better Sacrifice then hee he should have beene condemned of his owne conscience for the way was never the worse for Caines miscarriage And the way that Jacob walked in was the way of God though the sonnes of Jacob sinned They were godly and holy men in the maine though they missied it in selling their brother And did not God visit them in mercy to bring them to a sight of their sinnes when he caused their sheafs to bow downe to Josephs sheafe in Egypt and caused Joseph to afflict them to put them in minde of their sinne yea did it not worke that good effect upon them for which the Lord sent it by causing them to accuse themselves saying we are verily guilty concerning our brother in that wee saw the anguish of his soule when hee besought us and wee would not heare therefore this evill is come upon us Nay did not God further illustrate Josephs glory before them not only by making all their sheafes to bow downe to his sheafe but in letting it be seene that the Sun and the Moone and the eleaven starres fell downe before him when they all went downe into Egypt wee will not deny but that the sonnes of Jacob did fatally miscarry yet the way of God wherein they walked was not therefore to be abhorred and yet their miscarriages are set before us all as land-markes that we should take heede of running upon such shelves And I hope these Apologists have not forsaken the wayes of truth for the miscarriages of some that have walked in the way before them for you say they have beene active for their way since And I hope that they know that the way was Christs though Judas betrayed his Master Annanias and Saphira discembled and Symon Magus was proud and one of the Church of Corinth committed fornication and Demas forsook the way and embraced the world and Diotrephus Antichrist like sought for preheminence and many Balaamites crept into their society who preached for wages and if any should have said that the way of the Gospel was not the way of Christ because these persons and such as these did miscarry it would have discovered great ignorance in them for though they were spots in their feasts of charity yet the Church of God had alwaies power to cast them out and that without the helpe of a Synod which hath beene proved at large in my answer to your booke against Independency and Tolleration So that though the Saints of God who are chosen vessells unto him should faile as Peter did in denying his Master through the slavish feare that hee was in of that company of Priests which Crucified Christ in that time and the beleeving Corinths wrought upon to eate things sacrifised to Idolls according to the doctrine of Balaam as some of the Church of Pergamus and Thyatira were yet notwithstanding these personall infirmities the way of God wherein they walked ought not to bee abhorred but wee are to make the same use of these fatall miscarriages now as the people of God were to make then of the miscarriages of Noah Abraham Lot David Soloman Hezekiah and divers others and not to runne upon the same shelves And though these Apologists abhorred the miscariages of those that went before them in the way of Seperation yet by your report they still follow the way and so they ought for we are commanded to walke in the way of good men and to keepe the paths of the righteous But some may say can those be called righteous men that so miscarry We affirme still that the way is a righteous way and if any man that desireth from his heart to walke uprightly in it faile through infirmity hee hath an advocate with the father Jesus Christ the rihgteous and needeth not to goe to a Pope or a Synod for a pardon of his sinne Some peradventure will say you will have the Saints to bee subject to no Law If the Saints breake a just Law they must submit to the sensure of that Law if they breake their Covenant and violate it in sinning openly against any of the rules of Jesus Christ which hee hath given to his Church they are subject to bee sensured by the Church for the law was made for the disobedient But those that walke holily against such there is no law Magistrates were given for the punishment of evill doers and not onely so but for the praise of those that doe well and these are the two parts of the Magistrats duty which if they neglect they must answer it to God who sitteth in the Assembly of the Gods and weigheth all their proceedings And now what have you got by the Apologists declaration that they have observed the failings of the people of God You have meerely bewrayed your owne ignorance for if you had knowledge you might have made a better use of their speech You say their fourth thing that is good is their discription of the people of the Church of England I conceive they speake of some of whom they had hope because they conceived them to be plyable to receive what is brought them for truth and also capable to discerne error in some measure so it appeareth that if they preach errour the people are capable to discerne it But to leave this as a