscyples taught his doctryne confyrmynge it wyth miracles and so must the chirch that he wyll byleue or ellys brynge autentyque scryptureâ— I saye that he muste proue the thynge that he so often sayth neuer proueth nor neuer can that is that the apostles proued euery poynt by a specyall miracle whych poynt I haue reproued byfore and yet I aske hym now agayne what miracle wrought the apostles for euery poynte of they re doctryne in theyr letter that I spake of mencyoned in the .xv. chapiter of the Actes or where is yt wryten that they wrought any one for them all I saye also that the catholyque chirch bryngeth miracles for theyr doctryne as the apostles dyd for theyres in that that god ceaceth no yere to worke miracles in his catholyque chyrche many and wonderfull bothe for hys holy men quykke and dede and for the doctryne that these heretykes unpugne as images relyques pylgrymages and the blessed sacrament of the auter And these so many in so many places that these heretykes them self can not denye yt but are shamefully dreuen to saye lyke the Iewes that yt is the deuyll that doth them I say therfore farther the Tyndale doth but mokke trifle when he sayeth he wyll byleue no chirch without miracle or auteÌ„tike scripture For he refuseth to byleue the chirch though it bryng both twayne For yf we bryng auteÌ„tyque scripture he wyll not let to say that it is not autentique as he playeth by the Machabees his master be saynt I amys pystle If he denye not then wyll he saye that the chirche vnderstandeth yt wronge so that the chyrch hath nede to brynge myracles to proue hym that the scrypture is the scrypture and that they all to gether vnderstande yt better then he alone as well as that the chyrch is the chirch And yet when the catholyque chirch bryngeth miracles wrought by god in yt for yt and the plentuously no chirche any one but yt then sayth Tyndale that they be all wrought by the deuyll And thus ye may se when he hath all sayde he neyther regardeth miracle nor scripture neyther but mokketh both twayne Now haue ye herd all that I fynde Tyndale answere agaynst suche thynges as I layed byfore in my dialoge to proue that all thynge necessary is not wryten in scrypture And then what profe he caÌ„ make for hys owne parte to pue that all is wryten ye haue herd all redy wherin how lytle pyth there is euery chylde maye perceyue And then may ye surely reken that syth thys is hys laste boke and the place in whyche he maketh a specyall tytle for the mater he bryngeth in all the beste that he caÌ„ fynde And yf he fynde any thynge ellyswhere wryten by his mayster or hym selfe or any other of hys felowes for that purpose whych he leueth out here ye may be faste and sure he seeth wellâ— he sholde haue but shame to brynge yt in As the wordes of Criste Insâ—â—â—â—te scripturâ—â— quoniam iâ—sâ— testimonium â—â—hibeÌ„t de me Loke you in that scriptures for they bere witnesse of me which thyng no man denyeth but we deny them that nothyng witnesseth Cryste ellys but the scrypture alone For our sauyour hym selfe whyche sayde those wordes sayde that saynte IohnÌ„ also bare wytnesse of hym bysyde the scrypture that hys father bare wytnesse of hym bysyde the scrypture and that hys owne workes bare wytnesse of hym bysyde the scrypture and that the holy goost at hys commynge bare wytnesse of hym bysyde the scrypture and hys apostles as hym selfe sayd they shold bare wytnesse of hym besyde the scrypture And now that all euer they all witnessed of Cristes wyll to be necessaryly byleued or dâ—ne is synnys those wordes of Cryste spoken by his apostles wryten in the scripture this seeth Tyndale well that he must proue vs by scripture and not bynde vs onely to the scripture by those wordes of Criste Serche you yâ— scrypture whyche were spoken of Cryste byfore all the new scrypture and sholde serue to strayne vs to proue all thynge by the olde scrypture to byleue nothyng farther then we fynde writen in the olde testament And therfore Tyndale hadde yet some witte when he lefte those wordes oute And lyke wyse he saw that yt hadde not ben to purpose to brynge in those wordes whyche some of that secte bryng forth full solemnely that ys to wyt the wordes of saynt IohnÌ„ in the Apocalyps where he sayth If any man any thynge sette to these thynges god shall putte vppon hym the plages wryteÌ„ in thys boke And also yf any man any thyn â— my nyshe of the wordes of the bokes of thys prophecye god shall take from hym hys parte of the boke of lyfe and of the holy cytye and of those thynges that are wryten in this boke By whyche wordes he meaneth not that no man shall neuer after be so hardy to wryte any prophecye yf euer it please god any other thynge to reucle And mych lesse he meaneth to put god to sylence that he shall neuer any other thynge reuele yf hym lyste nor sayth not that god hath shewed hym that he neuer wyll But he gyueth a charge thâ—t men vse dylygence and treuth in the wrytynge out of hys owne And mych lyke charge all be it not of lyke authoryte haue other wryters gyuen for theyr owne bookes as it is to se in the ende of the cronycle of
whyche she hadde ben accustomed no daye myssynge to do seruyce from whyche she well knewe that holy sacryfyce to be dyspensed by whyche the oblygacyon that made agaynst vs was cancelled and by whyche was led as a captyue in triumphe that ennemy of ours that kepeth a rekenynge of our synnes and sekynge what he myght obiecte coulde in hym nothynge fynde in whom we haue had the vyctoryâ— who can shed hym agayne an innocent blood for hys who can restore hym agayne the raunson that he redeined vs wyth To the sacrament of whych raunson of ours thyne hand mayde hath bouÌ„de her soule with the bonde of fayth Let no man pull her froÌ„ thy proteccyoÌ„ Let neyther the lyon nor the dragon neyther byforce nor by false sleyght steppe in betwene her and the. She shall not answere that she oweth the naught lest she be therin conuynced and cast and that therby her suttle accuser get her But she shall answere that her dettes be forgyueÌ„ her whom no man is able to paye that he payed for vs when he owed naught for hym selfe In peace mote she be therfore and her husbonde to a fore whom and after whom she neuer maryed non whom she lyke a seruaunt obeyd bryngynge frute to the thorow her pacyent sufferaunce that she myght therby wynne hym to the to Inspyre good lorde my god inspyre thy seruauntes my bretherne thy chyldren my lordes whom both wyth worde and herte and wrytynge I serue that as many as rede thys may remember at thyn aulter thy seruaunt Monica with Patricius somtyme her husbande by whose flesh thou haste brought me into thys lyfe I can not tell howe Make them remember wyth a deuoute assercion them that were in thys transytory lyfe my father and mother vnder the my father and my mother the catholyke chyrche where my syster and brother and in the eternall Hierusalem shall be my neyghbours and cytesens whyche Hierusalem thy people from theyr goynge forth tyll theyr commyng home in all theyr pylgrymag longeth for and sygheth Good lord graunte thys that the thynge whych was the laste that euer she desyred of me she may the more plentuously obteyneâ— by the prayours of many mo The olde holy doctour saynte Chrysostome in his home lye wherin he sheweth that almes dede masses and diriges greatly profyte them that are dede among many other thynges wryteth in thys wyse It was not for naughte ordeyned by thapostles that in the dredfull mysteryes of the masse sholde commemoracyon be made for them that be dede For thapostles knewe that thereby cometh to the soules great auauntage and profyte For when all the people standeth to gether holdynge vppe theyr handes and the preste fulfyllâ—th hys obseruaunce and that dredfull sacrifyce set forth how can yt be but that then praynge for the soules â—e shall obteyne Now se you very playne good cristen readers that of the eldeste and the very beste that euer haue wryten vppon the scrypture of god in Crystes chirche and whyche bene holy sayntes in heuen and suche as sufferd persecucyon for goddes sake do testyfye for our parte that the thynges whych the catholyke chirche vnyuersally â—yleueth and vseth are nothynge to be douted of but to be byleued and vsed whyther they be founden in scrypture or not And ye se that they saye that the apostles taught and delyuered to the chyrche dyuerse thynges by mouth bysyde all that they wrote whyche thyng saynt Poule sayth also hym self and yet bysyde that we se that of his wrytynge there is parte soste ye se also that some suche thynges as Tyndale sayeth that the popes haue oflate fayned them selfe for theyr lucre as the masse and the paynes of purgatory both saynte Austayne and saynte Chrysostome and other holy sayntes saye that the thynges were byleued vsed and taught by the apostles them selfe 〈◊〉 as for the olde holy doctours ye se howe farre they 〈◊〉 Tyndale and therfore of Tyndale or theym byleue whom ye lyke â—este for me and consyder well wyth your selfe wyth whyther of those two were surer to sende your soules yet is there as old as any that I haue rehersed yet saynt Polycarpus the dyscyple of saynte IohnÌ„ whyche wrote a boke of the tradycyons geuen vnto the chyrche by the apostles whyche wolde playnely haue proued Tyndale a fole and a lyar both yf the boke hadde not ben loste And vndoutely god wolde neuer haue sufferd yt to be loste yf he coulde not haue kepte hys tradycyons without wrytynge How be yt what nede we better or elder then as I byfore haue sayde the authoryte of saynte IohnÌ„ hym selfe in hys laste chapyter of the gospell Many thynges were done that are not writen in this boke or of saynt Poule wrytyng hym selfe to the Corynthyes All other thynges I wyll ordeyne when I come my selfe and to the Thessalonycenses kepe you my preceptes or institucyons whych I haue geuen you eyther by worde or by my pystle By whych wordes yt appereth well that he had wryten vnto them byfore that then was holy scrypture and yet hadde â—en yf yt hadde ben kepte and preserued and was not wythout good thynges therin and necessarye wherof parte may be suche thynges as the heretykes now do barke at bycause the pystle is loste But god is not loste that preserueth styll the mater though he lette go the letter Saynte Poule also to Timothe wryteth of such vnwryten tradycyons well and playnely in his secunde pystle in these wordes Thou therfore my son Timothe be comforted in the grace that is Cryste Iesu and those thynges that thou haste herd of me by many wytnesses commyte theym vnto faythfull men such as shal be mete to teche them forth to other men Those wordes of saynt Poule do very playnely shew that some thynges there were whyche saynt Poule taught Timothe and that in presence of certayne good vertues wytnesse and whyche thynges were as saynt Ambrose sayth secrete mysteries whych thynges he there coÌ„maunded Timothe to commytte also to other faythfull men suche as shold be able and mete to teche to th entent that they myght teche the same thynges farther and whiche be some of such thynges as these heretyques now barke at that are comen fro mouth to mouth and from hande to hande from the apostles dayes vnto our owne It is a myche lesse thynge also to byleue our selfe to be bounden to do a thynge of necessyte wythout authoryte of scrypture then to thynke our selfe wythoute scrypture vnbounden and in no necessyte to do the thynge whyche we fynde commaunded in scrypture But we fynde commaunded in scrypture fyrst by the law of nature and after in the law wryten the olde law wyth a cause annexed for vyolatyng of nature and after agayne by the apostles as I haue rehersed in the new law the .xv. of the actes that men sholde abstayne from strangled and from bloode of whyche coÌ„maundement in scrypture we se no dyscharge but the custome of the catholyke chyrch yet hath Tyndale
¶ The cōfutacyon of Tyndales answere made by syr Thomas More knyght lorde chaūcellour of Englonde ¶ Prentyd at London By wyllyam Rastell 1532 CVM PRIV 〈…〉 ¶ The preface to the crysten reader OUr lorde sende vs nowe some yeres as plentuouse of good corne as we haue hadde some yeres of late plentuouse of euyll bokes For they haue growen so faste and sprongen vppe so thykke full of pestylent errours and pernyciouse he resyes that they haue enfected and kylled I fere me mo sely symple soules thē the famyne of the dere yeres haue destroyed bodyes And surely no lytle cause there is to drede that the great haboundaunce and plentye of the tone is no lytle cause and occasyon of the great derth and scarcite of the tother For syth that our lorde of his especyall prouydence vseth temporally to punyshe the hole people for the synnys of some parte to cōpell the good folke to forbere abhorre the noughty wherby they maye brynge them to amendement and auoyd them selfe the cōtagyō of theyr cōpanye wysdome were it for vs to perceyue y◠lyke as folke beginne now to delyte in fedyng theyr soules of the venemouse caryn of those poysened heresyes of whyche maye well be veryfyed the wordes of holy wryt 4. Regum 4. deth is in the pot our lorde lykewyse agaynwarde to reuenge yt wythall begynneth to wythdraw hys gracyouse hande from the frutes of the erth mynyshynge the fertylyte both in corne and catell and bryngynge all in derth myche more then men can remedy or fully fynde out the cause And yet bysyde thys somwhere he sendeth warre sykenesse and mortalyte to punyshe in the fleshe that odyouse and hatefull synne of the soule that spoyleth the frute from all maner of vertues I meane vnbylyefe false fayth and infydelyte and to tell you all at ones in playne englyshe heresye And I say that god nowe bygynneth For I fere me surely that excepte folke begynne to reforme that fawte the soner god shall not fayle in suche wyse to go forwarde that we shall well perceyue and fele by thencreace of our greyfe that all this gere hytherto is but a begynning yet The prophete Hely as it is wryten in the thyrde boke of kynges for the infydelyte and idolatry that then was vsed in Israell by his hartye prayour made vnto god kepte that whole cuntre frō rayne by the space of .iii. yeres and a halfe not of euyll wyll or malyce but of deuocyon and pytye by the payne pynchynge of the bodyes to compell men to remember they re soules whyche ellys were in parell of peryshynge by false idolatrye Nowe all be yt that these bolde shamelesse heretyques haue of longe whyle neyther letted nor ceaced falsely to insymulate and accuse the chyrche of god callynge all good crysten people idolatres for honourynge of sayntes and reuerēt byhauour vsed at theyr images yet that haue they done so farre agaynste theyr owne conscyence by whyche them selfe well wote that the chirche vseth to sayntes and ymages none honour but ordinate not honouryng images but for the sayntes sake nor sayntes but for the sake of god neyther image as saynte nor saynt as god this knoweth I say Tyndale hym selfe so well and thereby so farre hath rayled agaynste his owne conscyence that nowe at the laste in his answere to my boke he retreateth so farre bakke that he reuoketh almoste all that euer he sayde byfore is fayne now to graunte that cristen men may haue images knele byfore them to as ye shall hereafter se when we shall come to the place But we on the tother syde saye playnely vnto them that the thynges wherwyth they corrupte the worlde are of infydelyte and faythlesse idolatrye the very moste cursed kynde The chyefe euyll in an idole was that yt bare the name of god eyther yt selfe or the deuyll that yt represented and beyng so reputed and wurshyped for god robbed the reuerence and deuoute honour fro god Now when Tyndale calleth his heresyes by the name of fayth and maketh men serue the deuyll whyle they wene to serue god what abomynable idolatrye is this If yt be idolatry to put truste in the deuyll serue the deuyll wyth fayth yt is worse then idolatrye to make men wene they serue god wyth fayth whyle they dyspyte hym wyth a false bylyefe And yf it be very infydelyte to do as the Turkes do byd men byleue in Machometes alchoran yt is more infydelyte to do as Tyndale hath done purposely mysse translate Crystes holy gospell to sette forth heresyes as euyll as the Alchorane And yf it be idolatry to do as the paynēs dyd make an idole god yt muste nedes be myche worse idolatry to do as these heretykes do that call god the cause of all euyll and therby make god not a vayne idole but a very deuyll And what can be worse kynd of infydelyte◠then to make bokes of heresyes and call them the ryght fayth And what more abomynable infydelyte then to abuse the scrypture of god to the colour of theyr false bylyef◠And what can be a worse bylyefe then to byleue that the sacramentes that god hath ordeyned by his holy spyryte be but inuencyons of man or as Tyndale sayth of confessyon but inuencyon of the deuyll And what can be worse bylyefe then to byleue that goddes word is not to be byleued but yf yt be put in wrytyng Or what can be a worse bylyefe then to byleue y◠mennis good wurkes be they neuer so well done be yet nothyng worthe nor the man neuer the better for them nor no rewarde for them commyng towarde man in heuen Or what can be a wurse bylyefe thē to byleue that a man doth wronge to pray for hys fathers soule Or what can be a wurse bylyefe then to byleue that a man may as sleyghtely regarde whytson sonday◠as hokke monday and as boldely eate fleshe on good frydaye as on shroue tuysdaye And what can be a wurse bylyefe then to byleue that none other synne can dampne a man but onely lakke of bylyefe And yf yt be idolatrye to do as the Paynems do geue wurshyppe vnto an idole how myche is yt wurse then idolatrye to do as Tyndale doth forbed vs to geue wurshippe to the very bodye and blessed blood of god in the holy sacrament of the auter These pestylent infydelytees and these abominable kyndes of idolatryes farre excede◠and passe and incomparbly more offende the maieste of our lorde god then all the secretynge vppe of Beel and Baal and Belzabub and all the deuyls in hell wherfore lyke as in other places where these heresyes haue taken deper rote ben more sprede abrode god hath taken more depe and sore vengeaunce not onely by derth and deth but also by batayle and sworde so is yt to be fered that for the receypte of these pestylent bokes our lorde sendeth vs some lakke of corne and catayle for a begynnynge and wyll not fayle
many thousande bodyes and by synfull errours abomynable heresyes many mo thousand soules haue now a few malycyouse myscheuouse persons broughte into this realme and labour and enforce them selfe in all that euer they may to corrupte and infecte all good and vertuouse people Nor no man is there any where lyuynge more studyouse and besye to do hym selfe good theÌ„ those enuyouse wreches be laboryouse and feruent to do all other men harme in bodye substaunce and soule There be fledde out of this realme for heresy a few vngracyouse folke what maner folke theyr wrytynge and they re lyuynge sheweth For the captayns be prestes monkes and freres that neyther say masse nor matens nor neuer come at â—hirche takyng styll of fayth and full of false heresyes wold seme Crystes apostles play the deuels dysours spekyng mych of the spirite with no more deuocyon then dogges dyuerse of them prestes monkes and freres not let to wedde harlottes and then call theym wyues And when they haue ones vyleyned the sacrament of matirmony then wold they make vs violate the sacrament of the auter to tellynge vs as Tyndale doth that yt is synne to do the blessed body of Cryste in that sacrament any honour or reuerence but onely take yt for a token Now when theyr chyefe captayns be suche we shall not nede to dowte of what sorte we shall reken the remanaunt These felowes that naught had here and therfore noughte caryed hense nor nothynge fyndynge there to lyue vppon be yet sustayned and mayntened wyth monye sent them by some euyll dysposed persones oute of this realme thyther and that for none other entent but to make them sytte seke oute heresyes and spedyly send them hyther whych bokes all be yt that they neyther can be there preÌ„ted without great coste nor here solde wythout great adueÌ„ture parell yet ceace they not with mony sent froÌ„ heÌ„se to preÌ„te theÌ„ there send them hyther by the whole fattes full at ones and in some places lokynge for no lucre caste them abrode by nyght so great a pestylent pleasure haue some dyuelysh people caught wyth the labour trauayle coste charge varell harme and hurte of them selfe to seke the dâ—â—â—â—â—cciâ—n of other As the deuyll hath â—â—edely delyght to bygyle good people and brynge theyr soules into euerlâ—stynge torment wythout any maner wynnynge and not wythout fyâ—all encreace of his owne eternall payne so do these heretykes the deuyls dyscyples bysette theyr whole pleasure and study to theyr owne fynall damnacyon in the tâ—aynynge of symple soules to hell by theyr dyuelyshe hereâ—yes Myche they crye oute agaynste the clergye sayeng that the prestes loue to reygne in mennys conscyence But they them self shew that when they haue made the deuyll reygne in a mannys conscyence so farre forth that he hath no conscyence to eate fleshe on good frydaye nor to caste Crystes crosse in the â—anell nor to throw his blessed bodye out of the pyx then after that lykewyse as the false preachers yâ— were Iewes labored to haue all crysten people circumcysed to th entent that as saynte Poule sayth they myghte glorye in theyr fleshe so be these arche heretyques very glad great glorye they take when they may here that any man is brought to burnynge thorow theyr bokes Then they boste that they haue done a great maystrye and say they haue made a martyr when theyr poysened bokes haue kylled the crysteÌ„ man both in bodye and soule Thus reioyced Tyndale in the deth Hytton of whose burnyng he bosteth in his answere to my dyaloge where he wryteth therof that where I sayde that I hadde neuer fouÌ„den nor herd of any of them but that he wolde forswere to saue his lyfe I hadde herd he sayeth of syr Thomas Hytton whom the bishoppes of Rochester and CaÌ„terbury sâ—ew at maydstone Of thys man they so hyghly reioyce that they haue as I sayde sette his name in the caleÌ„dar byfore a boke of theyr englyshe prayours by the name of saynt Thomas the martyr in the vigyle of the blessed apostle saynte Mathye the xxiii daye of February and haue putte out for hym the holy doctour and gloryouse martyr saynte Polycarpus the blessed byshoppe and the dyscyple of saynte IohnÌ„ theuangelyste for that was his day in dede and so is it in some calendars marked Now to th entent that ye may somwhatse what good crysten fayth syr Thomas Hytton was of this newe saynte of Tyndales canonysacyon in whose burnynge Tyndale so gayly gloryeth and whyche hath his hoâ—y daye so now appoynted to hym that saynte Poâ—â—â—arpus muste geue hym place in the caleÌ„dar I shall some what shew you what holsome heresyes this holy martyr helde Fyrste ye shall vnderstande that he was a preste and fallynge to Luthers secte and after that to the secte of frere Huskyn and zwynglius caste of matens and masse and all dyuyne seruyce and so bycame an apostle sent to an fro bytwene our englyshe heretyques beyonde the see and suche as were here at home Now happed it so that after he had visyted here his holy congregacyons in dyuers corners and luskes lanes and comforted them in the lorde to stande styffe wyth the deuyll in theyr errours and heresyes as he was goynge bakke agayne at graues ende god consyderyng the greate labour that he had taken all redy and determynyng to brynge his bysynes to his well deserued ende gaue hym sodaynly such a fauour and so greate a grace in the vysage that euery maÌ„ that behelde hym toke hym for a thefe For where as there had ben certayne lynen clothes pylfred away that were hangyng on an hedge and syr Thomas Hytton was walkyng not far of suspycyously in the medytacyon of hys heresyes the people dowtynge that the beggerly knaue had stolen yâ— clowtes fell in questyon wyth hym and serched hym and so fownde they certayne letters secretely conuayed in hys cote wryten from euangelycall brethern here vnto the euaÌ„gelycall heretykes beyonde the see And vppon those letters founden he was wyth hys letters brought before the moste reuerende father in god the archebyshoppe of Canterbury and afterwarde as well by hys lordshyppe as by the reuerende father the bysshoppe of Rochester examyned after for hys abomynable heresyes delyuered to the secular handes and burned In hys examynacyon he refused to be sworne to saye trouth affermynge that neyther bysshoppe nor 〈◊〉 hadde authoryte to coÌ„pell hym to swere whych poynte all though it be a false heresye yet is it lykely that he refused the othe rather of frowardnesse then of any respecte that he hadde eyther in kepynge or brekynge For neuer coulde I fynde heretyke yet that any conscyence had in any othe And of trouth Tindale in his answere to my dyaloge techeth them that they maye breke theyr othe and be forsworen wythout any scruple at all Hys father and hys mother he wolde not be aknowen of what they were they were some so good folke of lykelyhed that he coulde not
