by Steuen Gardiner that in his boke of y e deuels sophistrie was not afraied to corrupt y e wordes of y e holy Prophet â–ª for wher as dauid had writte EscaÌ„ dedid timentibus se he doubled the pronoune and wrote it thus EscaÌ„ se dedit timentibus se. This muste nedes appear to be somwhat more then an ouersight But what nedeth mo examples Camotensis a doctour of your own saith in generall of all your syd Vim faciunt Scripturis vt habeant plenitudinem potestatis they wreste sayth he y e Scriptures violently y t they may haue the fulnes of their power ¶ Sarum BUt to auoid this authoritie sum meÌ„ of your syde haue ben driuen to erpound these plaine wordes of Gelasius in this sort Non desinit esse substatnia hoc est non definit esse accidens Euen as right as the glose expoundeth y â— Texte Dist. 4. Statuimus id est abrogamus ¶ Cole 〈◊〉 what they are that it be not thought y â— ye deuise this of your own fantasy This glose ye 〈◊〉 because ye vnderstand not y â— Glosers 〈◊〉 It may stande ful wel The Reply Sarum WHat if I should say Doctoure Cole hath expounded it so If not then I pray you imagin with your selfe howe ye may be able to shift away Gelasius otherwise Yet because ye will nedes put me to my proufes in a matter that ye knowe is plaine I pray you take the paines to read Steuen Gardiner in his boke that is answered by the Archebishop of Cantorbury Thomas Cranmer ye shall finde these wordes Gelasius saith he speaking of the bread and wyn reciteth not precysely the substance to remayne but sayeth the substaunce or nature whiche nature he calleth after the property Here by this doctoures mynde substantia is latine for propertie whyche as ye knowe is nothinge els but accidens And againe in his boke that he calleth Marcus Antonius Constantius written in latine ye shall finde these wordes Quod ait paneÌ„ in sua substantia vel natura manere vel substantiam sentit AccidentiuÌ„ vel naturae proprietateÌ„ It is a very strauÌ„g phrase of speach to say substantia accidentium But it is as straunge to say as he saith in another place Accidentia sunt substantiaruÌ„ partes Howbeit after ye had once deuised a new religioÌ„ it was mete that ye shuld deuise out also some new phrases of speache that neuer had beÌ„ heard afore And yet is not this the grossest part of your learning neither Now I trust ye se I deuised not this of myn own phantasye I marueil sum what that ye say I vnderstand not y â— Glosers meaning For me thiketh there is not so high nor misticall learninge in it but that a meane learned man may sone reach vnto it But I se it must be a desperate sore but ye will fynde sum salue for it I pray you first read the text and then coÌ„sider how handsumly the glose wil frame vnto it The text is this Statuimus vt septem hebdomadas plenas ante sanctum Pascha omnes Clerici id est in sortem Domini vo eati à carne ieiuneÌ„t Now foloweth your glose Statuimus id est abrogamus And because ye vnderstaÌ„d the glose better then I as ye say and lyke it so wel reade the texte accordingly and say thus Abrogamus vt â—…ptem hebdomadas plenas ante sanctum Pascha omnes clerici à carne ieiunent And I beleue what soeuer meaninge ye make of it ye shal make but vnhandsom latin Nowe let your reader iudge whether of vs two better vnderstandeth the glosers meaning ¶ Sarum HEre ye haue that after the words of consecracioÌ„ there remaineth in the Sacrament the substance of bread wyne Now bring ye but one doctoure that wil say as ye say that there rematnesh onely the Accidentes and shewes of bread and wine and I will yeide ¶ Cole SOft and 〈◊〉 ye hauâ—… not read y â— answer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and ye shall se more 〈◊〉 my 〈◊〉 I shal be ready for ye The Reply Sarum IF Royardes answere had been worth the hearing ye would not haue been ashamed to haue alledged his words At your â—…ue ye wil be as ready as S George a horse backe euermore ryding yet euermore standing stil ye wil be a very euill Auditour y â— lay downe so litle reken so much But bring sum olde councell or doctour with you at your cue or els folke wyll say ye haue none to bring ¶ Sarum AS touching a priuate masse Gregorye saith in his dialogues that before the tyme of the communion the Deacon was wont eueÌ„ in his tyme to crye vnto the people on this wyse Qui non communicat locum cedat alteri Who so wil not receiue let him depart and geue place to others ¶ Cole YE haue better 〈◊〉 then this I 〈◊〉 for thiâ—… 〈◊〉 some what weake The Reply Sarum WHatsoeuer thys stufe semeth to you your answer semeth to me very weak â—…f ye be no better able to answere this howe wyll ye be able to answere the reast It appeareth by these wordes of Sainet Gregory that in his time which was six hundred yeares after Christ. who so would not communicate wyth the Prist at the communion was commaunded out of the Ehurche Wherby it is cleare they had then a communion and that al the congregation present receiued together Nowe eyther shew ye me so much for your priuate masse or els say nomore this stufe is weake ¶ Sarum TO breake y â— ordinaunce of Christ and the people to communicate vnder one kinde only your owne doâ—…tout Gelasius calleth it Sacrilegium And Theophilus 〈◊〉 of y â— saâ—… matter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Si Christâ—… 〈◊〉 fuisset pro Diâ—…olo non â—…tur illi poculum sanguinis ¶ Cole THe 〈◊〉 where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this of Gelasius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should 〈◊〉 it Theoâ—… shal be 〈◊〉 when I cuine to dispute with you The reply Sarum HEre I trow your memory deceiued