of the Appendix shewing the continuall Visibility of the Catholike Church YOur owne Doctors in your owne house professed as you know The true Church must be able to name Professors in all Ages made it the very groūd of their Argument in that Dispute Wherefore in all reason before you went about to answere the Booke which you receaued of the Catalogue of our Professors you should haue giuen another or referred vs to some booke of an other of yours And that so much the more because hitherto such a Catalogue on your side hath byn held impossible to be found made or produced And hauing beene euermore demaunded and required for a hundred yeares togeather could neuer as yet be seene nor obtayned Certainly those your Champions which were chosen by your selfe and with great expectation vndertooke to doe it when they came to the Tryall performed nothing and all that they did was but cunningly to auoyde the Question giuen in these expresse termes Whether the Protestant Church was in all Ages visible especially in the Ages before Luther and whether the Names of such visible Protestants in all Ages can be shewed and proued out of good Authors Wherein euery man may see there was nothing els demaunded but a playne Catalogue or Table of the Names of your Professors in all Ages proued by good Authors According wherunto they receaued also another paper before the meeting which there was publickly read that ech partie should produce their Catalogues out of good Authors and then interchangably by termes defend them But this Table or Catalogue of the names of our Professors seemed a Lyon in the way of your Doctors which therefore they durst not come neere nor behold but sought by diuers straines to eschew it and to turne the eyes and eares of the audience from their expectation of it As first they sought to make two Questions of the Question propounded and flying the latter part insteed of shewing the visibility of their Church they would haue proued it à Priori as they tearmed it without shewing their visible Pastors which was the poynt demaunded Secondly they deride their Aduersaries for demaunding the Names of their Professors as if they had impertinently called for a Buttry Booke of the Names of those that euer were admitted into the Church of Christ irregiously comparing the Histories of the Church wherein the Names of her Bishops Martyrs and other holy Men were carefully recorded to Buttry Bookes of Names And for the same cause calling their Aduersaries Nominalls they boasted themselues to be Realls as if their Aduersaries had demaunded no Men but only Names of Men or as if the Professors of the true Faith like Knights Errants or those of the round Table had been no reall Men at all but only names which is asmuch to say as that the Hystories of the Church were meere fables Thirdly they sought to flinch by propounding sūdry tymes diuers other Questions to be disputed Which was as it were to put vp many Hares before the Hoūds thereby to conceale the Kennell of that Fox which was then hunted Fourthly they endeauoured to diuert the Question from prouing themselues the true Church by naming the visible Professors therof in all Ages which was the thing demaunded to proue the same by assuming they held the truth that is to say in euery particular Controuersie as for Example in denying of Transubstantiation Merits of Works and the like Which was as plaine a Transition as if in case the Question had byn about Transubstantiation their Aduersaries should haue gone about to proue it by prouing themselues to be the true Church that held it For both these kinde of proofes by a remote Medium do euidently transferre the Question the one from a generall to a particular point which was your Doctors fault the other from a particuler to a generall as in the other Example Fiftly being called vpon by the Hearers and especially by the Protestants themselues which were ten to one and confided much in their owne cause to giue the Names of their Professors in all Ages they named only Christ and his Apostles with others one or two more of the first Age alone Which according to the question vndertaken they should haue proued to be Protetestāts by naming Protestants that succeeded them in all Ages following but seeking euermore to auoyde that Rocke they would haue stayed there and before they went any further vrged to proue the Professors of the first Age to be Protestants not by naming their Successors but by examining their Doctrine Which againe had been to diuerte from the matter and to runne from the generall point then in Question to all particular Controuersies Sixtly Therefore when none of these deuises could satisfy the expectation of the Hearers fearing as it seemed least according to the words of the Question and playne intention of that meeting they should haue byn vrged againe by the Hearers to set downe a full Catalogue of all Ages as once before they were importuned to doe they suddenly brake off and so departed Seauenthly My L. of Warwicke imagining perchāce