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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A33979	A supplement to a little book entituled, A reasonable account why some pious nonconforming ministers cannot judg it lawful for them to perform their ministerial acts in publick solemn prayer, ordinarily, by the prescribed forms of others : wherein is examined whatsoever Mr. Falconer in his book called, Libertas ecclesiastica, and Mr. Pelling in a book called, The good old way, have said to prove the ancient use of forms of prayers by ministers : and it is proved, that neither of the two aforementioned authors have said anything that proveth the general use, or imposition of such forms of prayer in any considerable part of the church, till Pope Gregories time, which was six hundred years after Christ, nor in any church since the reformation, except that of England, and (which is uncertain) some in Saxony.	Collinges, John, 1623-1690.; Falkner, William, d. 1682. Libertas ecclesiastica.; Pelling, Edward, d. 1718. Good old way.	1680 (1680)	Wing C5343; ESTC R18940	53,644	120

Reading the Scripture Singing of Psalms Prayers and Adlocutions These he will have to be Biddings of Prayer the Deacons saying Let us pray then telling them what they should pray for So then Preaching was no part of the Sabbath-days Service which I should rather understand by Allocutiones considering that there is a book called Dies Dominica so abundantly proves it and we have such plentiful proof of it from Chrysostome Justin Martyr c. But a thing never thought on by Christ or his Apostles Bidding of Prayer that forsooth must be made one of the parts of the Sabbath-service Most ridiculous But in all this good Reader consider what little of proof there is besides the Authors Questionless and without doubt Cyprian speaks of solemn things Offices he puts in and are there no solemn things but Prayers made by forms He hath sursum corda And do not those who pray by no forms ordinarily begin with Let us lift up our hearts to God Cyprian saith they pray continually and earnestly and might they not do so without a book Origen saith they used Prayers appointed but doth he say the words they should use in those prayers were also set and appointed them Origen reciteth a form of three lines and he might for ought we know or say to the contrary both make it and use it but is it proved that the Church generally used that form His interpretation of the Petitions mention'd by Tertullian as part of the solemn Service of the Sabbath to be Collects is a new whimsi of our Authors and I think his Exposition of Tertullians sine Monitore is as new and precacious for Tertullian's preces delegatae they signified all the prayers which the Congregation put up to God by their Ministers delegated and instructed to speak to God in the name of all the people who upon this account by Greg. Naz. is said to have had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a kind of Mediatorship between God and man he being the peoples mouth unto God There was then in the Church-Meetings but one voice heard 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith Chrysostome Homil. 36. in 1 Cor. That is There ought never to be but one voice in the Church He that readeth readeth alone and the Bishop saith he is in the mean time silent He that sings sings alone and when all sing together 't is all as one voice c. Our Author in the last place spends much Paper upon a quotation from Justin Martyr It is too long to transcribe p. 62. he comes to his Collections from it 1. He saith the Catechumeni were taught to pray the congregation of believers praying with them he would have them taught to pray by the Deacons admonishing them to pray Admonishing whom did they think we admonish those not admitted yet into Church to pray in the solemn Assembly of the Believers Surely the latter and they told them the general matter of Prayer This certainly concludes they had no stated forms of words which they used and might use no other So fair a proof is this 2. In the next place he collecteth that the Catechumeni did in a form make confession of their faith What is this to the purpose 3. In the third place he gathers from Justin Martyr that the Catechumeni were brought from the water to the congregatiou and Sermon ended they went jointly to prayer So then they had a Sermon and prayers after it but how doth it appear this was by a form of words from which they might not vary Questionless saith our Author it is pretty that he should think his Questionless should make a good argument But he hath found the form in Clements Constitutions a book not heard of 300 years after Clements death out of what hole soever it is now come All he saith else is no more to the purpose than that Prayers being ended they saluted one another with an holy kiss they received the Sacrament and prayed again and praised God in a copious and large manner by their Minister And these prayers being concluded the people jointly cryed out Amen What proof there is for forms of prayer comes out of the