you ye mean the glose and not the decree For the words of Gelasius in y â— decree are plaine Diuisio vnius eiusdémque mysterii sine grandi sacrilegio non potest ê‘uenire And the wordes y â— he vseth further vt integra Sacramenta percipiant aut ab integris arceantur seme not so much to pertaine to the Priestes as to the people But ye did wel to turn ouer Theophilus vntill sum other tyme for I wene ye had no answer ready made ¶ Sarum THat the common praiers were vsed in the common knowen tonge yhaue S. Basill S. Hierom S. Ambrose S. Augustin S. Chrisostome and the Emperour Iustinian many others The plares be knowen ¶ Cole WHether the Greke and Latin tuug were then vnderstand of the common people remaineth yet vpon prouâ—…e â–ª wel I trowe S. Basill aproueth not very well Here I remain 〈◊〉 in doubt The Reply Sarum I Matueile muche that any learned maÌ„ shuld doubt at this For if the common Greke
hys collecte And at the ende thereof the whole people by y e masse boke are taught to say AmeÌ„ The priest saith the Lorde be with you the people by y e masse boke is taught to answer And with thy spirite The priest saith lift vp your harts the people by y e Masse boke shuld answere we lyfte them vp to the Lorde The priest turneth him to the people saith Orate prome fratres sorores Pray for me brothers sisters And by the verye order of y â— masse boke y e peple shuld know what he saith and at his request shuld pray for him Herby we se y t what soeuer praters be vsed about the ministration of the sacrament ought to be the commen requestes of all y â— people Therfore saith Iustinus an olde godly father a holy martyr Vbi gratias egit praepositus vniuersus populus acclamat Amen That is wheÌ„ the priest hath geuen thanks y â— who le people say Amen And ChrisostoÌ„ likwyse saith Ne mireris si populê° in mysteriis nostris cum sacerdote colloquatur Marueile not sayth Chrisostom though the people and the priest in our misteries talke together For in the commen prayers that be vsed about the ministration the priest and the people both in voyce hart shoulde ioyne together And wheÌ„ the priest hath once done the consecration the people should at his hand receiue the communion the Masse boke it selfe biddeth him to breake the breade in three parts And therof haue idle heads of late lym phansied out many misticall follies as though one parte therof were offred for them that be in heauen the other for theÌ„ that they saye be in purgatorie The third for them that be alyue These be fantasies and very folies wout any grouÌ„d ether of the holye scriptures or of the doctors or of the olde catholik church But in very dede the breaking and diuiding of the bread is a remainent of the true and the olde communion that was in vse in the tyme of the doctoures of the church and of the holy catholike fathers For to that end the bread is broken that it may be deuyded amonge the people And therfore the supper of the Lorde is called Fractio panis that is the breaking of breade Moreouer the priest by the Masse boke is taught to saye Accipite edite Take ye eate ye And habete vinculum charitatis vâ—… apti sitis sacrosanctis mysterâ—…s That is haue ye the bond of charity that ye may be mete for y e holy misteries And to whom shall we thynke the priest speaketh these wordes It were to vaine a thyng for him in the open congregation to speake to him self and specially in the plural nuÌ„ber Yet were it a great deale more vayne for hym to speake the same wordes to the breade and wyne and to say vâ—…to them Take ye eate ye or haue ye the bande of charitie that ye may be meete for the holye misteryes Therfore it is euident that these words shuld be spoken to the people And that in suche sort as they might well vnderstand them and prepare theÌ„ selfe to the coÌ„munion And to conclude the priest by his own Masse boke is bidden to say these words immediately after the. Agnus Dei Hec sacro sancta coÌ„mixtio consecratio corporis sanguinis domini nostri Iesu Christi fiat mihi omnibus sumentibê° salus mentis corporis That is to say this commiâ—…tion and consecration of the body and bloud of our Lorde Jesus Christ be vnto me and to al that receiue it health of body soule Thus in the masse boke it self which as I said afore is the verye rule and direction of the Masse if it were vsed accordingly we fynde a Communion for the whole congregation to reteine together no priuate masse Perhaps there may be sum that wyl say we graunte these things be spoken of the coÌ„munion in the old doctors but there be as many thinges or 〈◊〉 spoken by them of the priuate masse and all that you dissemble and passe by I knowe such replies haue bene made by diuerse But good bretherne I wyll make it plaine vnto you thorow gods grace by y â— most auÌ„cieÌ„t wryters that were in and after the Apostles tyme and by the order of the first primitiue church that then there could be no priuate masse and that who so would not communicat with the priest was then commaunded out of the congregation In the canons of the Apostles there is a decree made against al suche as would be present at the communioÌ„ and yet not receyue the sacrameÌ„t The words be these Fideles qui in ecclesiaÌ„ ingrediuntur scripturas audiunt et communionem sanctam non recipiunt tanquam ecclesiasticae pacis perturbatores à communione arceantur That is suche christian men as come to the churche and heare the scriptures and receyue not the holy communion let them be excommunicated as men that disquiet the whole Churche Calixtus a Bishop of Rome not long after the Apostles tyme geueth out the lyke commaundement in