that this proceeded not so much from lacke of ability as from want of due preparation on their behalfe promised a Catalogue within 2. or 3. dayes which though sought agayne by letter neuer yet appeared Eightly The Answerers themselues repayred the next day to your owne house agayne offering to deliuer their Catalogue with one hand so they might receaue yours with the other Which another stāding by whome they also tooke to be a Protestant Minister affirmed to be very reasonable and indifferent But you answered You knew their minde for that point and that they would neuer doe it before the Names of the first Age were tryed and so of the rest in order Ninthly a printed Catalogue was sent to your selfe in particuler hoping it might serue as an engine to importune and as it were to extort another from you or from your Doctours But all in vayne which maketh many much to feare that this Catalogue of your Professors will neuer be produced and consequently that your Church cannot possible be the true Church of Christ And now no maruell if some of the Hearers when they saw the Booke of The Fisher catched in his owne Net writen as it were in triumph of your victory in that Dispute compared it to those other Puritan Bookes which haue been lately printed of the great victories of the Protestants in their Warres against the Catholiks beyond the Seas whereas in truth not the Catholikes but the Protestants themselues haue beene alwayes notoriously vanquished and ouerthrowne And presuming it came forth from his owne fingers that hath the principall part therin they spare not to say that it better deserued to be called The feates and lyes of Doctor Feat-Lye then the other Title which in falshood well agreeing with the Booke it selfe in that respect alone might iustly seeme a fit lace or facing for it For besides the sundry shifts
A Defence of the Appendix OR A REPLY TO CERTAINE AVTHORITIES alleaged in Answere to a Catalogue of Catholike Professors called An Appendix to the Antidote VVHEREIN Also the Booke fondly intituled The Fisher catched in his owne Net is censured And the sleights of D. Featly and D. VVhite in shifting off the Catalogue of their owne Professors which they vndertooke to shew are plainly discouered By L. D. To the R t. VVorshipfull Syr Humphry Lynde Eccles 7. v. 30. Solummodo hoc inueni quod fecerit Deus hominem rectum Et ipse se infinitis miscuerit quaestionibus Permissu Superiorum M.DC.XXIIII TO THE RIGHT VVORSHIPFVLL Syr Humphry Lynde SYR It may be you will take it vnkindly to see vnawares your selfe and your papers thus in print But I was moued to doe it by due cōsideration of that which followeth I receaued them not as secret neyther do I thinke you gaue them to be concealed You wrote against a printed Catalogue of Catholike Professors wherof a deare friend of mine is the Author giuen you vpon a former Conference which your self procured betweene some other of my Friends and your Doctors concerning a Protestant Catalogue which Conference though priuatly intēded was afterwards victoriously printed Wherefore writing them as you did against such a Booke and vpon such an occasion you might easily thinke they would be answered and it is not strāge they should come to be printed As the great opinion which others had of your deepe learning and your owne profession of your great skill and reading in the Fathers made me diligently to peruse those authorityes alleadged by you so hauing well examined them I thought my selfe diuers wayes obliged to giue a large full Reply vnto them And being as you are most extremely and most vehemētly distant in opinion from me no maruell if to be better vnderstood I speak so lowd that all the Land may heare me And for the same cause you must pardon me if I rather choose to expose both you my selfe to the iudgment of others then hauing takē some little paynes in this matter to make you the only iudge of my labours The old Maister Buggs being carried away with Ecce in Penetralibus thinketh to haue found the Messias in your study and was wholy transported with those chosen places and selected authorities contayned in your papers which tending to no lesse then the losse of his soule merited great compassion the like may happen to others which deserueth preuention Your owne Doctors haue already adorned the Pageant of their victory with the publication of your Names Vnto you is giuen the driuing on of the Chariot and the old Maister Buggs is led in Triumph Some perchance haue been taken in the net of the Title and may be freed againe by the net of Christ which therefore should not hange in the Riuers of priuate papers when the other flyeth in the ayre but should be cast into the Sea of the wide World to gather and draw togeather all kind of fishes In this net the Fishers themselues are happily taken and all they that are not taken are lost for euer The other of the Heretikes is but a net to catch flyes which though cūningly wrought must in tyme be swept away togeather with the Spiders They haue printed