now he beginneth to be knowen and by the great credit and admiration you haue him in the more detestable will he be reputed as a seducer of such men as cannot content themselues wiâ—h such trueth as the scriptures containe but must haue a Prophét raysed vp out of FlauÌ„ders a banished man and one that dare not shew his face in any countrey openly and you had rather imbrace his noueltyes then the wholsome doctrine conteyned in the olde and new testament Vitell. NOw concerning his bookes they be of such Aucthoritye as he affirmeth them but where as you say that he sayth all is false and lyes whatsoeuer is taught c. marke wel what he writeth and adde nothing thereto and it shall be found true what he writeth more where as you say he commendeth the Pope and Cardenalls with the Masse and other ceremonyes there is none commended but in their right order if you marke the matter well Answere HIs bookes I affirmed that they were in crâ—dite amongest the familye of equall auâ—horitye with the scriptures and that they were written with the same spirite to this you auÌ„swere that they are of such aucthoritye as he hath affirmed thereforâ— note well what you say for neuer any since the Apostles tunes had so impudent a face as openly to publish such a detestable lye if this come not from the spirite of pride I know no proud bosting spirites all the Fathers in the primitiue Church euer reuerenced the holy scripture and submitted all their bookes thereunto Austen desired not to be credited or beleued but as his workes might agree with the holy scriptures all men in generall haue euer acknowledged themselues in their writinges to be subiect to error onely the scripture to be without blemish but this man will haue HN. and his bookes of equall aucthoritye with the scriptures written with the same spirite thus doe you runne from one impietye to an other and in the highest degree of blasphemye But I pray you looke vpon the matter better before you say he is a prophet now his bookes are of equal aucthoritye with the scripture whether will you lift vp your HN. aboue all condition of fraile man the higher he is exalted the more greuous will be his fall without repentaunce it is Luciferian pride thus to attribute vnto mortall man but you make HN to be a name of office and not of a creature such misteryes requireth falced where trueth and simplicitye imbraceth playne dealing Now you say that HN. doth auouch all to be false whatsoeuer is taught by any other therefore heare his owne wordes and then discerne and sée God his trueth and his godly and heauenly workes are vnknowen vnto all fleshe and vnto all fleshly and earthly men but it is geuen to the children of the kingdome the comminaltye of the Loue to vnderstand the secret misteryes thereof You say it will be found true what he writeth If none but the comminaltye or Familye of Loue doe vnderstaÌ„d the scripture then it was not rightly vnderstode before there was any mention of your Familye Now for commendatioÌ„ of the Pope Cardinals and Masse he sayth hee commendeth none buâ— in his right order this speach is ambigâ—us in his right order For simply I thinke none of them haue any shaddow of right order neither is their callinges nor doctrine grounded vpon either right or good order Your Author belyke alloweth the Masse or els he would not haue taken such paynes as to explicat euery ceremonye therein in his booke called A declaratioÌ„ of the Masse but thus with subtiltye of speach you would faine say somewhat to defend your Author be his sayinges neuer so monstrous Vitell. FOr in that booke named a ioyfull message of the kingdome of God Christ though ye deâ—idingly call it his gospell is declared that â—Papa signifieth an olde Father in the holy vndeâ—standing Now althogh he be not indued with the holy vnderstaÌ„ding yet is the name not the worse in it selfe For the Lord hath ordeined gouernours spirituall and temporall and they represent the maiestye of God although now certayne gouernours gouerne not according to the rule of righteousnes yet is not therefore the name euerthelesâ—e of reputation because it is an ordenance of God therefore let vs despise no name that belongeth to gouernours neither yet also any gouernour nor any man els for we haue all sinned haue neede of the grace or mercy of the Lord. Answere THe booke in lattin is called EuaÌ„gelium Regnâ— gospell of the kingdome but this man is the translator thereof and hath