may be knowne by some periphrasis D. Featly What say you then to the Hereticks called Acephali who are so called because their Head Author cannot be named nor particularly described yet the Author was a visible man Are all visible mens names vpon Record are al the Records that were in former times now to be produced Heere diuers of M. Fishers company called Names Names Names D. Featly What will nothing content you but a buttery-Buttery-book You shall haue a Buttery book of names if you will stay a while Master FISHER'S Answer To this obiection touching the Acephali M. Boulton answered that those Acephali held some particular Doctrine which did amount to the nature of a name sufficient to distinguish them from others insinuating heereby that these Acephali were not Anonymi Further it may be answered that it is not certaine whether they had any particular Author for some say that they were a company who in the controuersie betwixt Iohn the Bishop of Antioch Cyril of Alexandria behaued themselues like Neutrals submitting themselues to neither as to their Head Others think that they were certaine men who beeing the Fauourers of Petrus Mogus the Heretick did afterwards renounce him from beeing their Head because he would not accurse the Councell of Chalcedon Others say that one Seueius Bishop of Antioch was their Author But howsoeuer this particular were it doth not conclude that there could be in all Ages visible professors of the Protestants faith whereof no story nor other antient Monument maketh mention of names or opinions or places of aboad of any of them or of those who opposed them as Stories make mention of some of these circumstances both of the Acephali and whatsoeuer other eminent professors of euery true or false Religion Wee doe not require that all visible mens names should bee vpon Record nor all Records produced For although to prooue such a visible Church as that of our Sauiour Christ described in Scripture to bee spred ouer the world a small number of visible Professors bee not sufficient as Saint Austen prooueth against the Donatists yet to shew how confident wee are of our cause wee for the present onely require that Three eminent Protestants names in all Ages be produced out of good Authors But they are so farre from beeing able to produce three as they cannot name one in euery Age as is cleerely proued in the Protestants Apology neither indeed can they abide with any patience when they bee much pressed in this point as appeareth by diuers who haue beene vrged and in particular by D. Featly in this Conference who hauing beene called vpon seuerall times to produce Names as hee had vndertaken at one time he burst foorth into these words set down by the Protestant Relator What will nothing content you but a buttery-buttery-book you shall haue a buttery-buttery-book if you will stay a while Note Reader this Doctors want of grauity and patience and what a fit title he giues to a Catalogue of names of Protestants who indeed are more like to be◠found in a Buttery-book then in any good Record of antiquity as hauing had their beginning of late in one Martin Luther who after his Apostasie more respected the Buttery then any Ecclesiasticall Story Doctor FEATLY'S Reply In the Answer to this Paragraph first you shake hands with the Acephali afterwards you salute the Donatists in the end you take vp your lodging with the Spright of the buttery in whose company it seemes you take most delight To beginne with your Acephali These Acephali were a shole of Hereticks bred as it should seeme of the spawne of Eutyches Dioscorus for they held that there was but one nature in Christ viz. the diuine which they affirmed to haue beene crucified These differed from other Hereticks in this especially That whereas other Hereticks for the most part took their names from the Author and Head of their Sect as the Arians from Arius the Nestorians from Nestorius c these Hereticks because their first Author could not bee certainly knowne were termed Acephali from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 priuatiuo and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifying a Head as if you would say Head-lesse Hereticks So that as Pliny writes of the herb Anonymos nomen non inueniendo inuenit that it took it's name Anonymos from the want of a name so it may be truly said of these Hereticks that they took their name from the want or at least ignorance of the name of their parent and first Author