Selected quad for the lemma: book_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	call_v	name_n	write_v	6,549	5	5.6975	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19220	The Catholike moderator: or A moderate examination of the doctrine of the Protestants Prouing against the too rigid Catholikes of these times, and against the arguments especially, of that booke called, The answer to the Catholike apologie, that we, who are members of the Catholike, apostolike, & Roman Church, ought not to condeme the Protestants for heretikes, vntill further proofe be made. First written in French by a Catholike gentleman, and now faithfully translated. See the occasion of the name of Huguenots, after the translaters epistle.; Examen pacifique de la doctrine des Huguenots. English	Constable, Henry, 1562-1613.; W. W., fl. 1623.	1623 (1623)	STC 5636.2; ESTC S109401	62,312	88

THE CATHOLIKE MODERATOR OR A MODERATE EXAMINATION OF THE DOCTRINE of the PROTESTANTS Prouing against the too rigid CATHOLIKES of these times and against the Arguments especially of that Booke called The Answer to the Catholike Apologie That we who are members of the CATHOLIKE APOSTOLIKE ROMAN CHVRCH ought not to condeme the PROTESTANTS for HERETIKES vntill further proofe be made First written in French by a Catholike Gentleman and now faithfully translated See the occasion of the name of HVGVENOTS after the Translaters Epistle LONDON Printed for NATHANIEL BVTTER 1623. THE TRANSLATER TO the Christian Readers AND TO ALL THOSE ESPECIALly whose hard hap it is or may be to be seduced vnto Popery That by the helpe of this Booke and their owne Prayers they may be deliuered from the the Euill when the Priests and Iesuits would Lead them into temptation THere is a bold Nation of men the Tempters aboue mentioned I meane slily of late crept in amongst you well-meaning and abused people whose enticements as you know too well still begin with the Church saying you Protestants are direct Hereticks you haue no Church Are you therefore reconciled to the Church Meaning all this time the Romane Church Had they fairely meant the Catholike Church I know no Caluinist that hath put this Article out of his Creed I beleeue in the holy Catholike Church And to say I beleeue What else implies it but to beleeue himselfe to be of it else why his Creed That therefore you may make one Romanist to answer all the rest doe but turne him that would seduce you vnto these two first Chapters and he shall there finde that for those few points of Reformation both in matter of Doctrine and Ceremonie wherein the Protestants haue iustly dissented from the Papists we can be no Heretiques And that their owne new Doctors who boast so much of Antiquitie can no where shew our Doctrine to be sufficiently condemned before the time of that fifth Gospell of the Romanists the Councell of Trent I meane which ended no more than some 60 yeeres agoe the third Chapter will euidently shew them And how incompetent a Iudge an Aduersarie is and how vnlawfull a Councell that of Trent was the Instances of the fourth and fifth Chapters will euince it Lastly that we Protestants hauing euer continued true members of the true holy and catholique Church doe not now need any Reconciliation to theirs of Rome the last Chapter will abundantly demonstrate it Which six Chapters being written by a Gentleman who euery where professes himselfe one of theirs if they would offer to shift off as they haue euasions enow by saying that what is written in this Booke is but the opinion of one Doctor Loe then we haue not only the Authors opinions but the strength of his reasons to vrge them withall All which are so mannerly so directly and so succinctly toucht vpon and come off so handsomely as no man in my opinion hath yet said better that purposed to say so little To giue you therefore the minde of the Authour in a word Nothing was here written with any intention to vrge vs Protestants any whit to depart from our Right in yeelding to a Reconciliation with them but to perswade them rather to esteeme better of vs and to demonstrate withall that if they will iudge right they must needs thinke well And this is the purpose of the Translator also To shew you therefore to vnderstand all this Booke If the Reader shall sometimes feele that this Author now and then giues the Protestants a light fillip by the way he shall obserue in the conclusion that it was to reach his owne Romanists a smarter blow which is satisfaction enough And that hee giues vs any at all let vs but consider that the Author though he were a moderate man yet that he was withall a Papist and it will take away much of the scandall Lastly which will giue vs as much aduantage as we can desire from one man which is to answer them by one of their owne this Gentleman the Author H. C. was too well knowne here in England to haue continued a most zealous Roman Catholique vntill his dying day and yet neuerthelesse are all his Reasons for Moderation directed to the Papists as if they should first begin it and all his conclusions directly for the Protestants as though we should still hold them Nay and which is somewhat more whereas all this is with vs of England common to our Brethren the Protestants of France yet doth this Booke make more for vs at home than it doth for them for whose sakes it was first written For though we haue with them entertained the points of Reformation yet haue we not so far receded from the more Primitiue Roman Church which he stands for but that we still retaine more of the necessarie