3. Neither worship yow God aright but after an jdolatrous and superstitious maÌ„ner 4. and your church is not gouerned by Christes Testament but by the Romish courtes and canons etc. L. Tr. Here is matter ynough in deed I perceiue thow takest delight to be an author of this new religion The L. Chanc. said he neuer heard such stuffe before in al his life B. As I was about to shew that neither I was an author of this religioÌ„ and that it was not new as they supposed the B. of Lo. interrupted me and asked me wherin their worship was jdolatrous The L. Treas also demaunded the same question B. Ther is nothing els in that book of your common prayer being demaunded some particulers I shewed that their saintes daies eues fastes idol feastes etc. Lond. Stay there why is it not lawful to keep a memorial of the Saintes in the church B. Not after your manner it is jdolarrie Lond. How proue now that B. By the 1. commaundement Lond. Why that is thow shalt haue no other Gods but me What of that B. The word is Thow shalt haue no other Gods before mâ— face We are therfore forbidden to giue any part of Gods worship to any creature Lond. Why neither doe we B. Yes yow celebrate a day and sanctifie an eaue and cal them by their names yow make a feast and deuise a worship vnto them L. Tr. Why may we not cal the day after their names is not that in our libertie B. No my Lord. L. Tr. How proue yow that B In the beginning of the booke it is written that God himselfe named al the dayes the first the second etc. L. Tr. Why then we may not cal them Sunday Monday etc. B. We are otherwise taught to cal them in the booke of God L. Tr. Why thow they selfe callest it the Lordes day B. And so the holy Ghost calleth it in the â— of the Reuelation Lond. We haue nothing in our saintes dayes but that which is taken forth of the Scriptures B. In that yow say true for yow finde no Saintes dayes in the Scriptures Lond. We finde their Histories and deedes in the Scripture B. But not their dayes and festiuals in the Scripture The Lo. Buckh. then said I was a proud spirit The L. Treas said I had a hotte braine and taking into his hande a book of common prayer which lay on the boord read certaine of the collectes for the Sainte◠〈…〉 Scripture and asked me what I could 〈…〉 therin B. I mislike al for we ought not so to vse Scriptures or prayers Lond. May we not make commemoration of the saintes fiues in the church B. Not after yowr manner to giue peculier dayes eues fastes worship feastes vnto them L. Tr. But what is there jdolatrous B. Al for we ought not so to vse the Scriptures Lond. What not in commemoration of the Saintes B. As I haue said not after yowr manner L. Tr. But what is euil here B. All my Lo. for by abusing the Scripture we may make it an jdol The circumstantes make euil thinges of themselues good as in the massâ—â—ook from whence this stuffe is fetched there are sundry good collectes and places of scripture which their superstitious abuse make abhominable and euil Likewise coniurers make many good prayers which the circumstances also make euil Here the Lo. Buckh. said I was out of my wittes B. No my Lo. I speak the wordes of sobernes and truth as I could make plaine if I might be suffered L. Tr. Here we pray that our liues may be such as theirs was void of couetousnes B. So ought we to doe and not to reade or haue any parte of the scripture without fruite and to follow and flee that which we finde praised and discommended in them yet ought we not to vse the scriptures in this manner to dayes and times neither to be thus restreyned or stinted in our prayers as to be tied to this forme of wordes place time manner kneele stand etc. L. Buckh. This fellow delighteth to heare himselfe speake The L. Chanc. also spake some what at that time which I cannot cal to remembrance as yet Then the Arch B. also spake many thinges against me of smal effect which I haue also forgotten onely this I remember he said I was strower of errors and that therfore he committed me B. In deed yow committed me halfe a yeare close prisoner in the Gatehowse and I neuer vntil now vnderstood the cause why neither as yet know I what errors they be shew them therfore I pray yow The L. Buckh. againe said I was a presumtuous spirit B. My Lo. al spirits must be tried and iudged by the word of God but if I erre my Lo. it is meet I should be shewed wherin L. Chanc. Ther must be streighter lawes made for such fellowes B. Would to God ther were my Lo. our iourny should be the shorter L. Tr. Yow complained to vs of iniustice wherin haue yow wrong B. My Lo. in that we are thus imprisoned without due trial L. Tr. Why yow said yow were condemned vpon the statute B Vniustly my Lo. that statute was not made for vs. L. Tr. Ther must be streighter lawes made for yow B. O my Lo. speak more comfortablie we haue sorrowes ynough L. Tr. In deed thow lookest as if thow hadst a troubled conscience B. No I praise God for it but 〈…〉 wen against her faithful subiectes The L. Tr. answered that the Queenes sword was not as yet drawen