encreased But these thyngs are not de substantia Sacramenti and therfore not sufficient to proue that the Supper is not sincerely ministred M. Bucer likewyse in his censure vpon the booke of Cōmon prayers is of the same iudgement his wordes be these The thirde chapter M. Bucers opinion is of the substance forme and breaking of bread vvhiche all doe vvell inough agree vvith the institution of Christe vvhome it is manifest to haue vsed vnleuened breade and easy to be broken for hee brake it and gaue to his disciples peeces of the breade broken Touching the forme and figure vvhether it were rounde or square there is nothyng declared of the Euangelistes And bicause this breade is vsed onely for a signe and not for corporall nourishemente I see not vvhat can be reprehended in this description of the breade vvhiche is in this booke excepte some vvoulde peraduenture haue it thicker that it maye the more fully represente the forme of true breade T. C. Pag. 130. Sect. vlt. I haue spoken of this bread before in generall and if M. Doctor did not disagree with himselfe we are here well agreed For first he fay the it skilleth not what bread we haue 〈◊〉 by and by he sayth that he wisheth it were common bread and assigneth a great cause which the booke of seruice likewise assigneth which is to auoyd superstition and it is certaynly knowen by experience that in diuers places the ignorant people that haue bin misseled in poperie haue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 kneeled vnto it and held vp their hands whilest the minister hathe giuen it not those only whiche haue receiued it but those whiche haue bin in the Churche and looked on I speake of that whiche I know and haue seene with my eyes Another reason is alleadged by M. Bucer whiche is that there being some thicker substance of bread and such as should moue and stirre vp the tast better the consideration of the mind which is conneyed by the senses might be also the more effectuall and so the frute of receyuing greater By the way note that eyther (*) Or else you speake of a matter you know not Bucers censures vppon the booke of seruice be falsely ascribed vnto him or be corrupted or else were not euen in his owne time here thought good substantiall and sufficient when there is some cause by act of Parliament afterward found I meane in the second booke of King Edward to mislike water cakes and to change them into common bread Howsoeuer it be that circumstance would be well marked that it was one thing to talke of a water cake in the vse of y e supper in King Edwards dais before they were iustly abolished and another thing now being reuoked after they were renioued Io. Whitgifte I am constant and agrée with my selfe in the truth I thanke God for it I knowe the kind of bread to be indifferents my priuate iudgemēt I haue in my Answer vttered But in such matters I submit my selfe to the determination of the Church to whome God doth giue his spirit most aboundantly so long as it followeth and embraceth the truth The daunger that you speake of is in the forme and figure of the bread not in the other qualities nor in the substance and therfore not perteyning to any thing that I haue spoken For the question is of leauened or vnleauened breade not of roundnesse or squarenesse c. Although the forme and figure also is indifferente and in the power of the Churche to appoynt wherfore there may no schisme or diuision in the Churche be made for it M. Bucers censures were vpon the firste booke in King Edwards time not vppon Bucers censure vpon the first booke 〈◊〉 King Edwards days the second therefore you are deceiued The Church hath authoritie in things indifferent to abolish or reuoke as occasion serueth and therefore that circumstance is not worthe the noting Chap. 1. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 131. Sect. 1. Besides that we be called by the example of our sa ionce Christ to vse the supper vsual and common bread for what time our Sauioure Christ celebrated his supper there was no other bread to be gotten but vnleauened bread there being astraight charge giuen by the law that there should be then no leauened bread and it is not to be doubted but that if there had in then when he celebrated his supper as at other times nothing but leauened bread he would not haue caused vnleauened bread to haue bin made for that purpose of celebrating his supper Io. Whitgifte It was not vsuall bread but properly appoynted for the celebrating of the passouer Christ vsed vnleuened bread and then to be vsed and not otherwise vsually and commonly for their vsuall and common bread was leauened wherefore this maketh against you and if you will haue the commaundements that appertethe to the eating of the passouer perpetuall Pa. 130. Sect. 2 and to be referred to the celebrating of the Lords supper as by that precept 2. Chro. 35. before alleadged it seemeth you would then must we make it a matter of necessitie to haue vnleauened bread but as that is 〈◊〉 so is this also for the kind of bread is indifferent although as M. Bucer sayth it commeth nearer to the institution The kind of bread of itself indifferent of Christe to vse vnle uened bread b cause he did celebrate his supper with it if there wer not other circumstances and reasons to moue the Church sometimes to vse the contrary Chap. 1. the. 8. Diuision T. C. Pag. 131. Sect. But this is a grosse ouersight of M. Doctor both 〈◊〉 this section and that whiche goeth 〈◊〉 fore that he hath not learned to make a difference betwene that which is not ncerely done that which is not at al done For in the former 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vpon the Admonition bicause they conclude that for as much as there is no examination therefore it is not 〈◊〉 and sincerely ministred For saythe he the examination of the communicantes is not of the Iubstaunce of the sacrament and in this section he saith that for as much as it is not of the substance of the sacramēt whether there be leauened or vnleauened bread therefore it is not sufficiently proued that the sacrament is not sincerely ministred but he ought to haue vnderstanded that if eyther the matter of the sacrament as bread and wine or the forme of it which is the institution which things are only substantiall parts were wanting that then there should haue bin no sacrament ministred at all but they being reteyned and yet other things vsed which are not conuenient the sacrament is ministred but not sincerely For example in the popish baptisme there was the substance of baptisme but there being vsed spittle and creame and candels and such beggerly trumperie it was not sincerely ministred therefore it is one thing to minister sincerely and another thing to minister so that that which is of
in the Defense for Archbishops and the superiority of Bishops 470. c. ¶ Archdeacons 344. c. ¶ Archiflamines 320. c. 323 ¶ Argumentum à secundùm quid ad simpliciter 23 Argumentum ab authoritate negatiuè 24. 26. 77. 328. 543 Argument of Negatiues by comparison 26 27 Argumentum à petitione principij 26. 62. 95. 249. 302. 304. 314. 322. 440. 451. Argumentum à non causa pro causa 27. 293. 482. Argumentum ab aequivocatione 62 Argumentum à facto ad us 142. 161. 505. Argumentum ab authoritate affirmatiuè 78 Argumentum ex solis particularibus pag. 79 Argumentum ab ignorantia Elenchi 109. 181. 187. 206. 426. A deformed argument 316. c. Arguments borowed of the Papists 466. 696. 697. 698. c. Argumentum à toto ad partes affirmatiuè 265 ¶ Aristotle not rightly alleaged 243 ¶ Arrogancie cloked with zeale 42 Arrogancie disprayseth good things pag. 725 Arrogancie of the libellers 57 ¶ Assertion vnaduised 475 ¶ Athanasius Archbishop 471. 339 Athanasius Creede 496 Athanasius being a child baptized pag. 519. ¶ Atheists in the Church 178 ¶ Auncient Fathers contemned of the vnlearned 811 ¶ Augustine of thinges indifferent pag. 99. c Augustine deliuered from vntrue surmises 100 Augustine heareth ciuill causes 771. 772. Augustine retorted vpon the aduersarie 811 ¶ Aurelius Bishop of Carthage had the ouersight of many Churches pag. 471 ¶ Authoritie the best proofe in Diuine matters 200 B ¶ Babling in prayer what it is 805 ¶ Baptisme the sacrament of fayth pag. 608. 609 Matters touching baptisme 607. c Of the parties to be baptised 619. c Baptisme once ministred remaineth perpetuall 622 The essentiall poynte of Baptisme pag. 519. Baptisme called priuate in respect of the place 93. 