name of reformed Christians on the other side that either is such in deede as of the vulgare and ignorant people they are called But why are Protestantes all hereâ—ikes desirous to be called Catholikes but that they which in deede haue the name are also in deede euermore true Catholikes and so the name alone sufficient to moue any man Who euer heard such an asse bâ—aye as though there were no difference whether they haue the name rightfully or wrongfully truely or falsely In all the Easte Church who are called Catholikes but the Grecians Which for many hundreth yeares haue bene separated from the Communion of the Latines and of them are compted for heretikes and Schimatikes But Augustine de vera rel Cap. 7. writeth more plainly for the name of Catholike Tenenda est nobis Christiana c. Wee muste holde the Christian religion and the companie of that Church which is Catholike and called Catholike not onely of her owne but also of her enemies For will they nill they the heretikes also and Schismatikes them selues when they talke not with their own but with strangers they call the Catholike Church nothing but the Catholike Church For they can not else bee vnderstanded excepte they discerne her by that name by which shee is called of the whole world This therefore quoth Bristow is proued they to be Catholikes that Catholikes are called When as Augustine saith we must hold y t church which both is catholike is so called Bristowe the Papist is called by the name of a Cittie in England theresore Bristowe the Papist is in deede a citie in England This therefore is proued that to bee Bristow that Bristow is called But how proueth he that they be called Catholikes The worlde forsooth beareth them witnesse For beside some ignorant fellowe in Germanie that calleth them so or rather not meaning to brable in the streat yealdeth to that tearme not because hee thinketh them to bee so but because he knoweth the Papist which asketh for the Catholike Church seeketh not the Catholike Church in deed but the Popish Church falsely called Catholike beside I say some tankarde bearer boye or gyrle that hath mâ—de such a unswere to Bristowe as he trauelled in Germanie he asketh when in printed bookes they bee called Catholikes whether the reader knoweth not who is meaned Yes verily if the bookes bee written by papistes oâ— such as take neither part But he would â—now further why we mâ—ke name theÌ„ call them Cacolikes or Cartholikes I suppose whosoeuer mocketh them it is because they falsely â—surpe that name which they are not woâ—thie to beare and not because they bee such and the name euill yet againe he asketh why Luther iâ— Germanie did cause the Creede to be turned I beleeue the Christian Church and not I beleeue the Catholike Church Mine answere is I beleeue that Bristowe belyeth Luther for any such change of the creede although he might well expouÌ„d the true Catholike Church by the name of the true Christian Church But Iewel confirmeth the name of Catholike to be theirs or els what meaneth he to entitle his replie Against the Romane religion which of late hath ben accompted Catholike Alas poore Bristow hast thou no better reason to proue the Popish Church to be Catholike but that Iewel saith it hath bene accompted Catholike and proueth that it hath ben falsely accompted so Yes sir not he only but also Pope Humfrey in his Legend of sains Iewel confesseth vs to be Catholikes where he saith that Pontacus erred when he wrot that onely lay men neither learned nor Catholikes were moderators in the disputation at Westminster Why Bristow are you not ashamed to take the name of the lorde your god the Pope in vaine And because Pontacus complaineth that catholikes were not moderators doth Humfrey therefore acknowledge papistes to be Catholikes yea forsooth he doth so and also coÌ„firmeth the storie of Pontacus when he saith Catholikes were present but in the next worde he expoundeth what catholikes namely papistes And som of theÌ„ were also moderators at the least wise one namely D. Heath then occupying the place of the Bishop of Yorke therefore not onely lay Lords vnlearned heretiks as this lewd losel and vnlearned dogbolt trayterous papist I am bold with him because he is so malepert with the learned godly nobilitie of England most slaunderously and maliciously affirmeth were only moderators of that disputation but some of y e Popish faction were not only present but presidents of that action beside all the rest of the popish prelates which then were of the Parliament for information whereof that conference was appointed But Humfrey saith moreouer that the chiefe cause of all euils and as it were the Troian horse within the walles of the Church hath beene hitherto a Catholike defection from the holy scripture and especially your papistrie Therefore saith Bristow hee acknowledgeth vs to be Catholikes In deed you be catholike that is to say vniuersal reuolters froÌ„ y e holy scriptures if that title please you reioyce of it spare not You be Catholike heretiks that is heretikes not in one or two articles of religion but in all in as much as you denie the office of Christe vpon which is grounded all Christiaâ—itie The name of Catholike of it selfe is indifferent to good and euil euen as the name of vniuersall is therefore in our Creede we say not simplie I beleeue the Catholike Church but the holy Catholike Church And therefore D Humfrey in calling you pseudocatholici false Catholikes sheweth what Catholikes he meaneth you to be not members of the holy Catholike Church of godly Christiss but pillers of the false and counterfeit Church of malignant herenkes And whereas you say you haue hearde Humfrey in his fond and vnlearned lectures at Oxford call them pseudocatholiâ—i â—home Faustus the Maniche did entwite for honouring the memorie of Martyrs first you take vpon you like the sowe to entwite Minerua as it is in y e latine prouerb which might better be borne withall in a man of such learning and arte as you shew if you did not also slander belie him as the diuell doth all the saintes of God For although I neuer heard any of his lecturs yet I dare affirme he neuer accompted Augustine and â—â—â—â— godly Catholiks of his time for false Catholikes although hee coulde not allowe of all that Augustine hath written and mainteyned Wherefore it is cleare hee calleth not Augustine and the Catholikes of his time but you Papistes of our time false Catholikes and shewed that to you did truly agree that which Faustus did falsely charge y e true Catholikes with all y t is the turning of Idols into Martirs For Faustus did slander not as you traÌ„slateit onely entwite the true Catholikes for worshipping the Martirs as â—â—â—â— pagans worshipped their Idols Calumniatâ—â—nobis Faustus c. Faustus doth slander vs saith Augustine Againe Non taÌ„ me mouetut hic Calumniae
