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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A88697	Lanseter's lance, for Edwards'es gangrene: or, A ripping up, and laying open some rotten, putrified, corrupt, stinking matter in Mr. Thomas Edwards his Gangren, or book intituled, The second part of Gangrena. Wherein, amongst others, he hath abused and belied Mr. John Lanceter, calling him pedler, and saying, that he opened the whole book of Ezra, at a privat meeting in stead of opening his pack, which is proved false, and other things also. So that in consideration of the particulars, judicious men may well conceive the cause of his Gangren to be his blind ignorance of the truth, and his mad malice against the wel-affected conscientious people. Published according to order.	Lanseter, John.	1646 (1646)	Wing L425B; Thomason E354_17; ESTC R201101	16,213	24

from whom I had the relation and I believe that they are able to make it good well saith Mr. Lanseter I pray you tell me their names or shew me the letter I know not where to finde it saith Edwards but I will when I have time look for it Sir saith Mr. Lanseter I am able to prove that there were not such things as you have related here It may be saith Edwards you are not the man Then it was testified that there was no such name in Bury beside him and therefore he was the man that they meant Moreover saith one present Mr. Edwards if one should write false things of you and then say he did not mean you he meant another would that excuse him and if he be not the man who is Then saith Mr. Edwards No it may be you are not the man neither is your name so but you come in his name for I have been served so by divers before now Saith Mr. Lanceter Sir it may be you have but my name is Lanceter and I dwell in Bury and I am the man and there is no other of that name How shall I know that saith Edwards another that stood by said I know the man and his name is Lanseter and he dwels in Bury and moreover I know the man to be an honest man and he tels you his name but you have set no name to the relation and I have ground to believe that which Mr. Lanceter saith is true but therefore in the meane while your letter that hath no name will go under the notion of a Libel You say here I am a pedler It s well known I am no pedler but I served to my Master a Mercer 11. years and a halfe and do keep shop in Bury but let that passe saith Lanceter you say that I opened the wh●l book of Ezra at a private meeting in stead of opening my pack Sir this is untrue also as those that were there present can justifie Saith one by what a base abuse is this that you should call him pedlar in such a disgraceful manner I know him to be a Shop-keeper in Bury And to say he opened the whole book of Ezra at a private meeting in stead of opening his pack what should his pack do at the private meeting Then said Lanseter you say that I condemned all the Ministers of the Church of England for the Sanballats and Tobiases of this time Sir I did not this is false also but suppose saith Lanseter that I had what evil had I done Then you had done very wickedly saith Edw. deserved to be called in question for it and its the Sectaries that hinder reformation and not the Ministers of the Church of England Saith another that stood by what was Sanballet and Tobias were they not hinderers of the blessed work And what are the Ministers of the church of England are they not hinderers also of the blessed work of reformation And had Sanballet and Tobias any calling And what calling have these any at all yea saith Edwards that they have You must go to Roome for it then saith the party No not so saith Edwards yea but you must saith the party or else you will have no calling at all did you ever read Mr. Samuel Rutherfords book there he fetcheth his Church and ministry from Rome Then Edwards refused to reason with him about it Neither have you speld my name right for it should not be Lansister but Lanseter Lans If these things which you have here related be false which I am able to prove to be so I pray you vindicate me in your next fruits that you set forth But Mr. Edwards would not assent unto that then said one by to Mr. Lanseter Mr. Lanseter seeing that Mr. Edwards will not vindicate you in his next fruits upon your proving the relations to him to be false which is a very reasonable request of yours Now you know what you have to do even to publish your own vindication to the world as publikly as he hath cast aspersions upon you After this Mr. Lanseter went into his own Country againe sent up his vindication the observations that he raised from some part of the first Chapters of Ezra at a private meeting that so reasonable men may judge whether the things therein are truth or no Then some of his friends went againe on the 27. of July to Mr. Edwards to know his resolution whether he would deliver up the names of the parties from whom he had the relation and the name of the messenger that brought it but in stead of doing it he shewed himselfe agrieved that the party demanding it came with 2. or 3. witnesses and fell a rayling on them saying you bring here 2. or 3. witnesses I know your way of lying Then said the party Tax us if you can with lying in the least yea in the least with any one lye if you can Then saith he I desire to talk no more with you nor to have any thing to do with you you may be gone I will not have any thing to do with you nor do I desire to meddle any more with you But saith another