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book_n	call_v	name_n	place_n	2,269	5	4.1426	3	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A95750	A nevv discovery of old pontificall practises for the maintenance of the prelates authority and hierarchy. Evinced by their tyranicall persecution of that reverend, learned, pious, and worthy minister in Jesus Christ, Mr. John Udall, in the raigne of Queene Elizabeth. To give satisfaction to all those that blindely endeavour to uphold episcopall government, that their lordly rule in the purest times of the said queene, is the very same with that they have exercised ever since, even to these times. Together with the prelates devises to make him submit, and to subscribe to submissions of their own contriving and invention. And also King James his letter out of Scotland to the queene, in the behalfe of Mr. Vdall and all other persecuted ministers in her realme.	Udall, John, 1560?-1592.; James I, King of England, 1566-1625.	1643 (1643)	Wing U14; Thomason E87_6; ESTC R212794	52,416	53

to the Iury why they must find him guilty saying The evidences are manifest for the first point that he is the Author of the Booke and the second is a point in Law agreed upon by all the Iudges as I have said So the Iury after they had heard the evidences of the other Felons at the Bar departed to consult about them in which time of their consultation there came two severall messages exhorting him to submit himselfe and to yeeld unto the Iudges before the Iury had given up their verdict unto whom Mr. Vdall replyed willing them not to trouble him with any such matter for he was cleare in his conscience and therefore he was not to accuse himselfe In which time also the Iury diverse times sent and received messages from the Iudges and at the last the fore-man of the Iury went himselfe unto them Thus having debated of the evidences of the rest of the Felons with Mr. Vdall after the Iudges had dined the Iury brought in their verdict that he was guilty of Felony After that Baron Clarke had finished all other matters of Law and that the Iuries had given their verdicts on the Felons finding some guilty and some not guilty The Iudge commanded all the prisoners to stand forth and to answere to their names which did so and first mr Vdall was called who stood forth at the Bar but the Iudge commanded him for that time to stand aside saying that he would deale with him anon then some of the prisoners which were saved by their bookes were burnt in their hands and for that night there was nothing more don Then the Iudge commanding the Iay●or to bring the prisoners betimes in the morning commanded them to depart and so for that time every man departed to his place The second dayes worke being the 25. of Iuly THe next morning neere about 4 of the clock the prisoners were brought to the Bar who stayed till the comming of the Iudges who came thither by 6 of the clock or thereabouts and called the prisoners by their names to receive sentence of death and first they began with mr. Vdall who after he was called was commanded to stand aside till anon and then there were 7 Felons that received sentence of death who being taken aside Mr. Vdall was called the second time and the Clarke of the Assises said Iohn Vdall hold up thy ●a●d what canst thou alleadge for thy self why thou shouldst not receive judgment to dy Vda My Lords notwithstanding my earnest pleading and protesting of mine innocency yesterday which I could and would have done more cleerely but that I was so much interrupted yet it hath pleased the Iury upon their consciences to finde me guiltie of that which I thank God never entred into my heart now therefore must I pleade another plea and therefore I crave of your Lordships to grant me the benefit of the pardon granted the last Parliament Iud. I thinke you can have no benefit by it for I am deceived if it be not excepted Then said he to the Cleark or some other reach me the Statute Booke and whilest hee looked in the same Vda Mr. Vdall said I pray your Lordships consider the ground of my plea albeit indeed it seeme to be excepted your Lordships confessed yesterday and I shewed it by my Lord Andersons speeches to me that it was not thought Felony till of late and therefore the things that be excepted be such as be inquirable and punishable in the Ecclesiasticall Courts Jud. That is nothing for if the lesser be excepted much rather is the greater Vda My Lords I refer it to your consciences and favourable considerations the words are these in the pardon which he repeated and they finding it to be as he had said the Judge said here is no helpe for you and after other speeches betweene them of the meaning of the words of the pardon the Judge said Mr. Vdall your Councell hath deceived you Vda My Lords I have not received any Councell herein for I have bin close prisoner this halfe yeare and therefore could not attaine to have any Councell but thus