504 Baptisme ministred but once a yere pag. 238 Baptisme true though not ordinarily ministred 517. 521 Differring of Baptisme not cōuenient 521 Baptisme by lay men 518. 519. 523. Baptisme by women not collected out of the booke 504. 793. Baptisme by women not defended pag. 509. 516. 29. Baptisme ministred in priuate places 511. c. 513. Necessitie in Baptisme 523. Baptisme ministred withoute preaching 563 The name of Baptisme transferred to the giftes of the spirit 564 ¶ Basilius a Metropolitane 341. 471 ¶ Battus a babling Poet. 805 ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 804 ¶ Beggers and ignorant persons are thoughte onely to bee saued of some 10 ¶ To beleue and to be elected not al one 611 ¶ Benedictus 494. c. 496. 497 ¶ Beza calleth the names of Archbishops c. holy names 472 Beza his iudgemēt of baptising the children of excommunicate person c. 623. 624. ¶ Bishops moste mete to haue the examination of ministers 131 Bishope haue authoritie to admitte ministers 196. c Bishops appointe their successours pag. 205 Bishops authoritie 297. c 408. Bishops called heades of the Churches 301 One ministerie of Bishops but diuerse degrees 320 A Byshop aboue a priest in Cyprians time 358 One Byshoppe in one Cittie 366. 444. Difference betwixte Byshoppe and Priest 383 Byshoppes in the Apostles tymes pag. 384. 470 Ieromes Byshoppe aboue an Elder in rule 385 Byshops gouernours simply not of one action onely 3 Byshoppes authoritie consisteth in offences 75 Byshop high priest 411. 470. 471. VVhat kinde of authoritie Byshops exercise 420 Byshoppes succede Apostles in gouernment 32 Comparison betwixte our Byshope and the olde Bishops 472 〈◊〉 Byshops alone excommunicate 6 6 c. Byshops may haue assistance in excommunication 673 Authoritie ascribed to Bishops in x communication not infinite but limited 6 8 Byshops gaue sentence in ciuill causes 773 ¶ A Bloudy assertion 150 ¶ Booke of common prayer Looke Communion Booke Booke of ordering Ministers iustifyed concerning examination pag. 134. 〈◊〉 42 The reasons of T. C. agaynste the Booke of ordering Ministers pag. 134. c ¶ Bodye what it signifieth in Caluine 46 Of these wordes The Body of ou e Lord Iesus Christ. c. 6 ¶ Bragges 58. 297 ¶ Bread in the Communion Looke Communion Bread ¶ Brethren may be punished 809 ¶ Bucer of things indifferēt 113. c. Bucers censure of the first Communion Booke 595 615 Bucer defaced by the Replyer 522 ¶ Burialls 727. c The place of Buriall 737 The dutie of the minister not hindred by burying the dead 730 A prayer at Buryall expounded pag. 729 The dead buryed by the minister with prayer 728 Buriall Sermons Looke funerall sermons C ¶ Caius Fimbria 7 8 ¶ Caluine acknowledgeth the names of Archbishop c. 417. c Caluine of thinges indifferente 109 c. Caluine alloweth Superioritie 390. 398. Diuerse editions of Caluines institutions 391. 50 Caluines opinion of Communion bread 592. c ¶ Canon law not altogether condemned 463 c ¶ Can is not taken for ought 778 ¶ Catechist and pastor differ 425 Catechi mes 152. c ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 69 ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 69 ¶ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 280 ¶ Cathedrall Churches 742. c Cathedrall Churches before Antichristian Popes 747 A Colledge of Ministers in euery citie 747. Our Cathedrall Churches not much differing from those of old time pag. 747 The vse of Cathedrall Churches necessary 747 ¶ Cauilles 130. 352. 401. 506. 574. 585 628. ¶ A Caueat 448 A necessary caueat 481 ¶ Ceremonies of 2. sortes 80 How we haue but 2. ceremonies 119 Substantiall ceremonies 80 Accidentall ceremonies 80 Rules of ceremonies 86. 87 The controuersie about ceremonies confessed by T. C. 85. 86. 126 Euery church hath an order of ceremonies 707 How Ceremonies serue to edifying pag. 286. c. VVhy God appointed so many ceremonies to the Iewes 305 Disterence betwixt Popish ceremonies and oures 616 The ground of the Assertion about ceremonies vnanswered by T. C. pag. 94 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 158. c. 163 ¶ Children of Papists and excommu nicate persons may bee baptisedpag 621. c How children are said to beleue 608 ¶ Christ called Archbishop 300 Christ vsed vnleauened biead 593. c. ¶ Christian men sheepe but reasonable 172 The number of Christiās more now than in the Apostles times 175 ¶ Chrisostome an Archbishop 412. c. 472. Chris stome exerciseth Archiepiscopall iurisdiction in Asia 414 Chrisostome of distinctiō of degrees pag. 387 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 682 ¶ Church cannot be shut vp in one prouince now 465 The Church is reformed not transformed 474 To frame all churches after one is daungerous 481. 482 Church for the gouernours of the church 636. 66 No church maye challenge to bee a patterne necessarily to be followed 704 The church full of hypocrites 176 Some in the church and not of the church 179 No church established in the Apostles time how 180. 18 The church in persecution in Constantines time 188. 189 The Authoritie of the church in things indifferent 76. c. VVhat thinges are left to the order of the church 83. 88. c. 713. The
determination of the church ought not lightly to be altered 89 ¶ Churching of women 534. c. The cause of the womans absence from the church after hir dehuerance 535 ¶ Circumstances necessarie are commaunded 512 ¶ Circumcision a sacrament 618 Circumcision in priuate houses 515 ¶ Cypriā chooseth without consent of the people 205 Cyprian of the office of an Archbishop 354. c. 367. c. Cyprian a Metropolitane 356. 438. 470. ¶ Ciuil offices in Ministers 749. c. Ciuill offices in our Ministers tend to the gouernment of the church pag. 75 Ciuill authoritie not claimed but committed to our Bishops 752 Some Ciuill offices rather helpes than hinderances to Bishops 753 Augustine iudgeth ciuill causes pag. 772. Ciuil iurisdiction that the Pope claimeth not like to that in vse in this church 759. 778 A greater ciuill iurisdiction sought for in disprouing the lesse 760 Ciuil iurisdictiō in vse in this church is in some respect ecclesiasticall pag. 766. 771 Ciuill and Ecclesiasticall offices met in one 767. 771. Ciuil offices in ministers not against the word of God 773. The practise of the Church for ciuil offices in ministers 773. Ciuill businesse incident to Byshops by the iudgemente of the holye Ghost 772. 774. ¶ Clement 319. c. Clements Epistle read in the church pag. 719. ¶ Collect vpon Trinitie Sunday 491 Collect of the 12. Sunday after Trinitie Sunday 491. ¶ Coemiteria 250. ¶ Commaundementes of diuerse kindes 103. All the commaundementes of God and of the Apostles are not nedefull for our saluation 103. ¶ Cōmunitie in the Apostles times pag. 162. ¶ Comelinesse externall is alterable 98. The iudgement of comelinesse resteth not in priuate men 87. ¶ Communion Booke 474. c. Communion in priuate places 5 4. 525. Communion ministred to the sicke pag. 527. c Of the number of Communicantes pag. 528. c. Basill would haue 12. at the least to communicate 530. Of compelling men to communicate 531. 532. 605. Men not meete to cōmunicate may be admitted to the hearing of the word and prayer 533. The Apostles began the communion wyth the Lordes prayer 588. 602. Matters touching the Communion pag. 588. c. Examination of Communicantes pag. 591. c. Two things worthie to be noted of Communicantes 592. Examination of communicants not disallowed 593. Communion bread 593. c. Alexander appoynted vnleauened breed 594. Bucers opinion of Communion bread 594. Caluines opinion of Communion bread 594. Christ vsed vnleauened bread 595. The kinde of bread indifferent 595. Communion at mariages 724. Of shutting mē from the Communion 603. Men persisting in wickednesse are not to be compelled to the communion 605. Halfe communion 737. The makers of the Communion booke praised 711. ¶ Companions of Paule chosen by consent and why 163. ¶ Comparisons vnequall 710. ¶ Conferēce a cause of better know ledge 176. Conference offered to the Replyer hath bene by him refused 354. 7. ¶ Confirmation 725. c 785. 786. Abuse of confirmation in the Popishe Church 786. Confirmation of old time like ours pag. 786. Confirmation at the length allowed 794. The ende of confirmation 794. ¶ Confusion follovveth the doctrin of the Admonitors 3. 