to Mr. Edwards we will have to do with you as a lyer and a slanderer Now here followeth the substance of what Mr. Lanseter spake from Ezra Chap. 1. verse 1. at the private meeting of honest men in Bury about the begining of march last 1645. which was written by Mr. Lanseter himselfe and sent up to some of his friends in London who now have thought it meet to set it forth to the view of the world that so the well affected may judge of it and see if it deserve those aspersions and censures which Mr. Edwards hath cast upon it in his second part of Gangrena The substance of what was spoken by me JOHN LANSETER at a meeting of honest men in BURY about the beginning of March last 1646. AT our first meeting in the morning when there were about twenty come together after some discourse among us those men who had appointed the day made the motion to begin the work that they came to doe to which I answered on this wise and said Friends I was invited to come this day among you and I am come but I desire to acquaint you what my end is namely this I cannot joyn with you in this duty to keep it as a day of humiliation for I have had very little warning but I can joyn with you in prayer judging you godly men but you may according to your purposes goe on in the duty and I not be prejudiciall to you To which they agreed and then questioned among themselves who should begin and agreed upon it to perswade me to begin To which I answered and said Friends I think it not convenient for me the duty and day being appointed by you and I being different from you in some things I think it were fit for some of you to

according as I propounded before I began so I did after I had done that if there were any thing to be objected against there was free liberty for any to speak and no man objected against any thing Reader NOte that whereas Mr. Edward hath set down in his second part of Gangrena that at this meeting one of Mr. Farcloths congregation opposed Mr. Lanceter and that God was so mightily with him that it turned to the shame and reproach of this Lanceter and those who adhered to him This is very false And Mr. Lanceter spoke since with the two men of Mr. Faircloth congregation whose testimonies concerning this matter are sufficient to disprove Mr. Edw. his relation in the sight of the Sun which testimonies taken before witnesse Mr. Lanceter hath also sent in manner and form as followeth This 23. of June 1646. one of the auditors of Mr. Faircloth said to me before two witnesses at Newmarket that he had indeed spoke of thee Meeting to some of his friends but he never said to any man that I opened the whole book of Ezra or that he said to any that he did oppose me for said he I spake not a word to you nor did any man there in his hearing or that I compared the Ministers of England to the Sanbalats and Tobiahs'es The other Auditor of Mr. Faircloths on the 25. of June said before two men to me that he never spake word to any man of the meeting neither did he oppose me and I heard saith he nothing to be objected against Severall observations gathered from some observable expressions in Mr. Edwards book called The second part of Gangrena The first expression of Mr. Edwards in the beginning is A fresh and further discovery of the errors heresies blasphemies and dangerous proceedings of the Sectaries of this time 1. Observe Mr. Edw. his policie in beautifying his book in the beginning with such high expressions as if hee would possesse men at the first sight that there was never the like heard of and this occasions the sale of his book amongst the Sect of Antichristian Presbyterians 2. Observe how he goeth about to work in mens understandings as if he were an infallible man and holds no errors but would cleare himselfe of all and lay all upon those that dissent from him 3. Observe how that Mr. Edwards hath also a stronger desire to discover the weaknesse of those that are godly then to discover the wickednesse and abominations of Drunkards and Swearers and Idolaters and Superstitious persons and of Witches and hee makes no mention of these I marvell he hath not the Art to find out Witches he hath other Arts. 2. Mr. Edwards to the Reader speaking of Mr. Goodwin calls him A hairy rough wild red man an uncircumcised Philistin GOLIAH GOODWIN 1. Observe the strength of the mans malice to one who is known to my selfe and to a great part of the kingdome to be a man of worth a man of great parts a man who hath held out more light to others then many others have done a man who hath given clearer testimony of his godlinesse then Mr. Edwards hath done as far as I and many more can see for the present yet see how Mr. Edwards is pleased to use him even worse then hee ought to use a heathen see how he scoffes at his person which I suppose all that know Mr. Goodwin and Mr. Edwards will prefer Mr. Goodwin to be the comlier man 2. Observe how bold Mr. Edwards is to take upon himselfe to sit in the room of God to judge the heart of Mr. Goodwin which none can nor ought to doe but God alone 3. I am confident saith he that among all the Presbyterian Ministers and chiefe Members who endeavoured and acted for that way since Presbyterians the Sectaries cannot instance in one man like to hundreds and thousands of their Sectaries either for errors in judgement or loosnesse in life 1. Observe his u●grounded confidence in his own party as if they were all without errors and holy in their lives and conversations when as I on my own knowledge and many more doe