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after_o for_o in_o this_o place_n he_o say_v no_o more_o but_o neither_o do_v caluyn_n say_v he_o nor_o any_o of_o these_o father_n mention_n either_o the_o use_n of_o the_o apostle_n or_o practice_v of_o the_o ancient_a church_n nor_o do_v any_o father_n speak_v of_o all_o these_o ceremony_n together_o nor_o can_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o the_o sign_n and_o form_n of_o these_o ceremony_n be_v justify_v by_o father_n lo_o here_o 3._o or_o 4._o hole_n open_v to_o run_v out_o at_o at_o first_o that_o albeit_o caluyn_n confess_v these_o ceremony_n to_o be_v very_o ancient_a and_o that_o the_o foresay_a old_a father_n and_o doctor_n do_v mention_v they_o in_o their_o write_n yet_o do_v they_o not_o mention_v the_o use_n of_o the_o apostle_n or_o practice_v of_o the_o ancient_a church_n before_o their_o day_n be_v not_o this_o a_o pretty_a shift_n as_o though_o themselves_o be_v not_o sufficient_a witness_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n the_o second_o be_v that_o 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chapter_n of_o ceremony_n 6._o in_o the_o 2._o 3._o 4._o and_o five_o centurye_n of_o the_o magdeburgian_o and_o he_o shall_v see_v the_o antiquity_n of_o all_o these_o point_n against_o sutcliffe_n in_o this_o place_n the_o second_o place_n object_v by_o e._n o._n to_o o._n e._n be_v in_o the_o same_o page_n where_o he_o say_v it_o be_v no_o catholic_a doctrine_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n place_n to_o denounce_v they_o accurse_v that_o shall_v not_o hold_v baptism_n to_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n be_v these_o in_o the_o four_o canon_n concern_v baptism_n si_fw-mi quis_fw-la dixerit_fw-la baptismum_fw-la liberum_fw-la esse_fw-la 5._o hoc_fw-la est_fw-la non_fw-la necessarium_fw-la ad_fw-la salutem_fw-la anathema_n sit_v if_o any_o man_n do_v affirm_v that_o baptism_n be_v free_a that_o be_v to_o say_v not_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n let_v he_o be_v accurse_v and_o it_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v re_fw-mi well_fw-mi voto_fw-la as_o 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humble_a request_n unto_o the_o k._n majesty_n to_o entreat_v he_o most_o humble_o to_o ordain_v and_o name_v such_o and_o so_o many_o as_o shall_v please_v his_o majesty_n be_v man_n of_o sufficient_a learning_n &_o virtue_n before_o who_o the_o say_v l_o plessis_n may_v verify_v from_o leaf_n to_o leaf_n &_o from_o line_n to_o line_n all_o authoritye_n which_o he_o have_v cite_v in_o his_o say_a book_n and_o that_o this_o trial_n be_v make_v by_o such_o copy_n and_o book_n as_o have_v be_v print_v in_o those_o place_n and_o in_o those_o universitye_n which_o they_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n hold_v not_o for_o suspect_v in_o witness_v whereof_o i_o the_o aforesaid_a plessis_n mornay_n have_v here_o put_v to_o my_o hand_n &_o seal_v at_o paris_n the_o 20._o of_o march_n in_o the_o year_n one_o thousand_o six_o hundred_o the_o answer_n of_o the_o b._n of_o eureux_n to_o the_o former_a challenge_n the_o 25._o of_o march_n 1600._o chap._n iii_o have_v receive_v good_a reader_n this_o challenge_n whereof_o not_o only_o the_o report_n and_o brute_n but_o the_o copy_n also_o themselves_o and_o already_o spread_v abroad_o write_v and_o subscribe_v by_o the_o l._n of_o plessis_n and_o consider_v that_o this_o be_v not_o a_o challenge_n of_o one_o private_a man_n to_o another_o but_o rather_o of_o one_o party_n or_o side_n against_o the_o other_o it_o seem_v that_o the_o interest_n of_o the_o common_a cause_n of_o god_n church_n do_v not_o permit_v either_o to_o let_v it_o pass_v without_o answer_n or_o to_o answer_v it_o secret_o for_o as_o the_o end_n of_o this_o his_o offer_n be_v in_o case_n it_o be_v refuse_v by_o such_o refusal_n and_o silence_n of_o catholic_n to_o gain_v a_o public_a justification_n of_o his_o book_n and_o writing_n so_o be_v it_o convenient_a that_o may_v answer_v to_o the_o