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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A66530	The lying spirit and false aspertions turned home again, or, An answer to two reviling letters about the peoples right to tythes sent to the people call'd Quakers in the Vail of Bellvier by Clement Nedham, a Presbyterian, who writes himself, a farmer in the county of Leicester : wherein I have shew'd according to scriptures, what spirit it was that brought up tythes among the Christians, so call'd : and that those that brought them up since Christ put an end to them were not in their right senses, but were made drunk by drinking of that spirit of error that made them do they knew not what, and consequently their examples not to be followed : with an addition, shewing, that the impropriator hath less right to tythes then the poor or priest, if less can be : with a few words in love to all those that send their sons to those places called universities, with an intent to make them ministers : also a copy of a letter sent to G.N. in manuscript, wherein his unhansom and unchristian-like dealings may be seen : with a short postcript to the reader / by J.W. ...	Willsford, John.	1673 (1673)	Wing W2872; ESTC R40124	16,433	28

Servants of the Lord. The Quakers have not forgot how you carried away as your own the Crime that is laid to them their Pots and Pans Hay and Corn and put the Servants of the Lord in Prison when they could not feed your Lying Prophets or when they spoak to them in the Steeple-houses But the Lord brought you down and the Quakers and Tremblers at the Word of the Lord whom ye derided stand as Witnesses against you So C. N. thou and thy Party may take this to your selves to the Shame and Infamy of your whole Profession For Persecution is a Shame and Infamy to any Profession whatever And have not you Presbyterians hid your selves as in an Inner Chamber when a Storm hath come But when the Sun hath shined and the Storm been over like Snakes ye have come out of your Holes witness John Woodhouse's Meeting and thine C. N. at Wortenby and at Salxelby in Leicester-shire near unto us we have seen your Devised Service often blasted according to C. N.'s Belief Again In try 13th page thou sayest And now my Friends if you are convinced that Tythes are none of yours consider think it not sufficient to expiate your Guilt by saying in your usual Language Let them that are free to pay Tythes pay them Answ It seems thou thinkest thou hast done something as thy words and now my Friends imply But I must tell thee We are convinced that we have as good right to the Tenth Part as we have to the other Nine and that for these Reasons First Because Christ fulfilled and put an End to that Law that gave Tythes as before I have proved Secondly Those that brought them up again were made Drunk by drinking of the Whore's Golden Cup which was full of Abominations within and consequently their Examples are not to be followed Thirdly We believe That every part and parcel of our Lands is our own so far as our Deeds and Leafes make mention and the Increase is God's lent to us And we are commanded Not to spend our Money for that which is not Bread and our Labour for that which satisfieth not Isaiah Chap. 55. And I must tell thee We are not satisfied with the Priests neither do we believe that they can give us the Bread of Life and therefore we cannot pay them Again Thou biddest us Turn to the Light or Law in our Consciences and then tell thee whether the following Conclusions must not necessarily fall to the Shame and Infamy of our whole Profession Answ Before thou callst it a Pretended Light and now dost thou directest us unto it but it matters not what thou callest it we know it to be true Light and have turned to it and we find that thy Conclusions do not fall upon us but we see that thou art like the Persecuting Jews who numbred Christ among Thieves and would rather have a Murderer or a Malefactor to live then he And what was the Cause of the Jews Envy against Christ Was it not because they thought in their Dark Imaginations he did something contrary to their Law It is like if one should have asked them Who made their Law they in their Dark Hellish Natures would have said God gave it to Moses and Moses said in the four and twentieth Chapter of Leviticus and the sixteenth Verse He that Blasphemeth the Name of the Lord shall surely be put to Death And was not this the Crime they laid to him But God forbid that I or any true Christian should believe that these words concerned him so as to ensnare him although they in their Dark Minds might so understand them And C. N. What is the Cause that thou countest us more Criminal then common Notorious Thieves Is it not because thou in thy Dark Imaginations thinkest that we do something contrary to Law But if one should ask thee Who made thy Law thou condemnest us by Sayest thou Such and such Popish