and haue accursed Tyndale to yf all the myghte haue saued hys lyfe And so he gaue counsayle vnto one Iamys that was for heresye in pryson wyth hym For as Iamys hath synnys confessed Tewkesbery sayed vnto hym saue you your self and abiure But as for me bycause I haue abiured byfore there is no remedy wyth me buth deth By whych wordes yf he had not ben in dyspayre of lyfe it well appereth he wold wyth good wyll haue ones abiured and ones periured agayne And yet at hys examynacyon he denyed that euer he hadde holden any such opynyons as he was abiured for notwythstandyng that there were at hys axamynacyon some persons present of myche honestye and wourshyppe two that had ben present at hys abiuracyon byfore to whyche also hys owne hand was subscrybed And afterwarde beynge ferther examyned vppon the same some he denyed some he defended agayne Amonge other thynges he sayed that he vsed to praye to sayntes that he byleued them to be goddes frendes and that theyr prayours were profytable to vs and well done to praye to them wheruppon I sayd vnto hym my selfe that I was glad to se hym in that poynte yet amended and I shewed hym as the trouth was in dede that I amys helde the contrarye and that he hadde so greate a truste in Tewkesbery that I dowted not but when he sholde here that tewkesbery hadde reuoked that poynt he wolde reuoke it to As sone as Tewkesbery herd that he went from it agayne by and by that so farre that fynally he wolde not agre that before the day of dome there were eyther any saynt in heuen or soule in purgatory or in hell eyther Nor the ryght fayth in the sacrament of the aulter wolde he not confesse in no wyse For which thynges and dyuers other horryble heresyâ—s he was delyuered at laste vnto the secular handes and burned as there was neuer wretche I wene better worthy yet is there one thynge notable and well declarynge what good and cherytable mynde the maÌ„ dyed in Forâ— after that he was delyuered vnto the secular handes neyther whyle he was in pryson nor at the tyme of hys deth wolde he by his wyll be aknowen of any of hys heresyes vnto any man that asked hym any questyon but couered and hyd them by all the meanes he coulde make labored to make euery man wene that he had neuer holden any such opynyon And by thys dealynge euery man maye se that he rought not so mych for his heresyes nor toke them not in his owne mynde for suche thynges as he so gretely forced whyther they went forwarde or bakwarde as he wolde fayne leue an opynyon amonge the people that hys iudges had borne hym wrong in hande condempned hym for such heresyes as he neuer helde And what conscyence he had that dyed in that mynde there is no good man dowteth Now was his examynacyoÌ„ not secrete but folke inough therat bothe spyrytuall and temporall and of eyther parte ryght wourshypfull so that hys malycyouse mynde can in that poynte lytell take effecte And yet dyd the same Iamys also confesse afterwarde that Tewkesbery had redde vnto hym wyclyffes wykkeâ— agaynst the blessed sacrament And ouer that was there founden about hym by the shyryffes offycers in the pryson a boke of heresye of hys owne hande wrytynge that is to wyt the boke of Marten Luther wherin he teacheth men vnder the name of crysten lybertye to roÌ„ne in to the deuyls boâ—dage And in hys howse was founden Tyndales boke of obedyence whyche he well alowed and hys wykked boke also of the wykked mammona sayenge at hys examynacyon that all the heresyes therin were good and crysten fayth beynge in dede as full of false heresyes and as frantike as euer heretyke made any syth Cryst was borne And yet all thys notwythstandynge when he was in the shyryffes warde and at the tyme of hys deth he wolde not speke of hys heresyes any thynge nor say that he had helde and wolde holde thys poynt and that but handeled hym selfe as couertly as he coude to make the people wene that he hadde holden no maner opynyon at all nor neuer had I thynke yf Tyndales vngracyouse bokes had neuer come in hys hande For whych the pore wreche lyeth now in hell and cryeth out on hym and Tyndale yf he do not ameÌ„de in tyme he is lyke to fynde hym when they come togyther an hote fyrebronde burnynge at hys bakke that all the water in the worlde wyll neuer be able to quenche Another is there also whom hys vnhappy bokes haue brought vnto the fyre Tho. Bylney thas was before abiured whyche was the man of whom wythout name I spake so mych in my dyaloge whyche beyng conuycte by .xx. wytnesses and aboue dyd yet stykke styll in hys denyall sayd they were all sorsworen and had vtterly belyed hym But god whyche is very trouth and bryngeth at last alwaye the trouth to lyght wolde not suffer suche obstynate vntrouth at length to passe vnpunyshed but of hys endles mercy brought hys body to deth gaue hym yet the grace to turne and saue hys soule For so was it that after dyuerse sermons whyche he had after hys abiuracyon and agaynst the prohybycyon gyuen hym vppon hys abiuracyon made in sundry secrete corners and some also openly wherof the bysshoppe yet bycause he herde of none heresye therin had forborne to lay the dysobedyence to hys charge he went vnto Nor wych where he had enfected dyuers of the cytye before And beynge there secretely kepte by a certayne space had in the whyle resorte vnto an ancresse and there began secretely to sow hys cocle and brought vnto her dyuers of Tyndales bokes and was there taken in the doynge and the bokes after founden about a nother man that was conuayenge them thense and these thynges who so herde the hole processe cam in suche wyse to passe that he coulde nothynge dowbte but that it came to lyght by the very prouysyon of god when he came to examynacyon he waxed styffe and stoborne in hys opynyons But yet was god so good and gracyous lorde vnto hym that he was fynally so fully conuerted vnto Cryste and hys trew catholyke fayth that not onely at the fyre as well in wordes as wrytynge but also many dayes before he had reuoked abhorred and detested suche heresyes as he before had holden whych notwythstandyng there lakked not some that were very sory for it of whom some sayd and some wrote out of Norwych to LondoÌ„ that he had not reuoked his heresyes at all but styll had abyden by them And suche as were not ashamed thus to saye and wryte beynge afterwarde examyned theruppon saw the coÌ„trary so playnely proued in theyr faces by suche as at hys execucyon stode by hym whyle he redde hys reuocacyoÌ„ hym selfe that they had in conclusyon nothynge elles to sayâ— but that he redde hys reuocacyon so softely that they coude not here it
How be it they confessed that he loked vppon a byll and redde it but they sayd that they coude not tell whyther it were the byll of hys reuocacyon or not And yet rehersed they them selfe certayne thynges spoken by hym to the peple at the fyre wherby they coude not but perceyue well that he reuoked hys errours albe it that some of them watered his wordes wyth addycyons of theyr owne as it was well proued before them They coude not also deny but that forthwyth vppon hys iudgement and hys degradacyon he kneled downe before the bysshoppes chauncellour in the presence of all the people and humbly bysought hym of absolucyon from the sentence of excoÌ„munycacyon and wyth his iudgement helde hym selfe well content and knowleged that he had well deserued to suffer the deth that he then wyste he sholde They coude not say nay but that vppon thys hys humble request and prayour he was there in presence of all the people assoyled byfore that he was caryed out of the court whyche them selfe well wyste wolde neuer haue ben but yf he hadde reuoked yet was there a nother thynge that they coude not deny For all be it they sayd they were not therat yet they hadde herd it in suche wyse that as they sayd they byleued it to be trew and that thynge was suche as it selfe alone muste nedes make them sure that he had reuoked hys heresyes The thynge was thys He labored and made greate instaunce certayne dayes after hys iudgement that he myght be suffred to receyue the blessed body of Cryste in forme of brede wherin the chauncellour made a whyle greate stykkynge and dyffycultye to the entent that he wolde the better and more clerely perceyue what deuocyon the man hadde there to And fynally perceyuynge hym to be of a trew perfyte fayth and hys desyre to procede of a feruent mynde it was agreed and graunted And theruppon was he howseled in so trew perfyte fayth so grete deuocyon that euery good crysten man hath greate cause to reioyce therin And when hys confessour in the ende of the masse which Bylney full deuowtely herde vppon hys knees brought vnto hym the body of Cryste vppon the paten of yâ— chalyce wyth very good and godly exhortacyon vsed vnto hym that excepte he were in herte as he was in worde and outwarde semblaunce he shold ellys forbere to receyue that blessed body syth he sholde then vndowtedly receyue it on hys owne daÌ„nacyon it wold haue gladded any good crysten herte to haue herd hys faythfull crysten answere as they reporte testyfye that were at that tyme by Moreouer where as in the presence of that holy sacrament holden yet vppon the paten in the prestes handes Bylney byfore he receyued it sayd yâ— colecte Domine Iesu Christe when he came at these wordes ecclesiae tuae pacem concordiam he dyuers tymes repeted those wordes wyth tunsyons knok kynges vppon hys breste and there vnto god confessed and asked his mercy that he had so greuousely erred in yâ— point and so sore offended hym in coâ—tempnynge hys chyrche And no meruayle was it though he had a specyall remorse of that artycle For the contempnyng of Crystes catholyke knowen chyrche and the framynge of a secrete vnknowen chyrche that he lerned of Luther and Tyndale was the very poynt that broughte hym vnto all hys myschyefe as the very fundacyon wheruppon all other heresyes are byelded And therfore as the goodnesse of god gaue hym grace to cast vnto the deuyll all hys other errours so gaue he hym hys specyall grace to haue of that heresye that was and is the grounde of all the remanaunt moste especyall repentaunce and remorse wherby we may very well hope and trust that our lorde whose hygh goodnesse gaue hym suche grace so fully to repente and reuoke hys heresyes that he wyth glad herte was content to suffer the fyre for the punysshement of hys offence hath of hys infynyte mercy taken and accepted that payne for so farre as he wyll exacte of the pore mannes purgatory and settyng the merytes of hys owne paynefull passyon therunto hath forthwyth from the fyre taken hys blessed soule to heuen where he now prayeth incessauntly for the repentaunce and amendement of all suche as haue ben by hys meanes whyle he lyued into any suche errours induced or confyrmed And I fermely truste that goddys grace that effecte wyth that holy mannes prayour wyll worke and so I praye god it maye But thus ye se the Tyndale hath no greate cause to glory of hys martyrs when that theyr lyuyng is openly nought theyr opynyons suche as hym selfe wyll abhorre they redy to abiure agayne yf it myghte saue theyr lyfe theyr sectes so dysperate that eyther they dare not at the fyre set forth theyr opynyons for shame or ellys of malyce do dyssymule them to bryng the people in a false opynyon of theyr iudges to wene that they iudged wronge And Bylney that had lernynge and had ben accustumed in morall vertues was by god reuoked from Tyndals heresye ere he dyed and that of lykelyhed the rather bycause god wolde not haue all his good workes loste And yet gloryeth Tindale vngraciously in theyr destruccyon râ—kenynge that theyr paynefull deth doth grete worshyppe to hys bokes whyche are of suche sorte that neuer were there worse nor more abomynable wryten And yet hys bokes beynge suche some folke there are that wyth suche folysshe fauour and suche blynde affeccyon rede them that theyr taste enfected wyth the feuer of heresyes they not onely can not decerne the thynge that they rede whyche yf they coude they were in good waye towarde amendement but are also dyscontent and angry wyth any man that wolde helpe them to perceyue it and fayne wolde they haue them rather byleued then answered Of whyche sorte some haue asked what haue I to do to medle wyth the mater sayenge that beynge laye man I sholde leue it to the clergye to wryte in and not hauynge professed the study of holy scrypture I sholde leue the mater hole vnto deuynes Surely fyrst as touchyng lernyng yf that these maters were very dowtfull and thynges of greate questyon or hadde bene so connyngly handeled by Tyndale and hys felowes as they myghte seme therby maters of greate dowte and questyon then wolde I peraduenture lette them alone my selfe to be debated by men of more erudycyon and lernynge But now the maters beynge so playne euydent and clere and by the hole chyrche of Cryste so clerely put out of questyon that it is playne and open heresye erenestly to brynge them in questyon I neuer purpose beynge in my ryght mynde and a trew crysten man to gyue an heretyque so myche authoryte as to â—eken my selfe vnable in so playne poyntes of the crysten fayth to answere hym namely syth I haue gone somwhat to scole my selfe and bestowed as many yeres in studye and vnder as connynge maysters as some of them haue and that
trew catholyke fayth with the grete fall ruyne at length of many scysmatycall sectes whose fall vndowtedly the remanaunt wyll in conclusyon folow wyth the playne open wrathe of god shewed vppon theyr false prophetes as it fell vppon the prophetes bothe of Beale and Baall now thys yere vppon zuinglius hym selfe â— that fyrst brought in to Swycherland the abomynable heresye agaynst the blessed sacrament of the awter and was as I say by the hande of god thys yere slayne in playne batayle agaynste the catholikes with many a thousand of his wreched secte beyng in nomber to the catholykes thre agaynst one and as prowdely and wyth as malycyâ—use purpose inuadynge them as euer dyd the Egypcyans pursew the chyldren of Israell But now sayth Tyndale and frere Barns bothe that I do them wronge in that I call theyr bokes sedycyouse For they counsayle they saye the people in theyr bokes to be obedyent vnto theyr souerayns rulers all though they shold suffer wronge and how can our bokes then saye they be sedycyouse Surely to make men heretykes and then byd them be meke when heresye spryngeth as saynt Austayne sayth of pryde standeth as well wyth reason as to make a man dronke and byd hym be sober make hym starke madde byd hym be well auysed make hym a starke thefe and byd hym se he stele not How be yt besyde the sedicion that euery scysine and dyuisyon muste nedes moue and prouoke amonge any people that are of dyuerse sectis all though they were all oâ—edient vnto one prynce and cause them therby though they rebelled not agaynste his person yet to breke the peace and quiete of his cuntre and tunne in to the daynger parelle of hys lawes let vs yet ferther loke and coÌ„syder in what maner fashyon they counseyle the people to obay theyr prynces They bydde the people for a couÌ„tenaunce to be obedient But they say therwyth that the lawys preceptes of they re souerayns do nothynge bynde the subiectes in theyr conscyencys but yf the thynges by them coÌ„maundede or forbeden were before coÌ„maunded or forbeden in scrypture And all yâ— wordes of scripture wherby they be coÌ„mauÌ„ded to obay theyr gouernours wold they restrayne vnto those thynges onely that are expressede all redy wythin the corps of scrypture So that yf they can begyle the lawys preceptes of theyr souerayns vnware to other men and therby fle fro the parell of outwarde bodely ponyshemeÌ„t theyr euaÌ„gely call lybertie sholde serue theym suffycyently for dyscharge of they re conscyence and inwardely make theym in they re soules clere angelycall hypocrytys Nowe whan they falsely tell theym that they be not bounden to obaye they re gouernours lawfull commaundementes and thenne holyly counseyle theym to obay theyr vnlawfull tyranny for by that name call they the lawys what effecte wene ye they wolde that theyr aduyce sholde haue They knowe theym selfe well ynough and the maner of the people to and be not so madde I warrauÌ„te yowe but that they perceyue full well that yf they can persuade the people to belyue that they be not in theyr conscyence bounden to obay the lawes and preceptys of theyr gouernours theym selfe be no such precyouse apostles that folke wolde forbere they re awne ease or pleasure for the faynt fayned counseyle of a few false apostatas And thus ys yt sure that by they re false doctryne they must yf they be belyued brynge the people in to the secrete contempte and spyrytuall dysobedyence inwarde hatered of the lawe wherof muste after folowe the outwarde brech and theruppon outwarde ponyshement parell of rebellyon wherby the pryncys sholde be dreuen to sore effusyoÌ„ of theyr subiectes blood as hath all redy mysse happened in Almayne and of olde tyme in Englande Let vs yet consyder ferther a poynt of theyr good holy counsayle concernynge the peoples obedyence Frere Barns in hys frantyke booke byddeth the people that they sholde not rebell in no wyse But he byddeth them therwyth that for all the kynges coÌ„maundemeÌ„t they shold not suffer Tyndales false translacyon of the scrypture go out of theyr hande but rather dye then leue it Now knoweth he well that the false malycyouse maner that Tyndale hath vsed in the translatyng therofâ—as I haue proued bothe in my dyaloge and synnes agayne in thys boke and as Tyndale doth hym selfe in hys owne answere openly confesse in the tytles of penaunce and preste was done to set forth hys false heresyes wythall And therfore it appereth well that Barns wold haue the people rather dye then obay theyr prynces in puttynge away that boke that is falsely translated for the mayntenaunce of many pestylent heresyes And thus ye se how fayne he wolde glorye in the peoples blode For he woteth very well that the kynges hyghnesse wyll in no wyse nor in no wyse maye yf he wyll saue hys owne soule suffer that false translacyon in the handes of vnlerned people whyche is by an open heretyke purposely translated false to the destruccyon of so many soules Now no man dowteth I thynke but that Tindale hym selfe wolde no lesse were done for the mayntenaunce of hys false translacyon of the euangelystes then wolde hys euangelycall brother Barns but that folke sholde agaynste the kynges proclamacyons kepe styll hys bokes rather then leue them dye in the quarell for the defence of his glory where as I byfore in my dyaloge dyd say that Luthers bokes be sedycyouse as I now say that Tyndales be to mouynge people to theyr owne vndoyng to be dysobedyeÌ„t and rebellyouse to theyr souerayns in affermyng that they be not nor can not be bounden by any law made by men Tyndale answereth me for Luther that I say vutrewly and then sayth he ferther in thys wyse A crysten man is bounden to obay tyranny yf it be not a gaynste his fayth nor the law of god tyll god delyuer hym therof Now let I passe myche raylynge that he consequentely maketh vppon prynces and shall for thys tyme onely couÌ„sayle you to consyder these few wordes of hys whyche he layeth forth for a rule of peoples obedyence to theyr prynce For hys rule is that they shall obay theyr tyranny tyll god delyuer them therof And in thys poynt wyll I not be Tyndals interpretor he may meane dyuerse wayes but whych way he meaneth in dede he shall hym selfe declare at his ferther â—eysore for me thynketh he meaneth not very well sauynge that I wyll not take hym to the wurste But in the tother poynt I may be bolde to say that no good man may take hym well where he sayth that a crysten man ys bounden to obay they re pryncys tyraÌ„ny yf it be not agaynste hys fayth nor the lawe of god And yet wyll I well agre that yf these wordes were spoken of a good faithfull maÌ„nys moutheâ— and where any nede requyred yt they were very well sayed as they were when the apostles sayed we muste rather