forged Constitutions of Clement and this Authors strong fancy not out of Justin Martyr and our Author p. 62. confesseth Justin Martyr tells us no such things but yet he saith They did it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Cyril he talks of as so ancient was an Author lived near 500 years after Christ and was not like to know so exactly what was done in Justin Martyrs time Any writer now would be lookt on to give a very incertain account of what was done in England Anno 1200. nor would any give much credit to what he should write It is a great vanity men have when they are eager of a thing to fancy all they meet with to look that way if they do but see a word or a letter or two of that nature I knew a Dignitary of our Church who was strongly conceited against the Morality of the Sabbath and therefore was engaged to put another sense upon the fourth Commandment or to leave us but Nine Moral Precepts in the Decalogue He at last finds in Origen and Epiphanius a place or two where Christ was call'd The great Sabbath and presently writes a book about a new 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mightily triumphing That he had found out Gospel in the midst of the law The sense of that Commandment was nothing else but remember to sanctifie the Name of Jesus Christ When alas the old Fathers meant no more than that Christ in whom alone is rest for our souls was typified by the holy day of rest appointed by the law and though Christ be our rest our great rest yet he is not a day of rest which is that which the Commandment only speaketh of Just so I observe it is in this Controversie Some men are so mightily zealous for stated and universally imposed forms of prayer that where-ever in any of the Ancients they meet with the words Liturgy Offices Common-prayers Prayers solemn Services they presently think they have a full proof for forms of prayer composed by others to be used by all Ministers When as alas there 's nothing more weak and ridiculous and these arguments speak nothing of reason but only a fancy disturb'd by unreasonable passion A Liturgy signifies nothing but an order of Ministration in holy things which may be without one form of prayer only directing the time or times when the Ministers shall pray Offices in the ancients signifies no more than Duties The approbation of the term Offices to forms of prayer to be used at Burials Christnings c. is but a very modern Popish Device to suggest to silly souls that Ministers did not do their duties if they did not use their Missals and Rituals c. and surely Prayers and solemn Services may be without forms and so may Common prayers too I am the more confirmed in this by what our

A Supplement TO A LITTLE BOOK ENTITULED A Reasonable account why some pious Non-conforming Ministers cannot judg it lawful for them to perform their Ministerial Acts in publick solemn prayer ordinarily by the prescribed Forms of others Wherein is examined whatsoever Mr. Falconer in his Book called Libertas Ecclesiastica and Mr. Pelling in a Book called The Good old way have said to prove the ancient use of Forms of Prayers by Ministers And it is proved That neither of the two aforementioned Authors have said any thing that proveth the general use or imposition of such Forms of Prayer in any considerable part of the Church till Pope Gregories time which was six hundred years after Christ nor in any Church since the Reformation except that of England and which is uncertain some in Saxony Multa videntur dicuntur quae non sunt LONDON Printed in the Year 1680. COURTEOUS READER ALthough where the question is about the lawfulness or unlawness of any action the pleading of Antiquity be a great impertinency and if the Plea be true it can rise no higher than a presumptive argument and be so far from a demonstration that it is not a good Topick for there is no prescribing to error So that nothing can incline the scale of Conscience in which every one is obliged to weigh every Proposition relating to his practice but his apprehension of the revealed will of God either from the letter or reason of Holy Writ yet because every one is not thus spiritually instructed and it makes a great noise to hear men talking That the Church in all ages all the Fathers judged otherwise than these men and if it were true in any case it ought highly to oblige all Dissenters again and again to examine those arguments upon which they have founded their particular practical judgment I who know the world too well to believe all that I read in mens Books have thought it reasonable to examine what Mr. Falconer and one Mr. Pelling have said to prove the pretended antiquity of forms of prayer as generally used or required to be used by Ministers in their publick Ministrations as to Prayer I the rather did it because truly Mr. Falconer hath said as much as hath been said on that argument or as that Cause will bear The Reader will find Mr. Pelling hath added little but words I must profess to my Reader there appears to me no shadow or pretence of proof of the matter in question