much have I gathered which is my judgement out of the Booke Jud. What can you alleadge more for your selfe for this helpeth you not Vda Nothing but mine own Innocency but that your Lordships may proceed Iud. What say you are you contented to submit your selfe to the Queene Vda Yea or else I were not worthy to live in her Highnesse Dominions Iud. But will you acknowledge your selfe to have offended her Majesty in making this Booke she is gracious and full of mercy it may be that we reporting your submisi●n unto her Majesty may procure her pardon for you Vda May it please your Lordships to heare me The cause for which I am called in question I cannot forsake in any sort for I hold it to be the undoubted truth of God but c And then he was interrupted by Iudge Puckering who said Iud. Nay stay there you cannot goe away with that speech unanswered to buz into the peoples eares such a conceit that it is an undoubted truth that you hold for I hold it to be an undoubted falshood And then he proceeded further in a large set Speech the effect whereof was that this Land having bin governed by sundry Nations hath yet kept her ancient Laws which he affirmed would be overthrowne if this government that these men seeke for should be established And then he further shewed what inconventences as he thought would come by the same viz. That we having Laws and Iudges appointed to decide all Controversies this Presbitery which these men seeke for would overthrow all and bring to their censure and government all mens Causes or else they would Excommunicate them from their Churches yea and they are so hot for this Government that they will not stay for the Magistrate and if the Magistrate will not they will reforme themselves and one of them writing in a Letter to his friend of his saith Let us number our hot Brethren that we may know who will stand to it for it is high time So that it is plaine that if they cannot have it with her Majesties consent they will have it though it make our hearts to ake as you say in your booke And whereas her Majesty hath Revenues belonging to her Crown out of the Church-livings and Cathedrall Churches these men would have her Majesty give unto them those Revenues for the maintenance of their Preshitery and they would her a s●ipend allow at their discretions so that they would bring the Queene and the Crowne under their g●rdles And some of these men have gon so farre that they say plainely we have no Church no Sacrament no ministers nor any worship of God amongst us If these things bee not loo●'t unto in time what confusion shall wee have in this land shortly many other things be spake against the cause of Reformation which I cannot particularly lay

preparations thereunto Vda Let the Iury consider how that point is proved by it Besides it may be proved that this Boke was extant in mens hands before the conference betweene Chatfield and me therefore how can it be proved that this is the Booke that should give them such a blow Dault. But you cannot deny the second point that you had a pretenced malice for it is extant in your own confession Read his answer to those Articles of Mr. Chatfield Then the Clarke read his answer to this effect tha● if the Bishops put him to silence they would give him occasion and leasure to be imployed in writing against them Then said Mr. Daulton is not this most evident what can be plainer then it is Vda I pray your Lordships to give me leave to explaine these things Iud. Say on and be briefe Vda Mr. Chatfield told me that he was commanded to come to Kingst●n and be resident there of purpose that I might be put to silence and that there might not appeare any want of a preacher I being put downe Whereupon I said in effect as is above rehearsed but I pray you heare in what sence these words were uttered Iud. The matter is cleare and we see what you can say to it well enough proceed Mr. Daulton to the proofe of the second point Dault. And that you be the Author of this slanderous and infamous libell it shall be proved cleerely to the Iury before your face then said he to the Clerke read the answer of Ni●holas Thompkins which was made upon his oath before her Majesties High Commissioners Then was read to this effect that Thompkins knew that Mr. Udall was the Author of that Booke called the Demonstration for he said that Mr. Udall himselfe told him so Also that he saw either in mr. Udalls house or in some other place in Kingst●ne a Catalogue of all the Bookes that Mr. Udall had made amongst which the Demonstration was one Daul You see here that this is cleare and a sufficient testimony Vda It carryeth some shew but it is nothing Iud. Doe you c●ll the testimony of one being an honest man and upon his Oath before the High Commissioners to be nothing can you answer it Vda My Lords I answer it thus denying it to be his testimony for if it be why is he not present to verifie it face to f●ce according to the Law Iud. Puck It is verified to