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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A65868	The he-goats horn broken, or, Innocency elevated against insolency & impudent falshood in answer to two books against the people of God called Quakers : the one intituled, A fuller discovery, which is stuffed with such a multitude of lyes, slanders, and perverting the truth, as the like hath not been extant : the authors of which are John Horn, Thomas Moore Senior, and Thomas Moore Junior : and the other book is falsely called truth's triumph by John Horn : which are answered for the information of the people, and the clearing of the servants of God, and the way of truth to the simple hearted from the lyes, delusions and fallacies that have proceeded from the spirit of Antichrist and blasphemy, in these men aforesaid, who profess themselves ministers of Christ but are proved ministers of Satan and unrighteousness / by a witness of Christ and his work against all the works of darkness, G.W.	Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723.	1660 (1660)	Wing W1933; ESTC R38606	53,172	64

The He-Goats Horn Broken OR INNOCENCY Elevated Against Insolency Impudent FALSHOOD In Answer to two Books against the People of God called Quakers The one intituled A FULLER DISCOVERY which is stuffed with such a multitude of Lyes Slanders and perverting the Truth as the Like hath not been extant The Authors of which are John Horn Thomas Moore Senior and Thomas Moore Junior And the other Book is falsely called TRUTH' 's TRIUMPH by JOHN HORN Which are Answered for the Information of the People and the clearing of the servants of God and the way of Truth to the simple hearted from the Lyes Delusions and Fallacies that have proceeded from the Spirit of Antichrist and Blasphemy in these ●●n aforesaid who Profess themselves Ministers of Christ but are proved Ministers of Satan and Unrighteousness By a witness of Christ and his work against all the Works of Darkness G. W. In vain have the Wicked exalted their Horn against the Righteous LONDON Printed for Robert Wilson at the Sign of the Blackhead Eagle and Windmill in Martins near Aldersgate 1660. A PREFACE OH how great hath the wrath of the Dragon that old Serpent who is the Father of Lyes been against the Seed which God hath Raised up and Indued with his Power from on High and yet this Seed hath Dominion over all the strength and wrath of the wicked One to lift up a Standard against him even when he Appears and breaks forth as a flood against the Lord and his Anointed against whom no Iniquity nor Enmity can prevail or Prosper and this hath the Lord God of Hosts made us Witnesses of to his Eternal Praise that it is no marvell to us that the Generation of Vipers and Serpents who are Warring for the Kingdom of Darkness do put forth their stings and cast out their Vennome against us since that in the Power of God we are brought to tread upon them and their deceits and if the Readers hereof have a single eye to the Lord in his Light in them they 'l see what a Body of Wickedness and Enmity hath Appeared in these our Opposers viz. in John Horn Thomas Moore the Elder and the Younger who have pleaded and much Contended for Sin which is the Devils Work and for their wearing Cuffs and Ribbonds and for Tythes which the Ministers of the New Testament pleaded not for nor ever owned such Vanities as Cuffs and Ribbonds c. So that all sober minded People who Love the Light of the Lord in them and his Truth may soon see what Spirit these are of that plead for and uphold such deceits as these men aforesaid have done And let the witness of God in all Consciences be minded by which the Spirits may be tryed and discovered whether they be of God or no and this Light of Christ in your Consciences being minded and you who have a desire to know the Lord waiting in the Light it will bring your minds into stability to feel Gods Power and Teachings where the Confusion cannot prevail over you for your Confusion and Darkness is among the Teachers and People who are as the Waters that are unstable where the Whorish Spirit Rules And wo is to such who are the Inhabitants of the Earth and of the Sea unto whom the Devil is come down and hath great wrath because he knoweth that he hath but a short time Rev. 12. 12. A BRIEF ANSVVER To the Book Called A Fuller Discovery c. EVil men and Seducers wax worse and worse deceiving and being deceived and the wise Men are turned backward and the Diviners made Mad 2 Tim. 3. 13. Isai. 44. 25. who have striven to overthrow the Truth as these men viz. John Horn Thomas Moore Senior and his Son Thomas Moore have done that their Impudency folly and Falshood more Appears than ever who have evidently shewed themselves to be such as walk with Slanders and have made Lyes their Refuge who are such as the Prophet called Brasse and Iron who are all corrupters Jer. 6. 28. which I shall here briefly shew both for the clearing of the Truth and us the Witnesses of it and for the satisfying of the Simple that they may not be Corrupted with the Lyes and Corrupt Doctrines of these the Truth's Enemies who whilest they Profess Liberty and Redemption to others and pretend a denyall of the Priests of the Nation they themselves are Children of Corruption in Bondage to the Devil that old Lyar his works which many both Priests and Professors have largely Appeared in against Gods Truth and work in his People For notwithstanding this J. Horn and Thomas Moore have acknowledged themselves to be neglecters of Christ and abusers of his Truth yet still they proceed in the same Iniquity and notwithstanding John Horn in page 55. of this their Fuller Discovery so Called where he had laid down a Falshood in his other Book now Confesseth himself subject to forgetfulness And over sights and so did in his forgetfulness write c. and in Page 66. they acknowledge that they have their share too much in the Pollutions viz. of the Nation in General and in Pag. 63. whereas John Horn had palpably belyed me about a Passage he had Learned out of a Priests