till Pope Gregory and Boniface's time more than 600 years after Christ nor do I believe any can be made to satisfie any inquisitive man I leave it to thee to judg whether I have not given a reasonable answer to any thing brought by these two and shewed that they have made no proof that can satisfie the conscience of any man of any reasonable understanding and thinks the thing is unlawful if indeed it were a thing granted indifferent these little flourishes might do something but the conscience of a good man judging a thing unlawful from grounds of Scripture and Reason cannot be dispossessed of that judgment by any thing but by Scripture and Reason and though the general judgment of the Church might stumble him if his opinion were contrary yet that general judgment must be proved not meerly talkt of and plainly proved too before it can have any operation at all Now whether either of these Authors have done this I leave thee to judg The one of them is very confident and can speak nothing of this nature in a lower stile than with questionless doubtless without all doubt The other though much more modest yet possibly hath some freer and smarter expressions in his Pages on this Argument than in any other part of his Book But my humour is always to suspect a soft place in that part of any Book where I meet with most confidence or passion Reason is so beautiful and noble a thing that it needeth not the service of passion or paint of confidence It commends it self to the next rational soul it meets with without any such black patch or foot-boy at its heels I will freely tell thee my opinion about forms of Prayer in publick Ministrations not imposing upon thee with any such thing as questionless and without doubt I do believe that forms of Prayer are very ancient that is that there were by some good and pious men forms of Prayer made both for their own publick use and for the private instruction of others and teaching them to pray without forms I do think that our Saviour Christ made the Lords-Prayer for the temporary use of his Disciples not so as to oblige them to use no other or to use that Sillabically but to pray for those things either in those words or other words and that they might for a time use that very form particularly until his Resurrection and Ascension after which I believe they were obliged to a more particular mention of his sacred name I believe that forms of Prayer were much more in use before the pouring out of Gods Spirit in the days of Pentecost than after for although the effects of that effusion of the Spirit were some of them peculiar to the Apostles such as speaking with Tongues Miracles Healing c. yet from that day to this I believe from Zach. 12. 10. there hath been a more full effusion of the spirit of grace and supplication upon all both Ministers and people than ever was before generally Notwithstanding which in regard that until men come to believe and be Christians indeed they have not the Spirit of God and even then the Spirit of God works in them by the use of means I do believe there were many forms of Prayer made by good men teaching beginners in Christianity how to pray and what to pray for I am not difficult to believe that many both Ministers and people in those days might make use of such forms till their exercise in Scripture and in the ways of God rendred them as to them needless and turned what were before helpers into hinderances of Devotion But I believe it cannot be proved that for more than 400 years after Christ any one Church commanded her Ministers generally to use such and no other in any part of their publick ministration though possibly some particular men that had not the gift of Prayer or at least feared themselves or suspected they had it not might use some forms made before by themselves or some others Pope Gregory the Great who is commonly call'd the worst of all that went before him though the best of all the Popes that followed him I believe was the first that commanded the general use of forms of Prayer by Ministers in their publick Ministrations Platina saith thus of him What should I speak more of this most holy man for all the ordering of the Ecclesiastical Office especially the old one was by him invented and approved Haec in Canonem redegit

the most orthodox people and it would be enquired in England at this day whether there be more Socinians Pelagians and Papists amongst those that adore the Liturgy or amongst those who have no kindness for that or any other Let but the understanding Reader judg of all the rest he saith by the truth of this In the next place he saith it cannot be denied but Liturgies were in use in St. Basils and St. Chrysostomes time generally who were about 380 years after Christ and why cannot this be denied because he saith Liturgies are extant under their names This learned argument will prove that there were also Liturgies in St. Marks St. Peters St. James and St. Andrews time for there are Liturgies out also under their names yet this is all this Author hath to say why no body should deny what