Thus your Alfonso deduceth and expoundeth their name Haeretici Acephali dicti sic nominati sunt 〈◊〉 simul insurgentes nullus repertus est quiillarum esse◠princeps atque magister The Hereticks tearmed Acephali were so named because multitudes of them rising together there was found none who might be their Head and Master Neither doe you in your Answer contradict but rather confirme this Etymology by rehearsing diuers and sundry opinions touching their Head and Author Which variety of opinions and difference of Authors about him plainely argueth that no certainty was or can be had of him who he was and much lesse what was his proper name Wherefore distrusting your former Answer you adde a second saying Howsoeuer this particular were it doth not conclude that there could be in all Ages visible professors of the Protestant faith whereof no Story nor other antient Monument maketh 〈◊〉 of names or opinions or places of aboad of any of them 〈◊〉 of those who opposed them I grant it doth not conclude so much neither was it brought to conclude so much it prooueth sufficiently what intended viz. That your Question is grounded vpon a false Supposal it cutteth M. Sweet's reason in the hams If there were visible Protestants in 〈◊〉 Ages then certainly they may bee now named The Head and Author of the Heresie of the Acephali was I suppose a visible man yet can he not now nor for ought appeares could he then when hee broched his Heresie be named In like manner the 7000. that neuer bowed their knees to Baal and all your Ancestors descending from Noah were certainly visible men yet can they not now be all named and therefore M. Sweet's Argument ab authoritate negatiue and à negatione vocis ad negationem rei is a poore fallacie fit to bee ranked with that which they wrongfully fasten on my Argument à priori viz. petitio principij or the begging the Question I wil not say that in disputing about the Acephali you shew your selfe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but certainly in that which followeth you shew your self 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 else you would not so ignorantly apply Saint Austens proofes in his Book against Donatists to disprooue our Church For it is well knowne that we teach with Saint Austen that Christs visible Catholique Church is dispersed farre and wide ouer the face of the whole earth But you are the Donatists of our Age for as the Donatists confined
the Catholique Church of Christ to Africa and therein to the Sect of Donatus so you also restraine the Church of Christ to Rome and the Popes adherents We teach with Saint Austen Non Romanos sed omnes gentes Dominus semini Abrahae media quoque iuratione promisit That God promised with an oath to Abraham not the Romans but all Nations for his seed We beleeue that wheresoeuer the Scriptures are receiued and Christs Sacraments administred God calles some by ordinary meanes and consequently there is a Christian Church though neuer hearing of Rome or Papall Iurisdiction who are ordained to saluation Wee account all that professe the name of Christ Doctrine of the Gospell to be members of the visible Catholick Church yet with this difference some are sound members and parts others vnsound and these more or lesse Wee doubt not but Christ hath his flock vnder the Turk and Tartarian and Mogol in Asia Africa Europe yea Italy and Rome it selfe euen in the denne of Antichrist And therefore we are the true Catholicks who maintaine verè Catholicam Ecclesiam a Church truly Catholicke and you are the Donatists and Masters of the separation of these times who damne all sorts of Christians saue those who are content to receiue the mark of the Romish Beast in their fore-heads What then speake you of three Protestants to be named in euery Age Although our Sauiours words are most true Where there are two or three gathered in my name there am I. And although Tertullians inferences from those words are most true Vbi tres sunt Ecclesia est licèt Laici sint Where there are three there is the Church yea though those three bee Lay-men and In 〈…〉 Ecclesia est the Church is in one or two men yea Alensis and diuers among you remembred by Tostatus affirme that from the time of Christs suffering vntil his resurrection sides in sol◠remansit beata Virgine that onely the blessed Virgin perseuered in the faith and consequently that the Church subsisted for that time onely in her Yet God be blessed for it wee need not to fly to