doinges of this later Church of our daies For M. Iewel the Church of God is but One And hath continewed without interruption sense the coming of Christ in a knowen Multitude and shall so Continewe euen to the worldes ende A RETVRNE OF VNTRVTHES VPON M. IEWELL c. The Thirde Article Of Seruice in the vulgar tounge IF you meane M. Iewell by the peoples Common praiers such as at that time they coÌ„monly made to God in priuate deuotion I thinke they vttered them in that tounge which they vnderstode 65 and so doo Christian people now for the most parte Iewell The .65 Vntruthe For vnder the subiection of the bishop of Rome the people for the most parte praieth in latin Stapleton They do not so now M. Iewell For Now not only in these countries of the lower Germany where we now liue but also in Fraunce and Italy as I knowe by experience the common people haue their common praiers in their vulgar tounge Doutche Frenche and Italian And in our countre whatsoeuer they did fifty or fourty yeres agoe in the late reigne of Quene Marie the people had their common matins bookes bothe with latin and with english Therefore that Now the people for the most parte praieth in the vulgar tounge it was truly saied of D. Harding and the contrary on your parte vntruly auoutched Againe he speaketh of praiers made in priuat deuotion which is not allwaies bounde to the booke but oftentimes expresseth it selfe without booke as thousandes doe that can reade in no booke Harding Aboute 900· yeres paste 66 it is certaine the people in some Countries had their seruice in an vnknowen tounge as it shall be proued of our owne countre in England Iewell The .66 Vntruthe This certainte will neuer be proued Stapleton Yes M. Iewell I will make you a shorte argument whereby it shall be clerely proued At the first planting of the faith amonge vs englishmen S. Gregory sent churche bookes to England from Rome for the Church Seruice of the new conuerted Englishmen But those Church bookes sent from Rome were in the latin tongue Ergo the Churche Seruice of the new conuerted Englishmen was in the latin tounge For proufe of the Maior or first proposition I bringe the testimony of Venerable Bede a lerned countreman of oures writen in the yere of our lorde 730. His wordes be these Farder more the saied Pope he meaneth S. Gregory for so much as Augustine had aduertised him that there was a great haruest and fewe workemen sent him with his saied legates more preachers of the which the chefest were Mellitus Iustus and Ruffinianus By them also he sent al such thinges as were necessary for the furniture and ministery of the Church As holy vessels aultar clothes ornaments for the Churches apparell also for the priestes and clergy Also relikes of the holy Apostles and martyrs and many Bookes Thus farre Bede In whose wordes we see for the Furniture and Ministery of the church Bookes to haue ben sent from Rome That this was done at the first planting of Christen faith amonge vs Englishmen vs Englishmen I saie occupying at that time all that is now called England the olde Brittons being driuen in to the straights of Wales let the whole History of Venerable Bede be a witnesse to all englishmen though M. Iewell in this Article afterwarde most impiously and impudently after his maner do denie it Now touching the Minor or second proposition that these Churche bookes sent from Rome were â—n the latin tounge it nedeth not I trust to proue It is euident that our english Saxon tounge was not at that time vnderstanded at Rome neither of those which came froÌ„ Rome at their first arriual in to our couÌ„tre but the Latin tounge only And therfore those bookes sent from Rome for the Furniture and Seruice of the Church were in Latin and not in English Thus the premisses being clere the Conclusion is vndoubted Other argumentes are brought afterwarde in this Article by D. Harding to the which how well M. Iewell hath replied it will appeare in the Confutation thereof Vpon this conclusion that the Church seruiuice was in the Latin tounge it shal not nede I trowe to inferre Ergo it was in a strauÌ„ge and vnknowen tounge to English men I trust M. Iewell will not be so impudent as to saie that all Englishmen then conuerted to the faithe vnderstode the Latin tounge Which if he will saie as truly with no lesse impudency he denieth the faith to haue ben then first planted amonge vs englishmen and most wickedly violateth the blessed memory of our Apostle S. Augustin the History of Venenerable Bede lately set foorth in the english tounge shall proue him a manifest lyar in the one and a most notorious slaunderer in the other Harding I saie as I saied before that the seruice was then within the compasse of 600. yeres after Christ in a toung which some people vnderstode and some vnderstode not Iewell The .67 Vntruthe M. Harding is not able to shew one nation that vnderstoode not their Common seruice StapletoÌ„ Yes forsothe M. Harding hath shewed it as it shall well appeare before we haue ended this Article Yet presently for the iustifying of this Vntruth wherein in dede the whole Article dependeth and the which being iustified your assertion M. Iewell is ouerthrowâ—n I proue that within the first 600. yeres certain nations vnderstode not their commoÌ„ seruice Thus I reason All the inhabitans of Smyrna Pontus Cappadocia Lyaconia Caria Thracia had their Common seruice in the Greke tounge But all the inhabitants of those Nations vnderstode not the Greke tounge Ergo all those inhabitans had not their seruice in a tounge which they vnderstoode For proufe of the Maior or first proposition I wil bring the testimony of S. Hierom. S. Hierom writeth thus Alexandria Aegyptus in Septuaginta suis Hesychium laudat authorem Constantinopolis vsque Antiochiam Luciani Martyris exemplaria probat Mediae inter has prouinciae palestinos codices legunt quos ab Origine elaboratos Eusebius Pamphilus vulgauerunt totusque orbis hac inter se trifaria varietate compugnat That is Alexandria and Aegypt in their Greke copies of the Bible do vse that traÌ„slation of the 70. which Hesychius hath sett forthe From Constantinople vnto Antioche the copies sett foorth by Lucianus Martyr are allowed Other prouinces lying betwene these do reade the bookes of Palestina which Eusebius and Pamphilus being first corrected by Origen did sett foorth and all the worlde in this triple variete of copies contendeth one with the other By these wordes of S. Hierom it is euident that in all the East parte of the worlde which he calleth here the whole worlde from Aegypt to Constantinople and within all the countres lying betwene comprehending al Asia the lesse these three copies only of the Greke Bibles were vsed For in this triple diuersite he saieth all that
the East that the Pope Cōfirmeth bishops that he Cōfirmeth and Approueth al General Councelles and without him none can be confirmed that he Restoreth bishops and Patriarches vniustly depriued to their Churches againe that he Recōcileth them vpō penaunce after Excōmunication last of al that all doubtes and questions of greater Importance haue bene Remoued to him Al this by the Practise of the first .600 yeres And in eche of all these Matters the whole text of the Replyer is answered lyne by lyne and stiche by stiche In fine it is proued against the Replyers Vntruthes and against his whole text thereupō bothe that the Bishop of Rome was Called Saluted and Intitled Vniuersal bishop in the Chalcedō Coūcel yea and that of the Bishops and Councell it selfe and also that many waies and oftē he hath bene called Head of all Churches and bishop of the Vniuersall Church By the meanes whereof the Replyer is forced by good and expresse euidence either to reuoke his ouerbolde Challenge or els to come to the Booke and Subscribe And thus much of the principall matters especially treated and debated in the processe of these foure Articles VVhat profit of all these Matters thus debated maye of thee be looked for gentle Reader thou mayest soone concieue considering only this one Case D. Harding in his Answer treating first most of these Matters bothe hath vttered such good lerning as he founde in other Catholike writers treating before of the same in latin and also by his lerned and priuat study beside hath added much thereunto M. Iewell hath in his Replie partly vttered such escapes to auoide the Authorites alleaged as commonly of the Latin writers of his secte are vsed partly and that most commonly hath aleaged beside against the Truthe all tha◠he coulde finde in other or hath read him selfe He hath I saie saied for him selfe as much and more then coulde honestly be saied He hath opposed Argument◠Allegations reasons and Authorytes for the Contrary parte As if he did not Replie against an other but treate him selfe freely and freshly of the matter By this meanes in these two bookes the Answer of D. Harding and the Replie of M. Iewell bothe partes haue saied their minde the one for the Catholike faithe the other not only against the Catholike faythe but also for his owne secte and opinion I haue bene therefore driuen in persecuting the text of the Replies not only to defende the Catholike but also to answer the heretike not only to vpholde our owne groūdes and to repayre them with newe defences against the Replyers newe assaultes but much more to ouerthrowe the Aduersaryes groundes and foundations which he opposeth and setteth vp afresh against the Truthe I haue done therefore herein a thirde and newe labour in most pointes not before done of any By perusing whereeof thou shalt gentle Reader be instructed not only howe to maintaine the Catholike doctrine but also howe to ouerthrowe the heresy not only to see the groundes of the Catholike faithe established fortified and confirmed but also to beholde the fickle foundations of the Lutheran and Caluinian Religion touching the pointes here treated battered shaken and ouerthrowen Brefely thou shalt see in the person of M. Iewell and of his maner of reasoning that the foundation of his and his felowes Religiō especially against their dewe Obedience to the See Apostolike standeth vpon Ignorance of the stories falsifying of the doctours of councelles of the lawes and of other good Authors bothe olde and newe For hereof loe Arise the hundreds of Vntruthes committed by this Replyer in the treating only of these principall matters aboue specified and in fighting only against the weakest and vntruest partes of his aduersaryes Answer If our purpose had bene to haue gone alonge his whole Replie and to haue persecuted his text vpon other partes of the Answer not so noted with Vntruthes and therefore of all lykelyhood the more True partes the Stronger and the lesse able truly to be reproued this Replyer then should tel by the Thousandes and might go for a Pinner for his Numbers of Vntruthes But of his Dealing in the Epistle prefixed to him it hath bene saied sufficiently To returne to our matter I saie If the Argument of these other three first Articles do lesse delight as being in dede of lesse importaunce yet Consider I beseche thee gentle Reader if thou shortly desire to be informed which waye to take and diligently peruse the Fourthe Article of this booke Namely in such places where M. Iewelles Replie against Appeales made to the Pope against the Confirmation of Generall Councelles and of Bishops that were doubtefully Ordred against the Restoring of bishops depriued the Reconciliation of bishops excommunicated and against the Authorite of the Pope ouer the East Churche is examined answered and confuted For in those places it shall appeare bothe with what shiftes absurdities Inconueniences and open Vntruthes the allegatyōs of D. Harding are impugned and much more with what extreme lying lewde and Vntrue dealing the contrary parte is by M. Iewell vpholded and defended Being in this Article persuaded euery wise and discrete Reader shall incontinently in al other matters nowe denied by heretikes retire to the vnite and belefe of the Catholike Church For the bisshop of that Apostolike See being by such Clere and so manifolde Practise by so many Graue and Irrefragable Authorities beside both of holy Scripture and of the lerned Fathers Cōfessed and proued to be the Head Chiefe Ouerseer and Guide of Gods house the vniuersall Churche being also euident that his Faith as it is also in this Article proued in any matter to be decreed and deliuered to the Churche neither hath at any time nor can possibly erre what doubte remaineth but in all pointes we must beleue as that holy See beleueth and behaue our selues in the house of God in all thinges touching the Seruice of God after no other waie or facyon then the order taken by that Souerain See hath of longe appointed vsed and accustomed This Article therefore as I haue especially laboured therein and spent more then halfe this booke thereupon so euery Reader that seketh by this my small labour to be aedified or instructed I desire most earnestly diligently to peruse If any one of my dere Countremen may hereby or by any part of this rude labour rudely in dede and hastely compyled be instructed or any waie edified to a better consideration of his duty to God as that many maie I most hartely wishe and verely hope him or them for all reward I beseche to helpe me and them selues with their good praiers to helpe I saie the Catholike Churche whereof both we and they are children and membres to call earnestly and often vpon the Mercy of God that he staie this raging storme off schisme and heresie neither suffer it to ouergrowe this part of the worlde as the Arrian heresy ouergrewe the Easte Church and to crepe on