he saith as if there were not 100 books extant under the names of the Ancients which not only Rivet and Cocus amongst the Protestants but Possevine Sixtus Senensis Erasmus and Bellarmine amongst the Papists have denied to be theirs men all as learned as our Author I have before shewed that the Liturgies going under their names could not be theirs The noble and learned Lord of Mornay whom our Author sometimes speaks highly of l. 1. de missa cap. 6. saith Liturgies has omnes falsi postulo I charge all these Liturgies as false In both of them as was said before is the hymn 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which came 200 years after into the Church in both Confessors are mentioned whose names were not known of many years after in both the Virgin Mary is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a term not admitted in common use till after the Council at Ephesus 436. In both of them there is Incensing Many other reasons the Reader may find in Morney in the Chapter before quoted c. But faith our Author Though we do not think that these are the very same which they used because later ages have defaced them and foisted many heterogeneous things into them yet 't is Ridiculous to imagine that St. Basil and St. Chrysostome did not compile any or that nothing of these was of their composing And what if they did compile some doth it therefore follow that they required all Ministers in their Diocesses to use them But the truth is this is a ridiculous argument to prove they compiled any because some go under their names and a ridiculous answer to men proving the forgery of those pretended Liturgies from the use of terms not known in their Ages of rites mentioned in them which confessedly came not in of hundreds of years after they were dead and of Prayers found in them for a Pope and an Emperor that lived 500 years after they were dead I say it will appear to answer all this a most silly and ridiculous trifling to tell us It is true some things are foisted in since but 't is manifest they made Liturgies and some parts of those Liturgies How is it manifest Good Reader observe what possibility of proof there is that these men made no such Liturgies if this will not it lyes upon them to prove they did make some They produce Copies divers Copies we peruse them and find 1. That no two of them agree each with other 2. That the Doctrine in the Copies is contrary to the Doctrine of those times 3. That there is in them Prayers for men that lived 500 years after they were dead 4. That there are in them many rites and modes of worship not known of hundreds of years after they were both dead But yet saith our Author ' t is Ridiculous to think these Fathers did not make Liturgies or that nothing of these was of their composing yea 't is ridiculous to assert any thing in them was of their composing for what is there to prove it Those parts which the Papists and some Protestants say are foisted in come to us upon the same Tradition that the other parts do What one thing is there in any of these Liturgies which none but Basil or Chrysostome could be the Author of If others might be the Authors and that 500 years after how doth it appear that Basil or Chrysostome must we are sure they were no Authors of a great part what but a foolish fancy can make us believe they were the Authors of any part of them But the truth is this is the Papists answer My Lord of Morney quotes Espenceus de missa privata p. 220. It was saith the Jesuit Leo Thuscus that wrote the Scholion of the Priests communicating alone he lived in the year 1170 and was Secretary to Emanuel the Great Emperour and Interpreter to Trithemius Did not he make the whole Liturgy and had respect rather to his own times than Chrysostomes Which saith he I mind you of not that I think that Missal unworthy of Chrysostome or the Greek Church or do otherwise suspect it but think it began and composed by a most holy man and enlarged by putting in many things according to the variety of times As much might be said for the Antiquity of the Alcoran in which are many things of Primitive truth though Mahomet hath put in a world of fooleries and wickedness and doubtless the whole is of no Primitive authority though there be much Primitive truth in it From hence our Author rises higher to tell us of St. James and St. Marks Liturgies and Clements Constitutions for the two first I have said enough before For Clement chuse Reader whether thou wilt believe the D. of Somersets Chaplain or Eusebius and Hierome who lived above 400 years after Christ and knew of no such book as Clements Constitutions see Eusebius l. 3. cap. 32. See also what Morney saith of this l. 1. de missa p. 46. cap. 2. He that will believe all in Bibliotheca patrum hath more faith than I have or any Protestant can have But he will at last come to authentick Testimonies that will satisfie any indifferent man p. 56. if compared with the Liturgies that is with the forgeries aforementioned that such and such forms were used by Christians in the first ages and so that in all probability