THREE Contending BRETHREN Mr. WILLIAMS Mr. LOB Mr. ALSOP Reconcil'd and made Friends By an Occasional CONFERENCE WITH Three Notorious Hereticks Mr. HVMPHREYS Mr. CLARK Dr. CRISP And Abram said unto Lot let there be no strife I pray thee between me and thee for we are Brethren Gen. 13.8 A Man that is a Heretick after the first and second Admonition reject 3 Tit. 10. Quin laniant mundum tanta est discordia fratrum By Calvin Anti-Crispian London Printed for J. Harris at the Harrow in Little Britain 1698. BOOKS Publish'd by the Author and Sold by John Harris in Little Britain WIlliam Pen and the Quakers either Impostors or Apostates which they please proved from their avowed Principles and contrary Practises A Censure of George Fox's Journal and an Answer to B. C. and W. C. his Trepidantium Malleus intrepidanter Malleatus A Reprimand for the Author of a Libel entituled George Keith an Apostate Vindiciae Anti-Baxterianae or Animadversions on the Life of Mr. Baxter An Apology for Congregational Divines against the Charge of Crispianism countenancing of Tradesmens Preaching and Causeless Separation from the Publick Worship A DIALOGUE BETWEEN Mr. Williams Mr. Lob c. Mr. W. WELL met honest Mr. Lob. Mr. L. May I say honest Mr. Williams Mr. H. Yes you may and tell as notorious an Untruth as he Mr. A. Why so hot Sir for you ought rather to understand Mr. Williams figuratively than be so keen against them both let me refresh your memory If Durior impropriae est Catachresis abusio vocis Contra quam sentit solet Ironia jocari Insultans hosti illudit sarcasmus amare will not do I hope This will Antiphrasis voces tibi per contraria signat As Symphora for Adversity tho' it signifie Prosperity Auri Sacra fames holy Covetousness for wicked This is known to all Orators Youths as well as Men. You know Christ call'd Judas Friend had you been by Christ when he thus did what would you have said Mr. W. Brother Humphreys I assure you I spoke in the common literal sence of the word without a Trope for I think many Mistakes in Opinion and Rashness in Words and Weakness in Actions consistent with Honesty Mr. H. Do not call me Brother for I disown you as such you are a Brother of Mr. Alsop that old Calvinist he is become your Defender We now see what you are You are able to distinguish and distinguish and distinguish a Man out of his Senses no man since Mr. Baxter died is able to understand you as if not only materialiter and formaliter stricte and late and a thousand such distinctions might unty many a Knot but as if the old Archipodialiter and reflexive c. must come in for a share But as it hath been long and often observed of the Popes of Rome none were more cruel than the Clements none greater Cowards than the Leos none more mischievous than the Bonifaces none more vile than the Innocents so none less honest than you two call one another as you please It was an Innocent that interdicted this Kingdom in the Reign of King John and made Pandolphus the Monk poyson him when he laid his Crown and Scepter at his Holiness or if you please Innocency's feet Mr. L. I pray Mr. Humphreys how came you to have so hard an Opinion of Mr. Williams to question his Honesty tho' I never question'd your denial of mine for asserting the old Protestant Doctrine of Justification by an imputed Righteousness in it self not in the Effects only You know Mr. Williams is yours not ours Mr. H. How Mr. Lob this is a foul mistake for I averr he is not ours but yours he hath shaken Hands with Mr. Baxter and bad him Good-night This I have told the World in a Discourse of Justification and what I there say I stand to You and he are both one in Doctrin tho' not Phrases for he asserts Justification by imputed Righteousness not only in the Effects of it but in se Mark Sir in se in it self What material difference can then be between you two And to be plain I care not for your Protestant Doctrine for I speak roundly and censure the Doctrine as Protestant And I say with the Roman Catholicks Our Righteousness is the Righteousness per quod by which we are justified and the Righteousness of Christ is the Righteousness propter quod for which we are justified Mr. C. I say my Brother Humphreys is in the right and many a precious Letter between him and me will be shortly printed I in my Book of Justification flee directly in the Face of our first Reformers as erring Men for talking of Imputed Righteousness I tell all the world 〈◊〉 my Doctrine Arminianism Popery or Socinianism 〈◊〉 not I there say Justifying Faith Repentance Regeneration the New Birth Gospel obedience is all one these justifie us before God c. I have raised such a Dust about the word Justifie what it signifies almost every where in the Old and New Testament that never any Deist or Sceptick could have play'd the Game better not a Man that treated on this Argument did it before me I could tell you I could tell you Mr. Baxter meant the same thing tho' he then thought it not time a day to say it and therefore denied in his Five Disputations that the Charge of his Adversaries against his