Queries in Cambridge he now Confesseth himself Faulty and craves forgiveness he having been too rash in taking that upon trust which he Falsely charged me with as they acknowledge and yet how often have these Men accounted us Called Quakers false Prophets Deceivers Lyars Accursed as also they have accounted us Vipers and Scorpions Cockatrices not to be Charmed and like the Locusts out of the Bottomless pit whose sting is in their Tayles which Revilings the Reader may Judge what Spirit they came from since they have craved forgiveness of us for belying us * and yet how often have they denyed that they have belyed us in their Books may be seen but what Hypocrites are they to Profess themselves Christs Ministers and be found in Lying as they are and what is their Confession worth when they continue in their evil as an Addition to their many former Lyes Forgeries and their former Rashness and abuses against the Truth they have falsely charged us with and laid down these things following against us called Quakers which we deny and return back upon Jóhn Horn and both the Tho Moores aforesaid who are the Inventers of these Lyes Slanders and Absurdities which were never owned by us Their Lies and Slanders in their Epistle are these viz. 1. They charge us with Maintaining that that body of flesh in which Christ suffered and bare our sins and which rose again is not a Body 2. That the Blood of Jesus Christ is not of the Foundation of our Faith and that our Faith is not Faith in Christs Blood 3. That the Body of his Flesh in which he Suffered we deny to remain 4. That the lower parts of the Earth into which Christ descended and the Heavens into which he

now to some of J. Horns and T. Moors Doctrines in their Epistle wherein they have belyed and grosly perverted the Truth with their false constructions and inferences as to our saying that the seed of God which is Christ wherever he is known in such a low measure as a seed that suffers and is burthened in man by corruption there he desires to be free from the burthen of sin and alwayes to do his Fathers will and this seed the Power reaches to where it is begotten and in the Power it arises in them that believe in the Light for their Redemption to which J. H. and T. M. Scornfully say of this seed Christ which we speak of that he hath not ceased from sin in them nor can do in all things his Fathers will but needs a Power to reach to him where he is begotten And that we represent him as one not able to do his Fathers will in some men To which I reply that Christ cannot in all things do his Fathers will is their own words and not ours neither does it follow from what we said for his desiring to do his Fathers will in that suffering state does no more argue that he is unable to do it than when he prayed to the Father not my will but thine be done who could do nothing without the Father as also the Heir as long as he is a Child differeth nothing from a Servant though he be Lord of all Gal. 4. 1. and Christ came into the World to do his Fathers will which is the sanctification of them that believe which he desired to do before it was done and as for the Power reaching the seed which so much these men have scoffed at and counted what we said of it confused stuff in page 63. They have shewed themselves ignorant of the seed of God which the promise is to and that they never knew the work of that Power which reaches that seed as also they are ignorant of the Scriptures for it is written Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive Power Riches Wisdome and Strength and Honour and Glory and Blessing Revel. 5. 12. so that they might as well have scoft at the Angels of God who spake these words as at us and have said that the Power that reaches to the seed is Christ and then Christ is worthy to receive Christ as also they have done in like manner in their scorn in page 63. wherein they have shewed their gross ignorance of the several manifestations of Christ the seed in his People who are of the seed of Abraham which Christ took upon him to redeem his own and to bring to his own Power and promise which he receives of the Father And our saying that this Seed which is Christ where he suffers and is burthened in man by corruption there he desires to be free from the burthen of sin does not argue as falsely as these men infer that it cannot be said of the Seed of God that in it is no sin for Christ hath suffered by mens sins and been pressed with them and born them Amos 2. 13. Ezek. 6. 9. and yet in him is no sin and if these men were not past feeling they might feel how the Spirit of the just in them they have often grieved burthened and afflicted by their own sins and yet in that Spirit there is no sin but in them who resist it J. Horn and Thomas Moor say their Christ by that his death once suffered and in his Resurrection in that his Body c. hath overcome Death and the Devil slain the enmity and taken out of the way all that was contrary to them redeemed them from the Curse of the Law I Answer Herein have they stollen the Saints words which they are out of the like of for if the enmity were taken out of the way Sin would not be their natural heritage as they have pleaded for it and they would not have uttered so many lies and falsehoods as they have done for one of which J. Horne hath craved forgivness and if all that 's contrary to them be taken out of their way then its evident that sin and the Nations pollutions are not contrary to them for they have confessed themselves too much to have a share in them and that they are abusers of the Truth And to that 1 John 4. 