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A88800 Replies made to the antiqueries of Thomas Lye, who writes himself minister of the Gospel at Chard. Wherein the parish-minsters, call, and maintenance, and divers other matters now in controversie, are handled and debated, by H.L. a friend to the people of God called Quakers. Lavor, Henry. 1658 (1658) Wing L628; Thomason E934_2; ESTC R207677 54,307 76

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may it be interpreted as the voluntary bound of your malice as is well known section 25 T.L. Shall all those c. Ans The way to heaven is but one and a very narrow one it will at no hand receive the vast and spreading Compass of Tithes Glebe Augmentations together with the love of the world and lusts of the flesh these in no wise can be gotten in the waie 's so strait section 26 T.L. Whether supposing that Timothy followed the command of Paul viz. in meditating on that Word which he was to deliver c. as also in studying in the discharge of his Ministry c. he might therefore be justly charged to speak visions of his own heart Answ Timothy vvas an holy man and holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost 2 Pet. 1.21 Also had Timothy received a gift which was given by Prophesie with the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery 1 Tim. 4.14 and the spirit of power of love and of a sound mind Now dare ye say even he that is most arrogant among ye That such a gift such a spirit as was in Timothy ye also have received The Bee can convert into honey such Juices as she gathereth from Flowers The Spider contrariwise is said to turn the same Juices into poison Pick out the meaning Timothy when he cited the sayings of other holie men wel knevv vvhat he spake his understanding and spirit also being sutable and commensurate with the things he said Neither did his life give his Doctrine the lie section 27 T.L. Whether those that so far slight the Majestie of the great God and his Divine Oracles as upon pretext of immediate inspiration to rush upon them vvithout premeditation c. Answ Suppose ye that they vvho spake as the spirit gave them utterance Acts 2.4 as they were moved by the Holy Ghost 2 Pet. 1.21 in whom the Spirit of the Father did speak without their taking thought how or what to speak Matth. 10.19,20 I say did all these premeditate what they should say and yet vvere they not therefore slighters of the Majestie of the great God and his Divine Oracles as impiouslie this quaery by consequent supposeth them to have been Or think ye that they who were Christs Embassadors did by long premeditation study engender and compose those Messages which as Christs Embassadors they did deliver to others The Woman that speaketh not without taking thought aforehand what and how to speak here duty is not to teach others but her self to learn in silence Go learn what this meaneth section 28 To the following quaery concerning reading quoting and making use for edification the Books of the Prophets Apostles c. I answer That he that is duly called to this honor may take it but unto you thus saith the Lord What have ye to do to take my word into your mouths while ye hate to be reformed Or can ye being evil speak good things Or can ye prophesie when the Spirit of the Lord never resteth upon you It was not for every one to bear the Ark that had a shoulder neither yet is it lawful to every one to say The Lord liveth although he have a tongue and a voluble one too left he be found a transgressor even in speaking that thing which is true because not commanded or nor meetly qualified thereunto section 29 T. L. Whether these quaeries which you sent us were immediately inspired or rather Whether there were not a conspiracie among you for the inventing and penning of them c. Ans The Author of those quaeries pretended not himself to be a Minister of the Gospel but did direct them indeed to such as say they are Ministers and are not but are found lyars Rev. 2.2 Neither was there any the least conspiracie among us for inventing and penning those quaeries neither were they glean'd out of the Papers and Pamphlets of any seducing Leaders Ye thought we were such one 's as your selves but our wayes are not like yours T.L. Whether it be an Argument of covetousness in an humble and orderlie waie to desire opportunitie libertie countenance and maintenance from a Christian Magistrate for the comfortable discharge of our gifts and abilities Answ A Christian Magistrate will readily give opportunity liberty and countenance to the Ministers of Christ for to discharge their Ministerial gifts and abilities though by them never hereunto desired will he forbid or restrain them or else shall he be no Christian Magistrate but rather an Antichristian And as for maintenance that will he also provide them if their heavenly Father as Christ hath promised feed them not Matth 6.26 But friends if ye seek first of all the kingdom of God and the righteousnesse thereof though you never in this humble and orderlie waie desire of the Magistrate food and raiment all these things shall be added unto you But you by not believing the promises of God but seeking after all these things do openlie bewray of what generation ye are for after all these things do the heathen seek Mat. 6.32 And here by the waie I cannot but this observe That you who with such open confidence claim to your selves the glorious titles of Ministers and Embassadors of Christ do yet reckon your selves it effect to be less regarded of God then the very Fowls of the air for these the heavenly Father and not the Magistrate feedeth and rayeth too Matth 6.26 Here also I do require of you to shew any one example in the New-Testement or any thing like an example where the Ministers of Christ did ever once sue the civil Magistrate for any of these things mentioned in the quaery But hereof more hereafter section 31 Obj There is as much equity for a publike maintenance to be allowed to the Ministers of the Gospel now as there was herotofore to the Tribe of Levi under the Law Ans 1 The Levites were forbidden to have any Inheritance among the people Numb 18.25 Ans 2 The tithes under the Law were not onelie for the sustenance of the Tribe of Levi but also of the stranger the fatherlesse and the widow that they might eat and be filled Deut. 26.12.13 Deut. 14.29 So that the store-house for Tythes mentioned Mal. 3 19. had far greater allyance and resemblance to Hospitals and Alms-houses then to the called Ministers Parsonage-Barnes and Places of receit c. An. 3. The man and his house were also to eat of the tythes or the proceed thereof Deut. 14.26 An. 4 The year of tything among the Iews was on the third year Deut. 26.12 Deut. 14.28 An. 5 The Owner of the tythable Lands was to lay up the tythes within his gates Deut 14 28 And not the Levite to carry them Captive into his own private Barnes as now the called Ministers use to do from whence as to the relief of the stranger the fatherlesse and the widow with many of them there is no more return then is redemption