qualified it calling it a ioyfull message of the kingdome the title is arrogant and presumptuous the doctrine therein worse as will appere in print ere it be long the pope hath found among manâ— enemies one freÌ„d although his doctrine is spokeÌ„ against euery where yet this maÌ„ would gladly képe and retayne his bare name belonging to a gouernour in office we coÌ„deme not the name his doctrine not agrâ—â—ing with the word is by the same word condemned so is yours For significations of names â–ª wâ—e will not contend a part of your deuinity lyeth therein neither do wee despise any name but is euell doctrine be shadowed or vnder any name cloked then wee inuey agaynst the doctrine vsing the name as wheÌ„ inuectiues are made agaynst the Pope or HN. it is not ment of the persons but of the doctrine And surely the Pope did neuer exercise so great a Popedome in the West Church as your HN. a new Pope doth among you of his Familye and as the papistes which tooth and nayle seeke to maintayne euery absurd and senceles part of the popes doctrine with all their power witte and skill EueÌ„ so do ye of his Family maintayne your Nâ— and whatsoeuer vnsauery doctrine he teacheth it maâ— not be discredited nor he cannot therein erre or misse the right in such reputation haue you placed mortall man. You say we all haue sinned haue need of y grace or mercy of the Lord y all haue sinned you truely confes but that all doe dayely sinne you cannot beleue especially you the â—â—ders of the holy vnderstandinâ— but in humilitye of spirite you and wee ought to coÌ„fesse not onely that we haue sinned but dayely and hourely do sinne and haue neede not onely of his grace but his mercy also although you speake of grace or mercy but wee craue his grace and mercy his grace to guide vs and his mercy to deliuer vs. Vitell. MOreouâ—r you are greatly offended because hee sayeth that none shold take iâ— haÌ„d to teach or preach but the illuminate elders whiâ—h arâ— Godded with God or incoâ—poâ—atâ—d to God and with whom also God in one being and power of his spirite is hominisied or become man And those you call proud speaches and because â—N vseth them ye despise him althoughe they be no strange words or speches in thâ— dutâ—h language â–ª therfore in so doing you despiâ—e the
you seeke to intrappe God his children to make them be partakers of your manifest impieties but the Lord will preserue his euermore Vitell. MOreouer wheras you writ the life of HN â–ª of his birth you writ mo lyes then truth therefore it appeareth you know not where he was borne neither was he euer at Mâ—ster as you sayd nor any man for him For he was euer against all rebellion and disorder of life and that can be tryed by his works and alo testified yet in Amsterdam for the Rulers permitted him to deale with those sectaries for to see if he could perswade them because they saw the Lord had geuen him wisdome and vnderstanding But euen as it chaunced to our Lord Iesus which was iudged to be a companyon of Publicans and sinners also a wine bibber and a drunkard Euen so do they say of his minister HN. all such things hath hee borne in the patience of Christ c. Answere IN wryting the life of HN. I haue done it by the tâ—stimony of his honest neighboures who knew hun better then you lâ—nger then you and before you knew him Their testimony wil stand for truth although for his crâ—dite sake you wil not beleue it and account it lyes I neuer sayd he was in Munster I affirme that he went about to ayd his brethreÌ„ in Munster as was supposed you say it appeareth by his works that he is against all rebelilion and disorder of life but how doth it appeare by you hiâ— Family to teacâ— a secret doctrine in corners against the law and stir vp the people to imbrace the same â–ª What wisdome and vnderstanding was geuen to him whereof you boast â–ª Little is shewed either in him or you He is a wise man that coÌ„tenteth himself with the simple truth taught in the scriptures anâ— seeketh not by strange deurses to pâ—blisâ— doctrine contrary thâ—runto Wâ—sdome is shewed in humilitie and not iâ— vâ—rne ostentatioâ— and boasting of the spiâ—ite of God and of secret reuelatiâ—â—s wher of your Author is full A wise man delyteth not in singularity neither thinketh speketh nor boasteth of any wisdome in him If God haue bestowed any excellent gifte in man let it appeare to his glory without ostentation â—ou make your compaâ—â—sons vnequall because