same_o be_v also_o public_a &_o that_o the_o enemy_n of_o god_n church_n do_v not_o get_v that_o advantage_n as_o to_o publish_v one_o thing_n &_o conceal_v the_o other_o and_o therefore_o to_o the_o end_n that_o both_o heaven_n and_o earth_n may_v see_v and_o behold_v how_o i_o do_v proceed_v in_o this_o matter_n b._n i_o make_v it_o know_v by_o this_o my_o hand_n write_v both_o to_o he_o and_o to_o all_o other_o that_o shall_v read_v the_o same_o that_o i_o do_v accept_v of_o his_o offer_n and_o challenge_v and_o do_v require_v of_o he_o again_o to_o cause_v the_o same_o to_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n and_o not_o to_o end_v only_o in_o word_n and_o for_o my_o part_n that_o all_o hindrance_n thereof_o may_v be_v remove_v i_o protest_v that_o i_o be_o present_o ready_a and_o do_v desire_v out_o of_o hand_n to_o come_v to_o the_o very_a point_n of_o show_v the_o falshoode_n without_o byndinge_v myself_o to_o that_o large_a &_o wearisome_a methood_n of_o examine_v his_o late_a
about_o the_o premise_n i_o have_v not_o think_v amiss_o to_o resent_v in_o part_n by_o this_o postscript_n what_o occur_v unto_o i_o in_o this_o behalf_n 1._o and_o first_o of_o all_o be_v the_o wonderful_a providence_n of_o almighty_a god_n in_o conservation_n and_o continuation_n of_o the_o old_a ancient_a catholic_a apostolic_a &_o universal_a faith_n leave_v at_o the_o assension_n of_o our_o saviour_n unto_o his_o follower_n and_o visible_a church_n that_o then_o be_v and_o spread_v by_o they_o miraculous_o in_o very_o short_a space_n over_o all_o the_o world_n church_n and_o continue_v ever_o since_o by_o tradition_n and_o succession_n of_o one_o age_n to_o another_o until_o our_o time_n under_o the_o protection_n and_o mighty_a powerable_a defence_n of_o the_o same_o lord_n and_o saviour_n and_o under_o the_o government_n of_o his_o only_a espouse_v the_o say_v catholic_a church_n 4._o against_o which_o church_n &_o descent_n of_o faith_n therein_o 3._o though_o many_o new_a fantasye_n and_o device_n of_o particular_a man_n which_o holy_a scripture_n call_v heresy_n have_v spring_v up_o in_o every_o age_n with_o fresh_a and_o glisteringe_a title_n 2._o of_o pure_a gospel_n of_o new_a reveyled_a truth_n of_o godly_a reformation_n and_o other_o like_a pretence_n and_o that_o god_n for_o more_o trial_n and_o exercise_n of_o his_o say_a church_n end_n &_o for_o the_o speedy_a redress_n perhaps_o of_o some_o abuse_n and_o corrupt_a manner_n creep_v into_o some_o part_n thereof_o have_v permit_v the_o say_v new_a invention_n to_o prevail_v grow_v and_o ruffle_v for_o a_o time_n as_o by_o experience_n of_o all_o age_n we_o have_v see_v yet_o ever_o in_o the_o end_n he_o bring_v the_o same_o to_o confusion_n and_o shame_n accord_v to_o those_o word_n of_o the_o psalm_n 76_o percussit_fw-la inimicos_fw-la suos_fw-la in_o posteriora_fw-la opprobrium_fw-la sempiternum_fw-la dedit_fw-la eye_n he_o strike_v his_o enemy_n in_o the_o hinder_a part_n that_o be_v towards_o the_o end_n of_o their_o ruffle_n and_o confound_v they_o with_o everlasting_a shame_n which_o prophesy_v of_o the_o psalmist_n be_v principal_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o heretical_a enemy_n haer_fw-mi as_o tertullian_n epiphanius_n &_o other_o ancient_a father_n write_v against_o they_o do_v interpret_v and_o the_o experience_n of_o like_a end_n in_o all_o heresy_n past_a do_v make_v it_o plain_n and_o this_o shame_n and_o confusion_n of_o heresy_n &_o heretic_n heresy_n which_o god_n providence_n do_v here_o foretell_v and_o in_o time_n also_o bring_v to_o pass_v so_o manifest_o as_o the_o whole_a world_n may_v be_v witness_n thereof_o consist_v principal_o in_o four_o point_n themselves_o as_o holy_a father_n do_v note_n first_o that_o every_o new_a sect_n divide_v itself_o quick_o into_o many_o other_o sect_n and_o heresy_n which_o s._n augustine_n show_v large_o of_o the_o arrian_n 6._o and_o donatist_n and_o staphilus_n lyndanus_n and_o other_o writer_n of_o our_o time_n do_v show_v the_o same_o of_o luther_n sect_n