559. 746. ¶ Conscientia mille testes 503. ¶ Consuls and their authoritie 396. ¶ Constantine made Ecclesiasticall lawes 698 ¶ Contention defended 34. 377. Contentiō a hinderance to the profession of diuinitie 141. VVho be contentious 13. 14. ¶ Contraries may be defined wyth one difference 124 Some delighte to be contrarie to tymes 283. Men of contrarie iudgement ioy ne against the truth 51. Howe contraries muste be cured by contraries 476. ¶ Conuenticles 41. ¶ Corruption 485 Corruption in the Churche in the Apostles time 349. ¶ Councels summoned by princes page 436 Varietie about the time of the coūcell of Nice 330. The meaning of the. 6. Can. of the councell of Nice Controuersie about the number of Canons of the councell of Nyce page 334. The seconde councell of Nyce alleaged by the Replyer 247. A corrupt councell of Vrbane alleaged by the Replyer 23. A corrupt councell of Hispall alleaged by the Replyer 442. ¶ Courtes of Byshops 679. c. Court of faculties 561. Ecclesiasticall courtes executed in the Princes name 680. ¶ Crossing in Baptisme 614. c. Difference betwixt the papists crossing and ours 616. Crossing no Sacrament 617. ¶ Curates allowed 245. ¶ Cursed things consecrated to god page 284. D. ¶ Damasus alleaged to a wrong pur pose 248. Damasus added Gloria patri 489. ¶ Dayes obseruing of dayes 546. 547. 549. 〈◊〉 kindes of obseruing of Dayes 546 ¶ Deacons chosen by consent and vvhy 164 Of ministring preaching by Deacons 582. c Philip a Deacon baptised 582. 515 Deacons helpe in the ministration pag. 585 The Deaconship a step vnto the ministery 587 Deacons baptised 588. c. More pertayneth too the office of a Deacon than prouision for the poore 687. c. Some parte of the Deacons office not necessary vnder a Christian Prince 689. 690 VVhether Deacons were in euerye congregation 689 VVhy the Apostles left the Deaconship 758 ¶ Deanes 347. 746 ¶ Decrees pertayning too order not onely humane 107 ¶ Degrees of honour in the ministerie 458 Degrees in Diuinitie condemned 780. 781. Degrees in the Vniuersitie condemned 782 To take away Degrees is barbarousnesse 420 To be deliuered from euill what it signifieth 498 ¶ Demetrius bishop of Alexandria and Egypt 470 ¶ Defyling the nature of thinges is not in mans power 285 How farre the precepte in Deuteromie is extended 117 ¶ Digressions frō the matter to the persons 24. 235. 351. 370. 512. ¶ Dic Ecclesiae interpreted 636. 663 ¶ Dionisius Areopagita Archbishop of Athens 470. 324 Dionysius Ariopagite vsed of maister Ievvell agaynst Harding 608 Dionysius Alexandr Bishop of Alexandria and Pentapolis 470 Dionysius Corinthius b 719 Dionysius Corinth his epistles read in the Church 719 Dionysius deuided parishes 249. 250. ¶ Dioscorus Archbishop 338. 471. ¶ Discipline necessarie 559 Matters concerning Discipline 660 VVherein Discipline consisteth 661 The execution of Discipline not gyuen equally to all 313 ¶ Distinction quoad ministerium quoad ordinem iustified 390 Disobedience in ciuill matters is disobedience to God 282 Dissention domesticall the fo erunner of Destruction 705 ¶ Doctors of law left out of the Admonition and way 783 ¶ Doctrine framed to mens persons pag. 148 All pointes of Doctrine pure in this Church 129 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 interpreted 461 ¶ Dominion hath diuerse significations 63 Some kind of temporall Dominion denied to ministers 64 A minister maye exercise temporall Dominion 64. 65 ¶ Donatists and their properties 50. 622. ¶ A doubtfull saying 255 ¶ Drun kardes in the visible church pag. 177 E ¶ Easter obserued of the Apostles pag. 〈◊〉 ¶ King Edwardes priestes left 〈◊〉 pag. 〈◊〉 ¶ Elections act 1. act 6. agree 〈◊〉 pag. 〈◊〉 Elections by the people not 〈◊〉 in the Apostles time 〈◊〉 Elections by the people not generall in
would not gladly sée or here I told you there that Iustinus Martyr speaketh of this matter in his second Apologie and in his booke of questions and that Tertullian speaketh of the same in his booke de corona militis It hathe pleased you in that whiche followeth to Neyther dumbe nor speaking persons cā please T. C. reproue me for translating into my booke other mens opinions and authorities and here though I haue quoted the places where you may find them yet is it also your pleasure to spende your gibing and iesting eloquence vppon me for not translating them Well I will deceyue your expectation and make them speake Iustinus Martyr in his second Apology sayth that they vsed in baptising to call vpon the name of God for suche as were baptised and after baptisme to carrie hym that was baptised Iustin. Apo. 2. to the place where the brethren be gathered togyther to praye bothe for themselues and for hym also that is baptised and in the ende of their prayers that they salute one another with a kisse Likewise he there saythe that when they celebrated the Ibidem Lordes supper there was vsed certaine prayers and thankesgyuing to the whiche the people sayde Amen Also that the Deacons did gyue to the people the bread and the cuppe and carrie them lykewise to suche as were absent In his booke of questions Iustin. lib. quae he sheweth howe that singing was vsed in the Churche and commendeth it and that they vsed not to kneele at prayers on the Sunday in token of the resurrection Dyuers other suche ceremonies and orders dothe he recite vsed in hys tyme not prescribed by the worde of God but appoynted by the Church whereof some now be abrogated bycause they be not so fitte for this time as they were for that time Irenaeus speaketh very playnelye in that Epistle whyche he writte to Irenaeus Uictor Byshoppe of Rome whereof also Eusebius maketh mention lib. 5. cap. 25. 26. In that Epistle he declareth the diuersitie of diuers Churches for the daye of Easter the tyme of fasting and such like whiche plainely argueth that the scripture hath not determined all things but left muche to the disposition of the Church Tertullian in his booke aduersus Praxean saythe that the Churche then vsed tern Tertul. Idem mersione in baptismo thirst dipping in baptisme And in his booke de corona militis although he recite some thinges whiche in tyme grew to be superstitious yet dothe he there playnely declare what his opinion is in this matter he reciteth diuers customs of the Churche then vsed whereof there is no mention in the scriptures he declareth that those whiche were to be baptised must firste professe that they renounced the Deuill his pomp and his Angels and that then they were thrice dipt in the water amplius aliquid respondentes quam dominus in Euangelio determinauit answering somewhat more than the Lorde hath determined in the gospell Likewise he sheweth that the sacrament of the supper which the Lord celebrated at supper and commaunded to all was then celebrated in the morning and ministred only by those that be the chiefe And in the end he sayth barum aliarum buiusmodi disciplinarum si legem expostules scripturarum nullam inuenies c. of these and such like orders if thou shouldest require a law out of the scriptures thou shalt finde none and a litle after he addeth Annon putas omni fideli licere concipere constituere duntaxat quod Deo congruat quod disciplinae conducat quod Saluti proficiat dicente domino Cur autem non a vobis ipsis quod iustum est iudicatis doest thou not thinke that it is lawfull for euery faithfull man to conceiue and appoynte at the least that which agreeth to God whiche is conuenient for discipline whiche is profitable vnto saluation seeing the Lord sayth why do you not of your selues iudge that that is right And in his booke De virginibus Veland He hath these manifest words Regula Idem quidem fidei vna omninò est sola immobilis irreformabilis credendi scilicet in Deum vnicum ☞ omnipotentem c. Hac lege fidei manente caetera iam disciplinae conuersationis admittunt nouitatem correctionis operante scilicet proficiente vsque in fiuem gratia Dei There is only one rule of faith which alone is immoueable and not to be altered to witte to beleeue in one God the omnipotent creator of the worlde and in his sonne Iesus Christe borne of the Virgine Mary crucifyed vnder Pontius Pilate risen the thirde day from the dead receyued into Heauen sitting nowe at the righte hande of the father and shall come to iudge the quicke and the dead by resurrection of the fleshe this lawe of faithe remayning the other thynges of disciplyne and trade of lyfe do admitte alteration of amendmente the grace of GOD woorking and profiting too the ende Cyprian Lib. 10. Epist. 