god hartely sende that yonge man the grace to bestow hys wyt and lernynge such as it is aboute some better busynes then Tyndale mysse bestoweth it now For now is Frythys wyt and lernynge nothynge but Tyndales instrument wherby he bloweth out hys heresye Fynally after that I shall haue answered Fryth I purpose to retourne agayne vnto Tyndales boke and answere hym in euery chapyter that he hath impugned in the .iiii. bokes of my dyaloge wherin I truste to make euery chyld ê‘ceyue hys wyly folyes and false craftes wyth hys open shameles lyes put in and mengled amonge them wher wyth he fayne wolde weneth to blynde in such wyse the world that folke shold not espye the falshed foly of hys erectable heresyes I thynke that no man dowteth but that this worke both hath ben and wyll be some payne and labour to me and of trouth so I fynde it But as helpe me god I fynde all my laboure in the wrytynge not halfe so greuouse and paynefull to me as the tedyouse redynge of theyr blasphemouse heresyes that wolde god after all my labour done so that the remembraunce of theyr pestylent errours were araced out of englysshe mennes hertes and theyr abomynable bookes burned vppe myne owne were walked wyth them and the name of these matters vtterly put in oblyuyon How be it syth I se the deuyll in these dayes so stronge and these deuelysshe heresyes so sore set a broche in some vnhappy hertes that they neuer ceace in all that euer they may to sprede these bokes abrode to suche as kepe them in hukermoker secretely poysen them selfe wenynge the bokes were very good whyle they rede but theÌ„ alone and then of those euyll bokes so many dayly made by so many idle heretykes and by by sent hyther it were nede as me semeth that dyuerse wyse well lerned men sholde set theyr pennys to the boke whych though they shall not satysfye them that wyll nedes be nought yet shall they do good to suche as fall to these folke of ouersyghte wenyng that theyr new wayes were well Lucae .15 Our sauyour sayth that the chyldren of darkenes be more polytyke in theyr kynde then are the chyldren of lyght in theyr kynde And surely so semeth it now For these false faythlesse heretykes whose hertes are in the depe darke don geon of the deuyll are more wyly and more besy therwyth in settyng forth of theyr heresyes then are the faythfull lerned folke in the defence of the trouth And as the trew dyscyples of Cryst were in slumber and fell in slepe in Crystes company whyle Iudas the traytor was wakynge and watchynge aboute hys detestable treason so whyle these Iudasys watche study about the makynge of theyr vngracyouse bookes good and trew byleuynge men that were mete to answere them and that were able in wrytynge to mych more then ouermatche them yf they wolde wake and praye and take the penne in hande be now so forweryed wyth the sorowe and heuynesse to se the worlde waxe so wretched that they fall euyn in a slumber therewyth and lette these wretches alone sauynge that yet somtyme some good Peter in a good zele so smyteth of Malchus eare that god setteth it on better agayne and gyueth it grace to drawe bakke from the herkenynge of false heresyes and to gyue it selfe to the herynge of Crystes trewe catholyque fayth And somtyme agayne some good holy Poule shaketh the poysened adder into a fayre fyre that lyeng and lurkynge amonge the drye frutelesse fagottes catcheth good folke by the fyngers and so hangeth on theyr handes wyth the poysen styng of false onely fayth that they wolde wythholde them from settynge theyr handes to any good vertuouse workes But now leuynge other men to do as god shall lyke to put in theyr myndes I shall for my parte performe that I haue promysed yf god gyue me lyfe and grace therto For as for leysore shall not I truste one tyme or other lakke to suffyse for so mych for mych more to whyche when I haue as I before sayd all togyther performed I wolde in good fayth wysshe that neuer man sholde nede to rede any worde For surely the very best waye were neyther to rede thys nor theyrs but rather the people vulerned to occupye them selfe besyde theyr other busynesse in prayour good medytacyonâ— and redynge of suche englysshe bookes as moste may norysshe and encrease deuocyon Of whyche kynde is Bonauenture of the lyfe of Cryste Gerson of the folowynge of Cryste and the deuoute conteÌ„platyue booke of Scala perfectionis wyth suche other lyke then in the lernynge what may well be answered vnto heretykes The very tryacle were well losteâ— so that all venome and poyson were vtterly lost therwyth And better were it not to be syk at all theÌ„ of a grete syknesse to be very well heled And yf it myghte be prouyded that euery man sholde be so well tempered that no man sholde by dystemperauÌ„ce fall into dysease then were it better that the physycyon bestowed all hys tyme about that parte of physyke that teacheth to preserue our helthe then to wryte any worde of that parte that restoreth it But syth it can neuer be brought to passe that poysen wyll be forgoten nor that euery man shall vse hym selfe so cyrcumspectely but that eyther of ouersyghte or aduenture some shall haue nede of cure therfore it is necessary that tryacle for the tone and other medycynes for the tother be prouyded and had And therfore as I wold wyshe that theyr bookes were all gone and myne owne therwyth so syth I se well that that thynge wyll not be better it is I reken that there be tryacle redy then the poysen to tary and no tryacle for it How be it though euery shoppe were full of tryacle yet were he not wyse I wene that wolde wylfully drynke poysen fyrste to drynke tryacle after but rather caste the poysen to the deuyll and let the tryacle stande for some that sholde happe to nede it And lykewyse wolde I counsayle euery good crysten man and specyally such as are not groundely lerned to cast out the poysened draught of these heretykes bokes whych when they be dronken downe infecte the reader and corrupte the soule vnto the euerlastyng deth and therfore neyther vouchesafe to rede theyr bokes nor any thyng made agaynst them neyther but abhorre to here theyr heresyes so mych as named accordyng to the gracyouse counsayle of the blessed apostle Poule agaynst fornycacion where he wryteth vnto the Ephesyans Ephes. 5. Let not fornycacyon be so mych as named or spoken of among you And yet syth that wolde not be brought to passe that he counsayled and wold fayne haue had obserued he was fayne hym selfe to speke therof and wryte therof to arme the people agaynste it in mo placys then one as both he and other apostles and all holy doctors synnys haue ben dreuen to wryte againste heresyes yet wold fayne that
folke wolde so clere haue caste all heresyes out of remembraunce that neyther theym selfe shulde haue neded to wryte therof nor other folke to rede the parte of they re bokes And therfore as I wolde aduyse any man neither to rede these heretykes bokes nor myne but occupy theyr myndes better and standynge fermely by the catholyke faith of this xv C. yere neuer onys muse vppoÌ„ these newe fangled heresyes so vn the tother syde yf it mysse happe any man to fall in such a fonde affeccyon vayne curiouse mynde that neither parell temporall in brech of hys pryncys proclamacyon the lawes of the realine nor the parell spyrituall in hurtynge of his owne soule nor they both to gether by puttynge hym selfe in daynger to burne both here and in hell can hold his ycchynge fyngers frome they re poysened bokes then wold I couÌ„sayle hym in any wyse to rede therwith such thynges as are wrytten agaynste theym and way theym both at the leste wyse indyfferently and not to fall sodenly so dronke in the newe muste of they re neweâ—angled neweltyes that the olde holsome wyne with whych good folke haue lyued now this fyften hundred yere offend theyr dronkeÌ„ taste bycause yt is not so walow swete but drynketh more of the verder Forthermore for as mych as accordynge to the wordes of Cryst Lucae .17 It wyll none otherwyse be but that some stuÌ„blyng blokkys wyll allway be by malycyouse folke layed in good peoples way though beste were to stoppe your â—aris vtterly and gyue none herynge to any false euchauntors that wold bywych you wylyly to make you delyte in those bokes yet sith some that be playne symple may fortune to be secretly mysse lede by false wyly shrewes excepte they be well armed before I doute not by godes grace but yf they rede fyrste the thynges that are wrytten agaynste theym they shall theym selfe be able to reiecte and confouÌ„de any deuyll that wolde drawe theym to them And therfore as I am sure that euyl and vngracyouse folke shall euer fynde the meanys that suche bookes shall neuer in some corners lakke wherby good people may be deceyued and corrupted yt ys more thenne necessary that men haue agayne at hande suche bookes as may well arme them to resyste and confute them Of which kynde of good bokes all be it I knowe well there may and dowte not but there shall be many better made then myne and that some such I se alredy yet haue I not so sieyghtly seen vnto myn owne nor shoffled it vp so hastely nor let it so passe vnloked ouer by better men and better lerned also then my selfe but that I truste in god it maye amonge the better stande yet in some good stede And that it so maye to goddes honour and the profyte of some good folke I hertely byseche our lorde wythout the adspiracyon and helpe of whose especyall grace no labour of man can profyte and to whom therfore be all thanke referred whyche lyueth and regneth in eternall glorye To whych as he hath all redy brought many a blessed saynt so mote his mercy brynge with spede the soules that are in purgatory and gyue vs the here lyue in this wretched worlde ayde and helpe of grace by trewe fayth and good workes to folow them the rather by the intercessyon and prayours of all his holy sayntes that are all redy wyth hym A MEN. The preface of Tyndall wyth thâ— answere vnto the same Tyndall THe grace of our lorde the lyght of his spyryt to se and to iudgâ— trew repentaunce toward goddes law a fast fayth in the mercyfull ê“mises that are in our sauyour Cryste feruent loue toward thy neybour after then sample of Cryste and hys sayntes be with the O reder and with all that loue the trouthe and lâ—nge for the redempcion of goddys elect Amen More TIndall here begynneth wyth an holy salutacyon and so doth Luther to and so doth freâ—e huskyne to and id doth euery fonde felow of any of theyr sectys They begynne theyr pystles in suche apostolycall fashyon that a man wold wene yt were wryten from saynt Paule hym self But wolde god they wolde onys rather folow hym truly in fayth and good workes then in symulacion of lyke sancryte wyth theyr holy salutacyons For yf men coÌ„syder that where Tyndal here prayeth holy +ly for the lyghte of the spyryt to see trew repentauÌ„ce he then techeth hym selfe a sodayne sleyghte repentauÌ„ce forbedyng both confessyoÌ„ all doynge of penauÌ„ce they shall yf they be good men sett lytle by hys holy salutacyon And when they coÌ„syder that where he prayeth god sende theym a fast fayth hym selfe techeth a false fayth agaynst the sacrameÌ„tys and meneth that they shulde be fast in the same there wyll no good crysten man can hym thank for that holy prayour And where he prayeth here â—o holyly for the loue of yâ— neygh +bour yf men loke on the loue that ys vsed amonge all the maysters of that hole holy secte coÌ„syder they re lyuyngys and loke vppon frere Luther the very father of theyr hole secte and se hym ronne out of relygyon fallen to flesshe and caryn and lyue in lechery wyth a nuÌ„ne vnder name of wedloke and all the cheyfe heddys of then late monkys freres and now apostatas lyuynge wyth harlotes vnder the name of wyues he that lokyth on thys and then secth theym and theyr scolers as Tyndale here and suche other come forth and speke so holyly wolde he not wene that yt were a sorte of freres folowynge an abbote of mysrule in a Christemas game that were prykked in blankettes and theÌ„ sholde stande vp and preche vppon a stole and make a mowynge sermon And as lewd sermoÌ„s as they make in such noughty games wold god that these meÌ„nys ernyst sermons were not yet mych wurse But surely as euyll as the tother be yet is there more harme more dedely poyson to in this one sermone of Tyndalys as ye shall here or yt come at the ende then in an hundred sermons of frere Frappe that fyrste gapeth and then blessyth and loketh holyly and precheth rybauldrye to the peopell that stande aboute For there is not the worste thynge that frere Frappe precheth in a lewde sporte but fader Tyndall here wryteth mych worse in very great ernest mych worse then doth the tother abusyth the scrypture vnto yt The tother when he precheth that men may lawfully go to lcchery he maketh commenly some fonde textes of his owne hed and dare not in such madde matters medle wyth the very scrypture yt selfe But Tyndall teacheth vs in good ernest that freres may walke out and wedde nunnes and is neyther aferd nor ashamed to draw the holy scripture of god vnto the mayntenauÌ„ce of abhominabyll synne and seruyce of the deuyll The tother rybawde in hys fonde sermon medleth but with fleshly vyces and worldly wantonnes But Tyndall here with an ernest hyghe professyon of godly
sure that thys newe fayth of Luther Tyndall and frere Huskyn is very fonde and false and that theyr mouthes are all out of taaste syth that from Chrystes dethe hytherto all holy men all good people all true chrysten nacyons haue sauored alwaye those meatys to be good and holsome whyche these fonde felowes affyrme now to be bytter peryllous meate and haue alwayes affyrmed for vnsauery meate and euyll suche as now these mad men affyrme to be well seasoned good haue alwayes hytherto reputed for shamefull and fylthy lechery the flesshly cowplyng to gether of freres and nonnes that these losels now do boldely put forth auowe for good and lawfull matrymonye If Tyndall graunte that I say trewe in this then shall he be fayne to graunte that the wordes whyche he allegeth agaynst vs spoken by the mouthe of our sauyoure be not spoken agayst vs that byleue as all Chrystes chyrche hath byleued euer hytherto but that they be spokeÌ„ agaynst hym selfe and his felowys that byleue the contrary And on the other syde yf Tyndall deny me thys and wyll saye that all good men and goddes electes haue alwaye byleued as he hys felowes do teache and that they haue alwaye taught and done the same let Tyndall then tell vs one good honest maÌ„ what speke we of honest man let hym tell vs of ony one so very a starke rybawlde in all this .xv. C. yere afore Luthers dayes and hys that euer taught that it was lawfull for a frere to wedde a nunne If Tyndall shewe you not thys as I wotte well he can not â—â— Tyndale taketh here saiÌ„t Poule at his pleasure For saiÌ„t Poâ—le speketh not there of bâ—rne agayne nor new created wyth yâ— spyryt but that senâ—uall meÌ„ as those that be carnalâ— coÌ„tenciouse be not mete for the perfit doctrine of spyrituall ieuelacioÌ„s and theâ— by that place Tyndales spirytualâ— sâ—rte be not spirytuall nor mete veâ—â—els to receyue gyue â—ut the doctâ—ine of yâ— spyrite for there be no people so carnall so â—â—tâ—cicâ—se as they than be ye very sure that sythe euery holy man before hys dayes hathe taught the contrary and hath had yt in detestacyoÌ„ he now defendeth yt for good agaynst all good men that hath bene euer synnys Crystes dayes to hys owne how holy a tale so euer he tell you besyde how so euer he paynt yt wyth scrypture wrythen and wrested owte of all good course ye may be sure ynoughe that hys doctryne ys for all that very starke noughte in dede and that he meanyth no good and that yf he beleue as he teacheth as I verely beleue he doth not hys fayth ys very false Tyndall ☞ And thys same is it that Paule saythe in the seconde chapter of the fyrste epystle to the Corynthians how that the naturall man that ys not borne agayne and created a new wyth the spyryte of god be he neuer so grete a phylosopher neuer so well seene in the lawe neuer so sore studyed in the scrypture as we haue ensamples in the pharysies yet he can not vnderstond the thynges of the spyryte of god but sayth he the spyrytuall iudgeth all thynges his spyryte sercheth the depe secretis of god so that what so euer god commaundeth hym to doo Saynte Poule in that place spekyth nâ—t of eny serche that spirytuall meÌ„ shuld make of the cause of godd is coÌ„mauÌ„dementis but Tyndall fayneth yâ— thing to finde by yâ— seâ—che of yâ— cause some dyscharge of the coÌ„maundmeÌ„t he neuer leueth serchyng tyll he come at the botom the pyth the quycke the lyfe the spyryte the marye and very cause why and iudgeth all thynge More ye consyder well that Tyndall in these wordes wolde ye shulde wene that these folke of whom saynt Poule speketh in that place be such as can not sauour the doctryne of Luther frere Huskyn and hym But then consyder agayn vppone whome hys wordes fall For ye dowte not nor hym selfe can not denye but that hys doctryne ys farre frome the taste of saynt Austeyne saynt HieroÌ„e saynt Ambrose saynt Cypryan saynt Gregory and all those olde holy doctours of Crystes chyrche vnto Luthers dayes and hys or els as I sayd let hym tell me whyche of all theym dyd not abhorre that a preste shulde wedde a nunne And therfore thus ye se that by Tyndalys holy tale there were none of all them were they neuer so gret philosophers neuer so well seen in the law neuer so sore studyed in scrypture that cowlde vnderstonde the thynges of the spyryte of god bycause they were but naturall men not borne agayne nor created a newe wyth the spyryte of god How knoweth Tyndale that none of all these that hathe bene aduersaryes to his doctrine that is to wytte of all good men that euer were in crystendome syth Cryste was borne vnto Tyndalys tyme was borne agayne or newe created wyth the spyryte of god Howe hym selfe vnderstandeth his hyghe spirytuall wordes I wote nere but I wote well that all those holy fathers were reputed for good crysten and I wene they were all baptized and borne agayne of water and the spyryte as our sauyour sayd vnto Nychodemus after that they lyued well and spyrytually and dyed well and spyrytually as apperyth by theyr bookes and hystoryes wryâ—en of theyr lyues and myracles shewed for them of god afâ—er theyr dethys And vnto suche symple groce carnall peopell as we be these thynges seme well to shewe that they were borne agayne of god new created wyth his spyrite and so by Tyndalys owne tale shold seme able to vnderstande the thynges of the spyryte of god But yet wyll Tyndale none of that For he lyketh not theyr iudgement but he sayth that the spyrytuall iudgeth all thynges And where as saynte Paule in the place alledged by Tyndale sayth that the holy goost the spyryte of god sercheth euen the depe thynges of god by cause that vnto that holy spyryte whych is god there is nothynge of god vnknowen Tyndale taketh that hygh power vnto his wurshâ—ppefull spirytuall sorte sayeÌ„g the spyrituall iudgeth all thâ—nges and his spyryte sercheth the depe secretys of god And with this not satisfyed he amplifyteh and enhaunceth theyr holy serche vppon heyth and sayth that the spyryte of theyr spirytuall sorte serche the depe secretys of god so far that what so euer god commaundeth them to do they neuer leue serchynge tyll they come at the botome the pyth the quycke the lyfe the spiryte the mary and very cause why and so iudge all thynge what an hepe of hyghe vehement wordes hath Tyndale here heped vp to gyther who wolde not wene that he were wyth some holy medytacyon caryed vp in Ennoke and Helyas chare But yet good crysten reder for all his holy tale remember agayne the frere and the nunne Luther and hys wyfe Tyndales owne mayster and maystres the chyeff hed author of his hygh spyrytuall fayth For Lutherye wote
be not laufull to serue god wyth charyte to whyche now they leue and fall all to lusty loue wyth intent to get heuyn the rather to that they let not to grauÌ„te also but they say the cause is for that fayth they say hath alwaye charyte therwyth But all be it that in that poynte theyr affyrmacyoÌ„ is fals as by reason and pleyne scrypture hath ben often proued vnto them 1. Câ—r 13 Iacâ—bi 2 that is ynough to me that they graunte that a man maye laufully loue god and serue hym wyth charyte to th entent to be the rather saued and come to heuyn therby For now semeth me that yf we laufully maye as Tyndale wyll grauÌ„t we maye serue god with the vertues of fayth and hope and charyte or of any one of them wyth respecte vnto goddys benefytes receyued and also to come and to th entent therby the rather to be saued come to heuyn we may then laufully with lyke respecte purpose inteÌ„t serue god wyth any other vertue that procedeth of fayth hope charyte or of any suche one of them wyth whyche it is laufull for vs for suche respecte entent purpose to serue god then wyll not Tyndale denye but that prayer fastynge almesse dede and contynence and clennesse of body penauÌ„ce trouble of the mynde wyth sufferauns of trybulacyon or afflyccyon of the flesshe wyllyngly taken wyth many other outwarde and inwarde workes may procede of fayth hope and charyte wherfore I can not se but that Tyndale as he graunteth here that we maye serue god wyth loue entendyng thereby to please hym and be sauyd the rather so must he nedys graunte and agre that lykewyse may we wyth lyke entente and purpose serue wyth all other workes aboue remembryd procedynge of a faythfull workynge charyte wherof he and all hys fonde felowes in euery place holde hytherto the contrary And thus haue I now playnly deducyd vppon Tyndals owne wordes the full confusyon of hys owne comen conclusyon so many tymes by hym and hys felowes obiected and among them all neuer onys yet well prouyd nor neuer able to be proued agaynst the profyte of good mennys chrysten workes for chrysten be theyr prayers theyr fastynge and theyr almosse dedys when they be done in fayth hope and charyte and in the state of grace Tyndall And when he is commaundyd to obay the powers and rewlers of the worlde be loketh on the benefytes whiche god shewyth the worlde thorow them and therfore doeth it gladly More In this obedyence Tyndale is yet content to haue a respecte to the benefytes that god worketh and shewyth the worlde thorow the powers and rewlers of the world putteth that for eyther the onely or the chyefe cause of hys obedyence as he putteth it for the onely or chyefe cause of goddys commaundement In whiche kynde of obedyence semeth not the greatest vertue when a man obeyeth onely for hys owne aduauntage but the very chrysten obedyence is to obaye specially for that god so coÌ„maundeth and not so to serche and lymyte the cause of goddes coÌ„maundement as he may therby take hymselfe gyue to other an easy bolde occasyoÌ„ to dysobaye resyste and rebell agaynst theyr hedys and rulers pretendynge that they be not profytable Thys thynge meanyth Tyndale as it apperyth by hys wordes here in the cause of hys obedyence to the powers and rulers of the worlde as it apperyth in dyuers other places of hys workes and Luther his maysters to But god all though he wyll that the gouernours and rulers of the world sholde be good and profytable to the people yet wyll he not that the people shall measure the dewty of theyr obedyence by the onely rule and measure of theyr owne profyte and coÌ„modyte but that they shall obaye theyr prynces and other rulers and gouernours bycause that they be theyr gouernours and rulers and bycause that god hath so coÌ„mauÌ„ded For yf they may measure theyr obedyeÌ„ce by yâ— measure of theyr owne profyte as Tyndale telleth vs they shall sone seke occasyon of sedycion and therof do themselfe also more harme in one daye then sholde theyr ruler in many yeres all were he ryght vnprofytable in dede as apperyd by the vplandysshe Lutherans in Almayn whyche measuryng theyr obedyence by Tyndalys rule gyuen them before by Tyndalys mayster became all vnrulye and dysobeyd and rebellyd agaynst theyr rulers and therby dysobeyd goddes commaundement and brought therby the vengeaunce of god vppon theyr owne heddys to the slaughter of aboue foure score thowsand of them in one sommer the remenaunt the worse entreated euer syns and that hath made Luther and Tyndale a lytell to retreate syns and set a new glose therto yâ— will but shrewdly serue them as I shall shewe you when I come to the place hereafter in hys boke Tyndall And when he is commaunded to loue his neyghbour as hymselfe â—e serchâ—â—â— that hys neyghbour is created of god and bought with Crysâ—es blode and so forth More Loo thys is very louyngly spoken he sayth very well and I praye god that he be one of those spyrytuals that so doeth but surely many places in euery boke that he writeth seme clerely to declare that he hath another maner of spyryte then suche a spyryte of loue And yet were it herde excepte yâ— goddys coÌ„maundement gyue vs that warnyng ellys wyll it be somwhat herd for any man vppoÌ„ the other two causes by any serche to perceyue that he were in reason bouÌ„den to loue another aswell as hymselfe though they maye serue to loue hym ryght well Tyndale And therfore he loueth hym oute of his harte Owt of 〈◊〉 â—erte not in hys heâ—â—e And yf he be euyll forbereth hym and wyth all loue and pacyeÌ„ce draueth hym to good as elder brotheren wayte on the yonger and serue them and suffre them and when they wyll not come they speke fayre and flater and gyue some gaye thyng and promyse fayre and so drawe them and smyte them not but yf they may in no wyse be holpe referre the ponyshement to the father and mother and so forth And by thesâ— iudgeth be all other lawes oâ— god and vnderstandeth the true vse and meanyng of them and by these vnderstandeth he in the lawes of man whych are ryght and whyche tyrannye More Useth Tyndale and his spyrytuall mayster thys manes of loue this forberynge and this maner of pacyeÌ„s to warde the pope and the clergye and towarde prynces and other teÌ„porall rulers we se perde thorow all theyr bokes in what lowly louynge fashion they serue and suffer them and how fayre they speke and how plesauntly they flater all holy catholyque crysten people sauyng onely theyr own secte with as venemouse wordes and as poysen speche as the dyuell can dyuyse them wyth all the meanes they may to sow dyuysyon and dyssencyon and set the people in sedycyon vnder colour of true fayth to brynge them in heresyes and destroye both bodye and soule