Christ our Lord vntruely was accused to be a wine bibver a drunkard c. So likewise his minister HN. which he is content to beare in the patience of Christ. What patience is in your Author I know not but if we may discern the patience of the master by his schollâ—rs then I can testifie of many of â—our â—npatience What wordes and blasphemies you haue charged me with bâ— this your libell appeares and whâ—t taunts and vncomely speaches mired with manifest slaunder in your letters appeareth Besides what private letters and threates I haue receaued at your hands of the Family I coulde here declare but that you are so patient as you affirme your HN. is I finde it not The Lord geue vs all patience that in seeking his truth we may imitate his patience which sayd Learn of me c. Vitell. NOw you say he nameth Iohn Caluin Marten Luther the Papistes and the Anabaptistes to be 4. castels whiche is also false For there are no such names mencioned of in all his bookes neither is there anye such bookes of his therefore Adrian Gisling hath tolde you a lye and you haue fortefied iâ— Answere I Sayd in the displeing of the Family that one Adrian Gisling had read in a book called the glasse of righteousnes of 〈◊〉 Castells vnder the same mens names mencioned nowe this man is sure HN. neuer writ any such booke and therefore must needes be a lye I am credibly informed that HN. hath written 27 smale treatises and â—pistles and this man hath seene all as hee sayth but let the thing be true or false the matter is not great the party that told me is liuing and of honest credite and may as well be beleued as you I pray you are there no bookes called the glasse of righteousnes for he compiled ii of that title I neuer saw any of those bookes in deed but if there be no such then HN. hath mocked the Family for he still in his bookes referreth hys reader vnto the same booke called the glasse of righteousnes And in deede I doubt that book doth vtter more of your Aucthors secret doctrine then his smale paÌ„phlets Fewe or none in the Familye haue it that I coulde euer learne if you haue seene all the Authors works then you haue also seene that and you keepe it secret least your Family should not or could not well brooke the doctrine conteined in the same Let the booke be seene and keepe it not hidden it standeth you vpon nowe to let the worlde tast the doctrine which you haue affirmed Princes kingâ—omes afore this tyme should haue imbraced Vitell. MOreouer you sayd he maryed his daughter Mary to a younker that is true but not at EmdeÌ„ also you say that HN. abused a womaÌ„ that is a false report so to report of him for he neuer abused any woman neither taught he any other doctrine concerning the immortality but the doctrine of christ For Christ saiâ—h he that beleeueth in me though he were dead yet should he liue and who so liueth and beleeueth shal neuer dye neither was he accused to the Rulers for any such matter but he was complayned of by certayne enuiouâ— persoÌ„s which affirmed that he was one that taught a strange doctrine and thâ— Maiestrates gaue credite vnto the false witnesses thereupon sought for him and because they founde hym not they delt extreemely with his Family and caried away his goodes Aunswere THat his daughter Mary was maryed to a yonker you affirme Therefore not all are lyes which are by his neighbors reported of him as you sayd before why may not all the rest be true onely you speaking contrary some of these persons were at the mariages which haue testified their knowledge I thinke at that tyme you were not acquainted with HN. nor his doctrine and therefore your bare denyall is onely heresay but these are no great matters to stand vpon you confesse that he could not be found being sought for then was he fled before his accusation was for strange doctrine and not for a woman as you auouch But certeynly If the Magistrates should cary away his goodes â–ª for an accusation of strange doctrine then were they not indifferent neither can I be brought to credit your speach nor thinke so vnreuerently of any Magistrates but why sied he if he were not guilty of any crime In â—mden men know that many Religions had peaceable habitation without gaynsaying of the Magestrat If the spirite of God were so mighty in him as he sayth it is why did he not stay to render a reason of his doctrine before the Magestrate â–ª the perticulers being examined your simple denyall agaynst so many witnesses is