against vs and renewed an old Decree against our printing if no Reply should be made some of them would thinke that now they might lye by Proclamation What greater signe of falshood thē hauing told your owne tale to seeke to stop the mouthes of your Aduersaries with old Statutes But the State neuer intended to make a Law against God his Word will not be tyed All Princes should serue it and all printing Presses must be subiect vnto it Therfore no maruell if the taking of one Presse do set two more on worke and that your Doctors by seeking to suppresse the Truth do presse it forward You know then what moued me to diuulge your papers giuing the Fathers their due I haue told you your owne but sparingly and if you knew my hart you would see and confesse that I had done it friendly Belieue and you shall vnderstande Belieue the Fathers and you shall vnderstand the Fathers He that heareth not the visible vniuersall Church is no better then a Heathen and belieueth neyther Church nor Fathers but the vnlearned not knowing the doctrine of the Church and the vnstable forsaking that which they haue knowne as they peruerte the Scriptures so also they preuert the Fathers to their owne damnation from the which I beseech God deliuer you praying you likewise to thinke no otherwise of me then as of Your vnfaygned Friend and seruant in Christ L. D. THE AVTHORITIES ALLEADGED BY Syr Humphry Lynde agaynst the Appendix Of Myracles EPIPHANIVS conuinceth not Ebion of false beliefe because neyther he nor any of his faction had the gift of working Miracles but because Ebion lykened himselfe to Christ for his Circumcision and for his Birth and he answers him he could not be lyke to God for that he was but a mortall Man and was not able to rayse Lazarus out of the graue nor heale the sicke c. If he would be lykened to Christ he bid him to doe those things the which things if he had required at Epiphanius hands I thinke noe man but would haue doubted of the performance of them Read the place at large and you shall find it hath no such meaning as is heere alleadged Myracles were necessary before the world belieued to induce it to belieue and he that seeketh to be confirmed by wōders now is to be wondred at most of all himself in refusing to belieue what all the world belieueth besides himselfe De Ciuit. Dei lib. 22. cap. 8. in principio Shewed to be falsified Now we for our parts say not that we must be belieued that we are in the Church of Christ because Optatus or Ambrose hath commended this wherein we are or els because that in all places of the world where our Communiō is frequēted there are so many Myracles wrought of healing diseases c. For all these things that are done in the Catholike Church are approued in asmuch as they are done in the Catholike And not that it is therfore Catholike because such things are done there August de vnitat Eccles cap. 16. Tertullian They will say sayth he to excuse themselues for hauing followed Heresy that their Doctours haue confirmed the Fayth of their Doctrine that they haue raysed vp the dead restored the sicke foretould things to come so as they were worthily taken for Apostles As if sayth he this were not written that many should come working great Myracles to fortify the deceitfullnes of their corrupt preaching De Praescrip cap. 44. S. Hierome The Galathians had the gift of Healing and of Prophesy and yet they were insnared by the false Prophets and it is to be obserued that powers and signes are seene to be wrought in those that
occasion to admire the little conscience of your late English Doctors in challenging the Fathers of the first fiue hundred yeares wherein if their Aduersaries might come to an indifferent and equall tryall with them the very Titles of the Fathers Books against them were sufficient to ouerthrow them Only in this place I will giue the Reader this short Notandum for the which if he desire sincerely to know and belieue the Doctrine of the Fathers he shall haue cause to thanke me When any of the holy Fathers do censure any poynt of Doctrine taxing it of Heresy or noteth it as the particuler opinion of some Heretike or reproueth it very much or wondreth at it especially if it be such a thing as euery learned Man may easily know or was necessary to be taught and that no other Father did therein oppose himself against him It is an euident Testimony that his Doctrine therein was the generall Doctrine of the Church at that tyme and ought to be so receaued of the Ages that follow Wherefore the Author of that Booke hauing shewed so many poynts of your Doctrine to haue beene so notoriously cēsured and condemned by the Auncient Fathers of the first fiue hundred yeares in the Hetetikes of those tymes besides many other poynts and some of those also condemned by Fathers and Councells in after Ages whereunto you haue not answered a word it is for ought I can see or perceaue a cleare demonstration that the Fathers of those tymes were theirs and that eyther your Professors were none at all or no other then those