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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A71074	A second letter to Mr. G. in answer to two letters lately published concerning the conference at the D. of P.	Stillingfleet, Edward, 1635-1699.; Godden, Thomas, 1624-1688.	1687 (1687)	Wing S5635; ESTC R14280	27,300	46

made known to us Let us now lay these two assertions together If your Doctrine hold good All Doctrines of Faith must be explicitely delivered from Father to Son No saith Mr. M. The Church hath power to make known Doctrines implicitely and virtually contained in Scripture I pray could the Father communicate to his Son what was only implicitely and virtually contained in Scripture If Mr. M. say true here is a very possible cause of Innovation assigned without Forgetfulness or Malice viz. when the Fathers of the Church take upon them to draw forth implicit Doctrines and to make them explicit Articles of Faith. And thus undoubtedly many Innovations have come into the Church when some persons have taken up a particular Opinion and because nothing would prevail without Scripture they have attempted to bring it out of Scripture but that being not plain or clear for it they gave out it was virtually and implicitely contained in it and thus it passed from one to another till it getting footing in the Church and prevailing over a great part of it then lest the Church should be charged with Errour and Innovation the prevailing Party takes upon it to declare this to be the sense and meaning of Scripture and to require all persons of their Communion to believe it And thus Mr. M. hath answered your Demonstration But still although the Church of Rome hath assumed such a Power yet it still disowned it and even in the Council of Trent pretended to interpret Scripture according to the unanimous sense of the Fathers which is directly contrary to the Power of making known such a sense and Meaning of Scripture in Doctrines of Faith as may oblige men to believe that explicitely now which they were not obliged to by any precedent Sense or Explication I come now to the Fifth and Last Question Qu. 5. Being the words Christian Church may be taken in several latitudes by persons of different Religions I desire to know what that Christian Church is whose Testimony concerning the Books of Scripture and the Doctrine contained therein is a sufficient ground to make us certain of all matters that are necessary to our Salvation Ans. 5. By the Universal Testimony of the Christian Church concerning the Books of Scripture which are our Rule of Faith as to matters of Salvation I mean the Universal Consent of all Christian Churches from the Apostles times downwards This Mr. M. calls Trifling p. 13. and in this you agree though you differ in the Resolution of Faith. But I pray wherein does this Trifling lie Was it because I would not answer as you would have had me But I do not yet see how I could have answered more to the purpose The Question in short was What the Christian Church was whose Universal Testimony I relied upon as to the Canon of Scripture My Answer was That the Christian Church is that which is made up of all Christian Churches and their Universal Consent is that Testimony we rely upon Is this Trifling But saith Mr. M. p. 14. Mr. G. 's intention was to know what Churches I accounted Christian Churches I told you over and over since we were enquiring into the general Grounds of Faith if we had the Universal Testimony of all Christian Churches I had no reason to go any farther For if all Churches of the Christian World be agreed as they are about the Canon of the New Testament this was sufficient for the certainty of our Faith without looking after any Infallibility in the Church of Rome And this you know was the main Point in Dispute between us as appears by the occasion of it as it is set down by Mr. M. You affirmed that no Protestant could shew any ground of absolute certainty for their Faith I undertook to shew we had for our Faith is resolved into the Scripture as the Word of God and whatever is built on the Word of God is absolutely certain And that these Books of the New Testament contain our Rule of Faith as being the Word of God we have the Universal Testimony of all Christian Churches And this makes our Faith as to these Books absolutely certain And where now is the Trifling Doth the Universal Testimony of all Christian Churches afford sufficient Ground of Certainty as to the Books of Scripture or not If not why do you not shew wherein it fails If it doth what mean you to call this Trifling When it is apparent I have gained the Point I aimed at viz. That we Protestants have certain Grounds for our Faith without any need of the Roman Churches Infallibility Which was the thing to be shewed But Mr. M. tells me p. 14. That you asked me whether I included the Arians Nestorians Eutychians and Calvinists and urged that this Question might be written down to which I did not consent Because Mr. T. declared he was fully satisfied and desired to propose a New Question to Mr. G. I grant you did ask me the Question several times whether I included the Arians Nestorians c. I told you I rejected the Doctrines of all such as were condemned by the four General Councils as the Arians Nestorians and Eutychians were but it was not pertinent to our purpose to consider how far any under those Denominations might be Parts of the Catholick Church For since we had the Consent of all Christian Churches in this Matter I had no Reason to lessen the Evidence they gave by a Concurrent Testimony For the Argument was so much stronger since all Churches under all Denominations did agree in it But Mr. M. still complains that I would not permit your sixth Question viz. What Churches I look'd on as Members of the Christian Church It is strange he should forget for what Reason I rejected it viz. because it was not pertinent to our business For if the Testimony of all Christian Churches be more considerable than only of some why should I lessen the strength of the Argument taken from the Universal Consent of all Christian Churches The other Question must have led us into other Disputes foreign to our business and my design was to keep close to the Matter of Certainty about which the Conference began And now I hope I have given an Answer to the Letter desiring Information of the Conference which I did forbear in my first Letter to set down at large foreseeing that either your self or your friend would offer me farther occasion to give a suffer account of it But because the Substance of the whole Conference depended on those two Points 1. Whether the Universal Consent of all Christian Churches be not a sufficient Ground for our Certainty as to our Rule of Faith viz. the Scripture 2. Whether Tradition from Father to Son be an infallible Conveyance of Matters of Faith To shew wherein the main force of the whole Conference lay in few words I desired you to make good these two Things 1. That we have no absolute Certainty as to the Rule