haue bent that poore skill and force I haue to displey these men with their doctrine There are many Right honorable that could better more learnedly haue confuted their doctrine but it is so vayne and childish that simple soules and meanely exersized in holy scripture are sufficiently instructed by the Lord to manifest all their abhommations The simplier sort of these men I take to be such as haue a desire to serue the Lord and yet is their simplicitye caryed away by the Elder sort or stronger men conference in my opinion is the best way to helpe the simple which the Elder sort can noâ— away withall least their trecheryes should be espied â—dad one of their writers geueth theÌ„ such a precept in his booke intituled a fruitfull exhortation to the Family of Loue in â— sextion But ye shall not contend or dispute with the blasphemers and the tanglers about the scripture nor with the apostates or decliners from vs and our good doctrine or with the selfe conceited wife nor yet with any of all those that bring in variaunce and make breach besides our good doctrine of the seruice of Loue. It appeareth Right honorable by this prohibition of this Elder that conference and disputation is forbidden them especially the Elder sort but the noâ—ces which are not enterid into the secret partes of their doctrine but are caryed away with a shew of pietye and good lyfe which at the beginning is opened vnto theÌ„ with fly and suttle perswasions that nothing els is sought at their handes but how the man might be made persite in Christ Iesu but after once a step be made towardes them or a tast of this doctrin then bookes are bestowed vpon them which they must reade of HN. as his exhortation his dialog his â—pistles the exposition of the Lordes prayer with the Articles c. as they profite in these bookes harder to digest as the Prophesie of the spirite of Loue a declaration of the Masse the holy Lambe the Gospel or â—uangâ—ly of HN. c. last of all the glasse of righteousnes which few of this company haue the other bokes more riser printed as is supposed in Flasâ—ders and translated by this Libeller into English as he himselfe confesseth And here I craue pardon in that I haue bin ouerlong to trouble your honor with these repeticioÌ„s and I would to God that I had no occasion ministred once to name these persons nor this error then should Christ his Church nor no member in the same haue needed to bend their study to publish or manifest the same The Lord of mercy geue your honor all increase of fayth with the trueth of true pietye and continue in you a zeale of Christ his Church with a care y nothing but trueth be taught therein and that the contemners thereof may be put to silence so as our God may be glorified his people edified error and heresies subuerted trueth aduanced which the Lord God graunt for his sonne our Sauiour Christ his sake to whom be honor â–ª and prayse now and euer Your honour to commaund I. Rogers To the Christian Reader CHristian Reader thou hast to peruse at thy pleasure this finale treatise contayning an aunswere vnto Christopher Vitell the chiefe â—lder of the pretended â—amâ—lye of Loue and because it was directed to me and aunsereth certaine poyntes of my former boke called the displeying of the â—amily Therefore it is very meete and conuenient that since the matter toucheth me neerely and â—hargâ—th me with much vntruth that I defend the cause I first toke in hand which I am verely pâ—rswaded is an honest iust and godly defenâ—e of thâ— puritye of doctrine now taught and pâ—blicklâ— preached which this â—amilye spuâ—ne egerly against And although 2. vigilant Pastors haue leaâ—nedly confuted the doâ—tâ—ine of their Author HN. Yet this little availeth to recall them home to that found profession that some of the once â—asted and least they should boâ—st or vaunt that they haue written or compiled anâ—thing which should not be aunswered I hâ—ue thought good once agayne to bend my simple study to â—nswere this libeller Christopher Vitell whole crâ—dit amongâ—st the â—amilye is not small Maâ—uelâ— not gâ—ntle reader that I being the simplest of many thousandes haue aâ—uentuâ—ed to meddlâ— in these disputable questions more â—itter for men of learning and knowledge I graunt but since they haue made their inuectiues agaynst me it behoueth me simply to aunswere wherin I confesse many thingâ—s are omitted which mâ—ght well hâ—ue bin spoken of and many thinges