Kings made Laws for the Payment of Tythes and you Quakers Refuse to pay them and therefore if Ignorance will not nothing else can excuse you before God or Man from being more Criminal then Common Notorious Thieves And here art not thou worse then the Jews who pleaded a Law that was before the Papists though they understood it wrong Thou sayest Might not Popish Kings do what they would with their own I answer Yes But the Increase of our Labour and Flocks and Fields that God blesseth unto us this year was not theirs to give that dyed Hundreds of Years past And did not Persecutors plead Law in all Ages against the Innocent and for their Mass and other things and thought they went right when they had Law on their sides Search Scriptures and Chronicles and see if it were not so And do not the Persecutors plead Law now for the taking away of Goods and that from some of you called Presbyterians And may not some in Ages to come upon the same Ground that thou pleadest for Tythes plead it Right according to Law to take away Goods if any meet together to Worship God if he prevent it not Oh! that men should be so blind to plead against themselves But thy Pleading signifies a Daubing In the 14th page of thy Book thou sayest Our usual Demand what Scripture can be produced to prove any Examples for Paymen of Tythes to Gospel Ministers Answ Thou seemest to sleight us for so doing and what a Stir have the Presbyterians made about calling the Scriptures the Word and Rule and now if one speak according to them he is counted as one that seems to have neither Common Sense nor Reason or at best a Confident Weak Defendent witness thy Reviling Postscript concerning my first Letter thou sayest VVe ignorantly deny Scriptures to be the Rule to try and distinguish betwixt True and False Spirits But whither art thou gone Thy Nakedness of Pretence to Truth is exposed to censure through thy own Ignorant Folly What are all the Pleaders for Tythes driven out of the Scriptures And are they forced to flee to the Humane Law Presbyterians What is the Bible become of no use now Must not the Pope's Authority be questioned It is enough to believe as your Mother Church believes Whither are you running Come back again come back again for shame else the Lord will follow you and ye shall not have a Hiding-place it is the Word of the Lord in my Heart to you all that you may be warned C. N. demands of us VVhether Scripture Example be not equal binding to people as well as Ministers Answ That Example of selling all and laying down at Ministers Feet is not binding Acts 5.3 4. Peter said to Ananias VVhy hath Satan filled thine Heart with a Lye to the Holy Ghost whilst it remained was it not thine own and after it was sold was it not in thine own Power So see this Example was not binding the Sin lay in Lying against God in pretending to give All and yet kept a Part back

of an endless Life who put an End to Tythes and Offerings and offered himself once for all And further John exhorted the Church to that they had in the Beginning even to the Anointing within to preserve them out of the Snares of Antichrist because he saw him working in a Mystery before whose time I do not find that Tythes came up in this last Age. Oh! How lovingly did John write unto them saying Little Children abide in him Further see what John said in the Revelations Chap. 13. he said He saw a Beast coming up out of the Earth and he had two Horns like a Lamb and he spake as a Dragon and he exerciseth all the Power of the first Beast And what was the first Beast was it not that Spirit that was got up among the Heathen Emperors when they persecuted the Christians And afterwards when the second Beast arose which had two Horns like a Lamb did not the Christians persecute one another and the Pope get over the Kings and Emperors And this Beast wrought Miracles Here the Papists may see from whence their Miracles came And this Beast that came up like a Lamb mark mildly by Perswasion yet at last causeth all both Small and Great Rich and Poor Free and Bond to receive a Mark in their Right-hand or in their Foreheads and that no Man might Buy or Sell save he that had the Mark or the Name of the Beast And now C. N. see what Laws thou Presbyterian so strongly pleadest for Is it not so in most places now that a Man can hardly buy sell or Trade with any thing but the Priest will look for a Tenth Part if not for a Seventh of many things which need not be named seeing the poor Country People that labour hard for what they have know so well how Coverous the Priest is that if he hears the Sow has pigged away goes he or sends to see what is for him or when the Ewe has lambed but he will make them keep them till they be fit for his Mouth likewise when the Sheep are sheared Corn and Apples ready And dost not thou plead right by the Beasts Law But what Example is there in Scripture for these things This is more then the Tenths of