shal be content to punysshe our selfe And that fastyng is one of the good workes that bysyde other good great godly purpose serueth for satisfaccyoÌ„ of synne procuryng of remyssyon grace and pardone that it serueth not onely for the tamynge of the flesshe as Tyndale here wolde haue it seme ye shall se to manyfestly proued by many playne placys in euery parte of scrypture Fyrst the fastes that Moyses fasted fyrst for the law and after for the synne of the peple and the synne of Aaron also were thefe fastes for nothynge but for to tame his flesshe Item in .xxi. chapiter of the thryde boke of kynges wheÌ„ Achab had herd these wordes he tare his garmeÌ„tis and put on his bodye a shyrte of here he fasted and slept in a sacke and went hangynge his hede lowe done and our lorde sayd to Helyas Thesbites hast thow not sene how Achab hathe humbled hym before me And therfore bycause he hath humbled hym selfe for my sake I wyll brynge no euyll in dutynge his lyfe Doth yt not manyfestly appere by these wordes that kyng Achab fasted not for tamyng of his flessh tâ— kepe yt from wyldnes but he fasted for the selfe same cause for whych he ware here and slepte in a sacke that is to wyt to humble him selfe afore the face of god and to do penauÌ„ce in punyshynge hym selfe for his synne to moue thereby almyghty god to mercy to the wythdrawyng of his hyghe punyshement whyche ellys he fered wolde fall vppon hys hede whych punishement god at the respecte of the kynges humble penaunce and payne of fastynge and other afliccyoÌ„ wyllyngly taken by hym selfe dyd mercyfully wythdrawe from hym so that in all his dayes he suffred hym to fele no parte thereof And so may ye se this place of scripture euydent playne agaynste Tyndale and that very repentaunce requyreth of the repentaunte person not onely tamynge of the flesshe agaynste the synne immynent or to come but also punyshement by fastynge and other afflyccyon for the synne all redy done And now Cryste hath to cristen men promysed of our synnes forgyuenes and of our payne releace by vertue of hys payne but this meaneth he to them that set not theyr owne synnes at so lyght after his great kyndnes shewed but that theyr own selfe shewe by theyr owne wylfâ—ll punyshement worthy to suffre payne also them selfe therfore and then his payne hath gyuen theyr payne the lyfe that maketh yt quycke and auaylable not entâ—ndynge yet that hym selfe so sholde take payne that the synners them selfe sholde synne at theyr pleasure and be saued all wyth ease as Tyndale Luther wolde make vs wene For that were the way to make men wanton and wax very bolde in synne Forthermore in the fyrste boke of Esdras and the .viii. chapyter yt is wryten thus in the person of the people we haue fasted and prayed to god for this that is to wyt for helpe agaynst our enymyes yt is comen prosperousely to passe ye may here clerely se this pestylent opinyon of Tyndale wyth few wordes confuted For this faste was not for tamynge of the flesshe but for auoydynge of theyr paâ—ell Agayne in the seconde boke of Esdras and the fyrste chapiter thus sayd Nehemias wheÌ„ I had herd such tydynges that is to wyt how the walles of Hierusalem were throwen done the yates burnt and the chyldern of Israel in great affliccyon and mysery I sat downe and wepte and mornyd many dayes I fasted also and prayed afore the face of the god of heuen Lo this faste was not for to tame the flesshe for the man was in heuynes far from such wanton thynges but he fasted as he wept and mornyd to moue god to mercy Also the great preste of god Eliachym sayth in the .iiii. of Iudith Knowe ye that our lorde shall heare your prayers yf ye contynue in fastynge and prayng in the syght of hym I suppose no man is of so symple wyt vnderstandyng but he may at the bare rehersall of this brief texte well perceyue that Eliachim dyd not esteme fastyng as Tyndale doth nother toke yt not onely for a tamynge of the flesshe but for a meane also to purchace grace wyth remyssyon pardon and also to obteyne ayde and helpe of god in that great necessyte Is not the .iiii. of Hester also clene contrarye to the doctryne of these deuelyshe prechers of fleshly liberty Go and assemble sayth that good quene all the Iewes that thow fyndest in Susan and praye ye for me Eate ye not nether drynke not in .iii. dayes and .iii. nyghtes And I lykewyse wyll fast wyth my maydens wolde she that they sholde forbere mete and drynk to the intent that by theyr fastynge they myght tame her flesshe nay nor for the tamynge of theyr own neyther But that by theyr deuoute fastynge and her maydens and her own they myght prouoke our lorde to pytyâ— them and preserue them from that immynent parell that they were then all in what sayth Toby Prayer sayth he ioyned with fastyng is good He sayth not this onely for yâ—ng lusty folke for tamyng of theyr flesshe in auoydyng of inteÌ„perauÌ„ce for good crysten fastynge goeth sometyme farre aboue the naturall temperaunce but he teacheth all men that may wythoute harme to ioyne wyth prayer that payne of fastyng as a thyng pleasaunt vnto god in such wyse as the prayer is and yt is a secrete inwarde effectuall prayer when the payne of all the bodye repentynge and punyshynge the synne cryeth to god for mercy wyth voyce of the mouth In the .xxxiiii. chapytâ—r of Ecclesiasticus yt is wrytten The man that fasteth for his synnes and agayn commyteth the selfe same synnes what auayleth hym this humilytye wherby yt is well vnderstanden that he whych fasteth amendeth hym selfe his faste auayâ—eth and is profâ—table And wherfore not onely for tamyng of his flesshe for that may be tame inough and yet the man bad inough but yt auayleth for remyssyon of synne and for meryte in heuen For as holy saynte Austayne saythe To saye that the faste of a crysten man shall haue no rewarde in heuen is not the opynyon of a true crysten man but of an heretyque The prophete Iohel in the secoÌ„de chapyter And therefore now sayth the lorde turne to me wyth all your herte in fastynge wepynge and weylynge Tere your hertes not your garmentes and so forth Lo here the prophete exhorteth to fastynge as he doth to harty mornynge and wepyng not for a couÌ„tenaunce of sorow but to be sorofull to take payne in dede not in theyr clothes where they fele yt not but in theyr bodyes and inwardely in theyr hertes where they fele yt thorowly so that they may therby not onely tame theyr flesshe but also turne agayne to god that he may take pytye vppon theÌ„ and turne agayne to them Rede we not in the thyrde chapitre of the ê“phete Ionas that god seynge the Niniuytes chastyse and punyshe them selfe wyth fastynge and
hys boke treateth lyke wyse as they that haue wyt and lernynge do all redy fynde hys handelyng of these maters full of malyce very voyde of trewth so I trust when we come hereafter to the places to make ryght meane lerned folke and meane wytted to perceyue that all hys hygh inuencyon that he wolde haue seme so sothe is in very dede a very madde mannys dreme Tyndale And agaynste the myste of theyr sophystrâ—ye take the ensamples that are paste in the olde testament and autentyke stâ—ryes and the present practyse whych thou seest before thyne yies More we be well content that these thynges trye the myste of bothe partyes so that Tyndale take wyth hym one thynge or twayne more which I meruayle wherfore he now leueth oute sauynge that he seeth well that they wyll clerely dyssypate and dyscusse the myste that he fayne wolde walke in For ellys why leueth he clene out the new testament now we must praye hym that we may take in that to And for asmych as we do on bothe the sydes agre vppoÌ„ the texte of scrypture and that the questyoÌ„ mych lyeth whyther Tyndale and hys felowes vnderstond it ryght or ellys the hole chyrche of all crysten nacyons we shall praye hym to be content that we may laye forth in yâ— behalfe the mynde of the olde holy doctours and sayntes whych wrote of these maters so many huÌ„dâ—ed yâ—â—es ere euer thys busynes began and wrote not for the pleasure of eyther other partye And them wyll we the rather allege bycause Tyndale aswell in hys boke of obedyence as in dyuers places of thys boke is not ashamed to sayâ— that we wyll not byleue the olde holy doctours but that they â—o and be of the bylefe that those holy fathers were and as I say he is not ashamed to wryte this ye and that very often when he woteth well that amonge them all he can not fynde one that euer byleued other but that it was a shamefull abomynable syâ—e a monke to mary a 〈◊〉 whyche thynge hereafter in thys boke Tyndale so folyshly 〈◊〉 that sauynge for pytye to se any man so madde one that â—â—ye sore sycke coude not forbere to lawghe at it Tyndale Iudge whyther yt be possible that any good sholde come oute of theyr domme ceremonyes and sacramentes in to thy soule Iudge theyr penounce pysgrymages pardones purgatorye praynge to postes domme blessynges domme absolucyons theyr domme paterynge and halowynge theyr domme straunge holy gestures wyth all theyr domme disgysynges theyr satisfaccyons and iustefyenge And because thou syndest them false in so many thynges truste them in nothynge but iâ—dge them in all thinges More Iudge good crysten reader whyther yt be possyble that he be any better then a beste oute of whose brutyshe bestely mouth coÌ„meth such a fylthye fome of blasphemyes agaynst crystes holy ceremonyes and blessed sacramentes sent in to his chyrche out of his owne blessed bloody syde And for bycause ye fynde this felowe so frantike and so false in the ray lynge and iestynge agaynste the sacramentes of Cryste ye may well iudge that who so can delyte or be coÌ„tent with his blasphemouse rybauldy hath great cause in hym self to fere that his crysten fayth begynneth to fayle and faynte Tyndale Marke at the laste the practyse of our fleshely spirytualtye and theyr wayes by whyche they haue walked aboue .viij. hoâ—dred yeres how they stablyshe theyr lyes fyrst wyth falsyfyenge the scrypture then thorow corruptyng with theyr ryches wherof they haue infynyte treasure in story and laste of all with the swerde More ye mary marke I praye you For this is mych to be marketh lo that Tyndale can not bere the flesshelynes of oure spyrytualtye bycause the flesshelynes of theyr chyrch is spyrytuall For the flesshely wedded harlotes of theyr chyrche be theyr chyef holy spyrytuall fathers and holy spyrytuall mothers monkes freres and nunnes And bycause theyr holy chyrch is but new bygonne Tyndale wolde we shold wene that this .viii. hundred yere and more Criste hath had no chyrch in the worlde at all For so longe sayth Tyndale all hath be nought by the reason that all this whyle the clergye hath falsyfyed the scrypture and hyred men wyth gyftes and compelled them wyth the swerâ—e to byleue them so all this .viii. hundred yeres sayth Tyndale by these meanes all the crysten nacyons haue in â—tede of true fayth byleued false lyes and so haue ben out of the fayth all nought If Tyndale dyd not lye now as blyssed be god he doth here had ben a grete gappe in crystendome thys .xv. C. yere And where had Crystes promyse ben then all thys whyle with his electes Nay yf this chyrch haue had all this while false sacramentes Cryste hath had none electes all thys whyle For they haue vsed what so euer Tyndale saye the same sacramentes that theyr neyghbours dyd I wolde also that he had tolde vs how mych more then xv C. yeres the chyrche hath had false sacrameÌ„tes lest that that he calleth now more he shall hereafter call yet mych more For therto shall he be faine to fall or els to call these .viii. C. bakke agayne and confesse the sacramentes true or fynally whyche he is most lykely to do bable on styll agaynst all reason agaynst all good men and agaynst all scrypture and so that he be talkynge neuer care what whereof nor how For I am sure that in the sacramentes and in yâ— knowlege of the chyrche hys malycyouse folye is reproued by the olde holy doctours aboue hys .viii. C. yere almoste as many mo and ouer that by playne scrypture to Tyndale Haue they not compelled the emperours of the erth and the great sâ—rdes and bye offycers to be obedyent vnto them to dispute for them and to be they re tormentours and the samsumyms them selfes do but ymagen myschyef and inspyre them More Here is all the great anger that greueth this good man that eyther lorde kynge or emperour medleth any thynge for the mayntenaunce of the fayth or set to theyr handes to the repressynge of heresyes But yf Tyndale fynde thys for a fawte he must go farre aboue hys .viii. C. yere For it is farre aboue a thousande synnys that as euyll lordes prynces and emperours haue holpeÌ„ and mayntened heretykes so lyke wyse good lordes prynces emperours haue set to theyr handes to subdewe them And theyr maynteners haue vanysshed awaye wyth them and theyr amenders and punysshers god hath mayntened and favoured and good godly men haue called vppon prynces for theyrâ— ayde and assystence in suche case and at theyr instaunce and pursuyt haue prynces and emperours bothe punysshed them made many good lawes agaynste them Tyndale Marke whether yt were euer trewer then now The scrybes pharyseys Pyâ—late Herode Cayphas and Anna are gathered to gether agaynste god and Criste but yet I truste in vayne and that he that brake the counsell of Achitophell shall scatter theyrs More Marke now good crysteÌ„
I am sure when saynt Paule spake of the chyrch of the Corynthyes or of the Ephesyans he ment not in thys Tyndales thyrde sygnyfycacyon after his descrypcyon all the hole bodye of the cytye and all such as perteyned therto generally but the crysten people onely Nor now also yf Tyndale wolde speke of the chyrche of London where all the hole towne is crysten people there wolde no man vnderstande therby thâ— hole body of the cyte but the clergye onely nor no man Tyndale excepte in spekynge wolde so meane But this darkenes vseth Tyndale bycause he wolde haue it seme that thys worde chyrche which in the englysshe tonge hath euer had a good sygnyfycacyon an holy in mennys hertes sholde seme to haue somtyme the contrary Out of whyche darkenes I shall drawe Tyndale anone I truste and accordynge to my poetry wherin he mokketh me pull vp cerberouse in to the lyght But now let vs fyrste consyder a lytell hys fyrst sygnyfycyon where he sayth yt sygnyfyeth a place wherunto crysten people were wonte in the olde tyme to resort at tymes conuenyent for to here the worde of doctryne the lawe of god and the fayth of our sauyour Cryste and how and what to pray and whense to aske power and strength to lyue godly why sayth Tyndale here in the olde tyme for all this we do in the new tyme to how so euer Tyndale lyste to lye Then goeth he ferther and lyeth on lustely sayenge that of Crystes promyses nor of hys mercye we knowe no thyng at all as though no man had here herd euer any thyng spoken that mankynde is redemed by Crystes passyon that he hath ordayned his holy sacramentes and promysed men grace that wyth fayth and deuocyon receyue them Is not thys man shameles so boldely to bere vs all in hande that we neuer here worde of suche thynges as euery boy better byleueth then he For euery chylde that is of competent age hath herde that god gyueth by hys holy ordynaunce whych euer includeth hys promyse grace wyth all his .vii. sacramentes where as Tyndale of seuen taketh it a way fro fyue and from almost one and an halfe of the tother twayne to Euery boy byleueth and byleueth trew that god hath promysed rewarde to good workes And Tyndale wyll not byleue yâ— promyse at all but denyeth it playnely as playnly as god sayth it hym self in many places of the very gospell But then on the tother syde Tyndale telleth vs that god hath promysed alwaye to euery man the blysse of heuen for onely fayth alone And here euery boy byleueth and woteth well he lyeth Now towchynge the mercy of our lorde who can speke of Crystes passyon and speke nothyng of hys mercy This man is to madde to talke wyth Goddys mercy is so greate that no man can speke inoughe thereof But the worlde waxeth such now a dayes yâ— as it is nede to pray for mercy so were it nede to preche of goddys iustyce put the people in mynde of hys wrathe and indygnacyon lykely to fall vppon vs yf we gyue eare to suche dedely doâ—â—ryne as Tyndale techeth and I pray god of hys greate mercy to gyue that man a better mynde yet goeth he ferther and sayth that of the lawe of god we thynke as dyd the Turkes and the olde Hethen people that it is a thynge whyche euery man may do of our owne power what careth Tyndale what he saye that careth not to wryte thys wherein euery mannes earys that wolde hym well glowe for very shame that here hym where herde he euer any man saye that any man may fulfyll the law of god of hys owne power Mary thys we saye and saye trowth the man hath suche power gyuen of god that he maye worke wyth goddes grace in the kepynge of the law But this can not Tyndale bere for theyr heresye is that man towarde the kepyng of goddys precepte hath no fre wyll at all and now dyssymylynge hys owne heresye he dedely byleyth vs. Now of prayour he sayth we thynhe that no man maye praye but at chyrche and that it is nothynge ellys but to saye a pater noster to a post and that the obseruaunces and ceremonyes of the chyrche are vayne thynges of our owne ymagynacyon neyther nedefull to the tamynge of the fâ—esshe nor profytable to our neyghbour neyther honour vnto god Those lyes come in by lumpes lo. I dare saye he neuer herde in hys lyfe man nor woman saye that no man maye praye but at chyrche As trew is it also that men saye theyr pater noster to the poste by whych name it pleaseth hym of hys reuerent crysteÌ„ mynde to call the ymages of holy fayntes and oure blyssed lady and the fygure of Crystes crosse the booke of hys bytter passyon Though we reuerence these in honour of the thynges whyche they represent and in the remembrauns of Cryste do crepe to the crosse and kysse it and say a pater noster at it yet saye we not the pater noster to it but to god and that woteth Tyndale full well but that he lysteth to rayle As for that he sayeth of the seruyce ceremonyes and obseruauÌ„ces of the chyrche whych he calleth here vayne ymagynacyons howlynge buzsynge and cryenge out lyke halowynges of the foxes or baytynge of berys thus he sayth it is now but of olde tyme he sayth that the officers appoynted there vnto preched the pure word of god onely and prayed in a tonge that euery man vnderstode As for prechynge of the pure word of god I muste wyt of Tyndale whyther he meane the worde wryten or vnwryten or bothe If he say they preched the worde of god bothe wryten and vnwryten and onely that then I saye so do we now to Peraduenture he wyll say that the precheours now lay thereto the â—ide holy doctours I saye that therein they lay but goddes worde for they laye them for the better vnderstandynge of goddes worde wryten and for the better knowlege of goddes worde vnwryten For we be very sure that yt is his worde when we se that all the holy doctours that spent theyr lyfe in the studye of his worde and in the kepynge of his worde and the prechynge of his worde do testyfye from age to age by theyr holy wrytynge that those wordes vnwryten which the chyrch beleueth were and be his wordes as well and as veryly as those that be wryten in any parte of scrypture Then yf Tyndale wyll say that our preacheours preche Aristotle philosophers and poetes thereto I say that they sometyme speke of philosophers in thynges of nature or of morall vertues And yf this new apostle now saynte Tyndale take this thyng for so great an heyghnouse cryme theÌ„ is he surely mych more apostolycall then was Crystes olde apostle Poule For he letted not in his epystle to the Romanes to alledge and alowe the philosophers coÌ„nyng though he dysproued and dyspraysed the foly of theyr fall wrechednes of theyr
Hierome founde some fautes in his workes he muste remember agayne that many a good man and among those saynte Pamphilus the blessed martyr founde in Origenes doctrine so mych erâ—dycyon deuocyon vertue bysyde that they veryly thought those errours none of his nor neuer were there any such faâ—tes founden in his wrytynge whyle hym self lyued nor no man offended with hym many places in his bokes playne that seme to saye the coÌ„trary And therfore many good men thought and yet thynge all be yt saynt Hierome thought otherwyse as he myght well inow whyle that poynte no thynge perteyneth to the fayth that chose heresyes were put in to hys bokes after his deth by some that were heretyques in dede and wolde for the great estymacyon that Origeneâ— was in thorough all the chyrch anaunce theyr owne heresyes forwarde vnder the name and standard of his famouse authoryte But graunted nowe that those faâ—tes were his whyche were imputed vnto hym yet is this none of theÌ„ But saynte 〈…〉 so 〈…〉 Tyndales scoldyng accepted and taken 〈◊〉 all 〈…〉 wyll I brynge in with hym some other that I haue named and yet other mo bysyde that shall as I sayd testyfye with me before this boke be done that god hath taught his chyrche many thynges wherof in the scrypture his worde is yet vnwrytem But now wyll I for the meane while touchyng this poynt wheruppoÌ„ the great wayghte of all the mater hangeth go nerer vnto Tyndale a nother waye It is ye wote well agreed bytwene vs or yf he wold be so madde to say naye ye wyll yet your selfe agre this in his stede that ones of olde tyme Cryste hym selfe and his apostles dyd teache and preache mâ—ny wordes of god vnwryten Now thus I say syth many thynges were tought fyrst vnwryten yf any of them be yet lefte vnwryten then saye I that Tyndale is at the leste wyâ—e temerariouse ouer bolde so certaynely to affyrme that any sacrament that the chyrch vseth and so longe hath vsed or ceremony eyther is idolatrye for as mych as if we lakked sure profe vppon our syde whyche in dede we lakke not by reason of goddes spyryte by Crystes owne promyse euer abydynge wyth his chyrch and teachyng it all trewth but yf we lakke I say that profe for our parte yet were he to presumptuousely bowe so precysely to affyrme the contrary syth he can not say naye but that they myght be some of those that were sometyme toâ—ghte vnwryten and yet remayne obserued vnwryten as the other that now be wryten were tought kept wythout wrytynge before To this wyll Tyndall answere that syâ—â—â—â— that tyme all goddes wordes promyses sacramentes that he wold haue kepte and byleued in crysâ—â—ndome he hath caused to be wryten by his euangelistes and apostles and lefte nâ—ne vnwryten to 〈…〉 that his chyrch shall not stande in any dâ—wte nor fall into any errour of any necessary poynt for lakke of wrytynge but moâ—e â—knowâ— by that he hath caused all to be wryten that all be false and fayned and â—â—ennys madde inâ—encyons that they byleue and obserue vnwryteÌ„ For wâ—y sholde he â—â—â—se some to be wryten and suffer some lefte vnwryten to make men sure of some and to leue some in 〈◊〉 〈…〉 cause for he seeth why well inough and therfore I wyll gyue no rekenynge why god hath caused some to be wryten and some to be lefte vnwryten But thys wyll I be bolde to saye that he was not of any necessyte compelled to wryte any one sacrameÌ„t or ceremony or weyghty poynt of byleue for any fere leste it sholde fall awaye and that he coude not wyth hys owne spyryte kepe it in mennys hertes and vsage wythout wrytynge as well as he kept in the good generacyons the knowledge of his promyses and his lawes longe and many ages before the lawe was wryten and yet wrote them not all therin neyther but the people had a fayth of Cryste amonge them more large then was wryten in theyr lawe whyche went from hande to hande I thynke from Adams dayes to whom it is lykely that god made after his fall some larger promyse and reuelacyon of hys redempcyoÌ„ agayne than we fynde made vnto hym wryten in any place of scrypture But we shall not nede mych profe for thys mater for that god was able to kepe all hys sacramentes and artycles of the fayth wythout wrytynge Tyndale I wene wyll not deny me Now to say that yf he sholde haue lefte some vnwryten it wolde haue made dowtes and debates and be occasyons of errours and heresyes and the writyng doth put all thynges oute of dowte and therfore god hath lefte none vnwryten we se that thys maketh neyther more sure nor lesse For as well dyd men byleue before the wrytyng those thynges that are now wryten as euer they dyd synnys and we beleue now the promyses as well that are vnwryten as any that are wryten And the wrytynge taketh not away all the dowtes but as many ryse thereuppon and many mo then vppon those thynges that we byleue vnwryten For fyrste the credence to be gyuen to the hole boke in whyche they be wryten hangeth all vppon the same fayth vppon whyche dependen the thynges that are vnwryten For as I byleue the tone so byleue I the tother And as one maye by hys owne frowardnes lakke the grace to byleue the thynges vnwryten so maye a nother by his owne malyce lakke the grace to byleue any parte of the hole boke of holy scrypture that is wryteÌ„ and take it all for fantasyes And in good sayth I am aferd yâ— so do they whych saye they byleue nothynge els but it For as for parte of the boke they brynge in queâ—â—yâ—Ì„ 〈◊〉 boke of the Machabees by cause it maketh questyon as agaynst theyr purpose concernyng purgatory And parte they let not mych to deny as Luther doeth the epystle of saynte Iamys bycause it speketh playnely agaynst hys idle workelesse fayth Now in that partes whyche they graunte for scrypture yet taketh it not awaye all the dowtes But vnto such folke as Tyndale is and Luther that be so contencyouse it mynystreth rather mych mater of dowte and of debate that mych more then do the thynges that are obserued wythout wrytynge For fyrst they refuse to obserue them bycause they saye they fynde them not there wryten so ryseth that questyon fyrst vppon the wrytynge Then yf it be founden there then dyspute they whyther it be fully founden there as whyther we fynde there bothe the token and the thynge betokened For the sacrament take they but for a bare sygne and the thynge that is sygnyfyed they call no thynge but Crystes onely promyse And here make they vppon the wrytynge many greate batayles to bete downe allmoste all the sacramentes sauyng scant one and an halfe Then vppon the letter rayse they many greate errours and saye the scripture is playne vppon theyr syde And thys say not onely Luther Tyndale and