be his true Answer under the hon●s of Dr. Auberie and Dr. Lewen the latter wher●of c●nfirmed it before me upon his corporall Oath Dault. You can take no exceptions against that and will you say he is not an honest man Vda I am perswaded he was amazed and answered he knew not what for hee hath reported it so diversely that it seemeth ●ee remembreth not what hee said Iud. But the Oath of Thompkins is to be preferred before his bare rep●●t Ude My Lords I answer I protest unto you and will verifie it upon my Oath if it please you that he told me the day before I was committed at his Masters house that he could not say neither would he for a tho●sand pounds affirme any more then this t●a● he heard me say I would not doubt but set my name to that Booke if I might have indifferent Iudges And further if it please you my Lords here are some witnesses that upon their Oaths will testifie how diversly he hath reported of his confession to this thing if it please your Lordships to accept them And the witnesses offering themselves to be heard were answered that because their witnesse was against the Queenes Majesty they could not be heard And after other Speeches passing Mr. Udall said Uda My Lords the speech of the Catalogue is most vaine and hath no sence in it for can I have made so many Bookes as that I need make a Catalogue of t●em It may be my Lords he saw a Catalogue of the Bookes in my Study wherin if that were one it is ●ather an argume●t that I made it not for men use not to put their own works in the Catalogue of those that they have in their Study Daul You of the Iury consider this that Thompkins was Mrs. Cranes man and one that was privy to all the Printing that was at her House and M● Udall used to go often thither Uda All that is nothing to me what if I used to goe thither she is of my acquaintance I know her to be an honest Gentle woman what can you gather by any of these things why is not Thompkins here to d●clare his testimony and to say what he can Daul He is beyond the Seas about merchandises sent away by Mr. Gore who married Mrs. Cranes daughter Vda How doth that appeare he is no merchant but a serving-man and if he were what is that to me but it cannot be proved that Mr. Gore did send him so that here is nothing but bare papers to shew for evidence against me Then there was much said to prove that the testimony of a man absent was sufficient if it were proved to be his upon the oathes of others And then the judge said Iudg. VVhat say you did you make the booke Vdall yea or no what say you to it w●ll you be sworne will you take your oath that you made it not wee will offer you that favour whi●h never any indited of felony had before take your oath and sweare you did it not and it shall suffice Vda My Lords I pray you heare me to this if I would have done so before the Lords of Her Majesties Privie Counsell that committed mee I had not come hither but I neither then might nor may do so now whereof I pray you let me shew a reason to the Iury I and many more doe think the booke to be good for any thing wee can find in it and to be written in defence of a cause which we take to be most true Now the Author is sought for that he may be punished for some speeches that may be wrested in the booke therefore least he should be found if one after another that are suspected doe deny it it is thought best every one neither to confesse nor to deny yea though we suffer some punishment rather then the author being found out should suffer extremity Iudg. Nay this is but a shift I will goe further with you will you but say upon your honestie that you made it not and you shall see what shall be said unto you Vda My Lords it is all one I make a conscience of my word as of my oath for I must give accompt for both This is no direct course in this place Iudg. You of the Iury consider this This argueth that if he were not guilty he would cleare hims●lfe and consider well of it And then speaking to Mr. Vdall hee said doe not stand in it but confesse it and submit your selfe to the Queens mercy before the Iury find you guilty

Chamberlaine in the name of the whole councell Whereupon I came thence December●9 1589. in the forest weather that could bee yet through Gods mercy I and Christopher Applebie whom the Major appointed to conduct me came safe to London Ianuary 9 and upon the 13. being Tuesday I appeared at my Lo. Cobhams house in the Blackfryers before my L. Cobham my Lo. Buckhurst my L. Anderson the Bish. of Rochester Mr. Fort●scue Mr. Egerton the Queens solicitor Doctor Aubery Doct. Lewen Then was I called in before them whereupon my Lord Anderson said unto me Anderson How long have you bin a●Newcastle Vdall About a yeere if it please your Lordship Anderson Why went you from Kingston upon Thames Vdall Because I was silenced there and was called to Newcastle Rochester What calling had you thither Vdall The people made meanes to my Lord of Huntingdon who sent mee thither Roch. Had