know several Ministers that are very loose in their lives and altogether unfit for that work and yet hold strongly to the Presbyterian way and I suppose it were easie to find out in Suffolk and Norfolk another Century of Scandalous Ministers 2. Observe how he speaks nothing by his own knowledge but all by relation and if all his relation prove like to this which he hath written of me what will the man doe 3. Observe what it is that casts the scale in this mans judgement not the errors themselves but Independency or Presbyterianisme If an Independent Edwards will sound his trumpet against him though his error be never so small If a Presbyterian then silence all is born withall Mark what a fit man this is to be a Judge Mr. Edwards saith thus It is much against my genius and temper to doe it namely to bring mens names upon the stage for naturally saith he I do not love to offend any or to contend with any man but to comply and please all Now mark the man in his carriage and first observe whether there be any resemblance in his life and conversation that hee is of Pauls temper to become all unto all that he might gain some to be weak with the weake c. or whether it be not more clear that the man is of a very bad temper and complieth with men for his own ends for profit and preferment 2. Observe and see whether he doe not plainly lye in this expression for it is evident that he uses no means to comply with the Independent party but all meanes to make them odious to the Parliament and to the world Mr. Edwares in the 20 page A true copie of a letter written to me by a worthy and godly Minister in Suffolke in the name and by the consent and agreement of other Ministers of the County at a meeting of theirs First Observe the thing was of great wayght and moment and stood them in hand to look about them for if this be suffered think they in time we shall lose all our gayn and such as these will steale away our honour therefore come on let us consent together and give notice of this businesse to our Goliah or to our stalking horse and by him shoote it abroad to the discouraging of them in this way if it be possible Secondly Observe and take notice of this act of theirs and see if it had not been their duty to have sent to me and so to have reproved me in a loving way rather then to publish it at Gath especially seeing I was their neigbour living in the same County they might have come or sent unto me to reprove me for my evill they would alledge against me and I should have taken it thankfully Thirdly Observe from the letters it selfe Worthy Sir your Brethren in these parts desire to

Lanseters Lance FOR Edwards'es Gangrene OR A ripping up and laying open some rotten putrified corrupt stinking Matter in Mr. Thomas Edwards his Gangren or book intituled The second part of Gangrena Wherein amongst others he hath abused and belied Mr. John Lanceter calling him Pedler and saying that he opened the whole book of Ezra at a privat meeting in stead of opening his Pack which is proved false and other things also So that in consideration of the particulars judicious men may well conceive the cause of his Gangren to be his blind ignorance of the truth and his mad malice against the wel-affected conscientious people NEHEM 6.8 Then I sent unto him saying There are no such things done as thou sayest but thou fainest them out of thine own heart 2 TIM 2.16.17 Shun prophane and vain bablings for they will increase unto more ungodlinesse and their word will eate as doth a Canker or Gangren Published according to Order LONDON Printed in the Yeare 1646. A little Crum for Mr. Cranford the Licencer of Mr. Edwards'es Gangren Mr. Cranford to the Reader expresseth thus Reader thou art presented with the second part of Gangrena declaring some other not infirmities of the Saints as some men call them but abominations of men of corrupt minds reprobate concerning the faith Answer 1. Observe here how forward Mr. Cranford is to give credit to whatsoever Mr. Edwards speaks be it false or true as if Mr. Edwards had purchased Mr. Cranfords good word by a gift thereby making his eyes blind for a gift will blind the eyes of the wise 2. Observe Mr. Cranfords judgement of privat meetings to pray and preach and to conferre one with another it seems they are abominations in Mr. Cranfords opinion amongst the rest 3. Observe his ungrounded harsh censuring of such men as doe such things that they are Reprobate concerning the faith But where is Mr. Cranfords charity all this while which should teach him To judge nothing before the time John Lanseter TO THE READER Courteous Reader WHen Mr. Thomas Edwards his Book against Independencie and Toleration came forth about foure yeares agoe O what boasting there was then among the Prelaticall party and Temporizers as if the day had been their own But when the woman came and strook the naile of Independency into the head of their Sisera with the Hammer of Gods holy word then their sport was spoyled and quasht the effects whereof appeareth for since that time he could never set forth any thing but Gangrena or such like stuffe as his Antipologia before it which the same party answered presented as a new-years gift that he might break off his old sins c. And what is Gangrena or the Gangren Jt is a putrified rotten dead and insensible soare whose nature is to fret to the mortifying of that member that hath it growing upon him Therefore is that which he produceth rightly called by him Gangrena for the ripping up and