17. as he is so are we in this World J. H. and T. M. give their meaning and say as Christ is unknown despised hated persecuted in his Doctrine and judged by any of the World so are we Answ. In this have they apparently lyed for Christ was persecuted to Death of the World but so are not J. Horne not T. Moor neither are they unknown of the World as Christ was for Christ was never known to Preach in a Steeplehouse by an Hour-glass for Tyths or so much in the Year in Leiw of them like the Parish Priests and Deceivers who are out of the steps of the true Ministers who walked after Christs example not after the hireling Priests example who Preach for hire and gifts and reward as these men do And rather than J. Horne will freely suffer by the World as Christ did take heed that he fall not to the Common-prayer-book And to our calling J. Horne a Priest he sayes if we mean he is a Priest of the order of Aaron a Levitical Priest we say evidently false Answ. If he be not a Priest of the order of Aaron then he plainly appears to be a false Priest seeing that in Page 70. he hath pleaded for his taking Tyths as neither repugnant to Gods Law nor Mans as also his practises therein he instances that the Priests had their several Subburbs and Quarters when as they that had these were of the Levitical Priesthood Numb. 35. Which Priesthood J. Horne hath plainly denyed himself to be one of and yet pleads for Tyths which pertained to that Priesthood which Christ ended and disanulled the commandment which gave the Tyths Heb. 7. So what hypocrisie is this J. H. in who claimes a right to Tyths as both being according to the Law of God and Man and yet upon that account denies to be called Priest when as the Law of God calls them Priests that took Tyths and does not the Law of Man the like And does not the Book of Common-Prayer call them Priests So that upon this account may J. Horne be called a false Priest he claiming a right to Tyths as by the Law of God when as the service of the Tabernacle for which they were given to the Prists of Levie he is out of Numb. 18. As also he is guilty of the false Priests practises who Preached for hire and divined for money Mica 3. 11. J. H. and T. Moor the elder and the younger say that the false Apostles it seems by what the Apostles writes of them 2 Cor. 11. 12. they use to boast of their free Preaching and in Page 71. They

hath many Members so also is Christ and now are they many Members yet but one body 1 Cor. 12. 12 20. and there is one body and one Spirit Ephes. 4. 4. but I. Horn in a Paper to me saith that Jesus hath a humane Body and Soul * where does the Scripture say that Christs Soul is humane For his Soul is divine and immortal mens natural or earthly bodies are humane and the Apostle distinguisheth between them and the Spiritual bodies 1 Cor. 15. 40 44. so that Christ hath a glorious Spiritual body in Heaven which few can discern distinct from mens teresttial or natural bodies wch are humane now if Christ hath a natural or humane body a Spiritual body his Church too which is his body which they call his Mistical body may they not as well say he hath three bodies And then why not as well four or five bodies But their Ignorance about the natural and the Spiritual bodies is so plainly discovered in our Book intituled a Brief Discovery of the Dangerous Principles c. in which the Truth is so clearly over them that I need say little as to that Particular now To that 1 Thes. 4. 15. Where its said we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord c. John Horn and T. M. say we that live and remain means but those of us that shall be found living that is of the company of believers with whom they numbred themselves because then living and possibly not knowing but they might have lived to his coming but it no more implyes that the believers of that age should live and remain till the coming of Christ then they who lived in David's age lived in Moses age many hundred years before him c. I Answer Herein these perverters would accuse Paul with speaking both ignorantly and falsely to speak ignorantly as if he knew not whether they should live and remain till the coming of the Lord who then were alive and to speak falsely in their denying that the believers of that age should live and remain till the coming of Christ whenas Paul expresly said we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them that are asleep so that they knew the several appearances and opperations of Christ till they all beheld his glory with open face as in a glass and were made to sit with him in Heavenly places J. H. and T. M. The Apostles exhort to set our affections upon things above where Christ is also at the right hand of God not upon things within your selves but upon things above Col. 3. 2. 3. I Answer If the Saints were not to set their Affections on things within themselves then not upon Christ in them for the Riches of the Glory of this mystery was Christ in them the hope of Glory Col. 1. 27. so see the darkness of these men who would as by their Doctrine divide Christ who is both in the Saints and at Gods right hand not devided nor Gods right hand devided from them who are saved by it and how should they set their affections on things above when they do not affect Christ nor his Spirit in them Page 42. J. H. and T. M. The Apostles Faith was not grounded in Christs appearing in them Page 42. Answ. Which is contrary to the Apostles Doctrine for Paul Preached to the Saints that their faith might stand in the power of God and this power wrought mightily in them and Paul said examine your selves whether you be in the faith prove your own selves know you not your own selves how that Jesus Christ is in you except ye be reprobates J. H. and T. M. in Page 31. accuse us with being Juglers and Jesuites that are full of lies and confusion But this I return back upon them as a lie and a slander invented in their malice for do they know us to be Jesuites Why do they not discover us to be such then After that J. H. and T. M. have denyed that they that were led by the Spirit of God did witness the creature brought into the glorious liberty of the Sons of God before their decease wherein they have discovered much ignorance of the state of them who were led by the Spirit of God who remained not all their life time without their liberty they say it is God that hath ordered the Redemption there spoken of viz. Rom. 8. 