12. mentioneth certaine rites about Baptisme no where spoken of in the Scriptures and Lib. 4. Epist. 6. he sheweth it to haue bene the maner of the Church then to receiue the Communion euery day which the Scripture doth not commaunde Cyprian Idem Thus you sée that these Doctors be not dumbe but can speake sufficiently in that matter for the which they are alleaged And leaste you should cauill bycause I saye that others also be of the same Iudgement recyting onely Saynte Augustyne I haue caused Ambrose Ierome and Basill to beare wytnesse in the same matter The wordes of Ambrose be these After that Churches were appoynted in euery place Ambrose in Ephe. and offices ordayned the matter beganne otherwyse to be ordered c. And after that he had declared the difference betwixte the Apostolicall Churche and the Churche in hys tyme touchyng Ceremonyes and gouernmente he concludeth thus Therefore ☜ doe not the writyngs of the Apostles in all respectes agree wyth the order which is now in the Churche bycause these were written in the firste beginnings Ierome writing ad Ierome Lucinium and answering hys questions touchyng fastyng on the Sabboth daye and dayly receyuyng the Communion sayth on this sorte sed ego illud te breuiter admonendum puto traditiones ecclesiasticas presertim quae fidei non officiant ita obseruandas vt à maioribus traditae sunt Nec aliorum consuetudinem aliorum contrario modo subuerti But this thyng I thinke meete briefely to admonishe thee of that the Ecclesiasticall traditions namely suche as doe not hynder faythe are so to be obserued as they are delyuered of oure elders neyther is the custome of one to be ouerthrowne with the contrarie custome of others Basill in hys 63. Epistle written to the Ministers of Neocaesaria recyteth the manners Basill and Customes aboute publike prayers and singing of Psalmes then vsed in the Churche and there playnely declareth what hys iudgemente is touchyng thys
peeces their Images sayth t us we make it Calui not now any scruple of conscience to reteine still those Churches which were polluted with Idols and to put them to better vse bycause that whiche is added to the lawe propter consequentiam as they terme it doth not bynde vs. I graunt that all those things which doe tende to the planting of superstition ought to be taken awaye so that by precise vrging of that vvhich is of it selfe indifferent vve be not in to much rigour Superstitious The place is worth the noting it fully ouerthroweth your groundes agaynst the apparell Saint Augustine in that sermon quoted in your margent speaketh against such as professing Christianitie did notwithstanding resort to the temples of the Paganes at their solemnities and feasts thinking it sufficient if they did in heart detest the Idols though in bodie they were present in their temples and at their feasts much like vnto those that thinke it sufficient to serue God in heart though in bodie they be present at the Masse and Idolatrous seruice That this is the meanyng of Augustine in that place it may euidently appeare to all suche as will peruse it vpon this Augustine bringeth in these wordes If you aske howe the Paganes may be ouercome wonne and illuminated howe they maye be brought to saluation forsake all their solemnitie let goe Aug. serm 6. de verbis domi in Matth. theyr toyes and then if they agree not vnto the truth let them be ashamed of theyr fewnesse It was in Saint Augustines time as it is in some places at this day where in some one citie there be Churches both for the Gospell and for the masse also it is not méete that suche as professe the Gospell shoulde resort to the Masse for besydes that they offende God in beyng presente at Idolatrous seruice they also giue occasion to the Papistes to thinke better of theyr Masse bycause they sée it frequented of suche as seeme to professe the Gospell and thereby also persuade them selues of a greater multitude that embraceth their Religion wherefore one way to conuert them is to absteine from their Churches that they may vnderstand both our misliking of theyr seruice and their owne paucitie also And that this is ment of by Augustine in that place it may also appeare by these wordes in the same Sermon The Paganes saye in their heartes why forsake we our Gods seeing the Christians them selues worship them as well as we And agayne Beholde against what true God thou doest offende whyles thou fallest downe before false Gods S. Augustine speaketh not one worde in all that sermon of ceremonies or any thing else taken from the gentils and by Christians conuerted to other vses muche lesse of any suche matter as we haue newe in question And therfore you do but abuse the Reader by reciting certaine words of S. Augustine without the circumstances which open the true meaning of them I praise your wit for saying that such things may be conuerted to priuate vses for denie that as S. Augustine plainely doth and I shall be bound vnto you that your doctrine shall haue the fewer fautors by 3. parts for surely many that condemne your opinions in heart for hope of priuate commoditie that might come vnto them by the dissolution of colledges Churches c. doe séeme very wel to like of them Wherfore teach them if you be wise that such things may be conuerted to their priuate vses whatsoeuer Augustine saith to the contrarie Augustine saith also that they maye be conuerted in honorem Dei vnto the honour of God What say you to that as for your denying that that vse is in distinguishing eyther the ministers from other men c. bicause it is but your bare denyall against al the proofes alleaged I will with affirming the contrarie passe it ouer Chap. 5. the fourth Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 58. Sect. 2. 3. Peter Martyr in the Epistle before mentioned touching this matter P. Martyr writeth on this sort But let vs consider your other argument that is to saye It is not lavvfull to vse these kinde of vestures bicause they vvere inuented by the Popes tyrannie In this poynt I doe not vvell perceiue hovve it may be affirmed for a suertie that vve can vse nothing that perteined to the Pope and is vsed in Temples of Idols conuer ted to the wor ship of God Poperie Truely vve must take good heede that vve bring not the Churche of Christ into suche bondage that it may not vse any thing that the Pope vsed It is very true that our forefathers toke the temples of Idols turned Reuenewes them into holy Churches vvhere Christ should be vvorshipped And they tooke also the salarie and reuenevves consecrated to the Idols of the gentils to their vvicked shevves and playes and to their holy votaries virgines and transposed it to finde the Ministers of the Church And yet all these things dyd not onely seruice vnto Antichrist but vnto the deuill yea the holy Ecclesiasticall Phrases of Poetes vvriters dyd not sticke to take the verses of Poetes vvhiche had bene dedicated to Muses and to other diuerse Gods and goddesses for to be played in playes and spoken in shevves to obteine the fauour of theyr Gods I say they did nothing sticke or feare to vse them vvhen it seemed to them conuenient imitating Paule the Apostle vvho stucke nothyng at all to rehearse for his purpose Menander Aratus and Epimenides and that he dyd in intreating the holy Scripture apply prophane vvordes to set forth Gods Religion VVe reade also hovve that vvine vvas consecrated Wine bread ▪ c. consecrated to Idols vnto Bacchus bread vnto Ceres vvater vnto Neptune oyle vnto Minerua letters vnto Mercurie song vnto the Muses and vnto Apollo and manie other things Tertullian rehearseth in his booke intituled de corona militis Christiani vvhere almost he entreateth thys selfe same argumente yet for all that vve sticke not to vse all these things freely asvvell in holye as in prophane vses although at one time or other before they had bene consecrated to Idols and to deuils Hetherto Peter Martyr T. C. Page 55. Sect. 5. To all these things that M. Martyr reckeneth vp of reuenewes and wages verses wyne breade oyle water which beyng consecrated vnto Idols are wel vsed Tertullian answereth in the same booke whereout a number of these are taken when he sayth that we oughte to admit a participation of those things which bryng eyther a necessitie or profit in the vse of them but we deny these things thus vsed are either necessarie or profitable And therefore in steade of temples tithes wine c. if you would haue matched the surplice well you shoulde haue sayde sensors tapers holy bread holy water and such like Io. Whitgifte Master Martyr vsed these examples to proue that the surplice and other apparell of Ministers nowe vsed for that is the matter he handleth
