which is more and worse by way of justification of your selfe That you but singled out that truth from many in one leafe before they spoyled it in the next and like Pilate who asking onely what truth was would not tarry by it but departed And doe not you Pilate-like againe turne away from the truth of a Testimony when you admit of part to serve your turne and reject another part though contiguous unto it because it is contrary to your Tenet Amongst other flourishes of falshood you say that M. L. and his associated Brethren pretend themselves to be in the mount to give lawes for religion where finde you this how can you prove it did you ever read it in any of their writings or heare it from their lips I am sure you did not how then can you object it have you the inspection of their hearts If you take that upon you you have got above fifteene cubits higher then the top of Sinai or Horeb even to Gods tribunall by whom alone the hearts of all men are to be judged And for that you say of making lawes for religion you know they have no power nor doe they take any upon them save onely by way of humble advice to present the result of their debates and votes to the Parliament concerning such matters as from either of the Honourable houses are sent unto them And now Sr to pay you in your owne coyne and returne your owne words upon you Can you bee so unfaithfull to that Booke can you who would be counted an orthodox Divine enlightened above the measure of other Ministers so grossely falsify so plaine and perspicuous a sentence The best is the world while his Booke and your Pamphlet are extant may convince you in this and now you are thus unfaithfull in a little or rather in much J may suspect you for more Can we trust you in the more excellent mysteries of the Father while you trifle thus and deceive the Brethren page 6. J. S page 7. That J am unstable To the eleventh For my unstablenesse if to bee sometimes darknes and now light in the Lord c. L. M. I will put off this to another place where I shall have occasion to bring it in that I may not trouble the Reader with a needlesse repetition of the same passage J. S. page 7. To the twelfth Nor doe I glory I hope in the quicke dispatch of what I doe but doe not you as well over-deliberate as I over-dispatch and glory in that L. M. Whether you glory in quick dispatch or no let the Reader judge upon evidence produced to that purpose page 11. 12. of M. Leys Epistle to you but you cannot object the like of his deliberations since he hath not told his Reader how long he was about any Book as you have done how short a time you took for yours For that you speake in disparagement of humane learning it is an old humour of the Anabaptists who at first rejected all Books but the Bible and after that grew so wise as to be religious enough without that also and last of all they came to blaspheme that blessed Book as a dead letter and a beggerly element and such proficients are some of our sublimated sectaries But however you slight all secular learning you must not assume to your self or your party as you seeme to doe a propriety either of interest or exercise in the word or spirit or power of Christ wherein those whom you looke upon with an oblique spirit have as good right and as fair evidence as those of your party who take upon them to be most spirituall For that you conclude withall concerning the brewer in a forme of affected gravity saying I desire not to shew so much of the old man or former corruptions as to sparkle so lightly with you Me thinks you should haue brought in a young man rather then an old man so lightly sparkling as will not become your gravity to answer him Or if you meane by the old man that part of humane nature which remaines unregenerate that though you may intend a reproach upon seniority of yeares may be and for the most part is more predominant in a young man then in an old as M. Ley hath observed in the tenth Section of his last Book against you J. S. page 7. To the thirteenth My interposing being no delay to the government as you say why then do you call my Booke a Remora and say my Quere was to retard the government I pray you now be friends with your self c. L. M. No doubt he is so and so was when he wrote those words for you might intend your Book and Querie for a Remora and yet it might and I hope it will prove otherwise Intentions and events are many times very contrarie as Joseph sayd to his Brethren You thought evil against me but God meant it unto good to bring to passe as at this day to save much people alive Gen. 50.20 J. S. page 7. 8. To the fourteenth That he may be better imployed then in writing they are your friends indeed that wish so you cannot be worse imployed then in speaking evil of your Brethren in advanceing your selves Lording it over the heritage c. L. M. As you have often set upon the Presbyterians with such slanders so you have beene e See light for smoke Sect. 6. pag. 13. c Sect. 18. pag. 51. 52. and Sect 19 pag 54. c. often answered both directly and by way of just recrimination which may be a supersedeas for my further Reply in this place J. S. pag. 8. For others undertaking me as many as please for I feare not an host nor a multitude of penmen L. M. You are so bold all men may see some unmannerly fellow haply would say so impudent that you dare contend with many together who taken single were able to crush you in any encounter that is to be managed with learning and integritie and after the rate you write you need not care how many you undertake nor they neither who are undertaken by you since you doe but with an impotent malignity nibble at the heele when you give them faire opportunity to break your head unlesse they choose rather to kicke you off with scorne then to make a serious and setled busines of combating with you J. S. pag. 8. and 9. The summe of M. Leys treatise and Answer to it L. M. You have an excellent faculty first in contracting then in contradicting and confuting your adversarie for you have reduced the summe of M. Leys Booke of seventeene sheets to lesse then a single page and confuted them all as you pretend in lesse then a leaf would it not bee fit such an able and nimble champion as you are should be set upon those great Antichristian Goliahs Baronius Bellarm. Suarez Vasques how would you enervate and shrinke up their many vast and corpulent volumes into a poor dry