divide_v into_o so_o many_o sect_n &_o branch_n in_o so_o few_o year_n as_o all_o the_o world_n see_v and_o stanislaus_n rescius_fw-la a_o learned_a man_n of_o polonian_a in_o his_o late_a book_n of_o the_o atheisine_n of_o haeretik_n show_v out_o of_o the_o write_n of_o protestant_n themselves_o that_o in_o the_o year_n 1596._o when_o he_o write_v his_o book_n which_o be_v but_o 4._o year_n pass_v that_o there_o be_v now_o extant_a in_o the_o world_n 270._o different_a sect_n all_o rise_v out_o of_o luther_n from_o the_o year_n 1517._o wherein_o luther_n begin_v all_o which_o he_o declare_v at_o length_n &_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o so_o great_a multiplication_n be_v give_v by_o tertullian_n in_o his_o book_n of_o prescription_n against_o heretic_n above_o 1400._o ibid._n year_n past_a say_v that_o for_o so_o much_o as_o every_o scholar_n of_o a_o sectary_n know_v that_o his_o master_n invent_v his_o opinion_n of_o his_o own_o head_n he_o will_v invent_v also_o something_o himself_o thereby_o to_o show_v that_o his_o wit_n be_v not_o inferior_a to_o that_o of_o his_o master_n and_o hereby_o they_o come_v to_o such_o confusion_n in_o the_o end_n that_o one_o destroy_v the_o other_o whereof_o luther_n himself_o be_v a_o good_a witness_n when_o he_o write_v these_o word_n 5._o true_o god_n do_v not_o fight_v by_o any_o other_o mean_n with_o heretic_n then_o by_o permittinge_n among_o they_o a_o certain_a seditious_a spirit_n of_o dissension_n by_o which_o their_o overthrow_n also_o and_o perdition_n do_v ensue_v so_o he_o who_o be_v a_o witness_n in_o this_o cause_n without_o exception_n as_o you_o know_v the_o second_o reproach_n follow_v sectarye_n be_v contradiction_n to_o themselves_o sect_n in_o their_o own_o write_n and_o say_n and_o shameful_a inconstancy_n in_o their_o doctrine_n the_o reason_n whereof_o be_v for_o that_o the_o say_a doctrine_n consystinge_v only_o in_o the_o invention_n judgement_n and_o memory_n of_o the_o sectarye_n himself_o that_o invent_v it_o or_o choose_v to_o follow_v it_o though_o invent_v by_o another_o for_o whatsoever_o they_o allege_v of_o scripture_n or_o other_o antiquity_n must_v depend_v of_o their_o own_o new_a invent_a interpretation_n of_o necessity_n it_o must_v follow_v that_o as_o their_o talent_n and_o wit_n discourse_n or_o memory_n do_v alter_v change_n or_o fail_v in_o time_n so_o must_v the_o doctrine_n also_o thereof_o dependinge_v be_v alter_v and_o so_o either_o forget_v what_o they_o say_v in_o one_o time_n or_o place_n or_o matter_n or_o have_v alter_v their_o judgement_n or_o opinion_n upon_o some_o further_a reason_n which_o then_o they_o see_v not_o they_o must_v needs_o come_v to_o say_v contrary_a to_o that_o they_o do_v before_o in_o which_o kind_n of_o contradiction_n some_o thousand_o have_v be_v note_v by_o learned_a man_n in_o luther_n himself_o lutheri_fw-la &_o no_o marvel_n see_v he_o be_v the_o first_o of_o that_o sect_n that_o 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ancient_a father_n and_o the_o like_a and_o breakinge_v down_o beside_o the_o hedge_n and_o wall_n that_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v bulwark_n to_o good_a life_n as_o confession_n restitution_n satisfaction_n fastinge_v vowinge_v and_o other_o help_n of_o that_o quality_n this_o i_o say_v be_v once_o do_v which_o be_v the_o proper_a work_n of_o heresy_n a_o man_n run_v natural_o into_o doubt_n &_o contempt_n of_o all_o and_o consequent_o lose_v by_o little_a and_o little_a both_o fear_n and_o shame_n give_v himself_o over_o easy_o to_o all_o licentious_a liberty_n and_o sensuality_n of_o life_n which_o the_o apostle_n call_v desperation_n 1._o and_o thus_o much_o of_o the_o cause_n of_o this_o three_o reproach_n for_o as_o for_o the_o effect_n it_o self_n to_o wit_n that_o these_o fruit_n have_v follow_v in_o the_o world_n since_o heresy_n come_v in_o much_o more_o than_o ever_o before_o i_o can_v allege_v both_o luther_n himself_o december_n and_o erasmus_fw-la roterodavius_fw-la and_o other_o author_n of_o