yet assume and challenge to themselves the Name when they have in no wise the thing it self but do lack not only all these causes that did concur to the due creation thereof but also all those vertues gifts and faculties that did accompany and shew themselvs in the right administration or exercise of the same wherefore your Ordainers be like to certain Impostors that profess indeed the true Art of Physick but cannot give a proof thereof by healing any one disease Away then with this fasting praying hand-laying Ordination which was never yet followed nor attested by a miracle or any other visible effect t is no better then that * Mat. 21.19 fig-tree that bare indeed leaves but no fruit at all Shortly after he mustereth up a number of things and calls them Doctrines by your Party a●…erted to which I forbear to answer he having not respectively cited the Books and pages where they might be found In the mean time it may not seem good proof that such or such a thing is truth because so saith Thomas Lye Neither ought it to be charged on our friends for error or blasphemie if they sometimes mistake the meaning of words they being in this behalf unlearned as also most of Christs Disciples and Ministers were whiles the learned Rabbles and Priests were bitter opposers and persecutors both of him and them section 5 T L. Whether those godly Priests and Prophets that lived by a standing-maintenance are those that are accused by Micah 3.11 to teach for hire c. Answ Here would ye methinks allude and compare your maintenance to that of the godlie Priests and Prophets of old time First Where in all the Old-Testament find you this Epithet godly standing so near the word Priest I am sure it 's a very rare conjunction Neither is your implied comparison a vvhit better theirs that is the Priests and Levites was a voluntarie contribution and of God himself ordained your's a forcible exaction and by humane Law if any whereof more hereafter section 6 Neither was this Querent vvell advised when he scoffed at She Prophetesses as he hath done it being a part of Joels Prophesies I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh saith God and your sons and your daughters shall prophesie c. Also Priscilla was one of those two that instructed eloquent Apollos in the things of the Gospel God gave the word and great was the company of the She-Preachers as the Hebrew reads it Psal 68.11 section 7 T. L. Whether Christ hath not ordained That they that preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel and that they which sow spiritual things should reap carnal things 1 Cor. 9.11,13,19 Answ To sue men at Law for tithes to recover trebble damages to distrain mens goods and take much more then is claimed is this to live of the Gospel Did ever any Priest or Prophet in the times of the Law or any Apostle or Minister since the Gospel so live either of the Law or Gospel Or will ye else grant us That never any of Christs Ministers mentioned in the Scriptures did live of the Gospel Is it not much rather to be said That to live of the Gospel is to live of such Alms and Contribution as men freelie give to Ministers as such and that vvithout the awe of any outward co-action terror of trebble damages or other peril section 8 Obj. We also live of such means as the Magistrate hath freely allotted for our maintenance Answ If indeed the Magistrate or other shall give of his own private Goods or Lands to what kind of Preachers soever for their livelihood I have nothing here to gain-say But if he shall give them that which is another man's without his consent to keep them in idleness I see not how this can be justified by the Scriptures or by any sound reason This also were repugnant to Christs own Otdinance namely That they which preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel and to live of the Gospel is not to live of any inforced maintenance as above is shewn neither can you produce any one such Ordinance of Christ that the Magistrate ought to take such course for the livelihood of his Ministers Now the Ordinance above intreated and to which the Scripture cited in the Quaery hath reference we find in Luk. 10.7,8 And in the same house remain eating and drinking such things as they give for the labourer is worthy of his hire And into whatsoever City ye enter and they receive you eat such things as are set before you From whence I note these things 1. That the Apostles were to eat such things only as were freely ministred to them 2. By them who should receive them 3. Of their meat who having a private and proper right therein should so give or cause to be given Now whether the men of your qualitie do live after this manner and rule let all sober men be Judges And albeit it were true that you sowed indeed to your hearers spiritual things yet should you not therefore reap their carnal by force muchless take them being reaped Now what kind of Seed it is you sowe doth by the Fruit appear section 9 Obj. But if we have nothing allowed for our maintenance but must depend of the charity of our hearers soon may we either beg or starve Ans Wherefore if God so cloth the grasse of the field which to day is and to morrow is cast into the Oven shall he not much more clothe you O ye of little faith Therefore take no thought saying What shall we eat or what shall we drink or wherewith shall we be clothed for after all these things do the Gentiles or Heathen seek Matth. 6.30,31,32,33 Now if so great be Gods care of ordinary Christians how much more shall he provide for his Ministers who are as it were his Embassadors and have specially addicted themselves to his service Are you his choice Darlings unto bliss eternal and wil not yet trust him vvith your bodies Are you his Labourers and vvill not yet relie on him for your Wages no not though you have his own word for it and solemn Engagement What greater infidelity then this hath any of the Gentiles ever bewrayed Neither can you avoid the Edge of this Sword by saying Your petitioning the Magistrate indenting with the people for maintenance c. is no distrusting of God for your livelihood forasmuch as the provision God makes hath made for his Ministers Livelihood is by inclining mens hearts to supply their necessities and that out of their own private goods and not out of other mens as elsewhere I have said section 10 T.L. Then do men preach for hire when they make hire their chiefest end c. Answ Yea and if they make hire any end at all do they truly preach for hire Neither are we justlie charged to intrench on Gods prerogative in that we do judg you to preach for hire for certes that can be no