dixit ille collegameus aut illi collegaemei aut illi Episcopi vel Clerici vel Laici nostri aut ideâ— verum est quia illa illa mirabilia fecit Donatus vel Pontius aut quilibet alius aut quia homines ad memorias mortuorum nostrorum orant exaudiuntur aut quia illa illa ibi contingunt aut quia ille frater nofler aut illa soror nostra tale visum vigilanâ— vidit veltale visum dormiens somniauit Remoueantur ista vel figmenta mendacium hominum velportenta fallacium spirituum aut enim non sunt vera quae diâ—unâ—tr aut sihaereticorum aliqua mira facta sunt magis cauere debemus And let him so shew it that he say not it is true because I say this or because this sayd that companion of mine or those companions of mine or those our Bishops or Clerkes or laymen or therefore it is true because Donatus or Pontius or any other hath done these or those miracles or because men pray at the memories of our martyrs are hearde or because these are those things doe happen there or because that our brother or that ou rsister sawe such a vision waking or dreamed such a vision sleping Let these things be remoued which ether are the faynings of lying men or els the wonders of deceyuing spirites for either they are not true that are sayd to be or if any miracles are done by heretikes we ought the more to take heede of them And yet againe he writeth in the same booke and chapter Sed vtrumipsecclesiam teneant non nisi diumarum sâ—ripturarum Canontcis libris ostcudant quia nee nos propterea dicimus nobis credere oportere quod in ecclesia Christi sumus quia ipsam quam tenemus coâ—â—niendauit Mileuitanus Optatus vel Mediolanensis Ambrosius vel alij innumerabiles nostrae coÌ„munionis Episcopi aut quia nostrorum collegarum concilijs ipsa predicata est aut quia per totum orbem in locis sanctis quae frequentat nostra communio tanta mirabilia vel exauditionum vel sanitatum fiunt ita vt latentia per tot annos corpora martyrum quod possunt à multis interrogantes audire Ambrosio fuerint reuelata ad ipsa corpora Caecus multâ—rum annorum ciuitati Mediolanensi notissiâ—nus oculos lumeÌ„que receperit aut quia ille SoÌ„nium vidit ille spiritu assumptus audiuit siue ne iniret in partem Donati sâ—ue vt recederet à parte Donati Quaecunque talia in Catholica fiunt ideo sunt approbaÌ„da quia in Catholica fiunt non ideo ipsa manifestatur Catholica quia hae in eafiunt Ipse Dominus Iesus cum resurrexisset à mortuis discipulorum oculis videndum manibusque tangendum corpus suum offerret nequid tamen fallaciae se pati arbitrarentur magis eos testimonijs Legis Prophetarum Psalmorum confirmandos esse iâ—dicauit ostendens ca de se impleta quae fuerant tanto ante praedicta Sic ecclesiam suam coÌ„mendauit dicens praedicari in nomine suo poenitentiam remissionem peccatorum per omnes gentes inciptentibus ab Hierusalem Hoc in Lege Prophetis Psalmis esse sâ—riptum ipse testatus est hoc eius ore commendatum tenemus Haec sunt causae nostrae documenta haec fundamenta haec firmameÌ„ta But whether they holde the church or no let them shew none otherwise but by the Canonical books of the holy Scriptures Because that neither we do say that therefore men must beleue vs that we are in the Church of Christ because Optatus of Mileuitum or Ambrose of Millain or innumerable other Bishops of our communion haue commended this Church which we hold or because it is commaunded in the councels of our fellow Bishops or because that in the holy places which our comunion doth frequent throughout the worlde so gteat miracles are done either of hearing mens prayers or of healings so that the bodies of martyrs which haue bene hidden for so many yeres which which thing if they will aske they may heare of many were reuealed vnto Ambrose and that at the same bodies a man which had bene blind many yeres very well knowen to the city of Millain receiued his eyes sight or because this man sawe a dreame or that man being taken vp in spirite did heare either that he shoulde not enter into the faction of Donatus or that he should depart from Donatus side Whatsoeuer of such things are done in the Catholike church they are therefore to be approued because they are done in the Catholike church but the church is not therby proued Catholike because such things are done in it Our lord Iesus himselfe when he had risen from the dead offred his body to be seene with the eyes touched with the hands of his disciples yet least they should think they suffered any illusion he iudged that they were rather to be confirmed with the testimonies of the lawe the prophets the Psalmes shewing that those thinges were fulfilled of him which were so long before prophecied So also he coÌ„mended his church saying that repentance forgenenes of sinnes must be preached in his name throgh out all nations beginning at Hierusalem This he him selfe testifieth to be writteÌ„ in the lawe the prophetes the psalmes this we holde being commâ—nded to it by his owne mouth These be profes of our cause these be our foundations these be our strong argumentes These thinges I haue set downe more at large out of Augustine because they are not onely a stop vnto these motiues of miracles visions but in a manner to all the rest that followe The 8. motiue is the 4. demaunde Scriptures denied by the Protestantes what scriptures they deny praying for the dead confirmed by scripture pray or of saintes for vs fayth onely aganst the scripture Reall presence of Christ in the sacrament confirmed by scripture No scripture is against the Catholikes but all is for them VVhosoeuer haue taught doctrine saith Bristow so plainly repugnant to the holy Scriptures that for maintenaunce thereof they were faine to deny bookes of the holy Scriptures or to say the Scriptures to haue bene falsified and corrupted they were heretikes and such are the Protestantes therefore they are heretikes Howe proue you the Protestants to be suche Marie sayth Bristow first they deny the Canonicall most certayne Scripture of the Machabees for none other cause but that it is playne against their heresies maynteyning prayer for the dead and prayer of Sainctes for vs. This is a lowde lye for we shewe many causes why we reiect that prophane writing of Iasons abridger beside the auctoritie of the Iewish church before Christ and the primitiue church after Christ as I haue declared against the secoÌ„d booke of Allens defence cap. 3. But in defense of the booke of Machabees to be Canonical Bristow wilsay as S. Augustine sayd to certeyne that
Rome to approue her doctrine by auctority of Gods word Which because the Papists dare not atteÌ„pt Bristow requireth I can not tel what approbation priuiledge of the sayd libell to shew a bad shift better then none at all why they wil not answere it For Popish libells that are but cast abroad in writing we require no approbation nor priuiledge dare not the Papists confute a printed libell before it haue approbation priuiledge The 29. motiue Protestantes them selues take thinges vpon our churches credit The churches auctority S. Augustines motiue VVhat Sor. pture the Protestants deny Although we did receaue such things as he reherseth vpon their churches credit it followeth not that theirs is the true church for we receaue nothing from them without dew exammation The Scriptures we receaue not vpon the only credit of the Popish church but vpon the credit of y e vniuersall church of Christ. The creedes articles of doctrine tearmes of person trinitie consubstantiality Sacraments c. we receaue because they be consonant to the Scriptures not because the church of Rome tellâ—th â—s they be true As for the auctoritie of the church which he sayth was S. Augustines motiue to beleue the Gospell was not a single or sole motiue but a commotiue or an argument that with other argumeÌ„ts did moue him for the sayth not moueret but commoueret and so it is with vs. Prouided alwayes that the Popish church be no taken for that Catholike or vniuersall church VVhat then sayth Bristow was it the Protestants church whereof Augustine ment or can you hold laughter when the question is asked No verily for when the Protestants church that it is now so called in this age like as it was called the Homousians church in Augustines time is a member of the Catholike