that were condemned by them Thus all things with them are infallibly certaine easie to be knowne and most conspicuous They follow the streame and current of that Doctrine which by many knowne Successions of holy and learned Men Martyres and Bishops as it were by so many Channells they deriue from Christ and his Apostles They follow the fame and greatnes of that Church which by conuerting Countries and Nations in all Ages is become eminent and apparent aboue all other sortes of Christians like a Citty vpon a Hill aboue the Moale-hills or like the Little Stone in Daniel which growing to be a Mountaine filleth the world with it's greatnes They follow the security of those Letters-Patents which the hand of God hath signed with his owne Seale and cōmended to the world by Attestation of many Myracles in confirmation of their Doctrine And lastly they follow the infallible and powerfull Authority of that Body which by Cēsures of Doctors Decrees of Coūcells from tyme to tyme hath euer confounded all those that opposed themselues against it While you in the meane tyme without any lineall Descente from those whome you pretend to haue beene your Auncestors without the Progenie of any Gentills conuerted by you without any warrant of Gods hand or sentence of his Iudges for you do still remayne in the darcknes of your inuisible Church tossed in the Sea of Error with euery winde of new Doctrine not knowing certainly whome to follow nor what to belieue vntill at the last euen the wisest of you being wearie of seeking and desperate of finding that which they seeke come to hold all opinions probable which is in effect to belieue nothing Good Syr had you produced such a Successiō such cōuersions of Nations such Myracles and Censures in the defence of your Church as that Booke hath shewed in confirmation of theirs all zealous Protestants had been bound to haue fallen at your feete and to haue honoured you for euer But now on the other side against such weighty and massie matters such cleare and conuincing proofes as these not being able to giue in euidence so much as one Professor in euery Age nor in any Age the conuersion of any Nation or the testimony of any Myracle or the Censure of any one Father in fauour of your Religion who seeth not that insteed of reason there is nothing but passion on your part and certainly for the honour of your cause it were better to hold your peace then reply so weakely in a matter of such importance For besides all that hath beene sayd against many other most expresse Sentences of the Auncient Fathers in those very poynts which you haue chosen to touch you haue only produced a few dribling Authorities as it were on the Bye some falsely translated and some falsely cited and some in respect of other expresse words agaynst you plainely falsified that not to accuse you of a bad Conscience though you make profession to be much versed in the Fathers yet the Reader must needes think you neuer saw or read so much as those few places which your selfe haue cited but only tooke them by retaile frō others And howsoeuer though they were admitted and taken as you giue them vp yet in my poore opinion they eyther touch not your Aduersaries at all or being a little considered make rather with them then against them Which sheweth great want of iudgment in you and I verily thinke if you will be pleased to examine them with me I shall make you see it Wherefore as in the former Section soe that you may know in this also how far you are chargable I giue you the summe of your accompt in this manner The Doctrine of that Church which was condemned by the Fathers of the first fiue hundred yeares was condemned by Christ and his Apostles But the Doctrine of the Protestant Church was condemned by the Fathers of the first 500. yeares as the most and best learned Protestants themselues haue also confessed Ergo the Doctrine of the Protestant Church was likewise condemned by Christ and his Apostles Section V. Myracles defended to be a sufficient Testimony of Truth and the Doctrine of the Fathers therein declared WHerefore to begin as you doe with Myracles most certaine it is that no true Myracle can be wrought but only by him Qui facit mirabilia magna solus and therefore whēsoeuer any true Myracle is shewed or sufficiently testified vnto vs in confirmation of any point of Doctrine it is an euident proofe of the truth thereof For a Myracle in that case is the Testimony of God who speaketh by workes as men by wordes sayth S. Aug. Epist 49. quaest 6. and is the subscription as it were of his hand and seale vnto it And certainly if Myracles were no sufficiēt proofes of true Doctrine they would neuer haue beene called Signes and Testimonyes in holy Scripture God would not haue giuen Moyses power of working Myracles Exod. 4. That the People of Israel might belieue he had appeared vnto him Our Sauiour would not haue sayd the Iewes had not sinned in not receauing him if he had not done those workes which no man els had done before him Ioan. 15. And in vayne should he haue promised that Signes should follow those that belieued and haue cooperated and confirmed the Doctrine of the Apostles by them Neyther could he in Iustice haue commaunded the world