against vs. Then in a word or two I complayning of the misery and lingring close imprisonment which we suffer the L. Tr demaunded if we had had no conference The B. of Lond. answered that sundrie had bene with vs as D. Some Grauiat and others but we mocked them that came vnto vs. B. That is not true the Lord knoweth we mock no creature Neither doe I know or haue euer seene to my remembrance that Grauiat yow speak of But miserable phisitians are yow al for M r. Some he indeed was with me but neuer would enter disputation he said he came not therefore but in reasoning manner to know some what of my minde more cleerly Some was then by the Arch B. called and demaunded whither we had conference or no Some shewed how that at our last conference before S r. A. G. ther arose a question betwirt vs whither the Prince might make a positiue law de rebus meâ—ijs of thinges indifferent I denying it he asked me whither she migt make a statute for the reforming excesse of apparel I graunted that she might He then said it was a doctrine of Divils to forbid meate by a positiue law he shewed me then that the Princes law did not binde the conscience and that ther is a difference betwirt forum ciuile and forum conscientiae Some to this effect M r. Young then vncalled came and accused me of vnreuerend speeches vsed against his Lords grace at my first conference with
silent A. Wel wil yow lay your hand on the Bible and take an oath B. I vse to ioyne no creatures to the name of God in an oath A Neither shal yow this is but a custome commanded by law B. The law ought not to commannd a wicked custome A Why is it not lawful to lay your hand on a book B. Yes but not in an oath A. Wil yow lay your hand in my hand and sweare B. No. A. Wil yow lay your hand on y e table and sweare B. No. A. Wil yow hold vp your hand towards heauen and sweare B. That is not amisse but I wil vse my libertie A. Why yow hold it lawful to lay your hand on the table and sweare B. Yea so it be not commanded and made of necessitie A. Why the booke is y â— like it is nothing of the oath but a thing indifferent B. If it be nothing of the othe why doe yow so peremptorilie inioyne it and if it be indifferent as yow say it is then doe I wel in not vsing it A. Nay yow doe not wel in refusing it for therin yow shew yowr self disobedient to the higher powers set over yow by God B. Euen now yow said it was a thing indifferent if it be so ther is no power can bring me in bondage to my libertie A. Where finde yow that B. In S Paul 1. Cor. The Arch B. Archd. D r. Cussins al denied it I affirmed it a litle testament in greek and latine was brought me and a Bible I looked foe the place but could not finde it great sault was in my memorie ffor I looked in the 10. chapter neither â—â—deed could I bethinke me where to finde it they so interrupted me A. Your deâ—initie is like yowr law B. The word of God is not the worse for my il memorie A. Yow speak not as yow thinck for yow are prowd B. I haue smal cause to be prowd of my memorie yow see y t default of it but the Apostle saith it Againe they al denyed it Yow then haue no cause to condemne my memorie seing yow al haue vtterly forgotten this sayeng Then repeated I the words Al thinges are lawful for me but I wil not be brought in bondage to my libertie Then they recited Rom. 14. and 1. Corint 8. al thinges are lawful for me but al thinges are not expedient I said I meant not that place A. I would like it wel if yow cited your place in Greek or Latine B. Why yow vnderstand English is not the word of God in English Then Cussin began to speak of indefinita propositio but whervpon I can not cal to remembranc â— I told him we were now about the new Testament it might be if he had asked me that question when I knew him in Cambridge I should then haue answered him he forthwith called to remembrance of what howse I was A. Were yow then of Cambridge B. Yea I knew yow there He said he was there before I was borne I said it might be Then he entred into discourse of his antiquititie Then he asked me if I had read books as Calvin Beza etc I answered that I had read more then ynough But yet I know not why I am emprisoned A. It is reported that yow come not to church are disobedeent to her maiestie and say that ther is not a true church in England what say yow haue yow at any time said thus B. These are reportes when yow produce yowr testimonie I wil answer A. But I wil better beleeue yow vpon yowr oath then them how say yow wil yow sweare B. I wil know what I sweare to before I sweare A. ffirst sweare and then if any thing be vnlawfully demaunded yow shal not answer B. I haue not learned so to sweare I wil first know and consider of the matter before I take an oath Thus many thinges being alleaged to and fro by vs the Arch B. commaunded Cussin to recorde that I refused to sweare vpon a book B. pea and set downe also that I wil not sweare thus at randon but first I wil know and consider of the thinges I sweare vnto whither they require an oath A Wel when were yow at church