AN AFTER-RECKONING WITH Mr SALTMARSH OR An appeal to the impartiall and consciencious Reader and Lover of Truth and Sincerity AGAINST His last paper called An end of one controversy or an Answer or Letter to M. Leys large last Book Written by L. M. a Student in Divinity Prov. 11.19 The lip of truth shall be established for ever but a lying tongue is but for a moment Eccles 12.11 The words of the wise are as goaâ—s and as nails fastened by the masters of Assemblies Act 9.30 It shall be determined in a lawfull Assembly Hieron Apolog. advers Iovin Tom. 2 p. 109. Sciolitantum ad detraâ—endum qui in cose doctos ostentâ—re velint si omnium dicta lacerent LONDON Printed for Christopher Meredith at the Signe of the Crane in Pauls Church-yard 1646. To the indifferent Reader REader this After-reckoning with M. Saltm was prepared for the presse the next week after he had sent forth his paper called The end of one Controversy which was time enough for answer to such a small trifle as that was begun and ended within the compasse of a sheet and an half but the Authour not importuning for the expedition used in M. Saltm his cause for which two presses have sometimes been employed to give hasty dispatch to a little pamphlet but leaving them to their own pace and pawses who sometimes make a broad blank margin of intermission as well as a leaf of laborious impression it hath been lingring in the presse untill this present Yet that delay will be recompensed in part by an additionall of satisfaction in a point of controversy of some moment more then the just proportion of a Reply to such a writer and such matter did necessarily require Whereby that thou mayest receive direction without errour be pleased to take notice of these misprisions and corrections of the Printer Errata sic corrigenda PAge 1. l. 23. for wherein read In the Answer p. 3. l. 5. for prevaricate r prevaricating p. 5. l. 3 after Mordecai r. alone and l. 4. after destrâ—y r. all p. 19. adde to M. Saltm his Text cited out of the 7. page of his paper this Are we to be ever consulting with flesh and blood did the Disciples and brethren when they spake the Word of God tugge first among so many Schoolmen So many Fathers So many moderne Divines So many Commentators So many old Poets as you doe p. 33. l. 29 dele and who p. 46 l. 11. for Thirdly r. Secondly p. 40. l. 25. for own r. one p. 51. l. 11. make a parenthesis of 3. lines and a peece from the word which to the word authors inclusively for both ends of it p. 53. l. 5. before the end blot out the figure 1 p. 54. l. 15. for imployed r. implyed p. 55. marg lit K. for quia r quin. p. 56. l. ult for swarivng r. swarving In M. L. his Light for smoke p. 16. l. 5. for Presbyteriall r. Prelaticall The Contents of this After-reckoning First BY little and cheap pamphlets the people deluded and better books if bigger and deaerer unjustly prejudiced p. 1. 2. M. Saltm makes his return with lesse conscience then the unjust steward Luk. 16.6 p. 2. and muchwhat like a bankrupt p. 7. 3. A ministry received from the hands of Protestant Bishops neither Antichristian nor to be renounced p. 3. 4. M. Saltm his scoffing misapplication of Scripture in the title page of his Paper answered and censured p. 4. 5. Vnworthy persons cryed up in a time of schisme who in times of peace were of no good note nor of good accompt p. 5. 6. It is no disparagement to truth to be frequently defended nor any point of popery to write volumes and Tomes as M. S. pretendeth p. 5 6. 7. His objection of reference to others answered p. 7 8 9 and p. 21. 8. His vain conceipt that an advice for his better employment was out of fear of the potency of his pen discovered and confuted p. 10 11. see the like p. 13 14. 9. M. Saltm his absurd comparison of prelacy and presbytery in point of tyranny p. 11. 10. Of a twosold restitution in fact or in affection p. 12. 11. Of formes of art and Logick the school of Christ and of Tyrannus and of discoveries of Christ by reason p. 14 15 16 And of humane learning p. 19 22. 12. M. Salm. not slandered by M. L. with any erroneous opinion p. 16 17 18. 13. His poor shift to excuse his unfaithfull dealing with M. Sam. Bolton p. 17 18. 14. Excesse in dispatch and deliberation compared and misapplyed by M. S. p. 19. 15. M. Saltm his self-confidence and rare dexterity in contracting and contradicting p. 21. 16. Of Tithes and their Tenure p. 23. 17. M. S. his frivolous exceptions and answers p. 24 25. A clear vindication of M. L. from vain ostentation suggested by M. S. out of C. D. his defence of M. Ley. a p. 16. ad 33. 18. M. Saltm in his collections and concealments very unsincere and unfaithfull p. 33 34. 19. M. Saltm his vain pretence of discovery of errours mistaken for truths by M L. p. 35 36. 20. His Conclusion compounded of calumny arrogancie and hypocrisie a p. 36. ad p. 40. 21. A Review of the repetition of Salmasius his Testimony 1. Touching Baptisme p. 41. 22. M. S. his immodest insisting in the saying of Salmasius after a full answer unto it 23. Of the form of Baptisme preparative and executive first of the preparative p. 42 43. 24. Five Queries of the form of Baptisme 1. Whether there be any form of words for the administration of Baptisme at all whether John used any form p. 45. 2. Whether we finde one certain and constant form of Baptisme either prescribed or observed in Scripture and what difference of forms may be collected out of it p. 45 46 47 48. 25. The third Querie Of the severall forms of Baptisme which is the chief p. 49. 26. The chief is that which is grounded on Mat. 28.19 viz. baptizing In the name of the Father Sonne and holy Ghost p. 49. For it 1. Scripture p. 49 50. 2. Reason p. 50. 3. Practicall example p. 50. 4. The testimony of ancient Fathers p. 51. 5. The testimony of Schoolmen p. 51. 6. The testimony of the reformed Churches p. 52. 27. Of baptizing by trine immersion or thrice dipping as a practicall profession of Baptisme In the name of the Father Sonne and holy Ghost p. 52 53. 28. The fourth Querie Whether any form of Baptisme be so necessary that it is not lawfull to vary from it p. 53. 29. The Apostles thought to baptize sometimes In the Name of the Trinity p. 54. 30. Of baptizing in termes equivalent to In the Name of the Father Sonne and holy Ghost p. 54. 31. Not lawfull now to alter the form of Baptisme In the Name of the Father Sonne and holy Ghost p. 55. 32. The fifth Querie If there be any variation from the form in Mat. 28.19