any such defence We shall bring into the field pares aquilas nay plures aquilas more ensignes and banners then you yea incomparably more for the first and best Ages and if you exceed vs in the latter I wish you to remember that in time in liquors the lees and mother gathers towards the bottome and a spoonefull of pure wine is better then a Hogs-head of dregs Yea but we are so farre from beeing able to produce three Protestants in all Ages as we cannot name one in euery age How proue you this Forsooth M. Brierly hath prooued it to your hand A beggerly Rapsodist whose patched cloak is already all to-be-tome by one of our noble Mastiues and the ragges that remaine as I am informed will be shortly by another puld away Were M. Brierly a man of better iudgement and more integrity then our worthy Morton now Lord Bishop of Couentry and Litchfield hath prooued him to be yet beeing a knowne Papist to alleage meerely his work and words to mee is but a dry kinde of proofe and therefore you did well in this place to knock at the Buttery-dore And heere I intreat the Reader to note how the very name of the Buttery reuiues the Iesuite In all the other passages of his Book there is nothing that pretends to wit or mirth but heer he is very pleasant now his dull wit is whetted he was not able in all the Conference nor since in his Answer to send out such a flash Will you know the reason The Spright of the Butterie possesseth him and thus he diuines The Protestants cannot abide with any patience when they bee much pressed in this poynt as appeareth by diuers that haue been vrged and in particular by Doctor Featly in this Conference who hauing been called vpon to produce Names burst forth c. It is true I burst forth not into a passion as you would make the Reader beleeue but into a laughter as did the rest of the company neither did I by any gesture or speech discouer my impatience but your folly who when I alledged you reasons and testimonies were not content with them but called for emptie names c. And what was this but to call for a Colledge buttery-Buttery-book which is nothing but a Register of the names of such as are in that societie If the sprite of the Butterie had not obfuscated your braine surprized your iudgement you might haue vnderstood plainly perceiued that I cōpared not a Catalogue of noble Confessors and Martyrs of the Catholique Protestant faith to a buttery-Buttery-book but such a Catalogue as you then required and you vsually bring to proue the visiblity of your church viz. a companie of names and nothing else testes sine testimonijs witnesses deposing nothing for you And may not such emptie Catalogues be fitly compared to Butterie-books Note Reader say you what a fit Title hee giueth to a Catalogue of Names of Protestants who indeed are more like to bee found in a Butterie-booke then any good Record of Antiquitie as hauing had their beginning of late in one Martin Luther who after his apostasie more respected the Butterie then any ecclesiasticall storie I maruell not that you Yeomen of the Popes Butterie and Pantry and the Blacke-gard of Rome haue a sharpe tooth against Luther who by burning the Popes haruest of Indulgences hath made the Catalogue farre lesse of those that brued for the Friers Buttery and baked for the Popes Kitchin Certainly if Martin Luther had so fat a belly as you paint him with hee did but hold that which hee got among you for after hee for sooke Sodom which you Apostataes call apostasie hee so hated and detested the gluttony and drunkennesse of Monks and Friers and so sharpely inueighed against them that Erasmus sometimes spake as truly as wittily of him That though hee otherwise highly esteemed of him yet hee could not but confesse that hee was much too blame in two things that hee presumed to touch the Popes Crowne and the Monkes bellie Wherefore seeing Luther deserueth no better of your fraternities strike him out of your Butterie-booke and put Father Parsons in his place the grand Master of your new equiuocating Religion or religious equiuocation because good man his name was strucke out of the Buttery-booke of Bailliol-Colledge in Oxford and hee expeld for falsifying the Butterie-booke and thereby cozening and purloining the Students of that Colledge The Protestant Relation Paragraph the seauenth touching the comparison betweene a proofe à priori and à posteriori Doctor Featly That Church whose faith is eternall is so visible that the Names of some professors thereof may bee shewed in all Ages But the faith of the Protestant Church is eternall and perpetuall Ergo. Master Fisher. Faith eternall Who euer heard of faith eternall Saint Paul saith that faith