like a Cancre as we see it daily dothe only for the multitude of our iniquities prouoking allwaie his iust indignation but that he looke mercifully vpon his spouse and confounde al her enemies vt coÌ„fundantur auertantur retrorsum omnes qui oderunt Syon that they be confouÌ„ded and recoyled backe all that hate Sion the holy Catholike Church Farewel In Antvverpe the 24. of Iuly 1566. Thomas Stapleton FAVLTES ESCAPED IN printing of this booke Leafe Syde Line Fault Correction In The Epistle 10. a. 20. Choynecyngh Choynecoâ—gh In The .3 Article 113. b. 3. fore fere 114. a. 10. fiet fit 116. a. 20. as is 121. In the margin Saint Paule to the Corin. c. put it out 122. 123. 125. b. 15. put in the margyn Pantaleon in Chronographia 129. a 12. nation Incarnation 134. b. 21. ten nyne In The .4 Article 104 b. 15. three but three assaultes made but 107 b. 11. extrema externa   27 comentum conuentum 115. b. 1. decree drawe   13. 3000 300 133. a. â— pointed painted 13â— b. 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 146. a. 16. were summoned were not summoned 147. b. 33. Constantius Constantinus 165 a. 5. of ofte A RETVRNE OF VNTRVTHES VPON M. IEVVEL c. The first Article Harding THE communion likewise of the Sacrament is a publike feast by Christ through the ministerie of the priest in the same prepared for euery faitheful person Iewell The first Vntruthe For there is no such preparation StapletoÌ„ There is preparation made by the Priest for all such as wil receiue When none will receiue no such preparation is made Yet bicause euery faithefull person duly prepared thereunto may receiue if he will and for all such the feast is prepared of Christ by the ministerie of the priest it is prepared for euery faithfull person And so being common by order of the firste institution and by will of the ministres it ought to be reputed for common not priuate Iewell The second Vntruthe There appeareth no suche will in the Ministre StapletoÌ„ Though there appeare no such will in the Minister to you M. Iewell and others which will deme the worste of the Priest yet to all well meaning folcke such will doth appeare who knowe the duty of the priest to be to distribute vnto all which duly prepared come to receiue The priestes will is not to be iudged of any externall vsage or practise such as you gather but of this only if any coming to the communion duly and semely prepared be repelled of the priest Which thinge bicause in no priest appeareth or if euer it appered by the Churche it was neuer allowed therefore it is true that by the will of the minister admitting gladly al faithful folcke prepared thereunto the feast is commoÌ„ for all not priuat for the priest alone These two Vntruthes are gathered only of the externall behauiour of the priest whereas the truth thereof dependeth of the preparation and deuotion of the people ioyntly concurring with the ministerie of the priest by the meanes whereof the feast is commoÌ„ It appeareth also by Reseruation that the Catholike Churche prepareth more for the people then the protestants which abhorre from all Reseruation Harding Therefore in this respect we do not acknowleadg any priuat Masse but leaue that terme to Luthers schoole where it was first diuised Iewell The 3. Vntruthe StapletoÌ„ Here is an Vntruthe noted but no cause or reason brought to proue it so Therefore vntell M. Iewell bringe some elder theÌ„ Luther which termed priuat Masse of the Sole Receiuing of the priest it is truly saied that that terme in that sence was in Luthers schole first diuised Harding The vnblouddy and daily sacrifice of the church commonly called the Masse Iewell The 4. Vntruthe The olde Fathers neuer commonly called it so StapletoÌ„ Yet the younge Fathers in kinge Edwardes dayes called it the Masse For in the first communion booke it is saied The CoÌ„munion otherwise called the Masse Howbeit all were it true that the olde Fathers neuer commonly called it so yet were it no Vntruthe to saye it is commonly called so For if these ix C. yeares onely the daily sacrifice had ben commoÌ„ly called the Masse were it an Vntruthe trowe ye to write coÌ„monly called the masse The ile of Brytanny is now commonly called England and and Scotland Yet the olde writers aboue litle more then a thousand yeares neuer called it so Shal it be now an Vntruth if a writer saie The ile of Britanny commonly called England and Scotland But the olde fathers euen within the compasse of six hundred yeares did commonly call it so S. Ambrose Leo the first and S. Gregory The olde fathers in the councells off Milleuet of whom S. Augustine was one and in the second at Carthage in Afrike the olde fathers of the councells of Arelat off Orleans and Agatha in Fraunce the olde Fathers of the councels of Ilerd and Gerund in Spayne all within the compasse of 500. yeares speaking of that dayly sacrifice do call it by the name of Masse Iudge now gentle reader whether it be an Vntruthe to saye Commonly called the Masse Harding VVe Haue for proofe of the sacrifice beside other places c the Institutyon of Christ in the new Testament Iewell The 5. Vntruthe Christ speaketh not one worde of any Sacrifice StapletoÌ„ Christ speaketh not one worde of any Sacrament in the last Supper and yet it is no Vntruthe to say For proofe of the Sacrament we haue the institution of Christ in the new Testament But aâ— Christ instituted a Sacrament by doing not by speaking so Christ instituted a Sacrifice by doing and sacrificing in dede not by speaking or reporting a Sacrifice Againe that Christ instituted a Sacrament in the last Supper we lerne it not by any expresse naming of a Sacrament in the Scripture But by the authorite of the Church expounding so the Siripture Right so that Christ sacrificed in dede vnto God the Father his precious body and bloud in the last supper we lerne by the Fathers of the Chrurch expounding vnto vs the Institution of Christ not by the expresse termes of Sacrifice in the Scripture The consent of the Fathers so teaching vs is other where at large expressed In the 34. Vntruthe Last of all the sacrifice of Christ on the crosse is not of any Euangelist named and yet off the Euangelistes we lerne that Christ was sacrificed on the Crosse. Harding That S. Andrew the apostle touching the substaunce of the masse worshipped God euery day with the same seruice as priestes now doe in celebrating the externall sacrifice of the Church Iewell The .6 Vntruthe S. Andrew saide the Communion and not the Masse StapletoÌ„ First the Masse and the Communion Dewly ministred is all one Therefore you doe but fondly to make as though it were a Contradiction bewene
either the Grosse Ignorance or the Wilfull Malice of M. Iewell This very saying and proposition of D. Harding which M. Iewell noteth for an Vntruth and which Slaunderously he calleth A foule deprauation of holy Scripture those very wordes I saie are the clere saying of that most lerned and most holy Father S. Hilary vttered of him aboue twelue hundred yeres past For that holy Father alleaging against the Arrians as D. Harding doth here against M. Iewell and his felowes that many thinges Commaunded by Christ were altered by the Apostles and their Successours bringeth this very matter for an example as D. Harding dothe and vttereth these very wordes Apostoli baptisare in Nomine Patris Filij Spiritus Sancti iussi Tantum in Iesu Nomine Baptisauerunt The Apostles being Commaunded to Baptise in the Name of the Father and the Sonne and of the Holy Ghoste they baptised in the Name of Iesus Christ Only Goe nowe M. Iewell take your penne and score vp this Vntruthe vpon S. Hilary as you haue done here vpon D. Harding Tell your Reader whom you fede with lies and Slaunderous Vntruthes that S. Hilary hath made A foule deprauation of the Sâ—riptures as you Slaunderously haue tolde him that D. Haâ—ding did make Be wise I pray you Aâ—one vnderstande the Scriptures Alone Beleue your selfe no Body and yet looke to be beleued Alone By such Impudency you vpholde your Religion Harding To the Apostles only and their successours and to none other the 55 Catholike Church hath euer referred the necessite of that commaundemeut Drinke ye all of this And that in the celebration of the Sacrifice Iewell The .55 Vntruthe The Catholike or vniuersall Church neuer vnderstode it so but onely the Church of Rome which is but late and mere particular The Church of Rome is at this day the most auncient Church in Christendom The succession thereof hath continewed from S. Peter the Head of the Apostles vntill these our daies without interruptioÌ„ by the number of 230. bishops which yet M. Iewell calleth a late Church euen as he calleth the Catholike religion a corruption of late yeres Againe he saieth it is a mere particular Church and therefore no Catholike Church Yes forsothe M. Iewell it is called the Catholike Church of the lerned Fathers of the first 600. yeres When S. Paule saied the Church of God to be the piller of truthe what Churche meant he M. Iewell Meant he any particular Churche and not rather the Catholike and vniuersall churche of all Christendom which in dede can not swarue from the truthe as particular chuâ—ches bothe may and haue done Yeat S. Ambrose expounding that place of S. Paule and speaking of that vniuersall Church of God saieth Cuius hodie rector est Damasus whose ruler at this daye Damasus is This Damasus was then Pope Lo by the iudgemeÌ„t of S. Ambrose who I may be bolde to saie vnderstode the Scriptures as wel as M. Iewell the bishop of Rome is the Ruler of the vniuersall Church And how then is the Church of Rome of which the Pope is bishop a mere particular Church Verely S. Hierom calleth the faith of Rome the Catholike faith writing against Ruffinus in these wordes Fidem suam quam vocat Eam ne qua Romana pollet Ecclesia an illam quae in Origenis voluminibus coÌ„tinetur Si Romanam responderit ergo Catholici sumus Sin Origenis blasphemia illius fides est se haereticum probat What dothe he call his faith Meaneth he that faith which the Church of Rome alloweth or that which in the bookes of Origen is taught If he answer it is the faith of Rome then we be Catholikes But if Origens blasphemy be his faith he proueth him selfe an heretike Thus the faith of Rome and the Catholike faith is to S. HieroÌ„ all one Last of al S. Cyprian calleth the Church of Rome Catholicae ecclesiae radiceÌ„ matriceÌ„ The roote and mother church of the Catholike Churche Go now M. Iewell and call the Church of Rome a mere particular Church It shall be no Vntruthe neither for D. Harding nor for any man elles to call the determination of the Church of Rome the determination of the Catholike Church as longe as we haue S. Ambrose S. Hierom and S. Cyprian to saie with vs. Harding The two Disciples in Emaus as soone as they knewe Christ in breaking of the Bread he vanished away from their sighter tâ—at he tooke the Cuppe into his handes and blissed it and gaue it vnto them 56. as it appeareth euidently enough to S. Augustin to Bede and to all other that be not willfully opinatiue Iewell The .56 Vntruthe Neither S. Augustine nor Beda nor any other Auncient Father hath any such word but rather the contrary Yeas forsoth Both S. Augustin and Bede and Chrysostom an other auncient Father do teache the same Breaking of Bread to haue ben the SacrameÌ„t Which is the thing that D. Harding there affirmeth And that Christ tooke not the Cuppe at all it was no dede to alleage doctours The Scripture in that place of S. Luke is plaine Where no one worde of the Cuppe is made S. Augustin saieth of this place Non incongruenter accipimus hoc impedimentuÌ„ in oculis eoruÌ„ a Satana factuÌ„ fuisse ne agnosceretur Iesus Sed tameÌ„ a Christo facta est permissio vsque ad SacramentuÌ„â—is vt vnitate Corporis eius participata remoueri intelligatur impedimentum inimici vt Christus possit agnosci We thinke it not amisse to saye that their eyes were blinded by the Deuill so that they could not know Iesus Yet notwithstanding that was done by the permission of Christ vntill the Sacrament of the Bread To thentent that the vnite of Christes Body being participated the let of the enemy might be remoued and Christ acknowleadged This exposition yea and these very wordes of S. Augustin Bede in his commentaries vpon S. Luke foloweth and repereth As also Theophilact foloweth herein ChrysostoÌ„ whose words we shal hereafter recite and saieth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He insinuateth yet an other thinge That these Discipes participating the blissed Bread had their eies straight waies opened to knowe Christ. For the flesh of our Lorde hath a great and vnspeakeable vertu Thus lo by the iudgement of S. Augustine and Bede of Chrysostom and Theophilact that Bread which Christ gaue to the disciples in Emaus was the Sacrament of his Body Here is no one worde neither in the Scripture neither in those Doctours off the Cuppe And therfore by their iudgemeÌ„t here is a clere case of a Communion vnder One kinde Ministred by oure Sauiour him selfe And so it is proued true that Doctour Hardinge saied of a Communion vnder one kinde ministred to the disciples at Emaus What saieth M. Iewell to these Doctours He sayeth Iewell First the Breade that Christ brake at Emaus was coÌ„mon table breade and not the Sacrament S.