23. to be after death c. and that it was their part viz. the Apostles and so is ours to groan after it and wait for it till the time of Christ's descending from Heaven to change our vile body c. To which I say and this descending of Christ from Heaven according to these mens words is not till after mens decease when they say the bodies shall be raised And then if it be the Saints part that are deceased and the part of all believers to groan after and wait for the redemption of the body as if the Saints body were not changed nor redeemed from the bondage of corruption before their decease as these men affirm where are the Saints deceased now groaning for Redemption are they with the Father in Heaven groaning for it Or are they groaning in some Purgatory between Heaven and Hell Oh! what sottishness are these men in For in the Father is rest from burthens and bondage which caused the groaning and the Saints according to their expectations and hope knew the working of the Power of God according to which they witnessed a changing of the body of their lowness as the word renders it {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} and a fashiong of it into the likeness of Christs glorious body which power these men being ignorant of they put that Redemption and the glorious liberty of the Sons of God a far of till after the decease they know not how long but their ignorance about that hath been largly manifest Again to vindicate Thomas Moors instancing for Christ's being in Heaven with a body of flesh and bones without blood in it that we do not read that there was any blood in Adam's body in Paradice To this J. Horn and T. M. say that T. Moor brought forth indeed such an observation as a conception or thought of his which rendered it probable to his apprehension that a glorified spiritual body needs not the being of material blood in it and that he reads not that Adam's body had blood in it before the fall in which he conceives what before was more purely Spirits was changed into blood and therein the body became mortal but this is but his private conception which he gives not forth as an Oracle to be believed as an Article of Faith they say Page 53. I Answer Mark the deceit and lying divinations of these men and how doubtful and confused they are in what they deliver it is known by many that Thomas Moor affirmed openly as also he hath in

Righteousness nor have any of his Righteousness in them And this is to make God account sinful men Righteous and so not to padiffere utnce between the holy and prophane which was the false Prophets practise as it is yours also who have also said that maintaining a justification by a Righteousness within is a meer Unrighteousness wherein you do no less than charg the Apostle with maintaining a meer unrighteousness for he tould them of the Righteousness of the Law being fulfilled in them who walked not after the flesh but after the spirit Rom. 8. 4. And the Saints were justified by the Spirit of God in them and had the Righteousness of faith in them so were not justified in sin but from it Acts 13 39. 1 Cor. 6. 11. Phil. 3. 9. but their state are you far from who have been pleading for sin which is your natural heritage which makes you so unwilling to part from it and you would fain be accounted righteous in Christ when you are unrighteous and deceitful being ignorant of the righteousness of God and not having it in you and so would be counted what you are not and therein are Hypocrites deceiving your selves and others And where we asked you what is the Light with which Christ Lighteth every man which cometh into the World which T. Meer said is both natural and spiritual To this you say we vary T. M's saying as you falsely say divers times we did our own Question about the Light at that meeting for you say his Answer was to our Question as thus stated what is the Light which Christ giveth And his Answer to this was that he is the author and giver of both 〈…〉 Light Reply In this have you spoken falsely on both hands for we did not then ask what is the Light which Christ giveth but whetter the Light with which Christ Lighteth every man that comheh into the World be natural or spiritual and T. M. said it is both natural and spiritual as also you have lyed in saying that we vary T. M's saying for he and you have confessed in P. 61. That the Light wherewith Christ Lighteth every man is both natural and spiritual and yet one Light that is both natural Spiritual you could not shew thus are you taken in your self contradictions and deceit And where you say that Christ is the author and giver of all that is truly called Light and good to men this is not to my Question for it was touching the Light with which Christ Lighteth every man and not touching all good that he is the author and giver of for there are many good things that Christ is the author of that are not the Light wherewith he in lighteneth every man so that you discover your weakness about the Light And where you ask where we read that the Gospel is Preached in every Creature Answ. See Col. 1. 23. in the Greek its {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} in every Creature And where you say you have answered in simplicity and p●ainnese and not with hidden things of dishonesty but by a plain manifestation of the Truth in the words of Truth have declared your minds that others when they read may understand ●our knowledge in the mysteries of Christ Herein your boasting Spirits are seen you would make men believe as if what you have written were infallible by a plain ma●ifestation of truth but presently after you say if in any thing they find you speak not according to the word let them refuseit and shew you in love by evidence of Scripture your mistake and you shall thankfully accept it you say To which I say what confusion deceit and doubting is this you are found in And what untempered stuff is this It appears by this you are not assured that your work is all in the Truth for all your boasting of your answering by a plain manifestation of Truth and of your knowledge in the mysteries of Christ and now both your lies slanders and mistakes in many things are made manifest