Lands But thou sayest It is known to every Buyer and Seller and thou seemest as if thou wouldst have none buy or Sell where the Beast hath power but those that can pay these things But is it not a Mark that those that pay and plead for them are Upholders of Antichrist's Kingdom The Waters where the Whore sitteth are Peoples Multitudes Nations and Tongues John numbred the dayes of the Beast Vers 18. contrary to thy pleading for thou pleadest as if his Raign might never have an End But John spake further of the Downfall of the Beast and said If any Man worshippen him or his Image or received his Mark they should drink of the Wine of the VVrath of God Rev. 14. He said further in Rev. 17. There came one of the Seven Angels which had the Seven Vials and talked with me saying unto me Come hither I will shew thee the Judgment of the Great VVhore that sitteth upon many VVaters with whom the Kings of the Earth has committed Fornication and the Inhabitants of the Earth have been made Drunk with the Wine of her Fornication And how are Men when they are drank Are they not beside their Right Senses and stagger and reel up and down as they did at that day when Tythes came last up And dost thou think that those Kings or others knew well what they did when they gave Tythes for the Pardoning of their Sins or for the Health of their Souls or for their Fathers Souls and gone from Christ the Saviour of their Souls Or whether were they not drunk by drinking of the Whore's Golden Cup and beside their Right Senses or at best perswaded that they should merit Heaven by their own Good VVorks And did not this make the Pope and his Strain so High and Rich And whether that which a Man doth when he is drunk or not in his Right Senses or doth not well know what he doth must needs stand firm without Alteration Can a Will stand good by Law when a Man is not in his Right Senses at the time he makes it And that this was their Cases I think few but Papists will deny But some may Object and say VVere not many Good and VVholsome Laws in this Nation made by the Papists and yet thou sayest they were in the dark and their Examples not to be followed To which I answer I never denyed but that there might be some good amongst them especially in Temporal Things We see many a Wild Drunken Man that hath a large Understanding in Temporal Affairs yet knows little of the Things of God And it seems to me that although Tythes themselves were not nor are not Spiritual yet they did rather relate to the Church or Spiritual Things and therefore the Tryal of them was referred to the Spiritual or Ecclesiastical Courts until O. C. put them down and to gratifie the Priests made a New Law for the Recovering of Tythes And further For the removing of all Scruple I do affirm that we do own all the Good and Wholsome Laws in the Nations that are for the Praise of them that do well and for the Punishment of Evil-Doers But we believe that no man ought to have made Laws for the Enforcing of Payment of Tythes because Christ the Pure Law-Giver put an End to them but he did not end the Titles men had in their Lands Hence I conclude that the Titles men have or Law by which men hold their Lands is different from the Titles or Law by which the Priests or Impropriators hold their Tythes by the one grounded upon Right Reason more ancient then the Papists the other a By-Law made in the Midnight of Darkness when men knew not well what they did which indeed may be called A Vsurping over men's Consciences and Estates For it s most certain men had Titles in their Lands before the Papists made Laws for Payment of Tythes Thou sayest in pag. 11. of thy Book The Author hath not yet proved why Laws may not be admitted for Maintenance of Ministers as well as Poor To which thing I have something in my Heart to say concerning my Faith or what I believe concerning that Matter I believe that all Poor ought to labour so much as they are able to maintain themselves and not to spend any of God's Creatures in waste and what they are not able to do by their own true Labour is to be made out by them that have it and this the Power of God compels them that are in it to do if there were no outward Law to compel to it And I believe the like by Ministers That they also ought to follow Paul's Example that is To Labour with their Hands that they might not be