Iulius and was dead 278. at the left .ix. yeres before the Canons were burnte By such Doctours M. Harding vpholdeth the state of Rome StapletoÌ„ Let vs suppose it were true that Athanasius wrote to Iulius after the deathe of Marcus of the burning of those Canons of the Councell of Nice Is it not possible that those Canons were twise burnte in two sondry Copies at two sondry times Might they not be burned first in the dayes of Marcus and then hauing of him an other Copie of the Canons as by his letters to him Athanasius required that other Copie be burned in the dayes of Iulius What Contradiction or what Impossibilite is there in this matter Or howe is M. Iewell euer able to proue that suche Canons were not burnte before the time of Iulius Certainely the heresy of the Arrians troubled the Churche of Alexandria where those Canons were burnte before the dayes of Pope Iulius and Athanasius was banished in the reigne of Constantin the Greate by the meanes of the Arrians Eusebius Theognis Maris and other hauing greuous and sondry accusatyons layed against him It is not impossible nor incredible that those which founde the meanes to banishe the Bishop were also able to spoyle his library and to burne his bookes especially those Canons wherein their wicked heresy was with most waighty Authorite condemned Considered also that in the Canons nowe extant of that Generall Councell of Nice there is no one worde nor halfe worde against the Arrian heresy against the which yet that Councell was principally and chiefly assembled Thus though it were true that the Canons were burnte in the time of Iulius and that Athanasius wrote thereof vnto Iulius as M. Iewell vntruly saieth he did yet were not Athanasius theâ—fore a forgetfull lyar impudent or carelesse what he saye as it pleaseth the graue head of M. Iewell to call him but bothe sayinges might right well be true and stande together the troublous estate of the Churche of Alexandria considered as well in the dayes of Marcus Constantin yet liuyng as of Iulius in the reigne of Constantius his Son But nowe seing Athanasius writeth no suche thinge of these Canons to Iulius at the lest in the place by M. Iewell alleaged how forgetfull of his lyes how impudent is M. Iewell and howe carelesse what he saie or what he write And who will truste M. Iewell in doubtefull matters which thus deceaueth vs in plaine thinges What is Impudency if this be not For as I tolde you before M. Iewell Athanasius in his epistle Ad Orthodoxos written in the time of Iulius successour of Marcus hath no one worde of the Canons of that Councell of Nice You reporte him vntruly You deceiue your Reader Or els you were deceiued by some other whose eyes not your owne it maye seme yowe vsed in this matter For Reade the Epistle M. Iewell And if Athanasius write any one worde of the Canons of the Councell of Nice in all that Epistle let me neuer be taken for Christen man more He saieth in that Epistle Ecclesiis baptisteriis flammae iniectae Fyre was caste vpon the Churches and vpon the fountes And againe Sacros Scripturarum libros quos in Ecclesiis inueniebant comburere That the heathen and infidels burned the bookes of holye Scripture such as they founde in the Churches Of any other burning or of the Canons of the Nicene Councell there is not one worde nor halfe worde By suche Impudent Vntruthes M. Iewell will deface and bringe out of credit the wrytinges of the olde Fathers Nowe whereas you saie farder that Marcus which was bishop of Rome before Iulius was dead at the lest ix yeres before the Canons were burnte if it were true that in the time of Iulius those Canons were burnt yet it will ill folowe that it was jx yeares after the deathe of Marcus For by the best and moste exacte accomptes of Chronographers euen of Henricus PantaleoÌ„ of Basill this Marcus was Pope but two yeres and 8. moneths Which accompte is founde first in Damasus and after in Platina and diuers other The Arrians therefore committing those outrages and spoyles aboue named in Alexandria aboute the beginning of Pope Iulius in the dayes of Constantius if they had at that time also burned the Canons of the Nicene Councell whiche yet Athanasius sayed not it woulde well lacke the better halfe of jx yeres after the deathe of Marcus that those Canons were burnte Yet you adde before to proue that in the dayes of Iulius the Canons were burnte Which obseruation of time appeareth also by Socrates in his storie Iewell Yow quote in the margin of this place Socrat. lib. 2. cap. 14. Nowe verely what obseruation you can picke out of this place touching the burning of those Canons the Reader shall see and Iudge Bicause the Chapter is but shorte I will alleage the whole as it lyeth Thus lye the wordes of Socrates Aboute this time the Arrians remoued Gregory their Arrian bishopp from Alexandria as one odyous to the people bothe for the burning of a Churche and also for that he was not earnest enough in defence of their opinion And in his roome they placed George who came then from Cappadocia one that helde the doctrine of their religion This is the whole .14 Chapter of Socrates in that second booke Of the Canons of Nice he speaketh no one worde Of a Churche burned he speaketh But what Thinketh M. Iewell that the Canons of Nice were there burnte In dede such lewde Gheasses are mete to mayntayne such a lying Religion as M. Iewell defendeth But neither Socrates in any other place neither Ruffinus nor Theodoret nor Sozomenus all writing of this Arrian bishop Gregory and of his deposing do make any mention of such Canons burnte in his time Only Sozomenus openeth a litle more this matter and declareth more then any of all the other dothe what Churche and what burning that was for the which this Gregory was of his owne felowes depriued For first of the Churche whiche was burned thus he writeth Gregorius sedem Alexandrinam inuasit Quod populus molesté ferens ecclesiam quam Dyonisij vocant qui episcopus illic fuerat incendunt Gregory inuaded the See of Alexandria Whiche thinge the people taking greuously they sett a fire a Câ—urche called by the name of Denys who had sometime bene biâ—hop there This was the Churche which was burned by the intruding of that Arrian bishop and for the which also he was afterwarde partly depriued For of his depriuation thus the same Sozomenus writeth in the same booke Interca Arriani dogmaâ—is fautores c. In the meane while the Arrians remoued Gregory their bishop as being but negligent in establishyng their doctrine and one much hated of the Cytyzens of Alexandria by reason of the mischiefs that happened to the Cyte at his entring in and the burning of a Churche This is all that is writen of these ecclesiasticall writers
subiect payeth but halfe as much By such lewde reasons an euill cause must be mayntayned Iewell Now if the bishop of Iustiniana and the bishop of Rome in their seuerall diuisions haue their like authoritie and if the Churche of Constantinople in .336 all prerogatiues and priuileges be made equall with the Citie of Rome then is not the bishop of Romes powâ—r vniuersall neither can he iustly be called the head of the vnuersall Churche Yea M. Iewel if the Skie fal we may happe to catche Larkes But now M. Iewell if the bishop of Iustiniana and the bishop of Rome in their Seuerall diuisions haue not their like Authorite but the one hath it of the other the one occupieth the place of the other and that by the appoyntement of the other that is of the B. of Rome as the decree expressely saieth and if againe the Church of Constantinople be not made equall with the Citie of Rome in All prerogâ—tiues â—nd priuileges as M Iewell saieth but do enioye only a priuilege of Rome as the decree saieth then neither is the bishop of Romes Vniuersall Power empaired but so farre the more defended neither then any thinge letteth why he may not be called the Head of the Vniuersal Churche Last of all then M. Iewel hath loste a couple of good arguments Verely IustiniaÌ„ him selfe writing vnto Epiphanius the bishop of Constantinople calleth him the Vniuersall Patriarche which thinge he would not haue done 337 if he had thought that Title of right had belongâ—d to the bishop of Rome Neither dothe the bishop of Rome challenge that Title neither was it commended in any bishop though it was vsed not only to the Pope but to diuerse other some time of custome sometime for honour and reuerence to the party It seemeth the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was taken for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vniuersall for Catholike As you your selfe expounde that worde afterwarde and as all true bishoppes are called Stapleton The argument that M. Harding gathereth of Iustinians wordes is this The bisâ—op of Rome had the first place in generall Councels Ergo he was an vniuersall bishop VVhich argument what weight it beareth I leaue to M. Harding to consider Vntruthe M. Iewel For D. Harding gathereth no such argument But the argument of Hardinge is this Iustinian by that decree or edict ratified that chiefty or primacy in the bishop of Rome which the Canons had determined Ergo thâ— Emperour confirmed the Popes Primacy To this purpose he alleaged the Decree of Iustinian and the Ordonnaunce of Phocas This argument beareth such weight that all which M. Iewell hath wrote and persuaded to the contrary is not able to beare it downe For it containeth a double proufe of the Popes Primacy The determinations of the Canons and the Confirmation of the Emperour Al within the compasse of M. Iewelles .600 yeares Harding Hilarius speaking much to the extolling of Peter and his Successours in that See saieth Supereminentem fidei suae confefsione locum promeruit that for the Consession of his blessed faith he deserued a place of preeminence aboue all other Iewell The .100 Vntruthe For Hilarie speaketh not one worde of Peters successour Though S. Hilarie speake not of Peters successour nor of the See of Rome yet that which is spokeÌ„ to the extolling of Peter may truly be saied to be spoken also to the extolling of his Successour So Chrysostom saieth that Christ committed his shepe Tum Petro tum Petri successoribus Bothe to Peter and to the Successours of Peter when he saied to Peter only Fede my shepe So S. Hierom calleth Damasus the Pope the chaire of Peter vpon the which he confesseth the Church to be builded And so Hilarie extolling Peter and confessing a preeminence aboue other in him is not Vntruly saied to confesse the same in his Successours Especially seing that Christ builded a Church not to remaine in Peter only but for euer Nowe whereas M. Iewell saieth Hilarie only commendeth the faith of Peter he committeth a great Vntruthe against S. Hilarie For in the same booke he confesseth that vpon Peter him selfe Christ builded his Churche where he saieth Post sacramenti confessionem Beatus Simon aedificationi ecclesiae subiacens Blessed Simon after the coÌ„fession of the mysterie lying vnder the building of the Churche For what meaneth Hilarie to make Peter lye vnder the building of the Church but that he is the rocke and fouÌ„datioÌ„ vpoÌ„ which it pleased God to buylde and erect his Church And so of S Ciprian S. Hierom S. Augustin and other fathers Peter is called Fundamentum Ecclesiae the foundacion of the Churche not to exclude the only principall foundacion which is Christ but to confesse and signifie a strength and power neuer to faile in him and his successours It is not therfore only the Faith of Peter but also the Person of him which Hilary extolleth which also is no lesse sure then his faith bicause Christ hath praied and no doubt obtained Vt fides eius non deficiat that his faithe may not faile Hard. Locum supereminentem Hard. A place of preeminence aboue all other Iewell The .101 Vntruthe standing in false translation For M. Harding addeth of his owne aboue all other Stapl. Aboue whom then M. Iewell is that place of preeminence which Peter had Aboue some or aboue none or aboue al If aboue some only you must shewe which some those are and the reason why aboue those only If aboue none it is no preeminence at all Truly the worde Supereminentia importeth a Preeminence not meane nor common butt aboue all other And herein I dare to make any grammarian Iudge How be it what so euer the grammarian saie herein the Diuinite teacheth vs plainely so Chrisostom saieth God the Father sett Hieremie ouer one nation But Christ made Peter gouernour ouer the whole worlde Which proposition he taketh to be so true that here of he maketh an argument to proue the Equalite of the Godhead of Christ with God the Father And Gregorie saieth Cura ei totius Ecclesiae principatus committitur The charge and chiefty of the whole Churche is committed vnto him And all writers bothe grekes and latin do call Peter the Prince Head and chiefe of the Apostles If he were ouer the Apostles no doubt but he was ouer all the rest of the Churche beside And so the Diuinite is true and the translation not Vntrue which geueth a true sence to the latine worde no more then the worde it selfe beareth Hard. The same S. Augustine speaking to Bonifacius bishop of Rome This care saieth he is common to vs all that haue the office of a bishoppe albeit therein thou thy selfe hast the preminence ouer all being on the toppe of the pastorall watchetoure Iewell The 102. Vntruthe standing in the false translation and corruption of S. Augustines wordes I perceiue M. Iewel we must go to coÌ„struing we must leaue