y â— same behalf His words be these Peracta consecratione omnes communicent qui noluerint carere ecclesiasticis liminibê° sic enim Apostoli statuerunt sancta Romana tenet ecclesia That is when the consecration is done let euery man receyue the communion vnlesse he will be put of from the entry of the churche For this thyng haue the Apostles ordeyned the holy churche of Rome continueth the same S. Chrisostom vpon the epistle of S. Paule to the Ephesians sharpely rebuketh the people for refrainyng the holy Communion Thus he saith Nones dignus communione ergo nec precibê° Qua ratione preco dicit abite tu vero imprudenter perstas Thou wilt say saith s. Chrisostome that thou arte not worthye to receyue the Communion Then art thou not worthy to be present at the comen praiers The deacoÌ„ saith vnto you that will not coÌ„municate geat you hence and yet thou lyke an impudent man standest stil. S Gregorye in his dialogues shewed the maner of the CoÌ„munion in his tyme to the like purpose Diaconus clamat si quis non communicat exeat locum cedat alteri The deacon saith S. Gregory speaketh out a loud Who so will not communicate let him departe awaye and geue place to others This was the order of the olde tyme. The DeacoÌ„ gaue warning to the people Exeunto catechumeni Exeunto paenitentes Let such as be yong nouices in y â— saith go forth let such as are in theyr pe naunce go forth That they that might not communicat with the reast shoulde departe from the church not be present at the coÌ„munion And this order continued still vntill the tyme of S. Gregory which was sixe hundred yeares after Christ. Who was there theÌ„ that consecrated the bread wine and receyued altogether to hymselfe alone where then was the priuate masse where theÌ„ was the single
an heretike 〈◊〉 knowe there is sumwhat besyde in S. Augustin in s. Hierome in S. 〈◊〉 c. I beleue more then Royarde or Tapâ—… could euer answer Ye knowe that ye your selfe in your last answer graunted me y t the exaÌ„ples of y â— primatiue church are of our syde therfore ye rest 〈◊〉 an 〈◊〉 point that the Primitiue churche in the Apostles old doctours tyme was but an infant and a babe in comparison of your Church of Rome Therfore me thinketh sauinge that it was your pleasure ye were sumwhat ouer seen to say that all our allegations may be couched in syxe lines But as I haue offred you ofteÌ„ times bring ye but two lines of your syd and the field is yours ¶ Sarum YEt lest I should seme to flye conferece and trial which in dede in this case I most desire or to folowe you in discourtesy I will perfourme sume part of your request although in dede it be vnreasonable ¶ Cole IT is no discourtesy to refuse to do that wherwith I might forfeit my recognisaunce The Reply Sarum YOur recognisaunce doth you good seruice to saue your credit ye fly away like a faint Souldiour and yet hold vp your shield as if ye wer fighting still ¶ Sarum AGainst your new deuise of transubstantiation besides manye others whoÌ„ I nowe passe by ye haue y e olde father and doctour Gelasius whose iudgement I beleue ye wil regard y t 〈◊〉 because he was sometymes a Bishop of Rome which See as ye 〈◊〉 taught 〈◊〉 neuer erre And is alledged in y t decrees his wordes be plaine Non desinit esse substantia panis natura vini ¶ Cole I Se 〈◊〉 ye write much and read litle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is ful answered by Tapper in articulo de 〈◊〉 Ye alledge his words otherwise then ye find them Which fault I trust goweth 〈◊〉 ouer sight The Reply Sarum HOwe are ye so priuie to my reading â–ª Wyse men auouch no more then they knowe ye lackte shift when ye were driuen to wryt thus I assure you I haue not been so slacke a student these xx yeares but that besydes other old wryters of diuers sorts Grek and Latine I haue not spared to reade ouer euen suche as haue wrytten of youre syde as 〈◊〉 Pigghius Hosmasterus 〈◊〉 Hossius and suche others and yet vmil this day I neuer set abroad in prynte xx lynes But this is youre olde wont to make the people thinke that we reade nothinge els but. ii penny doctoures as ye call them As in the disputation at Westminster ye would seme to stand in doubt whether we were able to vnderstande you or no when ye speake a little Latine and as of late ye doubted not to saye that mayster doctour Martyr was not ablâ—… to make a Sillogismus which thing in dede is as true as the rest of your religion But I praye you what had Stephen Gardiner red when he alledged the third voke of S. Augustin de sermone domini in moâ—…e and yet S. Augustin neuer wrote but two What had the same Stephen Gardiner rede when he alledged Theophilactus and called hym Theophilus Alexandrinus who was before Theophylactus well nere fyue hâ—…ndred yeres What had doctour Smith of Dron red that openly in the disputatioÌ„s there An. Domini 1554. alledged the couâ—…cell of Nice to proue the phansy of your transubstantiation and when he came to shew the place was not able to fynd one worde other in that couÌ„cell or in any other of antiquitie that might seme to make for it What had he red that being a Judg in y â— same disputations cried out so bitterly vpon y e man of god the Archebishop of Canterburie and that foure or fyue times together osteÌ„de mihi qualis corpus fuit qualis corpus fuit was not hable to vtter his mind in coÌ„grue latin This thing I trust ye wil recorde with me for it was spokeÌ„ in your own hearing Your importunitie hath caused me contrary to myn own nature to vtter these things which otherwise I coulde haue conceiled O bost not â—…our self to much of your great reading When ye