thing that doth not much concerne us that are Separates I will borow leave to paraphrase a little upon your applycation which you make of the miscariages of the Separation You say you would have had the Apologists to have made use of these mens fearfull sinnes to have deterd them from their way and you nominate Brown Boulton Barrow Smith and Jonson But here you commit two evills First you insinuate a slander against the dead Secondly you would have men forsake the the way of God for other mens failings For the first you speake of their fearfull sinnes but you mention nothing The greatest sin that ever I heard any of them accused withall was their going backe to communicate with the Churches of England and Rome which was a great sin indeed for Idolatry is as the sin of witchcraft and to speake the truth this is that great principle which hath caused so much division among the Separation You refer us to the stories of Brown Boulton Barrow Smith and Jonson I pray you Mr. Edwards what Stories are those and what are their fearfull sinnes therein mentioned It may be you mean some lying popish stories made by some trencher Poets for Prelates like the stories made by Mercurius Alicus at Oxford and some of those stories are by those who are best informed taâ—â—n to be like this booke of yours And like a booke written by Mr. Peter Studley my old Parish Priest which he wrote divers yeares agoe against the Professors in the Church of England concerning Enoch Abevan who because he was mad and in his madnes killed his Mother and his Brother this Mr. Studley called by the
honest party Study-ly inveighed against that way of profession and nonconforming as you doe against the way of Separation And touching the Apologists silence in not declaring the priciples which were the causes of the divisions I Answer It may be they did not perfectly see them But I pray you tell me how you dare charge all these men you have mentioned with fearfull sinnes If the sinnes were so fearfull which Brown and Jonson were guilty of the one in stepping backe to the Church of England for feare of persecution The other to the Church of Rome for feare of nullifying his baptisme because he had it in a false Church thinking that there could be no true Ordinance in any respect in a false Church and so was constrained through want of faith and light to justifie the Church of Rome and her daughters as Mr. Samuel Rutherford hath done tell me Mr. Edwards what case are you in then if their cases were so fearfull in justifying your Churches For surely upon your owne principles these were vertues to justifie your false Churches to be true Smiths you may know was of another nature for he went from the Churches of the Separation because he judged them unbaptised persons and that was his ignorance But what have you against Mr. Barrow Was there ever any thing justly layd to this Separates charge Hee was indeed hanged at Tyburne for maintaining That the Church of England was a false Church and so was Mr. Greenwood who was his companion and fellow Prisoner though there was no matter of fact layd to either of their Charge worthy of death or bonds These two men were put to death by the Prelates in Queen Elizabeths time without her knowledge or privity and that Early in a morning the figure of their sufferings being seen in the Sky by Mariners that were in other parts and it was supposed by the beholders of the figure then to be done in England because of the women's wearing of hats for the two poore widowes that attended upon them in the Prison waited upon them to the Gallowes bearing their winding sheets the figure of all which was seen as was said before But this was done without the Queens knowledge the greife whereof by relation of those who were neer her shee carried to her death Honest Penry suffered death about the same time he was hanged at Saint Thomas a wattrings Early in the morning And who dare say ought against these men but that they lived Saints where Sathans throne was and dyed as holy Martyrs of Jesus Christ as Antipas And it may be these are the fearfull judgements you meane befell them for no other judgements befell them in this life and they shall be freed from judgement in the life to come But such false miracles you Priests worke as hath beene told you at large in my answer to your booke against Tolleration to make all the world wonder and runne after the Beast saying who is like unto the beast who is able to make warr with him But why did you not say that those were fearfull judgements of God which came upon the Martyrs who were burnt in Smithfeild in Queen Maries time they suffered for the same cause as far as they saw then and the sentence against them as it came from the seat of the Magistrate came from heaven as well as the sentence against Barrow and Greenwood and Penry and all the rest of the people of God If you will deny this you will deny Queen Mary to be a lawfull Magistrate for the secular powers passed the sentence of condemnation