you the allowance of the Bishop of that Diocesse Vdall There was none at that time Roch. Then you should have gone to the Archbishop Vdall There was no Archbishop at Yorke neither Anders You are called hither to answer concerning certaine books which are thoug●t to be of your making Vda If it be for any of Martins bookes according as my Lord Chamberlaines letters that fetched me import I have already answered and am ready so to doe againe Ander Where have you answered and in what manner Vda At Lambeth a yeere and a halfe agoe I cleared my selfe not to bee the author nor to know who he was Ander Is this true Mr. Beadle Beadle I have heard that their was such a thing but I was not there at it if it please your Lordship Aubery Lewen There was such a thing as my Lords Grace told us Vda I am the hardlier dealt withall to bee fetched up so farre at this time of the yeere I have had a journey I would not wish unto my enemy Roch. You may thanke your owne dealing in matters that you should not have medled withall Ander It is more then I heard that ever you were called to answer but you are to answer concerning other bookes Vda I hope your Lordships will not urge mee to any others seeing I was sent for about those Ander You must answer to others also what say you to those Bookes A Demonstration or a Dialogue c. did you not make them Vda I cannot answer thereunto Ander Why would you cleere your selfe of Martin and not of these but that you are guilty herein Vda Not so my Lord I have reason to answer in the one but not in the other Ander I pray you let us heare what reason for I cannot conceive of it seeing they are all written concerning one matter V. This is the matter my Lo I hold the matter propos'd in them al to be one but I would not be thought to handle it in that manner which the former Bookes doe and because I thinke otherwise of the latter I care not though they should be fathered upon mee Buckhu But I pray you tell me know you not Penry Vda Yes my Lord that I doe Buckhu And doe you not know him to be Martin Vda No surely neither doe I thinke him to be Martin Buck What is your Reason Vda This my Lord when first it came out he understanding that some gave out that he was thought to bee the author wrote a letter to a friend in London wherein he did deny it with such tearmes as declare him to bee ignorant and cleere in it Buck Where is that letter Vda Indeed I cannot now shew you for I have forgotten unto whom it was written Buck You will not tell where it is Vda Why my Lord it tendeth to the clearing of one and the accusing of none Buck Can you tell where Penry is Vda No surely my Lord Buck When did you see him Vda About a quarter of a yeere ago Buck Where ●id you see him Vda He called at my doore and saluted mee Buck Nay he remained belike with you Vda No indeed he neither came in my house neither did hee so much as drinke with mee Buck How came you acquainted with him Vda I thinke at Cambridge but I have beene often in his Company Buck Where Vda At divers places and namely in mine owne house whilest I dwelt at Kingston Buck What cause had you to be so often in his company Vda He being a Scholler Student in Divinity and one whom I alwaies thought to be an honest man your Lordship may easily conceive he cause Here was much to this same effect spoken about Mr. Penry and my being at Mrs. Cranes house at Moulsley and with her c. which I alwaies answered as in the like case concerning M. Horton of Richmond before the Archbishop Then Doctor Lewen reading my answers to those questions that had beene by the Archbishop propounded unto me concerning my papers in my study and namely the notes of my severall conferences with the Bishops and their Officer I was asked as I remember by Mr. Fortescue Fortescue Why did you pen such things and keepe them Roch. Because he and such like might apisbly imitate the Mart●rs of former times and accompt themselves persecuted by us as those were by the Popish Bishops Vda The cause is this for that in the quicknesse of wit and readinesse of memory in youth those things may be spoken that in age will be more easily made use of in writing then otherwise the memory of man not being infinite Ander What say you did you make these bookes or know you who made them Vda I cannot answer to that question my Lord Ander You had as good say you were the author Vda That will not follow but if you thinke so I cannot do withall Cobha Mr. Vdall if you be not the author say so and if you be confesse it you may find favour Vdall My Lord I thinke the author for any thing I know did well and I know that he is enquired after to be punished therefore I think it my duty to hinder the finding of him out which I cannot do better then thuss Ander And why so I pray you Vda Because if every one that is suspected do deny it the author at the length must needs be found out Ander Why dare you not confesse it if you be the author of it dare you not stand to your owne doings Vda I professed before that I lik'd of the bookes and the matter handled in them but whether I made them or no I will not answer neither of any other book of that argument whatsoever goeth without name if you should aske me for the reason alleadged before besides that if I were the author I thinke that by Law I need not answer Ander That is true if it concerned the losse of your life Vda I pray your Lordship doth not the Law say generally No man shall be put to answer without pres●ntment before Iustices or things of record or by due processe or