vttered before a manifest vntruthe But nowe to the matter Yow haue confessed the wordes of S. Gregory What saie yow now vnto them Thus you saie Iewell He saied they offred to cal him so but that they called him so in dede 539 he saieth not Therefor M. Harding herein 540 ouerreacheth and missetelleth his Authors tale S. Gregorye writeth of this matter in mo places then one Therefore though in the wordes by â—ou noted he saieth not expressely The bishops of Rome were called Vniuersall bisshops by the Councell of Chalcedon yet in an other place he saieth so In a letter to Iohn of Constantinople he writeth so expressely and plainely in these wordes Nunquid non sicut vestra sanctitas nouit per venerandum Chalcedonense Concilium huius Apostolicae Sedis Antistites cui deo disponente deseruio Vniuersales oblato honore vocati sunt Were not as your holynes knoweth the bisshops of this Apostolike See whiche by the Prouidence off God I serue by the Reuerent Councell off Chalcedon Calleâ— Vniuersall Bishoppes that honour being Offred them Beholde M. Iewell and remembre youre promise at Paules Crosse. You saied there If it can be shewed out of any Olde Generall Councell that the bishop of Rome was within the first 600 Yeres Called an Vniuersall Bishop yow will yelde and Subscribe S. Gregory whome your selfe before calleth a witnâ—â— suâ—fiâ—ent whom Venerable Bede calleth Our Apostle bicause he sent vs our first preachers of Christen faithe whom the Churche hath estemed as one of the Foure doctours off the same this holy and Lerned Father telleth yowe that By the Reuerent Councell of Chalcedon his predecessours bishoppes of Rome were Called Vniuersall Bishoppes Will yow nowe come to the booke and Subscribe Will you yelde according to Promise What you will doo it is easy to Iudge But that you maye so doe for your owne sake I wish In the mean the Reader seeth both that you haue not ouerreached or missetolde but flatly belyed your Author S. Gregory and also howe D. Harding hath neither ouerreached nor missetolde his Author but hath auouched that which his Author expressely wrote But let vs take S. Gregories wordes euen as your selfe M. Iewell hath alleaged them Thus they stande The name off Vniuersall bishop was offred by the Councel of Chalcedon to the bisshop of Rome His wordes are not The Councell offred to call him so Therefore M. Iewell hathe ouerreached and missetolde his Authors tale Nowe when the Councell offred that name to the bishop of Rome I would gladly lerne of M. Iewel how and by what meanes they offred it Either they offred it by mouthe or by writinge If by writinge then they intitled him so and called him so in writing If they offred that name vnto Leo by mouthe then they spake it out to his legates for he him selfe was not present at the Councell they spake it I saie and vttered it by mouthe I trust M. Iewell will not saie The whole Councell stode vp and gaped vpon the legates and profered to speake but the legates before they spake or vttered any worde at all desired them to holde their peace and not to vtter their mindes Vnlesse they did this or some like thinge it can not be true that M. Iewell saieth They offred to call him so but it must be true that D. Harding saieth they called him so in dede and that either by mouthe or by writing For howe a name or title can be offred without it be spoken or writen I knowe not Iewell But S. Gregorie saieth further that neither Leo nor any other of his predecessours bishops of Rome woulde euer reâ—eiue that Arrogant and vngodly name or suffer him selfe to be so called notwithstaÌ„ding it were offred by the Councel The bisshops of Rome neuer vsed that name notwithstanding it were offred to them Therefore they ought to loose it by non vsure Stapleton This is a very good Conclusion M. Iewell You saie very well The bishops of Rome neuer vsed it in dede Therefor saie you they ought to loose it by non vsure On Gods name We do not desende that Name M. Iewell The Pope requireth it not but hath euer shunned it and refused it Only bicause of your rashe Challenge it hathe bene shewed that the Pope hathe bene so called off others Whiche also your selfe confesseth saying All this nothwithstanding true it is that M. Harding saieth Leo in that Councell of Chalcedon was thus called The places be knowen and may not be denied Loe gentle Reader M. Iewell nowe nothwithstandinge the Vntâ—uthe noted in his margin notwithstanding his what ifs notwithstandinge his great questioning of Canons loste and six lines burnte notwithstanding I saie all this great storming and striuing that he made before nowe he confesseth the Truthe and saieth All this notwithstanding tâ—ue it is that M. Harding saieth c. Yea he will shewe vs the very places off the Councell of Chalcedon beside the witnesse of Sainte Gregory in the whiche the Pope is called Vniuersall bishopp and not only called but saluted For thus he saieth Iewell He is so saluted in three sundry Epistles The one sent by one Athanasius a priest the other by one Ischyrion a deacon The thirde by one Theodorus likewise a deacon Lo you haue hearde M. Iewelles Confession That the Pope is saluted Vniuersall bishop in three sundry Epistles in the Actes of the Chalcedon Councell But what thinke we nowe Will M. Iewell trowe we yelde and Subscribe He confesseth him selfe the Pope was Called and saluted Vniuersall bishop in three sundry letters registred in the Councell of Chalcedon whiche Councell was holden as M. Iewell also confesseth in the yere of our Lorde 488. This was more then one whole hundred of yeares within his 600. What then Will M. Iewell Subscribe and yelde No No. He neuer meaned no such matter You shall see what shift he hathe to escape his promise He saieth Iewell But of that whole number of six hundred and thirty bisshoppes there assembled I trowe M. Harding is not well able to shew that any one euer saluted or called him so Stapleton What then M. Iewell Was your challenge made at Paules Crosse of those six hundred and thirty bishoppes assembled together in the Councell of Chalcedon Was that the tenour of your Challenge at Paules Crosse Is that Condition annexed to the wordes of your Challenge Nay you speake very largely and freely If it can be shewed owt of any olde Catholike doctour or Father or out of any olde generall Councel or out of the holy Scriptures of God or any one example of the primitiue Churche whereby it may clerely and plainely be proued that the Bishop of Rome was with in the first six hundred yeres called an Vniuersall Bishopp or Heade of the vniuersall Churche you will yelde and subscribe Nowe Sir here you haue not only a Generall Councell by the witnesse of S. Gregorye but also an Example of a Priest and
Salute and intitle the Pope of Rome a Vniuersall bishoppe and that in the presence of a whole Councell vnlesse that name and Title of righte appertayned to the bishopp of Rome Or what vantage coulde it be vnto them to make a lie and to vtter such a Title in honour of the Pope whiche did dishonour and debace all the rest of the bisshops in that sence as M. Iewell taketh Vniuersall bishop and shoulde therefore in so doing haue prouoked al the CouÌ„tell to indignation and displeasure for so iniuring them eueÌ„ to their faces Must we for M. Iewelles pleasure imagine suche a peuish absurdite or blinde bettle ignorance in those foure plaintifs of Alexandria Last of all what thinketh M. Iewell in this matter Thinketh he that those foure plaintifs of Alexandria did then first and vpon their owne heads call the bishop of Rome Vniuersall Bishop Shall we not rather thinke that in such a solenne Instrument of their humble suite and petition to the Pope and to the Councell they woulde with all diligence and truthe exactly obserue the right dewe and approued Title of the Bishop of Rome and of the whole Councell When are Titles of Magistrates exactely and truly penned but in the suites and complaintes made to Magistrates And what can more euidently proue the dewe title of a Magistrat then the approued tenour of supplications made vnto the Magistrat Or are such Titles in al priuat suites exactely kepte and in the most honorable assemblie of a whole Generall Councell not kepte Nay it is most euident by this Example of the Primitiue Churche the Pope was either by the Consent of that Councell then first or els before vsually and of right called Vniuersall bisshoppe of others though the Popes them selues to auoide the inconuenience of a wrong sence that might be gathered thereof haue neuer so intitled them selues And therefore M. Iewell to this Example of the primitiue Churche must Subscribe Iewell Therefore whereas Master Hardinge the better to put his Reader in remeÌ„braunce hath sett this note in the Margine The Bishop of Rome was called the vniuersâ—ll bishop and head of the Churche aboue a thousand yeares sithence he might with more truthe and muche better haue noted his booke thus S. Gregories wordes misalleaged the Councell falsified this onely Canon lost all the rest whole and safe A straunge priest and two porre deacons in their priuate suites for their goodes and legacies named Leo the vniuersall bishop But of the six hundred and thirty bishops that had voices in the Councell not one euer named him so Thus muche M. Hardinge might truly haue noted in the margine Stapleton If Facing and Bragging if Blasing of letters and impudent Lookes may persuade then M. Iewell hathe wonne the Price We reade of two noble men of Athens Pericles and Thucydides the one eloquent of tounge the other stronge and valiant of body that making a Combat and wrasteling the one with the other in the sight of all the people Pericles being euer caste by Thucy dides he had yet suche a sleighte that sodainly recouering him selfe he would by his eloquence persuade the people that he had geuen his felowe the fall though all they sawe with their eies that he had taken the foyle and the fall both It semeth M. Iewell hath conceiued some like vaine hope of Dame Eloquence and Impudencye her cousen that being expressely forced vpon his fonde and rashe Challenge to yeld and Subscribe by clere and expresse euidence he maye shifte yet the whole matter awaye from him selfe and to geue his aduersary the foile For this purpose he hath ouerreached the wordes of S. Gregory and hath forced the whole Councell of Chalcedon to stande gaping vpon the Popes legates and not be so hardy as to speake out their mindes when they offred Leo the name of Vniuersal bishop lest if they had spoken out M. Iewell had bene confounded Therefore he maketh S. Gregorye to saie The Counâ—ell offred to call the Pope so but calleth him not so in dede Againe he telleth the Reader of Canons lost and six lines burnte and only this poore name of Vniuersall bishop not able to be founde in the whole Councell Thirdly confessing of fine force the Truthe which before he denied and shewing how in the very CouÌ„cel the Pope was so Called Saluted and Intitled then he thinketh to debace the matter for that they were two poore deacons not Riche Bishops and a straunge priest not an Englishman borne for els I maruail why M. Iewell shoulde call any priest of all Christendom