then as in Queen Elizabeths time for when the preists once had cryed that such and such of the Saints were guilty then the Magistrates passed the sentence that so the Preists hands might be clensed from their bloud as witnesse Mr. Foxes booke But to leave these holy Saints at rest with God I will speake something of those that are living both the people of the Separation and the people of the Church of England As touching the people of the Separation they are all visibly holy If any root of bitternesse is seene to spring up amongst them it is cast out But you would intimate that the casting out of a sinner is a strong division or else what doe you mean by the strong divisions you speake of for there is no other division of the Separation but the separating the pretious from the vile That was a strong division which was made in the Church of Corinth when they cast out the incesteous person but it was a true holy and just division because God required it and they were not to keepe the feast of the Lord till they had made that division For if they had it would not have beene for the better but for the worse For they ought not to have kept the feast with old Leven Such holy divisions you seldome or never make in the Church of England neither indeed can you being all in confusion therefore you were not capable to pick motes out of other mens eyes for as much as the beames were so bigg in your owne And whereas those that commit sinne in the Churches of Christ are cast out and remaine no longer there and are not admitted againe without repentance The members of the Church of England committing sinne yea being common and ordinary and knowne sinners yet they are forced to be still of your Church or else they shall be punished yea though they commit sinne worthy of death and be condemned by the sentence of the Magistrat yet remain they uncast out of your Church as appeareth by giving the Sacrament to Theeves and Murderers when they are going to the Gallowes be they never so impenitent It may be objected This is a false charge for wee doe not now admit all to the Sacrament wee are about reforming The Church of England was never so deformed for the most part of the Kingdome as it is now yet there is not the worst Parish of the Church of England but it hath the Sacrament still by which actions the Priests become open violaters of Gods Commandements and that against their owne knowledge in casting Gods holy things to dogs yea the best in England that taketh upon him a Parish charge is guilty of this sinne actually in sealing the seed of wicked men with Baptisme yea and all men in the Church of England are guilty thereof that consent thereunto though it be but with silence But how can it be said that any of the people of the Church of England are wicked seeing they are all members of the Church for the dogs and enchanters c. are without Revel. 22.15 By this it appeareth what manner of Church the Church of England is even such a one as Mr. Henry Barrow hath discribed it to be long agoe for if you please to read but his discovery of a false Church which he wrote in prison you shall
see there he hath proved the Church of England to be as the Church of Rome is even Babylon a filthy cage of all unclean and hatefull birds But rather then you will take Mr. Barrowes advice and the counsell of the Holy Ghost to come from among them you will sooner helpe to hang all such Barrowes and then say it is the judgement of God upon them for none hath beene more forward then your selfe to persecute the Lords people as appeareth by your Writ of Ne admittas which you sent to the Parliament to keep the Petitions of the poore Saints out thence But it will not be for the Parliaments safety to take such wicked counsell as yours I hope the Parliament seeth by this time that God is making inquisition for bloud yea for the blrud of the Saints And therefore it is better that all sinne which hath beene committed should be repented of then that more should be added to the stock By all this you may see that the 4. things in the Apollogie which you say are good are good for us but not for you And if you had not beene benumed in your spirit you would never have taken up against us such weapons which if you had beene sensible you might have known would have come positively against your selfe But these tales which you tel in your Antipologia are like unto some of your tales which you tell the people in the Pulpit for there you say you will face the Separation and they will flie away but you are shrewdly mistaken For I who am one of the meanest dare give you the meeting and I hope to speed as well as I did when I met that ragged Regiment which you set out against Independency and Toleration which you called your Scout in your 8th Reason against Independency and joyned and subjoyned forces against Tolleration Moreover you say in your Antipologia that the Anabaptists cast away thir baptisme received in a false Church because they wil not put a new peice to