Majesties people you should have taught your selfe not to have rayled upon the Rulers of the people for do you not know what is written in the 23. of Exodus Thou shalt not raile upon the Ruler of the people for whosoever doth so shall die the death And do you not know what is written in the 23 of the Acts where the Apostle Paul being before the High Priest called him a painted wall and being smitten by one of the high Priests Servants it was said unto him revilest thou the Lords high Priest to which Paul answered I knew not Brethren that he was the high Priest loe thus did he acknowledge his fault do you know these things Sirra Vda My Lord you know that we hold it not lawfull for a Minister to be a Civill Magistrate and there are at least 500. in this Land amongst whom I am the most unworthy that are of the same judgement in this point Jud. But how if the Queene doth give it them Vda They ought not to take it And my Lord if it please you I will answere to your proofes though I came not hither to dispute But in my answering my purpose is not to give any liberty to any man to raile upon any that are in Authority Now to your proofes I say my Lords that the place out of the 32 Exod. doth rather concerne your Lordships and such as are under her Majestie for Judges then any way to concerne the Bishops And touching the second place out of the 23 of the Acts where the Apostle saith Brethren I wist not that it was the high Priest the meaning of that place is as if he should say I thought there had not bin any high Priest now seeing Christ being come the high Priesthood was to cease so that the Apostle doth not acknowledge any fault in that his Speech for there was no lawfull high Priest of that time neither did he acknowledge any seeing they did end in Christ And thus do the best Divines expound the place Then after some further Speeches of this exposition the Judge returned to the matter of the Booke againe saying that the booke did concerne the State and sayd Iud. But Sirrah thou canst not so excuse thy selfe as though it touched not the Qu. and the State for is it not written in thy Booke that this saying will not serve their turnes the Queene and Councell will have it so whereby it is plaine that thou didst speake against the Queene and the State Vda My Lord the Author only meaneth this that when we are called before the Bishops they were often driven to use this argument when they had nothing else to say for themselves that they could be content many things were amended but it must be so for the Queene and Councell will have it so And surely herein me thinks they slander her Highnesse and we tell them that however they beare it out here before men yet before God that excuse will not serve their turne Iud. Thou canst not carry it away so dost thou not plain●ly say that they are not safe though they have humane Authority on their side but he that is on our side is mightier then they whereby thou both abasest her Majesty and also dost threaten them with some force and vi●lence Vda It is true that whosoever doth unjustly is not safe in it though all the Princes in the world should desend him in it and that is the meaning of the Author But to say that force and violence is threatned them is furthest doubtlesse from his meaning for it is knowne to all the world that we desire by all good meanes to commend this holy cause of Reformation to her Majesty and the State and do not looke for neither that ever it should by any force prevaile but that it would please God to honour her Highnesse with the advancement of the same Jud. No no these are but excuses these malicious Speeches proceeded from thee and were the ground-worke of all these Lihells that have bin dispersed since and thou art known to be the ring-leader of this faction Vda There is no reason to charge me with other mens doings every man must answer for himselfe but as for me alas I am no body there are five hundred Ministers in this land of my judgement in these things the meanest of which I acknowledge to be far better learned then I am But by the way my Lords I pray your Lordships give me leave to say one thing which I being about to speake of before was interrupted and therefore seeing now it commeth into my memory I pray you to heare me though it be out of time concerning the Felony whereof I am accused it maketh greatly for me Iud. What is it let us heare what you can