B. That is nothing to yow A. Yow are a scismatick a recusant a seditious person etc. with many such like B. Say what yow list of me I freelie forgiue yow A. I care not for yowr forgiuenes B. But if yow offend me yow ought to seek it while yow are in the way with me A. When were yow at church B. I haue answered that in an other place it belongeth not to yow A. Why are yow indited B. I am A. Yet belongeth it to ys I wil not onely medle with yow but arraigne yow as an heretick before me B. Yow 〈…〉 no more then God â—â—â— Erre I may but hereticke wil I never be A. Wil yow come to church hereafter B. ffuture thinges are in the Lords handes if I doe not yow haue a law A. Haue yow spoken these wordes of the church of England B. When yow produce your witnesse I wil answer A. But vpon your oath I wil beleeue yow B. But I wil not accuse my self Then began he againe to charge me with scisme sedition heresâ—e B. Yow are lawlesse I had rather yow produced yowr witnesse A. Of what occupation are yow B. A christian A. So are we al. B. I deny that A. But are yow a minister B. No. A. A scholemaister B. No. A. What then of no trade of life B. In your letter yow know my trade in the superscription A Yow are then a gentleman B. After the manner of our countrie a gentleman A. Serue yow any man B. No I am Gods freeman A. Haue yow landes B. No nor fees A. How liue yow B. By Gods goodnes and my freinds A. Haue yow a father aliue B. Yea. A. Wher dwelleth he in Norffolke B. Yea. A. Wher dwel yow in London B. No. A. Wel can yow finde sufficient suretie for your good behaviour B. Yea as sufficient as yow can take A. What yow cannot haue the Queene B. Neither can yow take her she is the iudge of her law yet for my good behauiour I suppose I could get her word A. Doth she know yow then B. I know her A. Els were it pitie of your life B. Not so A. Can yow haue any of these that came with yow to be bound for yow B. I know not I thinke I can A. What know yow them not B. I know one of them A. What is he B. A gentleman of Graies ynne A. What cal yow him B. Lacie A. But know yow what band yow should enter yow are bound hereby to frequent our churches B. I vnderstand yow of my good behauiour A. And in it is this conteyned and so yow had forseyted your band at the first B. Wel now I know yowr minde I wil enter no such bande A Then I wil send yow to prison Then
called he Watson the pursuvaÌ„t and O. Cussins a part into a windowe where he made a warrant to send me to prison B. â—ow shal not touch one haire of my head without the wil of my heauenly father A. Nay I wil doe this to rectifie yow B. Consider what yow doe yow shal one day answer it A. Yow wil not sweare yow wil not enter bond for your appearance B. I wil put in band for my baile in the prison and for my true imprisonment A. Nay that wil not serue the turne M r. Doctor enter these thinges Then Cussins wrote that I refused to sweare and enter bond â— I wil send some to yow to conferre A. B That were more requisite before my imprisonment So the Arch B. delivered me to the pursuvant to â—arie me to the 〈…〉 where I as yer 〈…〉 neither knowing the cause of my imprisonment neither haue I as yet heard from him I was no sooner out of his howse but I remembred the place in controversie it is written 1. Cor. 6. 12. Al thinges are lawful for me but al thinges are not profitable I may doe al thinges but I wil not be brought vnder the power of any thing The lord knoweth to deliver the godâ— out of tâ—ntation and to reseâ—â—e the â—â—â—ust vnto the day of Judgement vnder punishment THe 27. of November 8. daies after I was commited by Cant. to the Gatehowse I was sent for by one of his servantes to make appearance before the high Commissioners at Lambeth whither he and my keepers man Nitholas caried me There I found a very great traine without but within a goodlie Synode of Bbs. Oeanes Civilians etc. beside such an apparance of wel-fedde silken Preistes as I suppose might wel haue bâ—seemed the â—aticaue where after to my no smal greif I had heard a scholemaister deny his maister Christ I was called CAnterburie with a grimme and an angrie countenance beholding me made discourse how I refused to sweare on a book etc. as fel out in our first meeting and demannded whither I were now better advised and would sweare I answered that I would not refuse to sweare vpon due occasion and circumstances C. Wil yow then now sweare B. I must first know to what C. So yow shal afterward B. I wil not sweare vnlesse I know before C. Wel I wil thus far satisfie your humour London begaÌ„ to interrupt but Cant cut him of and produced a paper of obiections against me which he delivered to one Beadle to read It conteyned much matter and many suggestions against me disorderly framed according to the malitious humour of mine accuser as that I denyed God to haue a true church in England and to proue this the 4. principal causes framed in way of argumeÌ„t as the worship of God with vs is jdolatrie ergo no true church They haue an Antichristian and jdolatrous ministerie