Aphorisms was true that according to his Doctrine Men were justified by their Repentance c. And I tell the World that which is true That my Book is one of the best Books that is on that Subject Mr. L. That is Baxterianism all over Like Master like Man But I pray Mr. Williams what say you to all this Mr. W. I am not to answer for every thing Mr. Baxter did tho' I believe he was mistaken in many things I pin not my Faith on his Sleeve he doubted Perseverance I do not he disown'd Presbytery I believe it to be of divine Right he asserts Non-resistance not I. For these two men I am sorry they assert downright Popery their Books are intolerable I have lately vindicated my Doctrine That man is justified by the Righteousness of Christ not in the Effects only but in se in it self against Mr. Humphreys I need not tell you Sir in what Book These men I doubt have given that wound to Mr. Baxter's Name and Reputation that will never be heal'd as deep a wound as did doth and will that Unhappy Book Vindio Anti-Baxt Mr. L. I even adjure you Mr. Humphreys and Mr. Clark tell us plainly Do you believe in your Conscience that Mr. Williams is no Baxterian but one with me in Doctrine tho' not in Phrases Mr. H. Mr. C. Believe Sir we more than believe it he that call'd him in two Books a Semi-Baxterian might honour him in this thing beyond his desert And seeing you adjure me were it not too high an Expression I could almost protest by the sacred Name of Richard
coming to Christ no Sin not Vnbelief Some say Men must receive Christ by a hand of Faith but I say They may receive Christ without a hand passively I disown the word Hand or Instrument in Justification There is a passive receiving of Christ against a man's will as we pour Physick down the Throat of a Patient p. 98. I said also p. 102 When Christ is said to bind up the broken in Spirit it is of those that are undone not of those that are sensible of being so as a man may be broken in his Estate or Credit tho' not sensible of it Mr. A. Was there ever such a sensless Perverter of Scripture I doubt thy Head was early broken if thy Heart was never so Is this to be broken or wounded in Spirit p. 106. Dr. C. Of general tenders read much In 127 I there make sport with mens Complaints I say O what a noise is here I must have a broken Heart mortification c. And p. 114 I bewail it that the Servants of God should lose the Name of Libertines And p. 170 I said God sâ—es no Sins in his own never punisheth for them and p. 198 God is not such a Changling and p. 202 If thou be a common Swearer or Blasphemer come if there be no alteration in thee come if thou be as sinful as thy skin can hold come 16 Ezek. I cite again and again and again c. v. 6 When cast in the open field when in thy blood I said to thee live This was a time of love I made a covenant with thee and thou becamest mine Mr. L. For that Scripture can you deny that the primary intention of it is to shew the state of the Jewish Nation Ver. 3 Thy Father was a Amorite thy Mother a Hittite Abraham and Sarah could not be such strictly but like as 1 Isa 10 Hear you Rulers of Sodom give ear ye People of Gomorrah Jerusalem was so call'd because like them in manners and life 13 Ver. of the 16. of Ezek. After they multiplied and God put Ornaments on them it is said they prosper'd into a Kingdom Read the 15 Verse he chargeth these with playing the Harlot committing Fornication 17. That they made Images with these Jewels not Graces sure 21 Thou hast made my Children pass through the fire 20. Thou remembredst not the days of thy youth when thou wast polluted in thy blood 29 Wo unto thee saith the Lord God they committed Fornication with the Egyptians and in the Land of Canaan 26 29 O Harlot hear the word of the Lord. Is there Sir any falling from Grace 60 61 Shews God would bring them again out of Babylon and humble them Yet all this is well accommodated by Divines spiritually but Parabola non sunt Argumentativa nisi ratione scopi is a common known Rule Dr. C. What say you to the 15th of John Mr. L. 15 John 4. If you abide in me the Branch abides in the Vine 5th 6th 7th Verses speak of Abiding not Vniting Dr. C. What say you to Isaiah I am found of them that sought me not Isaiah 65 1 are plain words are they not Mr. L. That makes nothing to your purpose I said Behold me behold me to a People not call'd by my Name they had no Helps to seek But I pray what specifick difference is there between the Eccho or Belief of a man who believes his Sins laid on Christ that proves vile still and his that doth not so What is the matter that in all your wordy Book you do not according to all men distinguish as becomes a Scholar or a Man Dr. C. You know the reason well enough without my telling would you have me like a young Conjurer to raise a Spirit I could not alay A Dr. in Oxford once distinguish'd in the Hall Aliquo modo est aliquo modo non I do like a Moderator I knew in that University who when the Question was An Omne Ens potefl apprehendi carried in the affirmative one brought a shrewd Argument against it he answer'd Nos