opening of which this Lance was made whereby the Christian Reader may see that the bitter effects of persecution or want of publick toleration of the true Religion causeth nothing but corruption and putrifaction tending to utter destruction But happy is he that is forewarned by other mens harms Vale. THE Introduction AS the nature of a Gangren is to spread it selfe to the endangering of the body even so is it with Mr. Edwards his Gangren which endangereth both his body and soule and others also for he himselfe acknowledgeth in his preface that this his second part is of the same nature and kind with Gangrene and I think herein the man saith true though all is not true which he speakes or writes for if it were so as it is not then he would be that which he is not as may appeare by this following relation For this second part of his Gangren coming to the hands of Mr. Iohn Lanseter who perusing the same found it to be a booke of tales not so true as new and amongst the rest he found a letter dated from Clare in Suffolk March 30. 1646. but without the name of the party that sent it even as almost all of his letters are which I have ground to suspect to be lying relatiōs as this is Which saith M. Edwards is a true Copy of a letter written from a worthy and godly Minister in Suffolk in the name and by the consent and agreement of other Ministers of the County at a meeting of theirs and sent up by the hands of a godly Minister in those parts who delivered it to me After some tydings the letter saith This bearer can likewise tell you somwhat of Mr. Archer of Halsteed Also of one Lansister of Bury a Pedlar and of his opening the whole book of Ezra at a private meeting in stead of opening his pack of the prayer that followed his Exercise c. It would be lost labor for me to make a further relation by writing of these things seeing you shal receive the truth morefully by word of mouth and by a faithful relater After the letter he saith Upon conference with the Minister who brought up this Letter he related these following passages to me and I writ them presently as he spake them One Lansister in a private meeting at Bury condemned all the Ministers of England for the Sanballats and Tobiahs of this time that hindred the building of the Temple resembling himselfe and the Sectaries to those who would build the Temple but it was withstood by the Ministers who hindred it At that meeting there was a plaine godly man a solid old Christian of Master Faircloths Congregation who opposed him and God was so mightily with him that it turned to the shame and reproach of this Lansister and those who adher'd to him This being so in Mr. Edwards'es book Mr. Lanseter thought it meet to cleare himselfe as publikly as he had aspersed him yet determined first to go to Mr. Edwards to speake unto him about this in a peaceble way which Hee did accordingly before he went out of London upon June the 29. and tooke Mr. Edwards his book with him who coming to Mr. Edwards his house and a friend or two more with him to be as Testimonies Hee asked him saying Sir doe you know mee No saith Mr. Edwards I doe not know you Sir saith hee my Name is Lanseter and I came from Bury and you have mentioned me in your book I have so saith Edwards Sir saith Lanseter do you know that those things are truths which you have written here of me They are none of mine saith Edwards but the relation of others Lanseter That 's all one seeing you are the divulger thereof and this book is yours Sir saith Lanseter what if these things be proved false how then Saith Edwards it will not lye upon me but upon those from whom I had the relation Sir saith Lanseter I pray you tell me their names I will send saith Edwards first to those

begin But they held to their agreement to perswade me Then I saw it was their earnest desire and so I did apprehend it to be a call of God and therefore I demanded from them What they would have me do and whether they would have me read any part of the Scripture or go on in prayer without reading To which they made answer They thought it very fit to read a portion of Scripture For saith one it may be God hath made known something to this our friend which hee hath not done to us and we ought to be willing to learn from any by whom God will teach us Then I asked if we should desire a blessing upon the word to which they answered that it was a fitting thing Then I propounded this to them that I desired that if there were any thing spoken that day contrary to the Rule it might freely be objected against in love that it might be cleared and they agreed thereunto and liked the motion very well Then we joyned together and sought God for a blessing upon our comming together and that he would give us to understand his minde in his word And after we had so done then I opened the Bible and read the first Chapter of Ezra which containeth in it 1. The occasion of King Cyrus his proclamation That the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled in the 29. of Jeremiah the 10. verse For thus saith the Lord that after seaventy yeares be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you and perform my good word to you and cause you to return from this place 2. The Proclamation it selfe Thus saith Cyrus King of Persia Who is there among you of all his people his God be with him let him goe up to Jerusalem which is in Judah and build the House of the Lord God he is the God which is in Jerusalem 3. An exhortaion to the people where these Jewes dwelt