say Vda When I was before the Lords of her Majesties Councell at the time of my Commitment amongst other things that I alleadged against the taking of an oath to accuse my selfe I said that the thing was accounted criminall and therefore by law I was not to answer my Lord Anderson said that I said true if the case had concerned either the losse of life or limb whereby it is manifest that then my case was not esteemed Felony Iud. Though the Iudges had not then concluded it yet it was Law before or else it could not so be determined after the violent course of others since hath caused your case to be more narowly sifted Then the Iudge having spoken to the like effect also said to the Iury that they should not need to trouble themselves to find him guilty of the Felony but onely it was sufficient if they found him guilty to be the Author of the Booke for quoth he it is already determined by all the Iudges of the ●●●d that the Author of that booke was in the compasse of the Statute of ●●●●ny and this quoth he was concluded before we came hither therefore you being ignorant of the Law and we being sworne as well as you are you are ●o heare us and to take our exposition of the law and after many other speeches the Iudges said goe thy way we will heare thee no longer get thee hence and shaking his hand hee called for the other Felons to heare their Causes Iury. Then the Iury said what can we finde Iud. Find him Author of the Booke and leave the Felony to us And after some other Speeches Mr. Fuller said to the Iury you are to finde him Author of the Booke and also guilty of a malicious intent in making it whereat Mr. Daulton said what have you to do with the matter Mr. Fuller to speake to the Iury Then there being some noyse at the Bar Mr. Vdall could not any more be heard yet as he was ready to depart hee said to the Iury you of the Iury consider this that you have not to consult about the life of a Seminary and Popish Priest but of a minister of the Gospell Then Iudge Clarke shewed the reasons

downe but this is in effect the substance of it concluding he said Thus much Mr. Vdall have your speeches enforced me to speake least the people here present being deceived should be carried away by it To which Mr. Vdall answered briefly Vda My Lords it is bootelesse for me to enter disputation with you in this place touching this matter onely this I could wish you to leave it to be first decided by the learned Divines to whose calling it belongeth And although some weak men wan●ing iudgement have bin headily carryed in seeking the furtherance of this cause and so for want of this government have runne into some errors yet it is no reason to charge us with them for your Lordships know that wee have been the men that have taken the greatest paines to reclaime them to the joyning of themselves with the Church from which they have separated themselves Iudg. Clar. You are deceived it is not a matter of Divinity onely but it is a matter of State and within the compasse of our Profession and it is not so greatly in controversie as you would have us to beleeve it is Vd. It is diversly debated my Lords and the greatest number of learned men in Christendome doe maintaine the same Iudg. How doe you know that have you bin beyond the Seas to know the greatest number of learned men to be of this judgement Vdall Your Lordships know that all the Churches of France the low Countries and of Scotland doe maintaine the same besides many hundreds of learned men in this land Iudg. Have you been in all these Churches that you can tell so much Vda I know it to be true my Lords for their practise doth shew them to be of this judgement Iu. Well if you can alleadg no more neither will submit your self to the Queens mercy then heare your judgement Vda My lords I was beginning to speake but you interrupted me I pray you heare me what I will say and then do as God shall move you Iud. Let us heare what you will say Vda As I said before so I say now I beleeve the cause to be the undoubted truth of God and therefore in the matter I cannot by any meanes yeeld yet seeing by your order of law I am found to be guilty neither can I for the reverence I beare to her majesties lawes take any exceptions against you nor the Iury but that which you have done I acknowledge to bee done in all equity and right Seeing I say you have found me to bee guilty whereby I cannot live without h●r majesties gracious and speciall favour I acknowledge that whatsoever I have done to the advancement of the cause I may offend in the manner in which respect if I have offended seeing it hath pleased your Lordships and the Iury to find mee guilty I doe willingly submit my selfe and heartily crave her majesties pardon Iud. But are you sorry that you have offended the Queenes Majesty Vda I am sorry that the course of the Law hath found me to have offended Iudg. So is every Thiefe that is c●ndemned sorry that his offence is found out but not for