Ceremonies Solemnities and Church Discipline than they of France haue done witnesse his second Chapter of Ceremonies which is still for our aduantage As therefore this little Booke hath beene twice already printed in France which is an Argument of the Protestants good liking of it there so hath it foure or fiue seuerall times both by Diuines and Gentlemen of our owne Religion been translated both into Latine and English which is a demonstratiue Reason to me how much it hath beene lik'd and desired To saue therefore the labour of writing it out which I still obserued as many desirous to doe as could get Copies of it I haue thought fit to let mine be published desiring all those that light vpon it to be as impartiall and charitable as the Author himselfe wishes them which if they be I hope well that the strictest need not be offended and the well-minded may reape much benefit by it Which being my only desire I shall euer pray for THE FIRST OCCASION how the name of HVGVENOTS which our Author euery where vseth came first to be giuen to the French PROTESTANTS THere is euer some Salt as well as Gall in malice and this temper makes it sometimes bitterly witty as may appeare by this name of Huguenots by which and no other doe the French Papists generally vouchsafe to call the Protestants It was taken vp about the yeere 1559. which was some foure or fiue yeeres before Mr. Calvins death Till which time they were called Tourengeaux of the Citie of Tours where the Protestants mostly vsed But about that time there hauing beene a foolish opinion of a Night-Spirits walking vp and downe the streets which they called King Hugon This fancie made one of the Citie Gates to be called King Hugons Gate and the Protestants being once obserued in the night to goe thorow that Gate vnto their Assemblies and holy Exercises were hereupon called Huguenots He that will see more of this Name and the occasion of it may finde a handsome Discourse of it in Monsieur Pasquiers Recherches lib. 7. cap. 52. whither I refer you TO ALL THE KINGS FAITHFVL SVBIECTS and principally

affirme for ought that I haue yet seene that the errours of the Huguenots are not so grosse as that they impeach their being members of the Catholike Church To cleere which point I will reduce these questions to these foure heads 1. The Scripture 2. Iustification 3. Prayer 4. The Sacraments Concerning the Scripture he chargeth the Huguenots only with one errour which is that they reiect the Bookes of Tebit Iudith the Machabees and the rest which they call Apocryphall notwithstanding that they were approued for Canonicall by the Councell of Trent To which I answer That the Huguenots doe not altogether reiect them but esteeme of them as of holy writings and full of pietie of greater authoritie than any other booke only they doe not state them in the same ranke with the other bookes which are found written in the holy tongue And this it seemes to me that Bellarmine after a sort accords vnto for that in his diuision of the Bookes of the Old Testament he makes two Classes In the first hee rankes the bookes receiued by the Huguenots And those which be called Apocryphall in the second But what though the opinion of the Huguenots bee in this point condemned by the Councell of Trent yet is the Councell of Laodicea cleere on their sides And so are also Hierome Origen Nicholaus Lyra himselfe Cardinall Caietane and many other pillars of the Roman Church So that I would faine know if that this errour of the Huguenots be so enormous as that for this cause they must necessarily be Heretiques wherefore then did it not as well hinder Hierome from being a Saint and Cardinall Caietane from being a Catholike Now vnder the title of Iustification I cōprehend al the differences mentioned in the answer which were determined in the sixth Session of the Councell of Trent touching 1. The Cause 2. The Matter 3. The Instrument 4. And the Effects of our Iustification By the Source or principall Cause I meane That disposition by which our Nature as we Catholikes vse to say being both preuented and accompanied by the grace of God prepares it selfe to Iustification that is to say To the operation of the Free-will which remained in man after his Fall For the compounding of this difference mans Free-will must be considered in these three estates Before the Fall of Adam after the Fall and in the time of his regeneration after he was againe restored Wherein there is contained whatsoeuer is necessary for a Christian to beleeue namely That man before the Fall of Adam had Free-will both to good and euill And that by his Fall he lost the libertie to doe good And that by Grace in his Regeneration he againe recouered it Thus farre the Catholikes and the Huguenots are agreed The imaginarie controuersie then lies only in the manner how this will is enfranchised or made free The Huguenots auerring That t is the Grace of God which sets it at libertie by giuing it new powers whereof it was altogether destitute before The Catholikes likewise auerring that the grace of God hath set it at libertie by loosing the chaines wherewith it was before so captiuated that it could not set a worke the powers that it had See here then the true difference betweene them in this point wherein though the Huguenots may bee deceiued yet is their errour nothing so dangerous as to ouerthrow the foundation of Faith In the discussing of which point we are principally to regard two things The Iustice of God in punishing Adams sinne by this captiuitie and his Mercy againe in freeing vs. Now if