tother syde all good faythfull people do and therfore they call the chyrch the chyrch styll and wyll not agre to châ—â—nge the olde chyrch for his new congregacyon but burne vppe his bokes that so calle◠〈◊〉 who so wold so begynne to call yt wold and well myght begynne to call 〈◊〉 hereteque for his deâ—ytynge in the imiâ—â—cyon of heretyâ—â—â—â— and his euyll appetyte to spâ—ke after an heretyques 〈◊〉 Tyndale For whereso euer saythe he that I maye saye a congregacyon there I maye say a chyrch also as the chyrch of the deuyâ—l the chyrch of SathaÌ„ the chyrch of wreches the chyrche of wykked men the chyrch of lyâ—rs and a chyrch of Turkes thereto More This is lustely sayde of Tyndale add lyke a man But yt pleaseth hym not to consydeâ— that I sayed that this worde congregacyon is indyffereâ—â— vnto Turkes and crysten men and vnto all otheâ— companyes and a coÌ„pany of cristen men so that yt as well sygnifyeth a companye of Turkes as of crysten men and that this worde chyrch doth sygnifye a coÌ„pany of crysten people and is not indyfferent to a company of Turkes and of crysten men And I sayed and yet I say that this is trew of the vsuall sygnifycacyon of these wordes them selfe in the englyshe tonge by the comeÌ„ custume of vs englyshe peple that eyther now do vse these wordes in our langage or that haue vsed byfore oure dayes And I saye that this comen câ—stume and vsage of speche is the onely thynge by whyche we knowe the ryght and proper sygnifycacyon of any worde in so mych that yf a worde were takeâ— oute of lâ—teâ— french or spaynishe were for lakke of vnderstandynge of the tonge from whense yt cam vsed for a nother thynge in englyshe then yt was in the formare tonge then sygnyfyeth it in england none other thyng than as we vse yt and vnderstande therby what so euer yt sygnifye any where elles Then saye I now that in England this worde coÌ„gregacyon dyd neuer sygnyfye the number of crysten people as cristen peâ—â—le wyth a connotacyon or consyderacyon of theyr fayth oâ— crystendome no more then this worde assemble whych â—ath bene taken out of the frenche and now is by custume bâ—câ—men englyshe as congâ—egacyon is out of the latyne Aâ—d yet I denye â—ot but vnder those wordes both twayne may be câ—isten men spoken of For euery asseâ—â—blye and congregacyon in crysten realmes is comeÌ„â—â— made of crysten peâ—ple But they be not there called congâ—egacyoÌ„ or â—ssemble bycause thâ—â—â—e crystened but 〈◊〉 be so called though they were Iewes or SaraceÌ„s though they 〈◊〉 so knowen and â—welled in crystâ—ndâ—me I say â—â—w in lykewyse that this worde chyrche 〈◊〉 hath bene vsed to 〈◊〉 other companye thenâ— crystenâ—d in comen speâ—he 〈…〉 realme And for this cause and yet most 〈…〉 of Tyndals euyll entent I sayed and yet saye that he dyd noughte in the chauÌ„ge of chyrche for congregacyoÌ„ an holy worde for a prophane as farreforth as they both sygnyfye in our englysshe tonge in to whyche Tyndale made hys translacyon Thys was and is the thyng that I sayed and say Now in sayenge thys I do not saye vntrew though Tyndale be at hys lybertye to call a chyrche what hym lyste For neuer â—ayed I the contrary but the Tyndale where so euer he maye saye a congregacyon there he maye saye a chyrche to For though none englysshe men be wonte to speke so nor in the comune spech the worde sygnyfyeth not so nor of the chyrche that he sholde in his translacyoÌ„ haue ment of no good man wyll saye so yet may Tyndale saye so the chyrche of Sathan the chyrche of wretches the chyrche of wykked men the chyrche of lyers and a chyrche of Turkys to and yet he lyste he maye set to it the chyrche of heretykes and the chyrche of deuyls to But now though Tyndale may thus saye for hys pleasure whyche I deny not yet can he not saye that thys is the proper sygnyfycacyon of that worde whyche is the thynge that a translatour must regarde But it is a certeyâ—e fygure and maner of spekynge by whyche men vse amonge to expresse a thynge by hys contraâ—y as a man myghte say this is the wysdome of a fole thys is the trouth of a false shrew thys is the fayth of an heretyke Thus may Tyndale abuse the holy name of chyrche to any lewde thynge that he lyste but thys is not the parte of a trâ—nslatour But Tyndale now to conuycte me clerely by lernynge reason dowble coÌ„fyrmed wâ—â—h scrypture sheweth hym selfe in few wordes that he bothe lakketh lernynge and reason shamefully abuseth the scrypture These are his wordes Tyndale M. More muste nedys 〈…〉 haue ecclesia translated thorow oute all the new testâ—ment by thi◠〈◊〉 chyrche that chyrch is as comen as â—â—clesiâ— Now is eccleâ—iâ— a greke â—â—rde and was in vse byfore the tyme of 〈…〉 and taken for a congâ—egâ—cyon amonge the Hethen where no 〈◊〉 〈…〉 or of Cryste And also Luke hym selfe vseth ecclesia for 〈…〉 of Hethen peopleâ— thryes in one chapyter euen in 〈…〉 Demetrius the goldsmyth oâ— sylâ—â—rsmyth had gathered a 〈…〉 More Let vs now bygynne at the fyrste pece ye shall se what he hath M. More muste nedes graunte that chyrche is as comen as ecclesia yf he will haue this worde ecclesia thorowe oute all the new testament translated by this worde chyrche Fyrst I say that mayster More must not nedys grauÌ„te thys to Tyndale neuer a whytte For yf he turne it from a condycyonall proposycyon in to an affyrmatyue antecedent and consequent it shall sone be shewed hym that hys consequent were possyble to be false and hys antecedent trewe For it myghte be that thys worde ecclesia dyd sygnyfy mâ— thynges then the wryters of the new testament had occasyoÌ„ to speke of wythin yâ— same And then though I wolde grauÌ„t vnto Tyndale that thys worde ecclesia sholde thorowout the new testament be translated by this word chyrch yet must I not nedys be dreuen to grauÌ„te hym for all that that chyrche were as comen as eccleâ—ia bycause it sholde not yet sygnyfye those other sygnyfycacyons of ecclesia that were not spoken of wythin the newe testament And thus where Tyndale wolde vppon suche an antecedent bynde me by and by of necessyte to hys consequent it appereth that though I graunted hym the tone I must not nedys for all hys great worde graunte hym the tother at all But now though I must not nedys yet wyll I graunte hym of courtesye that yf I wyll haue ecclesia translated thorow out all the new testament by thys worde chyrâ—heâ— yâ— then I muste nedys graunte thys terme chyrche to be as comen and sygnifye as large and as many thâ—â—ges as this terme ecclesia But now when I that must not nedys grauÌ„te thys to Tyndale Tyndale may not chose but must nedys graunte me thys agayne that yf I wyll not
in stede of chyrch that he hath so substancyally defended yt yâ— in the mayntenaunce of one false foly he is now founden in twayne For by a lyke maner as he falsely translated ecclesia in to the vnknowen name of coÌ„gregacyon in such places as he shold haue translated yt in to the holy knoweÌ„ name of chyrch yâ— he this hath done of a malicyouse purpose to set forth his heresy of yâ— secret vnknoweÌ„ chyrch wherin is neyther good workes nor sacramentes so is it now ê“ued that in the same wyse of lyke malyce hath he traÌ„slated idoles in to ymages vnder the colour of the lykenes of false goddes deuylles to make the scripture seme to reproue the godly ymages of our sauyour hym selfe his holy sayntes And now vsynge hym self in his traÌ„slacyon in such malycyouse erronyous fashyon he coÌ„playneth that good men haue burned his euyll translated bokes and wyll not suffer his heresyes to go forwarde In the ende of this chapyter Tyndale telleth me that I haue ben so longe vsed in my fygures of poetry that wheÌ„ I erre most I do now as he supposeth by reason of a loÌ„g custume byleue my self yâ— I say most trew or ellys as wise peple wheÌ„ they dauÌ„ce naked in a net byleue that no maÌ„ se theÌ„ eueÌ„ so he saith yâ— I thynke myn errours so subtilly couched that no man caÌ„ spie theÌ„ As for myn errours how subtilly they be cowched I caÌ„ not tell nor what other meÌ„ 〈◊〉 spie I caÌ„ not say But surely if I coud spye any i my writiÌ„g my self I wold not faile both to coÌ„fesse it to god yâ— world forsake it Now yf I be by custume of poetrye so blynded that I can not se myne errours but wene that niy lyes were trew yet yf I fynde any that can shewe them me I shall sone amende the fawte But I haue one good lykelyhed that I do not erre or lye after suche fashyon as Tyndale telleth me in that yf it so were Tyndale thaÌ„ that pryeth there vppoÌ„ so narowly and wyth suche egles eyen as he hath were very lykely to spye it namely syth I go so bare dawnsyng naked in a net And I am sure yf he spyed any such thynge in me he wolde of hys charyte be so god to me as to tell me But surely he hath spyed none yet For all that he hath hytherto pored out and called myne errours be but hys owne tourne vppon hys owne toppe euerychone And as for my poetry verely I can lytell ellys yet not that neyther But it had ben good for Tyndales sowle and a thowsande sowles besyde that he had medled but wyth poetrye in stede of holy scrypture all the dayes of hys lyfe For of poetrye though there sholde haue comen lytell good yet coude there neuer haue comen suche an hepe of harme to crysten people as he hath of hys blynde malyce brought in to this realme by his vntrue traÌ„slatynge and more vntrew construyng of the holy scrypture of god moste malycyousely makynge the blessed worde of god to serue hym for an instrumeÌ„t to dryue meÌ„ to the deuyll And yet yf poetrye be as Tyndale calleth it nothynge but faynynge and lyenge then is he connynge inough and can I assure you make as mych poetry vppon any parte of scrypture as any poete can in englande vppon any parte of Uirgill And he vseth in his wrytyng mych playne poetrye wherwith he daunseth naâ—ed not all in a net but for yâ— more parte so starke naked wythout any nette at all that there is not the bredthe of a sylken threde to couer his poetry of whyche poyntes of hys playne open poetry I haue shewed you some all redy and shall anon shewe you many mo Then he asketh me why I haue not coÌ„tended with Erasmus whom he calleth my derlynge of all thys longe whyle for translatynge of thys worde ecclesia in to thys worde congregatio And then he cometh forth wyth hys fete proper taunte that I â—auour hym of lykelyhed for makynge of hys boks of Maris in my howse There had he hyt melo saue for lakke of a lytell salte I haue not contended wyth Erasmus my derlynge bycause I found no suche malycyouse entent wyth Erasmus my derlynge as I fynde wyth Tyndale For had I fownde wyth Erasmus my derlyng the shrewde entent and purpose that I fynde in Tindale Erasmus my derlynge sholde be no more my derlynge But I fynde in Erasmus my derlynge that he detesteth and abhorreth the errours and heresyes that Tyndale playnely techeth and abydeth by and therfore Erasmus my derlynge shall be my dere derlyng styll And surely yf Tyndale had eyther neuer taughte them or yet had the grace to reuoke them then sholde Tyndale be my dere derlynge to But whyle he holdeth such heresies stylle I can not take for my derlyng hym that the deuyll taketh for hys derlynge Now for hys translacyon of ecclesia by congregatio hys dede is nothynge lyke Tyndals For the laten tonge had no laten word byfore vsed for the chyrche but the greke word ecclesia therfore Erasmus in hys new translacyon gaue it a laten worde But we had in englysshe a proper englysshe worde therfore and therfore was no suche cause for Tyndale to chaunge it in to a worse Erasmus also ment none heresye therein as appereth by hys wrytynge agaynste heretykes but Tyndale entended no thynge ellys thereby as appereth by the heresyes that hym selfe teaâ—heth and abydeth by And therfore was there in this mater no cause for me to contende wyth Erasmus as there was to contende wyth Tyndale wyth whom I contende for puttynge in congregacyon in stede of chyrch excepte the Tyndale peradueÌ„ture meaneth that I sholde haue ben angry wyth Erasmus bycause that in stede of congregacyon in hys laten translacyon he hadde not put in our englysshe worde chyrche As touchyng Moria in which Erasmus vnder the name and person of Moria whyche worde in greke sygnyfyeth fâ—ly doth merely to wche and reproue suche fawtes and folâ—es as he founde in any kynde of people perusynge euery state and condycyon spyrytuall and temporall leuynge all moste none vnto wched by whych boke Tyndale sayth that yf it were in englysshe euery man sholde then wâ—ll se that I was then ferre otherwyse mynded then I now wryte yâ— thys be trew then the more cause haue I to thanke god of amendemeÌ„t But surely this is vâ—â—â—ew For god be thanked I neuer hadde that mynde in my lyfe to haue holy sayntes ymages or theyr holy relykes out of reuerence Nor yf there were any suche thynge in Moria that thyng coude not 〈◊〉 make any man se that I were my selfe of that mynde the boke beynge made by a nother man though he were my derlynge neuer so dere â—ow be it that boke of Moria doeth in dede but ieste vppon the abuses of suche thynges after the maÌ„ner of the dysours parte in a playe yet not so farre neyther
by a greate deale as the messenger doth in my dyalog whyche I haue yet suffered to stande styll in my dyaloge that rather yet by the counsayle of other men then of my selfe For all be yt that yt be lawfull to any man to mysselyke the mysseuse of euery good thynge and that in my dyaloge there not onely those euyll thynges rehersed but answered also and soyled and the goodnes of the thyng self well vsed is playnely confyrmed and proued yet hath Tyndale by erronyouse bokes in settynge forth Luthers pestylent heresyes so enuenemed the hartes of lewdly disposed persones yâ— men can not almost now speke of such thynges in so mych as a play but that such euyll herers wax a grete dele the worse And therfore in these dayes in which Tyndale hath god amende hym wyth thenfeccion of his coÌ„tagyouse heresyes so sore poysened malycyouse and newfangle folke that the kynges hyghnes and not wythout the couÌ„sayle and aduyce not of his nobles onely wyth his other counsaylours attendynge vppon his gracys person but also of the ryght vertuouse and specyall well lerned men of eyther vnyuersyte other partyes of the realme specyally called thereto hathe after dylygent and longe consyderacyon hadde therein ben fayne for the whyle to prohybyte the scrypture of god to be sufferd in englyshe tonge amonge the peoples handes leste euyll folke by false drawyng of euery good thynge they rede in to the colour and mayntenauÌ„s of theyr owne fonde fantasyes and turnynge all hony in to posyn myght both dedly do hurte vnto theym selfe and sprede also that infeccyone farther a brode I saye therfore in these dayes in whyche men by theyr owne defaute mysseconstre and take harme of the very scrypture of god vntyll menne better amende yf any man wolde now translate Moria in to Englyshe or some workes eyther that I haue my selfe wryten ere this â—ll â—e yt there be none harme therin folke yet beynge as they be geuen to take harme of that that is good I wolde not onâ—â—y my derlynges bokes but myne owne also helpe to burne thâ—â— both wyth myne owne handes rather then folkesh 〈◊〉 though thorow theyr own faute take any harme of them seynge that â—seâ—heâ— lykely in these dayes so to do But now after this Tyndale handeleth me full vncourtesly for he taketh awaye all my thanke and rewarde that I sholde haue had of the spyrytualtye For he sheweth them that I wrote not my boke for any affeccyon that I bere to them no more then Iudas bytrayed Cryst for any fauour that he bare to the hygh prestes scrybes and pharaseys but that I dyd the tone as he dyd the tother for the lucre that shold come therof after whych he sayth that I so sore hungre that the good man as my frend prayeth for me that I eat not to faste for chokynge Now yf the spyritualtye had ben aboute to haue gathered a dysme amonge them and geue yt me Tyndale here had loste yt me euery peny But god forgeue the good man and I do For wheÌ„ he speketh of my lucre in good fayth he maketh me laugh and so I wene he maketh many mo to that knowe well god be thanked that I haue not so mych lucre therby that I stande in so grete parell of chokynge wyth lucre as Tyndale standeth in daunger of chokynge god saue the man wyth the bones of buttred bere Now where Tyndale sayth I haue fayntely defended the thynges wherof I wryte the thynges be stronge inough and lytle nede me to defend them and also my purpose was not so mych to do that that neded not that is to wyt to defende them as to proue and make the people perceyue that Tyndale went aboute to brynge in heresyes amonge them And that nedeth now as lytle for Tyndale hath proued yt hym selfe And so lytle defence suffyseth for any reason that Tyndale layeth agaynste yt And fynally yf I were faynte therin as Tyndale sayth yet is a faynt fayth better then a stronge heresye But Tyndale yet for all this as a good godly father of his haboundaunte cheryte sayth that he charytably dothe exhorte me in Cryste by the examples of Iudas and Balaam to take hede and ferther he counsayleth me and my felowes full holyly to awake by tymes ere euer our synnes be rype leste the voyce of oure wykkednesse ascende vp and awake god out of his slepe to loke vppoÌ„ vs and to bowe hys earys vnto our cursed blasphemyes agaynst the open trewth and to sende hys herueste men and mowars of vengeaunce to repe it excepte we repent and resyste not the spyryte of god whyche openeth lyght vnto the worlde These wordes when I redde them semed me so pytthy so persaunt set and cowched in suche an hyghe spyrytuall fasshyon that they made me mych to meruayle what Tyndale had spyed in me and caused me to serche my selfe to se whyther I had vsed any suche hygh blasphemyes that the wykkednes therof were lykely to ascende vp in to heuyn awake god almyghty out of hys slepe But when I hadde ouer serched all my boke ransaked vp the very botom of my brest though I fouÌ„de in the tone som prety peccaduliuÌ„s such as I wyll not now confesse to father Tyndale bycause he sayth confessours kepe no counsayle yet coude I fynde in good fayth neyther in my brest nor in my boke I thaÌ„ke god any suche hygh blasphemyes as Tyndale so hyghly cryeth out vppon excepte he call it an hygh blasphemye to call heresyes heresyes whyche I take as helpe me god in my pore conscyence for none hygher blasphemy then to call a gose a gose Nor I. fynde no trewth that I neyther blaspheme or onys speke agaynste excepte Tyndale mene by thys open trewth all the false open heresyes that hym selfe techeth agaynste Crystes holy sacramentes Agaynst whyche kynde of false trewth I no more fere to speke then agaynst the deuyll hym selfe that fyrste founde it out Nor I can not fynde wherein I resyste the spyryte of god in openynge hys lyght vnto the worlde excepte that Tyndale take for the spyryte of god the spyryte of the deuyll of hell and for openynge of lyght vnto the worlde he take the lyghtesome lanterne of good ensample by whych the worlde maye se for a shewe of holy matrymony frere Luther and Cate calate hys nonne lye luskynge togyther in lâ—chery Now to resyste thys deuelysshe spyryte my pore spyryte for all Tyndales hygh ferefull charge is so lytell afrayed that I call hartely to the spyryte of god to quenche the fowle fyrebronde of that helly lyght that so thorowly that the worlde se neuer any suche example more And now when that I had thus thorowly serched well my breste and my boke and saw my conscyence clere farre out of any suche cause of ieoperdy then Tyndals terryble exorcysme made me not mych to trymble syth heretykes haue of olde be wont alwaye to vse suche wordes But my mind more gaue me