a straunge priest and againe that none of the 630. bishops called the Pope by that name Whereas yet neither his Challenge was made of those .630 bishoppes or of any bishops at all more then priestes or deacons and also the supplications of those parties and the stile thereof was bothe allowed of the bishops and by their Commaundement Regestred amonge the Actes and monuments of the Councell Last of all that all this was done in their priuate suites for their goodes as though suiters and suppliants might be suffâ—ed to vse a false flatteâ—ing stile more then the Iudges would allowe and as though that should helpe their cause and not rather greatly hinder it hauing a whole Councell of so many lerned and holy bishops assembled from all partes of the worlde to be their Iudges Which as it may well be gathered neither for their holynesse woulde dissemble and winke at suche a false flattering Title neither for their lerning coulde be ignorant what Title of right appertained to the Pope Whiche if it had bene otherwise then meete and right the plaintifs in that case had bene more likely to haue sped the worse then to haue fared the better therefore Vnlesse M. Iewel will also saye that all the whole Councell was either lead by flattery or blinded with ignorance and that he onely walketh vpright and seeth all Therefore the marginall note of D. Harding is true that aboue a thousand yeares past The Pope was Called Intitled and Saluted the Vniuersall Bishop Wherefore M. Iewell muste Subscribe There is no remedy Harding Sundrie holy Martyrs bishops of Rome vsed to call them selues bishops of the vniuersall Churche whiche in effect is the same as the Fathers of Chalcedon vnderstoode Iewell The 119. Vntruthe For these names importe not one thinge as shall appeare The name of Vniuersall bishop and of bishop of the Vniuersall Church as the Fathers of the Councell of Chalcedon vnderstode vniuersall bishopp are in effect all one Howe shewe you the contrary Iewell If an vniuersall bisshop and a bisshop of the Vniuersall Church be 541 all one thinge how then is it true that S. Gregory saieth none of my predecessours woulde euer consent to this name Or how can he finde such fault with the name of vniuersall bisshop and beare so easely with the name of Bisshop of the vniuersall Churche which he knewe his predecessours had vsed if he tooke
The Mysticall Breade is made vnto vs by a certaine and knowen Consecration Such Consecration the CoÌ„munion bokes haue not And though in the Masse booke no mention thereof be made yet the order thereof being so many hundred yeres before taken such speciall mention is not nowe nedefull or required But the Communion bookes containing a new order of the Ministration if therin they had vsed any CoÌ„secration at al that being one principal parte of Christes Institution they ought to haue expressed the same Howbeit certaine it is not only by that they make no mention thereof but also by that they geue the remnant of their bread to the dogges that they vse no Consecration at all but accompte it as very coÌ„mon bread Likewise the wine that is left either the Minister drinketh it with his common meate or if very litle remaineth it is cast in the flowre as Poynet a late preteÌ„ded bishop of Winchester did in an open Communion ministred in the Cathedrall Church of Winchester By these their doinges saie and pretende what they lift in wordes all the worlde seeth and knoweth they vse no ConsecratioÌ„ at al. For good and euident proof thereof I â—eferre the studious Reader to the treatise of our lordes Supper lately sette forthe by D. Sanders In the seconde booke the xiiij Chapter it is proued that the figuratiue doctrine of M. Iewell and his felowes can not stande with a Sacrament which hath Consecration Harding The number of communicants together in one place is no parte of Christes institution Iewell The 15. Vntruthe For S. Basill thinketh the number is parte of Christes institution Exercitationis ad pâ—etatem Sermone 4. StapletoÌ„ Would God M. Iewell as to proue the Institution of Christ you alleage onely the iudgement of S. Basill so you would stande to his onely iudgement or to the iudgement of the lerned Fathers in other matters But S. Basill saieth no such thinge This he saieth in the place by you alleaged Spiritualis lex non pauciores quam duodecim esse vult mysticum pastha comedentes The spirituall lawe admitteth no lesse then twelue to eate the mysticall passeouer Now M. Iewell is this the Institution of Christ or is it not If it be why then do you in your Communion bookes take an expresse order that three may make a sufficient Communion Why breake you the Institution of Christ in the very springe of your ghospel If it be not the Institution of Christ nor S. Basill meant no such thinge why speake you so Vntruly why saie you S. Basill thinketh the number is parte of Christes Institution For other wordes tending to any such purpose in al that Sermon he hath none But S. Basill his meaning is this He willeth that such as take vpon them the contemplatiue life should liue in some number together and not vnder ten or twelue in a company that their life and behauiour might be voide of all sinister suspicion For that purpose he bringeth the exaÌ„ple of the twelue at Christes maunde where that most holy mysteries were wrought But as touching the matter it selfe whether a number of communicants be parte of Christes Institution Brefely thus I saie Christ gaue it to a number Christ gaue it after meate Christ gaue it at night time You with vs do confesse the two later pointes to be no Partes of Christes Institution You geue it neither after meate neither at night time but in the fore noone and before all other meates Why so Forsothe bicause bothe you and we beleue as S. Augustin did quòd si hoc monuisset Christus eum morem nemo variasset that if Christ had commaunded that no man would haue chaunged that maner Wherein S. Augustin and we bothe haue left the fact of Christ and folowed the tradition of the Church beleuing vpon the custome of the Church that the same fact of Christ was no CoÌ„mauÌ„dment Right so M. Iewel bicause the Church of Christ so many hundred yeares hath celebrated this holy Sacrament without a number of communicaÌ„ts we beleue verely that Christ neuer commaunded a number in this celebration and we beleue that if he had so commaunded eum morem nemo variasset no man would haue chaunged that maner or order This is our belefe M. Iewell grounded vpon the Doctrine of the Church which we are assured by holy Scriptures as I haue otherwheres at large proued can not erre in the faith but must for euer not only v. or vj. C. yeares as it shal please you to appoint continew in sounde and vpright doctrine Your opinion to the coÌ„trary procedeth by schismaticall departing from the Church Harding The maner number and other rites of receiuing is not fixed nor determined by the InstitutioÌ„ of Christ but ordred by the Churches disposition Iewell The 16. Vntruthe Christ appointed a number although no certain fixed numbre StapletoÌ„ If it be truly saied Christ appointed no certain fixed numbre why note you it for an Vntruthe The number is not fixed by the Institution of Christ What difference is there in those two sayinges Or is the one true bicause M. Iewell saieth it and the other Vntrue bicause D. Harding saieth it But how proue you M. Iewel that Christ appointed a number and yet no certain number Bicause Christ saied Take ye eate ye drinke ye all diuide ye amonge your selues doe ye this in my remembraunce All this was saied to a certain numbre as to twelue By these textes therefore if these textes be a Commaundement you must haue no lesse then twelue at a Communion Now three by the Communion booke are sufficient But as ye vrge al these textes so we may vrge you with vespere facto Caenantibus eis discumbebat cum duodecim At euening time as they supped he sate downe with the twelue and so forth we may vrge you I saye with these and saye You breake Christes institution You do it not at euening time You do it not after supper You sitt not but knele at it You haue sometime lesse sometime more then twelue to communicat and those not all waies priests as the Apostles were What answer you to this Is not all this the Scripture Is not all this writen of the Euangelistes Is not all this reported in the ghospell euen in the very same place where the rest of Christes InstitutioÌ„ touching this blessed Sacrament is writen Why then are not these partes also of Christes InstitutioÌ„ or why omitt you them as no partes thereof Why is not the fact of Christ as well a Commaundement as his wordes Diuide ye c What can you saye here but that the Practise of Christes Church hath declared that al these of time and place be no substantiall Partes of Christes Institution but Circumstances accidentall and casull Cerimonies Euen so we answer you that the Church also hath declared vs by the Practise of many hundred yeares the number to be no part of Christes Institution We
vniuersa preces fundebat Beside all other giftes of prophecy of healing and of tounges there was also a gifte of praier whiche was called the gifte of the Spirit He that had this gifte praied for the whole multitude And he geueth hereof the reason shewing also the maner in these wordes For whereas not knowing what is good for vs we aske many thinges of God that are not profitable for vs this gifte of praier came vpon some one of them whiche then liued who for suche thinges as might be profitable for the whole congregation bothe stoode him selfe and praied for all the other and also taught the other The Apostle therefore here calleth by the name of Spirit bothe suche a gifte and also that soule which receiued such gifte and praied vnto God and mourned For he that was founde worthy of this gifte standing vpp withe great compunction off minde and also with much lamentation such lamentation I saie as from the harte lyeth prostrat before God and praieth for all suche thinges as are behoofull for the congregation Of the whiche maner the deacon at this daye is a token praying for all the people Thus farre Chrysostome This praying by the waie of a miraculous gifte was no sett ordinary and appointed Seruice to be readen out of the booke as nowe we haue it and as in Chrysostoms time it was but a maner of miraculous praying vpon the sooden so as the Spirit moued Againe he that had this gifte of praying did not onely praye him selfe but also alios edocebat he taught and instructed other To praie it was not requisit he should be vnderstanded For that was done gemitibus ijs qui ipsa quidem mente deo se prosternunt by sighynges suche as from the harte doo prostrat them selues before God But to teache other it was necessary that he shoulde be vnderstanded Therefore when anye man vsed that gifte of prayer withe the gifte of tounges together praying in a straunge tounge without prophetia the gifte of vnderstanding added thereunto he spake mysteries he prayed to God he edified him selfe he prayed in Spirit But he edified not the hearers he praied not mente in minde and vnderstanding When he so praied the lerned him selfe whiche supplied the roome of the ignorant did not vnderstande him nor coulde not answer Amen to his praier Why Bicause he praied in a straunge tounge bicause he vsed or rather abused touching the edifying of other the miraculous gifte of tounges And therefore the Apostle immediatly sayeth which wordes also M. Iewell hath quite in his text left out and so deceuied ones againe his Reader For thou geuest thankes well but the othâ—r is not edâ—fied that is as Chrisostom expoundeth spiritu concitatus sonas thou geuest out a sounde being stirred vp with the Spirite as Theodoretus expoundeth it Thou praisâ—st God being moued with that diuine gifte but he that heareth thee is no whit edified So Oecumenius saieth The Apostle referring worthy praise to the gifte of tounges saieth For thou geuest thankes well c. Thus by the minde of these lerned Fathers all this geuing of thankes and blessing in the Spirit or in a strange tounge is a geuing of thankes or blessing by the waie of that miraculous gifte of tounges not by vsing the sett and ordinary Seruice in any lerned or Common tounge knowen to the lerned that supplieth the roome of the Ignorant The Apostle in all this