bring me any olde Doctour or councell for your purpose in the matters y e we now talke of then will I saye ye haue read muche As for Gelasius how soeuer it pleaseth D. Tapper to coâ—…tue him he sayeth plainly that in the Sacrament there remaineth the substaunce and nature of breade and wyne But ye say I alledge Gelasius otherwise then I fynde him and hereof your frends haue made much a do I se it muste be a very small fault that shall escape your eyes Gelasius wordes be these Non desinit esse substaÌ„tia panis vel natura vinâ—… Which words hauing not the boke at hand I re ported thus Non desinit esse substantia panis natura vini I besech you howe far went I 〈◊〉 from the words or from the meaning of the authour I se it was not for nought that childreÌ„ in the Scholes were wonte to fynde a difference betwene these two proposicions comedi bis paneÌ„ and bis panem comedi But I perceine the faut was such that ye were loth to make mater of it If I had altered any part of the sence and meaning of the wryter I trow I had ben lyke to heare more of it I remember what a clappinge of handes and stamping of fete ye made at Oxen. agaynst that notable godlye learned man the Archebishop of Cantorburye for that he alledging a place oute of Saint Hilarie had chaunged but one letter and wrytten verò in stende of verè Ye triumphed ouer hym and poynted hym to the people and called hym a falsarie a wrester a corrupter of the Doctours And yet afterward it was founde and wil yet appere y e two of your owne doctours Steuen Gardiner Smith in their owne printed bokes had chaunged the same letter written vero aswel as he Howbeit God be thanked ye will not geue me cause to fynde such fault with your allegations for ye are able to alledge nothing at all But it were to loÌ„g to shew how many times and how shamefully the wryters of your syd haue corrupted the old doctours Yet for example sake of a great nomber to shew you one or two how thinke ye by your doctour Pighius that violeÌ„tly altereth both the words and the meaning of S. Augustin For where S. Augustine wryteth thus Quid tam grate offerri aut ab illo suscipi potest quam caro sacrificii nostri corpus effectum Sacerdotis nostri meaninge the Sacrifice that Christ offered vpon the Crosse. Pighius putteth in of hys own A nobis which S. Augustin had not and made vp the sentence of this sorte Quid tam gratè offerri à nobis aut ab illo suscipi potest quam caro sacrificii nostri corpus effectum Sacerdotis nostri and so perforce turned it to the pretensed Sacrifice of your masse How thinke ye
require you to no greate paine one good sentence shal be sufficient You would haue your priuate masse the Bishop of Romes Supremarie the Commen prayer in an vnknowen tongue and for the defence of the same ye haue made no sinal adoo Me thinketh it reasonable ye bryng sum one authoritie beside your owne to auouche the same withall Ye haue made y â— vnlearned people beleue ye had al the Doctours al the CouÌ„celles fiften huÌ„dred yeres on your side For your credites sake let not all these great vauÌ„ts come to naught Where ye say ye are in place of a learner and gladly cum to be taught you must pardon me it semeth very hard to beleue For if you were desirous to learne as you would seme ye would cum to the Church ye would resort to the lessons ye would abide to hear a sermon for these are the Scholes if a man list to learn It is a token the scholer passeth 〈◊〉 for his Boke y e wil neuer be brought to Schole Ye desyre ye may not be put of but y t your suit may be considered And yet this half yere long I haue desired of you of your bretheâ—… but one sentence and still I know not how I am cast of and can get nothing at your handes You call for the speciall proufes of our doctrine whiche would require a whole Boke where as if you of your part could vouchesaue to bring but two lines the whole matter were concluded Yet lest I should seme to flie rekening as ye do or to folow you in discourtesie I wil perfourme sum part of your request although in dede it be vnreasonable Agayust your new deâ—…se of traÌ„substantiatioÌ„ besides many others whom I wil now passe by ye haue the old father doctour Gelasius whose iudgement I beleue ye will regarde the more bicause he was soÌ„time bishop of Rome which See as you haue taught can never 〈◊〉 And is alleaged in the decries his wordes be plaine Non desinit esse substantia panis natura vini It leaueth not to be the substance of bread and the nature of wine But to auoid this authoritie sum men of your side haue ben forced to expound these words in this sorte Non desinit esse substantia hoc est non desinit esse accideÌ„s It leaueth not to be the substaÌ„ce of bread y t is to saye it leaueth not to be the accidence or the fourme or the shape of Bread A very miserable shift Euen as right as the Scholie expoundeth the Text. Dist. 4. Statuimus id est abrogamus Yet doctor Smith of Oxford toke a wiser way For his answear is that Gelasius neuer wrote those wordes and that they hange not together and that there is no sence nor reason in them Here haue you that after the coÌ„ secration there remaineth the sub stance of bread and Wine Now bryng ye but one doctour that will say as ye saye that there remayneth only the accidentes or shapes of bread and wyne and I will yelde As touching a priuate Masse Gregorie saieth in his dialogues that before the time of the CoÌ„munion the Deacon was â—…oute in his time to crie vnto the people Qui non communicat locum cedat alteri who so will not receaue the Communion let him departe and giue place to others To breake the ordinaunce