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A26776 An answer to (vindicate the cause of the nick-named Quakers of such scandalls and untruths as is falsly cast upon them in a lying pamphlet, otherwise called) A discourse concerning the Quakers set out by T.L., or, as I understand the signification of the letters, Tho.? Ledger / by Geo. Baiteman. Baiteman, George. 1653 (1653) Wing B1094; ESTC R4254 26,089 36

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all things But I would have the Author and all others to understand themselves better and then they shall understand Scripture better I would know of the Author what Scripture it was that the Apostle meaneth of when the Scripture which we have at this day was not written many a yeare after the time of Abraham but if the Author cannot tell I will declare to him what Scripture that was The Word Scripture is two-fold and to be understood in a two-fold sence the one Essencyall the other Declarative Now the Scripture Declarative is written in Paper by men and had a time for its beginning and so there is a time for it to end but the Scripture Essenciall hath its being in it selfe and is Eternall and shall have no end and this Scriture is the true Essenciall Word of God or his Sonne Christ by whom all things were Created and this Word was in the beginning and this Word was God and nothing was made or brought to passe but by this Word John 1. 1. 2. and this Word was the Wisedome of God by which he spoke and acted and fore-seeth things to come and it was this Word or Scripture that fore-saw by which God fore-told Abraham things to come and this Word or Scripture and God is all one And the Apostle who knew the truth hereof divers times useth the Word Scripture for the Word God when he is speaking of Gods fore-seeing speaking or acting as may plainely appeare where he saith The Scripture hath concluded all under unbeleife Gal. 3. 22. the which act the Scripture Declarative never could doe but the Scripture or Word Essenciall which is God the truth of which is cleared by the same Apostle speaking of the same subject where he saith That God had concluded all under unbeleife c. Rom. 11. 32. And further in speaking of what the Scripture said to Pharaoh Even for this purpose have I raysed thee up c Rom. 9. 17. which saying was not spoken to Pharaoh nor which worke was wrought upon him by the Scripture Declarative but by the Scripture or Word Essentiall which was God himselfe as may be seen in Exodus 9. 16. where it was plainly held out that it was God that spake these words and wrought that worke upon Pharaoh Now I would have that Author and all other to understand the true distinction between the Scripture or Word Essentiall and the Scripture or word Declarative for if they doe not it is possible they will adde to the one and diminish the other and then let them take heed of the curse that John speaketh of at the end of the Revelation But the Author goeth on in his Discourse in his blindnesse and all along attributeth that to the word Declarative which is the proper worke of the word Essenciall and so brings to prove what he ●aies the saying of the Apostle in Heb. 4. 12. where it is said The Word of God is quicke and powerfull and sharper then any two edged Sword c. the which he falsly applyeth to the Scripture Declarative which in it selfe is as dead as a stone except the Essenciall word first move in the heart of man otherwise how is it that all mens thoughts and intents is not discovered by Hearing or Reading it but what the Apostle speaketh there is the very worke of the Essenciall word or God himselfe as the following verse of the same Chapter will truely witnesse where the Apostle doth more illustrate and lay open the property of the Essenciall word and saith Neither is there any creature that is not manifested in his sight but all things are naked and layd open before the eyes of him with whom we have to doe And doth not God plainely declare by the Prophet That it is he himselfe that searcheth the heart and tryeth the reines Jer. 17. 9. 10. O what blindnesse is amongst men yea amongst Professors also that they cannot see nor be made beleeve what is the word of God but in their blindnesse taketh the Scripture Declarative for the word of God for which they have neither example nor command in that Scripture they doe so much Idolize but onely as they have received that word by Tradition from their fore-Fathers who was blinded in their understanding and could not know any other word of God and so gave that name to the Scriptures because they were not acquainted with the Essenciall word within them therefore their wit carryed them to Scripture without them and finding some saying in it which suited with their reason as such sayings as these They spake the Word of God with boldnesse Acts 4 31. But the Word of God grew and multiplyed Acts 12. 24. Not handling the Word of God deceitfully Rom. 4. 2. Take the Word of God which is the Sword of the Spirit Ephes. 6. 17. It is sanctified by the Word of God and Prayer 1 Tim. 4. 5. and divers other speaking in Scripture to that purpose which all of them is the proper effects of the Eternall Word the Sonne of God the which but few of our wise learned Rabbies have knowne and therefore have they understood that these sayings which held out the property of the Eternall with its effects to be the property of the Scripture and its effects But when our Saviour who was the Word it selfe had occasion to use Scripture he gave no such title to Scripture but said It is Written in such a Booke or Is it not Written in your Law John 10. 34. And when the Apostles had occasion to speake out of the Scripture did they not follow the same rules And when the Apostle Peter would pronounce the Scripture by another name he calleth it A sure Word of Prophesie But this epithite the Word of God was not at all given to it untill the Eternall Word was hid and man wanted the life and power thereof within him and then his wit found the Word of God without him and to these dayes our wise Rabbies understand it so and makes Fooles beleeve that what they say is true and under this pretence they take to themselves the name of the Ministers of God and that which they Preach is the Word of God when as they know not what the word of God is but what they gather out of the Scriptures which is nothing else but a Declaration of the word of God without a man but as for that which is the Word it selfe the which should live in them and they in it and what that word spake in them to declare to others alas they know not what it meaneth but busyeth themselves to persecute and scandalize these in whom the Essenciall word liveth and they in it And that Author being of the Disciples of thefe Rabbies doth play his part on their side and in his Discourse runns himselfe stone blinde about advancing Ordinances and Scripture to that end for which they were never intended but if the blind leade the blind they had best take heed of