most_o credit_n with_o protestant_n testifyinge_v of_o their_o day_n and_o as_o for_o england_n it_o self_n the_o present_a knowledge_n &_o experience_n of_o thousand_o will_v bear_v i_o witness_v wherefore_o i_o mean_v to_o prosecute_v no_o further_o these_o first_o 3._o reproach_n follow_v heresy_n and_o heretic_n to_o wittâ—_n division_n among_o themselves_o contradiction_n to_o themselves_o and_o dissolution_n of_o life_n or_o propension_n to_o atheism_n though_o for_o the_o reader_n full_a instruction_n therein_o if_o he_o understand_v the_o latin_a tongue_n i_o must_v needs_o give_v he_o notice_n of_o two_o famous_a book_n write_v of_o late_a of_o that_o argument_n â—ookes_n by_o two_o excellent_a learned_a man_n of_o our_o time_n &_o take_v out_o of_o the_o work_n themselves_o of_o all_o the_o sectarye_n of_o this_o age_n the_o one_o be_v of_o our_o contreyman_n master_n william_n reynolds_n caluinoâ—turcismus_n once_o fellow_n of_o new-colledg_a in_o oxford_n &_o a_o protestant_a preacher_n entitle_v caluinoâ—_n turcismus_fw-la that_o be_v of_o
caluyns_n religion_n lead_v to_o turkism_n or_o a_o comparison_n of_o turkish_a religion_n with_o caluinisme_n the_o other_o be_v of_o the_o aforesaid_a polonian_a gentleman_n stanislaus_n rescius_fw-la ambassador_n and_o treasurer_n for_o his_o king_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o naplesâ—_n where_o his_o say_a work_n be_v print_v 4._o year_n pass_v as_o have_v be_v say_v to_o wit_n in_o the_o year_n 1596._o and_o it_o be_v divide_v into_o two_o book_n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o de_fw-fr atheismis_n &_o phalerismis_n euangelicorum_fw-la nostri_fw-la temporis_fw-la libri_fw-la duo_fw-la quorum_fw-la prio_fw-la de_fw-la fide_fw-la atheismis_n posterior_n tractat_fw-la de_fw-la operibus_fw-la eorum_fw-la which_o in_o english_a be_v thus_o two_o book_n of_o the_o atheism_n and_o phalerisme_n or_o crueltye_n of_o the_o ghospeller_n of_o our_o time_n whereof_o the_o first_o treat_v of_o their_o faith_n the_o second_o of_o their_o work_n this_o be_v the_o title_n and_o i_o do_v assure_v the_o reader_n if_o he_o peruse_v they_o with_o attention_n and_o indifferency_n he_o will_v remain_v inform_v by_o their_o read_n and_o not_o a_o little_a astonish_v to_o behold_v what_o be_v there_o allege_v out_o of_o the_o write_n of_o protestant_n themselves_o and_o other_o authentical_a witness_n in_o this_o behalf_n of_o the_o other_o work_n of_o master_n william_n reynolds_n provinge_v that_o caluyns_n religion_n be_v worse_a in_o condition_n and_o less_o probable_a in_o reason_n then_o that_o of_o the_o turk_n &_o have_v less_o ground_n &_o substance_n therein_o than_o the_o other_o for_o all_o this_o and_o much_o more_o he_o declare_v in_o this_o work_n i_o shall_v not_o need_v to_o treat_v here_o nor_o yet_o give_v notice_n of_o the_o book_n for_o that_o it_o be_v write_v &_o print_v very_o late_o in_o flanders_n &_o be_v no_o doubt_n or_o may_v be_v easy_o in_o england_n before_o this_o day_n only_o i_o will_v add_v this_o of_o the_o judgement_n of_o stranger_n to_o wit_n that_o by_o testimony_n and_o asseveration_n of_o diverse_a very_o learned_a man_n of_o other_o nation_n there_o be_v never_o write_v a_o thing_n in_o that_o kind_n and_o of_o such_o a_o argument_n more_o excellent_a in_o respect_n of_o the_o infinite_a variety_n of_o heretical_a book_n which_o he_o show_v to_o have_v read_v and_o well_o ponder_v and_o for_o the_o many_o invincible_a reason_n &_o demonstration_n which_o he_o allege_v for_o his_o purpose_n and_o so_o much_o of_o this_o and_o now_o i_o will_v speak_v somewhat_o large_a of_o the_o four_o reproach_n and_o shame_n accompanyinge_v common_o heretic_n and_o sectarye_n lyinge_v and_o especial_o the_o head_n and_o chief_a thereof_o that_o write_v book_n which_o be_v counterfaytinge_n deceytfull_a dealing_v falsifyinge_v and_o open_a lyinge_v but_o principal_o in_o alleaginge_v antiquity_n for_o their_o purpose_n whereof_o i_o have_v occasion_n by_o this_o present_a story_n of_o plessis_n mornay_n