of Christ and to communicate vnder one kinde only your own doctour Gelasius calleth it SacrilegiuÌ„ And Theophilus Alexandrinus sayeth Si Christus mortuus fuisset pro Diabolo non negaretur illi poculum sanguinis â—…f Christ had died for the Deuil the cup of the bloud should not be denied him That the CoÌ„men prayers were vsed in the commen tongue you haue S. Basil S Hierome S. Augustin S. Chrisostome Saint Ambrose and the Emperour Iustiniam the places be knowen You see I disaduantage my self of many thinges that mighte be spoken For at this present I haue no leisure to write Bokes Now must I needes likewyse desire you forasmuche as I haue folowed your minde so far ether to bryng me one olde doctour of your side or els to giue vs leaue to thinke as the trueth is ye haue none to bryng You desire vs to leaue 〈◊〉 agaynst you and no more to 〈◊〉 so 〈◊〉 with you in the pulpittes O maister Doctour call you this vnmercifull dealyng when you were in authoritye ye neuer coulde call vs other then â—…tours and heretiques and yet besides all that vsed our Bodies as you know We only tell the people as our 〈◊〉 is that you withstand the manifest trueth and yet haue nether Doctour nor Councell nor Scripture for you and that you haue shewed such extremitye as y â— like hathe not ben sene and nowe can giue no rekenyng why Or if ye can let it appeare You saye our doctrine is yet in doubt I answere you to vs it is most certein and out of all doubt But if you for your parte be yet in doubt reason and charitie would ye had bene quite resolued out of doubt before ye had dealt so vnmercifully for it w t your brethern You are bound you say may not dispute yet god be thaÌ„ked you are not so bound as ye haue bouÌ„d others But I wold wish y t Quenes maiestie wold not only set you at 〈◊〉 in that behalf but also commaunde you to shewe your groundes But when ye were at liberty â–ª and a free disputatioÌ„ was offred you at Westminster before the Quenes most honorable couÌ„cel the whole estate of y â— Realm â–ª I pray you whether parte was it that then gaue ouer And yet theÌ„ you know ye were not bound Ye say ye remayne still in the faith ye were baptised in O good maister doctor stand not to much in that point You knowe ye haue alreadie for saken a great number of suche thinges as were thought necessarie wheÌ„ ye were Baptised and yet be sides that how many times haue suÌ„ of you altered your faith within the space of twenty yeares Remember your self who wrote the Boke A. De vera obedieÌ„ â–ª tia against the Supremacie of Rome B who commended it with his preface C who set it forth with solemne Sermons D who confirmed it with open othe You haue ecclesiam Apostol â–ª cam ye saye and we haue none Nowbeit in all these matters that we nowe entreat of we haue as you know must needes confesse the olde doctors church the auntient Councelles Church the Primitiue church S. Peters church S. 〈◊〉 Church and Christs Church and this I beleue ought of good right to be called the Apo stelles Churche And I 〈◊〉 mutch that you knowing ye haue none of all these yet should say ye haue ecclesiam Apostolicam Where ye say ye make no innouation it is no marueile for in manner all thinges were altered afore to your hands as may most â—…uidently appear by all these matters that be nowe in question betwene vs wherin ye
haue a rule of your lawe possessor malae fidei nulla temporis longinquitate praescribit And therfore Christ in the case of diuorse rested not vpon the custoÌ„ that was theÌ„ receiued but appealed vnto the first institutioÌ„ of mariage and folde the Pharisies theÌ„ as we nowe tell you A principio non fuit sic It was not so at the beginning Wheras ye say I mistake your law I graunt it is possible I may so do as well as you Nowbe it I am weâ—…assured in this place I mistake it not I would to God you being a doctour of the law did no worse mistake the Scriptures ¶ Sarum NOw if ye thinke ye haue wronge shew your euidence out of y â— Scriptures the Doctours or Councels that 〈◊〉 maye haue youre right againâ—… and so reenter I require you to no gret paines one good sentence shal be â—…ent Ye would haue your priuate massethe Byshoppe of Romes 〈◊〉 the commen praâ—…ers in an vnknowen tongue and for defence of the 〈◊〉 ye haue made no small a do me thinketh it were reason ye should bring sum authoritie besides your own to auouch the same withal Ye haue made the unlearned people beleue that ye haue all the doctors al the counsels and. rd 〈◊〉 yeres of your syde For your credites sake let not al these great baâ—…tes cum to noght ¶ Cole IEnter no suit against you and it were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shew my euidence vntill it may 〈◊〉 and take place I crâ—…ue only to be 〈◊〉 which I can not obtaine when I coÌ„mence law against you then this speach may serue you to sum purpose The Reply Sarum IF you will not prosequute your suite it is reason ye be cast in a non suit But ye do best to make a delay for ye know ye haue to do 〈◊〉 theÌ„ that haue sene your euideÌ„ce Ye saye ye kepe your proufes vntil some better tym when they may serue and take place When Pompei a noble gentilman of Rome was marching forth to fight in y t field against his enemy Iulius Cesar and â—…ato an olde graue Senatour one of the same partie had shewed him he wâ—…ted men tushe quoth he I shall haue men inough for as sone as I shal but stamp the grounde with my force ye shal se spring up a swarm of Souldiers Afterward wheÌ„ the field was sought Pompei discoÌ„fited and began to flie with much dishonour O sir said Cato where is now your promisse why stamp ye not