and you may see them if you be not still wilfully hardened and many more aspersions and slanders besides those I have mentioned have you vomited out in your rage and envy against us in these your answers which will be a heavy burthen upon you when you come to be silent in darkness as the wicked shall and to reap the fruit of your doings which will be terrible to you one day And where you desire the Reader if ever he see any Reply to this of yours he would distinctly observe if we pervert not or alter your sayings by taking them in pieces and changing expressions to mar the sense c. and in observance of this caution you say you doubt not but the Reader will be satisfied even from our selves concerning our Antichristian Spirit without your adding any more by way of return to ours which though you will not bind your selves from yet you do not resolve to do though we should give you occasion by such sorry shifts and pretended Answers as hitherto we have returned you say Reply As for your suspecting us to mar the sense of your sayings by perverting them and to lie at the catch to get some matters to snarle about as you say these are your own practises and it s your own evil thoughts against us wherein you muse of us as you use your selves and that arises from the Antichristian spirit that is in you and not in us and you are the snarlers as your many lies and frequent perverting our words doth plainly shew and not we what are you afraid to fall into your own pit 2. And as for your not resolving to add any more by way of return to ours I say to what end should you add any more in return to ours for you thereby would but add more to your former wickedness and slanders and blasphemy against the spirit of the Lord which is in us which sees over your deceits and this would but ad more to your shame for your lying Books many are grown weary of them who before you vomited out your malice thus against us had a better esteem of you than now they have as also you have falsely said that we have been already proved deceivers and Antichrists which if it were so then away with your work there is no more need of it against us but your malignity and falseness herein is largly made manifest to many and you had better never have been born than have vented such wickedness perversness out of your mouths if you repent not A Brief Reply to John Horne's Book Called Truth's Triumph over Deceit c. Wherein his Deceit Insolency and vain boasting and his Triumphing in his wickedness and Lyes is plainly manifested and here reproved and the Truth Vindicated I See that the Diviners and Deceivers strive against the Truth of our God and the more their madness and folly and falshood Appears as it is evidently fulfilled

upon this J. Horn whom this his Book falsely Called Truth's Tryumph hath sought to Vindicate his own Corrupt Cause and to clear himself from what I charged against him in what I writ in that Book Called The Quakers no Deceivers the truth of which in his Pride and Deceit he hath sought to Trample under Foot but thereby hath he but more discovered his shame and Malice and folly and made Lyes his Refuge and under falshood hath hid himself as they spoken of in Isai. 28. 15. but the more he strives against the Truth the more he is ensnared and the worse his Cause appears Therefore he is not like to Prosper though he appear strongly in Contention for his Masters work which is Sin and unrighteousness So the Reader hereof may take notice of some of the chief of John Hornes matter which he hath laid down in order to his Fathers work who is the Father of Lyes and Lyars such as he is And to some of his Principal matter I shall briefly Answer from whence the Reader may easily Judge what Spirit the rest of J. Hornes Babylonish stuff in his Book came from In Pag. 3. J. Horne chargeth us with being an Envious and imbittered People who hiss like Serpents out of the holes This is one J. H. his Malitious Slanders for we are in that Power wherein we are a Torment to him and such Lyars as he is and in that we can tread upon such Serpents and not be stung though they shoot forth their stings against us In P. 5. J. H. Chargeth me with making the Asserting of the sayings of the Holy men of God a Warring for the Devils Kingdom Which is a Lye and a Slander against me for I make his perverting of their sayings in which he contends for Sin which is the Devils work to continue in all and all to be Sinners so long as they live a Warring for the Devils Kingdom since that where Sin is destroyed by Christ 1 Joh. 3. 7 8. there the Devils Kingdom cannot stand And what confusion is this J. Horne in in his Warring for this his Fathers Kingdom One while he pleads that the Prophets and Apostles had Sin in them and were Sinners so long as they lived as in Pages 5. and 26. and for it brings Ecc. 7. 20. 1 Kin. 8. 46. when at other timee both he and T. M. have admitted of a further state that the Saints attained to then being Sinners while they lived for they have said that they might have Sin in them when they did not do it and that they that were born of God could do nothing against the Truth 2 Cor. 13. 8. so that when the Saints sinned not or did not sin as they have granted then they were not sinners so in their accusing them with being sinners so long as they lived they have shewed their Deceit and confusion J. H. His Reason to prove that no man is perfectly freed from Sin in this Life is that Sicknesses Diseases and mortality that came in by Sin abides upon all men till the death yea and the bodily death that came in by Sin abides upon all till the Resurrection he saith In which he hath shewed his falshood and Ignorance for does sickness abide upon all men till death Surely then he would make all men live a sad life if Sickness be upon them all their Life time Again some of the Righteous may be Lyable to sickness or diseases through natural Causes as hunger cold outward sufferings which Christs when he was upon Earth also suffered and was subject to infirmities as they confess yet that does not Argue therefore that the Righteous are not freed perfectly from Sin in this Life no more than it Argues that Christ had Sin and the death which they dye who dye in him which is gain to them did not come in by sin but that death which is already upon all the wicked though living as also sickness may come as a Judgement upon such and to his saying that bodily death abides upon all till the Resurrection I say what bodily death then came upon Enoch Elijah or Melchizedeck for Sin and where dyed they that death Gen. 5. 