to_o say_v somewhat_o and_o the_o accusation_n of_o ancient_a father_n father_n that_o call_v heretic_n falsarij_fw-la that_o be_v falsifiar_n and_o corrupter_n of_o antiquity_n occur_v every_o where_o in_o their_o book_n so_o as_o the_o spirit_n of_o old_a heretic_n agree_v with_o this_o of_o our_o new_a in_o this_o point_n as_o well_o as_o in_o many_o other_o and_o if_o we_o will_v consider_v the_o cause_n &_o necessity_n of_o this_o reproach_n in_o like_a manner_n we_o shall_v find_v they_o no_o less_o evident_a or_o forcible_a than_o the_o former_a for_o that_o sectarye_n pretendinge_v antiquity_n in_o their_o doctrine_n for_o that_o otherwise_o it_o will_v have_v no_o credit_n &_o find_v all_o antiquity_n whole_o against_o they_o except_o only_o the_o antiquity_n of_o heretic_n and_o sectarye_n which_o they_o dare_v not_o allege_v open_o though_o they_o follow_v they_o they_o be_v force_v to_o fain_v and_o forge_v somewhat_o of_o their_o own_o as_o for_o example_n some_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n to_o be_v with_o they_o or_o else_o shall_v they_o remain_v without_o all_o show_n or_o colour_n of_o honest_a pretence_n in_o which_o point_n notwithstanding_o they_o do_v not_o agree_v among_o themselves_o beginning_n for_o that_o first_o martin_n luther_n their_o great_a father_n forseeinge_v this_o difficulty_n &_o not_o willinge_v at_o the_o begin_v to_o cast_v himself_o into_o these_o two_o troublesome_a labyrinth_n first_o of_o shiftinge_v of_o by_o divised_a interpretation_n those_o manifold_a authoritye_n of_o father_n that_o be_v to_o be_v bring_v against_o he_o and_o then_o in_o find_v out_o other_o father_n in_o his_o own_o behalf_n he_o take_v a_o more_o brief_a and_o compendious_a way_n which_o be_v to_o deny_v and_o contemn_v they_o all_o for_o so_o he_o do_v in_o very_a many_o place_n of_o his_o work_n protest_v at_o the_o very_a beginning_n almost_o of_o all_o his_o heresy_n to_o wit_n in_o the_o year_n 1521._o in_o a_o epistle_n write_v to_o a_o german_a knight_n 1521._o that_o he_o be_v tie_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o no_o father_n though_o never_o so_o holy_a if_o he_o be_v not_o approve_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o holy_a scripture_n whereof_o you_o must_v imagine_v himself_o world_n be_v judge_v and_o add_v in_o the_o same_o place_n that_o the_o father_n write_n be_v full_a of_o error_n contrary_a often_o to_o themselves_o and_o disagree_v the_o one_o from_o the_o other_o wrestinge_v scripture_n and_o the_o like_a the_o same_o also_o he_o say_v of_o counsel_n in_o the_o same_o place_n and_o in_o the_o next_o year_n after_o this_o write_v against_o k._n henry_n the_o 8._o he_o say_v 1522._o i_o do_v oppose_v against_o all_o the_o testimony_n of_o father_n of_o man_n never_o so_o holy_a of_o angel_n and_o of_o devil_n etc._n etc._n whereby_o we_o may_v see_v what_o account_n he_o make_v of_o father_n and_o counsel_n when_o they_o be_v against_o he_o and_o the_o same_o do_v zuinglius_fw-la caluyn_n and_o other_o after_o he_o for_o a_o time_n when_o 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be_v real_o contain_v under_o the_o species_n or_o accident_n of_o bread_n and_o he_o dispute_v that_o it_o be_v not_o and_o his_o argument_n be_v for_o that_o the_o quantity_n do_v not_o permit_v it_o nor_o yet_o the_o locality_n and_o circumscription_n annex_v to_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o true_a body_n such_o a_o one_o as_o christ_n have_v etc._n etc._n thus_o he_o and_o then_o for_o proof_n he_o quote_v in_o the_o margin_n scotus_n upon_o the_o 4._o book_n of_o sentence_n do_v 10._o quaest_n 1._o out_o of_o which_o place_n the_o b._n do_v infer_v two_o wilful_a and_o malicious_a deceyt_v of_o plessis_n imposture_n the_o first_o that_o he_o will_v make_v his_o reader_n believe_v that_o scotus_n &_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o schoolman_n when_o they_o propose_v any_o matter_n to_o be_v dispute_v to_o and_o fro_o do_v doubt_n of_o the_o truth_n thereof_o