vniuersall church of Christ and so proued by the holy Scriptures it is a ridiculous thing to doubt whether it were the popish church which is but an hereticall assembly departed from the vniuersall church long since Augustines departure out of this life But Bristow will proue that the church at whose commanndement Augustine beleued the Gospell was not the ProtestaÌ„ts church because that church commaunded him to beleue the bookes of Toby Iudith VVisdome Ecclesiasticus the Machabees to be canonicallscripture which the church of Protestantes doth denye But what it Augustine were deceiued to thinke he hearde the voice of the Catholike church when he did not shall the Protestantes churche be condemned S. Hierome who if the church of Rome were the Catholike church was more like to heare her voice because he was a Priest of the church of Rome telleth vs a cleane contrary tale For thus he writeth In praefat in Prouerbia Sicut ergo Iudith Tobiae Machabaeorum libros legit quidem ecclesia sed eos inter Canonicas scripturas non recipit sic haec duo volumina leg at ad aedificationem plebis non ad auctoritatem ecclesiasticorum dogmatum confirmandam Therfore as the Church in deade readeth the bookes of Iudith and Tobias and of the Macchabees but yet she receiueth them not among the Canonicall scriptures so she may reade these two Bookes speaking of the booke of Wisedome and Ecclesiasticus for the edifying of the common people but not for confirming the authoritie of Ecclesiasticall doctrine Doth the Church of Protestants iudge otherwise of these Bookes then that Church which thus instructed Hierome What then I must say as Bristowe doth S. Hierome and the Catholike Church in his time of our Religion The Church of Rome now is of an other iudgement then the Church of Rome was then ergo it is not now that it was then But whereas Bristowe chargeth vs to to deny or at least to leaue indifferent the Canticles of Salomon The Epistle to the Hebrues The Epistles of Saint Iames S Peter S. Iohn Sainct Iude with the Apocalips it is a diuelish slaunder as God knoweth and the woâ—ld can beare vs witnesse The 30. Motiue is the 36. and 37. demaÅd Storehouse of the Scriptures Tht Iewes Religion chaunged into ours by Christ. The Churches learning and wisdome The Church store S. Irenaeus motiue Bristowe demaundeth whether the Popish Church receiuing the Scriptures of the olde and newe Testament from Christ hath not kept them faithfully without adding minishing or corrupting I aunswere no for the Popish church receiueth none of Christ but the catholike church of Christ. Againe the popish Church hath added whole bokes to the canon which the chuch of the Iewes neuer receiued nor the vniuersall Church of Christ. But those Bokes saith Bristow hath the Protestants church robbed vs of w c are allowed by approued Councels You heard in the last motiue Hieromes iudgement of those bookes whervnto agreeth the couÌ„cel of Laodiâ—ea cap. 59. Augustine receiueth the boks of Macchabees but with condition of sobrietie in the reader or hearer Augâ— consec â—pist Gaudent cap. 13. Last of al the popish church either of fraud or negligence hath corrupted an exceeding great number of textes of the scripture in her vulgar latine translation w c she receueth as only authentical The very first promise of the gospel is corrupted and falsyfied For wheras the trueth is Ipsum contret caput â—â—â—â— the same seede shall broose thine head the popish translation hath Ipsa the same woman Gen 3. Wheras he saith the Protestants church for this 100. yeeres as we coÌ„fesse our selues occupyed no bible nor had any thing to do with the scriptures he lieth out of al measure for the church of Christ hath alwaies had the scriptures in euery nation where it was it had theÌ„ in their mother toung How many Bibles are yet extant written in parchmeÌ„t 3 or 4. hundreth yeeres past in the English toung beside other in the Saxon language The like are to be proued to haue ben in al places where the Churches were gathered as in France Italy Bohemia c. Finally whatsoeuer he bableth of their Church to be the store house of the Scriptures trueth the like may be said of the greke Church which they coÌ„demne as schismaticall hereticall therefore this storehouse is no Motiue to proue the Romish Sinagogue to be the church of God In the 37. demaund he asketh whether as wel Protestants as other doe not condemne the old writers errors other heresies of Heretiks which made great shew of scriptures by the rule of y e popish churchs faith I answere the Protestants out of the scriptures do can disproue such shew of scriptures made by maisters of error are no more moued by the popish churches authoritie then the Apostles were moued by authoritie of the Iewish Synagogue to reproue all the grosse Idolatrie and snperstition of the Gentiles Therfore the popish Church is not Depositorium Diues that rich storehouse of trueth which was S. Ireneus motiue The 31. motiue is the 41. demaund Sending and teaching of all diuine
these wordes vpon this rocke I will builde my church it proueth not your exposition to be true for neither do all the old Doctors nor yet the new Papistes agree in one the same interpretation of this text And oftentimes it may inuincibly be proued that an heresie hath no grounde out of suche a text of Scripture although the true and naturall sense thereof can not be found at all The fift Chapter IT is proued out of the auncient fathers that S. Peter is this rocke whereupon the church was promised to be builded otherwise then M. Iewell affirmeth THat Peter was a rocke or stone vpon which the church was builded is graunted of vs but that he alone was a rock for the whole church to be builded vpoÌ„ we deny and M. Iewell rightly affirmeth that the olde Catholike fathers haue written and pronounced not any mortall man as Peter was but Christ him selfe the sonne of God to be this rocke whereon y t whole church is builded But M. Sander will proue if he can out of the old writers that not onely Christ is the chiefe rocke but Peter also is an other rocke so that the church by his doctrine is builded vpon two rockes and this he will shew 1. by their words 2. their reasons 3. by the same places which M. Iewell alleageth for the coÌ„trary opinioÌ„ The decretal epistles of Anacletus Pius Fabianus c. which in his owne conscience he knoweth to be forged he omitteth and beginneth with Tertullian De praescrip aduers. haeres Latuit aliquid Petrum aedisicaÌ„dae ecclesiae Petram dictum Was any thing hid from Peter which was called a rocke of the church which was to be builded This is graunted that he was a rocke or stone whereon the churche is builded and the same Tertullian in his booke de pudicitia sayth of this whole text that this was conferred to Peter Personally and perteineth to none other but such as he was namely an Apostle or Prophet Secundum enim Petri personam spiritualibus potestas ista conueniet aut Apostolo aut Prophetae For according to the person of Peter this power shall belong to spiritual men either to an Apostle or to a Prophet Where is then the succession of the B. of Bome But Hippolytus saith Princeps Petrus fideipetra Peter is chiefe a rocke of faith He meaneth a strong preacher of faith not a rocke whereon faith is builded Origenes in Exod. Ho. 5. calleth S. Peter Magnum illud c. That great foundation and most sound rocke whereupon Christ hath builded his church But let Origenes expound him selfe in Math. cap. 16. Si autem super vnum illum Petrum arbitraris vniuersam ecclesiam