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A25513 An Answer to a book intituled, The doctrine and discipline of divorce, or, A plea for ladies and gentlewomen, and all other maried [sic] women against divorce wherein both sexes are vindicated from all bonadge [sic] of canon law, and other mistakes whatsoever ... 1644 (1644) Wing A3304; ESTC R11990 36,645 48

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all the unlivelinesse and naturall floth which is really unfit for conversation Some are bashfull and mute indeed but what of that you speak of triall of them whether they are fit for conversation or ●o if you would once tell what you mean by conversation I doubt there is none so modest but you may make tryall of that If you mean fit for discourse and flexible to your desires to go abroad or stay at home c. I know nothing of any modesty to hinder you the tryall of these things before mariage if you have so much time You adde ●●at there is not that freenesse of accesse granted or presum●● 〈…〉 to a perfect discerning till it bo too lat● 〈…〉 you ●ain things to your self to make good your Arguments Kings and Princes indeed usually have little accesse to 〈◊〉 Queeen or Princess● before mariage but for lower deg●ee● 〈◊〉 so much accesse is granted without any immodestie to disce●ne what you speak of You fu●●her go on and say That though they who have lived most loosely prove most successefull in their matches because their wilde aff●ctions unsetling at will have been as so many divorces to them to teach them experience When as the sober man honouring the appearance of modesty and hoping well of every sociall vertue under that veile may easily chance to meet if not with a body impenetrable yet often with a minde to all other due conversation inaccessible Modest men s●ldome deal with any who as they are not of bodies impenetrable so neither are they to all due conversation inaccessible It is true if every man were of your breeding and capacitie there were some colour for this plea for we believe you count no woman to due conversation accessible as to you except she can speak Hebrew Greek Latine French and dispute against the Canon law as well as you or at least be able to hold discourse with you But other Gentlemen of good qualitie 〈◊〉 content with meaner and fewer endowments as you know well enough Very true it is that it is not amis●e for men of the best capacities learning and breeding that they should match with those of the best wits qualitie and breeding and leave the duller Virgins for the simpler sort there is enough to own them and ordinarily they fall to their shares and that it is not alwayes so you have no need to attribute it to modestie that men doe not try their Sweet-hearts wits before they have them you know that may be done with modesty enough although to try whether their bodies are impenitrable as you call it savours of the con●●●ry Well but you goe on to make up this your second Argument 〈◊〉 the diverse evils that would follow if Divorce should not be ●●ffered for contrarietie and disagreement of mindes The first you say Is an imputation upon God and his law of dispensing with open and common adultery among his own people which say you the rankest polititian would think it shame and dis-worship that his lawes should countenance any such thing But the shewing how this comes to passe you say you will reserve to another place We answer you that we think this the fittest place for this Controversie seeing you have named it here and therefore shall free the law of God from any such imputation and clear that here which you after bring from Moses permitting divorce and the sence of Christ in the Gospell Only first we shall speak to your phrase and manner of speaking and then to the matter of it Your phrase is That such an imputation as would be cast upon the Law of God by this means the rankest Polititian would think it shame and dis-worship that his lawes should be charged with any such thing Is this the fine language that your Book is commended for Good your worship look a little upon your Rhetorick in this one piece shall I say of nonsense however I am sure it is contrary to all lawes and customes of speaking Rankest Polititian Wonderfull What a Boarish Adjective you joyne with a Polititian Polititian is a title worthie of honour and respect and why you should so disgrace it with this homely language I cannot imagine except it be because Polititians ordinarily differ from you in this your opinion For although its likely some Polititians sometimes at a time of need are content to make use of others then their own wives yet to be divo●ced from their own upon a little contrariety of mindes or dispositions Polititians will not easily agree to it But to go on The rankest Polititian would think it shame his laws c. His lawes strange Where were you bread Sir What are the lawes of your Common-wealth made only by one Polititian sure that same is a barren Countrey of Noble and Learned men And if it be not barbarous yet is it a very harsh phrase to call the lawes made in any Common-wealth the lawes of the Polititians much more of one only Polititian But peradventure you mean the King and the lawes may be called his you think If you do mean him it s no usuall phrase to call him Polititian without farther addition or if it were you know it s no good sense in your own countrey for I b●leeve you are not to heare of Qui vulgus elegerit And if you meane of some other Countrey write your Book in their language for the English will but deride such language as this is Againe He would think it shame and dis-worship say you to what say I to his lawes strange Philosophy Are lawes now capable of shame and blushing Speak a little plainer if you have any such point to broach But peradventure you meane the Polititian would think it shame and dis-worship Well but upon whom do you mean he thinks this shame and dis-worship will light for you shew us not whether the Polititian would think this shame to redound to the lawes themselves or to himself or to a third person or thing pray let 's know the next time But againe why shame and dis-worship Do the lawes or the Polititian that makes them use to be worshipped in your Common-wealth Well we leave the Gentleman of that worshipfull countrey who looks for Good your Worship at every word and Vtinam they are not too worshipfull to be W. Thus from your phrase we passe on to the matter which should be put in here for the proofe of this first evill namely that denying of divorce for cause of contrarietie of minde and disposition will cast an imputation upon the law of God of dispensing and conniving with common and open adultery amongst his own people Well how do you prove this For the proofe of this we must be driven to bring in your Text of Deut. 24.1 which as you say permits nay is a wise and pious law that such who did not love their Wives for some displeasing naturall quality or unfitnesse in her he should write her a Bill of Divorce