these_o clause_n that_o contain_v the_o principal_a point_n of_o all_o the_o speech_n be_v wilful_a fraud_n and_o falsification_n endeavouringe_v to_o make_v saint_n hierome_n to_o speak_v against_o himself_o about_o prayinge_v to_o saint_n which_o he_o never_o mean_v here_o now_o plessis_n be_v strain_a as_o before_o run_v to_o his_o ordinary_a shift_n of_o say_v that_o s._n hierome_n speak_v not_o of_o dead_a saint_n but_o of_o live_v only_o which_o though_o it_o be_v evident_o false_a as_o the_o bishop_n show_v by_o other_o plain_a word_n of_o s._n hierome_n in_o the_o same_o place_n and_o by_o plessis_n himself_o hierome_n that_o cite_v this_o place_n as_o a_o antiâ—otum_n to_o other_o place_n of_o he_o against_o vigilantius_n where_o plessis_n himself_o confess_v that_o he_o talk_v of_o prayer_n to_o saint_n decease_v beside_o all_o this_o i_o say_v whereby_o this_o refuge_n be_v evident_o know_v to_o be_v but_o a_o shift_n the_o bishop_n press_v he_o most_o with_o this_o that_o 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this_o sentence_n to_o wit_n that_o christian_n do_v not_o give_v adoration_n nor_o reverence_n to_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n be_v not_o in_o s._n cyrill_n and_o will_v he_o to_o show_v they_o plessis_n answer_v that_o in_o deed_n they_o be_v not_o s._n cyrills_n own_o word_n and_o therefore_o he_o do_v not_o put_v they_o in_o a_o different_a letter_n of_o quotation_n but_o yet_o that_o the_o sense_n of_o they_o be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o s._n cyrill_n the_o b._n reply_v that_o neither_o the_o word_n nor_o sense_n be_v there_o and_o yet_o that_o plessis_n pag._n 89._o plessis_n of_o his_o book_n against_o the_o mass_n have_v set_v down_o the_o same_o thing_n as_o of_o s._n cyrills_n own_o word_n in_o a_o different_a letter_n of_o quotation_n thus_o cyrill_n likewise_o reproach_v by_o julian_n the_o emperor_n do_v answer_v flatt_o that_o the_o christian_n do_v neither_o adore_v nor_o honour_v the_o sign_n of_o the_o crosse._n so_o as_o heerâ—_n you_o see_v not_o only_o these_o word_n allege_v as_o s._n cyrills_n in_o a_o different_a letter_n but_o also_o often_o urge_v by_o plessis_n that_o for_o so_o much_o as_o he_o can_v not_o bring_v forth_o the_o word_n at_o least_o he_o shall_v show_v the_o sense_n thereof_o in_o s._n cyrill_n plessis_n answer_v that_o the_o sense_n may_v be_v gather_v out_o of_o cyrill_n himself_o in_o that_o julian_n the_o apostata_fw-la against_o who_o he_o write_v obiectinge_v unto_o he_o that_o the_o christian_n adore_v the_o cross_n of_o christ_n cyrill_n do_v not_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v true_a which_o of_o likelihood_n he_o will_v have_v do_v if_o in_o those_o day_n christian_n in_o deed_n have_v worship_v the_o crosse._n but_o to_o this_o the_o bishop_n reply_v that_o the_o consequence_n be_v not_o good_a for_o so_o much_o as_o christian_a writer_n of_o that_o time_n be_v wont_a to_o go_v very_o reserued_o in_o utter_v the_o point_n &_o misterye_n of_o our_o faith_n unto_o pagan_n though_o here_o in_o effect_n cyrill_n do_v confess_v it_o as_o present_o shall_v be_v show_v for_o that_o he_o yield_v the_o reason_n why_o they_o do_v it_o but_o on_o the_o other_o side_n it_o be_v a_o far_o better_a argument_n to_o say_v julian_n the_o apostata_fw-la object_v that_o christian_n adore_v the_o cross_n of_o christ_n and_o paint_v the_o image_n thereof_o upon_o their_o forehead_n &_o upon_o their_o door_n and_o s._n cyrill_n deny_v it_o not_o but_o endeavour_v to_o give_v a_o reason_n why_o they_o do_v so_o ergo_fw-la it_o be_v more_o probable_a that_o christian_n do_v worship_v the_o cross_n of_o christ_n indeed_o in_o those_o day_n and_o here_o the_o king_n take_v up_o the_o argument_n again_o say_v plessis_n that_o it_o be_v very_o probable_a that_o julian_n will_v never_o have_v object_v this_o to_o the_o christian_n if_o they_o have_v not_o do_v so_o indeed_o for_o otherwise_o he_o shall_v have_v be_v laugh_v at_o by_o all_o which_o speech_n of_o his_o majesty_n the_o