that a great parte of the people can not of knowledge tell whether he hath cursed them or blessed them whether he hath read in Latme or in Englishe all the whyche ryseth vpon the word s of ▪ the booke of seruice which are that the minister should stande in the accustomed place for therevpon the minister in saying Morning and Euening prayer sytteth in the Chauncel with hys backe to the people as thoughe he had some secret talke with God whych the people might not heare And herevpon it is likewise that after Morning prayer for saying another nūber of prayers he clymeth vp to the further end of the Chauncel runneth as farre from the people as the wall wyl let hym as though there were some variance betweene the people the minister or as though he were afrayde of some infection of plague in deede it renueth y e memorie of the Leuitical priesthoode which dyd withdrawe him selfe from the people into the place called the holyest place where he talked wyth God and offered for the sinns of the people Io. Whitgifte This nothing toucheth the order or substance of the booke and therefore no sufficient reason agaynst it if it were true But you héerein deale as you haue done in other matters that is corruptly and vntruely For you do not reporte the wordes of Corrupt dealing the booke concerning this matter as they be in déede and it is wonderfull and argueth great impadencie that you are not ashamed to reporte vntruely in so publike a cause The words of the booke be these The Morning and Euening prayer shall be vsed in the accustomed place of the Church Chappell or Chauncell excepte it shall be otherwise determined by the Ordinarie of the place And you leauing out all the rest say that the words of the booke of seruice are that the minister should stande in the accustomed place as though it bounde him of necessitie to the Chauncell which is nothing so But you Errours and isorder maynteyned by falsifying must be borne with your errours and disorders can not otherwise be maynteyned but by falsifying I thinke there are but fewe Churches in Englande where the Bi shops haue not taken a very good order for the place of prayer if any Bishop haue neglected it the fault is in the Bishop not in the booke But still I must desire the Reader to note the weightinesse of the reasons where by you goe about to deface the booke of common prayer Chap. 1. the. 19. Diuision T. C. Pag. 105. Sect. 2. Likewyse or marriage he commeth backe agayne into the body of the Churche and for baptisme vnto the Churche doore what comelynesse what decencie what edifying is thys Decencie I saye in running and trudging from place to place edifying in standing in that place and a ter that sorte where he can worst be hearde and vnderstanded S. Luke sheweth that in the 〈◊〉 Churche bothe the prayers and preachings and the whole exercise of religion was done otherwyse For he sheweth howe S. Peter sytting amongest the rest to the ende he myghte be the better heard rose and not that onely but that he stoode in the middest of the people that hys voyce mighte as muche as mighte be come indifferently to all theyr ear s and so standing bothe 〈◊〉 and preached Nowe if it be sayde for the Chapters and Letanie there is commaundement giuen th t they should be read in the body of the Church in deede it is true and thereof is easily perceyued thys disorder which is in saying the rest of the prayers partly in the hither end partly in y e urther end of the Chauncel for eeing that those are read in the body of the Church that the people may both heare vnderst nd what is read what should be the cause why the rest should be read further of Unlesse it be that eyther those thyngs are not to be hearde of them or at the least not so necessarie for them to be heard as the other whych are recited in the body or middest of the Churche And if it be further sayde that the booke leaueth that to the discretion of the Ordinarie and that he may reforme it if there be any thyng amisse then it is easily answered agayne that besides that it is agaynst reason that the commoditie and edifying of the Churche should depende vpon the pleasure of one man so that vpon hys eyther good or euill aduyse discretion it should be well or euill with the Church Besydes thys I sa we s e by experience of the disorders which ar in many Churches and Dioceses in thys behalfe howe that if it were lawfull to commit such authoritie vnto one man yet that it is not safe so to doe considering that they haue so euill q tten them selues in their charges and that in a matter the inconuenience whereof is so easily seene and so easily reformed there is notwithstanding so great and so generall an abuse Io. Whitgifte These be passing weyghtie arguments to ouerthrowe the booke and come from a Weighty reasons agaynst the booke déepe and profounde iudgemente If I shoulde vse the lyke you woulde wype them away with scoffing The booke appoynteth that the persons to be married shall come into the body of the Churche with their f iendes and neighbours there to be married and what faulte can you finde in this Is not the middest of the Churche the moste méete place for suche a matter The booke speaketh neyther of the comming backe of the minister nor his going forwarde these be but your iestes and yet muste he goe both backwarde and forwarde if he wil eyther come into the Church or go out of it For baptisme y e booke appoynteth no place but bicause there is no iust cause knowne why the fon e should be remoued therefore the minister dothe stande where that is placed whiche is somewhere in one place somewhere in another for I know diuers plac s where it is in the middest of the Churche some place where it is in the nethermost parte I knowe no place where it standeth at the Churche doore And therfore in saying that for baptisme the minister goeth to the Churche doore you doe but counterfeyte No man denieth but that bothe praying and preaching c. ought to be in that place where it may be best heard of all and therefore the booke dothe prudently leaue it to the discretion of the Bishop But the middest is not the fittest place for that purpose He that standeth in the middest of the Churche hathe some behynde him some before him and some of eche syde of him those whiche be behinde or on the sides can not so well heare as those that be before as experience teacheth in Sermons at the Spittle at the Crosse in Paules and other places Wherefore in my opinion that place in the Churche is moste fittest bothe for praying and preaching where the minister may haue the people before him except the
dothe not permit Deacons to minister the supper of the Lorde and that by way of allowing of the booke and here proueth that the Deacons dyd minister the sacrament of the Supper and that also as a thyng whyche he dothe allowe of But to let that passe I beseeche thee good Reader marke what a (*) An 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cauill ministring of the Supper thys is whiche Iustine maketh mention of and note wyth what conscience M. Doctor handleth this cause Iustine sayth that after the Scriptures are read and preached of and prayers made bread and wyne and water was broughte foorth and that the minister made prayers and thankesgiuing in the hearing of the people whych is that whyche the Euangelistes call the blessing and hath beene of later times called the consecration and after that the people were partakers of them that then thys beeing done the Deacons doe carry of that whych was left vnto those whych were not present for that corruption of sending the Communion vnto the houses was then in the Churche agaynst whych I haue before spoken now if to carry to a priuate house the bread and wyne whyche was blessed or set aparte by prayers and by obeying the institution of Christ by the minister be to minister the sacrament of the Supper than Serapions boy of whome mention is made by Eusebius