they were directed by the Apostles or Apostolical men Vsed is not enough if he could prove it they must be universally used or required to be universally used But let us hear what proof he hath Cyprian speaks of solemn Offices solemnibus adimpletis that must be understood of customary forms of Prayer and why because he elsewhere hath sursum corda Lift up your hearts We lift them to the Lord. In another place he saith they prayed for several things continually and earnestly and these he saith no doubt were charitable forms used in Morning and Evening-Service Origen saith they used 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 appointed Prayers Origen quotes a form of three lines Questionless this was in the Alexandirian Liturgy Tertullian mentions Dominica solemnia and tells us of four parts of it

and ignorant as to the generality of their Ministers they made it their business to put out and put in to the Writings of the ancients what they pleased to forge Writings to be theirs which were not so and suppress others that were so which is evident from the Writings of Papists as well as Protestants Sixtus Senensis Possevine Bellarmine were all Papists so was Erasmus Rivet and Cocus were Protestants they have all books extant to teach us to distinguish betwixt the true Writings of the Ancients and those pretended to be theirs but not so And there is no doubt but it was through meer carelesness if they left a word or line in the ancients against any point of Doctrine any way of Worship any Rite or Ceremony in credit at Rome or used in their Church 5. From them came Justin Martyr Ignatius Clement Tertullian Ambrose Augustine in short all the Writings of the Fathers we have except possibly some two or three of the Greek Fathers yet the most famous and common Editions of them are all Popish and come out to us with their puttings out and puttings in what they pleased 6. From hence will appear what little credit is to be given to any thing in any of the books published under their names any further than it is agreeable with the Scripture and bottomed there 7. Allow me the Editions of the Fathers and Councils which the Papists have let us have I hardly know one Doctrine of Popery or one Idolatrous or Superstitious Practice Rite or Ceremony at Rome but I will bring as good proof for as either Mr. Faulconer or Mr. Pelling have brought for the Antiquity of forms of prayer generally used 8. From hence it follows that those who lay such stress on this point of Antiquity in the case are but doing the Papists work laying a foundation for the Papists to build all their abominable Doctrines Idolatries and Practices upon and he is half a Papist that is resolved to believe all those things true which may be found in the ancient Writings as we have them We have so much charity for those great and holy men as to believe they never wrote any such things though some Popish Monks and Fryers have fathered them upon them 9. If any will yet believe what they find in their Works as we now have them he stands obliged not to do it rashly but to read 1. what both Papists and Protestants have wrote as to that book of theirs out of which the Quotation is 2. Then to consider what was the signification of the words Liturgy Merit Offices and an 100 more in that age and whether we have not put a new sense upon them not known in their times 3. To consider how far in the judgment of Protestants the Church was corrupted in the times when those Fathers wrote 10. This I take to be a tedious work the Prophet Isa 8. 20. hath taught me a nearer and safer course To the law and to the testimony if they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them Does any say but how will you know the sense of the Scriptures I answer from my own conscience and reason comparing things spiritual with things spiritual and hearing the judgments of others before I determine Will they say but you may be deceived it is true so might the Fathers but in things necessary if I use prayer I have a promise The Spirit shall lead you into all truth I am sure I can from Scripture be as certain of the Will of God in any case as I can be that any one leaf of the Fathers were ever written by them and if it were I am sure they were fallible men as well as I and in many things did err The pressing and laying so much stress as men do some men on authority and antiquity is in truth nothing but a mighty facturing for Popery and it is impossible but learned men must understand so much Besides not one often who talks so much of the Fathers and antiquity regards what Edition he quotes or makes use of and all know that where there is one of the Ancients to be got so much as of Erasmus his Edition who was a Papist but seemeth just and honest there are ten of filthy and most corrupt Popish Editions where the Reader can safely trust nothing And thus much shall serve for Mr. Pelling for I am not concerned as to what he saith for the English Liturgy let it be as fine a thing as it will if it be unlawful for me to use any in my Ministration in prayer it is most certainly unlawful for me to use that and at that boundary I stick till better reason than I have yet met with removes me from it FINIS For the Reverend his very Worthy Friend c. SIR YOU must think me either very regardless of the Obligations you have laid on me or which I had rather chuse very inconcerned in the New Argument for Forms of Prayer from Matth. 