to laughe at his hygh solemne charge whâ—rby he 〈◊〉 wyth hys straunge wordes enchaunt and charme 〈…〉 and 〈…〉 wene he were walkynge downe to helle quykke yf he made so mych as a mumme agaynst Luthers lechery Now where as Iudas and Balaam were not mete samples for me that bere my self neyther for an apostle nor for a prophete I myghte here laye them bothe well for playne samples to hym that bereth hym selfe for a ryghte apostle that were sent to preche a new fayth to thys realme and a newe euangelyste to that maketh with his false translacyoÌ„ newe scrypture of hys owne very proprely playeth he the parte of Balaam to in that he laboreth to brynge maledyccyons vppon Hierusalem that is the catholyke chyrche of Cryste And here myghte I brynge hym other samples in also very mete for the mater of menne mych lyke hym selfe heretykes I mene of olde tyme some of later dayes not longe afore Luther And when I had rehersed vp a Ragmans roll of a â—able of heretykes and shewed a shrewed sorte that cam to sorow for theyr synne then myght I lo yf I had Tyndals spyryte spet out scrypture apace exhorte Tyndale agayn holily to take hede beware by tyme lest like heresies like malyce brynge hym to lyke myschyefe But as for me I can no suche facyon and therfore lettyng all such hygh processe passe of rype synnys and ascendyng to heuyn and wakyng god out of slepe and set hym on husbandry and dryue hym to heruest wyth mowers of vengeaunce and repers of rype synnys leuynge Tyndale in hys vengeable parables I caÌ„ no more I but praye god amende hym and make hym a good man Agaynste Tyndales vsynge this worde senior and elder and not preste Tyndale ANother thynge whych he reâ—â—â—eth is that I interprete this greke worde presbyteros by this word seâ—ioâ—â— Of a treuth seniour is no very good englyshe though seniour and iunior be vsed in the vniuersyties but there came no better in my mynde at that tyme. How be it I spyed my faute sâ—â—s longe yere M. More told it me and haue mended it in all the workes whyche I seus made and call yt an elder More Tyndale in thys chapyter at great length declareth fâ—r his excuse four fayre vertues in hym self malice ignorâ—â—â—â— errour and foly For in hys longe babelynge he hath neuer a clause but it falleth in one of these foure and some one in all foure as ye shall se ferther in hys wordes folowynge Here in the begynnynge leste he sholde seme to haue lerned the knowledge of his ignoraunce by my monycyon he sayth that he perceyued hys faute hym selfe byfore amended it to For where as for lakke of fyndynge a better englysshe worde he sayth that he had translated thys worde presbiteros in to thys worde senyours in englysshe he hath now amended it and made it elders Here hath he done a grete acte now that he hath at laste founde out elder He hath of lykelyhed ryden many myle to fynde out that For that worde elder is ye wote well so strauÌ„ge and so lytell knowen that it is more then meruayle how that euer he coude fynde it out And one thynge I promyse you yf it were not worse then senior he hadde not founde it yet For thys is a lyke amendynge as yf he wolde where a man were blynde of the tone eye amende hys syghte by puttynge out the tother Thys word presbiter in the greke as it sygnifyeth that thyng that men call a preste in englysshe was called somtyme senior in latyn But thys thynge that englysshe men call a preste and that the greke chyrche called presbiter and the latyn chyrche also and somtyme seniâ—r was neuer called elder neyther in the greke chyrch nor the latyn nor the englysshe neyther Now thys beyng thus iudge good readers your selfe whyther of two bad it was not better when he called a preste a senior by whyche worde it was called somtyme at the leste wyse in some langage then when he calleth a prest an elder by whyche worde it was neuer called nor knowen neyther in one langage nor other And so ye maye se how wysely by longe leysure and warnynge to Tyndale hath amended hys mater Tyndale And in that he maketh heresye of it to call presbiteros an elder he condemneth theyr owne olde latyn texte of heresye also whiche they vse yet dayly in the chyrche and haue vsed I suppose this .xiiij. hundred yeres For that texte dâ—â—th call it an elder lyke wyse More Se the synceryte and playnnesse of the good man It is no maystâ—y for hym to make proper solucyons yf hym selfe maye make the obieccyons suche as no man obiecteth nor wolde obiecte agaynst hym but hym selfe For here he sayth that I make it heresie to call presbyteros an elder whych thyng I neuer sayed nor thought But I sayed saye and trewth I saye that Tyndale dyd in his englysh traÌ„slacyon chauÌ„ge the word of preste in to senior of an heretycall mynde and entent to set forth his heresye wherby he techeth that prestheâ— is no sacrament For as for this worde elder how coulde I then charge hym wyth yt as an heresye when he had not then translated elder but senior tyll now that he hath by lenger laysour amendyd yt and made yt worse So that ye may fyrste here se a pece of his playne poetrye double proued and double reproued by whyche he layeth vnto me the thynge that I neuer sayed nor had at that tyme eyther cause to saye or occasyon to thynke vppon Nor nowe I saye not that yt is heresye yf he haue as he saith translated synnes that tyme presbyteros by this worde elder but I say he doth it with the mynde of an heretyque to set forth his heresye For ellys I wolde not call it heresye yf one wolde traÌ„slate presbyteros a blok but I wold say he were a blok hed And as very a blokhed were he that wold translate presbyteros an elder in stede of a preste for that this english worde elder sygnyfyeth no more a preste then this greke worde presbyteros sygnyfyeth an elder stykke And yet this thynge beynge so properly spoken as ye se he sayth that the olde translacyon in latyne redde in the chyrch this .xiiii. huÌ„dred yere calleth presbyteros an elder in lyke wyse whych worde of Tyndale I wolde call a lye sauynge that yt is more then a lye by a syllable Tyndale In the .v. chapyter of the fyrste of Peter thus standeth yt in the latine text Seniores qui in vobis sunt obsecro ego consenior pascâ—te qui in vobis est greâ—â— Cristi The elders that are amonge you I beseche whyche aâ—â—â—â— elder also that ye fede the flocke of Criste whych is amonge you There is presbyteros called an elder More Herd ye reder euer such a nother Is presbyteros here called an elder in the olde latine traÌ„slacyoÌ„ I fynde there this word seniores where the greke
so repent in herte shall neuer do so more wyllyngâ—â— and of purpose syth he that hathe repented 〈◊〉 harte may do so agayne wyllyngly and of purpose to he that dyd 〈…〉 â—sed purpose doth yt yet for all that 〈…〉 he do yt wyllyngly And for coÌ„clusyon though yt may be sayâ—◠〈◊〉 good men of good mynde in exhortacyon in perseuerauÌ„â—◠〈◊〉 good workes agaynst the 〈◊〉 of such as 〈…〉 agayne that they 〈…〉 lyghtenes geueth 〈…〉 to thynke and saye yet to put ye for a rule and 〈…〉 as Tyndale doth that who so repeÌ„teth onys in haâ—te â—â—all 〈…〉 wyllyngly of purpose that they that synne 〈…〉 lyngly and of purpose dyd neuer repent in harte is very â—alse doctryne a very playne heresye Tyndale And yf I beleued the gospell what god hath done for me in Criste I shold surely loue hym agayne and of loue prepare my selfe vnto his commaundement More It is vndowtely a very good occasyon to moue a man to loue god agayne when he beleueth the loue that god hath to hym and the thynges that of very loue god hath done for hym But yet it is not trew that Tyndale sayth that euery man whyche byleueth thys loue doeth so loue god agayne that of loue he prepareth hym selfe vnto goddys commaundementes I dare say that saynt Peter loued hym well and yet he bothe forsoke hym and forsware hym to But a man that well byleued sholde peraduenture prepare hym to goddys commaundementes yf neyther the worlde the flesshe nor the deuyll drewe hym bakke nor suche heretykes worse yet theÌ„ all â—â—re 〈◊〉 the râ—te of ryght bylefe out of hys harte And 〈◊〉 standen the wordes of Tyndale wyth Luthers holy doctryne whyche he precheth agaynste the lybertye of mannys fre wyll wherof yf man haue none as theyr heresye techeth then how can it be trewe that a man can of loue prepare hym selfe to the commaundementes of god And fynally yf it be trew that Tyndale sayth that is to 〈◊〉 thâ—â— yf he beleued the gospell he sholde surely prepare hym selfe to the coÌ„maundementes of god and then yf thys be trew 〈◊〉 as in dede it is that he that doeth as Tindale doeth enfeete hys neyghbours wyth dedely poysened heresyes agaynst the blessed sacramentes therby maketh theyr bodyes be burned in erthe wyth hys bokes and theyr soul ys burned in helle wyth hys heresyes is the most trayâ—â—rouse 〈◊〉 of goddys commaundementes that can be 〈…〉 very clerely that Tindale byleueth not 〈◊〉 gospell 〈◊〉 all and surely no more he doeth And now cometh he and sayth that I knowe that all y◠〈…〉 for hys defence in the chaunge of chyrch preste 〈…〉 penaunce and suche other is trew bycause 〈…〉 as he â—ayth the greke afore hym where as I by 〈…〉 knowledge as I haue of greke latyn and of our owne 〈…〉 tonge togyther knowe hys defence dothe 〈…〉 And that haue I so clerely proueâ— that to the 〈…〉 of bothe hys 〈◊〉 and hys â—oly there shall not greately nede yâ— knowlege of thâ—â— tonges nor twayne neyther but an indyfferent reader that vnderstandeth englysshe and hath in hys hed any reason or naturall wyt For all be it that the more lernynge the reder hath the more madnesse he shall perceyue in Tyndales defence of these thynges afore remembred yet he that hath wyt and no lernyng at all shall clerely perceyue inoughâ— And to that entent onely haue I taken the labour 〈◊〉 answere hys defence to make it open to lerned and vnlerned bothe that he bryngeth to the mater after hys two 〈◊〉 musynge thereuppon â—eyther insyghte of any substancyall lernynge nor yet any profe of reason or naturall wytte but onely a rasshe malyciouse frantyke brayde furnysshed with a bare bolde assercyon and affyrmacyon of false poysoned heresyes For sauynge to make thys appere I neded not to touche those poyntes at all For euery man well knoweth yâ— the entent and purpose of my dyaloge was none other but to make the people perceyue that Tyndale chaunged in his translacyon the comen knowen wordes to th enteÌ„t to 〈◊〉 a chauÌ„ge in the fayth As for ensample that he chauÌ„ged the worde chyrche in to thys worde congregacyon bycause he wolde brynge it in questyon whyche were the chyrche anâ— set forth Luthers heresye that the chyrch whyche we sholde byleue and obaye is not the comen knowen body of all crysten reames remaynynge in the fayth of Cryste not falleâ— of nor cut of wyth heresyes as Boheme is and some parteâ— of Germany but that the chyrche whyche we sholde byleue and obay were some secrete vnknoweÌ„ sorte of euyll lyuyng and worse byleuyng heretykes And that he chauÌ„ged preste into senior bycause he enteÌ„ded to set forth Luthers heresye techynge that presthed is no sacrament but the 〈◊〉 of a laye man or a laye woman appoynted by the people to preche And that he chauÌ„ged penauÌ„ce into 〈…〉 he wolde set forth Luthers heresye techyng that penauÌ„ce is no sacrament Lo thys beyng yâ— onely purpose entent of 〈…〉 Tyndale cometh now and expressely 〈◊〉 the same thynge that I purposed to shew For he 〈◊〉 wryteth openly those false heresyes in dede that I â—â—yed then â—â—teded after to do so that hyâ— selfe sheweth now that I 〈◊〉 then shewâ— the people trewth thâ—â—â—eded I to make 〈◊〉 answere syth hys owne wrytyng sheweth that he made his translacyon to the entent to set forth suche heresyes as I sayed he dyd For as for that that Tyndale calleth them none heresyes but the very fayth forceth me but lytle for so hath euery he retyque called his owne heresyes syns crysteÌ„dome fyrste byganne But for all that the deuyll wyll be the deuyll though Tyndale wolde call hym god And I made my boke to good crysten people that know such heresyes for heresyes to gyue theÌ„ warnynge that by scripture of his owne false forgynge for so is his false translacyon and not the scrypture of god he sholde not bygyle them and make them wene the thynge were otherwyse then yt is in dede For as for such as are so madde all redy to take those heresyes for other then heresyes and are thereby them selfe no faythfull folke but heretyques yf they lyst not to lerne and leue of but longe to lye styll in theyr false bylyefe yt were all in vayne to gyue them warnynge thereof For when theyr wyllys be bent thereto and theyr hertys set thereon there wyll no warnynge serue them And therfore syth Tyndale hath here confessed in his defence that he made suche chaunges for the settynge forth of suche thynges as I sayed yt is inough for good cristen men that know those thynges for heresyes to abhorre and burne vppe his bokes and the lykers of them wyth them so that as I say I neded none answere to all his defence at all sauynge to make as I haue done both lerned and vnlerned folke perceyue hym for an vnlerned fole And yet defendynge hym self so fondely and teachyng open heresyes so shamefully he
of his chyrche what he wyll haue byleued and what he will haue done theÌ„ is quyte gone a good pece of theyr plesaunt preachynge of theyr euangelycall lyberty For then where as they preache that every man is at lybertye to eate what he lyste they leue no man at lybertye to eate a pore â—uddynge But hys chyrch is sure inough by that they knowe well that theyr hole assent is not wrought wythout the spyryte of god assystent in hys chyrche And that them selfe be hys very chyrche they be sure inough by that they se hym specyally present wyth them by hys contynuall myracles whych fayle in all false chyrches yâ— be fallen out of thys All whych false chyrches thys trewe chyrche of cheryte Crystes proper badge ceaceth not to sollycyte and labour to reuoke and receyue agayne into the porte of saluacyon and the hauen of heuen excepte the deuyll by theyr dedâ—ly malyce drowne them vtterly wyth dreuynge them downe into the depâ—he of indurate harte thorowly perced with theyâ— pestyleÌ„t heresye And yet I say ferther that thys obiection of dyuerse aâ—tycles byleued by the chyrch in diuerse tymes wyll not serue the heretykes for theyr defence syth that they teche suche thynges for trew as not onely all the holy doctours and all the holy sayntes of euery tyme but also all the hole chyrche of euery tyme haue euer taughte to be false Or ellys they muste shewe vs some one man at the leste wyse that in thys fyftene hundred yere before theyr dayes hath holden for good and lyefull that such persons as haue vowed chastyte to god mayâ— ronne out of relygyon and wedde harlottes at theyr lybertye Now yf Tyndale wyll take holde of that yâ— I haue sayd that god is at hys lybertye to reuele a thynge when he wyll and that he hath now reueled thys new artycle to hym and hys holy felowes they must I say then proue vs by myracles that they be goddes trewe messengers for ellys why sholde we byleue them If he say that they proue it by scrypture in that they preche hys worde I saye agayne the scrypture I knowe for goddys worde but them I knowe not for goddys messengers bycause they wyll not he aknowen of all goddys wordes for they wyll byleue no word of hys wythout wrytyng and also his wordes wryten they mysconstrue And therfore concernyng the worde of god wryten the questyon lyeth bytwene vs not vppon goddys worde but vppon the ryght vnderstandynge therof wherin whyle all the olde holy doctours be quyte agaynste them we say now to Tyndale that of reason we maye not byleue hym For in these poyntes wherin we vary as for ensample that freres maye wedde nonnes eyther the scrypture is playne and easy to perceyue or dowtuouse and harde to vnderstande If it be playne easy we can not thynke but that amonge so many of yâ— old holy wyse and well lerned doctours some one at the leste in all thys longe whyle sholde haue ben as able to perceyue it as Luther and he now so sodeynly And on the tothersyde yf he saye that in that poynte the scrypture is darke hard then maye we wyth reason thynke that Luther and he and frere Huskyn to maye as well mysse vnderstande it now as all those holy wyse well lerned sayntes all thys fyftene hundred yere So that yet agayne we be come to the poynt that Tyndale yf in hys doctryne dependynge vppon thexposycyon of scrypture he loke to be byleued that freres maye wedde nonnes agaynst the doctryne of all those olde holy doctours that in theyr exposycyons calle it abomynable lechery he muste nedys do myracles as they dyd or els must Luther or frere Huskyn or some one of theyr felowes at the leste For where he sayth in one place of hys boke agaynst me that we maye requyre no myracles of them yf he had sayd bycause they can none do I wold haue taken it for a fynall answere and wolde haue troubled hym no more wyth that troubelouse questyon But now bycause he sayth it nedeth not and wolde it sholde seme that the myracles which Cryste and hys apostles dyd sholde serue for the profe of hys doctryne my conscyence can not suffer me to let hym go so For syth our questyon is not vppon Crystes hys apostles wordes whyche theyr myracles proued trewe but vppon the exposycyon and vnderstandynge that Tyndale and Luther gyueth to them whyche exposycyons all they that god hath euer hath synnes the apostles dayes hytherto by myracles proued to be hys trewe prechers haue playnely taught to be false Tyndale maye not saye for shame but that for hys doctryne taughte by those exposycyons yf he wyll be byleued agaynst many prechers proued trewe by many myracles he must do myracles to or ellys yf we byleue hym before all them we be mych more then madde specyally but yf some of hys coÌ„pany and felowes in hys heresye dyd some myracles for hym whyche our lorde be thanked he suffereth no false chyrche of heretykes to do but hys owne catholyke chyrche alone And now in suche thynges as god seeth moste nede and the heretykes moste busy to assaute hys chyrche there doth he moste specyally fence in hys chyrche wyth myracles As in the reuerence of ymages relykes and pylgrymages and worshyppynge of sayntes and hys holy sacramentes and moste of all that holy sacrament of the auter hys owne blessed body for whych maner of thynges he hath wrought and dayly doth many wonderfull miracles and the lyke of those that he wrought in the tyme of hys apostles to shewe and make profe that hys catholyke chyrche is hys perpetuall apostle how many nacions so euer fall therfro and how lytell and small so euer it be lefte And therfore we saye not as Tyndale bereth vs in hand that the trouth of god dependeth vppon the multytude of mennys mowthes but that the catholyque chyrche illustrate wyth the myracles of god and taughte by the spyryt of god is set vppon the hygh mountayne of the stone that is Cryste and therfore can neuer be hyd but that the myracles whyche god euer worketh and euer shall worke therin doeth and shall make the lyghte of the doctryne shyne and shewe the ryght waye to heuen And these myracles hath god often wrought to the conuersyon and amendement of iewys and heretykes often to the confusyon and burnynge vppe of obstynate iewes heretykes wyth the begynnynge of theyr hell euyn here in erthe Now Tyndale denyeth not but that there be and haue ben suche myracles but he sayeth that they be done by the deuyll But then saye I that in hys so sayenge he is worse then euer was the deuyll For the deuyll durste neuer say so myche hym selfe as dyd the iewes and nowe Tyndale saye But when he sayth it I saye yet agayne he must shewe me why there be no myracles amonge all hys false chyrches of heretykes or ellys to calle the trew myracles of god done
shold alway those few be the very chyrch of god vppon erth bycause of the ryght bylyef all though that of those few some were nought of lyuyng And amonge them shold there myracles of god coÌ„tynue to shew the presence of god and strength them in the fayth make his chyrche knowen that such as are out may fynde the way to yt to come in yf they wyll as he ceaced not to walke wyth the Iewes by miracles all though ther were many nought tyll he quyte forsoke them whyche by his promyse he shall neuer do Crystes catholyque chyrche Tyndale God taught Adam greater thynges then to wrytte More If he meane of spirytuall reuelacyons it maketh lytle to yâ— purpose yf of worldely thynges I thynke well he taught hym thynges of greater necessyte as peraduenture tyllage of the â—â—â—â—â—de But as for wrytynge I wene as long as he lyued was founden yet longe after Adams dayes For though Adam hadde as gâ—â—at a wit as any man hath hadde synnys yet he fouÌ„de not out euery thyng that many a more mene wyt hath founden synnys excepte Tyndale tell vs that Adam prented bokes and made glasses and shotte gonnes to Tyndale And that there was writyng in the world long ere Abraam ye and ere Noe do storyes testyfye More Full well But there is none of those storyes any thynge sybbe to saynt IohnÌ„s gospell He fyndeth not in them Quâ— vidit testimonium perhibuit nor verum est testimonium eius There were storyes whyche as saynte Austayne sayth wrote of thynges done thousandes of yeres byfore the world was made And though yt were proued as yt is not that there were wrytynge from the bygynnynge yet as I sayed byfore yt wolde not proue that there was holy scrypture that tyme whyche is the onely wrytynge that muste be proued or ellys all that he proueth is as good vnproued Tyndale Not wythstandynge though there hadde bene no wrytynge the preachers were euer prophetes gloryouse in doynge myracles wherewyth they confyrmed theyr preachynge More Thys is ryght well sayed and very largely and lakketh nothynge now but euen to be as well and largely proued whych wheÌ„ he shall so largely proue me by playne scripture wythout whych by Luthers owne rule Luthers owne scoler maye not loke to be byleued he shall haue myche a do I trow For he sayth that by all this tyme whyche was the space of so many hundred yeres yâ— preachers were euer prophetes and gloryouse in doynge of miracls wherwyth they confermed theyr preachynge Ueryly Noe we fynde that he confyrmed his preachynge wyth myracle that was wyth the flode that drowned the whole worlde But ellys in that age from Adam to his day what myracles fyndeth Tyndale done by the preachers Now from Noe to Abraam how many myracles fyndeth he done by the preachers Nor from Abraam to Moyses neyther he fyndeth not very many so that yt wyll I wene be very harde for hym to proue that the preachers dyd alwaye proue all that whyle theyr preachynge by myracles But I am very glad to here hym saye so and amâ—â—teâ—ts to discharge hym of yâ— profe and agre that he sayeth trouth And then say I that syth hym selfe agreeth that for yâ— profe of the prechers doctryne prechynge all one thynge downe fro generacyon to generacyon by the space of so many hundred yeres holy preachers and myracles were so necessary that for the necessyte therof he presumeth that it was so it is reason that he agre also that by thys hole tyme of fyftene hundred yeres of Crystes chyrche holy preachers wyth myracles haue ben as necessary And then syth he muste also graunte that god hath had as mych cure of the chyrche of hys sonne as he had of any chyrche before he muste grauÌ„te that of eche thynge necessary god hath as well prouyded for it as euer he dyd for any wherof it foloweth that syth holy preachers and myracles were alwaye so necessary in the other that god alwaye prouyded them so plentuousely that they neuer lakked he hath in lyke wyse all thys whyle prouyded that in hys owne chyrche holy preachers and myracles haue also contynued and haue neuer lacked And then foloweth forther that syth in all thys whyle there hath neuer ben in any chyrche of heretykes as many as haue ben of them neyther saynt nor myracle but bothe twayne euer plentuousely contynued in thys onely chyrche whyche is the comen knowen catholyke chyrche of Cryste theruppon foloweth it fynally that onely it is the trewe chyrche of god and that all the other be false chyrches of the deuyll Now yf Tyndale wyll saye that it is now not lyke for there is no cause neyther of holy preachers nor miracles bycause we haue the scryptures as Abraam sayed vnto the ryche gloton that lay in hell and wolde haue Lazarus sent into his fathers howse to gyue hys brethern warnyng Lucae 1â— they haue all redy Moyses and the prophetes and yf they byleue not them no more wyll they byleue one that were come hense neyther thys wyll not serue Tyndale For they were not excusable whyche then hadde the scryptures consyderynge that the scrypture had bene and yet euery age were well testyfyed with myracles in that the prophetes and prechers therof and the places where it was preched and occupyed in goddys seruyce were by god illustrate and set out wyth myracles in so mych that he dyd not onely sende in to the worlde his prophetes and trewe preachers with myracles 4. Regum 13. but also by the bonâ—s of them raysed and sent in to the worlde dede men also to gyue the worlde warnynge to though he lysted not to do so mych at that wreches requestâ— And fynally when all was to lytle and that they fell to false constrewynge of the scrypture and so byganne to multyply theyr false doctryne that they made the better byleuynge folke the fewer and the false parte yâ— greater he taryed not longe but cam hym selfe to reforme yt bygynne his owne specyall chyrche wyth hys owne preachynge and hys holy apostles not wyth bare dyspycyons and berynge men in hande the wordes of the scryptrue were playne inough but wyth plentuouse miracles to reproue the false doctryne of the false pharysees yâ— had bygoÌ„ne to teache coÌ„trary to tehyr olde holy fathers byfore And thus hath god euer synnis sent holy sayntes in to his chyrch as the reason of his goodnesse requyred that he shold And where these new pharisees these manyfolde sectes of heretykes both now do and fro yâ— bygynnynge haue done mysse constre the scrypture of god agaynst the mynde of Cryste and his apostles our lord sendeth and euer hath sent not onely good vertuous preachers agaynste them but also reproueth and euer hath reproued theyr moste commen heresyes agaynste sayntes and sacramentes wyth dayly meruelouse miracles and neyther sufferth nor neuer â—uffred any one to be wrought amonge all them but suche as he worketh sometyme where he maketh an image to