the Huguenots be in the wrong their errour is onely in augmenting the Iustice and Mercie of God by affirming That the freedome of our wills is not onely bound but slaine as it were Death now is a more grieuous punishment than imprisonment and it is a greater mercie to giue life to the will than libertie But what need the common people breake their braines about these Metaphors of binding and killing which they can neuer comprehend T is sufficient for them to know that nothing can be done without Gods good grace and to say all with Saint Austen To doe freely comes from the Nature of man to doe well from Grace but to doe euill from our corrupt Nature Which saying as it containes the whole doctrine of Free-will so is it consented vnto as well by the Catholikes as the Huguenots The second thing which I obserued in Iustification is the Matter that is to say Whether that righteousnesse which is infused into vs by Grace or that of Christ imputed vnto vs by Faith be it by vertue whereof we be iustified before God And this question though it be all one with that of Iustification yet our aduersarie thereby to multiply the number of his controuersies makes two of them so desirous hee is of contention Concerning which point the Huguenots are in no error in the ground and substance of the question so that though they may be thought to differ neuer so much from vs in the circumstances yet may they for al that be very good Catholikes For example A tree which hath the Root Stocke many Armes of it sound may be a good tree though some one bough be crazed But the Catholikes and the Huguenots are agreed vpon the Root of the question that is to say That there are two things necessary That we be first quit of our Sinnes and that wee be next indued with Righteousnesse to put off our old garments and re-invest our selues with new 1. Vpon the first the Catholikes and the Huguenots are agreed namely That we are pardoned of our sinnes and redeemed from hell meerely by the blood of Iesus Christ. 2. Touching the second both sides hold alike That to be admitted entrance into heauen we haue need of Righteousnesse and that this Righteousnesse comes from Christ. Now the Righteousnesse which is of Christ is either Inherent in him reputed ours or Inherent in vs proceeding from him being by his grace infused into our hearts which Act the Huguenots call Sanctification Finally the Huguenots confesse as well as the Catholikes that there be indeed both these kindes of Righteousnesses onely they differ vpon this whether the Righteousnesse Inherent in Christ and imputed to vs or that Inherent in vs and proceeding from him be it by vertue whereof wee become iustified in the sight of God And what is it to vs whether another man paies our debts for vs or giues vs money to pay it our selues So that in a manner they both acknowledge the selfe same Root the same Stocke and the same Armes of this question onely they cannot agree vpon the smaller Branches which grow out of these Armes Nay more they both acknowledge the same Branches too but they cannot agree vpon which of them they should roost For the Huguenots confesse that whosoeuer are saued are also first sanctified that is to say That they haue that kinde of Righteousnesse

Catholikes and Huguenots thus farre forth agree in Doctrine that they are both of the same Faith and Religion IT is most cleare that men of the same Church and Religion may differ neuerthelesse about some opinions in Diuinitie Austen accords not to Hierome nor Epiphanius to Chrysostome nor Cyprian to Cornelius nor Irenaeus to Victor and questionlesse one of them was in the errour yet were they all Doctors approued by the Church and Saints euery one of them Euery errour doth not separate a man from the Church nor should we regard so much the number as the qualitie of them Arrius accorded with the Catholikes in all points but one insomuch as the change of a word yea of one bare letter would haue compounded the controuersie and yet was he the greatest Heretike that euer the Church was troubled with Origen on the other side dissented in infinite Tenents from the other old Doctors and was yet neuerthelesse esteemed a member of the Church To see then whether the Huguenots be of another Religion than wee neither their errors nor their numbers is the thing which is so much to be regarded but the nature of them only is it That is to say what Errors are to be reputed for Heresies and whether theirs be of that nature There be two things which according to the opinion of the Catholikes make Errors to proue Heresies The one when the Errour is of it selfe so enormous that he is at all times an Heretike that holds it So that euen before the Nicene Councell had decided it Ebion Paulus Samosetanus and Arrius stood then as Heretikes for that they denied the eternall Diuinitie of the Sonne of God The second thing which according to our opinion makes an Errour to become an Heresie is when any man maintains an opinion in point of Doctrine contrary to the Decrees of a Generall Councell So then the Heresie lies not so much in the mischieuousnesse of the opinion as in the resistance made against the ordinance of the Church For example The opinion of S. Cyprian touching Rebaptization was not Heresie in him because there was not as then any Decree of Councell made against it But since that say we this opinion is condemned legally it were flat Heresie in any other that should hold it Of this second Species of Heresie I will intreat in my third Chapter In this only of the former which is Whether the errors