are briefely touched which should haue bin dilated if leasure had serued me but since I cannot dâ—e thinges as I would thou hast my goodwill as I could Yf thou wouldest profiâ—e by reading these conferences it is expedient that thou peruse a little boke called â—he displeing of the Familye the publishing of which boke was the cause that this man being touched therein neerely hath made this Lâ—bell for aunswere thereunto excusing himselfe of many crimes and as much as in him lyeth keeping vp the credit of their Aucthor HN. whoâ—e the â—amilye would not that he should be touched or blemished no not with a venew but he that listeth to marke how his chiefest schollâ—r or oldest â—ngliâ—h Elder Christopher Vâ—tel doth with might and maine culleâ— and hide all the faultes of HN. as well his â—octrine and foule errors as his corrupt lyfe and conueâ—sation and how confidently and with a bâ—asen face he auoucheth that all is false and lyes whatsoeuer is brought forth neuer so probably yeâ— with many witnesses thou shalt or it be long haue a testimoniall out of â—launders of HN his whole lyfe which if the Family here in â—ngland would be â—esoluâ—d with â—â—ueth shal be vpon any oâ—â—asion published in print it nothing blâ—misheth our â—ause although this rude and vnlâ—arned Aunswere be made vnto this slaunderous Libell but our God therein is greatly magnified that simple men are suâ—ficiently assisted with God his spiâ—ite to confute and ouerthrow this blasphemous doctrine of the Familye so gâ—osse and absurd it is agaynst all the holy scripture and agaynst common reason And as nothing is more in vaâ—iance betweene vs then how man is restored vnto that â—lisle lost in Adam and his state being regeneâ—ate I haue simply set downe my poore sâ—ill such experience of a regenerat man as I finde in holy writâ— feele in my own consciâ—ence And also I haue collected the condition of a regenerat peâ—son by the doctâ—ine of HN. as neeâ—e as I could collect by such bokes of theirs as came to my handes wherein if the Familye imagine that I haue not rightly set foâ—th a â—egeneâ—at man after their doctrine let some of their illuminat Elders if they please set vpright such a one as they will stand vnto So shall the controuersy betwene them and vs soner come to end and tryall which if they refuse to doe then it will appeare that it is not
your wordes arâ— no warrantes â–ª you say I dispise him because he aâ—firmeth that he is a Prophet sent of God his person I hate not onely his doctrine and vaine prophesyes I vtterly mislyke and most of all because many of this our natiue countrye of â—ngland are by him and his vayne prophesies deluded and deceaued and being moued with zeale for my brethren and countreymen I haue bent my selfe with such poore sâ—ill as I haue to vtter his follyes and vaintyes there be many learned in Christ his Church farre better ab e to haue written hereof to whose office it properly belongeth to clense the Church being defiled with heresies yet I take y man to be none â–ª of the Church of Christ that thinketh he hath no office in his Church Yf I dislyke him because hâ—â—arth he is a Prophet c. I haue great reason and good warrant so to doe Iere. chap. 23. verse 16. sayth Heare â—ot the wordes of the Prophetes which prophesie vnto you vaâ—itye they speake the 〈◊〉 of their owne â—art and not the 〈◊〉 of the Lord we are also warned by Christ and his Apostles not to geue credit to such vaine Prophets and false teachers Peter Epistle 2. chap. 12. There shall be false teachers among you which priuily shall bring iâ— damnable heresies euen denying the Lord that hath bought theÌ„ with infinite places more Since Christ our Lord asceÌ„ded into heauâ—â—â— office of prophesing â–ª and foretelling of thingeâ— haue ceased in the Church onely the Apostles were 〈◊〉 with the spirite of God and by the power of the same spirite foretold of many thinges that should happenâ— but it ceased 〈◊〉 many haue risen vp and haue prowdly prophessed but they 〈◊〉 ben conâ—â—ned as false Prophetes euen as your HN. 