the ground when shall we se your swarm of souldiers euen somay I say to you notwithstanding your great vauntes that ye haue made ye se nowe ye are discomfeited ye se the field is al most lost where are now your crakes of doctours and councels Why stampe ye not your bokes why cum ye not forth w t your euidence Now ye stand in nede of it nowe it will serue and take place if ye haue any But ye learned this pollicy of your Tully Scitum est saith he causaÌ„ coÌ„iicere in teÌ„pus cum adferre plura cum velis non queas when ye haue no more to say it is wisedom to lay the faut in time Sarum WHere ye say ye are in place of a learner and gladly cum to be taught ye must pardoÌ„ me to saye the trueth I taken your very frendes in this point wyll hardely beleue you For if ye werde â—…rous to learne as ye would seme to be ye would cum to the church ye woulde resort to the lessons ye would abyde to hear the SermoÌ„s for these are y q scholes if a man list to learne It is a token the scholer setteth little by his 〈◊〉 y t will 〈◊〉 be brought to 〈◊〉 ¶ Cole VVHy I cum not to your Sermons thys question is captious and yet ye are 〈◊〉 discharged why 〈◊〉 should not 〈◊〉 me As men chouse their wiues so chouse they theyr teachers S. Augustines and S. 〈◊〉 Sermons 〈◊〉 more to teach then to conuince The Reply Sarum I Meant not to be captious but onely to put you in remeÌ„braunce that your pretence of learninge is but femed that you are not in dede so willing to be taught as ye would seme to be Whensoeuer ye shall shew me by your lawe that a man may be required to proue a 〈◊〉 negatiue I wil be content to confer with you and to shewe you the reast of my prouâ—…es Ye say ye chouse your teacher as men do theyr wiues many meÌ„ are led by folly phansy in chousing theyr wyues I woulde your luk should be better in chousinge your teacher But S. Paule prophesied in his time y t there should come scholars with titling eares chouse them selues teachers according to their owne appetites y t shoulde turne away theyr eares from the trueth and geue themselfe to the hearing of fables The Prophete Esay saith there were scholars in his time that woulde saye to their teachers Loquimini nobis placentia videte nobis errores Auferte a nobis viam declinate semitaÌ„ cesser à facie nostra 〈◊〉 Israell That is speake to vs suche things as may like vs See vs errours leade vs out of the waye bring vs out of the path Let vs haue no more of the holye God of Israel before our face And shal I thinke you chouse me for loue as men do their wyues I can as yet litle finde it in your talke But because I came nere to the matter and with my negatiue declared y e weakenes of your syde more then some others did therfore ye brake out first vpon me laid in a claim without euidence And hauing nothing to say ye would seme to haue somwhat As women y t woulde seme to be with child sometimes rear vp their bellies with a cushion ¶ Sarum Yâ—… desire ye maye not be caste of but that your suite may be 〈◊〉 And yet this halfe yere long I haue 〈◊〉 of you and all your brethren but one pore sentence and still I know not how I am cast of and can get nothinge at your â—…andes ¶ Cole VVE stand not in case like What 〈◊〉 so much ot one thing The reply Sarum YE are much beholdeÌ„ to your recognisauÌ„ce ye make much a do and yet bring nothing ¶ Sarum YE call for the speciall proufes of our doctrine which thing requireth a whole boke Wheras if ye of your parte would bouchsafe to bring but two lines the whole mater were concluded ¶ Cole 〈◊〉 that I required may be couched in 〈◊〉 and for ought I see in lesse to The reply Sarum LEt the rest of youre trueth be tryed by this Ye knowe that the olde father Theodoretus had more then sixe lynes of oure syde and therfore D. Clement tare the whole plate out of his boke and burnte it thinking there had ben no more copies least perhappes it â—…hould cum to light Ye know that Occam one of your owne doctoures hath more then sixe lynes against you And therfore the last Pope condemned him as
syde against theyr Princes But as I then neuer liked theÌ„ that drew their sword against their souerain eueÌ„ so now I pray god coÌ„fouÌ„d theÌ„ whosoeuer they be y t shal first begin the same What lawe ye ministred vs in those dayes I remit it vnto you that are a lawier But I am well assured ye shewed vs neither diuinitye nor humanitye But I pray you what law had ye to imprison sutche euen as had broken no lawe and so to kepe them in your cole houses in stokes and fetters with all extremitye and exueltye vntil ye had made a lawe for them and to do with them as Cyril saieth the Jewes did with Christ primum ligant deinde causas in eum quaerunt â–ª prius captuÌ„ habent quà m accusatum First they bind him fast saith Cyrill and theÌ„ they deuise matter agaiust hym They lay handes vpon him before any man accuse him What law had ye to burne the Quenes subiectes handes w t candelles or torches before they were condemned to dye by any law What law had ye to ascite a man to appeare peremptoriè at Rome within lxxx dayes and yet that not withstanding to kepe him still in prison in Oxforde and afterwarde for not appearinge at hys day at Rome to condemne hym there as obstinate Or what law had ye to put the same man to death against the expresse wordes of your own lawe after he had subscribed vnto you and was founde in no relapse I trust ye can say some what herein For that you being then a lawier and in commission had the execucion of y t law But I beleue when ye haue searched your bâ—…kes through ye shall fynde ye had not so much law as they that sayd Nos habemus legem