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A39313 Hereticks, sectaries, and schismaticks, discovered to be the Antichrist yet remaining and the great enemies of the peace of this kingdome the question rightly stated and debated ... : with a hint about ordination and the covenant. Ellyson, John. 1647 (1647) Wing E631; ESTC R23279 25,773 37

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gift of discerning and so this power among them yet can it not be lawfull for them to proceed against men who hold Heresies nor indeed can they be properly so called unlesse they have acknowledged and profest the contrary thereunto before and so have departed from that truth which in their Communion they maintained which appears from this next verse to that we have in hand Tit 3. 11. where the Apostle saith that a Heretick is self condemned {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} i. e. that light which he had formerly received doth now judge him condemn him as it was in Iulian the Apostat who was forced to confesse at last vicisti Galilee I conceive men who never made any more profession of Christian Religion then what they have been passive in from their forced Baptisme and education having at no time attained to any thing which hath been so much as like a New birth or change in them and so were never reckoned or esteemed by Saints among the number of Saints or admitted into their fellowship or communion such men what Tenets or Errours soever they take up are rather to be accounted prophane persons or Atheists then Hereticks As it were improper to call either a Jew or Turk a Heretick in Scripture-sense though they deny Christ to be the Son of God which I confirm from that place of 2 Pet. 2. 1. where the Apostle mentioning false Teachers which should being in damnable Heresies he saith they were such as did deny the Lord that bought them i. e. though their Consciences had received such Convictions from the spirit that Iesus Christ was the Lord and Saviour of the world and so had given themselves up to him as such yet they afterward brought in those Doctrines which denied this again Object The next place Objected is Rom. 13. 4. where the Magistrate is said to be a Minister of God for wrath upon him that doth evil Now if you adde to this Gal. 5. 10. it appears that Heresie is an evil work being there reckoned among the deeds of the flesh and so punishable by the civill power Answ These places thus united I suppose do enforce the Objection and make it stronger then I have yet anywhere met with it But I answer there are in the same Gal. 5. 20 21. severall other works of the flesh numbred up together with Heresies which yet I conceive the Civill power cannot possibly take cognifance of as hatred emulations envyings and the Civill Magistrate can no more draw his sword against the One then against the Other no more against Heresie then against hatred emulation and envy Secondly for that place of the Romanes it was a Scripture written to the Christians living under heathen Magistrates th●se surely had no cognizance of the severall controversies or opinions which might fall in amongst the Christians in the profession of their Religion which the Heathens so much hated and therefore Heresie cannot fall under the power of the sword there mentioned and if so let all men judge how truly and properly these men apply the word and whether this be not a wringing of the Scripture like a nose of wax and a perverting of it to their own and other mens destruction I should have spoken more fully to this point but that I finde my self prevented by Mr. Iohn Goodwin in his late book called Hag●●mastix from pag. 58. to pa● 66. A piece worthy the sight of such men who enquire after Truth One great question yet remains to which I shall speak a word or two and so end Q. If Heresie Schism be of such a doubtfull nature and so hard to be found out if Hereticks and Schismaticks prove to be such whom we least suspected if that gift of discerning whereby they should be known be lost in the Apostacy of the Churches if the imposing our own fallible thoughts and expositions upon the consciences of other men be Antichristianisme and a setting up of the man of fin what shall be done in regard of our Solemn League and Covenant whereby we are engaged to endeavour the extirpation of H●r●sta and Schisme and to bring the Churches in the three kingdoms to a Vniformity c. Answ. I say concerning the Covenant in reference to the Presbyterians as they sometimes spake of the Church in reference to the Prelates they dazle the eyes and astonish the senses of poor people with the glorious name of the Covenant This is the Gorgans head that hath enchanted them and held them in bondage to their Presbyterian Errours All their speech is of the Covenant the Covenant neglecting in the mean time God and the Scriptures It matters not for other things in the Covenant as you may see in the next answer so as men will but walk according to the same in their interpretation in an outward uniformity of Religion and in a visible form of Church Government and worship then which nothing can be more against the power of godlinesse which consists in an invisible and internall breathing panting working and acting of the soul toward God for God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth All outward Forms imposed do but ordinarily and commonly breed Atheisme and hypocrisie It were well therefore that the Civill powers would be carefull how they engage carnall men in Religious Covenants and about spirituall things I answer we seem very zealous for extirpation of that which is neither in our cognizance nor power and for prophanesse and such things as are against the power of godlines which in the same clause we covenant against and against which the laws of God and men are in force and which are certainly and undoubtedly in the cognizance of the civill power and for which he must give an account to God how doth every one cry out upon the neglect of these whose eyes and ears are not full of the Reelings Railings Belchings Vomitings Swearings Cursings Lyings Stealings Brawlings and Fightings of Drunkards Liars Adulterers Whoors Prophane Gracelesse Godlesse persons and yet these are altogether or in a great measure unpunished due execution of Laws against these were a right Reformation indeed acceptable to God and all good men Sin open grosse palpable sin doth so abound every where that no just man can walk up and down without vexing his righteous soul for the unclean conversation of the wicked Remember who those men are reproved by our Saviour Matth. 23. 24 that thus strain at a gnat and swallow a camel I answer That we are in our severall places and callings to endeavour against these in like manner Art 2. now God calls us out against these men in case we could discern them infallibly not with a sword of steel but the sword of the spirit the word of God which is mighty through God to convince gain-sayers and the servant of the Lord must strive no otherwise then thus as I shewed before If men will but truly and
