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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A65264	A fuller answer to Elimas the sorcerer or to the most material part (of a feign'd memoriall) toward the discovery of the Popish Plot, with modest reflections upon a pretended declaration (of the late Dutchess) for charging her religion : prelates ... in a letter addressed to Mr. Thomas Jones by Richard Watson ... / published by Monsieur Maimburg ...	Watson, Richard, 1612-1685.	1683 (1683)	Wing W1090; ESTC R34094	54,514	31

along with a finall renunciation of the Pope's usurpt Supremacy and tyranny over our King and Nation after 400 years dispute about the point with intervalls and variety of success on either side And an Oath may be tender'd to maintain the Kings Independent Praerogative in Church affairs quoad extra without any offence or resistance of the said H. Spirit Of which Praerogative yet if a King which I put at large because all Christian Kings are alike concern'd in the case will at any time remit and deliver freely or with some reserve his Ecclesiastike Power into the hands of the Church or into his whom he will constitute for the time Caput unitatis the Head of unity in his Realm as many have done and do at this present I know no reason why the Subject should not submit to that derivative power which being held of the King is ordained of God For to say That before the Reformation made any Subject might have withdrawn his obedience to the King because the King had vested that part of his power in the Pope I fear had been little less than resisting or at least declining the ordinance of God to go on no further in that Text. But I return to our most unhappily perplexed Princess who takes offence at the Bishops that were of the first Reformers for pretending their sole design to have been re-establishing the Doctrine and Discipline of the Primitive Church after Henry 8. had enterpriz'd a separation from Rome upon no other account but his own satisfaction in criminall pleasures What K. Henry 8's principall or less principall intents were I know none but the ghost of his Confessour if raised again could assure her The most Reverend Archbishop Cranmer no doubt knew most of his mind from beginning to end in the matter of divorce and what annexes it had of his criminall pleasures c. but in what I have seen of his Grace's writing I met with nothing at all which in that particular could have gratified her Highness yet be K. Henry's meaning alltogether so bad as suspected I understand not why the Reverend Bishops who were better inclined should be involved with him in the sin being instruments under God of bringing good out of evil and who by such degrees as K. Henry's other policies would permit made good that pretence both the rest of his and in the few years of Edward 6. his Reign howsoever managed by that covetous Lord Protectour in his minority as in a great part beside other instances our Historians have mentioned does undeniably appear in that little Code of Reformation as I may call it entituled The institution of a Christian Man composed and published by and with the consent of many pious and prudent persons Anno 1537. viz the two Archbishops at that time nineteen of the Bishops eight Archdeacons and seventeen Professours of Divinity Ecclesiasticall and Civill Lawes which book and some other like beside many Dedicatory and Praefatory Epistles praefixed to them if her H. had neither in possession nor seen she was strangely destitute of due assistance and not well praepared for so severe a censure in a praecipitate Declaration Nor yet much better I fear for the application she next made to instruct her self in the controversiall points between us and the Roman-Catholiques having not read as may be presumed the Primitive Fathers and Councels but relying upon sole Scripture without the Conciliators of Texts if not opposite inconsistent in shew nor other authentike Interpreters but her own private spirit perhaps forearmed with prayers and teares but not praeassured by promise of Divine assistance and all desired success in the revelation of truth the solemn objection thrust upon us successively by the Papists and a too forward adventure which most commonly imports more haste then good speed as is here manifested by the sequel in her own Confession That the Scripture she believed not her self by her self capable to understand Yet on her H. went and notwithstanding the distrust she had of self and solitary abilities to her astonishment in the most difficult points of all drew with her own Bucket more truth as she was mis-perswaded from the bottom of the Well then the woman of Samaria could do with hers who went her way and left her water-pot behind her having her thirst quencht indeed yet not with the water she her self had drawn but with that of the Spirit infused from the mouth of the Messias the infallible Prophet the Christ as the Samaritan so good as confessed to the Citizens she earnestly called upon to come and see not to suddainly believe until better attested to 'em Venite videte not venite credite as Aquinas has it from St. Chrysostom And proijciat hydriam qui vult Evangelizare He or she that will evangelize or interpret the Gospell rightly must leave his Bucket behind him or break his Water-pot in pieces I' ay tronve neantmoins c. Yet notwithstanding her distrust her H. found what she could not promise her self so soon to discover severall things which now appeared so plain and according to her judgment so easie to comprehend that she wondred a thousand times how so long time had passed without reflecting on 'em The particulars whereof she now was strongly convinced fortement convaincue were 1. The reall presence of Iesus Christ in the Sacrament of the Altar 2. The infallibility of the Church 3. Confession Auricular she meanes And 4. Prayers for the Dead Of all which could I be convinced by the strongest argument I have heard or read in their Controversiall Writers I would soon be so far converted too Of the first so many volumes have been written on both sides that I am perswaded there can be little argument invented new on either to avoid transcript or the Author's disrepute of being plagiary but what is futile in so serious a quaestion or what makes the Schisme and Distance between us unnecessarily if not affectedly greater for setting aside the History of opinions in the severall ages of the Church the quotations of Fathers and other modern Authors the variety of expressions every man desiring to utter his own mind in his own words I really believe the substance of what we mean as relating to the whole controversie might be as well and as intelligibly contracted into one single sheet as spread upon so many thousand quires of Paper which fly about the world But to the point The reall presence la presence reelle in the Sacrament of the Altar was the first thing her R. H. missed in the Church of England I hope the Reverend D. Sutclive did not whose book she ever had in her hand when we approached to administer the body and blood of our Saviour to her upon her knees If he did I am sure his equalls and his superiours our Church Dignitaries and others have not declined the term Real from the beginning of our Reformation to this day nor to declare what is meant by