secundum legeÌ„ debet mori Sarum WHere ye say our doctrine is yet in doubt I assure you to vs it is most certain and out of doubt But if ye for youre part be yet in doubt reason and charity would ye had been better resolued and qyut out of doubt before ye had dealt so unmercifully with your brethren ¶ Cole I Doubted more theÌ„ I do now ye geue me good cause to be well confirmed The reply Sarum THis is a faire shift of retorike when other help faileth you Euen thus the Pharises after they had ben loÌ„g in a mammering and in doubt of Christ at the last were fully confirmed and out of doubt and saied vnto him 〈◊〉 scimus te habere daemonâ—…um As if they shoulde then haue sayed vnto Christ as you say nowe to vs we doubted more before then we do nowe for nowe ye geue vs good cause to be well confirmed â–ª But if I haue confirmed you bringynge such proufes as ye are not able to answer how then thinke ye haue others cause to be confirmed at your handes that haue vsed suche extremity and yet ar able to bring nothing at all ¶ Sarum YE are bounde ye say and maye not dispute yet are ye not so bounde as ye haue bounde others But when 〈◊〉 wer at libertie and a 〈◊〉 disputation was graunted and offered at Westminster before the Quenes maâ—…esties moste honorable councell and the whole state of the Realm I pray you whether part was it that then gaue ouer And yet the ye knowe ye were not bounde onlesse it were to â—…lence because ye had nothing to say ¶ Cole AT Westminster we came to dispute were answered that there was non appointed wher we refused not to write neyther But when our boke could not be read as yours was we refused not vtterly to dispute but onely in the case if oure boke could not be suffered to be red as indiffereÌ„tly as yours was Now hardely weigh whether ye haue indifferently reported that we vtterly refused to dispute with you or no. The reply Sarum YE could not lightly haue gotten so many vntruethes together without sume stâ—…y Where ye saye ye were answered there was no disputation appointed at Westminster if I should aske you who made you that answer I rekeÌ„ ye would be to siek For I trust ye haue not yet forgotten that ye your selfe were the first man that began to dispute there that day spake there an whole houre together without interruption But I marueil ye say not that we of our part gaue you ouer and refused to dispute Ye say ye refused not to wryte your allegacioÌ„s and answeares as ye had promised to do and earnestly required it might be so and yet contrary to your request and promise ye could not begotten as ye know to writ one line Ye saye your boke could not be read as ours was yet ye knowe ye had no boke there to be read at all as we had As for the indifferent ordering and hearing of the matters I remit that to them that wer the orderers of it of whom ye can not in any wise complain but both your own and the hearers consciences must nedes accuse you The order of the disputaâ—…ion was that both partes shoulde the fyrst day bring in their assertion al in writing and that the nexte day eyther party should answer the others boke and that also by wrytig which was your own request as it wil apperre by your protestation sent to the councell in that behalfe The first day ye came without any boke at all contrary to the order taken and also as I haue sayd to your own request The second day ye refused to procede any father and stode onely vpon this point that onlesse ye might haue the last word ye would not disput For ye said whosoeuer might haue that wer like to discedere cum applausu for these very wordes two of your own company vttered in latin euen by the same termes as I do now Otherwise ye sayd ye would not dispute Which answer was so vain that not onelye y â— rest of the hearers but olso y â— Bishop that theÌ„ was of Yorke your own frend fouÌ„d faulte with it and was ashamed of it bad you procede In conclusion contrary to al meÌ„s loking for onely vpon your refusall the disputacion was sodenlye broken of And I am contente to stande to the iudgement of all the heaâ—…ers herein whether I haue reported indifferently or no. ¶ Sarum YE say ye remayne still in the faith ye wer baptised in O maâ—…ter doctour stande not to much vpon that point Ye know ye haue already forsaken a great number of thinges that were thought necessary when ye were baptised And yet besides that how many tymes haue sum of you altered your faith within the space of xx yeres Remeber wel your self who wrote the boke de vera obedientia against the supremacy of Rome Who commended it with his preface Who set it forth in solemne SermoÌ„s Who confirmed it with open othe ¶ Cole VVHat one thinge am I gone from ye saye muche and proue little Ye meane the 〈◊〉 Bishop of winchester who repented at the