disputamus non de iis Entibus quae non possunt apprehendi sed quae possunt apprehendi I often expound 11 Heb. 1 Faith is the evidence of things not seen that is that they were pardon'd and justified before they believed in the heighth of all their wickedness Alas they were nothing that expounded on this Text till I gave the true sense I gave the World the first light of those words see whether you can find Mr. Pool that great man to think of it I have also said in about fourteen or fifteen Sermons on this Text On him hath God laid the Iniquity of us all p. 160 177 170 It was the Iniquity it self laid on Christ so that it cannot be found in the Conscience of the elect to sting there they are not our Sins but Christ's actually so I over and over observe it is not God doth lay or will lay but hath laid in the Preterperfect Tense and therefore God laid them on him from Eternity Mr. L. You might as well say Christ was actually crucified from Eternity it is said in the same Chapter He was a man of sorrows not is or shall be He was lead as a Lamb before the Shearers not is or shall be He was numbred amoug Transgressors not is or shall be Dr. C. I tell them p. 18 They should not make God so childish as some do p. 195 I said If God were not separated from Christ Christ told an untruth when he said my God my God why hast thou forsaken me No Sin can be charged on that man to whom the Lord gives a heart to belieue his Iniquities are laid on Christ P. 196 That it is a lying Spirit that says Sin can waste the Conscience of a Believer I tell them That by their Graces and Prayers they throw Dirt in the Face of God and spit Poyson there even the best Saints and the Wise man saith They are an Abomination to the Lord. Mr. A. You are a Child and worse with Reverence be it spoken Solomon says thus of the Prayers of the wicked but of the righteous that they are his delight Dr. C. I carefully distinguish once p. 358 our Sins were laid on Christ by way of Obligation from Eternity 2. By way of Execution 3. By way of Application I told them Christ stood as very a Sinner in Gods Eye as a Reprobate That our Sins were laid on Christ's Back is my common Phrase That his Back was large enough and broad enough to bear all our Transgressions God wore out the Rod of Vengeance even to the very stumps on Christ The washing 16 Ezek. 9 was the washing of Justification not Sanctification Sin stares men in the Face and spits Fire in them before they come to Christ P. 517 p. 543 We must not think God so humoursome and so peevish We tell God That he lyes to his Face if we tell Believers that if
holy walkings by reason of our sins and sighing up unto Christ for help are by the power of God's Imputation so clothed with the Wedding-garment of Christ 's own perfect Righteousness that of unjust we are made just before God that is all our sins are utterly abolish'd out of God's sight and we are made from all spot of sin perfectly holy and righteous in the sight of God freely Mr. L. We are well satisfied you need say no more you are not in the number of those Hereticks we now censure I hope you drove not at this That men should never have any sadness for sin c. Mr. E. I should be glad Gentlemen of your good company at another time Mr. W. And we of yours Mr. Eaton Mr. L. Dr. Crisp what say you to all this Dr. C. One thing I am sure I shall not want Followers for all this for if all Wise men leave me there are Fools enough to follow me ay Preachers too a D. and J. are to be found in all places Mr. A. I will not say pares cum paribus Dr. C. Stop I tell you you will never give over your Buffoonry It was a great trouble of mind to your Brother Hugh Peters as he tells us in his honest Legacy to his Daughter where he saith I wish I had not been vain in a vain World And tho' he says Not three men ever dealt with him in a serious way about it you cannot say so It is said of some when they are in the Pulpit It is pity they should ever come out others That when they are out it is pity they should ever come in you Sir however are accounted a good man that is to say in a Pulpit Mr. A. I cannot endure to be reflected on for being good only in a Pulpit by them that are not good out of it nor there neither Did I ever play in the Pulpit as you on your own confessions and others know much worse H. Peters play'd with Divinity it self too often tho' I have reason to hope he was a good man I only with a D. of Divinity that is to say he with holy things I with prophane However I remember what good Moniea got by a chiding word of an angry Gossip Aug. Confes Mr. L. A little of this is too much We even beseech you Dr. Crisp Answer us plainly to a few Questions the Company desire it Dr. C. Gentlemen I will seeing you ask me so civilly only I desire you to keep that Alsop quiet it it be possible Nr. L. I pray of what Communion or Party were you Dr. C. Had I thought that had been one of the Questions I would not have make you such a Promisse for not one to a hundred of my Ignoramus's know I tell you of the Church of England and so was Mr. Toune who