b._n confirm_v by_o show_v how_o 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that_o will_v seem_v to_o touch_v plessis_n fidelity_n in_o the_o place_n allege_v as_o he_o may_v seem_v to_o need_v rather_o byndinge_v then_o answer_v yet_o somewhat_o shall_v we_o say_v to_o he_o as_o the_o straitness_n of_o this_o place_n and_o time_n will_v permit_v and_o thereby_o show_v sufficient_o what_o manner_n of_o adversary_n he_o be_v and_o that_o have_v lose_v or_o lay_v aside_o as_o it_o seem_v all_o manner_n of_o respect_n to_o shamefastness_n and_o modesty_n he_o may_v easy_o lend_v out_o his_o tongue_n &_o pen_n for_o small_a hire_n to_o any_o man_n and_o true_o i_o can_v not_o but_o marvel_n that_o a_o man_n of_o his_o profession_n &_o place_n can_v persuade_v himself_o that_o so_o excessive_a a_o raylinge_v and_o opprobrious_a stile_n against_o all_o who_o he_o answer_v shall_v gain_v he_o credit_v with_o any_o modest_a or_o sober_a sort_n of_o man_n he_o will_v find_v some_o in_o the_o end_n that_o will_v return_v he_o legem_fw-la talionis_fw-la &_o then_o he_o may_v count_v his_o gain_n i_o for_o my_o part_n be_o resolve_v not_o to_o be_v draw_v by_o he_o to_o that_o vein_n but_o to_o urge_v he_o only_o with_o substantial_a point_n of_o the_o controversy_n in_o hand_n as_o the_o reader_n shall_v see_v by_o that_o which_o ensue_v wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o the_o matter_n whereas_o monsieur_n plessis_n divide_v his_o refuge_n into_o three_o point_n as_o before_o you_o have_v hear_v the_o first_o concern_v the_o history_n of_o the_o conference_n itself_o defence_n the_o second_o in_o seek_v out_o new_a evasion_n the_o three_o in_o recrimination_n o._n e._n set_v before_o we_o the_o same_o colewort_n sod_v again_o but_o guise_v after_o another_o fashion_n puttinge_v recrimination_n in_o the_o first_o place_n of_o all_o but_o much_o more_o vain_o than_o plessis_n do_v in_o the_o three_o and_o in_o the_o second_o he_o take_v upon_o he_o to_o defend_v the_o truth_n and_o fidelity_n of_o plessis_n in_o all_o the_o place_n before_o examine_v and_o for_o that_o in_o this_o point_n consist_v in_o deed_n the_o only_a substance_n of_o the_o controversy_n i_o shall_v only_o examine_v the_o same_o in_o this_o place_n leave_v the_o other_o to_o a_o more_o full_a and_o large_a answer_n when_o we_o shall_v have_v view_v a_o second_o edition_n which_o o._n e._n be_v say_v to_o have_v make_v of_o his_o new_a challenge_n in_o five_o several_a controversy_n to_o n._n d._n now_o to_o the_o place_n as_o they_o lie_v in_o order_n with_o this_o only_a advertisement_n premise_v that_o it_o shall_v be_v good_a for_o the_o reader_n first_o to_o look_v over_o the_o examen_fw-la of_o each_o place_n handle_v before_o in_o the_o second_o chapter_n of_o this_o defence_n where_o all_o the_o 9_o place_n be_v examine_v several_o and_o i_o do_v mean_a to_o remit_v i_o often_o for_o more_o brevitye_n sake_n thereunto_o the_o first_o place_n out_o of_o scotus_n you_o have_v hear_v 2._o before_o how_o monsieur_n plessis_n be_v argue_v by_o the_o bishop_n of_o 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humâ—_n have_v be_v leave_v out_o see_v both_o epiphanius_n and_o the_o council_n of_o eliberis_n in_o spain_n &_o diverse_a other_o father_n have_v condemn_v image_n before_o but_o why_o have_v not_o o._n e._n cite_v the_o place_n out_o of_o epiphanius_n &_o those_o other_o father_n which_o condemn_v paintinge_v of_o image_n that_o we_o may_v have_v read_v they_o 170._o the_o b._n of_o eureux_fw-fr do_v cyte_a both_o in_o the_o conference_n itself_o and_o in_o his_o refutation_n of_o plessis_n discourse_n many_o ancient_a father_n express_v word_n both_o before_o and_o after_o this_o law_n be_v make_v of_o theodosius_n and_o valenâ—inian_n name_v here_o again_o ignorant_o by_o o._n e._n as_o the_o law_n of_o theodosius_n and_o valens_n to_o wit_n the_o authoritye_n of_o eusebius_n chrysostome_n hierome_n cyrill_n prudentius_n paulinus_n s._n gregory_n nissen_n s._n gregory_n nazianzen_n and_o other_o