kepe it in their chests nor that it shulde be sent home to new maryed men and wemen to be receyued in seuerall nor that it shuld be ministred to babes and infa◅tes that knewe not what it ment nor that Inchaunters or Necromansers shoulde therby auaunt their detestable practises nor y t men shoulde therby discharg them selues from slaunder nor that it shuld be hanged before mens brestes and caried about as a shielde against the Deuel nor that it should be ministred vnto dead men or women ◅losed vp in theyr mouthes layd with them in theyr graues But y t such as bare the name of Chryst trusted to be saued by his bloude shoulde communicate together solace them selues in the remembraunce of his death This Christ himselfe hath instructed vs ▪ do this he saith in remembraunce of me Thys is the very true lawfull vse of the holy Communion of Christes body and bloud and all others are abuses We se therefore that albeit the sacrament be an holy thinge and an heauenly mistery yet that notwithstanding it may many waies be abused But what nede we so manye proues in a thinge that is so euident Saint Paule hymselfe saw the abuses thereof in his tyme. S. Paule hymself euen in the beginnyng of the Churche wythin forty yeares after Christes death withnesseth that euen then there were abuses crept into y ◠sacramēt and therfore repro◅eth the Corinthians And for redresse therof calleth them backe to the example fyrste institution of Christ. That same selfe thyng sayth he that I receyued of the Lord that I delyuered vnto you in suche sort as I had receyued it Let that be a paterne for you to folow Summe man perhappes wil heare reply notwithstanding the sacrament in it self either through the wickednes or through y e foly of man may be and haue benabused yet neyther was there euer nor can there be any such abuse in the masse For it standeth of foure special parts godly doctrine godly consecration godly receyuinge of the sacrament and godly prayers In conclusion it is so heauenly so godly a thing that no foly or wickednes can enter into it These thinges good brethern I know haue ben oftē times spoken out of such places as this is stoutly auoutched in your hearing And therfore after that the masse had ben once abolished by y ◠noble prince of godly memory kind Edward the sixt the next prince for that she knew none other religion aud thought well of y e thyng that she had ben so lōg trained in would nedes haue it put in vre again through all her dominions it was forthwith restored in lyke māner in all points as it had ben vsed before without any kynde of alteratiō or chaung as I beleue that theyr verye doinges therein might stand for proufe sufficient that neyther the masse it selfe nor any parsel or point therof had euer ben abused But alas what if they that most of all other defend the masse thēselues fynd faultes and abuses in y e masse Mark I pray you what I say what if the very mainteyners and proctours of the masse confesse plainly vnto the worlde in theyr bokes openly printed set abrode y t there haue ben be abuses errours in the Masse Albertus Pigghius the greatest piller of that parte in a litle trea◅ise that he writeth of the Masse hath these wordes Quod si qui abusus in rem sacratissimam saluberrimam irrepserunt vt irrepsisse plerosque non diffitemur scimus ad quem ad quos pertineat eosdem corrigere That is to say if there haue certein abuses crepte into y ◠holy and holsom thing that is the Masse as I graunt there haue crept in very manye yet we know to what man men the redresse thereof doth apperteine Here Pigg◅ius graunteth simply wythout colour that diuerse abuses haue at sundry tymes priuily crept into y ◠Masse And yet I beleue he was no such enemy to the cause that he would euer haue graūted somuch specially against y e same self thyng that he defended vnlesse he had knowen it perfectly to be true It any man doubt of this man Albertus Pigghius and knowe not hys authority nor what he was let hym vnderstand y t when I speake of him I speake of all for thys is he that all the rest haue chosen to follow as their captain The greatest learned mā as it is supposed and as he hymselfe thought that ◅uer wrote in y ◠quarrell He hath founde out errours and abuses in the masse and is not abashed opēly to confesse the same Of these errours I haue intended sumwhat to intreate at thys tyme not of all for that would be an infinite labour but of so many and so ta◅eforth as the tyme shal suffer me I wyll not here enter to speake eyther of transubstātiation either of the real presence eyther of y ◠sacrifice eyther of the comen sale or vtteraunce eyther of the superstitious ceremonies of the Masse which are for the most parte both verie vayne and also in maner wythout number Of these thinges I am content to disaduauntage myselfe at thys tyme and bryefly to touche two or thre pointes as of the latin tong wherin commenly the masse hath ben vsed of the Communion vnder one kynd of the Canon of the adoration of the sacramente and of the priuate masse And of these things I intēd to speak although not so largely and with so manye words as y ◠cause would require yet by Goddes grace so simply so truely that who so will be moued with truth or reason shal sone perceiue there hath ben abuses in the Masse And if there were but one of these abuses in it yet were it worthy to be spoken of and to be amēded But if we shall plainly see with our eyes that all the er rours disorders besyde a great number els whyche I wyllingly passe by haue ben in the masse O good bretherne let vs not then thinke that so many godly men in these our dayes haue spokēagainst it without cause First as touching y ◠vnknow◅n and straung tong y t hath ben vsed in the Masse S. Paules counsel and commaundement is in generall that what so euer is done or sayd in the congregation shoulde so be done and sayd that the hearets may haue confort thereby yelde thankes vnto God and saye Amen But the same saint Paul saith if thou make thy prayer in y ◠congregation with thy spirite or noyce of a straung wordes howe shal the vnlearned man thereunto saye Amen For he knoweth not what thou sayest For not withstādig thy praier perhappes be good pet hath the other no cōfort or profit by it And therefore he saith ▪ farther I had leuer vtter fyue words in the congregation wyth vnderstanding of my meaning so that the reast may haue instructiō therby then ten thousand wordes in a straunge knowen tong Saint