26. 44. that I should put you to the trouble of a second Letter to mind me not to overlook it and particularly to give you my thoughts upon it Indeed Sir the Argumentation from it savours fo little of a Scholar or a rational man that I did not think you in earnest But calling to mind that the Gentlemen we have to do with think they have a conclusive argument in the case from the ●… Apostles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 command that prayers should be made for all men 1 Tim. 2 which surely may be made by each Minister for his Congregation and shall not need be prescribed in a book and what your self told me that you heard a late Bishop of Bath and Wells say That it was very probable that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Parchments left at Troas which St. Paul took such care Timothy should bring were the Church-prayers or Liturgy forgetting as you well note that there St. Paul prayed some time without them I began to assume some more deliberate thoughts of that Text Mat. 26. especially reading what you write that you had once met with it in Print and had often heard it in Sermons and Conferences For Sermons men now-a-days use more Rhetorick than Logick but methinks in Prints and Conferences they should be more Logical Let me therefore consider the Text Mat. 26. 44. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we translate it saying the same words so saith Mark 14. 39. Luke mentioneth but one prayer Now Sir how 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 can be translated the same words judg you it must be the same word if any thing ●nd we know though our Saviours prayer were very short yet there was more than one or two words in it But Sir this Topick speaks either a very great ignorance or a wilful design to lead others to mistake in those that use it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not signifie always a syllabical word but the thing

was from it both all her Reign and after that all King James his Reign is too sad a story to repeat Whereas had it pleased God so to have moderated the spirits of our Bishops in the beginning of her Reign that they had only composed a Liturgy and left Ministers to a liberty as in all other Reformed Churches it is all had been quiet It is very like that the most of the Ministers at that time being very little practiced in Praying or in Preaching would have used and been studying to pray without it and long ere this we might have had flourishing Church shining in every corner with a Ministry that needed no book to have told them the words and syllables they must put up their prayers to God in When on the other side these contests about this thing have carried some few into great extremes on both sides Some on one side thinking that there is no true Prayer but by the Liturgy at which they are very devout but studying to shew all manner of slight and irreverence at other prayers believing them no true worship of God no whole-faced Son of the Church must use any prayer in his family no Lady or Gentlewoman any other prayer in her Closet but this Common-prayer It was a great objection against a person of great Honour and Piety appearing for Knight of the Shire in his County though he constantly attended publick prayers and received the Sacrament as constantly that he used fanatick Prayers in his family that is his Chaplain there prayed not by the publick forms at all times This madness not to say profaneness by the way is to us a sufficient argument against our use of any set publick forms in our Devotion we ought not to nurse up people in these most erroneous conceptions to speak no worse of them If people will adore humane constitutions at this rate they must be to us Nehushtan On the other side this madness hath run some to that excess that they will allow no forms to be lawful of any use in any time for any persons their children must not learn the Lords Prayer nor a form of Catechism none must hear a form c. But the number of these is very small and their judgment is as invaluable Forms of prayer are lawful useful many a good man learns to pray by a form as Scholars learn to write by their Masters first guidance of them and holding their hand They are useful and lawful for Devotion for persons that have not an ability yea for Ministers in that case The people always pray by the form of him that ministreth The Minister doth well if he can do no better he conducts the people that they may in faith say Amen he guides himself But if he have an ability otherwise to do we cannot think he doth his duty and we are sure every Minister should have an ability from himself both to pray and preach How hard it is to keep out of extremes