excuse the matter saying Fâ—gisse Haereticos atque in praelatos ac monachos se abdidisse that the Hereticks which seemed to bee flowne away in this Age were not indeed vanished out of the world but lay close and hid themselues vnder Bishops Rochets and Monkes Coules where neither Prateolus nor Norice durst to search for them As this ninth Age so the tenth and some others after were very barren of learned Writers And therefore no maruaile if the haruest wee gather in these Ages of the professors of the truth and defenders thereof by writing bee very thinne for to leaue an Armie of bastard apocryphall Authors as the Papists do to maintain the Popes title or in so weighty a cause to rely on the ragged regiment of Authors mustred vp in Orthodoxographia bibliotheca veterum et Epistolae obscurorum virorum c. I hold it rather a dishonor and disaduantage then any credit or aduantage to the truth The fift Assertion Since Boniface the Third's time in the seauenth Age and much more since Hildebrand in the tenth such was the greatnesse of the Pope and transcendent power of the See of Rome that few durst or might write freely against the errors and vsurpations thereof And therefore it is not to be maruailed that we haue not many but it is rather to bee maruailed that wee haue any who haue displayed the abominations of the Whore of Babylon The Answer of a Poet in Augustus time is very famous who beeing demanded why he replied not vpon Augustus who had writ against him a bitter Satyr cleanly wiped his lips and said Periculosum est 〈◊〉 â—um scribere qui potest proscribere It is a dangerous thing to giue him a dash with a pen who is like to requite it with a slash of a sword to obiect against him in inke who can returne an answer in blood Pone Tigelinum teda lucebis in illa Qua stantes ardent fixo gutture fumant Set the Pope or Church of Rome out in her colours and shee will make you a light of the Church by burning you at a stake Platina and Occham long ago vpon iust cause and lamentable experience cast this bloodie aspersion on the Pope and his Adherents Occham frameth his inditement in these words Vt intentum 〈◊〉 horrendum ad finem possint perducere defendentes vâ—ritatem prosequuntur interimunt innoxium sangâ—â—nem fundunt That they may bring their horrible purpose to passe they prosecute such as maintaine the truth murther them and shead their innocent bloud Platinaâ— in these words 〈◊〉 mandataâ— Christi quise Vicarium eius dicit credâ—â—â— in verba Dei exurit Hee condemneth the commands of Christ who professeth and calleth himselfe his Vicar and burneth such as beleeue in the words of God Laurentius Valla for writing freely against the forged donation of Constantine lost his libertie and Countrie too Occham was so bold to strike at the Popes triple Crowne and to oppose some doctrines of the Church of Rome that hee was therefore excommunicated by the Pope and so grieuously persecuted that he was constrained to flie to the Emperor for succour to whom hee made this reasonable motion Tu defende me gladio ego defendam te calamo Defend thou mee by thy sword or power I will defend thee by my word or pen. Were the Waldenses and Albingenses murthered by thousands for Heresie No Rainerius cleareth them of that Omnia rectè de Deo credunt They beleeue all things rightly concerning God Why then Solummodo Romanam Ecclesians blasphemant Clerum They speake euill of the Church of Rome and the Clergie The opinions of the Albingenses saith Hallian did not so much stir vp the hate of the Pope and great Princes against them as the libertie of speech did wherewith they vsed to blame the vices and disolutenes of the said Princes and Clergie yea to tax the vices and actions of the Popes themselues This was the principall point that brought them into vniuersall hatred What was it so inflamed the Pope against the Hussites that hee proclaimed two Croisadoes and imploied great armies against them Their administring the Sacrament in both kindes maugre the sacrilegious decree of the Councell of Constance No. That he could and did dispence with all It was that article of the Hussites gathered out of their writings by Alanus Papaest â—estia de qua habetur in Apocalypsi 12. Datum est ei bellum facere cum sanctis The Pope is the beast