Neither do we find that this was practised any more He further demands VVhat Scripture Example we can shew that any man bought Lands chargeable with Tythes and Refused to pay them Answ It is not hard to guess from what spirit this Demand ariseth but in the Eternal Light it s seen to our Eyes to arise from that spirit that sleights us for sticking so close to the Scriptures I might ask him What Scripture Example he can shew that any man sold Land chargeable with Tythes under a Gospel-Dispensation Again seeing thou pleadest so much for Papists Laws whether dost thou own all to be Right that was brought up by the Papists yea or nay If nay then how or by what must we distinguish betwixt Right and Wrong Good and Evil seeing there is Danger of calling Good Evil and Evil Good and of putting Light for Darkness and Darkness for Light Answer this Question else stop thy Mouth forever There are some frivolous Demands in thy Book but being sufficiently answered by my Friend T. R. I shall pass them by desiring thee to take notice of the latter-end of thy last Letter thou sayest But if the Truth be not on my side in what I have formerly offered or may be offered by those of greater Vnderstanding then none of those Conclusions are applicable against you but must confessedly be returned upon me and those whose Cause I plead Answ The Truth is not on thy side for Christ is the Truth and I do not know that thou hast named either Christ or Scriptures in all thy first Letter only at last thou sayest Farewell in the Name of the Lord. Answ The name of the Lord is a Strong Tower the Righteous flee unto it and are safe but thou hast not fled unto it for Safety and Strength to mannage thy Design but on the contrary hast fled to Popish Authors and set up their Laws above Christ and Scripture and so hast manifested thy self to be more of Antichrist then of Christ So let thee and those whose Cause thou pleadest take thy Conclusions home unto your selves and according to thy words confess them your Dues for we are clear as before is proved Addition THere is a Sense upon my Spirit concerning some who have their Understandings so far opened as to see that Ministers of the Gospel ought not to receive Tythes but they cannot tell what to say to the Impropriators because they are become as Free Estates or Iay Possessions to them Answ Why truly Friends if I were free to pay Tythes I could rather pay them to the Priest or Poor then to the Impropriators my Reasons are Because they are wholely diverted from the use that ever they were given for For Mark When they were given in the Time of the Law they were given for the Poor Fatherlerless Widdow and Priest that there might not be a Beggar in Israel but being Ended in Christ there was Collection among the Saints for the Relief of such as stood in need And I believe they had never come up again had not that Midnight of Apostacy come up yet when they did come up again they were given for the Poor and Priest and for the Use of the Church so called so that I believe although the Gives of them were Blind and Dark in that Matter and their Example not to be followed yet it never was their Intent That they should be Bought and Sold or become as Lay Possessions Hence I conclude That no man hath Right to Receive TYTHES from Another but when they were Ended by Christ they became the Proper Right of the Donors as was the Rest of their Increase Postscript I Have a few words to say in Love to all those that send their Sons to those places called Universities with an Intent to make them Ministers First Whether they think they buy the Gift of God or nay If yea then are not they in the Gall of Bitterness that think that the Gift of God can be bought for Money Acts 8. Secondly If it be not the Gift of God then what is it Thirdly Whether they that Sell the Gift of God for Money are not as bad as Simon Magus the Sorcerer who thought it might be bought for Money And further Be it known unto you all The Lord will not have Ministers of your Choice but he will have Ministers of his own chusing and he will set up his School on the Top of all your Schools and Colledges namely the Teachings of his own Spirit in the Hearts of his People for he is as Able as ever he was to chuse poor Trades-men and to fill them with his Spirit Power and Wisdom and to send them forth to preach the Everlasting Gospel as ever he was though some may say Is it not the Carpentor's Son whose Father and Mother we know I might produce many Scriptures to prove that God and Christ often times chose such as were Unlearned and little esteemed in the Eyes of the World see the first of the Corinthians verse one and Acts four verse thirteen that no Flesh might glory in his Presence And now is the Lord fulfilling his Promises who said In the last days I will pour out of my Spirit upon all Flesh upon my Hand-Maids I will pour out in those dayes of my Spirit and they shall Prophesie I will put my Law in their inward Parts and write it in their Hearts Jeremiah 32. Joel 2. Act Therefore all ye that sleight the Lord's Work at this day which he is doing in and among his People betware lest that come upon you which is spoken in the Prophets Behold ye Despisers and wonder and perish I work a Work in your day a Work which ye shall in no wise believe though a Man declare it unto you A Copy of a Letter sent to CLEMENT NEDHAM Whereunto is added a short Postscript C. Nedham I Find Drawings in the Bowels of Love to write unto thee and desire thee that thou