I challenge any to shew me how our judgment thus stated and opened dissents from the Revelation of the Will of God in Scripture or of any valuable persons in the Church of God in any age § 18. It is an easie thing for men to talk of all the Fathers and the Church in all ages but it is an hard thing for those that talk at this rate to prove what they say in any tolerable measure A man is right in his own cause until his neighbour cometh and searcheth him out When men have worn out their tongues and pens in writing and speaking vain words they will be found to have spoken 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the words of men puft up with a desire to prove some unproveable thing or with an opinion We will not say our opinion is infallible but we will in sincerity say it is what we cannot dispossess our selves of by any ratiocination within our selves or with others Some will say we have a liberty to use our gifts before Sermons in our Families in our Closets the Vanity of that is shewed But is not the Administration of the Sacraments a great piece of our Ministry what liberty is left us as to that or by what rule are we restrained in any part of our Ministry or how long shall we have it in any allowing this principle We owe no such Idolatrous Reverence to any Father or Person or Church as to take their judgment against the plainer letter or Reason of Scripture this were to set up one higher than the highest no nor to practice any thing upon the recommendation of men or in obedience to them contrary to what our consciences tell us is the Will of God in Scripture This were not to set up man above God possibly but above Gods Deputy in our souls All the Reverence we can owe to man in that cause is to examine our opinion to the utmost again and again to compare things spiritual with things spiritual But if after all our Consciences say It is not lawful to the utmost we can discern it is not lawful Though as to the reality of the truth of the notion it is not all one yet as to our practice it must be all one as if God said from Heaven It is not lawful for you But in the present case there is no other prejudice appears against us from the judgment of the Church in former ages than what was against the whole Protestant Religion objected by Harding It is not probable that God would leave his Church in Errors a thousand years We confess the judgment of what the Papist calls the Church for a thousand years is in a great measure against us But so it was against many points of the Protestant Religion Bishop Jewell durst not make his challenge for more than the first 500 years to them to shew any one point of their new Creed maintained in We make the like challenge as to this point of the lawfulness of forms of prayer to be universally used by Ministers or imposed upon them It certainly robbeth God of the most natural proper Calves of our lips and makes our lips but Ministers to offer up others sacrifices when we have a male in our own flock § 20. I shall conclude with the Reformed Church in Holland I have not seen their Agenda but I am assured by a Reverend Divine Pastor of one of those Churches in England that they are not so tyed up but that they have a liberty in all parts of their publick worship to use their own prayers and do accordingly use it And this I take to be enough to have spoken on this Argument until I hear what will be said against any thing here spoken WHen I had finished this discourse I had an intimation given me of something spoken upon this Argument by one Mr. Pelling Chaplain to his Grace the Duke of Somerset in a book called The good old way Though I was pretty well satisfied that I could

find in it nothing new but words and confidence yet for the satisfaction both of my self and my friend I procured the book in all haste and read it with as much greediness though with no great expectations as thinking it a barren subject out of which little Reason would grow but what we before had reapt and proved nothing but fallacy and falshood and for which little varnish of authority could be procured but what we had washed off with a cloth wetted in a very small degree of learning I read it from the first to the last line upon this Theme I at first observed that all which he pretended to was That forms have been allowed and used which may be granted without the least damage to our cause who do not argue all forms unlawful no nor all forms of prayer unlawful no nor the use of forms of prayer unlawful nor the use of all forms of prayer in praying unlawful but the use of forms of prayer for all men ordinarily and that in publick solemn prayer To prove which he hath not said a word but yet seeing he will not speak to what he should if he intended to speak any thing to the purpose let us consider what he hath spoken to his own purpose He will prove he saith p. 49. That set-forms of Divine Service were of use amongst the Jews 2. That set forms of Divine Service were of use also amongst the Primitive Christians 3. That after our blessed Lords ascention in that Interval betwixt