24. Heb. 11. 5 2 King 2. And where I proffered to be willing to prove against J. H. If lawfully called either in the Market place Steeple house c. 1. That he J. H. is out of the Life and steps of the true Ministers and in the steps and Practices of Deceivers and so is a Hypocrite and no Minister of Christ who being a Parish Priest is Guilty of the Priests Iniquity whom he hath declared against 2. That he upholds a dead Formal Worship like the World c. 3. That his Ministry wherein he contends for Sin is Antichristian and both against the Commands and promises and Works of God and tends to the making both the Preaching and Praying of Christ and the Saints Ineffectual 4. And that he the said J. H. is a Forger of Lyes a false Accuser a Slanderer and so one of the Dragons Army who was wroth with the Woman that brought forth the Man-childe and the Remnant of her Seed that kept the Commands of God These I charged J. H. with and proffered to make them good against him to which he saith P. 6. My foolish Challenge as he calls it he shall not accept c. To which I say ah J. Horn thou wast herein touched what wast thou affraid to have thy works tryed and brought to light this sheweth thy Guilt but thou knowest I was not affraid to meet thee upon thy Challenge and to Vindicate the Truth which thou hast split thy self against for all thy boasting and what thinkest thou art thou clear from the Deceivers Practices and the Parish Priests Iniquity when thou art Preaching for Hire and pleading for it and Tythes did ever Christs Ministers plead for and take Tythes as thou hast done and dost thou not think your Steeple-house worship whereunto People are called by a company of Bells is dead and Formal and your Singing Davids words and Experiences in Rime and Meeter and Preaching by an hour glass where hast thou Scripture for these your Practices I Queried thee about them in a Paper I sent thee a great while ago which I never yet received an Answer to thy guiltiness in these and many other things plainly may be seen And in P. 6. Thou sayest thou sent me word that thou should henceforth have no more to do with me but according to the Apostles Counsel Reject us But thou may see thou hast herein Lyed again for wherefore hast thou scribled so much confused stuff against us if thou intended to have more to do with me and against me in particular hast thou shewn thy vennome the most In P. 6. Again thou sayest Thou shalt not go about to plead thy own Cause but leave it to God and rather take good Hezekiah's course when Sennacherib railed upon him that would not have him

{non-Roman} Rom. 8. 29. and was not Isaiah one of these Bretheren Who also had been as with Child Isaiah 26. 17. Jer. 30. 6. And where in P. 19. thou chargest R. H. and me with counting Christ's coming in the flesh to be but a figure in this thou hast belyed us for it was never so affirmed by us J. H. saith Some did believe in the Light before they believed that Jesus is the Christ as Nathaniel and Cornelius and divers others Answ. Where proves he that by Scripture For Christ is that Light which Cornelius and others believed in who is not devided His words here implyes as if they that believe in the Light believed in they knew not what If they believed not Jesus to be the Christ when they so believed And my saying a man must believe that Jesus is the Christ and believe in him too before he be born of God as Christ said believe in the Light that ye may be the Children of the Light of this J. H. sayes what is this but to fight against the Apostle John 1 John 5. 1. and sayes I stick not to make John a lyer P. 21. In which he hath shamefully lyed for I own what John said and I spoke according to Christ's Testimony who put believing in the Light before being Children of it for they received Christ and believed in his name that they might become the Sons of God John 1. 22. and 12. 36 So that J. H. in not owning and believing in Christ before being born of God implyes that while the birth which is of God is but in bringing forth in man before it be born man is but in the unbelief while that work of God is but in effecting and not effected which shews J. H. his ignorance of the new birth which is not conceived without faith in the Light before it is brought forth J. H. saith P. 24. That the Creatures deliverance into the liberty of the Sons of God and the Redemption of the Sainte body which they groaned and waited for Rom. 8. 19. 20 21 22 23. could not be before those Saints deceased for saith he the Apostle vers. 17 18 speaks about their sufferings with Christ and reigning with Christ and speaks of the sufferings with him as first and the reign as a thing afterward the sufferings are of this present time or life but the glory is to be after revealed and therefore spoken of as in the future to this present time Answ. Here you may see the liberty of the Sons of God and the redemption of the body which the Saints in their life time groaned and waited for and the reigning with Christ and the revealing of his glory in the Saints all these hath J. Horne put afar off as things not attained by any in this life in all which he hath shewed himself voyd of understanding and hath denyed the Sons of God their liberty and priviledges and so hath denyed the end and effect of the Saints travail and sufferings and the work of the Spirit of adoption which was sent into their hearts and of the Son of God who was made of a woman made under the Law to redeem them that were under the Law that we might receive the adoption of Sons Gal. 4. 