seeketh to be confirmed by wonders now is himselfe to be wondred at in refusing to belieue that which all the world or the visible Catholike Church through the world belieueth which being well considered maketh little for you In that very place I say you could not choose but read these other words directly against you That now also Myracles are wrought in his Name eyther by his Sacraments or by the prayers and memories of his Saints togeather with the relation of many Myracles done in his owne tyme and of those in particuler wrought by the Reliques of S. Stephen which though not necessary after the World had once belieued as S. Austen there disputeth yet God in his mercy hath euer shewed them in all Ages as well to confound the obstinate that would not belieue the visible vniuersall Church as also to confirme those in their Fayth that already belieued In this place therefore you haue plainely falsified the sense of the Author eyther very fraudulently or very ignorantly choose you whether Section VI. Merits of VVorkes defended according to the Doctrine of the Fathers and Syr Humphry answered IN the next place against the Merit of Workes you obiect many places of the Fathers but none to the purpose You know full well that the Catholikes distinguish betweene works that goe before Faith workes that follow Workes going before Faith and proceeding only from the light of Nature or from the knowledge of the law of Moyses called therefore by S. Paul Rom. 3. The workes of the Law your Aduersaries doe all hold neyther to saue nor to be needfull to saluatio according whereunto S. Paule also saith That a Man is iustified by Faith without the workes of the Law But that workes following a liuely Faith formed with Charity and proceeding from it doe iustifie and are needfull to saluation your Aduersary proueth not only by expresse Scripture Iames cap. 2. Yee see then how that of workes a man is iustified and not of Faith only But also by the lyke Testimonies of all the holy Fathers noting and condemning the contrary opinion of the Protestants as hereticall in Symon Magus in the Gnostickes and in Eunomius as hath beene shewed And further he alleadgeth S. Aug. de fide oper cap. 14. testifiyng of the Apostles themselues that because this opinion of Faith only sprung vp in those dayes by peruerting the words of S. Paules Epistle before related the Epistles of S. Peter S. Iohn S. Iames and S. Iude were principally written vt vehementer astruant vehemently to vrge and contest that Fayth without workes doth profit nothing Agaynst all which manifest proofes you bring only some Authorityes of the Fathers shewing that our owne workes and righteousnes as Basil hom de Humil. or workes of the Law going before Fayth as S. Chrysos with S. Paul Hom. 7. in 3. ad Rom. and before Sinne pardoned as S. Ambrose and forgiuen as Theodoret comment 2. S. Bernard in Cant. Ser. 22. doe not iustifie but only Fayth without them which is nothing to the purpose because therein your Aduersary agreeth with you But you bring not a word to proue that workes following Faith doe not iustify nor are needfull to Saluation which opinion of yours your Aduersary hath shewed to haue beene often tymes condemned by the Apostles themselues by the Auncient Fathers in other Heretikes that haue gone before you Section VII Free-will defended and Syr Humphry answered IN the Controuersy of Free-will you seeme first to suppose your Aduersaries belieue that Man hath Free-will to performe supernaturall actes and workes of Pietie without Grace and then you proceed to dispute against them How can you imagine they are so absurd as to thinke by the power of Nature alone to doe that which they thēseues confesse to be aboue the power of Nature wherin there appeareth not only a great deale of passion in you which hanges lyke to a Cloud betweene the Eye of your minde and the light of truth but also as it seemeth great want of conscience For you know they hold that without grace it is impossible eyther to belieue or to do any other acte which may auayle or so much as dispose to Saluation This also you know to be the Doctrine of Bellarmine euery where in that whole Booke out of which you seeme to cite his words in a contrary sense and the words that immediatly follow in the very place you cite do plainely shew that against your Cōscience you falsify his meaning His words are these A Man before all grace hath Free-will not only to naturall and morall workes but also to workes of piety and supernaturall as you faythfully cite them but then it followeth Thus S. Augustine teacheth l. de Spiritu litera cap. 33. where he sayth That Free-will is a naturall and middle power which may be inclined to fayth and infidelity Thus Bellarmine whereby it is manifest his meaning to be that by Grace Free-will is not made or giuen vnto