whereof it is said in the 12. of the Reuelation It is granted to him the beast to warre with the Saints Hincillae lachrymae Nay rather Hinc ille crâ—or This kindled such a fire against the deare seruants of Christ that nothing could or did quench it but their bloud shed in great abundance For some hundreds of yeeres the chiefe Records and Monuments of the Westerne Church haue been in the hands of our Romish aduersaries who haue partly burned them partly corrupted them and partly kept them from vs. And herein they deale with vs as Theramenes his Colleagues dealt with him who hauing a purpose to question him for his life first strooke his name out of the Catalogue of the gouernours of the Citty and then articled against him And when he pleaded the priuiledge of all those whose names were written in the Catalogue they barred him from this defence saying That he could not plead that priuiledge because his name was not in the Catalogue In like manner our aduersaries take away from vs or make away from vs our records and then they non-sute vs for want of euidence Gregorie the great wrote manie things preiudiciall to the Popes pretensions and vsurpations and therefore Sabinianus his successor burnt diuers of his bookes as Platina intimates and Sixtus Senensâ—s expresly affirmeth That his most wicked emulators did burne the greater part of Gregories works presently after his death Auentine brandeth Pope Hildebrand with the marke of a corrupter of Chronicles and a razer out of them the things that were done Cocleus writeth of Hus Dum duceretur ad locum poenae videns in coemiterio libros suos comburi subrisit proper eam stultitiam While hee was led to the place of execution seeing in the Church-yard his bookes to bee burned hee smiled at that follie And his smiling may seeme propheticall for notwithstanding all the meanes that they could possibly vse to root him and his writings out of the memory of men yet both through Gods mercy are preserued and some few works also of Wicklef But the great bulk of them not much inferior to the quantity of Saint Austens works could not escape the fire beeing so narrowly searched after by the command of diuers Popes yea and Kings too If we might haue accesse to the Popes Library we doubt not but that wee should finde many more bookes written both in Latine and Greek against the Pope
of Prague it appeares by those his words in Asser. articul 32. Iohannem Hus et Hieronymum viros catholicâ—s combusserunt haeretici ipsi Apostatae Antichristi discipuli they burnd Iohn Hus and Hierom both Catholique men they being themselues Heretiques and Apostataes and the disciples of Antichrist And in his first preface to some of the Epistles of Hus prefixed to the works of Hus In numero istorum operum sanctissimi Domini papae habetur et hoc quòd in Constantiensi Concilio optimum et pijssimum virum Iohannem Hus damnauit In the number of those workes of the holy Father the Pope this is one that in the Councell of Constance hee condemned Iohn Hus a man of singular worth and extraordinary piety And in the second preface Has Epistolas sancti Martyris Iohannis Hus c. These Epistles of the holy Martyr Iohn Hus And in his third Preface A fide dignis hominibus percepi Imperatorem Maximilianum de Iohanne Hus dicere solitum Hei hei secerunt bono illi viro iniuriam Et Erasmus Roter in primis libellis quos typis excusos adhuc mecum habeo manifestè scribit Iohannem Hus exustum quidem sed non conuictum esse Tale omni tempore bonorum virorum iudicium fuit quòd illata ei sit vis et iniuria Et paulò pòst porrò In confesso est attestantibus et aduersarijs quorum ipse nonnâ—llâ—s eosque magnos theologos audiui ante annos 30 fuisse 〈◊〉 excellenter doctum et eruditione atque doctrinâ antecellüisse omnibus Doctoribus in toto Conciliâ— Ego olim Erphordiae studij Theologiae tyro incidens in librum sermonum Iohannis Hus prae euriositate quadam incendebar desiderio cognoscendi quaenam dogmata haeresiarcha ille sparsisset cùm hic liber in publica Bibliothecâ ab incendio sernatuâ— esset â—itertâ— inter lâ—gendum obstupefactuâ— admiratione afficiebar propè incre dibili quam ob causam tandem exâ—â—â—â—s esset vir tantus in explicandâ et tractandâ scripturâ tam dexter et grauis c. I haue heard from men of credit that the Emperour Maximilian was wont to say of Iohn Hus Alas alas they did that good man wrong and Erasmus Roterodam in the first bookes which hee printed lying yet by me writeth that indeed Iohn Hus