4 5 6. and that adoption reacheth to the body of the believers and was its redemption which for a time it groaned and waited for Rom 8. and the Saints were brought to reign with Christ upon the Earth and made pertakers of his glory being made more than conquerers in Christ thorow their sufferings and even then the Spirit of glory and of God did rest upon them Rom 8. 37. 1 Pet. 4. 14. And what gross darkness is it for him to say the Creatures deliverance into the glorious liberty of the Sons of God could not be before the Saints deceased as if it were not possible to be so And whereas from J. Horn's not owning that the Saints may attain to the redemption of the body before the bodies be raised out of the grave according to his wores I said from this then Paul is not yet come to the redemption of his body which so many hundred years since he groaned and waited for seeing that the Resurrection of the bodies is not yet come Oh! how J. Horne is vexed at me ' for thus discovering his blindness as in P. 25 he shews his venome in calling us wicked and corrupt and poor shifting for he saith the Fathers that dyed in the faith received not as then the promises and that Abraham hath not yet received all the promises for which he hoped which is another case than Pauls groaning and waiting for the redemption of the body from the bondage of corruption for the Scripture does not say that Abraham groaned and travelled for that which he hath not yet received for it s said that these all dyed in the faith not having received the promises but having seen them afar oft and were perswaded of them and imbraced them Heb. 11. 12 13. but hath not Abraham now received the promises which was to him viz. seen the increase of his seed and received the Heavenly City and Country which he and the Martyrs spoken of in Heb. 11. dyed in the hope of Since th●●Abraham yet liveth and is in the everlasting Kingdome but 〈◊〉 is besides J. H. his matter about Pauls not yet being come to the redemption of the body from the bondage of corruption which so many hundred years since he groaned and waited for which bondage of Corruption J. H. and T. M. have accounted to be the Corruption of mortality in which the body corrupteth in Death and in the Grave as also they have called it rottenness in their other Book P. 48. from which it follows that Paul groaned and waited for his body to be redeemed from the corruption and rottenness in the Grave before ever the body was either Dead or laid in the Grave or corrupted there And thus their sottishness appears so that this we may lay down as their principle that the redemption of the body from the bondage of corruption which so many hundred years since Paul groaned and waited for when he lived he hath not yet attained to it Alas then they would make poor Paul have a long travail and suffering as also according to what they say in their other Book Page 47. 48. viz. That it was the Apostles part to groan after the redemption till Christ's descending from Heaven which they say is not till after the decease And whereas I said that Asa's heart was perfect with the Lord while he did that which was right in the sight of the Lord which might be all his dayes till that was written in 2 Cron. 15. 17 18 19. but not when his heart was departed from the Lord and he turned into the Rage Oppression and Persecution nor when he was in the natural state which is clear ●●cording to 2 Chron. 16. 7 8 9 10 11 12. J.

Answer to my Queries thou seemest ●o be Resolved to say something although it be absolute contrary to the Truth and to that which thou knowest to be Truth as will appear in what followes In Answer to my first thou sayst Christ in his Spirit Ascended up to Heaven when his Body was upon Earth is this an Answer to the Question is the minde or Spirit called the Son of man according to John 3. 13. which came down from Heaven and no man doth Ascend up to Heaven but the Son of man which was then in Heaven so by this thy Answer it appears then that the Spirit is the Son of man and that there is no other Son of man that Ascends into Heaven but the Spirit then what becomes of that Body thou speaks of if the Spirit onely be that Son of man In thy Answer to the 2. and 3d. Queries thou provest In thy way that Mary did that which was forbidden by Christ when she held him by the Feet and worshipped him but in Mat. 28. 9. there is no forbiding of her to touch him but this is plainly manifest that thou art in a snare and cannot tell how to get out and yet thou wilt be saying something though thereby thou more ensnare thy self but this Scripture thou wilt once know fulfilled the wicked shall be silent in darkness When thou shouldst Answer to the Fourth thou telst of its being a secret and of prying into things above what is written although the ground of my Query is grounded upon that which is written in Luke 24. 4. To the Fifth thou saist that the Women did distinguish which was Christ was certain but how they did so is a foolish curious Question what certainty is there that they did know when thou knowest not how but this is like the rest of the Priests Doctrine beating the Ayre and leaving all People in uncertainties and yet would be paid for so doing but the Lord hath made thee manifest with the rest that you cannot deceive much longer To the Sixth thou sayest the two Angels were seen visibly but were not bodies nor Persons of men but in thy Answer to the Fourth sayst that they both saw them as men and heard them speak and had two Individual Forms Now if thou were but simple and not wilfully blind thou mightst be the more excused In thy Answer to the Seventh thou art more lost and confused then in all the rest for when thou shouldst Answer who were the 11. Disciples that were met together mentioned Luke 24. 