Chapter speaketh of no such Matter You see therefore good Readers howe fittely and truly M. Iewell and his felowes do alleage this place of S. Paule against the Seruice in a common lerned tounge suche as the Greke tounge is to the Greke Churche and the Latin to the Latin Churche But let vs graunte a while to M. Iewell that S. Paule hath all this while spoken of the Seruice in a lerned tounge vnknowen to the Common ignorant people let vs I saie for a while graunte it against the exposition of so many lerned Fathers and against the very euidence of S. Paules text Yet S. Paule saieth of such a one as so praieth Tu quidem bene gratias agis Thou geuest thankes well Nay saieth M. Iewell It is a maruailous miracle that any man will be so wicked as so to vse it These are your very wordes M. Iewell aboute the beginning of your text vpon this Vntruthe Nowe I aske you M. Iewell Did S. Paule speake in this place of praying in a straunge tounge by waie of the miraculous gifte which the speaker him selfe sometime vnderstode not and which was done by some one man moued thereunto vpon the soden Did he speake it of praying in a lerned tounge though vnderstanded of the speaker him selfe yet not vnderstanded of the Common people and ordinarely vsed for the Seruice of the Churche If the firste then what maketh this for your vulgar Seruice then why doe you bringe it here against the Seruice in a lerâ—ed tounge then why do you and your felowes all so stoutely applie this place to proue that the Seruice ought to be in the Vulgar tounge Last of all then howe do you bringe that miraculous praying of some one man moued thereunto by the Spirit against the Ordinary sett Seruice of Gods Churche If the seconde why do you call that wicked so to be vsed and those men impudent which wâ—lâ— defena â—â— which the Apostle in expresse wordes saieth was VVell done Answer to this dilemma M. Iewell with all the shiftes phrases gloses and euasions that you can possibly deuise I thinke the best answer that you can make is to prouide that our bookes be stayed at Grauesende and the worlde may neuer see your nakednesse wickednesse and abominations Before I come to the rest of the wordes which you haue alleaged oute of S. Paule I muste put the wordes whiche goe before left out by you againe fraudulently M. Iewell I saie Fraudulently bicause the concealing of them hathe hindered the truthe as it shall nowe appeare After that S. Paule had saied Thou geuest well thankes but the other is not edified it foloweth I thanke God that I speake my selfe also with the tounge of you all that is as Chrysostom expoundeth it Theodoretus also and Oecumenius I haue the gifte of tounges more then any of you all But I had leuer here beginneth M. Iewell leauing out also the worde But to speake fiue wordes with my minde so that I may instructe others then tenne thousand wordes with my tounge Then it foloweth after many sentences which M. Iewell straight adioyneth let all thinges be done to the edâ—fâ—ing of the people And yet the wordes of the people are not the wordes of S. Paule Now what meaneth the Apostle in these wordes Forsothe he prosecuteth the vsing of the miraculous gifte of tonges I my selfe saieth S. Paul can speake in as many straunge tounges as anye of you all or as the grekes do reade Magis quà m omnes vos linguis
This common tounge he that vnderstode not was called Idiota the ignorant saieth Sedulius Vpon this distinction of straunge tounges it is euident that though the Apostle by the waye off an example blameth the blessing at Common prayer made in a straunge tounge that yet he meaneth not by that straunge tounge that whiche is the Common lerned tounge of the Churche and whiche he that supplieth the roome of the ignorant is acquaynted with all though it be a tounge of the ignorant him selfe not vnderstanded but that he meaneth therby such a straunge tounge as was vsed by the miraculous gifte of speaking withe tounges and whiche was so straunge that neither the ignorant nor he that supplied the roome of the ignorant vnderstode yea and the whiche the Minister or priest him selfe vnderstode not Therefore Chrysostome saieth If thou geue thankes in a straunge tounge which nâ—ither thou doest vnderstande thy selfe nor doest interpret vnto other suche was not the Common lerned tounge whiche euerye Minister in the Apostles time vnderstode right well subijcere Amen plebis non potest He that is of the people can not awnswere Amen and when thou saiest secula seculorum which is the end of the praier he that heareth thee will not saye Amen For why Thou talkest in a tounge vtterly straunge whiche thy selfe vnderstandest not This was not the Common lerned tounge which bothe then and now euery priest vnderstandeth but it was a straunge tonge vsed by the miraculous gifte of the holy Ghoste To awnswer therfore shortly to the obiection made I saie The Chiefe disputation of the Apostle in that Chapter is not of straunge tounges vsed at the Oblation and praier but at the Sermons and preaching Therfore his disputation in that place toucheth nothing the Seruice of Christes Churche now vsed in the Common lerned tounge Secondarely the Apostle though he speaketh by the waye of an example of the Common praier vsed in a straunge tounge yet he meaneth that straunge tounge whiche was vsed by the waye of miracâ—â—ous gifte he meaneth not the Common lerned tounge which to him that supplieth the roome of the ignorant whose duty it is to awnswer Amen is not straunge though to the ignorant him selfe it be perhappes straunge that is not vtterly vnknowen but not distinctly vnderstanded The thirde awnswere maye be that the same blessing in Spirit in a straunge tounge whiche the Apostle by the waye of example bringeth in though it was done in the CoÌ„mon praier yet that blessing was no parte of the Common praier sett in bookes and ordinarely vsed as we haue it nowe and as in Chrysostomes time they had it but it was a blessing or thankes geuing that some one of the Congregation vsed vpon the soden being moued and stirred thereunto by the Spirit as we haue before out of Chrysostome proued at large By all this it maye appeare that this fourtenth Chapter of the firste to the Corinthians as of M. Iewell and all his felowes not onely vnfittely but very grossely and ignorantly applied to proue their Vulgar Seruice What will they saie if it maye nowe be proued out of Saint Paule that in the publicque praiers of the Church as no strange tounge is to be vsed which he that praieth or he that in stede of the ignorant dothe answer can not vnderstande so also no mere Vulgar tounge must be vsed Let vs consider the rest of Saint Paules comparisons and examples in this place of the whiche Bâ—nedicere Spiritu to blesse or praie openlye in Spirit that is in a straunge miraculous tounge is one The musicall instrument must haue a certain and proper time But for whose sake Forsothe only for his whiche hath skill in that arte to whom euery light discorde is a great anoying The Trumpet geueth out a certaine propre and distincte sounde But to whom To the souldyar which is acquaynted therwith and who hathe lerned to guide him selfe thereafter To other men the sounde of it signifieth nothing Againe if I speake or talke priuatly with one I must speake to an English man in English to a Frenche man in Frenche and so forthe If my talke be to a Frenche man though all that stande about be English and vnderstande onely Englishe yet I will speake Frenche only bicause my talke is to none but to him Fourthly if I praie priuatly to my selfe and will praie mente in the minde my wordes muste be suche that I my selfe maye vnderstande And then if I vnderstande Greke Frenche or Latine I maye praye in Greke Frenche or Latine though an other perhaps shoulde not vnderstande that praier For why I praie in this case by my selfe alone Laste of all to come to the last comparison which the Apostle vseth of publike praier if I blesse or geue thankes in the publike Seruice I must be vnderstanded But of whom Of all the people That is not necessary But of him or them whiche ought to make answer and to whome I speake in that publike office Who is that by the worde of the Apostle Not idiota but qui supplet locum idiotae Not the ignorant suche as promiscuâ— plâ—bs common people saieth Sedulius is but it is he that supplieth the roome of the ignorant which is lerned whiche hath skill of the Common lerned tounge He muste make awnswer to him I speake in the publike praier He therfore must vnderstande me Nowe that he maye answer me and that he maye vnderstand me I nede no more to vse the Vulgar tounge then the Musicion the Trumpetter the talker or the priuat praier nede to applie his musike to blowe his trumpet to vtter his talke and to praie after suche a sorte as all other maye vnderstande and take profit by But only it suffiseth that he which supplieth the roome of the ignorant doe vnderstande me it suffiseth that I speake in the Common lerned tounge which he is acquaynted withall euen as the Musicion plaieth to please the skilfull the Trumpetter bloweth to geue warning to the souldiar and so forthe Mary to preache as I then direct my talke to the whole people so it is nccessarye that I speake in such a language as all the people maye vnderstande me And so the Churche of Christe doth and allwaies hathe done as well in the one as in the other Thus the disputation of Sainte Paule in this place not onelye helpeth nothing your Vulgar Seruice M. Iewell but I may saye to you it geueth a greate cracke thereunto Let nowe euerye indifferent Reader Iudge whether the Latine Seruice be vsed in the Latine Churche withe the breache of S. Paules Doctrine as you moste wickedly and fondle doe bable at Paules Crosse and as yowe M. Iewell in this your facing Replie doo impudently bragge and crake Iewell And yet must we vpon M. Hardinges warrant nedes beleue that all this maketh nothinge for the Englishe Seruice in the Church of England Not vpon D. Hardinges warrant but vpon the warrant off the
of God is not obeied and that one Priest for the time not be Churche and one Iudge for the time insteede of Christ is not thought vpon Iewell The .94 Vntruthe For S. Ciprian speaketh these wordes of euery seuerall Bishop not only of the Bishop of Rome Stapletō If S. Ciprian speake not only of the Bishop of Rome as you confesse he doth M. Iewell then he speaketh of the Bishop of Rome D. Harding saieth no more in the wordes alleaged Ergo it is no Vntruthe that he saied Againe D. Harding meaned not that this place of S. Ciprian should be spoken only of the Bishop of Rome but that it is also well and truly vnderstanded of euery Seuerall Bishop in his owne Dyocesse not only of of the Bishop of Rome Therefore in this point D. Harding and M. Iewell do agree And therefore it is no Vntruthe in the one except it be in bothe Harding To whom if the whole brotherhood that is the whole number of Christian people which be brethern togeather and were so called in the primitiue Churche woulde be obedient c. Iewell The .95 Vntruthe Standing in the manifest corruption and falsifying of S. Ciprian Stapletō Where probabilite and reason leadeth vs to the contrary there is no manifest corruption or falsifying of the writer Manifest corruption importeth a wilfull and purposed guile No such to haue bene in this place if I talked with a Bishop of Sarrisbery and not with M. Iewell I durst to make him Iudge For first if this place be meant not only of euery seuerall Bishop but of the Bishop of Rome also by M. Iewelles owne graunte then being with vs Catholikes a sure and vndoubted truthe that the whole brotherhood subiect to the Bishop of Rome is the whole number of Christian people to interpret that whole brotherhood as D. Harding doth for the whole number of Christen people it is so farre from any manifest corruption or falsyfying that it is no corruption o◠falsyfying at all If M. Iewell will saye that this presupposed opinion of the whole brotherhood that is of the whole number of Christian people subiect to the Bishop of Rome is a wronge and false opinion he shall vnderstande our opinion herein is such as we haue lerned of the holy Fathers of Christes Churche Chrysostom saieth Christ did shead his bloud to redeme those shepe the charge of whom he committed bothe to Peter and to the successours of Peter I trust M. Iewell will exclude no parte of Christen people from these shepe which Christ with his bloud redemed Then by Chrisostoms iudgement are all Christen people the flocke not only of Peter but of Peters successours also who are the Bishoppes of Rome S. Ambrose speaking of the Church which S. Paule calleth the Piller and grounde of truthe addeth Cuius hodie Rector est Damasus The ruler of which Churche at this daye is Damasus who then was Pope of Rome This Church which is the piller and grounde of truthe is no particular Churche or parte of Christes flocke but the Vniuersall Churche and the whole number of Christen people Venerable Bede calleth the Pope S. Gregory praelatum Ecclesijs iamdudum ad fidem conuersis gouuerner of the Churches lately conuerted to the faithe From those Churches none are excluded S. Hierom saithe that Christ made Peter the Master of his house that vnder one shepheard there may be one faithe In the house of Christ and vnder one shepeard is one brotherhood the whole number of Christen people Thus then to interpret the whole brotherhood subiect to the Bishop of Rome for the whole number of Christen people as D. Hardinge doth is no Vntruthe at all nor no falsyfying of S Ciprian at all seing that by M. Iewelles owne graunt S. Ciprian speaketh there as wel of the Bishop of Rome as of other Bishops Harding Amonge the Canons made by the 318. Bishops at the Nicene Councel which were in number 70. 