the fact This is a plaine fallacy Vda My Lord indeed if it were so as your Lordship doth understand it it were a plaine fallacy but I say further if in the manner of handling so good a cause there be found in me any offence against her Majesties Lawes And I acknowledge that in the manner of handling it Her Majestie may be justly offended for which I am sorry And I protest that I have never gone about to advance it by any other meanes then by manifesting it to all men and tendering it to them in authority and that by such meanes as might not be contrary to the Laws of this Land that so it might be received by Her Majesty and the State and this is the care of us all howsoever we be charged with factions Iud. You say if there ●e found any offence whereby you call in question the equity of dealing in this Court against you Vda My Lords I do not neither will I let it be looked into by you and the rest whom it concerneth I hope you would not deale otherwise then lawfully against me Iud. Puck You say you seeke no unlawfull meanes what can be meant but unlawfull meanes in the words of your Booke If it come in by that meanes that will make all your hearts to ake blame your selves What good meanes ca● bee meant by th●se word● Vdall My Lords yesterday I shewed you what I tooke to bee the meaning of the Author in some places of the booke alleadged against me in the Inditement and then I would have spoken unto all but you cut me off I pray you therefore let me shew you the meaning of the Author in those words now Iudg. Let us heare you how you expound it Vda My Lords your Lordships must understand that the Author taketh it for graunted that the cause is Gods and must prevaile and therefore seeing God hath used all the meanes of his mercy to bring it in in giving us a gracious Prince ●ong peace and aboundance and of stirring up some to exhibite s●●plications to the Parliament these things not prevailing in his mercy he will bring 〈…〉 some judgement as plague or famine or some such like 〈…〉 his is alwaies the manner of Gods dealing 〈…〉 〈…〉 expound it so for the words import another thing 〈…〉 〈…〉 the Author himselfe expoundeth it so in the words follow 〈…〉 saith that it must prevaile for such a judgment will overtake this Land 〈…〉 eares of all that heare thereof to tingle so that he meaneth nothing 〈…〉 God will bring it in by his owne hand by judgment if by mercy hee can 〈…〉 Iud. No no your meaning was that it should be brought in by force and violence Vda God forbid farre be it from us to conceive any such Imagination The Author of that booke doth plainely shew that hee meant no such thing and the words following in the end of the Epistle doe declare the same for there he sheweth by whom it is to be brought in namely by Her Majesty and her Honourable Counsellors that they may see it and establish the same Iudg. Nay the meaning is that if the Queene will not yet you say it shall come in for so the words are that it must prevaile maugre the heads of all that stand against it Vda Nay my Lords the words are maugre the malice of all that stand against it for there are many heads that are not maliciously bent against it there is great difference betweene malice and ●eads for some are against the cause through ignorance Iud. It is all one in effect Vda Nay my Lords there is great difference Iud. Puck Well Mr. Vdall you were best to submit your selfe to the Queenes mercy and leave these courses for I tell you that your Booke is most seditio●s and slanderous against her Majestie and the

but is now sorry for it Puck You should have alleadged this before it is now too late Vda It is alleadged too late to prevent the verdict but if there be any force in it it ought to be considered to stay the sentence I could alleadge it no sooner because I knew it not till after the verdict Puck We may not suffer you to proceed so to disgrace that which is passed already If you have any other thing to say speake on otherwise we must do our office Vda It is not my meaning howsoever you take it to disgrace any thing passed hertofore onely I pray you further to consider that Thompkins whose testimony onely carried some shew protested before my commitment that he would not for all the world affirme me to be the Author of the Booke Puck Why did you not pleade these things to the Iury Vda I did so and offered to produce sufficient proofe for it but your Lordships answered that no witnesses might be heard in my behalfe seeing it was against the Queene which seemeth strange to me for methinks it should be for the Queene to heare al things on both sides especially when the life of any of her Subjects is in question Puck The witnesses were then thought by the Iury sufficient to prove the matter which we may not now call in doubt therefore say on if you have any more Vda Then I spake according to the eight reason whereupon it was said Clar. I tell you you are not called into question for the cause as you call it