〈◊〉 â—ou say the tyme may come thaâ— I shall â—inde his prophesies true you put the tyme vncertaine but you haue told your Familye in corners as I am 〈◊〉 informed that many of your prophets sayinges should eare thiâ— haue bin fulâ—â—lled touching the publick receiuing of your â—octrine which are proued false and vntrue although I 〈◊〉 beleue it yet I ought not to dispise it you say why I ought to beleue it you render no reason we are forbidden to credite any such as I haue proued In y I ought not to dispise it I pray you shew some cause â— tho vanitye tâ—at be â—ttereth touching â–ª hiâ—â—â—â—ference with almighty God â–ª how the power of God coÌ„passed him â—bout with a 〈…〉 c. and agayne hâ— sayth thâ— being of God gaue forth his sound 〈◊〉 and spake vnto â—e HN. through the spirite of his Loue all thesâ— wordes and sayd 〈◊〉 there was neâ—eâ—â—ny that writ in Christes Church that euer vsed any such vayne and prowde speach I hauâ— sayd y it is requisitâ— that HN. if he will needeâ— haue his new office of a Prophet to be credited that he must worke miracles â–ª which it semeth he doeth as some in your Familye in sadnâ—s haue tould amongest other matters this is auouched that NH is not ignoraunt in any language no not the learned tongues he hath written an â—pistle vnto the Byshops here in â—ngland in latin I thinke he hath his knowledge and learning by some bequest as a legacy also it was affirmed to me of credit that some of the Familye going ouer into Flaunders to him be tould them of all their message and instructions before they spake such markes and notes you geue out to your Familye to establishe your blinde Prophet You say I ought not to dispise the Dutch language wherein the Lord hath broughâ— forth his most holy seruice of Loue. To dispise any language I may not onely in coÌ„parison of other learned tongues I haue sayd it is rude And was there no seruice of God before among other nations but now brought forth in the Dutch tongue I would that there were no more heresies brought forth in the Dutch tongue but onely this of Nâ— but it is knowen to many learned y sundry heresies are written and published in that language to the griefe of God his children You further say that I neuer councelled with the Lord therefore know nothing of his secreates You sat vpon your iudgement seat when you writ this how know you that I neuer couÌ„elled with the Lord to councell with God wée may as we are taught that is in praying and hearing of his most holy word which I hope in the Lord that euer he will guide me with his holy spirite to doe and performe all the dayes of my lyfe as for your secret Reuelations and Prophesyes I am vtterly ignoraunt of they are things proper to your Familye but not to the Church of Christ. Vitel. MOreouer you writ not right where as you call it his Euangeliâ—um Râ—gnâ— yet doth Saint Paule say â—f ouâ— Gospell be â—id it is from them that be lost whole minde the God of this world hath blinded c. For it iâ— not writteÌ„ his and you finde fault with the pooâ—e Family of Loue as though thâ—y dâ—ny it â—iâ—h theiâ— mouth keepe it 〈◊〉 in their haâ—tâ— but you confesse the Lord â–ª 〈◊〉 your mouth and your hart is fâ—ll of bitternes and euen so you deny him with your hart and mouth Aunswere I Haue called a booke which H N. hath published his gospel because it is another and not agreeing with Christ his gospel therfore rightly termed his You would excuse it by saint Paule as though HN. had as good right to wryte and publish a gospel as that shining vessel S. Paul. Whether will you lift vp your prophet so high that with Lucifer he may be cast down as low we are warned not to credite any bringing another gospell he is accursed as sayth the holy ghost there was neuer any godly man since the Apostles time that durst be so presumptuous as intitle any broke and call it a gospell ' therefore your Author hath dealt therin presumptuously and wickedly Now whereas I find fault with the poore Family in affirming denying I would I had not some cause so to doo but where you ad this word poore if it be so you are the cause therof for with your manyfold collections to set out the Authors works you haue in dâ—ede made many an honest wealthy housholder poore as I can testifie and name the parties and you haue beene charged herewith before this time You say moreouer that I confesse the Lord with my mouth deny him with my hart If this be true then am I worthy great reprehention but if it be false then are you worthy the reward of a lyar and slaunderer In deede it is somewhat gréenous vnto you and your patience can scarce beere it that I haue so openly manifested you and your Author yet therin I confesse I haue done nothing but my duety which I owe vnto the church of Christ that the simple may be warned of your suttle snares and deceits wher with