what may be admitted without the violation of the Sacrament what not p. 55. 33. Of Baptizing in the first person I Baptize or in the third person as the Greeks doe Let this servant of Christ be Baptized p. 55. 34. Of putting sprinkle or wash for Baptize and of baptizing In the name or Into the name p. 56. 35. Expressmention of the three persons in the Trinity how necessary p. 56. 36. Of a popish Priest baptizing in false Latine In nomine Patria Filia Spiritua Sancta p. 56. 37. Of hereticall forms of Baptisme by Marcus the heretike by Arians Eunomians and Photinians p. 57. 38. Of the Montanists adding the Name of Montanus and Priscilla to the persons of the Trinity in Baptisme p. 58. 39. Of Popish Baptisme with addition of the Virgin Maries name to the Trinity in Baptisme p. 58. 40. Of Baptizing In the name of God and the true crosse excused by Bernard p. 58. 41. What is to be done when there is doubt of the form of Baptisme p. 59. 42. Of M. Saltm his exception against baptizing In the Name of the Father Sonne and holy Ghost p. 59 60. 43. His misapplication of Salmasius his testimony for patronage of his opinion p. 60 61. 44. An Animadversion upon the unsavoury Pamphlet called A perfume c. p. 61 62. Imprimatur Ja. Cranford May 28. 1646. Praeloquium IF Mr Leys and Mr S. his Books were both of a price and ordinary Readers would not he such truants at their Books as to be best pleased with the shortest lesson there might now as Mr Saltmarsh stiles his last Pamphlet be an end of one controversie this one betwixt Mr Ley and him and he should now have that which he often striveth for as well the last word as the first in quarrels of this kinde But since Mr Leys Book is twelve times as dear as his and more then twelve times as bigg it cannot be expected that the number of buyers or Readers of both their writings will be equall and so both truth and innocence may suffer under a common prejudice if this last Pamphlet of Mr S. should seal up the difference betwixt them to perpetuall silence I shall therefore briefly and faithfully set before the Reader some particulars or importance whereby he may the better judge which of these two Antagonists carrieth his cause with clearest evidence of truth and sincerity and the summe of what I shall say shall be reduced to these two heads 1. An Apologeticall answer to Mr S. his objections against Mr L. 2. A fresh charge of objections against Mr Saltmarsh Wherein I shall distinctly consider in Mr S. his paper 1. The Title page 2. His Letter 3. His Summary accompt of Mr Leys 1. Epistle 2. Treatise 4. His Answer to it 5. His reinforcing of Salmasius his Testimony 6. His Descant on C. D. his Defence of Mr L. against the Newsmonger 7. His self-commending Conclusion 1. For his Title page J. S. An end of one Controversie L. M. The end of one Controversie as you use the matter may be the beginning of another If you had meant it should have been an end of the Controversie you would not have taken leave of Mr Ley with such an abuse of his Book and reproach of his person as could not be passed by with silence of himself or his friends unlesse the most did agree with the wisest in the censure of the sleightnesse and insufficiency of your Answer as unworthy to receive any reply but such a one as is unseemly for him to make Title J. S. Being an Answer or Letter to M Leys Large last Book L. M. So short an answer to so large a Book sure you never meant to make any Reader that could judge as well as read beleeve that your sheet and half could be a satisfactory Answer to Mr Leys Book which you summe up to 17 sheets of paper besides the Treatise of C. D. unlesse your hasty return make up a great part of the summe as in the accompt of the or just steward fifty measures of oyl quickly written down stood for 10â— as Luk. 16.6 Title J. S. In which the summe of his last Book which relates to the most materiall passages in it are gathered up and replyed to L. M. The summe is soon taken as of the number of sheets and you might do most of that without so much as reading of the Book for Mr Ley summed up each section into short contents presently after the Epistle Dedicatory but for your Reply unto it it is so poor impertinent and unsatisfactory that you had done your self more favour if you had been altogether silent then in acting the part of such a prevaricate Replicant as you have done Title J. S. By John Saltmarsh not revolted as Mr Ley saith from a pastorall calling but departed from the Antichristian Ministery by Bishops and now Preacher of the Gospel L. M. You have given over your publike Ministery at Brasteed and if you have forsaken as Antichristian that is more then Mr Ley charged you with in the Title page of his Book whence it may be probably conjectured that you either have or will renounce your Baptisme since it was administred by one ordained by a Bishop and so in your dialect an Antichristian Minister and upon this ground many who know not how to distinguish of Ministeriall Acts will haply be induced to suspect their parents marriage by such a Minister to be Antichristian and that will call in question the legitimacy of the children but none of these consequences can trouble those who hold as the Lords and Commons in their Ordinance for Ordination of Ministers have declared viz. That although the Title of Bishop hath been by corrupt custom appropriated to one and that unto him ascribed and by him assumed as in other things so in the matter of Ordination which was not meet Ordination notwithstanding being performed by him a Presbyter joyned with other Presbyters We hold for substance to be valid and not to be disclaimed by any that have received it And that Presbyters so ordained being lawfully thereunto appointed and authorized may ordain other Presbyters 2. The places of Scripture misapplied J. S. Isa 5.20 We be to them that put darknesse for light L. M. This Scripture in the sense of it maketh as much for Mr Ley as for you and in the letter more for he put not darknesse for light but light for smoke J. S. Acts 19.32 Some therefore cried one thing and some another for the Assembly was confused and the more part knew not wherefore they were come together Vers 41. And when he had thus spoken he dismissed the Assembly L. M. Because Mr Ley is stiled one of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster you take occasion to abuse the Assembly and that you may abuse them you abuse the Scripture by misapplying the Text to them which was spoken of a tumultuary meeting of Demetrius with his company and the Idolatrous