ministred the sacrament For Serapion beeing sicke as Li. 6. ca. 43 I haue before shewed and sending hys boy to the minister for the sacrament receyued the same at the hands of his boy for that the minister beeing sicke could not come hym selfe So by M. Doctors reason Serapions boy ministred the sacrament Io. Whitgifte Where dothe M. Doctor saye that Deacons dyd minister the Lordes supper set downe his wordes Is there no ende of your falsifying and vntrue gathering Let the Reader compare the wordes that I haue recited out of Iustinus Martyr wyth your collection and then iudge of the honestie and sinceritie of your dealing The Admonition so speaketh of Deacons as thoughe their office in the primitiue Church had béene onely to gather and to distribute almes This I denye and proue that Deacons dyd then also preache baptise and distribute the bread and the wyne in the administration of the Lordes Supper I no where saye neyther doe I beléeue that they dyd at any tyme minister the Lordes Supper and you mighte haue vnderstoode that to distribute the bread and wyne to the people in the administration of the Supper is not to minister the Sacrament of the Supper For these Deacons of whome Iustinus Martyr speaketh yea and Serapions boy also dyd the one but they dyd not the other and therefore the spirite of cauilling hathe dryuen you to thys surmise The. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 129. Lin. 11. A man would not thinke that one that hath beene the Queenes Masesties publike professor of Many wordes bestowed in the confutation of that whyche is not affirmed diuinitie in Cambridge should not know to distinguish put a difference betweene ministring the sacrament helping to distribute the bread the cuppe of the sacrament And if M. Doctor could not learne this in bookes yet he mighte haue eyther seene it or at least heard tell of it in all reformed Churches almost where the Deacons do assist the minister in helping of him to distribute the cup and in some places also the bread for the quicker and speedier dispatche of the people beeing so many in number that if they should al receyue the bread the cup at the ministers hand they should not make an end in eyght hours which by that assistance may be finished in two whych is that that M. Caluine sayth For he sayth the deacons did reach the cup maketh no mention of the bread And if this be to minister the sacramēt then they that cut the loafe in peeces they that fetch y e wine for the supper they that poure it foorth from greater vessels into glasses cuppes or whosoeuer aydeth any thing in this action doe minister the sacrament than the whych thing there can be nothing more ridiculous Io. Whitgifte A man would not haue thought that one which hath ambitiously desired to be the Quéenes Maiesties diuinitie reader yet pretēdeth such puritie simplicitie would vpon any occasion muche lesse of none vse suche contēmptuous deriding spéeches towards one not so muche his inferiour But I passe all ouer quietly desiring only the Reader to take these such like notes of your mortification modestie playne dealing And marke I pray you howe many words he spendeth in this place to confute me which speake no otherwise than he would haue me to speake Surely it is very like that when you were answering this parte the olde griefe conceyued for missing the diuinitie Lecture came into your minde so much ouercame you that you coulde not vnderstande what I had sayd otherwise it coulde not haue béene possible that a man in his right wittes should so farre haue béene ouershot For marke my saying that you confute and you shall finde it to differ very little in wordes but in effecte nothing at all from that which you in confutation héereof affirme to be the vse in reformed Churches The. 6. diuision Admonition Now it is the first steppe to the ministerie nay rather a meere order of Priesthoode Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 119. Lin. 2. It may well be counted the first steppe to the ministerie as it hathe beene from the Apostles tyme and S. Paule ioyneth them togither 1. Tim. 3. T. C. Page 129. Sect. 1. In the ende M. Doctor to shut vp thys matter sayth that it is the first steppe to the ministery and so ioyned of S. Paule in the thyrd chapter and fyrst Epistle to Timothie But what a reason is thys to be a Deacon is the fyrst steppe to the ministery therfore the Deacon may preach minister the sacraments when as the contrary rather followeth For if it be a steppe to the ministery then it is not the ministery but dyffereth from it and so ought not to doe the thyngs that belong to the minister Io. Whitgifte You are but disposed to counterfeite I must giue you leaue so to doe be content But I trust it will turne smally to your credite The wordes of the Admonition be these Now it is the fyrst steppe to the ministery nay rather a meere order of Priesthoode The which words I answere in this maner It may well be counted the first step to the ministerie as it hath bin from the Apostles time and S. Paul ioyneth them togither 1. Tim. 3. Now let the Reader consider whether I vse this for an argument or no to proue that a Deacon may preach minister the sacraments If I should so haue concluded the argument might haue bin proued for preaching and baptising but séeing my Answere is direct to the words of the 〈◊〉 in an other matter it is too much for you thus
of other mens behauiour are for the most part negligent and forgetfull of their owne duties So that it is necessary for euery man to examine himselfe and not so necessary for one man to examine another But what I thinke of this kynde of examining by other I haue declared in my Answer to the Admonition Chap. 1. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Pag. 130. Sect. 2. Then he saith he is sure there is neither commaundement nor example in all the scripture In A place of scripture fondly applyed the second booke of the Chronicles he might haue read that the Leuites were there commaunded 2. Chro. 35 to prepare the people vnto the receiuing of the passouer in place whereof we haue the Lords supper Now examination being a part of the preparation it followeth that there is commaundement of examination Io. Whitgifte You bewray the weakenesse of your cause to much when you are constrayned to The Replyer applyeth a ceremoniall precept to the receiuing of the communion runne so farre for a precept to proue the examination of communicants to be commaunded and especially when you are compelled for want of other to bring out ceremoniall precepts long ago abrogated This boldnes of yours is so by custome confirmed that now without blushing it dare abuse any scripture yea euen touching the Ceremonies of the law to proue any deuise of your owne and why may not the Papistes as well vse the same for their auricular confession But what if that commaundement signify no such thing from whence then will His precept proueth not his purpose you fetch your proofe the wordes of Iosiah to the Leuites in the. 2. Chro. 35. vers 6. be these So kill the passouer and sanctify your selues and prepare your brethren that they may do according to the word of the Lord by the hand of Moses What one word of examining other is there in this commaundement These words Prepare your brethren Looke the marginal note in the Geneua Bible c. are thus expounded by learned interpreters Exhort your brethren to examin thēselues that they may be ready to eate the passouer according to the word of the Lorde by the hand of Moses And manifest it is that neyther the Priests nor the Leuites dyd did euer vse any suche kinde of examination before the eating of the Passouer as you woulde insinuate and therfore as yet you are vtterly destitute of a commaundemente Chap. 1. the. 4. Diuision T. C. Pag. 130. Sect. 2. And how holdeth (a) This is an ar ument of your owne framing this argument S. Paule commandeth that euery man should proue him self ergo there is no commaundement that the ministers shold proue and examine them so I may say that euery man is a spirituall king to gouerne himself therfore he may not be gouerned by others The authors of the Admonition do not meane that euery one should be examined as those whose vnderstanding in the Gospell is well knowne or whych doe examine themselues and so they interprete themselues in the. 108. page Io. Whitgifte Surely it holdeth as the moste parte of your argumentes do that is loosely for it is your reason it is not myne If I haue framed any such argument it will appeare in my Answere But this is your manner peuishly to peruert my wordes and therfore haue you concealed my booke least your Reader should espie you as he must needes do if he hath any iudgement Neyther doe I mislyke that there should be examination of the communicantes Examination of communicants 〈◊〉 disallowed as I haue said in my Answere but I mislyke this wrangling at the administratiō of the sacraments vsed in this church without cause neither would I haue this kinde of examination counted as necessarie seing it is no where cōmanded neither yet any example of it either in the Apostolicall or primitiue Church In what words or how do the Authors of the Admonition interpret themselues pag. 108 or how do they knowe that men do not examine themselues Chap. 1. the fifth Diuision Admonition The fifth Then they ministred with common (a) Act. 2. 