aedisicari à deo quid dicis de Iacobo Ioanne filus tonitrui velde singulis Apostolis Verè ergo ad Petrum quidem dictum est Tues Petrus super hanepetram edifiâ—abo ecclesiam meam pertae inferorum non praeualebâ—nt ei tamen omnibus Apostolis omnibus quibus q perfectis fidelibus dictum videtur quoniam omnes sunt Petrus petrae in omnibus aedificata est ecclesia Christi aduersus nullum ecrum qui tales sunt portae preualent inferorum But if thou thinke the whole church is builded by God vpon that one man Peter what sayst thou of Iames and Iohn the sonnes of thunder or of euerie one of the Apostles Therefore it was in deede truly sayd vnto Peter Thou art Peter vpon this rocke I will builde my church and the gates of hell shall not preuaile agaynst it yet it seemeth that it was spoken also to all the Apostles and to all the perfect faithfull because they are all Peter and stones and on them all the church of Christ is builded and agaynst none of them which are suche the gates of hell shall preuayle By this you see howe Origen is none of his howe so euer he abuse his name Next he citeth Cyprian lib. 1. Ep. 3. lib. 4. Ep. 9 which sayeth that the church was builded vpon Peter Which we confesse as vpon one of the foundation stones but the same Cyprian De simplicitate praelatorum sayth Hoc erant vtique caeters Apostoli quod fuit Petrus pari consortio praediti honoris potestatis sed exordium ab vnitate proficiscinur vt ecclesia vna monstretur The rest of the Apostles were euen the same thing that Peter was endued with equall fellowship both of honor and auctoritie but the beginning procedeth from one that the church might be shewed to be one This speaketh Cyprian vpon the very text now in discussing Consequently he citeth Hilarie lib 6. de trinit Petrus c. Peter lieth vnder the building of the church and in ca. Math. 16. O in nuncupatione c. O happy foundation of the church in hauing the new name pronounced and ô rocke worthie of the building of that church which should dissolue the lawes of hell But the same Hilarie sayeth of Christ de trinit lib. 2. Vna haec est foelix fidei petra Petri ore confessa tu es filius Dei viui This is that onely happie rocke of fayth confessed by the mouth of Peter thou art the sonne of the liuing God And agayne lib. 6. Super hanc igitur confessionis petram ecclesiae aedificatio est Vpon this rocke of confession is the building of the church And againe Haec fides ecelesiae fundamentum est per hanc fidem infirmae aduersus eam sunt portae inferorum Haec fides regni caelestis habet claues c. This fayth is the foundation of the churche by this fayth the gates of hell are of no force agaynst it This fayth hath the keyes of the kingdome of heauen c. Therefore not the person of Peter is the rocke for all the church to be built vpon S. Ambrose hath the next place whome he citeth Scr. 66. Si ergo c. If Peter then be a rocke vpon which the church is builded he doth well to heale first the feete that euen as he doth conteyne the foundation of faith in the church so in the man he may confirme the foundation of his members Of the auctoritie of this Sermon I will not dispute it shall sufâ—ice that Ambrose in Ps. 38. sayth Quod Petro dicitur Apostâ—lis diâ—itur non pâ—testatem vsurpamus sed seruiâ—â—s â—mperio That which is sayd to Peter is said to the Apostles we vsurpe not power but we serue vnder commaundâ—ment By this saying of Ambrose Peter is so a rocke and foundation as the other Apostles are not a rocke to beare all the building him selfe S. Basil is alleaged in Concâ—de paenit Petrus petra est c. Peter is a rocke through Christ the rocke For Iesus geueth his owne dignities he is a rocke and maketh a rocke This proueth not Peter to be the onely rocke of the militant church as M. Sander would make him After him he citeth Hierom in 16. Math.
made God him selfe ofit for there is no doubt but vnto baptisme which is also the sacrament of our pryce she tyed her soule with the bande of faith and so hath euery faithfull Protestant For the sacraments by faith are certaine pledges of our conâ—unction with God through Christ. Into whose death we are ingraffed by baptisme as we are fedde with his body and blood in the supper The place of Augustine is corruptly cited by Bristow who hath cut of both the head and the foote of it which is this Ad vnum Deumtendentes ei vni religantes anâ—mas nostras vnde religio dicta creditâ—r omni superstitione careamus Hauing respect to one God and tying our soules to him onely whereof religion is thought to be called let vs be voyde of all superstition For Monica had respect onely to God when she tyed her soule by faith vnto the seale of Gods promises And she was voyde of superstition when she cleaued to none other ceremonye of coniunction with God but onely to that which was ordeyned of God him selfe for that purpose But howe proueth Bristow that prayer for the deade was vsed alway or that Masse was sayd for the deade Because that in the corrupt tyme of Augustine prayer was vsed for the deade and in the prayers vsed at the celebration of the communion remembraunce was made of the dead This is a strauÌ„ge kind of reasoning that was vsed sometime therefore it was vsed alwayes But how long it was vsed and how it was taken vp I haue shewed in myne aunswer to Allins booke of Purgatory Now commeth S. Gregory to be of Bristowes religion I will not deny but in many errors and superstitions Gregory agreeth with the Papistes but yet not in all nor in some of the chiefest The visions he rehearseth for prayer for y e dead if they were not fayned dreames they were illusioÌ„s of y e deuil because they serue to mainteine that doctrine which is contrary to the Scriptures which teach that after death followeth iudgement immediatly so that no prayers can preuaile Heb. 9. 26. But prophecyes are for Bristowes religion How so I praye you The conuersion of Augustine and the death of Cassius were foretold in vision If both those were grauÌ„ted to be true visions your religion were neuer the better except the conuersion of the one and the death of the other be your religion But admitting the dreame of Monica to be a true vision howe proue you that the Chapeline of Cassius did not fayne his vision after his maister was dead But the dreame of Iudas Machabaeus who sawe the Prophet Ieremy pray for the people is recorded in the Canonical Scripture it selfe sayth Bristow 2. Mach. 15. chap. which Scripture the Protestants reiect because it maketh against them as they would doe all the rest but that they thinke they haue inueÌ„ted shiftes good enough to blinde the worlde What reuerence we beare to the holy Scriptures of God he him selfe our owne conscience and the whole world can testifie And the reiection of such bookes as were not written by the spirite of God doth approue the same Beside the authoritie of the auncient Churche both of the Iewes and Gentills which neuer receiued the same bookes into the canon we haue often made manifest demonstration that they proceeded not from the spirite of God Wherefore the Papistes making them of equall credit with the worde of God incurre the curse of God which is vnto all them that either adde or take away any thing from his holy word But the Papistes are not destitute of visions in these daies for Bristow knoweth a Protestant who hath confessed that he saw in a dreame the communion booke out of many handes cast into a fire and yet the man coÌ„tinueth a Protestant Verely he doth as a good Christian should doe that not onely with no vaine dreames but