this paragraph marked with the number six he will casily perceive how feeble and frivolous a Reply this is to that which M. Ley hath written And the like conviction he may meet withall if he take into comparative consideration M. S. his next paragraph of gospell-governments pag. 10. and M. Leyes 21 Section from pag. 60 to pag. 63. Thus far for your Answer to M. Leyes which is such a one so short so slight so false and yet to a silly and partiall reader so Fallacious that he that reads both will finde cause to marvel that a pretender to wit should deale so weakly and to grace so wickedly in a cause of this kinde That which next followeth in M. S. his pamphlet is the Testimony of Salmasius which being heterogeneal from all the rest I will assigne to the last place as he did in his former answere where that cometh in as a Postscript and concludeth the Booke M. S. his causelesse and unchristian reproach of M. Ley taken without occasion given out of C. D. his Defence of M. L. printed with his Book of Light for Smoke brought in in this manner J. S. pag. 10. C. D. his Treatise printed with M. Leys Book in M. Leys commendation whether made by himself or some other he best knowes L. M. VVHether it were made by himselfe or some other it was not made against you but against a scurrilous Newsmonger as the Title sheweth and therefore herein you meddle where you should not and deserve to suffer as a busibody in other mens matters 1 Pet. 4.15 And you make it your busines to reproach M. Ley as if he were vainglorious in five particulars 1. In affecttaion of Titles 2. In mentioning of his Books printed and to be printed 3. In printing an honourable Anagram made upon his Name 4. In giving the signification of his Name in Hebrew and Spanish 5. In publishing some letters written in his commendation Whereto I shall returne you Answer 1. In generall and then 2. In particular In generall I say you have dealt very foully and unfaithfully herein in that you have concealed from your Reader the occasion and scope for which those particulars selected by you out of the Treatise were brought in which was not so much for commendation of M. Ley as for necessary vindication of him from notorious contempt put upon him in the Newsbook of that contumelious Scribler who beginneth thus with him There came out this day a Book of 106 pages written by John Ley so is the Title whether it was of the Lees French or Spanish J Leave it to others to enquire Upon these words So is the Title C. D. tells him that in the Title page of M. Ley his Book he might have knowne him as one of the Assembly of Divines and if he had enquired as the Assembly of what account he was with his Reverend Brethren he might have knowne that he was by them chosen c. And because he made a disgracefull descant on M. Leys name the greek Epigram made on it and him when he was President of Syon Colledge about an yeare and halfe before was in part repeated This might be warrant enough for him to have righted himselfe from such reproach by reporting any truth that might releive his reputation in that behalfe which though with such as knew him might be needlesse yet to most who knew him not it might be necessary and as lawfull as necessary for Though it be good advice which Solomon giveth Let another man praise theo and not thine owne mouth a stranger and not thine own lips Pro. 27.2 and the counsell holds as well in praise of the pen as of the mouth yet when a man is injuriously vilified especially a Minister of note and publique employment he may doe such an act of justice and charity to his owne good Name as well as to another mans St. Paul was as wise as modest as humble a Christian as could be and yet when his adversaries put him to it he made his owne Apology with comparative praise of himselfe with others and prelation above others 2 Cor. 11.16.22.23 and those not only the false Apostles who were emulous of his glory and envious at it but he compares himselfe with the cheif Apostles saying In nothing am I behinds the cheif Apostles 2 Cor. 12.11 and tells the Cariuthiaus to whom he wrot that he ought to have been commended by them in the same place If then M. Ley had written that of himselfe which you mention as an immodest vindication it being true and uttered it upon just occasion and had owned it in his owne name he had not for that deserved either reproach or reproofe from you or any one else and if he did it with concealment of his name he had the warrant of the same Apostle for that concealment who when he spake of his rapture into the third heaven and his hearing words unspeakable which was a matter of glory brought it in as in a third person 2 Cor. 12. v. 4.5.6 2 Whereas you say a Pag. 4. that he who speaks so much in M. Ley his praise stands a little too neere him I must tell you you are a man of small reading if you have not met with some scores of Authors of good account who have printed with their owne Books elogia or laudatory Prefaces or poems of other men not as C. D. came in on the back side of M. Ley his book when all was done but in or very neer the frontispice that they might come first in view and be most like to be read what ever was not And though your example be of little worth and weight for Answere to another mans objection yet against your selfe as * Opinor tuum testimoniü quod in alienâre leve esset id in tua quum contra te est gravissimum debet esse Cicer. Orat. 1. pro P. Quintio pag. 13. Cicero sayd of Nevius an unworthy and wicked fellow it is sufficient conviction and your selfe have published a Book of verses with as high scrued commendation both upon your selfe and them in the next leafe before your Book begun and next after your Epistle Dedicatory as could be set before the Poem of Homer in Greek or Virgil in Latine Bartas in French Quarles or Sandis in English Your prological Encomiastes cals your book * Est pius est doctus quod voco plura tuus In tâ—to minimum non cerno corpore naevum Ni naevus naevum non habuisse fiet Pag. 13. 14. pious and learned and makes as if it were the compendium of all prayse to call it yours and yet afterwards adds that in the whole body of it he sees not the least mole or freckle or blemish unlesse it be a blemish to want a blemish And yet by his leave your Poeticall Meditation on The Song of Songs deserves to be chastised in the judgement of pious and judicious Criticks for some want on expressions of