ergo no true church ffurther he saith that the reverend father in God my lords grace of Cant. and al the Bps. of the land are Antichristes ffurther he saith that al the ministers in the land are theeues and mâ—â—therers and secret hypocrites and that al the preachers of the land are hirelinges That Mr. Wiggington and Cartwright straine at a gnat and swollow a camel â—â—urther he 〈…〉 aâ— writers as â—aâ—vin Beza etc. and saith that al catechismes are idolatrous and not to be vsed The reasons to these were vntrulie and disorderley set downe accordingly in the bil which I cannot rehearse L. How say yow Mr. Deane of Pauls here is for yow yow haue written a catechisme Cant. This fellow deaâ—es indifferently he makes vs al alike Thus far haue I satisfied yow now yow know what yow shal sweare vnto how say yow wil yow sweare now Lond. My Lordes grace doth not shew this favour to many Can. ffetch a book Bar. It is needles C. Why wil yow not sweare now B. An oath is a matter of great importance and requireth great consideration But I wil answer yow truly Much of the matter of this bil is true but the forme is false C. Goe to sirra answer directlie wil yow sweare reach him a book B. Ther is more cause to sweare mine accuser I wil not sweare C. Where is his keeper yow shalnot prattle here Away with him clap him vp close close let no man come at him I wil make him tel an other tale per I haue done with him Ther was an article against me in the bil for saying that I thought Elders were Bisshops and Philip. 1. 1. produced here by I plainly discouer mine accuser to be Thornelie of Norwich with whom I had communication at Ware as I rode to London and never talked with any other about this matter THe effect and so neere as my fraile memorie could cary away the very wordes of such interrogatories and answers as were demaÌ„ded of and made by me Henry Barrowe before certeyne Commissioners ther vnto especially appointed by her Maiestie namely the two L. cheef Justices the maister of the Rolles the L. cheef Baron and another Baron of the Exthequor I thinck Baron Gente togither with the Arch B. of Cant the B. of London the B. of Winchester certaine of their Chanâ—ellors and â—â—uil Doctors with their Registers and Scribes The 24. of March I being brought before the Arch B of Cant he made knowne vnto me that they were authorised by her Maiestie to examine me vpon my oath vpon certaine interrogatories and therfore called for a booke ther was brought a great bible in folio faire bound which the Arch B. refused and called for an other which was held to me by 〈…〉 Bar. To what ende Cant. To sweare B. I haue not learned to sweare by any creatures Cant. This is the word of God the Bible B. I began to open the book and meant in deed to haue asked him if the Apocrypha scripture and notes which were in it were the word of God but Cant. belike suspecting some such matter would not suffer me to look into it to whom then I answered that that booke was not the eternal Word of God that eternal God himselfe by whom onely I must sweare and not by any bookes or Bibles Cant. So yow shal sweare by God Bar. To what purpose then is this booke vrged I may sweare by nothing besides him nor by nothing with him Winch. How proue yow that B. It is so commanded in the book of the law Deut. 6. and 10. Chapt. so expounded by sundrie of the prophets by Christ himselfe and his Apostles Cant. Wel wil yow sweare that yow wil answer nothing but the truth and the whole truth to such Interr as we shal demaund of yow B. I haue learned to know the matter before I either sweare or answer Cant. Set downe that he wil not sweare L. E. Justice Yow shal onely sweare to answer the truth if any vnlawful thing be demaunded of yow yow need not answere B. My Lord euery truth requireth
Some in my chamber so they were dismissed Then I beseeched the Lâ—s to graunt a publicke conference that it might appearâ— to al men what we held and where we erred The Arch B. in great choller said we should haue no publicke conference we had published to much already and therfore he now committed vs close prisoners B. But contrary to law The L. Tr. said it might be vpon such occasions done by law and asked whither I had any learning Cant. and Lond. with one consent answered togither that I had no learning B. The Lord knoweth I am ignorant I haue no learning to boast of but this I know that yow are voide of al true learning and godlines L. Buckh. See the spirit of this man Then requested I conference againe and that in writing which was againe by Cant. very peremtorilie denyed He said that he had matter to cal me before him for an hereticke B. That shal yow neuer doe yow know my former answer to that matter wel erre I may but hereticke by the grace of God wil I neuer be L. Buckh. That is wel said The L. Tr then taking vp a paper of Somes abstract questions which lay among the Bs euidence against me read this That I held it vnlawful to enacte a law that the ministers shal liue by tithes or the people pay them and demaunded of me