nether with visions of Angells from heauen he will be moued to condemne that doctrine which he knoweth assuredly to be agreable to the holy Scriptures But there was a Papist in London which came to y e Church against his conscience and sawe a fowle blacke dogge take the communion euer more at the naughty ministers hands as he offred it to the communicants which stroke the Papist so at the hart that he went home and dyed vpon it This deuilish illusion or melaÌ„cholike perswasion of a deuilish dogged Papist thinketh Bristow able to condemne the holy ministration of the Lordes supper warranted by â—â—â—â— Scriptures according to Christes institution As for the extaticall fantasticall dreame of maister Allington tending as I remember to mainteine Idolatrie wise men regard as much as such fantasies deserue after which if we should shape our religion we shoulde alter as often as any mans fonde humor or foolish conceit ministreth newe visions and straunge apparitions But I maâ—uell amonge so many visions that Bristow omitteth the famous vision of Elizeus Hall that came from Manchester to London with a booke of his cold prophecyes to coÌ„uert the Queene the Realme to Papistrie Well sayth Bristow you scorne at our visions and dreames yet was S. Cyprian of our religion Because he defendeth some visions and dreames which were seene in his time which were not to mainteyne any thing coÌ„trary to the Scripture but that which was agreable to the same A poore reason why he should be of your religion And yet it is all the reason that you bringe But for our iudgement of miracles of visions dreames to be motiues in controuersies of the Church you shall heare Augustines sentence De 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ecclesiae cap. 16. against the Donatistes Remoâ—is ergo omnibus talibâ—s Ecclâ—siam suam demonstrent sipossunt non in sermonibus rumoribus Asrorum non in concilys Episcoporum suorum non in literis quorumlibet d. spâ—tatorum non in signis prodigijs fallaâ—ibus quia etiam contra ista verbo Domini praeparati cauti reddâ—â—i sumus sed in praesâ—ripio legis in Prophetarum praedictis in Psalmorum cantibus in ipsius pastoris vocibus in Euangelistaru'â— prâ—edicationibus laboribus hoc est in omnibus canonicâ—s sanctorum librorum auctoritatibus Wherefore setting aside all such matters let them shew forth the Church to be theirs if they can not in the speaches and rumors of Africanes not in the councells of their Bishops not in the writings of all maner of discoursers not in deceyueable signes wonders because that euen against those thinges we are prepared and made warye by the worde of our Lorde but in the prescript of the lawe in the predictions of the Prophets in the songes of the Psalmes in the voyces of the sheepeherd him selfe in the preachings and labors of the Euangelistes that is to say in all the canonicall authorities of the holy bookes 3. And againe in the same chapter sic â—stendat non dicat verum est quia ego hoc dico aut quia hoc
Popish church neuer made any chauÌ„ge of religion Which is a shamelesse assertion although he say that none of his aduersaries is able to charge them with any alteration since Augustines time For to omitte the whole scope of doctrine cleane peruerted I will obserue only the practise of the church in Augustines time about the Lords supper In that time the lay people did receaue the communion in both kindes and one thousand yeres almost after which of late the Papistes haue altered In Augustines time the communion was geuen to infantes which the Papistes doe not obserue therefore they can not bragge of perpetuall practise and deny all chaunge in religion made by them But Bristow not content with this vayne bragge will go farther and shewe that whatsoeuer they haue vsed sithe S. Augustines time was obserued euen so in all that time that passed betwene S. Paule and S. Augustine Is not this a master of impudence to promise that which all the worlde of learned men doth know to be impossible to be performed and whereof the promiser himselfe can bring no profe at all but his bare worde For he beginneth with exorcisme and exsufflation which as it was vsed in Augustines time vnnecessarily so it appeareth by Cyprian that was long before him that it was vsed for the casting out of the deuill in them whose bodies he did sensibly possesse lib. 3. cap. 7. ad Magnum Of the sacrifice of the Masse worshipping of the Sacrament and oblation for the deade as Bristow referreth the reader to his fift and seuenth motiues so doe I to mine aunsweres vnto the same Concerning the vse of the altare howe truly he sayth I referre the reader to mine answere of D. Heskins lib. 3. cap. 31. The other fonde reason of the practise of the church that children were taught to beleue the reall presence of Christ in the Sacrament for which he citeth Aug. de Tim. lib. 3. cap. 10. which the poore man borowed out of Allens booke of Purgatory is discussed answered in my confutation of the same treatise lib. 2 cap. 9. Then followeth going on pilgrimage to holy places worshipping of reliques prayer vnto Sainctes vsed as he sayth in Augustines time For worshipping of reliques and praying to Sainctes he citeth Aug de câ—re pro mor. Who concludeth that to be buried at some memorie of the martyrs doth in this poynct only auayle the dead that the affection of supplication commending him also to the patronage of the martyr may be encreased That this was no perpetuall practise of the church to desire the intercession of Sainctes it is manifest by this that Augustine him selfe dare affirme nothing certeinly whether or how the Saincts may heare our prayers Affirming that this question passeth the power of his vnderstanding cap. 16. But by the name of memory Bristow will vnderstande relique because it is somtime so vsed which is no strong argument But admitte it were so how can he proue either that practise to haue bene continued from S. Paule to S. Augustine or the same opinion of reliques to haue ben in Augustines time which is mainteined in the Popish church that there was superstitious peregrinatioÌ„ vnto Ierusalem c. vsed in S. Hieroms time it is as true as that the same was reproued of him Ep. ad Paul If God shewed any miracles at the deade bodyes of the Martyrs to confirme that religion for which they suffred against the Gentiles it foloweth not that the reliques of dead Saints are to be worshiped kissed saught vnto by pilgrimage c but most absurd is it that Bristow would haue Hierome by ofteÌ„ entering into the Cryptos or vaultes of churches at Rome to signifie that he went a Pilgrimage Hierome was not so grose to accounte walking about the Citie to be a Preregrination But what is so leaden or blockishe which these doltish Papists will not auouch for the mainteinaunce of their trompery Last of all he chargeth the Protestantes with an impudent attempt in making such an vniuersall chaunge of the whole face of Religion which none of the olde Heretikes did before theÌ„ That we are like to none of the olde Heretikes we like our selues neuer the worse but as concerning the vniuersall chaunge it was necessary in reformation where there was an vniuersal Apostacie For any alteratioÌ„ that we haue made the Papistes dare not affirme for shame that wee haue brought any thing into the Church which ought not to be vsed by the worde of God neither are they able to proue that we haue omitted anything which by the holy scripture is necessaryly required To coÌ„clude you see that the practise of the church except it be