glories in his Book that he was no Separatist and Mr. Eaton was of the same Party and yet most think I was some great Dissenter a kind of Independent Mr. L. Must the Independents have your Bastardly Brats and Heretical Doctrines laid at their Doors All such Weeds grow in your Church Socinianism Arminianism Antinomianism Deism and what not and yet the Independents forsooth must be charged with your mad Notions Some of your Followers will not confess Sin nor beg Pardon was this your Practice Dr. C. No how could I when clothed with a Surplice under a black Gown as an Emblem of the Justification of an unchanged unsanctified Sinner and when the Common-prayer-book was in my hand how could I read the Confession what without Confession the Absolution the Litany or other good Prayers of the Church Mr. L. Then you made Confession of Sin politickly if not conscientiously thank your fat Benefice your Tyth-corn and Tyth-pigs that hung in your Teeth I wonder the Letany had not choak'd you and other Prayers Can you say nothing for your Followers contrary Practice Dr. C. Yes yes for if all Sins past present and to come be at once forgiven which I call in my Book the Doctrine of all Protestants they say what need then of Confession and begging pardon Mr. L. And yet you have said That all sins were forgiven from Eternity is this Protestanism Let the Proposition of all Sins pardoned together tho it seems hard to say a Sin is actually pardoned before it is actually committed let it be how it will yet such a wild consequence can never follow Dr. C. Some good Christians and Exalters of Christ alone are satisfied to pray for manifestative pardon so it be done seldom and sparingly tho some of the Godly be not so Mr. L. David was assur'd of Pardon from God by Nathan when he was humbled and confessed have sinn'd The Lord hath pardon'd thy sin saith Nathan Yet after all this David perm'd this Psalm of Psalms the Penitential Psalm and 1. prays blot out my iniquity 2. sorrows my sin is ever before me 3. confesseth agairst thee thee only have I sinn'd Besides Christ taught them to whom God was a Father to pray daily Forgive us our Trespasses What Trespasses all or some if some which I say all Job was an upright man and yet says Thou writest bitter things against me and mak'st me possess the sins of my Youth Judgments came on the Land for the Sins of Manassah which the Lord as is said would not pardon yet he was then in Heaven I hope you mistake me not consider the Text and my Design Gods Command is sufficient and he will this way make us to keep up the sense of sin our desert of damnation and wrath his infinite goodness to pardon c. But to pass to another thing you talkt so much of purity of Doctrine how came it to pass you minded no more purity of Discipline in that Church You read Prayers of other mens making you added an additional Humane Sacrament to one of Divine appointment the Cross in Baptism is not the Cross made a Tessara or Symbol or Livery as well as Baptism by which you dedicated Children to a dying Saviour Dr. C. You know Mr. L. I am no distinguisher but yet I have heard some men distinguish between an immediate and proper and an improper and declarative Dedication I hate your Discipline as much as did the old Puritans my Doctrine Mr. L. Would you not think it Sawciness or worse for a Subject to prescribe what badges or marks of subjection or office such and such should wear who were thus to be order'd by the King Dr. C. May not the Church appoint sacred Rights as well as the Primitive Christians their Love-Feasts Mr. L. I might invite all my Communicants to Dinner after the Lords Supper and all but a civil custom if in some Parishes Dr. C. But the Use of the Cross is ancient Mr. L. Not in Baptism Why use you it not often as the Papist do if so useful spit on the Child put a Taper in his hand as they do and give Significations
Baxter that it is true Seeing you have him beware of him for he hath one unpardonable Fanlt we cannot forgive him for neither I doubt will you Mr. L. What is that I pray Mr. H. He hath too much Wit for one man Mr. L. Now I will speak roundly Honest Mr. Williams I am in a rapture or transport with joy let you and I have a Friendly Debate for I doubt we have been mistaken in one-another and these Gentlemens Opinions of us both true and right I know you are afraid of Crispianism or Antinomianism as well you may a filthy poysonous abominable Weed and I have written against it for which they revile me as they do you and the Apologist I have been much afraid of Arminianism and Socinianism now grown to a great heighth This might make us not so well to understand one-another as else we might Mr. A. A Friendly Debate Gentleman that is a word out of joint and is an unlucky Omen you will talk but little Sence or Truth A Friendly Debate the Phrase is grown odious since Patrick thirty years since wrote his Friendly Debate wherein the friendly Con tells the Noncon He was no good Subject and therefore no good Christian for living in a Corporation or within Five miles of it contrary to Law