nor for the body of the Booke but only for slanderous things in the Preface against her Majesties government and therefore you may let the cause alone Vda But it is for the hatred borne to the cause that I am thus entreated for had not it bin handled in the Booke such matter as is now made of the Preface had never bin objected against me or any other Puck Well it is best for you to leave off all other pleas and submit your selfe to the Queenes Majesties mercy Vda I will do so with all my heart Puck But will you do it as you did the last Assises Vda Yea that I will And so I spake according to the last reason whereupon it was said Puck You confessed that you were justly condemned Vda I am not yet condemned Puck I meane convicted by the Iury then you acknowledged that you had offended her Majesty that you were sorry for it and promised that you would never do the like againe Vda My Lord it is not for me to oppose my word and credit which is nothing against yours I refer it to them that heard it onely I pray you give me leave to speake of it as I take it that it was First I did avow and so I do now and will do whilst I live that the cause handled in that Booke is an undoubted truth Clar. How often shall we bid you leave the cause and tell you that you are not troubled for it Vda But it is the cause that is sought to be defaced in my person and therfore I must and will still prof●sse it and justifie it wha●●●ver disgrace I receive by it unto my selfe I pray you let me proceed Secondly I did protest that I never had any purpose to deface but ever to seeke ●o honour her Majesty and her Government Thirdly I professed that the course of Law against me was due whereby what I have meant you have heard Fourthly I said that I never had any purpose to do any thing to the advancement of this cause but keeping my selfe to the uttermost of my power within the compasse of Law Lastly I never confessed my selfe to be Author of the Booke Then my submission was this that if I had don any thing to the advancement of so holy a cause which had brought me within compasse of the Law or might justly offend her Majesty I was hea●tily sorry for it if this be not it let me have any other drawn wherein the former points are justified and I will set my hand unto it Puck But all this is nothing to your Booke in particular what say you to it Vda I say this that though I hold the matter in it to be a most manifest truth yet I confesse the manner of handling in some part to be such as might justly provoke her Majesties indignation Puck Because you stand so much upon the cause as you call it you provoke me so as I must needs say somewhat of it lest the audience should thinke some matter in it more then is Vda My Lord you understand my judgement therein I beseech you speake not against it unlesse you will give me leave to replie unto you Puck I may not do so you pr●v●ke me to it your Discipline that you stand upon whereupon is it grounded forsooth upon the saying of Christ Tell the Church which never was expounded these 1500. yeares as you do within these few yeares Vda My Lord he did abuse you that told you so Chrysostome expoundeth it thus tell the Church that is the governors of the Church Puck He meant the Governors of the Iewish Synagogue Vda How can that be when he lived above 400. yeares after Christ Puck Was there never any that could finde it out before now if it were a truth Vda Yes it hath testimony sufficient if it might be received Puck And lest men should thinke that your matter were as good as you pretend I will tell you what I know It is written in one of your Bookes that without an Eldership there is no salvati●n Vda I am perswaded that cannot be shewed Puck Yes it is in Theses Martinianae one writ that i● is time to number our hot Brethren Another Mr. Snape of Northampton by name wrote that the Bishops should be p●t down all in one day These things he did discourse of at large in an invective speech most bitter ●ending to perswade the people that we meant to rebell and set up the Disc●pline and pull downe the Bishops by strong hand and went about to imp●ir● the Queenes Prerogative and patrimony After which with much adoe I got aud●ence to this effect Vda My Lord I protest in the presence of God and hearing of all this people that neither I nor any of my brethren that ever I was acquainted with to my knowledge did so much as ever purpose or speake of any such means as your Lordships mentioneth to bring in the discipline but onely by prayer to God supplication to her Majestie and such other peaceable meanes this is my answer to your large invective And whereas my Lord you seeme to bee so hardly carried against the cause I would not doubt but if I might privately conferre with you with the blessing of God to perswade you to be a friend unto it And after some other speeches of other bookes and the aforesaid speeches in the bookes mentioned already Judge Puckering said Puck Nay I tell you