an old garment And upon the same ground you say the Separation would have the Materiall Churches pulled down If this be one of the Anabaptists grounds as it may be it is then you may see their mistake For they ought to discerne between Baptisme in a false Church which is an Ordinance of God wch that Church hath stollen carried away in their Apostacie they ought I say to put a difference betwixt that and an Idol of their owne making as for example The circumcision which Jeroboam caried with him was Gods but the Calves were his owne Daggan and his Temple was the Philistems but the Arke was Gods And therefore if the Separates desire the pulling down of the Idols Temples they doe well but if these high places stand they will be no peice sowed to their garments for they touch them not But they have not been more forward in this good worke of the pulling downe of the Idols Temples then your self in writing to the Parliament for a whole and totall Reformation because they should not be blemished you would have them to pull downe the high places and all Idols and Idolatry as whosoever readeth your Epistle to your booke against Independency may see at large where your reasonable arguments are set down to the Parliament for that end and purpose But the Anabaptists have no such ground to put away their Baptisme which they received in a false Church as hath beene proved before The Calves and high places of Jeroboam were to be done away and it was their duty to demolish them because they were a curse to the Land and Idols of his owne making as hath beene said before But the Circumcision which was Gods which they carried away with them they brought againe to Gods Temple as wee have done our Baptisme and were accepted By all which it appeareth that you are able to lay no errour to the chage of the Separation Moreover in this your Antipologie you advance and extoll your booke against Independencie and Tolleration You say that the Apologists meant that as well as others which were written with strength against there way And secondly you affirme it to bee argumentall and that therefore it behoved either all or some of them to have answered it I Answer They know best what they have to doe yet for my owne part I did conceive it ought to have beene answered and therefore I answered it my selfe and that for these reasons First because you should not be wise in your owne conceit Secondly because I read that our Saviour Christ answered Sathan when Sathan brought false arguments against him and it is also written that we should be ready to give a reason of our hope to every one that shall aske us and I considering the many questions that you asked and the weakenesse of your reasons and arguments and the untruths of some of them and how contradictory they were to one another thought it very easie to undermine and overthrow them therefore I answered them holding it meet for those who were more able not to trouble themselves therewith but to be employed in matters of farre greater and higher concernement But seeing you are yet so bold as to stand in it to affirme that your booke was argumentall and ought to have beene answered by them all or some of them I desire againe to repeat the heads of some of the Cheifest of your arguments that so rationall men may consider whether they be truely Logicall The substance of your first Argument is this It s evident that the Church of God could not stand without some other helpe then Apostles Prophets Evangelists Pastors Teachers and all other Officers But you have not declared any evidence neither Scripture nor true reason what must wee then beleeve you upon your bare word I will not for that were to make you a God or at least one infalliably inspired Your second argument is that the Government of Independent or seperated Churches is not of divine institution because it forceth them to have Ministers without Ordination which thing is an untruth like your former as hath been proved at large in the Answer thereunto and there are divers untruths in this reason or section which have been answered as will plainely appeare to those that will take the paines to reade your booke and mine Your third is that it is not to be thought that Christ would leave such a Governement that affords no way of appeale c. This is answered at large that the Churches of the Separatâ—â—â—â— have true waies of appeale But the Church of England hath not These be your mighty Arguments of strength which deserved an answer though you proved none of them If the answer which I sent you already have not sufficiently proved your arguments to be groundlesse declare I pray you what substantiall point is not answered if there be any substantialls in them and it shall be answered by Scripture and