worshippers of Diana confusedly come together they knew not why And to make your meaning the more apparent you write Assembly in greater letters then the rest With what discretion can you fall upon them who did not meddle with you at all though you did what you could to provoke them with what conscience can you compare a learned religious and Reverend Assembly of Divines who were called together by the Parliament for causes known not only to themselves but all the Kingdom over who neither meet nor part without religious addresses to the throne of grace to such a superstitious ignorant and mutinous multitude But you meant not only to disgrace them but to threaten them with dismission also or at least you intimate your minde to have it so and all of your way have such ill will unto it that your first desires were to prevent it your next to disturbe it and delay the proceedings of it and now out of the same disaffection to it you desire to dissolve it But why you Mr S. should bring in the Assembly in such a malignant manner is a matter much noted by some and though they know not the reason they conjecture at these two causes thereof the one is the pride of your spirit like that of Haman who thought scorn to lay hands upon Mordecai and therefore sought to destroy the Jews Esther 3.6 though those that know Mr Ley and you say there is impar congressus betwixt you by the advantage on his side though Haman like you had not set upon the Assembly yet as if he were not good enough alone to be your match you fetch that venerable Synod within the verge of your reproof such a giant you are now grown to be by being leader of a schisme who had been but a pygmie still if you had continued among the Presbyterians just as Augustine observed of Primianus and Maximinianus that were jolly fellows in a faction else said he Primianus might have been Postremianus and Maximianus Minimianus The other conjecture is this you have honoured the Assembly too much for you almost adored them and made applications of Scripture to them which had a strong savour of Idolatry and flattery little below the height of blasphemy and now you declining that extreme stay not your self untill * Dam vitant stuâ—â—i vitia is contraria currum Wiseman like you arrive at the contrary 2. The second particular is your Letter wherein you say J. S. p. 3. I thinke not the truth I defended so weak as to need a new Treatise to bear it up I see it is otherwise with you who dare not let your former Books stand by themselves without another to support them L. M. If Mr Ley had made none answer at all you would have taken his silence for consent his silence after such a charge as you laid upon him for a confession of guilt and now he hath answered you make that an argument of a weak cause that adjective-like needs a substantive support of another book when that was not the weaknesse of the former book but your waywardnesse against it whereby you hoped to wrangle your self into some reputation by out wording your adversary as it were all one to be able to answer and unable to hold ones peace and whereas you say that you call the truth needs no new Treatise what I pray you call you this you have last written You call your former Book an Answer so do you this you call this a Letter so do you not that yet you make Mr L. his Epistles whereof the one conteineth 3 leaves the other 9 a competent Treatise of themselves and yet of your sheet and half you say that he that writes any thing of truth more properly writes much rather then he that writes against it though in more paper That 's your Aphorisme framed and applied in favour to your self but you must not be your own judge The Letter J. S. p. 3. It is indeed the way of the Popish schools to fill the world with volumes and Tomes and rather to astonish then convince L. M. And is it not the way of the Protestant schools to make up the fullnesse of that world with volumes and Tomes have not Luther Zuinglius Calvin Beza Martyr Bucer Gualter Zanchius Chamier and others made many and great books will you make that their fault which was their vertue their blame which is their glory and the Churches gain Letter J. S. p. 3. How hath truth been carried out of sight from the Reader in the labyrinth of Replyes and Rejoynders your selfe gives us an experiment in this book for how are you puzled to let the Reader know what was yours and what was mine after that and what is yours again L. M. M. Ley was not puzled but that the Reader might not be puzled nor mistaken by your imperfect unfaithfull and confused Answers he brought as much both of his Text and yours also as might sufficiently clear the truth to his understanding Letter J. S. p. 3. I hope I shall write you as much if not more in one sheet and half as you have wrote me in seventeen L. M. Belike you have some such art of couching much matter in a little room as he that * Plin. nat bist l. 7. c. 21. p 35. comprised Homers Iliads in a nut-shell or you return the paiment in gold which you received but in silver or but in farthing tokens that as much in value this more in weight and more troublesome because longer in telling but Sir they that have read M. Leys book and your sheet and half say your return unto him is after the manner of poor bankrupts or below that not paying of the debt you ow him so much as two shâ—llings in the pound and they take your comparison and prelation of your self in this particular to be but a very vain vaunting of your self which bewrayeth your want both of truth and modesty The third Particular is Your summary accompt of M. Leys Book And first of the Epistles p. 4. J. S. Your Epistles which are a competent Treatise of themselves and the very cisterne of your reasoning from which you fill all the other pages of your Book the parts of my Treatise with your Answer or rather much of your former Reply which in things of most weight is no refutation but a reference to other Divines who have writ of the same subject L. M. You presume the most of those who read your papers are the fewest of those that read M. Leys book but there are so many learned and judicious persons who have read them both that there cannot but be many witnesses of your foul and unfaithfull dealing with him and with your Readers in this imputation Sumons p. 4. J. S. It seems you have a common stock of learning among you or an argumentative treasury to which you refer us with much ease L. M. How doth it seem that Presbyterians have a