the whole discourse and being kept in memory will in some measure enable thee if thou have any knowledge of the things of Christ to judge of truth and Errour in reference to the severall partyes it makes mention of A Church or an Assembly may be said to be true or false in respect 1. Of their Foundation 2. Of their Members 4. Of their Ministry 4 of their Doctrine 5. of their Institutions or Ordinances 6. of their placing and exercise of power Such Assemblies or Churches who have not God in Christ for the foundation or obiect of their worship can in no sence be called true or Christian Churches as the Turkes who worship Mahomet c. And such as doe lay this foundation may in some sence be called true or Christian Churches But then as they depart from the truth of Scripture either in their members ministry doctrines institutions or Ordinances right placing or exercise of power or Administration of Discipline if you please so to cal it in any some or all of those so may they be said to be more or lesse false or Antichristian which is a building wood hay and stubble upon the foundation as by the book of the Revelation it appeares Antichrist hath done in all Ages all which must be destroyed with fire I shall make no farther applycation consider what is said and the Lord give thee understanding in all things THE wisest of meer men hath said it That there is no new thing under the Sun but that which hath been is at this day and what is now shall be afterwards if God prevent not under base and odious names Persecution hath in all Ages been the Saints portion The Scribes and Pharisees in our Saviours time boasted that had they lived in the dayes of their fathers they would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the Prophets yet these very men cruelly persecuted and put to death some of the Apostles and Crucified Jesus Christ who was the Lord not onely of the Prophets but of life and glory too though he himself did forewarn them of it and so brought upon their own heads all the bloodshed upon earth from righteous Abel to Zacharias And I fear that all these things are coming upon this Generation else what may be the reason that whilest those that are called and faithfull and chosen in the land who have been with the Lamb and who have through the power of the Lamb overcome that part of the Beast viz. that Antichristian and Malignant power that hath risen up against them at this time in this Nation whilest these I say after all their travell and sorrow in expence of blood and estate are thinking upon the sweet fruit of their long endured hardships and hazards and peace others have whet their tongues sharper then any two edged sword and have dipt their Pens in the blacknesse yea and darknesse of Hell it self continually sending forth most railing and bitter speeches and are thus afresh preparing war against them If new troubles be not creating for these men what mean those daily invective Alarms by such who are called the Ministers of Jesus Christ too which from Presse and Pulpit are ratled in the ears of our most worthy Senators and other subordinate Magistrates in the Kingdom incensing and provoking them contrary to their own judgements and reason against such who by Gods even miraculous blessing upon their weak endeavours have been theirs and the Kingdoms Saviours Sometimes dashing Hell fire in the faces of their consciences to fright them if possible into the same persecution and condemnation with themselves and then otherwhile beseeching them as they tender the Blessings Peace and prosperity of the Nation that they would rise up in indignation against these Heretiques Sectaries and Schismaticks for so they call them the Seducers and deceivers of the people to their utter extirpation the old way of Satan the great Seducer of the Nations and all such who cleave to this present world to besmear the faithfull and godly of the land in all ages with names of ignominy and reproach and so to fall upon them to their ruin and destruction Witnesses of which Truth have the prophets been in all Ages yea Christ himself and his Apostles with all the faithfull Martyrs to this yery day whose accusations still were these men are pestilent fellows movers of sedition ring leaders of Sects broachers of strange Doctrines teaching things contrary to the Law Seducers stirrers up of the people drawing disciples after them speaking against Caesar troublers of the State and the like but the Saints are in expectation that these men who thus resist the people of God as sometimes Jannes Iambres withstood Moses shall not proceed much farther that their folly shal be made manifest to all For this wicked one and all such as act from him and for him shal the Lord consume shortly by the Spirit of his mouth and destroy with the brightnesse of his coming as hath in some measure been fulfilled already in our dayes and shall be more and more till Babylon be wholly fallen as a milstone to the bottom of the Sea never to rise again any more and till the Beast be taken and with him the false Prophets and be cast alive into the Lake of fire burning with Brimston If new Gives and Fetters be not contriving for the Saints why are the poor misled and ungratefull Citizens so constantly hurried on with most troublesome and unwearied paines to remonstrate Petition upon Petition and act contrary to the Priviledges of Parliament their own interests and the Kingdomes little dreaming what a foundation they are laying for their own destruction if affairs be transacted after their desires numerously and tumultuously and now formally attending day after day at Westminster as if they intended to force the Parliament to some unjust Laws or Ordinances against other men for satisfaction of their own carnall lusts and others who continually instigate and solicite them to this service Saying in their hearts we will not have this man to reign over us Come let us kill him and the inheritance shall be ours Let us traduce these men Petition against them and every way make them vile and odious to the Magistrates and the People That now they have subdued the Enemy for us we may divide the places of Honour and Profit amongst our selves passionately and with uncivill language every where complaining of them as Hereticks Sectaries and Schismaticks and such who though they have ventured lives and estates for their preservations yet because they differ but it may be in some petty circumstance or opinion from them must be thought unfit to breath in the same common aire with them and to enjoy the common priviledges and liberties of Native Subjects though if any they have most right unto them as by birth claiming the same interests with others and having redeemed them well nigh lost by their own prowesse and valour