vs but that we haue the power thereof by Nature which afterward by Grace is inclyned and strengthned to doe those things which by the force of Nature without Grace we are not able so much as to will or to thinke much lesse to performe or perfect according whereunto in the same place he citeth also S. August de Praedest Sanctorum cap. 5. teaching that the Posse or power to haue Fayth and Charity is in man by Nature And in the same Booke cap. 11. he alleageth S. Augustine againe Epist 49. quaest 2. to the same purpose saying Free-will is not taken away because it is holpen by Grace but because it is holpen therefore it is not taken away If it be giuen by Nature and not taken away by Grace most certaine it is that still we haue it In this sense therefore your Aduersaries not only affirming that we haue Freewill by Nature but also teaching that it is so excited and strengthned by Grace as we cannot so much as thinke much lesse accomplish or performe any supernaturall acte without it they would easily graunt with S. Basil con de Hum. that we owe all euen that we liue to the Grace and gift of God but that you falsely translate it They graunt with S. Bernard de Gratia lib. Arbit That to will Good is a gift of Grace And with S. Augustine That it is God who maketh that we worke by adding to our will most efficacious strength That vnlesse he make vs willing and then worke with vs we shall neuer bring to passe any good worke And againe with S. Augustine de correp grat cap. 1. That though we haue Free-will to doe good yet none can be free in will and acte to do it that is to say perfectly or in actu secundo as the Scholmen speake vnlesse he be freed by the grace of God And againe That all is to be giuen to God not the first part vnto our selues the rest vnto God as the Pelagians
indeed were horible and would profit nothing but we eate the flesh of Christ as it is liuing flesh vegetated with his Spirit which is Christ himselfe entirely as he is now in Heauen Tract 27. in Ioan. 63 That no man eateth that Flesh before he adore it in Psalm 93. That the rich men of this World cōming to the Table of Christ do receaue his Body and Bloud which though they adore yet are not filled with it because they doe not imitate it eating him that is poore but contemning pouerty Epist. 120. ad Honoratum That the Apostles did eate the Bread which was their Lord Panem Dominum though Iudas did eate but the Bread of our Lord Panem Domini Tract 59. in Ioan. For our Sauiour was not truly his Lord because Iudas was not truly his seruant And if at the day of Iudgement he should say Domine Domine our Lord would answere I know thee not Protestants may well say with Iudas that they eate the Bread of our Lord if our Lord did ordaine it to be a figure of his Body but they cannot say with the Apostles that they eate the Bread which is their Lord because they deny it to be their Lords Body That Iudas Iscariot receaued That sayth he which the faythfull know the price of our Redemption Epist. 162. ad Glor. That our Sauiour did literally beare himselfe in his owne hands whē he gaue it Conc. 1. in Psalm 33. That Bishops and Presbiters in the Church of Christ are properly Priests de Ciuit Dei lib. 20. cap. 10. Which doth infer that properly also there are Priests and Sacrifices that Christian Priests doe properly offer Sacrifice vpon Altars Wherefore making often mention of MASSE Serm. 91. de Tempore Serm. 251. he sayth likewise that our Sauiour changed the Sacrifice according to the order of Aaron and did institute a Sacrifice of his owne Body and Bloud according to the order of Melchisedech in Psalm 32. in Psalm 39. lib. 17. de Ciuit Dei cap. 20. That he prayed God to giue him contrition a foūtaine of teares when he assisted at the holy Altar to offer that marueilous heauenly Sacrifice which Christ the immaculate Priest did institute and commaund to be offered in Manuali That a Priest of his offered the Sacrifice of the Body of Christ in a house infested with wicked spirits which was thereby freed lib. 22. de Ciu. Dei cap. 8. That he desired all Priests whome he called his Bretheren and his Maisters who should read his Booke of Confessions to remember his Mother at the Altar where the also desired to be remembred after her death lib 9. Confess cap. 13. That it is not to be doubted the dead are holpen thereby because the vniuersall Church receauing it from the Fathers obserued that it should be offered for those who departed this life in the communion of Christs Body Serm. 32. de verbis Apostoli He reckoneth it amongst the Heresies of Aerius that he denyed Oblations and Prayers for the Dead Haer. 53. Could any Catholike at this day or Bellarmine himselfe if he were now aliue more fully declare his owne Doctrine in this point of the Reall Presence and of the Sacrifice of the Masse then doth S. Augustine against you though in other things you may retaine some difficulties yet in this me thinkes you should freely acknowledge that you are wholy conuinced Finally vpon Leuiticus quaest 