46. Act. 20. 7. vsual bread now with water cakes brought in by Pope Alexander being in forme fashion and substance like their god of the altar Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 97. Sect. 2. Pag. 98. Sect. 1. 2. The place you alleage Act. 2. which is this And they continued Of bread vsed in the cōmumon dayly with one accord in the temple breaking bread at home did eate their meate together vvith gladnesse and singlenesse of heart maketh as much for your purpose as it maketh for the Papistes halfe Communion for they alleadge it to proue that the Supper may be ministred with bread only But learned interpreters especially M. Caluine denye this place to be mente of the ministration of the supper how soeuer it is vnderstanded it doth not necessarily proue that the Sacrament was then ministred in common and vsuall breade for there is no mention made of the kinde of breade Yf any thynke better of one kynde of breade than of an other in the ministration of the Sacramente it is theyr erroure and derogateth nothyng from the order of administration M. Caluin in his Institutions cap. 19. sect 72. touchyng this ma ter writeth on this sorte Caeterùm in manum accipiant fideles necne inter se diuidant an singuli quod sibi datum fuerit edant calicem in diaconi manu reponant an proximo tradant Caluins opinion of y e kind breade panis sit fermentatus an azymus vinum rubrum an album nihil refert haec indifferentia sunt in ecclesiae libertate posita But vvhether the faythfull take it in their handes or no vvhether they deuide it among them selues or euerye one eate that vvhiche is giuen vnto them vvhether they gyue the cuppe to the Deacon or deliuer it to hym that is nexte vvhether the breade be leauened or vnleuened the vvyne redde or vvhyte it makes no matter These be indifferente thyngs and put in the libertie of the Churche Alexander lyued Anno. III. and was a good and godlie Bishop it Alexanders institution is reported in some writers that he appoynted vnleauened breade to be vsed in the Euchariste bycause that Chryste hymselfe vsed the same accordyng to the lawe written Exod. 12. Deuteron 16. But that he broughte in wafer cakes or appoynted any certayne forme of breade you can not proue neyther dothe any credible authour wryte it Io. Whitgifte To all this there is not one word answered Chap. 1. the. 6. Diuision Answere to the Admonition Pag. 97. Sect. 2. Pag. 98. Sect. 1. The truth is that it skils not what kynde of bread is vsed leuened or vnleuened so it be bread although it were to be wished for the auoydyng of superstition that common and vsuall breade were vsed Usual bread and also that the forme were altered and the quantitie
I would haue him vnderstand that we hold that the body must be honestly and comely buried and that it is meete that for that cause some reasonable number of those which be the friends and neighbours about should accompany the corps to the place of buriall we hold it also lawfull to lament the dead and if the dignitie of the person so require we thinke it not vnlawfull to vse some way about the buriall whereby that may appeare but yet so that there be a measure kept both in the weeping in the charges considering that where as immoderate eyther weeping or pompe was neuer no not in the time of the law allowed now in the time of the gospell all that is not lawfull whiche was permitted in the time of the law For vnto the people of God vnder the law weeping was by so much more permitted vnto them than vnto vs by how muche they had not so cleare a reuelation and playne sight of the resurrection as we haue whiche was the cause also why it was lawful for them to vse more cost in the embaulming of the dead therby to nourish and to help their hope touching the resurrection whereof we haue a greater pledge by the resurrection of our sauioure Christ than they had Io. Whitgifte Al this is néedelesse but that you are disposed to stretch out your volume Chap. 6. the. 2. Diuision Admonition The eleuenth They appoint a prescrip kind of serui e to bury the dead and that whiche is the duty of euery christian they tie alo e to the mini ter whereby rayer for the dead is maintayned and partly gathered out of some of the prayers where they pray that we with this our brother and all other departed in the true faythe of thy holy name may haue our perfect consummation and blisse both in body and soule We say nothing of the threefould peale bycause that it is rather licensed by iniunction than commaunded in the booke nor of their straunge mourning by changing their garments which if it be not hypocraticall yet it is superstitious and heatcrush bycause it is vsed only of custome nor of buriall Sermons whiche are put in pl ce of rentalls whereout spring many abuses and therefore in the best reformed Churches are remoued As for the superstitions vsed both in countrey and citie for the place of buriall which way they must lie how they mu t be fecched to Church the Minister meeting them at Church st le with surplesse with a company of greedy Clearks that a Crosse white or blacke must be set vpon the dead corps that breade must be giuen to the poore and offrings in buriall time vsed and cakes sent abroade to friends bycause these are rather vsed of custome and superstition than by the authoritie of the booke Small commaundement will serue for the accomplishing of such things But greate charge will hardly bring the least good thing to passe and therefore all is let alone and the people as blind and as ignorant as euer they were God be mercifull vnto vs. Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 198. Sect. 1. It is true that we haue a prescript kind of seruice to bury the dead and that we appointe that office to the minister and what haue you in the whole scripture against this or whoeuer hath found fault with either of these two things I meane prescript seruice to bury the dead and the minister to execute that office but you alone or when was it euer heretofore reproued by any but euen by yourselues now of late T. C. Pag. 161. Lin. 5. Nowe for the things which the Admoni ion fyndeth fault with and thereof ingeth reason M. Doc er of his bare creditē without any reason or sc ipture or 〈◊〉 thing else 〈◊〉 them vnto 〈◊〉 and sayth they be good And this you shall marke to be M. Doctors simple shift through out his ooke that when he hath no coloure of scripture nor of reason no name nor title of Doctor then r make 〈◊〉 some thing ▪ he v rieth his affirmation by all the figures he c n as in saying 〈◊〉 that it is so and then in 〈◊〉 whether it be not so and after in asking whether there 〈◊〉 any 〈◊〉 man will thi ke hat it is not so s if he woulde make vs beleeue that he setteth vs diuers 〈◊〉 of mea es bycause he bringeth the same in diuers dishes For besides these reasons he hathe no reason either to pro e that it is meete to haue prescript forme of seruice for the dead or that the 〈◊〉 should be drawen to this charge Surely if the order be so good and conuenien it hathe met with a very barren trone whiche can saye nothing for it And although there be enough sayd by the Admonition yet bycause this bold and hardy peach is nough to leade the simpler a y and to make them thinke that M. Doctor hath a good cause therefore I will also say so thing of these rites of bur all Io. Whitgifte What one reason is there vsed in the Admonition