whither I held tithes vnlawful B. My Lo. they are abrogated and vnlawful L. Tr. Why thoâ—â— wouldest 〈…〉 haue the 〈…〉 of somewhat wherof should he 〈…〉 B. Ex pura eleemosyna of clere almes as Christ in his Testament hath ordeyned and as he and his Apostles L. Tr. But how if the people wil not giue B. Such are not the people of God L. Tr. But what shal the ministers doe in the meane time B. Not stand a minister to such neither take the goods of the prophane L. Tr. Where canst thow shew me now in the Scriptures that the ministers now ought not to liue vpon tithes B. I took the bible and turned to these two places Heb. 7 12. Gal. 6 6. in the one where tithes are abrogate in the other that an other provision is made for them Lond. began the â—auil at the wordes pure and cleere almes Cant. at the place in the Hebr. saying that the authors intent was to proue an abrogation of the preisthod B. Why the wordes of the text are these If the preisthod be changed then of necessitie must ther be a change of the law and yow cannot deny but that tithes were a part of that law alleging Num. 18. L. Tr. What wouldst thow haue him to haue al my goodes B. No my Lo. but I would haue yow to withhold none of your goodes from helping him neither rich nor pore are exemted from this duty ffurder I shewed that if the minister had thinges necessarie as food and rapment he ought to hold him self contented neither ought the church to giue him more Then had we some talke concerning the word Preist the L. Tr. said that the ministers now were not to be called preistes B. If they receiue tithes they are preistes Moreouer they be called preistes in the law Lond. Why what is the word presbyter I pray yow B. An elder Lond. What in age onely B. No Timothie was a yong man Lond. Presbyter is latine for a preist B. It is no latine word but deriued and signifieth the same which the greek word doth which is an Elder Lon. what makest thow a preist B. Him that doth offer sacrifices for so it is written euery where in the law As we were thus reasoning the L. Chanc. asked me if I knew not those two men pointing to Cant. and Lond. B. Yes my Lo. I haue cause to know them L. Chanc. But what is not this the Bp. of London B. I know him for no Bishop my Lo. L. Ch. What is he then B. His name is Elmar my Lo. The Lord pardon my fault that I laid him not open for a wolfe a bloody persecutor and Apostata But by this time the Wardens man plucked me vp L. Chanc. What is that man pointing to Cant. B. The Lord gaue me the spirit of boldnes so that I answered He is a monster a miserable compound I know not what to make him he is neither Ecclesiastical nor ciuil euen that second Beast spoken of in the Reuelation L. Treas Wher is that place shew it B. So I turned to the 13. Chap. and began at the 11. verse and read a litle Then I turned to 2. Thes 2. But the Beast arose for anger gnashing his teeth and said wis yow suffer him my Lords So I was pluckt vp by the Wardens man from my â—nees and caried away As I was â—e parting I desired the Lo. Treas that I might haue the libertie of the aire but had no answer and I prayed the Lord to blesse their honours So I was led forth by an other way then I came in that I might not see the brethren nor they me This is the effect so neere as my euil memorie could cary away the very wordes that were vsed to me and by me in that place The Lord pardon my vnworthines and vnsanctified hart and mouth which can bring no glory to the Lord or benefite to his church but rather reproch to the one and affliction to the other But the Lord knoweth how to deliuer the godly out of tentation and to reserue the vniust vntil the day of iudgement vnder punishment The L. Treas admonished me and told me that I took the Lords name often in vaine I haue forgotten vpon what occasion he spake it But I beseech the Lord that I may not forget this his good admonition but may set a more careful watch before my lippes for sure no doubt I am greatly guiltie that way and neuer vse his holy name with that reuerence I ought THe answers of John Grenewood at London pallace before the 2. L. chief Justices of Engl. the Mr. of the Rolles the L. chief Baron togither with the Arch B. of Cant. the B. of Lond. the B. of Winch. with others to certaine interrogatories as foloweth Q. WHat is your name A. John Grenewood Q. Lay yowr hand vpen the book yow must take an oath A. I wil sweare by the name of God if ther be any need but not by or vpon a book Q. We wil then examine yow without an oath Are yow a minister A. No I was one after your orders Q. Who disgraded yow A. I disgraded my self through Gods mercy by repentance then after many wordes they brought forth a paper conteyning certaine articles in manner of questions as foloweth Q. Is is lawful to vse the Lordes prayer publickly or privatly as a prayer or no A. It is a doctrine to direct al our prayers by but seing it conteyneth the doctrine of the holy Scripture no man can vse the same as a private or publick prayer because he hath not present need to aske al the