He brings in the Noncon as a Fool I pray Sir explain your meaning I am not skill'd in definitions And when the Question was whether our white Caps under our black ones might justifie Laun sleeves the Answer is Any thing becomes a good Man On goes Jack to prove the Bishops good men his Comparison of the Gentleman 's praying in the morning at nine of the Clock in the Parlour requiring his Servants to come then and there not in a Stable with clean Clothes Faces and Hands not all dirty was as much to the purpose about Symbolical Ceremonies of human appointment as his Story of the Cupboard of Plate God had and would return to it but it must be well beaten first and that was when the King must pack up and be gone Who I pray sent their King packing since Gentlemen I shall for this reason protest against a Friendly Debate but should be glad to hear a Friendly Conference between you Mr. H. I could wish Mr. Baxter alive were it proper to wish the greatest Saint that ever went to Heaven here on Earth again to see what his reputed Advocate but real Adversary said to take the Chair since his death hath said and written Mr. L. If these men judge right what have I done to be so tenacious of a Phrase Commutation of Persons and so to raise such a Dust to trouble Bishop Stillingfleet and D. Edwards famous Men my Friends as I thought by their Books but your Friends as I find by their Letters And many say our late Controversie is one of the most fruitless ones that ever was brought on the Stage A Story of matter of Fact and a Phrase and my Friends as well as Adversaries say That by my Rashness all is in a flame for tho' we long since lost our Vnion yet our Peace continued but now that is gone too Mr. W. I doubt I have been mistaken too in some things seeing you confess your mistakes I do mine So true is that Incidit in Syllam You ran so fast from the Tents of the Socinians that you might come in some Phrases too nigh the Tents of the Crispians and I ran so fast and far from the Tents of the Crispians that I might err as I am sure you did Mr. L. Who is this that comes towards us with so much Rage and Fury Mr. W. It is Dr. Crisp Mr. A. No that cannot be for I remember that of old they pictur'd him like an old Hermit and had I been a Manichean I should have spent time to consider who made him This looks more comely sure it is not he Mr. W. Why Sir you must know his Son hath been so troubled about it to see his Father pictur'd as if with Cain his maker had set a mark on him that he hath play'd the Barber himself like a kind Son to make his Father look better or if you will less ugly and hath clapt a few tolerable Sermons to make the intolerable Sermons go down the better Dr. C. Have I found you O my two Enemies that have written against my Doctrine You Old-Testament-Daniel and you New-Testament-Stephen some say that as the Old and New Testament make one Bible so you two are one in the main I say as that Heretick Humphreys you two are one in Doctrine tho' you differ in Phrases You are both corrupt tho' I say it on a different account You both deny Justification without Faith and make Gods Covenant a Bargain c. Mr. L. You will find Gentlemen this man cannot express himself he had need get one to do it for him Dr. C. What! do you make me such a Dunce that am a Doctor Mr. A. I have heard of a noted Doctor Head of a House in Oxon in the Interregnum famous for advising young Students never to go into the Water till they first learnt to swim c. That once telling a Story how the Proctor alwaies at night seeing a Candle in his Study said That man will be a Doctor or a Dunce his Servant replied In good truth Master you are both I apply not the Story before a D. in D. Dr. C. Will you deny that there are any good things in my Book Mr. L. In what Book are there not some good things Your Book may therefore be called good as some Philosophers call an Ethiopian white not simpliciter but secundum quid about the Teeth Dr. C. You Mr. L. are neither for Mr. Baxter nor me but have written against us both When some say If he be not in the right I must be so if not I he must be so Mr. L. I have heard of a Captain in our Civil Wars who meeting with a poor man on the Highway asked him who he was for for the Kings Souldiers or the Parliaments and promised him if he spoke his mind no harm should come to him Then Master said the poor man I am for both How so said the Captain Why said he for the hanging of both sorts for Master said he we cannot keep a little Bacon in the House but one comes one time and another at another time till all be gone So say I we cannot keep a little Protestant Doctrine in the Church one pulls one way another another way till all be gone Yet I wisht well to Mr. Baxter's Person and so to yours but to neither of your Doctrine Dr. C. See how Daniel Williams that pure Stick sits there like a Sheep-stealer he hath nothing to say I think my Disciples have done his Work for him and told the World of his lewd Life Mr. A. He hath said so much to you already that he hath done enough for one man and need say no