33. Thou saist that Thomas might occasionally be gone out Answ. If he was gone out then the 11. was not together as Luke 24. Again thou sayst that Matthew was chosen before the Evangelist wrote this Book what Darkness and Ignorance is this thou art not Questioned when the Book was written nor when Matthew was chosen but who was the Eleven that was together and whether was Matthew one of the Eleven seeing he was not then chosen when Christ did arise from the dead but there needs not much be said to thee onely to let thee see thy own folly least thou should say thou art wise To the Eight thou seemst to Affirm that the Scripture are to be taken as they speak and not otherwise a Mystery Answ. Then why dost thou and the Priests give meanings to the Scriptures and do not let People take them as they speak but makes them such a Mystery without your meanings and so plain with them but this is thy Practice and Doctrine to condemn thy self in the thing that thou allowest and builds again that which thou hast destroyed and so makes thy self a Transgressor Lastly in thy conclusion thou falsely chargest me that I do not believe that any of these things mentioned in these Scriptures to be really done which is not my Faith for I do believe that those things mentioned were really done and fulfilled as the Scripture speaks but it is no new thing with thee to accuse falsely and to make Lyes thy refuge but what in all those things thou hast done against me I do forgive thee and do warn thee for the time to come that thou go not on to commit the unpardonable Sin against God and his Spirit never to be forgiven Again in thy last Paper thou declarest thy Ignorance of the two Seeds and askest what be those two Seeds Answ. These two the Scripture speaks of the Seed of the Woman and the Seed of the Serpent 2. Who did or doth sow them Seeds Answ. God doth sow the one and the wicked one the oher 3. Where be they sown Answ. In man 4. When be they sown Answ. When man had a being and a body to receive them 5. What be the bodies they shall rise with Answ. Their own bodies according to their own natures the one pure and the other defiled 6. Whether be these two Seeds and two bodies in all the world or two Seeds in every man and the two bodies to or in every man Answ. The Seeds are but two in the whole world having each Seed its own body and in every o 〈…〉 e one be cast out 7. When shall those Seeds arise or be raised whether after the bodily death or after spiritual death Answ. Every one in Its own order after the death of that which is born of the Flesh and also after the death of the spirituall wickedness which is yet alive in all hirelings and Deceivers such as thou art where the Seed of God is yet in its grave 8. What are the graves these are in and out of which they shall arise These of which the Scripture speaks which when thou comest to understand it thou wilt understand both the Seeds and graves of which we speak Christ the Seed made his grave in the wicked and in the rich in his death and out of that grave shall rise with his Body into everlasting Life if thou canst receive it thou maist be satisfied And as to thy 9. Query Why I say that the one shall rise into everlasting Life and the other into Condemnation Answ. Because it is so therefore I say so and if thou say to the contrary make it manifest but in this as in other things thy folly and Ignorance is manifest to ask why I speak the Truth which thou thy self darest not to be Truth R. HUBBERTHORNE A POST-SCRIPT AND T. M. Sen. Thou hast taken a bad work in hand now in thy old age to joyn thy self and to appear so publickly with a lying Spirit as thou hast done But how wast thou liks to do better when thou hast denyed the Lord in thy turning into the way of the coveteous Tyth-taking-Parish-Priests whose deceit thou formerly hadst a sight of and in part wast made to witnes against them but that zeal and that simplicity which thou hadst then is turned into darkness and betrayed and thou become as sottish and as dark an Earth-worme as the Priests whom thou hast witnessed against And thou art become a respecter of persons and canst bow and cring under such as be great in the Earth as they do for their own ends and thou art by many taken notice of to be more sottish dead and dark since so much thou hast partaken of the Priests iniquity then ever thou wast and the same enemy and betrayer in thee and thy two Disciples viz. J. H. and thy Son leads you out to deceive others with your dreams and imaginations and to betray the simplicity and to murder the innocent in others for which you have a sad account to give and if thou returnest not to that principle which once brought thee in part to see the deceit of the Priests but continuest in thy deceit hypocrisie and accusing the innocent and so remainest in sottishness and hardness of heart thou will be cut off perish in thy iniquity in thy old age Alas What silly men are ye You are never like to gain to your selves any honour and credit among any that are honest hearted by your Books and aspersions against the poor Quakers so called for it is so common a thing for them to undergo revilings and aspersions even from the vilest of men as Drunkards Covetous Idolaters and the like that in what you have done you have not shewn your selves any whit more eminent or famous than such but have meerly rancked your selves in the Dragons Army with them in belying and slandering the iunocent THE END * Though we own that which brings them to Confesse their Lying and Faults and can forgive but we cannot own their Dissembling and feiguedness in it * which is as much as to say not Christ in them but Christ in men and that his riches is not the possession what folly is this * That which is humane is earthly as humanus homo are of hhmus the ground from whence man was taken so that a humane Soul is an earthly Soul what then hath Christ both an earthly Soul and a divine Soul in him J. H. T. M. I. H. T. M. J. H. T. M. J. H. T. M. T. M. J. H. P. 104. J. H. T. M. * But what is the beloved City and the Camp of the Saints which Gogg and Magogg do compass about when the 1000. Years are ended Revel. 20. 8 9. whether is it an outward City or not And where shall it be and whether any be yet come to that beloved City * This is another such a reason as I Horns saying that he is not a dumb dog for he could worry me c. J. H.