and saplesse sckeleton O for Bellarminus enervatus of your composing That of Amesius to it would be but as a rude steeple clock to a most curious pocket watch But to the particulars J. S. pag. 9. That the graduall subordination of Assemblies is made good by M. Rutherford Is this reasoning or reference and this you have done all along referred us either o your selfe or some other to answere for you L. M. Vpon your finding fault with classicall provinciall and Nationall Assemblies as no wholesome words M. f Light for smoke page 2. Ley told you that the graduall subordination of Assemblies against the Independency of Congregationall meetings was made good by a large and learned Book of M. Samuel Rutherford of which reference I see not what may offend you unlesse your idlenesse mislike the word large and your ignorance the word learned for it is an usuall and commendable course of many worthy writers for the husbanding of time that they may not actum agere to make references for satisfaction to larger Treatises then the present occasion will permit And to finde fault with M. Ley for this shewes you rather a wrangler then a Reader But whereas you say that he hath dens so all along it is not your unwitting mistake which might easily be pardoned but your wilfull slander which you should heartily repent of and of this I doubt not but there are as many witnesses as there be ingenuous and conscientious Readers of his Booke and your loose sheets And I dare challenge you on his behalfe to make proofe of any one reference either to his owne Books or any other for which there was not just occasion given approvable in the judgement of judicious men And if references come too often it is most like to be your owne fault whose importunate or impertinent iterations of the same particulars put him to it J. S. pag. 9. That your Presbyteries are not so singular more free convenient more peaceable more Apostolicall more authorized then other Churches and then you say these are good commendations but had half so much been proved by the word your government had passed before this L. M. Here you put him to a necessity of reference to his first Book unlesse he should make a needlesse repetition of a whole section Sect. 5. pag. 11 12 13. to confute your cavill where he hath given full and cleare evidence such as no rationall man can deny how Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Assemblies are more warrantable then the gathered Churches of Independents J. S. pag. 8 9. That Tithes are spoken against by those that scruple not at slander or sacriledge that they usurp upon God and his Ministers that alienate them from his worship and service Having made this the summary of Mr Ley his eighth section you adde as an Answer to it For that of sacriledge and usurpation upon God in alienating Tithes never did Prelate no nor Bishop Mountague plead an higher Title for Tithes L. M. You had condemned Tithes as Popish and Jewish undeniably Smoke pag. 25. which gave Mr Ley occasion to speak the more fully and freely in the refutation of your over-confident assertion yet did he not advance the Tenure of Tithes above that which Mr Nye a Classicall Authour with you though against the authority of classes hath affirmed of them and he named him to you yet you are silent concerning him and take up a clamour against Mr Ley as more Jewish and Popish then a Prelate yea then Bishop Mountague what partiality is this J. S. pag. 9. What sacriledge and usurpation to deny Tithes Where are you in the Covenant or no is it not a Parliament Ordinance you take them by Will you set up a divine right over that now Surely they may justly now withdraw their Ordinance for Tithes and leave you to your Divine right and see what the people will pay you L. M. M. Ley did not call it sacriledge to deny Tithes Light for smoke pag 19. though it may be true but said there was a clamour taken up against them by such as made no conscience either of slander or of sacriledge and such are many worldly Mammonists and erroneous Dogmatists and what is this to the Covenant And to that you ask is it not a Parliament Ordinance you take them by It may be acknowledged with humble thanks to the Parliament that their Ordinance is an help to recover the right of Tithes but the right of Tithes is much more ancient then that Ordinance for there are many statutes that entitle Ministers to them and allow them to sue for them by course of Law nor will the opinion of divine right in some be sufficient ground to abrogate the payment of Tithes to all though you would cry down their Tenure to fright the conscientious out of their duty to encourage the covetous in their parsimony and all to scrue up your own pensions to the higher proportion Because while they are to pay Tithes as of right to Parochiall Pastours there will be the lesse latitude in the matter and lesse light somnes in the man to make an allowance of courtesy to content you their Independent Doctours But enough of this I had thought to have made none Answer but a reference to the eighth section of Mr Leys Book which is well worth the reading and sufficient of it self for your full refutation J. S. pag. 9. To that of your commending old men and age I reverence age but not the old man in them and for dreams being more excellent then visions it is a curious speculation L. M. Vpon your preferring young men so much before old men as to say surely we may more safely hearken to the younger that see visions of Reformation then to the elder that dream dreams of it only Mr Ley made an elaborate comparison and resolution of both in the tenth section of his Book from pag. 23. to the 28. inclusively which I dare commend to the perusall of any judicious Reader and doubt not but he will think Mr Saltmarsh should not have mentioned it without approbation of the discourse and thanks to the Authour J. S. pag. 9. Why are you so much in defence of jesting and so serious in your Scripture proofs for it L. M. Because you carped at him more then once for a pleasant reproofe of your misapplication of Scripture which gave him just occasion to shew how and in what cases a taunting speech may be allowed which he hath so done Sect. 15. pag. 39. c that the most Readers your Life for one may receive instruction by his discourse and so be engaged to be gratefull to him not reproachfull as you are J. S. pag. 9. And for other Church-governments not coming under the triall of Parliament nor coming out by sheir Authority c. L. M. If the Reader please to compare M. Leys nineteenth Section wherein the Independents and Presbyterians are compared for modesty and humility with