wouldst imploy thy Wisdom Strength ad Pretious Time in and for the Use and service of thy Creator and against Oppression that the poor People groan under even as the Children of Israel did under Pharoah's Task-Masters and not to spend it in and for the Use and Service of the Proud Priests and Impropriators Beast Whore and False Prophet except thou are able to prove They are of God and their Wages Right according to his Law lest thou provest a Servant to the Devil for he is the Root from whence all Evil springs and thou canst not serve two Masters But if thou wilt persist in Opposing the Truth and the Requirings of God's Spirit in the Hearts of his People be it known unto thee That New Jerusalem which is coming down from God out of Heaven prepared as a Bride adorned for her Husband which thou writest against and spendest thy pretious Time to oppose and callest her Light a Pretended Light will prove a Burdensom stone too heavy for thee to Overturn And

now it is in my Heart to put thee in mind of thy Unhansome and Unchristian-like Dealings towards us First The Time thou didst send thy Letter to us was when Friends of Clauson where thou didst direct thy Letter were under Sufferings and grievous Threatnings by John Reay Propriator of the same Town whose Envy was and is beyond the Bounds of Christianity And here thou seemest to add Affliction to the Afflicted and to strengthen the Hands of Evil-Doers Again After thou hadst sent thy first Letter I sent one in Love to thee for that End that thy Understanding might be opened to see the Rice and Ground of Tythes and what Spirit brought them up hoping a Word to the Wise might have been sufficient But instead of accepting my Love thou vilifiedst me with Reviling Words as one that seemed to have neither common Sense nor Reason and saidst Thou wast unwilling that the Nakedness of our Pretence to Truth should be exposed to Censures through the Ignorance Folly and Confidence of soweak a Defendent And here thou didst manifest thy Pride as if thou thought scorn to meddle with me much like Goliah the Philistine who defyed Israel and disdained David and then brought forth another Monster more Odious then the first and we being silent a while thou didst put them all in Print and for no other End as I can see but to render us Odious to the whole Nation and to open a Gap for further Persecution For consider After thy many Arguments and pleading Popish Laws thou drawest thy Conclusions That if Ignorance will not nothing else can excuse us before God or Man from being more Criminal then Common Notorious Thieves Further Thou sayest Malefactors do or may suffer Death by Law for stealing things of small account but your Robbery sayest thou is of great Value and consequently the Laws are very favourable towards you A sad Consequence Were ever such Conclusions drawn against an Innocent People Truly when I read them I could not but say There was a Snare laid for our Lives and it brought to my Remembrance the Cruelty of New-England's Persecutors But how Just thy Charge is I hope is or will in due time be made manifest From thy True Friend John Wilsford Who could be glad to see a persecuting Saul become a Preaching Paul I have something further to say in answer to thy Book which if I do hear thou art not satisfied in due time it may come forth seeing thou hast made my Name publick to the Nation Broughton the 3d of the 8th Moneth 1673. J. W. These words above written were delivered into the hands of C. N. the 5th Day of the 8th Moneth A Postscript READER FOr thy better Satisfaction or lest thou shouldst think I have not done fairly in mentioning some things that are done and past do but consider C. N's Wicked Charge and Unhansome Dealings towards me and the rest of my Friends weight them in the Ballance of Equity and then see if I could do any less then I have done or whether I have done any more then to lay the Load on the Right Horse Further consider That notwithstanding Christ Jesus so loved the World as that he laid down his Life for it yet when the Jews rose up in Envy against him he told them how they killed the Prophets and stoned them that were sent unto them as may be seen at large Mat. 23. And likewise when the Jews rose up in Envy against Peter he told them how they crucified and slew the Lord of Life as thou mayst see at large in the Acts Chap. 2 3 4. And John said Rev. 18.6 7. Reward her even as she rewarded you double unto her double according to her Works Some may say Art thou pleading for a Carnal Weapon I answer Nay the Saints Weapons are not Carnal but Spiritual the Lamb's Sword proceedeth out of his Mouth if any man have an Ear to hear let him hear here is the Wisdom and Patience of Saints He that killeth with the Sword must with the Sword be killed And so I leave desiring every one to mind the Light of Christ Jesus which gives a true Understanding of the Mysteries of his Kingdom J. W. THE END