the burial of the Synagogue and the setling of the Christian Church set-forms of Divine Service were allowed also even by the holy Apostles Three great undertakings Et quae non viribus istis conveniunt But if they were all proved would no more prove That it is lawful for all men ordinarily to perform their Ministerial Acts in Prayer by the prescribed forms of others than it would prove that it were lawful or not lawful for all particular men and women to marry or not to marry because marriage was lawful amongst the Jews and amongst the Primitive Christians and in the interval he talks of or that it was not lawful for some persons to marry in all those periods both which Propositions are true But let us see how he proves what he propounds to prove be it what it will And here we might have expected a Scriptural proof for the first and second of his periods and the third too at least the greater part of it falleth within the time of which the holy Scripture giveth us an account But alas of this we have very little and what we have of another nature is Apocryphal and proves nothing but to such credulous souls as will believe any thing which they read in any trifling Author 1. As to his first Period from the beginning of the world till Christs time I admire at the confidence of the Author to urge the Jewish worship as a pattern to Christians when he knows that Worship and Discipline were the two things which Christ came to alter and although he retained Prayer and Praise parts of natural worship and Exhortations which were all used amongst the Jews yet we find no forms of words in Prayer used by the Jews the retaining of which he directed Nor did he use or retain instruments of Musick in the worship of God nor did the Primitive Christians for Justin Martyr Qu. Resp 107. tells us That they looked upon the use of musick as a childish service of God and therefore used it not only plain singing 2. It lies upon him to prove that no Priest or Levite in the Jewish Church might use any forms of prayer or blessing but those he mentioneth in their ordinary publick Service and when he hath done that we will take the same argument and prove That neither the Disciples did nor any Christians ought to use any Prayer but the Lords Prayer because Christ hath said When you pray say or pray after this manner 3. Admit they did not this will only prove either that we must use no other or that we may use forms of prayer directed by God himself or by his holy Prophets or other Penmen of Scripture But it will not prove that all men either must use or may use forms of prayer never prescribed by God nor by any men to whom God had given authority to make forms of prayer or praise for his Church Surely it is no argument If we must or may use a form of prayer or praise directed by God or Christ by David Asaph Moses c. then we must or may use forms of prayer made by Pope Gregory Pope Boniface or by St. Basil or Chrysostome and it is impossible but men of learning must see the inconclusiveness of this Argument only they must say something and ad populum phateras any thing will serve those that understand not None that I have met with will say that we must in praying or blessing use the forms of prayer and blessing used in Scripture and no other So then they only say we may use them It is granted and what wonder is it if we may use such forms of words in prayer as are directed by Christ and those servants of his whom he appointed to write the Holy Scriptures for us which is the rule of all our Actions and contain all that we are to believe to pray for and to do though we judg it yet sinful for all Ministers to tye themselves to forms of prayers made by men that could never pretend to such an authority to guide the Church as to what is to be believed prayed for or done but only to rule it by seeing the Laws and Ordinances which Christ and his Apostles have given put in execution especially considering that neither Christ nor his Apostles whose proper offices it was to direct all things of lawful and necessary use in the Church ever did any such thing But after this Pope Gregory comes up and he forsooth thinks it fit to enjoyn such a thing Or admit it were Basil or Chrysostome 200 years before him which we do not believe the case is the same though not so scandalous I shall have done with what our Author saith as to his first period only minding him this is shooting at rovers and will never hit any mark but that which is in very ignorant and childish persons heads It is an arrogating the same power for the Governours of Churches since Christs and the Apostles times to ordain in matters of Worship which they had which is the same argument the Papists bring for their unwritten Traditions If I had a mind to discover mens infirmities I could take notice of many mistakes of our Author in this Paragraph but this is not my business 2. I proceed to his second Period where he saith That prescript forms of worship have been established for above these 1200 years last past no learned man can deny he delivereth himself in this bold