us we ought not to goe to law with one another before those that are without for temporall things much lesse about spirituall things For the Apostle hath declared that the Saints shall judge the world yea the Angels If this be true as no understanding man can deny then it would be a more greivious sinne and woefull adultery for the Spouse of Jesus Christ to seeke or sue to a power that is neither Jure Divino nor Jure Humano And now I will speake something to these your 8. reasons against tolleration though they are of the same nature with the other in the first book and so have been answered already yet to satisfie the Reader more fully I will here give answer unto them particularly But I would have you all men know that I doe not neither doe any that are truly religious plead for such a Toleration as you would father upon us even a Toleration to sinne We plead not for a Toleration of all sorts of persons who are members of the Church of England for that were to plead for a Toleration for Theeves and Murderers and Adulterers and Sabbath-breakers and all sorts of wicked livers that all men might doe as they list But the thing wee plead for is a peaceable enjoyment of our liberty to worship God publikely according to his revealed word most especially upon that time instituted for his publike worship even the first day of the weeke being the Lords day And that all the 6. dayes we may follow our callings without feare of the execution of such unjust Lawes which former Parliaments have made against such who would not come to their Common Prayer book or submit to all the orders of the Parishes of England for such a Toleration as this we plead IN your first reason you affirme that a Toleration of Independent Churches and governement with their opinions and practise is against the Magistrates duty laid down in the Scripture But I have proved it to be the Magistrates duty to Tolerate the true worship of God and those practises which are according to the word But you would insinuate still your old slander that we plead for a toleration of herisie and Scisme which we know is against the Magistrates duty and this maketh against your evill way For if a Parliament may not as you say displease God to please men nor winke at evill to content some persons And if Parliaments in making lawes for religion must depend on the will of God revealed in his word and not upon the consciences of some People Then it is dangerous for a Parliament to constraine men to submit to the decrees of a Synod or Presbytery when neither the Presbytery nor their decrees have ground in the word of God YOur second reason is that The Toleration desired is against the Solemne League and Covenant taken by the Parliament and Kingdomes and therefore the Toleration desired comes to late the doores being shut Ans. Here you lay a fearfull aspertion upon the Parliament for requiring such an Oath and Covenant as if they intended to shut the Kingdome of Christ and his true worship out of the three Kingdomes for you say further If the toleration were lawfull in it selfe yet because of the Oath and Covenant it is unlawfull though it might have beene granted before it cannot be granted now least the Kingdome should be guilty before God of Covenant breaking Ans. Surely you will make the Parliament all like Herod they must take poore John Baptists head off because of their oath But is this oath so foule as you would make it and yet is it like the Decree of the Medes and Persians that it may not be altered WellsGod can deliver * poore Daniell in the Lyons denne and it may be you shall come in our stead when once the Parliament discerneth your wicked intentions But Mr. Edwards bethinke your selfe will not you blush and be ashamed to give in the oath in these termes as you have ever exprest it in this your second Reason pag. 283. that we are to endeavour the reformation of Religion in the Kingdomes of England and Ireland in Doctrine Worship Governement and Discipline according to the example of the best reformed Churches forgetting the word of God which ought to have beene set before you as it was indeede by the Parliament But you deale by the Covenant as you deale by the Scriptures hack them and mangle and labour to make them fit for your owne turne and yet you jeered the Apologists when they spake of the way and practise of their Churches because they did not name the Law or Oâ—d Testament in expres words though they in the same place testifie that they reverence and adore the fulnesse of Scriptures and their sufficiency to make us perfect c. but here you have shamefully forgotten your selfe and overslipt both Law Gospel And so tye your selves to mens patterns without the word of God And surely I cannot beleeve that the Parliament hath Covenanted so as you inferre in the same page of your booke How say you can they grant a tolleration so different as their way is that will not depend upon a Synod And in the next page of the same Reason you say that there is in the Covenant a clause in the second branch that wee shall without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of Scisme and whatsoever shall bee found contrary to sound Doctrine and the power of godlinesse least we pertake in other mens