heathen Poetry upon that sacred Sonnet And whereas M. Ley desires no more of the Licensers hand then a bare Imprimatur in the written Copy for his Book you bring your Licenser in print with some solemne attestation either of praise or of Apology on your behalfe witnesse Jo. Bachilers approbation of your Smoke in the Temple as more then ordinarily usefull in those times and his aprobation of your last Pamphlet or Letter to M. Ley as agreeable to the laws of nature and of grace wherein they who impartially peruse what is written on both sides will in the finall account resolve that he hath not so much honoured you as shamed him self Thus much for Answer to the imputation in Generall now for the particulars 1 For the Titles you mention there was just cause and occasion of their repetition because the malevolent New monger brought in M. Ley as some obscure and unworthy Levite who was not knowne by any other Title then that which belonged to him from his baptisme whereas he might have seene in the Title page of his first book against you that he was a member of the Assembly of Divines and that being remembred the other particular Titles being all of them of use for repulse of his contempt occasionally drew in one another and to a fellow of his condition the Answere was very sutable because he was most capable of such a conviction But for M. Ley himself he is so farre from a vain affectation of Titles of prelation that when many years ago he was importuned by many great friends in the Vniversity and out of it to take the degree of Doctour in Divinity he refused upon this reason as many worthy witnesses well remember because he was then in contestation with a Gentleman of his parish with whom he desired to be at peace and he would not take such a title and degree upon him as might perhaps provoke him to anger or envy though he were so Religious that being dead he hopes he is in Heaven by reason of the nominall preeminence and personall precedence which whether by right or long-received custom or both I cannot tell is assigned to Theologicall graduates of that denomination And for your scoffing close or conclusion of that titular objection pag. 11. I remember not any of the Apostles in such Offices and Titles It is a very poor and empty jeer For 1. Many things have been which you never read nor heard of 2. You remembred not that any one of them were stiled Academicall graduates as either Batchelers or Masters of Art Batchelers or Doctours in Divinity Professours of Divinity Provosts Prefects of Colledges Vice-chancellours which titles you give to Henry Smith to whom you dedicate your book and yet you will not say they are either to be denyed or derided 3. Nor do you remember I am sure that any one of them played the Poets nor took upon them the Title of Mercurius Britannicus and under that title minted and vented news for popular Information as if good Intelligencers be not mistaken you have sometimes done 4. Your exception herein is but a negative testimoniall argument in a matter of no necessity either of existence or cognizance 5. There are many particulars wherein the Apostolicall times and after ages do not agree and yet the dissent is no fault on either side of this you may read an Epistle of * Doctour Hall 5. Decad. of Epist Ep. 2. pag. 164. Doctour Hall before he was Bishop I say before he was Bishop that you may not startle at the testimony as if it were Antichristian wherein he sheweth by many instances the difference of the present Church from the Apostolicall and needlesnes of out conformity thereto in all things to which observations of his it is easy to adde much more then he hath said to the same purpose The second particular is the mention of his books printed and to be printed which served to the same end viz. further to confute the conceit of the scurtillous Novellist concerning M. Ley whom he so named as to make his Reader believe he was a man unknown untill he appeared against his misinforming passages wherein it is observable that C. D. left out some books of M. L. partly printed and partly licensed for the Presse and you out of what motive you best know leave out some which he hath mentioned But to the approbation given of them you say give them leave to speak themselves in this point pag. 11. If you mean this of the books as you use that phrase after wards they have spoken as much as others say of them if of the Readers they will speak or write their judgement of them as some have done allready whereof sufficient proof may be produced when just occasion requireth The third Exception you take is at the Anagram and Epigram on M. Ley his name made when he was President of Syon Colledge about a year and an half age which was in part Printed in Greek as it was penned by one learned man and rendred in English by another both Masters of Art and Divines of many years standing because it very well served to oppose the reproach of the Pamphleters Etymology or rather pseudology of his Name from the Lets of wine French or Spanish but it was so contracted and turned by M. Leys direction as might well have prevented M. S. his imputation For First The epigram consisted of twelve Greek verses and he would not suâ—â—er so much as two of them in the Translation to be printed Secondly He caused the second verse in English to be broken off before the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because he would not have them translated as speaking more in his praise then his modesty would admit Thirdly In that second verse be put out the word rare and put in the word now in stead of it and so farre abated the honour of that Epithete as to make it no more thon such an addition as might be applyed to any person thing or action though as meane and contemptible as his adversary or his scandalous and scurrilous Queres put out against them Fourthly This modesty hath been imputed to him as a fault from the hand of a learned Friend who had a sight of the verses in a M S with a request that he would prefixe them entirely before the next Booke of his that commeth forth and there is one ready for the Presse of his transcribing that words are part of a latine letter lately written to M. Ley which for the learned Readers satisfaction I have set in * Vtinam integrum epigramma subjectsset Novello mastix vir cruditus ingeniosus nec solum distichon lectori donam celasset Illas laudes quibus nemo te neseentium modò probus sit Graeculus non libentissimè subscripsisset etsi autem mutilumin praesentiâ Novello-mastix ediderit quod tuo nimto modestiae tribuendum est sore tamea non despero ut persectum aliquando