to help them with supplies for their journey to Jerusalem 4. The effects that were wrought by the proclamation and exhortation Then rose up the chiefe of the Fathers of Judah and Benjamin and the Priests and Levits with all those whose spirit God had raised to goe up to build the house of the Lord which is at Jerusalem Then all that were about them strengthened their hands with such supplies as they were exhorted unto by the King 5. The concurrence of the King with them he brought forth the vessels of the house of the Lord which Nebuchadnezzar had put in the House of his God 1. Here is to be noted the great care of God over his people not to let them lie any longer in captivity then the appointed time 70. yeares The word of comfort he uttered to his people it was both spoken and written before that so they should not faint under Gods corrections but at the end they should be delivered For the wed of the wicked shall not alway lie upon the lot of the righteous lest they should put forth their hands to iniquity Now was the time indeed that God did as is said in the 40. of Isaiah verse 1. Comfort ye my people and speak comfortably to Jerusalem and tell her her warfare is past c. 2. Observe the way of Gods working deliverance for them it was by over-powering the heart of Cyrus a heathen King to give them liberty Sometimes God will make use of instruments to bring to passe his own designes yet not out of any reall love he beares to them but out of love to his people 3. Observe also the noble frame of spirit that was in a great part of the people of God that they with Paul did not consult with flesh and blood but were obedient to the will of God and rose up presently according to Eccles. 9.10 What thy hand finds to doe doe it with all thy might 4. Observe what great incouragement they had by the King and by the people First by the King two wayes 1. Hee exhorted others to help them and 2. He himselfe delivered out to them the vessels of the House of the Lord which had been carried to Babylon which if they had been destroyed and the people to make all new it might have been a long time before they should have been in a fit posture to worship God And this was great encouragement to the people Quest But what was the reason that God gave power into the hands of Nebuchadnezzar to carry them away into Babylon and the vessels of the House of the Lord to put them into the hands of his God and to use the people so hardly as they were used 2. Quest How did they carry themselves towards God in Babylon 3. What was Gods end in bringing them out of Babylon againe 1. Answ To the 1. I answer it was for their sins and rebellions against God for poluting the house of the Lord which he had hallowed in Jerusalem and for abussing the Prophets that came unto them and for dispising their words therefore he brought upon them the King of the Chaldees 2 Chron. 6. and 14.15.16.17 and they burnt the house of the Lord see vers 19. and they became servants to him and his Sons nay slaves a sad change for them to be carried from a place of peace to a place of sorrow from a place of freedom to a place of thraldom see the 1 of Lamenta the 2. vers she weepeth sore in the night and so through the Chapter we may see how God chastiseth her Answ to 2. Quest She carried her selfe obediently humbly and boare patiently the hand of God see Jer. 39 5.6 7. and Lament 3 from 22. to 29. verse and severall places in that book but though they found no rest they waited for his salvation Answ to 3. Quest. What was Gods end in bringing them out of Babilon againe at the appointed time 1. It was to perform his faithfulnesse to his people for so he had promised after 70. years was fulfilled to bring them back againe 2. He brought them out for this end that they might build him an house in the place appointed that so he might manifest himselfe unto his people by communicating speciall blessings unto them And God had declared his love to Zion how that he made it his peculiar habitation where he said he would dwell Psal 132.13.14.15 In Moses dayes after God had delivered his people out of Egypt the Lord desired them to build him a Tabernacle and he promised to dwell with his people and so he did and his glory rested upon his Tabernacle and after that they were setled in Canaan God commanded them to build his Temple and it was built in Solomans dayes and God manifested his glory therein And now is the time that God desireth that his spirituall house should be built that he might manifest his glory to the sons of men that love his name and take hold of his Covenant and joyn themselves unto him such as

pray so God for you and for that courage he hath given you to encounter c. See how they bolster up the poor man in an evill way and encourage him to goe on in such a way as some of themselves dare not go on in having I hope more grace seeing further They acknowledge themselvs his brethren why because they are Presbyterians And truly it appeares to me that they are partakers of his evill deeds and if this be not an evill deed to be an incendiary to set the kingdome on fire and to stir up man against man then I am deceived He saith page 21. Of one Lansister of Bury a Pedlar and of his openinn the whole book of Ezra at a privat meeting in stead of opening his pack and of the prayer that followed his exercise c. Mark these expressions how wisely they are set downe and 1. Observe they with a lie advance me in saying I opened the whole book of Ezra which I feare none of