perpetuall euen from the first beginning is no Motiue by Augustines iudgement and that Bristowe though hee hath bragged much thereof for some superstitions vsed of olde yet he hath brought nothing to proue that they haue beene from the beginning The 12. Motiue is the 28. demaunde Sea apostolike The communion of the Bishop of Rome to be kept of all Christians The Romain Church is the Catholike Church Saint Augustine of our religion Such as are condemned by the Sea Apâ—stolike are holden for Heretikes Pelagians aliue againe in Protestants Emperours and other peeres of our Religion as also their first conuersion S. Theodoret Chrisostom and Hierome of our Religion Antichristes side against the Pope Protestants doe decay and shall come to nothing VVhosoeuer sayth Bristow at any time were for their doing or teaching condemned by the definitiue sentence of the Sea Apostolike and stubbernly condemned the same they were Scismatikes or heretikes And contrariwise all Catholike men haue kept them selues in the vnitie of that sea and if for any cause they were out of it labouring to be reconciled againe or if they had beene but suspected neuer ceasing vntill they had made their purgation Moreouer he saith there can none example be alleadged to the contrary but innumerable for it It is not denyed but the Church and Sea of Rome while it continued in true catholike Religion was much reuerenced euery where so farre at least as the Romane empire did extende But when any Bishop of that sea went out of the way either in scisme or herefie they were not followed but resisted condemned For Example When Victor bishop of Rome like a proude scismatike did take vpon him to excommunicate all the Churches of the East for celebration of Easter they did not onely contemne his censure but many Bishops also did sharply rebuke him as Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons other Euse. li. 5. ca. 25. WheÌ„ Liberius bishop of Rome relented vnto the Arrians he was forsaken of the true Christians and accounted an Heretike Hier. in Catal. When Bonifacius Zosimus and Celestinus Bishops of Rome would chalenge appellations out of Africa contrary to the decrees out of the councels of Africa by counterfaiting a Canon of the Nicene councell they were resisted by all the Bishops of Africa and the trechery
truth Caluins errors about the trinitie The ignoraunce of Protestants Such was Iew elr ignoraunce also that Christe is a prieste according to his Godhead Vniuersities of Heretiks Catholikes Degrees taken in Vniuersities of Heretiks are ad nihillated The ignorance of Protestants the cause partely why there be so many Atheistes in England The Churches learning wisdome and continuance S. Augustines Motiue This Motiue conteineth nothing but an immederate arrogant bragge of their studying and teaching of trueth with the great learning of their Doctors and Vniuersities and a proude disdamefull vpbraiding of our Doctors and vniuersities of much ignorance and lacke of learning Which comparison if it had beene vttered by a man of excellent learning had beene the lesse odious but beeing made by such a blinde Baiarde and blockheadded asse as is this Bristowe it is moste intollerable Caluiue saith he through ignoraunce erred about the Trinitie saying That Gods Sonne is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is God of him selfe whereby it followeth ineuitably that there be two Gods For this slaunderous and foolish cauill he citeth Institut lib. 1. cap. 13. Num. 23. c. where is no such word nor matter but a confutation of Heretikes that denyed the very essens of the deitie of Christ he cyteth also Geneb de trinit lib. 1. pa. 43. Where if the woorde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be vsed as I know not whether it be yet vndoutedly no such thing is ment thereby as Bristow bableth For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 maye signifie him that is very God himselfe although begotten of God the father eueÌ„ as Gregory Nazianzene in his Booke of the holy Ghost or De theologia lib. 5. calleth the holy Ghost 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Lorde himselfe whereof it followeth not that there be two or three Lords or that the holy ghost proceedeth not from the father and the sonne Likewise he calleth him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Light it selfe and Life that is very light and very life and yet he denyeth not that he is light proceeding from light Wherefore this is an vnlearned cauil against Caluine who more souÌ„dly substantially learnedly hath written of the blessed trinitie then all the Dunces Aquines Alberts the whole rablement of Scholemen of whome Bristow so vainely doth brag were euer able to attaine vnto who with their sophistrie and barbarousnes haue rather darkened then sette foorth the cleere light of those most excellent and diuine misteries The like impudent cauil he bringeth against M. Iewel whome no man I think without laughter can read to be charged with ignoraÌ„ce by bluÌ„dering Bristow for affirmiug Christ to be a prieste according to his deitie whoÌ„e the Apostle expresly saith by his eternall spirit to haue offred himself Heb. 9. ve 11. As for the comparisons betweene the Vniuersities of Papistes and ours how vaine it is all that be learned of indifferent iudgement can testifie And concerning degrees and ciuil titles of dignitie taken in our vniuersities beeing nothing else but testâ—monies of their learning which receiue them we think them better beeing confirmed by the Princes authoritie from whom all cidignities euen by ciuil law are deriued then such as are either giuen or confirmed by the Popes leaden Bulles The Atheists other vnreligious mindes in England are not nourished by the ignorance of the Protestants but detested by their godly and learned iudgement But if where there be most Atheists there is greatest ignorance then euen in Italy at Rome vnder the Popes nose where be most Atheists of any regioÌ„ almost in the world is greatest ignorance Where open blasphemies are as common yea oftentimes in the Popes mouth as the praises of God are among true christians What trauâ—ller in Italy is ignorant of this whether he be protestant Papist or Newter Last of all if the Chuches wisdome learning continuance was S. Augustines motiue the folly barbarousnes late shining of the popish Church is a motiue to make vs think that it is not the church of Christ. For Bristowes brags are not sufficient to carry away all credit of learning to popish doctors Vniuersities whose orders and readings he doth the rather commend to be so excellent that men w c knew him of late with periury to haue taken degrees in Philosophie should not meruaile that he is so sudenly transformed into so great a doctor of diuinitie eueÌ„ by once hearing the cause of Diuinitie which he supposeth none of our doctors knoweth what it meaneth such a goodly matter is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whereby a manne maketh moste account of that he hath learned last But albeit the question be not of learning but of trueth yet if it would please the Papists to try the learning of our doctors Vniuersities vnder indifferent iudges I doubt not but they should be found equall vnto theirs that I say not in many things they should be found superiour The 32. motiue is the 22. demaund Aunuall celebrating of Christes mysteries The churches seruice is to be imbraced Christ is to be beleued for the scriptures of the olde testameÌ„t as they be vnderstood in the church