hath all thynges necessary to be byleued wryten in scrypture whyche thynge is as false and reason yt is that yt be false when he concludeth yt vppon false But Tyndale perceyuyng well hym selfe how fals his fundacyon is how feble hys byeldynge is that he setteth theruppon hath therfore to make yt stande the surer vndershoren vnderpropped it wyth certayne other stronge postes made of roten redys One is that all thynges be now bysyde the olde testameÌ„t opened rychely in the new testameÌ„t that byfore were promysed Thys vnderpropper is not very proper for to bere vppe his byldynge for yt is the selfe same thynge that is in questyon For we saye that yf he take the new testament for the boke of that scrypture wryten he muste not onely saye but also proue that euery thynge is opened therein that of necessyte for our soule helth is to be byleued or done this is the thynge selfe that is in debate And therfore whyle he doth but tell vs and proue it not and so vnderproppeth his assercyon wyth yt selfe he sheweth hym self as wyse as one that leste his roten house sholde fall wold go about to take downe the roefe and pull vppe the grouÌ„dsell to vndershore the sydes wyth the same Then setteth he to yt a nother shorer that all thynge is in the new testament fulfylled that was promysed byfore also that there is no promise byhynde of ought to be sheâ—ed more saue the resurreccyon Nowe this shorer ys so surely sette that yt is shortely blowen downe quyte yf a man say no more but what than For bysydes that as there laye mo promyses in the olde testament then euery man well vnderstode so maye there yet peraduenture lye mo promyses vnperceyued yet eyther by Tyndale or me both in the old and in the new But I saye bysydes this and bysyde this also that Tyndale sayth here vntrew for bysyde the resurreccion there are yet vnfulfylled as well dyuerse promyses of tokeÌ„s thynges that shall come byfore the resurreccyon all those thynges perde that are promised to come after as the iudgement yt selfe and blesse or payne euerlastynge to the iudged bodyes but yet I saye bysyde all this what yf all the promyses be fulfylled sauynge the resurreccyon dothe that proue that there coulde be nothynge of necessyte byleued wythoute scrypture Is there nothynge to be byleued but promyses If god tell me a thynge or byd me do a thynge am I not bounde to byleue the tone nor to do the tother bycause they be no promyses If Tyndale speke wysely in thys I muste nedes confesse my foly for in good fayth I can se no wyt therein But fynally he setteth to a myghty stronge poste able to bere downe all when he sayth that Cryste and all hys apostles and all the angellys of heuen coulde preache no more then is preached of necessyte to our soules And therforeâ— and for all the wyse and well framed reasons whyche I haue reproued and proued vnresonable byfore he sayth that to receyue a new artycle of fayth wythout scrypture were as profytable for our soules as smoke for sore yies This is a substauncy all shorer lo and very surely set I assure you For fyrste I myght agre all that he sayeth and his purpose neuer the more proued For where he sayeth yâ— all is all redy preached that is necessary or can be necessarie to the soule yf I wold answere and say that is very trew all suche thynges is all redy preached but all suche preachyng is not wryten where were now Tyndales coÌ„clusyon But I wyll not be so madde to grauÌ„te hym that all is eyther writen or preached eyther that can be of necessyte to mannes soule For who wolde be so madde to thynke that god knoweth not many thynges that we know not and that he can yf yt please hym reuele and shew vs any of those and commaunde vs to byleue them when so euer he lyste And when he so wold do theÌ„ were they of necessyte to our soules saluacyon to be byleued And he maye when yt please hym commaunde vs to do some other thynges that he hath not commaunded yet and then sholde we be bouÌ„de to do them And he maye commaunde to leue vndone some thynges that he hath byfore commaunded to be done and then shâ—ldâ— we be bounden to leue them vndone And this is so playne and euydent to euery man that hath any sparke of reason in his hedde that I wonder where Tyndale hadde lefte his wyt when he wrote thys And this was also a wyse temperaunce of the mater that he sayeth for these wyse causes that yt were as holsome for our soules as smoke for sore yies yf we receyued any newe artycles of fayth wythout scripture If the yien of his soule were not sore blered or starke blynde wyth the smoâ—e oâ— the smoky fyre of hell he wolde sone haue sene wyth hys two yien hys two folyes in these few wordes For he sayth if we receyued a new artycle wythout scrypture wherby he confesseth that yf god wyll geue vs a new artycle in scrypture as he gaue Moyses yt were not vnholesome And what caÌ„ he then saye but yf god gyue yt wythout scrypture he must be byleued but yf Tyndale dare saye that the treâ—th of god do depende vpon his wrytynge and yâ— his worde be nought worth tyll yt be wryten A nother folâ— is thys that he sayth yf we receyue a new article and then all the samplesâ— that he putteth be olde and we shall putte hym some other as old Tyndale What holpe yt me to byleue that our ladyes bodye is in heuen More If thys be a new byleued artycle lette Tyndale tell wheÌ„ thys bylyef beganne he shall fynde that yt hath ben thus byleued euen froÌ„ the tyme of her deceace And now the thyng that almoste .xv. C. yere hath ben byleued he calleth a neâ— artycle But now how lyke is thys bylyef of this newe artycle of .xv. hundâ—ed yere olde vnto hys ensample of smoke sore yies For fyrste yf yt holpe hym not yet at the leste yt huâ—ted hym not as smâ—ke doth sore yies But syth it is trew and taught vnto the chyrche by the spyrytâ—â—f god whyche ledeth the chyrche intâ— euery troâ—th and â—hâ—â—hyrche growâ— into the consent and argument theâ—of by the same spiryte ofâ— concorde and agrement whych maketh all the house of onâ— myâ—de and though the bylefe therof were very new yet yt helpeth hym and doth hym good to byleue yt as yt helpeth hym and doth hym good yf he byleue other trouthes whych god hath reueled and shewed by wrytynge byfore excepte Tyndale trust not god vppon his word but yf he geue hym his wrytynge there vppon and his letters patentes vnder his great seale For ellys why sholde yt not helpe hym as mych to byleue that our ladyes body and soule is in heuen syth god hath taught his chyrche so to byleue as yt helpeth hym to byleue
the fewer yf the doctryne were in them to But now let vs se whyther of vs two playe the false iugeler I that tell you that euery necessary poynt of bylefe is not wryten in saynt IohnÌ„s gospell or Tyndale that wolde make you wene that what so euer ye fynde not wryteÌ„ there ye were not bounden to take it for any necessary poynt of fayth For ellys yf Tyndale wolde grauÌ„te that saynt IohnÌ„ had not wryten in dede euery necessary poynt of fayth then is it as good for Tyndale that saynt IohnÌ„ say so as that in dede it be so Let vs therfore leue disputyng vppon the word and loke vppon the dede and se whyther it be so or not If a man seke amonge the other euangelystes he shall fynd mo necessary thynges then one lefte out in saynt IohnÌ„ and in eche of them somwhat that some other hath And yf a man loke ferther in the boke of fayth wryten in the hartes of Cristes hole catholyke chyrche he shall fynde some thynges that none of them all hath wryten and yet necessary poyntes of fayth as I haue shewed you samples and shall But now bycause of Tyndale let vs take some one And what thyng rather then the last souper of Cryste hys mauÌ„dye with hys apostles in whych he instytuted the blessed sacrament of the auter hys owne blessed body and blode Is this no necessary poynt of fayth Tyndale can not deny it for a necessary poynt of fayth though it were but of hys owne false fayth agreynge wyth Luther Huskyn or zuinglius And he can not saye that saynte IohnÌ„ speketh any thynge therof specyally not of the instytucyon Nor he can not saye that saynt IohnÌ„ speketh any thyng of the sacrament at all syth that hys secte expressely denyeth that saynt IohnÌ„ ment the sacrament in hys wordes where he speketh expressely thereof in the .vi. chapyter of hys gospell And thus ye se howe wysely Tyndale sykketh wyth me in the sentence of saynte IohnÌ„s wordes when the thynge that I entende thereby is proued by his dede And yet bycause Tyndale wyll nothynge alowe but the word if he pull frome that word of saynt IohnÌ„ I shall proue hym the same purpose by the worde of saynte IohnÌ„s mayster our sauyour Cryste hym selfe and saynte IohnÌ„ shall bere me recorde that yt was Cryste that sayed yt For oure sauyour lo as wytnesseth saynte IohnÌ„ in the .xvi. chapiter Iohan. 16 sayed vnto his dyscyples hym selfe I haue yet many thynges to saye to you but ye can not bere them now but when that the spyryte of trewth ys come he shall teache you all trewth Lo here ye here our sauyour saye hym selfe that he lefte and wolde leue some thynges and that great thynges and therfore of lykelyhed necessarye that they sholde not here tyll after his passyon that the holy goost sholde come and teache them and well ye wote that saynte IohnÌ„ endeth his boke byfore And therfore as for thys authoryte of saynte IohnÌ„ that I layed in my dialoge Tyndales answere wherin he calleth me a iugler hath not yet iugled awaye the force but hath by his false caste of iuglynge fetely conuayed hym self out of the fryenge panne fayre into the fyre where as I shew in my dyaloge that yt is not wryten in scrypture that our ladye was a perpetuall virgyne and yet yt is a necessarye poynt to be byleued This is his answere thereto Tyndale And how bryngeth he in the perpetuall virgynite of our lady whych though yt be neuer so trew is yet none artycle of our fayth to be saued by but we byleue yt wyth a storye fayth bycause we se no cause resonable to thynke the contrarye More By this answere yt appereth well that god be thanked he fyndeth not yet the peoples deuocyon so farre falleÌ„ from our lady that he dare be bolde to saye all that he thynketh For ellys he wolde saye more then he doth And lyke as he forbedeth folke to pray to her and specially mysselyketh her deuowt antem of Salue regina so wolde he not fayle yf he saw the people frame all after hys fantasye to blaspheme her in this mater of a nother fashion as other of his felowes haue done byfore his dayes But now for the meane whyle he is contente that men may thynke them selfe at lybertye to byleue it or not byleue yt as they lyste as a thynge of no necessyte to be byleued vppoÌ„ saluacyon of our soules And full well he woteth that though he say now that he can se no reason why to thynke the contrary yet if he could bryng vs ones in the mynde that there is no parell therin he myght afterward well inough tell vs when he wolde the contrarye and saye that wyth better lokynge theron he hath now founden that Eluidius other elder heretyques of the same sewte sayde therin very well and that reason and scrypture is wyth them and that saynt Austayne and saynte Hierome all the remanauÌ„t say wrong bycause theyr parte is not wryten in scrypture This wyll not Tyndale herafter let to say when he lyst yf he maye make vs wene in the meane whyle that we maye chuse whyther we wyll byleue thys poynt or not But I saye that in that poynte Tyndale sayeth wronge For in any suche thynge as we be bounden to byleue yf I byleue yt in dede yet byleue therwyth that I maye lawfully chuse whether I wyll byleue yt or not I saye that in so byleuynge I byleue nought nor my bylyefe shall not serue me Then saye I farther that this artycle is suche that we be boundeÌ„ to byleue yt For he that byleueth yt not is an hâ—retyque as yt playnely appereth hoth by saynt Austayn in his boke to quod vult deus and by saynte Hierome in hys boke agaynste Heluidius and by the other holy sayntes and martyrs who as saynt Hierome saynt Austayne reherse dyd wryte agaynste heretykes byfore called them Antidichomarians that is to say Maries aduersaryes Then say I fynally that for as mych as it well playne appereth that all those holy coÌ„nynge men and blessed sayntes therwyth all the whole catholyke chyrch bysyde haue euer hytherto taken the perpetuall virginyte of our blessed lady for so sure a poynte of crysten fayth and bylyefe that they haue euer condemned the contrary for an heresye and then syth yâ— artycle is not in holy scrypture wryten but that the wordes of scrypture not well vnderstanden seme to say the contrary I may do agaynst Tindale his felowes well and fully coÌ„clude that there is some thynge necessary to be byleued and yet is not writen in scripture And so to my secund argument ye fynde his answere fonde For as for his story fayth wyth onely whych he sayth we byleue this poynt I shall touche yt I trust in â—uch wyse his felynge fayth ther wyth when I come thereto that euery man shall fele wyth hys fyngers endes that
go preache he wold make mych a do of his word byddynge theÌ„ go wryte But nowe ye shall se what answere he maketh what he bringeth for the shote ancre of all his shyfte to proue that they wrote euery necessary poynte Tyndale I answere that this precepte loue thy neyghbour as thy selfe and god aboue all thynge went wyth the apostles and compelled them to seke goddes honour in vs and to seke all meanes to coÌ„tinue the fayth vnto the worldes ende Now the apostles knew byfore that heresyes sholde come and therfore wrote that yt myght be a remedy agaynste heresyes as yt well appereth IohnÌ„ .xxi. where he sayth these are wryteÌ„ that ye byleue and thorow bylyfe haue lyfe And in the second of his first pistle he saith these I write bycause of them that deceyue you And Peter and Paule there to warne vs iÌ„ many place Wherfore it is manifeste that the same loue coÌ„pelled them to leue nothyng vnwriten that shold be necessarely requyred and that yf yt were lefte out sholde hurte the soule More Lo now haue ye herde his vttermost wherby he preueth vs that they wrote all to gether that is of necessite to be knowen whych he proueth not as ye se by any scrypture proper for the poynte as that any of them hadde any specyall commaundement to write but that theyr cheryte droue them to yt whyche he proueth by a deduccyon vppon this coÌ„maundement loue god aboue all thynge and thy neyghbour as thy selfe For theruppon as he deduced afore that women may synge masse and muste in tyme of nede so he deduceth now that the apostles were by the same cheryte dreuen by theyr wrytynge to prouyde agaynste heresyes whyche they saw sholde come and that coulde they not suffycyently do but yf they prouyded a lyke agaynste all heresyes ergo they wrote euery necessary trouth This argument is god wote full pore syke and sore myght syt at saynte Sauyons a beggynge wyth a dyshe and a clapper for any thynge that yt can helpe yt selfe yt is so blynde and lame lakketh so many lymmes yet hath it one the mo for me that Tyndale forgate to sette in But yet lakketh he bothe hys legges for all that and his yien and his handes and his brayne to For he muste sette in that they whych wrote knew well euery heresye that euer shold spryng after theyr days and this muste he proue by scrypture He muste also sette in that no mo of the apostles knewe that poynte but onely those that wrote or ellys that the tother coulde not wryte nor god coulde not teache them or fynally that eache of them redde others wrytynge and so saw that all was writen by theyr felowes then caried all theyr felowes writynge wyth them into the countres where them selfe preched and lefte yt there And this muste he proue me by scrypture for ellys he saueth not vpperyght the cheryte of saynte Andrew nor saynte Bartlemew that wrote nothynge at all nor of saynt Peter in wrytyng lesse then saynt Poule nor of saynt IohnÌ„ for leuynge out the consecracion at Crystes maundye He must also put in that they saw that wythout wrytyng god coude not kepe the poyntes of fayth amonge the people for ellys the cheryte strayned them not of necessyte so sore to put all togyther in wrytynge He muste also put in that all theyr wrytynge is kepte reserued saufe and euer shall tyll the daye of dome for ellys he seeth what foloweth And then knoweth he well that besyde corrupcyon of bokes myche therof is loâ—te but yf he wyll saye that in that scrypture was nothynge necessary but that it is in thys the remayneth And then must he proue me that by scrypture ere I beleue hym And ouer thys must he put in that they haue wryten all thynge as clere as they myghte haue done to answere all heretykes wythall for the thynge longed to cheryte to yf of cheryte theyr purpose was to wryte agaynste all heresyes And yet whyche I had almost forgoten he muste put in to thys argument also that they haue gyuen vs warnynge that they haue wryten all togyther that eyther than neded or at any tyme after shold nede to be byleued or done vppoÌ„ payne of dedely synne For thys is one of the very chyefe poyntes of all therfore thys muste he proue by scrypture For ellys they lefte vs in dauÌ„ger to byleue some other thynges mo then they wryte namely synnys the some wrote not so mych as theyr felowes sum confesse that they taught by mouth more then they wrote and some wrote nothynge at all and of that the other wrote good parte loste and of that wrytynge that remayneth some corrupted by writers some by prenters and mych so hard that no man vnderstandeth And fynally muste he put in to thys argument also that after theyr dayes Cryste wolde neuer shewe nor reuele any thynge to hys chyrche more nor byd any of them any other thynge byleue or do then was put in wrytynge all redy by hys apostles or ellys that though he wolde byd them any forther thynge at any tyme after eyther byleue or do yet wolde he neuer be angry wyth them though they wold neyther byleue that he told them nor do that he bode them but tell hym well and playnely to hys teth that yf he wolde be byleued or obayd he shold haue made his apostles wryte it Thys poynt specyally muste Tyndale amonge other proue me by playne and euydent scrypture For ellys were it ye wote well a great parell for any man to saye nay to goddys specyall byddynge though that specyall byddyng were not specyfyed in scrypture but yf god haue playnely spoken in scrypture that he wyll neuer whyle he lyueth eyther tell or bydde any other thynge then he hath all redy reueled or coÌ„maunded in scrypture Now se you good readers how syke how sore and how feble his argument is by whyche he wolde proue vs that the cheryte of the apostles droue them to put all necessary thynges in wrytynge But yet hadde there almoste one reason of hys passed me vnware whiche yf I hadde lefte vntowched Tyndale wolde haue sayed I hadde dissymyledâ— and lefte vnanswered his chyefe reason of all For where as his feble argument before touched was but the cause that droue the apostles to leue nothynge vnwryten he hath yet one that sheweth the cause why and wherfore god wolde hym selfe haue euery necessary thynge wryten and that ye wote well muste nedys be stronge and therfore what strength is in it ye shall here Thus he sayth Tyndale Now syr god hath made his lasie â—nd euerlastynge testament and no more byhynde then the apperynge of Cryst agayne And bycause he wyll not styrre vp euery daye a new prophete with a new myracle to coÌ„ferme new doctrine or to call agayne the olde that was forgoten therfore were all thynges necessary to saluacyon comprehended in scrypture euer to endure More If Tyndals bare worde be