from Pop thus he writes Whether to confess to a Priest be an adviseable discipline and a good instance instrument and Ministery of Repentance and may serve many good ends in the Church and to the souls of needing persons it is no part of the Quaestion ..... The Church of England is no way engag'd against it but advises it and practises it ..... Ibid. P. 483 Indeed in order to Counsel or Comfort it may be very useful to tell all that grieves the penitent all that for which he hath no rest and cannot get satisfaction Were it necessary to search more among our Prelates and other Dignitaries of our Church that have freely delivered and published their mind in this point or to annex those I have already searched I could easily comply with it but ex copia satietas ne quid nimium a so good caution for moderation puts a restraint upon me Wherefore I much wonder her R. H. should pretend to leave us for want of Confessors more then of Preachers for if she had lookt back to some of our ancient Controvertists that novellissime may not be charged on the modern I have produced she would have met with Bishop Iewel our great Apologist rendring his opinion to like purpose thus The Abuses and Errors set apart we do no more mislike a Private Confession then a Private Sermon Def. of his Apol. Part 2 Pag. 133. But if to others of his time or since Calvinistically addicted so tender-conscienced are they in yielding any thing though our Church have done it toward a charitable and Christian accommodation with the Church of Rome as what they have written would in likelihood have little relieved her R. H. in the trouble she had about it The said Church of Rome indeed is very strict in this Article imposing upon her Penitents a particular enumeration of all mortall sinnes with all their severall aggravating circumstances which our Royall Martyr in his Confer pag. 172. sayes is either not possible or at least not necessary and hath a colourable argument for that his opinion which alone then applied to the Marquiss if it fully answer not the summe of all the learned Portuguise Doctors And radius of whom Bishop Mountagu gives this singular Elogy above others qui ad Concilium Tridentinum attulit profundissimi Theologimentem linguam Oratoris discrtissimi that he carried with him to the Councel of Trent the understanding of a most profound Divine and the tongue of a most eloquent Oratour Apparat. 1. ss 75. I say if it answer's not the summe of all that eminent person hath of all our Opposites most pertinently amassed for particular and perfect confession I wish it were strengthened by our most famed Controvertists of this time toward the true stating the difference between us and then commending the practice of what they approve to the best advantage and reforming the frequency and audacity of sinn in this licentious age Which the Romanists in France and Flanders do not alltogether with that fervent zeale and diligent circumspection as is pretended at least on their most solemn Festivals when usually the greatest number address themselves to their Confessors publikely in their Churches who make such a slight scrutinie and so indulgently dismiss their penitents to save time and to give all that come the satisfaction to take their turn that I have often censur'd the practice of it there as a meere formall business without enquiry into many circumstances of aggravation Nor do I remember that I ever saw one single person arise from the knee with a penitentiall tear of sorrow upon the cheek Yet that some of their Fathers do with integrity and discretion mesnage that great concern I will conclude with a report of what an honest Franciscan Friar at St. Malo told me and some other of our Nation That his course was this When any penitent came to him for absolution he would the first time treat him gently and impose no hard penance in consideration of humane frailty That the second time he confessed a relapse to the same sin he would deale more severely with him But if the third time he came to be eased of a like burthen he would not trifle away his time in discoursing with him but bid him go seek another Confessour for himself would have no more at all to do with him PRAYER for the DEAD The last conviction our Princess mention's is of Prayer for the Dead whereof she might have been resolved by the same or other alike learned Writers on our side so far as can be justified from the Precedent of the ancient Church and I know no new discovery hath been of that uncertain state I mean of the Dead as should move us to more charity toward our deceased friends then they had for theirs and so far as they we may adventure without controll The Right Reverend Bishop of Derry gives us in short what some others more enlarge upon Schism gard pag. 231. We condemn not all praying for the dead not for their Resurrection and the consummation of their happiness but their the Papists prayers for their deliverance out of Purgatory for it is a great mistake to think Purgatory must needs be yeilded when we make such prayers For which errour Bishop Mountagu sharply reproves the Gagger thus You are a poor Ignaro that think Soules must needs be in Purgatory that receive assistance from the Church It may be your poor understanding will wonder at it but know Sir I can admit Prayer for the Dead and deny your Purgatory Pag. 292. Which I think he repeats again to the Informers somewhere in his Appeale Bishop Field Book 3. Ch. 17. explaineth the manner of it among the Ancients viz. The custome of remembring the departed naming their names at the Holy Table in the time of the holy mysteries and offering the Eucharist that is the sacrifice of praise for there was a most ancient and godly custome neither is it any way disliked by us In this sort they did most religiously observe and keep at the Lord's Table the commemoration of all the Patriarches Prophets Apostles Evangelists Martyrs and Confessours but if they wished any thing it was the deliverance from the power of death which as yet tyranniseth over one part of them the speedy destroying of the last enemy which is Death the hastning of their resurrection and joyfull publique acquitall of them in that great day wherein they shall stand to be judged before the Judge of the quick and the dead This was the practise of the whole Church and this the meaning of their commemorations and prayers which was good and no way to be disliked It was the opinion of many of the Fathers that there is no judgment to pass upon men till the last day that all men are holden either in some place under the earth or else in some other place appointed for that purpose so that they come not into Heaven nor receive the reward