Ember daies or Enper dayes whichy our blinde Apostles doe boldely say to haue ben the Popes leman The Martirs were of our religion Saints dayes laide downe by protestants as our Ladyes daies S. Laurence day the assumption of our Lady The Churches and seruiâ—e of heretikes to be râ—frained in paine of damnation Against communiâ—ating with them An admonition to priestes that say the now seruice Heretikes are idolaters and heresies are idols The yeare of Iubely 1575. Pilgrimage The sermons of Heretikes not to be heard their bookes not to be read Christ to be beleeued for the vertue of the signe of his Crosse which workesh miracles Visions for our religion The Annuall celebration of Christes misteries by dumb ceremonies and readings not vnderstood of the ignorant people although there were no heresie in the popish seruice nor no sufficient motiues to imbrace the popish synagogue as the church of Christ if the Scriptures and the figures of the lawe better applyed then they be in all the lumpe of the popish solemnities they would procure small credit to our Sauiour Christ but rather the scorning and derision of Turkes Iewes and Pagans As for the blind commeÌ„taries of the Iewes out of which he magineth we haue all our vnderstanding of the old testament how litle we trust in prophecyes of Christ may be seene in the written commentaries of Caluine Musculus such other The names of a great number of the solemne feastes as Bristow sayth doth argue in deede the Papists ether to haue inuented theÌ„ or to haue abused them as Candelmas Corpus Christi day c but that the same were inuented by that auncient Church w c celebrated the natiuity resurrection ascention of Christ cat is vtterly vntrue For your owne Durand testifieth that many of them were of late Popes institutioÌ„ w c
particularly to euerie one of them sheweing whether it be a true and proper note of the church and if it be that it belongeth to vs and not to them Although Bristow say that this way we know full well that they shall haue the victorie flying therefore euermore to our weake false castle of only Scripture That the scripture onely is our castle we do gladly admitte but that the same is a most strong true impugnable castle none but a blasphemous heretike will deny But you must saith Bristow still labour to get them if you can with their consent out of the castle into the plaine fieldes aforesayde to make them graunt expressely that there in your handes they can not stande Nay Bristow you must beate vs from our castell if you can for we will neuer consent to goe out of it for defense except it be to offer you the aduauntage not in the playne fieldes as you cal it but among your pettie piles and small holdes And so we haue done often So did that reuerende father the Bishoppe of Salisburie in that noble challenge wherein you were shamefullie foyled in your owne grounde and many of your fortes beaten about your eares But you doe not well to teach your schollers to seeke a gentle aduersarie to fight withall which must first of all be willing to laye downe his sworde and shielde and then you are good enough for him with your manlie motiues with which when you haue treandled him about like a tenis ball you sende him backe agayne to his castell of onely Scripture to see whether they will beare him out in his opinions For example is not this Scripture manifest inough on your side and agaynst vs This is my body This is my blood Mat. 26. Verily euen as plaine as this They did all eate the same spirituall meate They all dronke of the rocke that followed theÌ„ y e rocke was Christ. 1. Cor. 10. They are both one maner of speaking and both of one matter Therefore they haue both one meaning The second exaÌ„ple is By works a man is iustified not by faith only Iac. 2. And this is also Scripture knowing that a man is not iustified by the workes of the Lawe but by faith of Iesus Christ Gâ—lat 2. And agayne by grace you are saued through faith and that not of your selues it is the gift of God not of workes least any man shoulde boast The later being in maner of speaking contrarie to the former text doe playnly shewe that these two Apostles speake not both of one kinde of faith or iustification But that Iames speaketh of a dead faith as his wordes are playne Vers. 17. and of iustification before men Paule of a liuing faith and of iustification in the sight of God The third example is out of Iames 5. Where I must first note that Bristow in translation doth manifestly corrupt falsefie the Scripture The Latine is Infirmatur quis in vobis If any amongest you be daungerously sicke let him send for the Priests of the church and they to pray ouer him anealing him with oyle in the name of our Lord c. First Bristow addeth this word daungerously of his owne heade which is neither in the Greeke nor vulgare Latine text to draw the text of Iames violently to their popish greasing which they vse only when a man is desperatly sicke and past hope of recouerie in theiâ— iudgement Whereas Iames speaketh generally of any kinde of sickenes wherewith any of the faithfull were molested Secondly Bristowe leaueth out the wordes following which are these and the prayer of faith shall saue the sicke person and the Lord shall restore him or raise him vp the Latine is alleâ—iabit shall ease him which wordes declare that the Apostle speaketh not of a perpeâ—uall Sacrament of the church but of a ceremonie vsed by them that had a speciall gift of healing the sicke in the primitiue Churche whiche ceremonie must needes cease with the gift except it be among apes that practise outward gesture and actions without effect The other two examples out of the 2. of Machabees the one of praying for the deade the other of Ieremie praying for the people are no partes of the castell of Canonicall Scripture and therefore with other errours in the same bookes I omit them The last exaÌ„ple is out of Genesis 48. The saying of Iacob the Patriarke of Iosephs two childreÌ„ God who hath fed me from my youth euen to this day The Angell who hath deliuered me out of all aduersities blesse these children which is sayth Bristow as if one would say God and our Ladie blesse them Nay rather God by Iesus Christ blesse them for what other Angell but Christ the Angell of the great councell was the deliuerer of Iacob which when he wrestled with him in a vision and mystery Gen. 32. he doubted not to call God Euen the same Angell which led the children of Israel through the wildernes whoÌ„ S. Paul 1. Cor. 10. calleth Christ who was not an Angel by nature but by office in that as the Mediator he was sent to deliuer the people before he came in the flesh But if we should vnderstand the Angell of whom Iacob speaketh for soÌ„e priuate Angel appointed of God to protect him yet is it not as if one would say now God our Lady blesse theÌ„ For that God vseth the ministery of Angels to defend prosper his seruaunts but not the ministery of Saincts in heaueÌ„ for any such purpose that we can learne by the holy Scriptures Iacob might therfore pray y t God would send his Angell to protect those children euen as he had done for him As for that vaine brag that all Scripture from the beginning of Genesis to the end of the Apocalipse is for theÌ„ against vs is nothing els but a false alarme as though he woulde on all sides assalt our castel of only Scriptures wheras he purposeth nothing lesse But this can not be borne that he sayeth some places of Scripture be so playne against vs that we can not aunswere them but by plucking the pen of the holy Ghost out of his hand that wrote theÌ„ meaning that we deny the auctority of such books as be not Canonicall the Machabees especially But this he sayth can not be For either they are proued muâ—ncibly to be of the holy Ghostes indighting or no Scripture at all is proued to be suche as you may remember the common saying of S. Augustine Ego Euangelio non crederem c. I shoulde not beleue the Gospell it selfe vnlesse the Catholike Churches auctoritie did compell What shall I say to this impudent blasphemer that alloweth none other tryall of holy Scripture but the authoritie of the Church because Augustine supposing that hee were an Heathen Againe sayth he would not beleeue the Gospell except the authoritie of the Church with other thinges did moue him his woorde is Commoueret whiche Bristowe not so ignorauntly as