what one word of scripture what authoriti of writer to improue a prescripte kinde of seruice to bury the dead and the minister to execute that office If there be any rehearse it if there be none why do you kéepe your old cu ome of speaking vntruly for as much therefore as they only say The dead b r d by the minister and with pra er in the 〈◊〉 Church it withoute proofe withoute reason without gr unde the thing being knowen so be good and godly and pra tised in the primitiue Church for we reade in Tertullian that the dead were wont to be buried by the ministers and with prayer and furthermore séeing it is established and allowed by the Church what shoulde I laboure by reason or authoritie to confirme that whiche cannot by any reason or authoritie be ouerthrowen Tertul. de Anima Wheresore I will only answer such bare assertions as M. Zuinglius answered An order receyued in the Church needeth no proof vntill by reason it be ouerthrowen Zuinglius ad ▪ Balt a. resp vpon the like occasiō one Balthasar an Anabaptist VVhilest you require scripture and reason you obtrude vnto other that whiche you oughte to performe your selues for you denie that this ought to be so shew therefore some expresse testimonie out of the scripture to confirme your opinion To this effect spea eth Zuinglius to Balthasar who without reason or scripture alleadged to the contrary required of Zuinglius the proofe of those thinges whiche without controle ent of any but Heretikes had continued in the Churche of long time and then also allowed in the time of the Gospell Euen so the receiued order established by this Church carieth with it authoritie and credite sufficient and néedeth not to be further by reason confirmed except it be first by reason ouerthrowen which bycause it is not per ourmed by the Admonition my affirmation is sufficient
had no suche prescript forme Be The replyer had rather conforme him selfe to the Iewes than o this church it so but will you driue vs to conforme our selues to the Iewes ceremonies do you thinke that touching the dead or being at burialls will now make the minister vncleane I vnderstand not to what end you should alleadge any such proofes vnlesse you would haue vs to retourne againe to Iudaisme This kind of reasoning from the ceremoniall law is not only of no force but also very dangerous as though Christians were bound to behaue themselues according to that law Surely it should séeme that you could rather consent to the bringing in of Iudaisme than to the Christian orders now appointed in the Church There might be and so there was a prescripte forme of burying the dead among the Iewes although the Priest was absent therfore if this kinde of reasoning from the examples of the Iewes were of any force yet cannot this your argument proue that there ought to be no prescripte forme to bury the dead In the fourth place you reason thus A new charge may not belayd vpon the minister nor The duetie of ministers not hindred by burying the dead he maye not be taken from his necessary duties of feeding and gouerning his flocke c. but by burying the dead a new charge is layd vpon him and he is taken from his necessary duties c. therefore the minister may not bury the dead Your Minor is false for it is no new charge laide vpon him is it not his duty to reade the scriptures to gyue thanks to pray and to exhort in the publike congregation doth he not féede when he so doth nay when is there a more apt time of féeding will you giue him time to be Pa. 49. Se. vlt absent from his flocke vpon his owne businesse as before you haue done and shal he haue no time to bury their dead Surely I cannot conceiue how this function of burying the dead should one iote hinder the minister f ō any one part of his dutie And I thinke these reasons of yours too weake to allure any man into your opinion or to plucke downe any thing that is already builded If you séeke for alteration you must vse pro ound and inuincible proofes for no wise man will be moued to a change without vrgent and especiall cause I passe ouer this and such like matters the more lightly bycause I take the lightnesse of your arguments to be such as of themselues they be a sufficient discredite to your cause and adde with such a be learned and not led by affection a greater strength and confirmation both to the doctrine and also to the gouernment of this Church of England Chap. 6. the. 4. Diuision Ansvver to the Admonition Page 199. Sect. 4. The threefolde peale mourning apparell buriall sermons the place of buriall which way they must lye how they must be fetched to the Church a crosse white or blacke set vpon the dead corps bread giuen to the poore offerings in buriall time vsed cakes sent abroade to friends you confesse not to be conteined within the booke and so you ease me of some laboure But yet of mourning apparell and auriall Of mourning pparell sermons giue me leaue to speake a little It is no good reason to say that bycause mourning apparell is only vsed of custome therefore it is superstitious and heathenishe many thinges be vsed of custome wh ch be neyther superstitious nor heathenish as to receiue the communion before dinner to celebrate the Lords day on the Sunday not on the Saterday to preach in pulpits and such like Mourning Mourning apparell auncient apparell is of greate antiquitie as you knowe and I thinke it is no matter of religion but of ciuilitie and order If any man put religion in it then no doubt it is superstitious T. C. Pag. 161. Sect. 2. For the mourning apparell the Admonition (*) Vntruth 〈◊〉 their word be playne sayth not simply it is euill bycause it is done of custome but proueth that it is hypocriticall oftentimes for that it proceedeth not from any sadnesse of mind whiche it dothe pretende but worne only of ustome there being vnder a mourning gowne oftentimes a merry hart And considering that where there is sorrow indeede for the dead there it is very hard for a man to keepe a measure that he do not lament too much we ought not to vse these meanes whereby we might be further prouoked to sorrow and so go a great way beyond the measure which the Apostle appointeth in mourning no more than it was well done of the Iewes in the Gospell to prouoke weeping and sorrow for their dead by some dolefull noyse or 1. Thes. 4. Math. 9. Iohn 11. sound of instrument or then it was lawfull for Mary Lazarus sister to go to hir brothers graue thereby to set the pri t of hir sorrow deeper in hir mind Seing therefore if there be no sorrow it is hypocriticall to pretend it and i there be ▪ it is very dangerous to prouoke it or to carry the notes of remembrance of it it appeareth that this vse of mourning apparell were much better layd away than kept And here M. Doctor th eapes alittle kindnesse of the authours of the Admonition and Cyp. 4. sermone de mortalitate Augus li. 2. de consolat mortuorum saith that they know it is very anncient whome before he denyeth to haue any knowledge of antiquitie Indeede it is very auncient but M. Doctor is afrayd to shew the a ciencie of it for Cyprian and Augustine inueigh vnhemently against it condemning it as vnlawfull and vndecent Io. Whitgifte The words of the Admonitiō be these Nor of their strange mourning by changing their garments which if it be not hypocriticall yet is it superstitious and heathenish bycause it is vsed only of custome Let the Reader now iudge whether the Admonition dothe conclude this apparell to be heathenish and superstitious only bycause it is vsed of custome or no. Truly in my simple iudgement their words be playner than that they can be excused Your reason of Hypocrisie is no more sufficient to condemne mourning apparell than it is to condemne any other ciuill and decent o der By the like reason I might improue your wearing of a turky gowne and a hat bycause that kind of apparel being a token of such persons as mislike the gowne and the square cap and pretende precisenesse aboue the rest is notwithstanding commonly worne of such as in other places than in London both weare and like the other and be precise neither in lyfe nor doctrine And what is it that I annot disproue if this be a sufficient argument to say some mē do abuse it or some men do hypocritically vse it Ergo it is not to be vsed Your other reason that it prouoketh more seruice for the dead than is conuenient if it were true that it so did