96. and all burnt by Heretikes in the East Churche saue xx c. Iewell The .96 Vntruthe ioyned with folie as shall appeare Stapletō If this be an Vntruthe and that ioyned with a folie then haue you your selfe M. Iewell vttered an Vntruthe and that with a folie For these are your owne wordes M. Iewell in your text folowing Iewell The true Athanasius him selfe of whom we make no doubte saieth that the Arrians of Alexandria burnte the Catholike mens bookes and 276 therewithall the Canons of the Councell of Nice in the time of the Emperour Constantius Iulius being then Bishop of Rome Stapletō And for this purpose you quote vnto vs in the margin Athanasius in Epist. ad Orthodoxos Now M. Iewell though this be a manifest Vntruthe that you reporte of that Epistle of Athanasius for in that whole Epistle there is no one worde of the Canons of the Councell of Nice reade and see the Epistle who list yet it is a farre ouersight in you to note that for an Vntruthe in D. Harding which your selfe auoucheth afterwardes for certain and true Thus we might shortly Returne vpon you this Vntruthe by your owne assertion affirming the same But bicause one Vntruthe is not well defended by an other Vntruthe though the aduersary may so be answered we tell you therefore againe that such Canons and in the number aboue mencioned were burnt in Alexandria by the Arrians We bringe for witnesse thereof the Epistle of Athansius and other Bishops writing so to Marcus the Pope of Rome and complaining thereof in their letter to him We bringe you also an Epistle of Iulius the Pope liuing at the very time of the Nicene Councel writing to the Bishops of the East such as had them selues bene at the Councell and reporting in that Epistle to the number of .xxiiij. Canons beside the twenty which commonly are to be read in that Councell Beside all this many other Canons are alleaged as of the Nicene Councell by diuerse of the Fathers which are not at this present to be founde in the Nicene Councell Diuerse of which Canons are particularly mencioned gathered together and sett forthe of late against M. Nowell It shall not nede here to repete them To that place I referre the Reader Is not all this sufficient to proue that such Canons were loste Is not Athanasius and Iulius sufficient to clere D. Harding of this Vntruthe No. M. Iewell will finde a shifte for them bothe What is that First as touching the Epistle of Athanasius to Marcus he saieth it is forged But how doth he proue that For sothe after that he had affirmed as you hearde in his wordes before that the true Athanasius writeth of the burning of these Canons to Iulius the Pope he addeth Iewell But M. Hardinges Athanasius is either so forgetfull or his 277. lies or so impudent and carelesse what he saie that he maketh piteous complainte of the same burning vnto Marcus that was Bishop in Rome before
had finished but in dede for the ouerthrowing and vndoing of the Nicene Councell To this Synod there were assembled out of diuerse Cities the number of fourscore and ten bishoppes Yet Maximus bishoppe of Hierusalem and successour to Macarius was not present thereat fearing that he might be forced by some guile to subscribe to the condemnation of Athanasius No neither Iulius the Bishoppe of the greatest Rome was present neither hâ—d sent anye legate in his place VVhereas yet the Ecclesiasticall Rule dothe commaunde that besyde the Authoritye off the Bishoppe ofâ— Rome no Councelles ought to be celebrated Lo M. Iewell A Councell holden of fourescore and ten bisshops a Concell holden in Syria in the East Church wel nere twise furder from Rome then England holden in the yeare of our Lorde .346 more then twelue hundred yeares sence and in that same Councell holden of so many bishops so farre from Rome so many hundred yeres sence the Authorite of the bisshop of Rome by commaundement of an Ecclesiasticall rule or Canon required If his Authority was required thereunto and that by the vertu of an ecclesiasticall Rule or Canon shall it be yet vntrue that the Pope had then Authorite to summon and approue Councels Is not this argument good M. Iewell No parliament can be holdem without the authorite of the Quenes Maiesty Ergo the Quenes Maiesty hath Authority to call a parliament And then is not this as good No Councel ought to be celebrated without the Authorite of â—he bishop of Rome Ergo the bishoppe off Rome hathe Authoritye to call a Councell Vnlesse M. Iewell will saie that though he haue Authoryte to celebrat yet he hath no authoryte to Summon it the summoâ—ing being lesse then the celebrating and the authorite off celebrating without the authorite of summoning being none at all Els what a mockery were this The Prince hath authority to holde a parliament but he may not call a parliament except it please the subiects Such rebelles argumentes may helpe M. Iewell Other helpe or shifte here he hathe none Againe to put more force to this matter the history sayeth that the Ecclesiasticall rule or Canon dothe commaunde that no Councelles be holden withoute the Authoritye of the Pope I aske M. Iewell Where was this ecclesiasticall rule or Canon decreed There was no general Councell before that time but the first Nicene Councell The great Councell of Sardica was helde certaine yeares after though in the time of this Iulius as it appeareth euidently by the auncient stories and by the new Chronographies It coulde be no Canon of any prouinciall Councell that should make such a generall decree to binde Syria it selfe and al the East to the Authorite of the bishop of Rome I aske M. Iewell then by the waie where was that Canon decreed Let him scoure out his note bookes let him examine the Centuries of the Magdeburgenses let him looke to the common approued tomes of the Councell he shall finde it no where decreed before that tyme but in the Nicene Councell and in the Nicene Councell he shall finde it decreed not in the imperfect copies commonly extant nor in the corrupted authentikes alleaged of the Africanes against pope Zosimus But he shall finde it in the epistle of Iulius this same Pope here mentioned to these same Arrian Bishoppes of the Easte For in that epistle complayning of their schismaticall Synod and blaming them therefore that neither he nor any in his place was present thereat he geueth the reason saying Canonibus quippe in Nicena Synodo iubentibus c. Seing the Canons in the Nicene Councell do commaunde that without the Authorite of the bishopp of Rome Councells in any wise ought not to be celebrated nor bishops be condemned Nowe to this testimony of the ecclesiastical storie and to the Canon or decree off the Nicene Councell as it nowe appeareth to be alleaged what answereth M. Iewel He putteth it for an Vntruthe that the Pope had no such Authorite But what doth he answer then to the examples alleaged by D. Harding and namely to this testimony of the Ecclesiasticall story Vndoubtedly this testimony went euen to the hart of M. Iewell And being not able otherwise to answer it he stormed and tooke on about the translation off it as you haue hearde but to the story it selfe what saieth he nowe Iewell Touching the storie he saieth The Arrians Councels were not allowed for that they were not Summoned by the Pope Stapleton Yea M. Iewel D. Harding saieth so in dede but that is not all that he saieth He saieth Not summoned nor approued Not forcing so much the formall summoning but the materiall approuing Well Howe proue you the contrary Howe proue you that the Arrians Councels were not disanulled for lacke of the Popes authorite Howe proue you the Vntruthe which you haue noted Thus you proue it Iewell Yet he knoweth right wel it was no part of the Popes office in those daies to Sumon Councelles Must D. Hardinges knowleadge be M. Iewelles proufe Answer to the point M. Iewell Answer to the testimony off the ecclesiastical story Proue the examples alleaged to be false You tolde the readers before that D. Harding hath committed two Vntruthes The one in his translation in the english the other in the allegation of the Storie The Reader see now that you haue mocked him before in the one And will you mocke him so nowe in the other Verely you deale herein as weake reasoners and simple logicioners do in scoles WheÌ„ they are not able to answer to the argument they will make argumentes of their owne to the contrary and tell a longe tale for the part they defende and so seme to answer But the great philosopher Aristotle in his rules off reasoning hath taught you M. Iewell that contra opponere non est respondere To make argument of the contrary is not to answer Yet let vs see what you can bringe to the contrary And the lawe saieth Retorsione criminum non probatur innocentia By recharging the Aduersary a mans owne innocency is not proued Iewell â—oâ— it is euident by the police and practise of that time that Constantinus tâ—e Emperour summoned the Councel of Nice Not he alone nor by his only Authorite but as Ruffinus writeth ex sententia sacerdotum by the aduise and Authorite off the bishoppes Iewell Theodosius the first the Councell of Constantinople The bishops of that Councell auouche the contrary For thus they write to Damasus the Pope 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 We assembled our selues to Constantinople by the late letters off your honour sent vnto the most godly Emperour Theodosius In these wordes they coÌ„fesse they were Summoned by the letters off Damasus the Pope to the Councell M. Iewell saiethe the Emperour did Summon them not the Pope Let the Reader consider who is more to be credited Iewell Theodosius the second the Councell of Ephesus Stapleton Euagrius writeth that whereas Nestorius the heretike woulde not