57. in the very place which your selfe haue cited where there is nothing that may found for you but only that the figure is sometymes sayd to be the thing figured which as I take it is only in those cases where it is knowne and presupposed to be a figure he demaundeth why the people should be so much forbidden from the Bloud of the Sacrifice of the old Law when as none were forbidden to take for their nourishment the Bloud of this one Sacrifice which was signified by all the former but all that desired life were rather exhorted to drinke it Now therefore heereupon might not your Aduersaries deeply charge you that you had egregiously abused S. Augustine and plainely peruerted his meaning Section X. S. Ambrose falsly alleaged by Syr Humphry against the Reall Presence LEt vs now come to S. Ambrose who conuerted S. Augustine that we may see how the Maister the Scholler agree togeather he maketh mentiō of the MASSE and that himselfe sayd MASSE Epist ad Sororem Marcellinam He repeateth a great part of the Canon of the MASSE which is now vsed We offer vnto thee this immaculate Host this reasonable Host this vnbloody Host this holy Bread and Cup of life euerlasting c. And we pray thee to receaue this Oblation as thou didst vouchsafe to receaue the gifts of thy seruant Abel the iust and the Sacrifice of our great Father Abraham and that which the high Priest Melchisedech did offer vnto thee lib. 4. de Sacramentis cap. 6. He sayth We daily adore the Flesh of Christ in the Mysteries that is to say in the MASSE or Sacrifice lib. 3. de Spirit Sanct. cap. 12. He maketh his prayer vnto that Bread to heale his infirmity to come into his hart to clense both his flesh and his spirit from all that defileth in his prayer preparatory before Masse And in his Booke De Mysterijs init cap. 9. he obiecteth in this manner Perchance thou wilt say I see another thing how dost thou affirme vnto me that I receaue the Body of Christ Whereunto he answereth How many Examples haue we to proue it not to be that which Nature hath formed but that which Benediction hath consecrated And that Benediction is of greater power then Nature because by it euen Nature it selfe is changed And then declaring many Myracles wrought by Moyses Helias and Helizaeus he concludeth If human benediction were able to change Nature what shall we say of Diuine Consecration If the speach of Helias was able to bring Fyre from the Heauens Shall not the speach of Christ be able to change the formes of the Elements If the word of Christ were able to make of nothing that which was not can it not change the things that are into that which they were not For it is no lesse matter to giue new Natures vnto things then to change their Natures And a little after he sayth It is manifest that a Virgin brought forth agaynst the ordinary course of Nature and the Body which we Priests DOE MAKE is of the Virgin What dost thou require the order of Nature to be obserued in the Body of Christ who was borne of a Virgin against the order of Nature Could the Doctrine of Transubstantiation or change of Nature in the Sacrament be more auouched or better proued by any moderne Papist Who likewise lib. 6. de Sacram. cap. 1. thinketh it no blasphemy to say as he doth That as our Lord Iesus Christ is the true Sōne of God not as man by grace or by Fayth but
and slights of the Doctors contayned in it they accuse it also of many grosse vntruthes without end or number in relating things out of due place and order to their owne aduantage in daubing and amplifying the speeches of D. Featly with much addition and substraction of matter As for Example 1. That M. Bugges the old Gentleman who first desired the former Dispute was sicke and solicited in his sicknes by some Papists about him to forsake his Religion And that it was feared he would haue fallen from his Fayth if he had not recouered of his sicknes which is altogeather false 2. That he was much confirmed in his Religion by hearing the former Disputation which vnlesse he did extreamly forget himself hauing often sayd the contrary is also false 3. That you Syr Humfrey found M. Fisher by chance in Drurie Lane whereas you know you came of purpose to offer him a friendly Conference with D. White 4. That M. Fisher hauing written the Question added vnder his owne hand he would answere vpon it negatiuely As challenging and expecting Opposers which was false for he was first asked by your self whether he would oppose or answere wherupon he wrote he would answere 5. That you Syr Humfrey tould M. Buggs if M. Fisher would come with foure or six at the most they should be admitted for his sake whereas it was expressely agreed on that D. White and M. Fisher should only bring an Assistant foure Witnesses and a Writer and no more with each of them and that the matter should be kept secret thereby to make the meeting very priuate Which M. Fisher duly obserued but when he came he found the house full of Protestants contrary to former agreement 6. That D. White and D. Featly being inuited by