wryten in the .xxiii. of Mathew where he sayth Uppon the cheyre of Moyses are now set the scrybes and the pharyseys All thynges that euer they say vnto you obserue them and do them but the thynges that they do do not you For they bynde vnportable burdayns and lay them vppon other mennes shoulders and wyll not so mych as wyth a fynger of theyr owne ones styrre them By these wordes wolde frere Barons that there sholde nothynge be taught but onely scrypture And ouer that he wolde by these wordes that a man myghte breke all the lawes that the hole chyrche maketh besyde the expresse preceptes of god conteyned in the scrypture wythout any scruple of conscyence so that he do it secretely where there were no weke conscyence of feble faythed folke offended where as vndowted those wordes neyther proue hys purpose in the fyrst and proue clene agaynst hys purpose in the seconde For begynnynge wyth the seconde those wordes playnely declare that bycause our sauyour bothe then intended to shewe and often before had shewed that the scrybes pharyseys were nought yet lest the people myghte happe to thynke that he wolde therfore they shold be set at nought and not obayed he gaue them not warnynge onely but also playne commaundement that syth they were in the authoryte and occupyed the place of Moyses that gaue the law were the rulers and gouernours of the people they sholde obay them and fulfyll that they commaunded them And leste the people sholde take hym as frere Barons doth and wene bycause he spake of Moyses chayre that therfore they sholde obaye hym in nothyng ellys but as far as they shold rede in Moyses bokes and vppon euery thynge that they sholde be boden sholde saye shew me that wryten in Moyses bokes Cryste therfore commaunded them that they sholde obserue and fulfyll all theyr commaundementes Not meanynge by that generaltye that they sholde obaye any commaundement that by god were forbeâ—en nor to set goddes law asyde for mennys tradycyons as hym selfe sayed in the xv of Mathew but forbedynge them to refuse to fulfyll the coÌ„maundement of theyr rulers wherof there were no mencyon made in scrypture where the commaundement tended to vertue good maners or goddes honour Now the wordes of saynt Austayn whyche frere Barons bryngeth in do nothynge proue the poynt that Barons wolde proue by theÌ„ For he wolde haue it seme that saynt Austayne taketh those wordes of Crystes as hym selfe doeth But saynt Austayne there by the allegorye of the chayre of Moyses occupyed by the scrybes and pharaseys expowneth those wordes of a preacher that is not the very trew shepeherd that in his preachyng seketh nothynge but the profyte of the shepe and the glory of Cryste but that is a mercennary preacher and an hyred whyche seketh hys owne temporall aduauntage and commodyte Of whom saynte Austayne gyueth warnynge that yet euen suche preachers nought as they be yet for the whyle that they be suffred to preache in all that they saye well and accordynge to the law of god we sholde here them alowe them therin and lerne to lyue therafter But on the tother syde yf they wolde when they haue begon wyth good thynges for a countenaunce to gete them in credence then 〈◊〉 of suche thynges and preache of that they seke for that is to wyt fantasyes of theyr owne inuencyon and for them selfe and theyr owne commodyte therin be they not to be herd or byleued And thys is the mynde of saynte Austayne as euery man that wyll coÌ„syder hys wordes in the place where they be wryteÌ„ the .xlvi. tretyce vppon saynt IohnÌ„ shall very playnely perceyue And therby shall he that there redeth theÌ„ as playnely perceyue that those wordes of saynt Austayne brought forth by Barns do nothynge proue Barns purpose that is to wyt that those wordes of Cryste do dyscharge euery mannes conscyence of obedyence vnto any preceptes lawes or tradycyons of men other then be wryten in scrypture For the thynge that saynt Austayne there sayth dyuers holy men entreatyng the same wordes in the lyke allegorye of doctryne and preachynge do saye and confyrme in â—ykewyse and neuer wyse man wolde saye otherwyse But the thynge that Barns sayth neuer was there yet eyther good man or wyse man that wolde agree For those wordes of Cryste sauynge by waye of the allegorye seme not so properly to pertayne to techynge of the scrybes and pharaseys as to theyr coÌ„maundemeÌ„tes and byddynges as well appereth by the wordes folowynge where he byddeth that they shold obserue and do all the thynges that they saye to them And that he sholde meane not onely the preceptes wryten in the law but also theyr other commaundementes besyde suche as were not superstycyouse or vnlawfull to be kepte is clerely declared by the wordes of Cryste folowynge where he sayeth in thys wyse For they bynde importable burdayns and laye them on other folkes shoulders but them self wyll not put a fâ—nger of theyr owne therto As though he wolde saye Syth they syt vppoÌ„ Moyses chayre and occupye hys place and be your gouernours do ye all that they coÌ„mauÌ„de you all though the burdayns that they bynde and laye on your shoulder be so great heuy that they seme in a maner unportable but do not as they do For they wyll them selfe leue them all vndone and not set onys a fynger to yâ— doyng of them But I warne you do not you so I know ryght well that those wordes maye be well expowned on the tother fashyon afore remembred vnderstandyng in the allegory by the chayre of Moyses the doctryne law of Moyses And then may those greuouse importable burdayns be called the burdens of the olde lawe wyth whyche saynt Peter and the apostles were not contente that some other wolde lade the crysten people commynge vnto Criste saynge that neyther them selfe nor theyr fathers coulde bere tâ—em Thus I know well men may expowne those wordes and good menâ— holy men and connynge men so haue done and other in lykewise after the maner that I now do both twayne haue therein done very well For one texte maye be dyuersely in dyuerse senses expownedâ— though Luther and Tyndale wyll haue now but one tyll a nother may better make for theyr owne purpose for then they wyll not let to make fyftene But though those wordes may be so expowned yet as I sayde yt appereth well that the very proper sense is of theyr owne tradycyons bysyde Moyses lawe in that Cryste sayde that the scrybes and pharasyes dyd bynde greuouse burdayns and importable and lay them on other meÌ„nys shoulders For euery man well woteth that neyther the scrybes nor the pharysees dyd bynde and lay on meÌ„nys shouâ—ders the burdens of the lawe but our lorde hym selfe And whyche at that tyme whyle he wolde yet haue theÌ„ kept he wolde not haue dyspraysed wyth callyng them greuous and importable though the apostles dyd afterwarde when tyme cam to caste them
For as well be those thynges to be byleued as these And therfore let vs esteme thobseruauÌ„ces of the chyrce worthy to be byleued so that yf any thynge be delyuered to vs by the chyrch neuer aske farther questyon Saynte Hierome interpâ—etynge the .xi. chapyter of the fyrste epystle to the Corynthyes sayth in this wyse Saynt Poule preuented them to th entent none of them shold say where is this wryten nor shold wyth any other argumeÌ„tes stryue agaynste this reason And therfore he sayde we haue no suche custome to stryue and contende neyther we nor yet the chirche of god whych is rather geueÌ„ to myldenesse then to contencyon and stryfe Theophilactus expowneth the same place lykewyse and sayth For as myche as the Corinthyans wolde perchaunce collour this mater by certayne subtyltyes and wente about yt by syllogysmys sophistycacyons alledgynge that these thynges were neyther good nor bad but of theyr nature indyfferent therfore saynt Poule sayde we haue no such custome other to be coÌ„tencyouse or a man to let his here grow in length or a woman to go bare hed neither haue we sayd saynt Poule this custome nor the chirche of god that ys nor the other crysten people neyther And therfore by suche frowarde argumeÌ„tes ye seme to resyste and withstande not onely me but also the chyrche yt selfe These wordes therfore of saynte Poule maye make the herers ashamed to do any thynge contrarye to the custome receyued by the chyrche Saynte Leo also an holyman and a cunnynge in a sermon that he maketh in the faste at whytesontyde sayeth in thys wyse There is no doute my welbeloued brethern but that euery crysten obseruaunce is of Crystes techynge and what so euer is receyued of the chyrche into a custome of deuocyon commeth of thapostles tradycyon and of the doctryne of the holy goost which holy spiryte euen now also doth rule all faythfull hertes wyth his own instruccyon to make them kepe them obedyently and vnderstande them wysely Saynte Austayne in the boke of the baptysme of yonge chyldren agaynste the Pelagians wryâ—eth in thys wyse Chyldren whiche be baptysed be taken in the nomber of faythfull peple and that onely by an olde cononyke sure grounded custome of the chyrche And in a nother place agayne Now sayth he we haue shewed you afore that the lyttell chyld beleueth that he is accouÌ„ted amonxst men yâ— be baptysed Thys holdeth the authoryte of our mother holy chirch and this holdeth the rule of the sure grouÌ„ded fayth who so runneth agaynste this fortresse this inexpugnable wall shall all to frush hym selfe Cassianus in the .xi. collacyon the .xii. chapiter Thauthoryte of the olde fathers and the custome of our elders contynued by the space of so many yeres vnto this day although the cause of them be not perceyued by vs muste we fyrmely byleue And that custome must we with perpetuall obseruauÌ„ce reuerently fulfyll in such wyse as yt was delyuered of olde Saynte Austayne in the .cxviii. pystle to Ianuary sayeth thus Those thynges whych are not wryten and yet we by tradycyon obserue them such I meane as are thorow Crystendome kepte we may well vnderstande that they be kept as thynges ordeyned and commaunded vnto vs eyther by the apostles them selfe or ellys by generall counsayles the authoryte wherof is in the chyrch moste necessary As for ensample that the passyon of Cryste and his resurreccion and hys ascensyon into heueÌ„ and the comynge of the holy goost from heuen are yerely celebrate with a solemne feaste and what someuer thyng we fynde that is obserued amonge all people where the chyrche of Cryste ys sprede Many thynges be not founde in the wrytynges of the apostles nor in the counsayles of those that cam after them whyche yet bycause they be kepte of all the hole chyrche we byleue them to haue hadde no nother bygynnynge but by the tradycyon and commendacyon of the apostles vnto vs by them selfe Saynt Austayne in the fourth boke of baptisme agaynst the Donatystes The thynge that the hole chyrche holdeth and is not instytute and ordeyned by counsayles and that not wytstandynge hath ben euer obserued we very well by leue that yt neuer byganne but by the authoryte of the apostles tradycyon Saynte Austayne in the fyfte boke of baptysme agaynst the Donatistes sayth Many thynges are there whyche the vnyuersall chyrche holdeth and therfore be well byleued that the apostles haue commaunded them though they be not founde in wrytynge Saynte Austayne in the .xi. chapiter of the .ix. boke of his confessyons wrytynge of the departyng of that holy blessed woman his mother Monica sheweth that all be yt before tyme she had ben very studyous of the place where she wold be beryed longed specyally to be layed by her husbande yet at the tyme that she lay dyenge beynge then farre from the place where her husbande lay shewed vnto saynt Austayne then psent wyth her that she cared not in what chyrch they beryed her bodye but she prayed them very effectually to remember her in his masse whyche thynge I wryte the ye may se that the masse and prayenge for soules therin ys not so new a thynge as Tyndale wolde haue yt seme And in the nexte chapyter after saynte Austayne sayeth these wordes spoken vnto god Her body was caryed forth we folowed cam agayne wythoute teares And ouer yâ— in those prayers whych we made vnto the when the sacryfyce of our redempcion was offered for her the corps beyng set by the graue as the maner is there I wept not in those prayers neyther but all the day was I in a greuouse secrete sorowe And afterwarde in the laste chapyter of the same boke saynt Austayne prayeth for his mother vnto our Lord amoÌ„g many other wordes in thys wyse I good lorde that art my prayse and my lyfe the god of my hart settynge a syde for the whyle my mothers vertues and goodnesse for whych I ioyfully geue the thaÌ„kes wyll now beseche the for her synnys Here me gracyously good lorde for that medycyne of out woundes whyche honge vppon the crosse and now syttynge at thy ryght haÌ„de doth call vppon the for vs. I know good lorde that she dyd workes of mercy and that she hartely dyd frogyue the dettes vnto her dettours Forgyue thou good lorde her dettes to her suche also as she hath fallen in by so many yeres after the water of helthe Forgyue her good lorde forgyue her I beseche the and enter not wyth her into iudgement And afterwarde he sayth And I beleue good lorde that thou hast done all redy the thynge that I praye for For she when the daye approched of her departynge nothyng bethought her how she myghte haue her body costely couered or dressed wyth spycâ—s nor longed for a suÌ„ptuouse sepulchre nor cared not to be beryed in her owne countrey These were not the thynges that she any thynge requyred vs but onely desyred vs to haue her in remembraunce at thyne auter to
hys owne holy spyryte shall dwell therwyth all dayes vnto the worldes ende then be we sure not onely whyche are the holy scryptures and the sure holsome exposycyons therof but also whych are the tradycyoÌ„s delyuered vnto the chyrche by god of whythe some were delyuered by the apostles them selfe and some by hys holy spyryte synnes And what so euer Tyndale bable to the contrary god is yet at as mych lybertye to teache hys chyrche forther what trouth he wyll hereafter and to delyuer it what tradycyon he wyll hereafter and to commaunde hys hole chyrche to byleue and obaye hym therm as well I saye hereafter as euer he was before For I wolde fayne wytte of Tyndale yf the hole chyrch shall neuer byleue nor do nothynge as of necessyte but that is all redy wryten in scrypture why shall any one man be bounden to byleue or do any thynge as of necessyte though god byd hym by mouth yf it be not wryten in scrypture And yf he wyll saye no more maye any one man be boundeÌ„ neyther then putteth he away quyte all reuelacyoÌ„s whych I neuer herd any man hytherto deny but that god maye reuele and man be bounden to byleue and obaye And surely yf he graunte that any one man maye be bounden therto so maye then for aught that I can se or aught that he can saye the hole chyrche in lyke wyse Fynally there is no dowte but that ere the new testameÌ„t was wryten men were bounden to byleue thynges without scrypture And then syth Tyndale wyll nothynge byleue vs wythout scrypture and he maye not loke of reason that we sholde any more byleue hym wythout scrypture then he vs let Tyndale now tell me therfore by whyche texte of scrypture in all that is wryten is that bond releaced and dyscharged And where are we eyther commaunded or lycenced nothyng to byleue but yf it be conteyned in that scrypture that is now wryten whyche thynge yf he can not shewe â—as he can not in dede then abydeth that bond styll to byleue the thynges that the catholyke chyrche techeth vs as the worde of god to be byleued and yet vnwryten as the same bonde stode and bounde vs before to byleue those necessary thynges that now be wryten Now yf Tyndale answere thys argument and saye that he nedeth not to laye forth any texte of scrypture dyschâ—rgynge vs of that bonde but that it is inough for hym to proue that all thynge that is of necessyte is by the apoâ—â—â—es wryten and that no suche thynge as we be bounden to â—â—leue or do is by them selfe vnwryten yf Tyndale answere vs thus then is he but wheâ—e he was For then shall we yet agayne do as he nedys muste and neuer may brynge in one texte of scrypture by whyche he maye proue that all suche thynges be wryten whyche thynge when he can not do yf he wyll then be playne and confesse the trouth that he can not proue hys owne parte but wyll then byd vs proue our owne parte and wyll tell vs that lyke as he sayth that the apostles dâ—d put all in wrytynge wherof he fayleth hys profe so we saye that they dyd leue dyuers thynges vnwryten and that of those be some of such thynges as the chyrche now byleueth and obserueth that are not wryten in scrypture and wyll byd vs go proue hym that for our parte and wyll saye that ellys he is no more bounden to byleue vs then we be to byleue hym yf Tyndale wyll as I saye confesse the trouth that he can not proue hys owne parte and therfore wyll byd vs go proue ours then shall we tell hym that we proue oures by the manyfolde playne textes of holy scrypture afore remembred bothe of saynt JohnÌ„ of saynt Poule myghte yet adde dyuers other wyth whyche Rosseus an englysshe man hath longe a go proued that poynte vnto Luther and that so clerely that as Tyndale knoweth Luther was neuer able to answere one worde agayne And I saye ferther that we proue our parte that is to wyt that the apostles gaue thynges vnto the chyrche wythout wrytynge whyche haue in the chyrche contynued besyde the scrypture thys I saye we proue to Tyndale by the selfe same meanys by whyche Tyndale proueth vs that he knoweth the scrypture to be the scryptureâ— For yf he wyll saye as he sayeth in hys boke agaynste meâ— that he knoweth the scrypture by the same meanes that the eagle knoweth her byrdes meanyng that as she knoweth theÌ„ by a secrete inwarde instincte of nature so he knoweth the scrypture by a secrete inwarde instyncte of the spiryte of god I saye that we know the tradycyons taught by god and hys apostles by the same secrete inwarde instyncte of the same spiryte But then saye we farther that the same spiryte dyd teache the chirche to know whych was the very scrypture byfore it dyd teche yâ— Tyndale And Tindale had not byleued that the scrypture was the scrypture yf the chirche hadde not tolde hym so Nor the holy spyryte hadde not wrought wyth Tyndale towarde the bylyefe therof yf Tyndale when the chyrche tolde hym so hadde done as he doth sette the chyrche at nought For synnes that he so hath done he not onely byleueth not the tradycyons of god geuen to his chyrche by his apostles and his worde vnwryten but also byleueth lesse of the scrypture then he dyd byfore And I saye that god by hys worde vnwryten dyd teache his chyrche to know his wordes wryten and his tradycions also whyche he taught the chyrche by his apostles and made the chyrche agre therin by his spyryte whiche maketh men of one mynde and one custome in the chyrche and whyche spiryte kepeth both the wordes wryten and the wordes vnwriten in perpetuall knowledge and obseruaunce in his chyrche accordynge as the very worde of god vnwryten that is hys naturall worde of hym selfe bygoten seeth necessarye abydynge wyth his chirche for euer accordynge to his owne promyse And now if Tyndale aske with which chyrche I saye wyth hys catholyque chyrche wyth hys chirche in whyche onely chirche he wurketh miracles wyth his chirche whyche he commauÌ„deth men to here and obay and fynally wyth the same chirche by whyche chirche Tyndale lerned to know whych is the scripture whych chirch lette Tyndale tell me why he shold not as well byleue when yt telleth hym these thynges the apostles dyd teache and dâ—lyuer wythout wrytynge as he byleueth yt when yt telleth hym these bokes the apostles dyd wryte If nothynge hadde be wryten Tyndale muste haue byleued the chirche in all to gether And why sholde he now for the wrytyng of parte for that all is wryten ye se well he can not proue byleue the chyrch the lesse in the remanaunt that remayneth yet vnwryten or for that that was wryten at one tyme byleue the chyrche the lesse in all that yt teacheth after vnwryten whyche thynge Tyndale doth and that so farre forth that where as god worketh mirycles
in whyche as my lorde of Rochester sayed it appereth playne that saynt Poule sayth hym selfe that he taught thynges by mouth whyche he wrote not And what sayth Tyndale to it there he sayth nothyng ellys in this world but as he sayth here that the thynges whiche saynt Poule taught by mouth were the selfe same thynges that he wrote And then goeth he forth wyth a longe babelary parte to no purpose parte playne heresye and fareth as though hym selfe had standeÌ„ by all the whyle that saynt Poule taughte any thynge by mouth Now whyther hys wâ—rdes be to purpose or not I pray you consyder your selfe we saye that these sacramentes and many holy ceremonyes vsed in the chyrche in the masse and in other partes of dyuyne seruyce were taught by the spyryte of god and delyuered by hys blessed apostles Nay sayth Tyndale that coude not be for all necessarye thynges that they taught they wrote Proue that say we and take all But we wyll proue by saynt Poules owne wordes that he taught thinges that he wrote not For he byddeth the Thessalonicensis kepe and obserue well all that he had taught theÌ„ eyther by mouth or letters then that none of them were any necessary poyntes that poynt we byd Tindale proue His profe therin ye haue herd before that yf the apostles wrote not all suche thynges what coude it auayle that they wrote any thinges at all And that reason ye remember that we haue aâ—swered before and proued it a great foly to reken that in our owne realme no law byndeth that is vnwryten bycause there be many wryten or that theyr wrytynge were vnprofytable that wrote vs parte bycause they wrote vs not all But now in that place of the obedyence where the rude rybaude rayleth agaynste the reuerende father my lorde bysshop of Rochester he sayth styffely that none of those thynges whyche we speke of and specyally sacramentes or ceremonyes were any of those thynges that saynt Paule taught by mouth Then aske we hym wherby know you that Mary sayeth he for I shall tell you what he taughte He taughte the same that he wrote and hys tradycyons were the gospell that he preached and good maners and vertues and some good custumes to that be synnes for abuses chaunged as â—ysâ—ynge eche other And some he taught as preceptes and some as good counsayâ—es as virginite and wydolye chastyte not to â—ynne heuen therby For neyther cyrcumcysyon nor vncyrcumcysyon is any thynge at all but the kepynge of the commaundementes is all togyder but that they myghte be without trowble and the better wayte on goddys wordes and the frelyer serue theyr bretherne Here I passe by his heresyes that in these wordes appere bothe agaynst vyrgynyte and wydoly chastyte whyche he meaneth to be nothynge worth as touchynge any rewarde to be gyuen for them in heuyn For though he say no ferther here but that they wynne not heuyn whyche euery man agreeth yet meaneth he ferther as he declareth in many other places and as it here appereth by hys ensample of circumcysyon I let passe also hys heresye concernyng the cyrcuÌ„cysyon whyche wyth hys false vnderstandynge of saynte Poule he wolde haue taken â—o haue standen in no stede at all towarde heuen and by the same reason no more he wold that baptysme neyther as he hath oftentymes declared I let passe also that by those wordes of saynte Poule whyche hym selfe now bryngeth in that the kepynge of the coÌ„maundemeÌ„tes is all togyther hys owne heresyes be ouer throwen For yf the kepynge of the coÌ„maundementes be all together then fayth alone is not all together But rather as he maketh cyrcumcysyon nothynge bycause the coÌ„maundemeÌ„tes be all so myghte he make fayth nothyng bycause the coÌ„maundementes be all togyther But he maketh saynt Poules wordes to serue hym for hys iuglynge stykke For saynte Poule meaneth of cyrcumcysyon alone in the olde lawe wyth fayth and good workes as saynte Iamys speketh of fayth And in the new law now it is nothynge at all in dede These wordes also of saynt Poule destroye Tyndales heresye that mennys good workes be not rewarded in heuyn and that it is idolatrye to serue god wyth any bodyly workes or to do any of theÌ„ to come the rather to heueÌ„ For yf the kepyng of the coÌ„maundementes be all togyther and some of them be bodyly workes a man maye lawfully do them for goddys sake and to his worshyp to and haue his rewarde in heuen to But now lettyng these poyntes passe as I saye I wold aske Tyndale whyther amonge those poyntes that saynte Poule taught by mouth whyche he wrote not were any thynges necessarye to be byleued or done vppon parell of our soules helth If he say ne then destroieth he his whole reason that he made afore for the contrarye where he sayde that yf the apostles taught any suche thynges wrote them not what auayleth all those thynges that they wrote If he saye nay but that all the thynges that he taught by mouth were thynges of lytle weyght and not worth the wrytyng and that therfore he wrote vnto the Corinthyes that all the other thynges he wold dispose and ordayne hym selfe at his commynge bycause he rekened them not worthy to occupy place in hys pystle yf Tyndale tell vs thys we wyll aske hym who tolde hym so and wherby he knoweth that saynte Poule taught the people by mouth no mo thynges nor of none other kynde then Tyndale sayth he dyd was hym self at that tyme companyon to saynt Poule and that so coÌ„tynuall and so vnseparable that daye nor nyght he neuer departed from hym but euer watched hym so surely that he coulde neuer saye nothynge but Tyndale stode by and herd hym Tyndale in this poynt well perceyueth hym selfe howe harde a parte he hath to proue And therfore seynge that he hath entrede a mater that he can not ende hath sayd that he can neuer make good at laste he waxeth angry And bycause he can not tell all thynge that saynt Poule taught as he beganne to take vppon hym he coÌ„cludeth nothyng but that saynt Poule taught none of the sacramentes nor ceremonyes that Luther and he reproue And thus he sayth Tyndale But that the apostles gaue vs any blynde ceremonies whereof we coulde not knowe the reason that I denye and also defye More Forsoth saue for the ryme I wolde not geue a ryshe neyther for his denyeng nor for hys defyenge nor for any reason that he layeth forth therfore For where he sayth that yt is contrary to the lernynge of saynt Poule euery where I say that therein Tindale sayth not trew For saynt Poule reproued but the superstyciouse truste that the iewes hadde as well in theyr ceremonyes sacramentes as in the workes of theyr law wythout fayth and iustyce and dedes of cheryte and the superstycyon 〈◊〉 them also that thought theym selfe bounden of necessyte to kepe them styll after the new lawe promulgate and spred about wheÌ„