all_o allowinge_v the_o pious_a use_n of_o image_n in_o their_o day_n yea_o and_o a_o 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image_n the_o eight_o place_n out_o of_o s._n bernard_n first_o it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v that_o this_o 8._o passage_n be_v by_o error_n of_o the_o aforesaid_a french_a write_v copy_n send_v from_o paris_n place_v in_o the_o 9_o room_n by_o he_o that_o set_v forth_o the_o say_a passage_n be_v restore_v here_o by_o we_o again_o unto_o his_o proper_a place_n accord_v to_o the_o act_n of_o the_o conference_n and_o plessis_n reply_n which_o o._n e._n also_o follow_v without_o mencioninge_v the_o error_n which_o be_v a_o argument_n that_o he_o have_v read_v all_o and_o so_o much_o great_a be_v his_o shame_n that_o he_o come_v so_o bare_a &_o weak_a to_o play_v the_o advocate_n after_o much_o better_a matter_n utter_v before_o by_o plessis_n himself_o who_o be_v accuse_v upon_o this_o place_n as_o before_o you_o have_v see_v for_o tyinge_v together_o fraudulent_o two_o different_a place_n of_o s._n bernard_n as_o make_v against_o the_o honour_n of_o our_o bless_a lady_n and_o persidious_o 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lawful_a to_o falsify_v and_o corrupt_v his_o word_n and_o sense_n we_o know_v well_o that_o both_o you_o and_o he_o do_v allege_v the_o word_n of_o s._n bernard_n and_o other_o catholic_a writer_n as_o the_o devil_n do_v scripture_n which_o bind_v not_o he_o but_o other_o against_o who_o he_o allege_v they_o author_n and_o so_o plessis_n allege_v scotus_n and_o durandus_fw-la before_o but_o as_o the_o proverb_n be_v a_o man_n shall_v not_o bely_v the_o devil_n and_o no_o less_o falsehood_n and_o corruption_n of_o mind_n be_v discover_v in_o falsifyinge_v author_n who_o they_o credit_n not_o as_o other_o who_o they_o credit_v wherefore_o let_v we_o hear_v his_o conclusion_n upon_o this_o place_n he_o say_v that_o s._n bernard_n and_o we_o do_v not_o agree_v about_o honour_n to_o be_v give_v to_o our_o lady_n as_o in_o the_o feast_n of_o her_o conception_n in_o call_n her_o mediatricem_fw-la salutis_fw-la and_o that_o both_o he_o and_o epiphanius_n write_v against_o the_o heretic_n call_v collyridian_n do_v much_o mislike_v the_o honour_n which_o we_o give_v to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n all_o which_o be_v toy_n &_o answer_v before_o in_o the_o examen_fw-la of_o this_o place_n for_o so_o much_o as_o concern_v s._n bernard_n agreement_n and_o we_o but_o for_o the_o foolish_a woman_n call_v collyridian_n condemn_v by_o epiphanius_n and_o by_o the_o whole_a church_n for_o offer_v sacrifice_n to_o our_o lady_n this_o caviller_n have_v be_v answer_v 22._o so_o often_o to_o wit_n that_o it_o appertain_v nothing_o to_o our_o controversy_n and_o this_o in_o diverse_a book_n now_o out_o against_o he_o as_o only_o lack_v of_o judgement_n &_o matter_n as_o it_o seem_v have_v induce_v he_o to_o object_v it_o here_o again_o he_o have_v be_v foil_v therein_o and_o make_v to_o see_v that_o epiphanius_n express_o in_o that_o place_n honour_v highe_o our_o el._n lady_n and_o deny_v only_o divine_a honour_n unto_o she_o and_o not_o that_o which_o the_o catholic_a church_n do_v give_v unto_o she_o the_o 9_o and_o last_o place_n out_o of_o theodorete_n the_o charge_n of_o falsify_v lay_v to_o plessis_n upon_o this_o passage_n of_o theodorete_n 90._o be_v that_o he_o cite_v a_o place_n of_o this_o author_n in_o his_o commentary_n upon_o the_o psalm_n 113._o against_o pagan_a idol_n plessis_n do_v fraudulent_o so_o allege_v the_o same_o as_o if_o he_o have_v speak_v it_o of_o christian_a image_n for_o which_o purpose_n he_o use_v two_o sleight_n the_o first_o in_o translate_n the_o greek_a word_n idol_n by_o the_o latyn_n word_n image_n the_o second_o by_o cut_v of_o these_o word_n idol_n adore_v by_o pagan_n and_o adore_v for_o god_n for_o excuse_n of_o which_o two_o faâ—sifications_n when_o plessis_n have_v use_v diverse_a shift_n as_o well_o by_o some_o show_n of_o proof_n that_o idol_n and_o image_n may_v