them are able to open in a moneths time but I desire to be thankfull for what I have received 2. Observe I did it say they in stead of opening my packe I would they had expressed a little further and a little wiser Whether they think it had been convenient for me either to have brought all my shop of ware to the meeting or my horse loaden as I drive him to Market Surely it had been absurd to have done either of them both But see and 3. Observe whether these expressions did not come from them as from men over-whelmed with grief to think that such a one as I am should according to the grace which is given me open a portion of Scripture to the edification of the hearers Further he saith that I condemned all the Ministers of England for the Sanballets and Tobiahs of this time that hindered the building of the Temple that I resembled my selfe and the Sectaries to those that would build the Temple And there was a plain godly man a solid old Christian of Mr. Fairhlot●s congregation who opposed me and God was so mightily with him that it turned to the shame and reproach of me and those who adhered to me Now let every rationall man consider and weigh-things for in the first place I deny that I opened the whole book of Esra 2. I deny that I once named Tobiah Sanballet 3. I deny that there was any man that opposed me in any one thing that I spake either out of Ezra or in prayer and this I shall prove and in all these things I appeale to those that heard me * See Mr. Faircloths 2 hearers vindication of I. Lanseter But as I said before let every man consider and see whether it be not as probable that the Priests of the Church of England are the hinderers as any ony other men in the kingdome 2. Observe and consider whether if profit and honour went along with that way which these speak so much against whether it be not probable many of them would have been forward in it long agoe Mr. Edwards in the 179. page saith That we may see or learn what is like to become of them and of their way and what their end will be namely confusion and desolation and if ever God spake by me saith he I am confident he will cursse this Faction of Sectaries in England and cast them out as an abominable branch me thinkes I see their day a coming and drawing neere And in 180. page I shall saith he towl the great Bell for the Sectaries Anabap c. and hope shortly to ring it out and to preach their funerall Sermon and rejoyce at the breaking up of their Conventicles Now consider and 1. Observe the man is in good hope to see the rooting out of all those that are for any way but his Presbytery way hee hath not so much patience as Gamaliel Act. 5.38.39 to wait But he longs for their ruine Secondly Observe how he builds his confidence upon a suposition Indeed a meer suposition saith he If ever God speake by me truly I question it and so do many more and I am perswaded that the man will be frustrated of his expectations and then I hope he will question indeed whether ever God speake by him Thirdly Observe how he hath bespoke two offices first to ring the bell out of which uses to be matter of profit to the under Officer see he is hungry after mony Secondly to preach their Funerall Sermon which useth to be twenty shillings for a man of some ranke but now it being for so many in the Kingdome and for some of great quallity too he hopes to be rewarded with as great a living as doctor Burges hath at which he seemes to envy Mr. Edwards in the 185. page saith he Independency is a faxion because all these following sorts and ranks come into it 1. Needy broken decayed men who know not how to live 2. Guilty suspicious obnoxious men who have been or are in the lurch and in feare to be questioned Independency being a Sanctuary where such fly and be sate 3. Ambitions proud covetous men 4. Libertines and lose persons who have a desire to live in pleasure and enjoy their lusts c. 1. Observe how Mr. Edwards is conceited of his own new found way newly trimed over and therefore casts dirt upon every way also because he would have all turne into him to his crooked wayes as in Prov. 2.12.15 2. Observe how he dispiseth poore and needy men and is resolved to keepe them out of his way why because they have no fleece for him 3. Observe whether this man is not blind for he cannot see the guilty suspitious obnoxious persons that are in his own way let Mr. Edwards bring forth if he can what Independent Church hath ever secured such persons from the law of the Land 4 Observe how the man contradicts himselfe to say proud covetous persons For he saith in the same book that there is an Independant Minister that hath 50. l. a yeare from 3. or 4. men it seemes they are not covetous men 5. Observe how the man mistakes in his own expression to say they are Libertens and loose persons that desire to injoy their lusts when as it is known they receive non but such as either the whole Church or a great part know to be conciencious And it is well known that if an Independent Church cast out any for some great office the same parties can go to some parish Church in England and never be questioned at all Thus the Independents excremen●s becomes these Presbyterians ornaments Mr. Edwards in the 194. page saith that God will make them com viz. those who are the Antitipes to those Iews namely namely the S●●●●●● s Anabaptists Independents c. and worship before the feet of the Scots and that God saith I will adorne thee to wit the Scots and thou shalt have victories over these enemyes and thou