of the Huguenots be in themselues so enormous that they destroy the very foundation of Faith and by consequence keepe them off from being of the same Religion with vs. Let vs see then how our Antagonist takes vpon him to proue the contrary In the first place saith he both parties as well the Catholikes as their Aduersaries repute one another for Heretikes I answer that I finde no impossibilitie why they may not be both deceiued For two brothers being in choler may well renounce one another and yet they leaue not for all that to continue true brothers alwaies Cyrill and Theodoret accused one another for Heretiques and yet neither of them was so So that this reason is only drawne from the passion of men when Reason hath abandoned them But how doth he proue that the Catholikes repute the Huguenots for Heretikes The Catholike Church saith he hath by the Councell of Trent condemned diuers of the Lutheran opinions I answer according to my first distinction that it is one thing to returne an opinion for an heresie by condemnation and another thing to repute it so of its owne nature Now whether or no the Huguenots be hereticks by condemnation we will argue it hereafter in our third fourth and fifth Chapters But here we dispute only of the nature of their errour wherein his proofes are nothing to his purpose But saith he At Rome euerie holy Thursday the Pope pronounces them excommunicate and prohibits all Chatholikes to reade their Bookes In like manner the same day also he excommunicats all sinners of whom hee dares not denie but that many are of the Church else should he himselfe be condemned for an hereticke by the Councell of Constance which gaue sentence against Iohn Huz That the Church consists as well of the bad as of the good And whereas the Huguenots Bookes be prohibited so are also the Bookes of Machiauel Aretine and diuers other Catholikes Let vs next see the opinion which the Huguenots haue of the Catholike Doctrine Caluine saith he writes that the principall points of Doctrine in the Church of Rome are almost vtterly abolished and the right vse of the Sacraments in many fashions corrupted He needs but little explication the words themselues answer him Caluin saies not that the Sacraments are vtterly taken away but the right vse of them many waies corrupted Nor that the principall points of Religion are vtterly destroied but almost abolished A man may be almost kild and yet liue Secondly to proue how their Religion differs from ours he produces the controuersies of Originall sinne Free-will Iustification Merits and diuers others which he iudges of most consequence It is the greatest pittie in the world to heare how the most of the Preachers in both Religions commonly fight with their owne shadowes not vnderstanding what it is that their aduersarie holds which comes only of the subtleties of words inuented by the Deuill to disturbe the Peace of the Church One partie vnderstanding the word Iustification in one sense and another in another one Faith one way and another in another one Grace in one fashion another after another and so of the rest that which we say being true in our acception of the word and that which they say being likewise true as they take it So that if the desire of contention were once taken away we should soone finde that the most of these disputes wherewith peoples eares are filled are onely the subtelties of the Schoole vpon the Etimologies and Definitions of words only Whence it came to passe that in the conference at Regenspurg the Catholikes and the Protestants fell to some agreement in the question of Originall sinne of Predestination Free-will and diuers other points which is also confessed by Bishop Lindanus one of the tartest enemies that the Huguenots euer had Neue●thelesse the Authour of this answer is so ill aduised as to chuse out these questions principally to shew the differences betweene them and vs. For mine owne part I will not take vpon me to reconcile the said questions neither know I well to confesse mine owne ignorance freely whether it be possible to be done or no only thus much I assure my selfe that the difference is not so great as it is iudged to be Nor will I too exactly search out the point in controuersie because I well hope some other man may more happily performe it hereafter Only I will discourse vpon the said questions as they are commonly vnderstood by the best Doctors in each Religion In which sense I

the Huguenots say much failed in all these circumstances For first it decided before it measured for as much as euen before their comming to the Councell they were euery man of them resolued to condemne the Huguenots Secondly in examining and measuring of the questions it measured not by the written Word only but by Traditions also as it was agreed vpon at the fourth Session of the said Councell So that it measured sometimes either without a Rule or at least by a Rule very contrary to that of the Councell of Nice Thirdly admit that it had measured by a true Rule yet did it not so much apply the doctrine to the Rule as bend the Rule to make it fit to the doctrine viz peruerted the Scripture by an interpretation forced to their owne opinion For in the fourth Session it was decreed That no man should giue any other interpretation then that which was consonant to the doctrine of the Church of Rome So that in stead of measuring their doctrine by the Rule they measured the Rule by their doctrine But he followes it further against the triall of the Spirits that if we should try all then should we call