in Answer to the next Question Q. 2. By what certain Rule do you hold it A. 2. By the Divine Revelations contained in the Writings of the New Testament Here was no Subtilty or Learning requisite but to give a plain Answer as to the Rule of our Faith. Which we do assert to be the Written Word and no Oral Tradition Q. 3. Then follow'd By what certain Rule do you know that the New Testament which we now have does contain all the Divine Revelations of Christ and his Apostles A. 3. By the Vniversal Testimony of the Christian Church from the Apostles time downwards In which Answer I laid down the Grounds of our different Resolution of Faith from that which you contend for and which I at large explained in the Conference it self viz. that our Certainty of Faith is chiefly resolved into the Testimony of the Apostolical Churches which first received the Books of the New Testament from the Divine Writers of them and from these Churches where the Authentick Writings themselves were preserved Copies were dispersed over other Churches which by comparing together the Testimonies of the several Churches did by degrees fix upon the Certain Canon of the New Testament Here a Question was started Whether all the Books of the New Testament were alike received I answer'd not at first but after due Examination those which were at first Controverted came to be universally received And I particularly instanced in the Church of Rome which a long time did not receive the Epistle to the Hebrews when it was received by other Churches but at last did yield to the Testimony of other Churches therein From whence I observed that the Church of Rome was far from being believed then to have the Authority of making the Canon of Scripture or being Infallible in Faith it being then taxed for disbelieving a Part of Scripture and being at last over-ruled by the Testimony of the other Apostolical Churches I remember I asked you how it came about that the Church of Rome in St Ierom's time did err about the Epistle to the Hebrews if there were any Infallibility in it And your Answer was that Rome was at a great distance from Judea Which I thought a strange Answer considering the Communication the Churches then had at greater distance and the frequent Recourse of Iews to Rome but especially if that Church had any Promise of Infallibility made to it Which to be just to you I do not remember that you once asserted in all that two hours Discourse And truly you were not inconsistent with your Principles therein For Infallibility by Promise and by Oral Tradition are as different as Grace and Nature or the Assent of Faith from a Dictate of Reason In Faith a Divine Testimony is supposed in the Infallibility of Oral Tradition nothing but a Natural Principle that men must hold the same Doctrine to day that they did yesterday and so up to the time of our Blessed Saviour Where the different method of our resolving Faith appears you begin at the present time and so run upwards but the force of all lies in the connexion of one link with another inseparably which I say will by no means hold but ours begins with the Apostolical Churches which first received the sacred Books and delivered them down their Testimony is the Authentick instrument of conveying down the Canon of Scripture and the following Tradition of the Church is onely a conveying down that first Testimony upon which we believe the Canon of the New Testament There were many interlocutory passages about this Subject but this is the substance of what I distinctly remember Q. 4. Was that Vniversal Testimony an Infallible Rule to assure us certainly down to our time that the New Testament contained all the Divine Revelations of Christ and his Apostles A. 4. The Vniversal Testimony of the Christian Church concerning the Book of Scripture and the Doctrine contained therein is a sufficient Ground to make us certain of all matters necessary to our Salvation To make this Answer clear we are to consider that the Scripture being our sole and entire Rule of Faith all matters necessary to Salvation must be supposed to be contained therein and therefore the same Testimony which delivers the Scripture to us doth deliver all the necessary Articles of Faith as contained therein Which are there received as in the Lump and if we receive the Book which contains all we must by the same Authority receive all contained in it As if a Purse be left to a Man by his Father's Will full of Gold and Silver and this by the Executours be declared to contain all the Gold and Silver his Father left him they who deliver this Purse to him from the Executours do certainly deliver to him all the Gold and Silver left him by his Father But if he suspects there was both Gold and Silver left him by his Father which was not in that Purse then he must call in question the Integrity of the Executours who declared that all was contained therein This is now the Case of the Christian Church as to all Divine Truths which respect Mens Salvation the Primitive Church who answer to the Executours in the other Case did unanimously declare that all such Truths were undoubtedly contained in the Written Word Although therefore there may be a real difference in the nature of the Doctrines therein contained as there is between Gold and Silver yet he that receives all must receive the one as well as the other and the matters of Salvation being of greatest moment they that receive the whole Will of God upon grounds of certainty must be assured that therein they receive all matters necessary to our Salvation Against my Answer to this Question Mr. M. suggests several things p. 12. 1. As to difference of Translations Doth Mr. M. think our Faith is to be resolved into the Original Texts What becomes then of the Vulgar Latin For although the Council of Trent declares it to be Authentick yet I take it to be but a Translation But there is a difference of Translations and there is no unanimous consent of the Christian Church for any one And how is it possible there should be since the Christian Church consists of so many bodies of Men of different Countries and Languages But we have the unanimous Consent of all the ancient Christian Churches for the Translation of the Scripture into their own Languages which shews that they thought the People ought to be acquainted with it as the Word of God so translated and that they were to resolve their Faith into it as they were capable of understanding it And it is very hard to conceive how Faith can be resolved into an unknown Tongue but we have the unanimous consent of the Christian Church that Faith must rest upon the Word of God which is contained in the Books of Scripture And therefore we have the Consent of the Christian Church against resolving