was burned but not conuicted This was the iudgement of learned men alwaies concerning Iohn Hus that great wrong and violence was offered vnto him For proofe whereof hee alleageth Doctor Staâ—pritius and Andrew Praule and in the end addeth moreouer It is a thing confessed euen by our Aduersaries themselues some of whom beeing great Diuines I heard 30 yeeres agoe that Iohn Hus was excellently learned and farre beyond all the Doctors in that Councell I my selfe when I was a young Student in Diuinity at Erford meeting with a booke of Sermons penn'd by Iohn Hus was inflamed with a desire of reading it thorow that I might know what were the heresies which this Arch-heretick broached This book was happily kept from burning lying hid among many other in the publique Library in the reading whereof I was amazed and could not sufficiently admire what the cause might be that so great a Clarke so expert and dexterous in expounding and handling Scripture should bee burned Thus you see how farre Luther was from detracting from any of his fore-runners to whom hee yeelded as ample a testimony for the Truth as they had yelded to the Truth And I desire the indifferent Reader to obserue how Iohn Hus his prophesie before his death was fulfilled in Luthers vindicating his doctrine and person Iohn Hus his words were which are yet to bee seene stamped in antient coyne currant among the Hussites Centum reuolutis annis c. After a hundred yeeres you shall answer God and mee and some affirme that hee added Iam Hus that is in the Bohemian Language Goose but there shall follow mee a Swan c. And indeed after a hundred yeeres that Swan appeared in the world which most sweetly beganne to record the pure notes of the Songs of Sion whose strong quill hath eternized Iohn Hus his innocencie of life and purity of Doctrine Master FISHER Wherefore the Lutheran Conradus Schlusenburg saith It is impudencie to say that many learned men in Germany and the like is of other countries before Luther did hold the doctrine of the Lutheran Gospell And another of them not onely saith in effect thus much but prooueth it by this Argument If there had beene right beleeuers that went before Luther in his office there had beene no need of a Lutheran reformation Another saith It is ridiculous to think that in the time before Luther any had the purity of doctrine and that Luther should receiue if from them and 〈◊〉 they from Luther considering saith hee it is manifest to the whole world that before Luthers time all Churches were ouer-whelmed with more then Câ—merian darknesse and that Luther was diuinely raised vp to discouer the same and to restore the light of true doctrine Doctor FEATLY'S Answer First I would haue you to know M. Fisher that I hold my self no way bound to giue an account of euery rayling or ouer-lashing Lutherans speech no more then you will vndertake to make good euery inuectiue of the secular Priests against the Iesuites such Writers of the petâ—y forme of little antiquity and lesse learning were not wont to be alledged in controuersies of moment in Diuinity But I perceiue by you M. Fisher that according to the Prouerb all is fish that commeth to your net If these three had ioyntly testified that for which you cite them yet their testimonies might soone bee blowne away by the conspiring breath of many Protestants of better rank then they Regius alledged by your owne Brerely testifyeth most expresly the contrary Dico fuisse ante Lutherum verae Religionis et qui cum Luthero per omnia consentires coetum Ecclesiasticum etsi à pontificijs non fuerit agnitus nec propter tyrannidem pontificium fortasse ostendi visibiliter potuerit I say that before Luther there was a companie professing the true Religion of the same beliefe with Luther although this company was not agnized by the Papists nor peraduenture could visibly be shewne or poynted at by reason of the Popish tyrannie Whitaker auowes Regius Our Church was then viz. in the Ages before Luther But it was not visible saith Bellarmine to weet in the Popish sense What then Will it follow that therefore it was not at all in the world By no meanes for it lay hid in the Desart Oâ—colampadius and Martin Bucers Letters to the Waldenses are extant in their works I might alledge the testimonies of Constance and Bullinger Vesembekius Viret Vigneaâ—s Caluin Beza Humfrey Fox Illyriâ—us and many other Protestants of higher rank then such sneakers as Schlusenburg or Myllius or Morgenst All the