you to Dinner and staying a while after Dinner had notice giuen them as it were by chance that some Iesuits were in the next roome ready to confer with them and that the Doctors were at last perswaded to haue some Conference with them As if forsooth they had neuer heard of the meeting before when the truth is that some daies before D. White had receaued the Question and vndertooke to oppose agaynst it though afterward for more security he vsed D. Featly for his Champion and both of them came thither of purpose to make good the former challenge 7. The Question was falsely and sophistically printed by putting into the midst therof the figure of 2 in fauour of the Opposer who sought to make it a dubble Question 8. Before the Disputation began D. Featly hauing propounded many other poynts of Controuersie to diuert the Question That M. Sweete should answere they were scholasticall poynts not fundamentall Which was not so only he affirmed they were nothing to the purpose Which he was moued the rather to say because a little before he had desired two things of the Auditorie 1. That all bitter speeches might be forborne And 2. that nothing might be heard or spoken which was beside the Question 9. That M. Fisher being charged to haue slaundred Doctor White in a former Conference answered nothing which is false for he stood vp and solemnely protested vpon his Conscience that he neuer slaundred him 10. And againe that being charged to answere vpon his Conscience whether he belieued Christ and his Apostles taught the Protestant faith he refused to answere Which is meerely false It is true that D. Featly before he began to dispute coniured M. Fisher after an insolent manner to answere according to his conscience which M. Fisher accepted and wished him to doe the like I omit many other such Feates which the Hearers when they read affirmed to be plaine Lyes from whome soeuer they proceeded If the Doctors according to their vndertaking had giuen a sufficient and full Catalogue of their Professors in all Ages The Fisher had beene taken indeed in his owne Net and caught in the Question which himself propounded but contrarily hauing taken more vpon them then they were able to performe and not being able to set downe the Catalogue which according to the issue of the Question was then expected the Doctors themselues were manifestly taken in the Net of the Fisher Wherein by professing as they did that The true Church must be able to Name Professors in all Ages they haue so intangled themselues that howsoeuer they may dance in this Net to their owne shame and confusion they can neuer get out vntill they name them And now to come home againe to your selfe endeauoring in the meane tyme as you doe to ouerthrow the succession of their Church and not being able to shew another of yours what do you get or what do you seeke therby but only the ruine and demolishment both of your Church and theirs leauing no true Church vpō the earth which cannot subsist without a visible succession of Professors to be named in all Ages as you and your Doctors haue vrged And by consequence for wāt of such a visible Church you leaue no true Fayth at all nor true Religion in the world And who is a Naturall but he that denyes it Wherefore to conclude this Section your Doctors with a great deale of noyse hauing filled the aire with nothing but smoke If now their Aduersaries should turne their owne Ordinance against them and reason thus it is not your valor that would be able to defend them The Church that is Catholike as it ought to be or the Church whose fayth is Eternall or the Church of Christ and his Apostles must be able to name Successors in all Ages But the Protestant Church is not able to name the Professors of their Fayth nor the Successors therein to Christ and his Apostles in all Ages Ergo the Protestant Church is not Catholike as it ought to be nor the Church whose Fayth is eternall nor the Church of Christ and his Apostles The Maior is their owne and publickly produced by thē The Minor cānot be denyed vntill the Names be shewed Wherefore vntill this Fort be built how can you defēd them or where will you hide them from the power of this Gun-shot And yet as this worke is plainly impossible to be raysed or performed so it is no lesse impossible that the Protestants should be found the true Church by Consequence that any may be saued remayning in it Section II. In reference to a second point of the Appendix shewing their Conuersions in all Ages HAD you giuen vs such another Catalogue of your Professors as you receaued of theirs to make your party good agaynst thē you should haue shewed the like Conuersions of Heathen Nations to the Fayth of Christ by your Ministers in all Ages as that Booke hath shewed by their Apostolicall Preachers And that especially after those tymes wherin you pretend their Church was fallen and the spirit of God was departed from them As for Example in the third Age were conuerted Donaldus King of Scotland his Wife Children and Nobility The Court of