Apostles had I aunswer the kinges supremacie is perfectly distinct from any power the Apostles had For although he haue authoritie ouer Ecclesiasticall persons and in causes Ecclesiasticall according to Gods word yet is he no Ecclesiasticall officer but a ciuill Magistrate hauing chiefe authoritie in all causes not absolute to doe what he will but onely what God commaundeth him namely to prouide by lawes that God may be truely worshipped and all offences against his religion may be punished And whereas M. Sander inferreth that an Ethnike Prince or Turke may be supreame heade of our Church we vtterly denye to any such the name of an head which can not be a member but euen an Ethnicke Prince or a Turke may be chiefe Magistrate ouer the faithfull and make lawes for the mayntenance of Christian religion as an hypocrite Christian may They are also to be obeyed in all things that are not contrary to God Nabuchadnezer Darius Cyrus Artaxerxes which were heathen Princes made godly lawes for the true worship of God furtherance of his people as in the prophecie of Daniel the bookes of Ezra and Nehemiah it is manifest S Paule appealed to Nero the Emperor Eusebius testifieth lib. 7. cap. 24 that the Christians in a matter of a Bishopps election and for a Bishops house were directed by the decree of Aurelianus an heathen Emperour And this notwithstanding the Church is alwayes vnder the soueraigne authoritie of Christ and the spirituall gouernment of her seuerall pastors and teachers when Christ ascending into heauen ordayned for her edification and vnitie and not one Pope ouer all Eph. 4. 13. But now he will enter one degree farther and suppose that a king may be as good as it is possible for any mortall man to be or as any Bishop and Priest is yet he can nether baptize consecrate forgiue sinnes praise excommunicate blesse nor be Iudge of doctrine by his kingly authoritie If he can doe none of those he can not be supreame gouernour in all Ecclesiasticall causes I denye this argument For his supremacie is not to doe those thinges or any of them but to prouide and commaund that they may be doon as they ought to be But he riseth vp againe and sayth that whosoeuer hath soueraigne authoritie either in ciuill matters or Ecclesiasticall he may in his owne person execute any of those thinges which any of his inferiours may do So he saith the king if he wil may be Iudge in VVestminster hall shrieue and constable yea he may play the tayler maister Carpenter or tanner It is maruell he sayth not that he may be both a king and subiect Likewise the primate he might as wel say the Pope may helpe a Priest to Masse cary the crosse in procession digge a graue c. I deny this rule to hold in all thinges For there are some thinges that the Prince may not doe for lacke of knowledge and some thinges for lacke of calling and yet he may commaund both to be done For controuersies of lawe he may not decyde except he haue knowledge of the law nor minister Phisick except he haue knowledge in phisicke yet he may command both Lawyers Phisitions to doe according to their knowledge likewise to preache baptize c. he may not because he lacketh calling for none may doe those thinges lawfully but he that hath a speciall calling but he may commaund those thinges to be done to be well done according to Gods lawe whereof he ought not to be ignorant and for that purpose is especially commaunded to study in the booke of Gods lawe that not onely in matters concerning his owne person but in matters concerning Gods honor he may cause all men to doe their duetie Deut. 17. 18. So did Dauid Salomon Iehosaphat Ezechias Iosias commaund the Priestes to offer vp the sacrifices and to doe their duetie which it was not lawfull for their kinges to execute And is it so straunge a matter that a popish king may not commaund his Chaplayne to saye Masse or to saye his Masse reuerently and orderly as the lawes of popery doe require if he may commaund ouer tho e matters which yet he may not doe him selfe let M. Sander see how his rule holdeth that whosoeuer hath authoritie in any matters may doe all thinges him selfe which any of his inferiours may doe or which he may commaund to be done whereupon he concludeth that the king hath no right or supreame power at all in Ecclesiasticall causes vnlesse it be committed to him from the Bishop so that a king if he be a Bishops commissary may doe that by M. Sanders exception w c nether by commaundement of God nor his kingly power he hath auctoritie to doe Another argument he bringeth as good as this that the lesser authoritie doth not comprehend the greater and therefore M Horne must aunswer him whether to preache baptize forgiue sinnes c. be greater or lesser ministerie then the kinges authoritie If it be greater then it can not be comprehended in the kinges authoritie which is lesser What that reuerend father the Bishop of Winchester hath aunswered it may be seene in his booke against M. Feckenham But to talke with you M. Sander what if I graunt that the Ecclesiasticall ministery is not comprehended in the kinges authoritie will you thereupon inferre that the kinges authoritie is not to commaund the ministers of the Church in these matters to doe their dueties according to the worde of God In deede you conclude so but your argument is naught For the king is Gods Lieuetenant to see both the Church and the common wealth to be wel ordered And the same thing may be greater and lesser then another in diuers respectes As in authoritie of commaunding the king is greater then the Phisition in knowledge practise of phisicke the king is lesse then the Phisition So in authority of coÌ„maunding the prince is greater then the minister but in authoritie of ministration he is lesse and no inconuenience in the world to the dignitie of other estate or calling The Bishop of Winchesters examples M. Sander saith are euil applyed For they only shew what was done and not what ought to haue bene done and so for many circumstaÌ„ces are subiect to much wrangling 1. For either he was no good Prince which medled with disposing of holy matters 2. or in that deede he was not good 3. or he did it by coÌ„mission from a Prophet or an high Priest 4. or he was deceiued by flatterers 5. or he was inforced by necessitie But all these quarells notwithstanding the examples of Scripture are so many and so playne that M. Sanders â—â—angling can not obscure them Dauid a good Prince did well in appoynting the Leuits and Priestes to their seuerall offices and forbidding the Leuits to cary the arke and the vessells thereof without any coÌ„mission from Priest or Prophet but onely by the word of God not deceyued by flatterers nor enforced by necessitie 1. Chron. 23.