holy Fathers Sainte Chrysostome Theodoretus S. Ambrose Primasius Sedulius and Oecumenius aboue alleaged yowe muste so beleue if yowe will be a Childe of those Fathers M. Iewell Harding And for as much as all the people can not heare the priestes praiers at the Aultar which hath froÌ„ the Apostles time hetherto euer ben a place to celebrat the oblation at turning him selfe for the moste parte to the East according to the Apostolike traditioÌ„ in what tounge so euer they be vttered for distaunce of the place they remayne in it is no incoÌ„uenience suche admitted in to the Quire as haue better-vnderstanding of that is saied or songe that the rest reâ—aâ—ne in semely wise in the neither parte of the Churche c. Iewell The 82. Vntruthe The Aultars or Common Tables stoode in the middes of the Churche as shall appeare No man saieth the contrary M. Iewell We knowe in Auncient Churches at Ments in Germany and in diuers Cities in Italye especially in Rome it selfe diuers Aultars stoâ—de at this daye towarde the middle of the Churche so that the priest at Masse hath his face to the people as we haue sene in those places Neither doth D. Harding say that the Aultars stoode otherwise in the Apostles time Only he saieth Aultars haue bene euer sence the Apostles time Nowe M. Iewell to shewe his good will to D. Harding and to vtter some Copie of his knowleadg maketh D. Harding to saie that he doth not saye to make an vntruthe where none is and to proâ—e that no man denieth Therefore in repeting the wordes of D. Harding he altereth them in to sondry Frames and facions to picke matter of quarelling and to multiplie vntruthes and saieth Iewell There haue bene Aultars saieth M. Harding euen from the Apostles time Stapleton It is true he saieth so and saieth it truly as shall appeare Iewell And that as it is vsed nowe farre of from the Body of the Churche That is not true D. Harding saieth it not His wordes may be sene before alleaged Iewell Neither could the people beneathe heare the priest standing aboue at the Aultar Iewell This is an other Vntruthe D. Harding speaketh of no such maner in the Apostles time Or vnderstande what he meant This is the thirde Vntruthe touching the Astostles time But only were instructed by holy reuerend Ceremonies This is the fourth Vntruthe Neither D. Harding saieth so nor any maneâ—â— For beside Ceremonies the people by preaching is taught Iewell And gaue consent vnto all that was saied by the priest and yet knewe not what be sayed This maketh the fifte Vntruthe D. Harding saieth no such matter Nowe after that M. Iewell hathe charged D. Harding withe all these propositions as if he had affirmed them eche one printing them all in a distinct letter as the wordes of D. Harding then he crieth out and saieth Iewell This man coulde neuer vtter so many Vntruthes together without some speciall priuilege O M. Iewell You coulde neuer haue auouched so manye Vntruthes of your own nor so vntruly haue charged D. Harding withe suche a Number but that your booke was printed VVithe Special Priuilege And now we vnderstande M. Iewell why your booke is come forthe more then other bookes are VVithe Speciall Priuilege Forsothe as it maye seme bicause you might vtter your Vntruthes with some special priuilege For without some speciall priuilege you saie D. Harding coulde neuer haue vttered so many Vntruthes You did well therfore M. Iewel to get you a Special Priuilege For the better auouching of your so special and so many Vntruthes Nowe touching Aultars which D. Harding saieth haue bene sence the Apostles time and you denie what haue you to the contrary You saye Iewell There were no Churches in the Apostles time And shall we thinke that Aultars were builte before the Churches StapletoÌ„ This is a good Masons reason in dede But it is no reason of a diuine and much lesse of a bishopp as â—ou write your selfe For how saie you M. bishop Your brethern of Frauâ—ce how minister they the Communion without Churches With you as you saie after an aultar and a holy table is al one How saie you then Thinke you they minister without tables bicause they haue no Churches Or if they haue holy tables without Churches bicause they haue a Communion thinke you the Apostles had no Aultars bicause they had no Churches hauing yet a Sacrifice You knowe M. Iewell An aultar in greke is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as much English as The place of a Sacrifice Then to proue the Apostles had no aultars if you will reason like a diuine this is a good reason They had no Sacrifice ergo they had no aultars But you knewe it was a harder matter to proue that they had Churches then that they had a Sacrifice And therfore you had rather to reason like a Mason then like a diuine How beit that there were Churches built euen in the Apostles time certain olde Churches yet standing in Fraunce do beare witnesse As at Orleans a Church called yet S. Pierre le vif bicause it was builded S. Peter yet liuing And an other at Paris called S. Estienne de grâ—â—s bicause it was builded by S. Denys and his coÌ„panyons which were grekes in the honour of S. Steuen Verely of aultars in the Apostles time Martialis Dyonisius Areopagita and Ignatius lyuing all with the Apostles do testifie Martialis saieth Sacrificium deo creatori Offertur in ara noÌ„ homini neque Angelo A Sacrifice is offred vnto God the Creatour vpoÌ„ an Aultar not to maÌ„ nor to Angel Ignatius saieth Vnum est altare toti Ecclesiae The whole Church hath one Aultar Dyonisius Areopagita writeth of the bishopp going Doune froÌ„ the Aultar to the nether parte of the Church with incense ac rursum ad altare ipsum sacrificij consummandi causa reremeantem and then returning vp againe to the Aultar to make an ende of the Sacrifice That Origen and Arnobius whom M. Iewell alleageth affirmeth the Christians to haue neque aras neque templae neither aultars nor churches they meane the Christians had none such in honour of stockes and stones not that they had none at al. Els by the same reason M. Iewel may plucke downe churches as he hath done aultars bicause those doctours saie the Christians had no churches S. Augustin herein speaketh very notably saying They which vnderstande Christian letters of bothe testamentes finde no faulte in the wicked rites of Paganes they build Churchâ— ordaine priesthoods and offer sacrifices but for that they do these thinges in the honour of idolles and diuels Last of all we confesse and knowe the Aultar is commonly called the holy table amonge the Doctours bicause of the heaueÌ„ly banquet ministred therein But an aultar or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the very sacrifyce Therfore the plucking doune of aultars is not hereticall bicause the stone
is broken but bicause the externall Sacrifice is denied the true proper and due worshippe of Allmighty God as S. Augustin vehemently and at large proueth in his bookes de Ciuitate dei For the priest vnderstandeth it for the better part if he be lerned and 83 the people be not vtterly ignorant Bicause of often preaching longe custome solemne feastes and sundry Ceremonies Iewell The 83. Vntruthe For the simple people vnderstandeth not one worde or syllable of the latine tounge How hangeth this reason of youres M. Iewell The people vnderstandeth no one Syllable of the latine tounge Ergo neither by often preaching nor by longe custom nor by solemne festes nor by Ceremonies they vnderstande not the Seruice The fondnesse hererof wil easely appeare by the like The people vnderstandeth not one worde or syllable of the latin tounge Ergo by no preaching nor instruction they can vnderstande the doctrine of S. Augustin S. Hierom and other Fathers writen onely in the latin or greke tounge Or thus Ergo the people can not vnderstande a great parte of M. Iewelles Replie which hath so much latin in it Although the english be annexed straight and the whole expounded vnto them No doubt but the people bothe may and dothe vnderstande greâ—t parte of the Seruice where the Curat doth his duetie But if the Curats do not their dutye or rather bicause in dede off longe they haue not herein done their duties therefore God whippeth vs iustly with these your heresies and schismes M. Iewell Howbeit we trust of his mercy he will at lenght cast the rodde in the fire and restore vs to vnite Harding And when we shal appeare before Christe in that dreadfull daie of iudgement 84 we shall not be required to geue an accompt of our vnderstanding but faith presupposed of our Charite Iewell The 84. Vntâ—uthe For it is writen He that knoweth not shall not be knowen 1. Cor. .14 It appeareth hereby M. Iewell that either you haue smal diuinite or litle charite either you are a petite doctour or els a very malicious wrangler and a pelting hicke scorner For as touching this matter wherof you note here D. Harding as speking vntruly you maye take your penne Master Iewell and score it vpp also for vntruthe vpon holye Scripture whiche saieth that in the daye off iudgement God shall rewarde euery man according to his workes not according to his knoweledge And againe opera illorum sequuntur illos their workes do folowe them And in the ghospel where our Sauiour describeth vnto vs the forme of his iudgement he â—aieth to our charge the lacke of good workes as not visiting the sicke not clothing the naked not feeding the hungry and such like S. Paule also after he had declared that in the Churche were Apostles prophets teachers the giftes of miracles of healing the sicke of speaking with tounges of interpretation of tonges yet he saieth adhuc excellentiorem viam vobis demonstro I tell you yet of a more excellent waye And that is Charite M. Iewell which S. Paule in the next chapter folowing commendeth aboue all knowleadg all giftes all speaking withe tounges yea aboue faithe it selfe concluding at the ende of the chapter these wordes Now therefore remaine these three Faith â—ope Charite But the greater of these is Charite And is it nowe an Vntruthe M. Iewell to saye that we shall geue an accompt of our Charite faith presupposed and not of vnderstanding You knowe S. Paule againe saieth knowleadge puffeth vp but 〈◊〉 edifiâ—th And the inferiours are commaunden to obay their ouerseers which watche and warde for their soules But you alleage vs a text of S. Paule where he saieth He that knoweth not shall not be knowen What knowleadg is that M. Iewell Let S. Paule him selfe teache you He saieth I haue iudged my selfe to knowe nothinge amonge you but Iesus Christ and him crucified To knowe Christ is the sufficient knowleadg for saluation for euery Christian man not called to the charge of others And so according to the saying of S. Paule he that knoweth not Christ he that hath no faith shal not be knowen of God But faith presupposed not knowleadg but Charite shall be required of the people Harding For as muche as the Seruice consisteth in maner altogether of the Scriptures Iewell The 85. Vntruthe In the Romish Seruice there are infinit vanities besides the Scriptures This is but a slaunderous lie M. Iewell I haue pervsed your whole text in this place looking to haue founde some one of these infinit vanities noted by you But I finde not one worde thereof Therfore M. Iewel as it was soone saied so vntell you prouâ—iâ— it will be thought to be a lie as it is in dede and a very slaunderous lie against the Church of God Malice made you speake it But Truthe choked you not able to proue it Harding Though we vnderstande not the 86 wordes of the Scripture whiche we vtter with oure mouthe yet the heauenly powers and Angels saieth Origen vnderstand them and thereby be inuited and that with delite to helpe vs. Iewell The .86 Vntruthe For Origen speaketh of the ignorance of the Allegorie not of the wordes Stapleton That Origen speaketh of the wordes and not of the Allegorie it appeareth euidently by the similitude whiche he maketh in that place His similitude is thus As amonge the infidels saieth Origen the CoÌ„trary powers he meaneth diuels by such and such names in verses or enchantments do serue and attends and applie that vnto which they are called by such and such names perfoâ—rming at though it were their bounden dutie therein euen so and much more the heauenly powers and Angels of God which acâ—â—mpanie vs as our lorde in the gospell of the litle ones of the Church saieth that their Angels do allwaies assiste in the sight of God beholding his face do take it gratefully and gladly if we alwaies vtter out off our mouthe the wordes of holy Scripture and the sounde of thesâ— names like as certain verses and enchantments For though we vnderstand not that which we vtter with our mouthe yet those heauenly powers which assiste vs do vnderstande them and are delighted as inuited with a certain verse to helpe vs and succour vs. Thus farre Origen By this similitude it is euident he meant of wordes and not of the allegorie first bicause the similitude consisteth in enchantmeÌ„ts These enchantmeÌ„ts are done by bate wordes not by any allegorie and that when those wordes are not vnderstanded Then by Origens minde the Angels are also delighted to heare vs pronouÌ„ce the wordes of Scripture though we vnderstand them not Secondarely Origen speaketh of the ignorance of that whiche we vtter withe our mouthe But that are the wordes only not any allegorie Therefore he speaketh of the ignorance of the wordes not of the allegorie Iewell Nowe whereas Master Iewell saieth Origen his purpose was here to speke of reading the Scripturâ—â—