AN ANSVVER To Vindicate the Cause of the Nick-named Quakers of such scandalls and untruths as is falsly cast upon them in a lying Pamphlet otherwise called A Discourse concerning the Quakers set out by T. L. or as I understand the signification of the Letters Tho Ledger By GEO BAITEMAN A Word to the Reader of this Booke IT is common among the sonns of men every one to vindicate his own cause whether he be in the right or wrong For Solomon saith Every man seems to be just in his own cause And the truth is every one will speake the best he can in his own behalfe But Christian friend whatever thou art that Readeth these ensuing Lines I would have thee to understand that I have not written these Lines in my own defence or to vindicate my selfe of any aspersions that any can cast upon me in any kinde whatsoever for though I am a man who have undergone and at this day doe undergoe the heavy burthen of false aspersions cast upon me by the fools of the times who neither know me nor themselves yet to me they are no more then the barking of curs the which may affright children for my backe is broade enough to beare all the weight of these burthens and am possessed with a Spirit that maketh me easily passe by all the censures of men and had the cause been my own which is included in these Lines I thinke they had never come to the beholding but my Spirit is such that it leadeth me out rather to justifie others then my selfe for I would have thee to know that my Sect or Profession Tenets or Religion call it what thou wilt is neither of that sort of People called Quakers neither am I Papist Prelacyan Presbyterian Independant Anabaptist Famelist Brownist Arryan Atheist Free-willer Free gracian Raunter Saduccy or Lihertine c. then make of me what thou pleaseth yet such a one I am as knoweth my right hand from my left and that is enough for any man to know and by that light in me I am made in some measure to see what is of God and what is of man and what is of the spirit of darkenesse I professe unto thee I am not the Enemy of any man neither doth any mans Forme or Religion trouble me but wish all men well in their way yet I must tell thee that I am not unacquainted with the wyles of Satan in Formes and out of Formes and likewise of Gods working both in Formes and out of Formes and what I have found by experience I wish that all men had found the same and a● hundred times more And I must tell thee I am led out to owne the truth of God where ever I see it in a Forme or out of a Forme but the purest truths is not manifested in Formes though Formes may have their time and in their time is tollerable if not Idolized And to give thee a true Reason why I was led out to draw these Lines it is to vindicate the truth in its appearing in some people in these dayes the which is disposed to the scandall and reproach of most people in these times some by wrong imprisonment some by beating some by threatning some by false accusations and scandalls some by Petitions and some by writing lying Pamphlets all of these arising from the very malice and instigation of the Devill who would have these poore people destroyed for he well knoweth that if these goe on his kingdome will fall Amongst those whom the devill moveth to act and speake against these people one T. L. or Tho Ledger hath written a lying Pamphlet the which I have here answered in some of his false accusations therein and if time would but have permitted I would have answered them more fully but what is here spoken I hope may serve to give thee satisfaction of the truth in these people and if thou have but any light of God in thee thou wilt see and mayest easily judge that these people are no other then such as God hath marvailously called to himselfe to make the riches of his goodnesse knowne in their soules and what ever either Formalists or other say against these people take thou heed thou be not as one of them for better were it for thee to have a Mill-stone hung about thy necke and throwne into the midst of the Sea then that thou shouldest offend one of these that beleeve in God in whom Christ liveth and they in him And for thy better information in the truth I haue drawne these Lines the which I freely commit to thy Christian consideration and the Lord give thee a good understanding that thou mayest learne to have a good opinion of any People in whom the truth of God doth appeare And my desire is that the God of Truth may make his Truth knowne to thee whereby thou mayst be made to know what evill is in thy selfe and the emptinesse of all things acted and created let thy Forme be what it will This is the worst I wish thee Geo Baiteman An Answer to vindicate the cause of the nicknamed Quakers c. THere is two great monsterous evils in the world and they are common among the sonns of men and from these two evills ariseth all other sinnes and wickednesse whatsoever acted spoken or thought either against God himselfe or against any appearance of God in his creature Man and by the venome which ariseth from these two evills one man is set against another in bitter envyings evill wishings evill speeches evill actings c. Now these two great evills is the very ground and originall Rice of all other evill as is before-said the one of these hath its proper being in one of the chiefe faculties of the soule viz. the Reason and by the operations from thence proceeding the sonnes of men becommeth much deprived of the pure understanding of the truth as it is in Jesus And the other great evill hath its proper being in another chiefe faculty of the soule viz. the Will from the operations of which evill ariseth all disobedience and rebellion against the Truth as it is in Jesus yet the difference between the sinns arising from these grounds is great though nothing that ariseth from either be good the evill effect proceeding from the ground or cause in the Reasonable part will be found inferiour to these which ariseth out of the Will Yet wise Solomon saith Without Knowledge the Soule is not good Prov. 19. 2. And God complaineth by the Prophet That his People perished for want of knowledge Hos. 4. 6. And Solomon who knew how wicked the sonns of men were without knowledge and how darke and blinde they were in the understanding the dictates of God without Knowledge how oft doth he counsell men to seek W. sedome and prize her above Gold But who is that wise man that can truely distinguish between the Wisedome of God and the light which is in Reason which may be much increased