againe into question the very Bookes of the holy Scripture it selfe I answer no and that it followes not that we should call in question againe the bookes approued by ancient Councels because they reiect some which are approued by the Councell of Trent seeing that in this particular the iudgement of that Councell is suspected euen by Catholikes themselues For Sixtus Senensis a great Catholike yea euen since the Councell of Trent hath reiected for Apocryphall the seuen last Chapters of the booke of Hester which were approued by the Councell of Trent which doubtlesse he would neuer haue done had he held it vnlawfull to try the Spirit of the said Councell Thirdly he argueth that if matters already determined and defined may be brought in question againe what end then would there be of Controuersies I answer that this reason is not sufficient to stay the triall of Councels because that this is the way to set an end to Controuersies for that it is not enough to dispatch Controuersies vnlesse we be sure that this dispatching is a well ending of them And so the Arrians might euen as well haue perswaded vs to rely vpon their packt Councell of Ariminum to giue an end to Controuersies To which our Aduersarie can shape no other answer but that their Councell was not lawfull and that the Councell of Trent was Well then say I that though wee may not examine the Decrees of a Councell yet may we try whether the Councell were lawfull or not and for this once we desire no more aduantage then this and thus much must be granted vs in despite of the world For if we ought simply to rely vpon the Authoritie of Councels which commonly passe for lawfull amongst our Doctors without any further enquirie there is no reason wherefore the Graecians should rather assent to the second Councell of Nice which allowed of Images then to that of Constantinople made vp of 300. of their owne Bishops which condemned them The fourth Reason for which he takes away the libertie of trying their doctrine from the people is quoted out of the 17. Chapter of Deuteronomie where it is commanded That men should enquire of the Priests and Leuie●s and the Iudge appointed for the time in cases of difficultie And Moses saith our Aduersarie addeth not Try the Spirits of the Priests and Iudges But if any grow proud and will not obey the command of the Priests that man shall die by the sentence of the Iudges Nor is this much different from that which our Lord saith in the Gospell of Saint Mathew The Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses chaire whatsoeuer therefore they say vnto you that obserue and doe As for Moses Commandement it was giuen vnto the Iewes whereupon Rabbi Salomon Iarchi concludes That we are to beleeue whatsoeuer the Iewish Priests say Since then that their Priests interpreted the Prophecies euen of Christ himselfe otherwise then we Christians doe A Iew will say that Christ is not yet come because their Priests deny it and if according to our Aduersaries saying we ought not to trie the Spirits of their Priests I demand then how he will answer the Iewes and I will answer him as he does them namely that in the text this clause is inserted According to Law that is to say we are to obey their Commandements so farre forth ay they are agreeable to the Law which how can we know vnlesse we examine it So that let our Aduersarie take his choice either to confesse that we are not in this place forbidden to try the Spirits of the Priests or else to acknowledge himselfe to be a Iew. To the place of Saint Mathew because he saith how that it is not much vnlike our answer shall likewise be the same For our Sauiour hath not commanded vs to obey the Pharisees in all things simply but not to take such scandall at their liues as that we should refuse to obey them when they speake well For should we simply giue credit to what they bid vs without tryall of it why should we beleeue that Iesus Christ is the Sonne of God when as the high Priest said that hee blasphemed in calling himselfe so His last reason is drawne from the Councell of the Apostles mentioned Acts 15. It seemed good vnto the holy Ghost and to vs Whence he concludes That Gods Spirit is so infallibly tyed vnto a lawfull Councell that we ought not to call the definitions of it into question nor would Saint Paul himselfe saith our Aduersary examine the instructions of the Councell of the Apostles as Saint Luke saith Acts 16. Hee gaue them that to obserue which was ordained by the Apostles and the Elders which were at Ierusalem I would faine aske one of our Catholike Doctors to what purpose are there so many disputations and consultations at our Councels if so be that the holy Ghost doth so infallibly direct them His answer will be That Gods ordinary prouidence is such as that hee still assists them with his Spirit when they for their parts apply that diligence which they ought and not otherwise Iust as hee makes not the ground fruitfull but when the husbandman tills and sowes his corne in it and applyes such labour as the soyle requires And thus much is cleare by this passage namely That the Apostles did apply all industry and the aptest meanes for the resoluing of the doubts proposed for it is said That after a long disputation Peter stood vp whence a man may conclude That the holy Ghost is no otherwise promised to a Councell then conditionally viz. when the Councell doth apply all the meanes and industry on their parts for the finding out of the truth and that otherwise it may be destitute of Gods Spirit namely when it doth not apply