sinnes Now surely Mr. Edwards I wonder that wise men can smile upon you except it be in consideration of your folly for you are made all of contradictions unlesse you would have us take it for granted that it is according to sound doctrine and the power of godlinesse that a number of Priests should bee called together of contrary religions some for the Bishops and some for the Presbyterie and some for Christ and that the two first casting aside the last should agree to make decrees a Parliament should bee bound to establish them Would this bee now to extripate scisme nay it would be to establish a grand scisme For godlinesse is cast out by the two first and the Parliament must establish what ever shall be thought of those two first to be sound whether it be for the Bishops the antient fathers or for the Presbyters their younger sonnes and so you would have the Parliament to bee indeede guilty of their sinnes YOur third Rreason is that A Tolleration is against the nature of a Reformation and here you discover your selfe in this Reason that the Reformation you intend to make is to force all men in the Kingdom to submit to some perticular forme for you say you cannot make a reformation but it must offend many consciences But if it be so it will be the consciences of them that have knowledge in the word of God For the ignorant multitude will bee offended at
come to that but if not say you why then should it be tolerated In this I thinke you say right stand to this and let it come to the tryall and doe not insinuate against the Church way as you have done in this page and divers other places of your booke where you say the Divell would affect thâ—â—lleration of it For that tolleration wch the Devill would affect is that tolleration which you would slanderously father upun us and not the tolleration we seeke for And therefore I would have you to correct your language and search and try your wayes as you exhort the Apollogists to doe Consider with what spirit and intention you writ this booke Let your conscience reflect upon what is plainely layd downe before you in the Answer to your former booke and in this And doe not seeke shifts and superfuges Consider and receive admonition though it be from a woman I am sure many godly persons and Churches beyond the seas are grieved at your writing as well as in this Country Consider how that though you were cryed up by the worser sort whose Champion you were become and that your confidence was so of carying any thing and saying any thing yet your witt so strong for you hath deceived you Let my councell therefore be acceptable unto you Repent Repent of making this Antipologie give glory to God and recant it testifie your Repentance by comming out of your false estate and recall this Antipologia I have shewed unto you the greatnesse of your sinne and folly in particular in making this Antipologia as well as your former booke They were both unseasonable disordered sinfull and ungrounded vapours scandalizing the Churches of Christ There are many untruths in them both that not onely where you make naked relations of Tales but where you make profession before God and the World to bring sufficient reasons when indeede you bring nothing but shadowes and fig-leaves And this sinne of yours is agravated by your labouring to bring the houses to consent unto you to keepe under the people of God and to roote them out of the Kingdome or at least not to suffer them to performe publike worship in the way which God requireth Now if a simple and single untruth neede repentance what repentance ought there to bee for such a compounded agravated evill as your is And as I have represented it to your own conscience that you may repent and be humbled So I turn you over to the Parliament to deale with you for the same Now if you had beene a Member of a true Church I could have admonished you in another way But you being in disorder could not be dealt with by such an Order For what have I to doe to judge them also that are without 1 Cor. 5.12 FINIS ☞ * â—n his 5. Reason aâ—ainst toâ—eration * Zech. 13.7 * Pulpit turned into Cockpits * In your Introduction * Pag. 73. 1 Sam. 13.14 * Psal. 119.32 * Pag. 219. Answ. Joh. 16.13 Answ. Answ. Answ. Gen. 37.7 8 9 10. Gen. 42. and 43. and 44. c. Objection Answer Objection Answer Answer ☜ ☞ ☞ Revel. 13 1 Cor. 5. Objection Answer Objection Answer ☞ Answer ☜ ☞ ☞ Mr. Rutherford hath divers times in his booke named or rather nicknamed me in stead of answering me he hath made a shew to repeat some of my arguments and yet there was no argument in my booke so childish though he calleth them so which he hath answered no nor so much as set my arguments downe indeed as they are as whosoever taketh the paines to read his book mine may see Isa. 2 6. ☜ ☜ Acts 20. * That were to goe from the greater to the lesser and you your self doe aske what a rule is this Pag. 136. Gospel Covenants doe not teach men to persecute Mark 6 26. * Dan. 6. ☞ ☞ ☜ ☜ ☜ ☞ Answer ☜ Rev. 13.24 ☞ ☞ ☜ ☜