good reason at least to doubt of it yet is it very ancient and that in the judgement both of * Ibid. Protestant and Popish Authours r Origen in Rom 6. anno 226. Origen Å¿ Greg. Nazianz Orat. 40. in Sanct. Bapt. an 370. Greg. Nazianzen t Epiphan haeres 62. Sabell an 370. Epiphanius u Ambros Mediolanens de spir Sanct. l. 1. c. 4. an 374. Ambros Mediolanensis w Gaudent Brixiens Tract seu serm 14. an 390. Gaudentius Brixiensis x August l. 13. contra Maxim c. 13. an 420. Augustine y Cyril Alexand. lib de recta fide ad Theodos Imperat. c. 32. an 430. Cyrillus Alexandrinus z Gennad Massil lib. de Eccles Degmat c. 52 an 490. Gennadius Massiliensis a Fulgent lib contra objectiones Arianorum in epileg object 10. lib de Trinit ad felicene Notar c. 2. an 500. Fulgentius b Priâ—sius in cap. 22. Apocalyps an 545. Primasius All these were in the first five hundred years after Christ In the sixth Century was Gregory sirnamed the Great of whom the saying is he was the last of the good Bishops of Rome the first of the bad and from him such as were held most Orthodox in all age both taught and administred Baptisme only In the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost After the Fathers rose up a race of Divines called Schoolmen of whom the first and as it were the Father of the rest was c Petr. Lombard l. 4. sent dist â— p. 701. an 1145. Peter Lombard called the Master of the Sentences because he collected the sentences of the Divines of former ages and drew them into questions under severall titles in four books whereof the first is of the Unity of God-head and Trinity of persons And in the fourth book where be treats of the Sacraments he affirmeth that the Apostles Baptized both before and after the passion of our Saviour In the name of the Father Son and Holy ghost and according to him in this particular have the schoolmen that came after him resolved for the constant us of Baptisme in that form whereof to give in a Catalogue with their testimonies in a Chronologicall order for the times wherein they wrote would be a long labour and of little use since though universall consent of all sort of Authors make much for the honour and estimation of any truth yet in this case it is needles because there is no learned Reader will doubt of it and the ignorant will receive little satisfaction by a list of their names and Testimonies who are altogether unknowne unto them If we draw neerer home for time and place and conformity in religion we shall find the Doctrine and practise of the Reformed Churches concurring in this forme of Baptizing In the Name of the Father Son and Holy ghost which is a thing so well known by the Harmony and Syntagma of Confessions and by the observation of such as have lived among them that it were a superfluous paynes to produce the proofe of them in particular Unto plain and expresse Testimonies by words we may adde a reall testimony by action for baptizing In the name of the Trinity which is the practice of Baptizing by trine-immersion or thrice dinning and washing d Petr. Lomb. l. 4. Sent. Dist 3. p. 70â— ex Greg. Ep. 41. Leandro Episc whereof two reasons are rendred by Gregory the one with significant relation to the Trinity of persons in the Unity of the Godhead the other to the sepulture of our Saviour for three dayes space but the principall is the former And this manner of Baptizing is very ancient for we find it the practice of the Church in e Dehinc termergitamur Tertul. de Corona milit c. 5. Ter ad singula nomina in personu singulu mergimur Idem advers Praxeam c. 26. Tortullians time so ancient that divers of the f Ambros l. 2. de Sacram c. 7. Hieron advers Luciscrum August Serm. 29. 201. de Tempore Fathers take it for an Apostolicall tradition and some have put it into an Apostolicall Canon to be observed upon a penalty in these words g Si quis episcopus aut Presbyter non trinam immersionem unius mysterij celebret sed semel mergat in baptismate quod dari videtur in Domini morte deponatur c. Can. Apost 50. If any Bishop or Prosbyter do not celebrate the mystery of Trine immersion or thrice dipping but dippe but once in baptisme which seemes to be given in the death of the Lord let him be deposed for the Lord said not Baptize ye in my death but going teach all nation baptizing them In the Name of the Father Son and holy ghost But these Canons are not Canonicall Orthodox Divines reject them as a parcell of Apocrypha and the e Vid Petr. Sete Praesat in Caranz Sum. Concil Papists themselves admit of them but in part and though if any should baptize but once out of an hereticall misapprehension of the blessed Trinity such a single immersion f Theodoret. l. 4. de haereticor fab might be condemned as it was in the Eunomians who in opposition to the Doctrine of the Trinity dipped but once yet there is no doubt but such as baptize in a sound sence and judgement of the unity of the Godhead and Trinity of persons though they do it but once doe not amisse g Petr. Lomb. l. 4. sent dist 3. p. 702. for both are lawfull and as the Schoolmen determine either of them may be used according to the various custome of orthodox Churches and for this the fourth Councell of Toledo h Concil Toletan 4. in some Edit Can. 5. Tom. 4. Concil p. 583. col 1. Edit Bin. 1636. made an expresse Canon decreeing for a single or simple dipping against another sort of hereticks who by a trine immersion professed more then a personal distinction of the Father Sonne and holy ghost as if they were of three distinct natures not three distinct persons onely and by this decree they endeavoured to take away a scandalous difference of Baptisme in Spain while some baptized with a single and some with a three fold immersion or dipping and by once dipping and thrice nameing of God by the Trinity of persons there was an Antidote provided against both sorts of heresies i Bonavent in 4. Seat dist 3. part 2. art 2. q. 1. and the manner was this At the first dipping the Father was named at the second the Sonne at the third the holy ghost The fourth Querie Whether any forme of baptisme be so necessary that it is not lawfull to vary from it The resolution of this Querie is very various For 1 Besides that we have observed before out of Bellarmine concerning Johns baptisme without any forme of words we are to observe 1 That some hold there is no set forme of Baptismeset downe in scripture which is necessary