concerning this matter in the 1. booke of Genesis ad literam and 9. chapter S. But these things are referred to the Sunne when it is sayd that the Lord created all thing by his woord so that Christe is ment by the woorde for by him all thinges were made Coloss the 1. chapter and 16. verse M. I will not much contende herein so that they will graunt mee that as the Sunne is called the woorde so likewise that woorde was a signe and token of his presence power and person and also of his woorking Whiche doeth likewise distinguishe the Father from the Sunne S. Why did God speake commaund them to be made M. Hee commaunded to the intent that the thinges that were afterward made might be knowne not to haue bin made by the Water or Earth out of whiche they came or the heauens or to bee short by the vertue or power of any creature ▪ but by the commaundement of the Lord onely and the power of his woord Wherfore let vs giue prayse vnto hym for all thinges that are created And he spake not that hee could not haue fourmed all thinges by the vertue and decree of his alonely will who hadde already made Heauen and Earth without speaking of any word but when as it pleased God to reueale manifest himself outwardly by his works hee vsed those meanes wherby hee willeth and commaundeth himselfe to bee most certeinly knowne to wit his woorde voice The summe and scope of this word is Christ y euerlasting Sūne of y euerlastīg father who was afterward manifested in y flesh therfore hereof they do rightly gather y Christ the Sunne of God did woorke in the creation of the world For ther is a threefold meane booke wherby God reuealeth himself vnto vs to wit the booke of creatures y boke of scripture the boke of life That which is called y booke of scripture is far more sure true and plentifull thā the other two therfore God doth especially propose and commende the same vnto vs And finally to confirme myne opinion I alledge that whiche Ireneus sayeth That God created all thyng with his word that is to saye with his voice in his seconde booke and 5. chapter and that also whiche is written by Tertullian in his 4. booke againste the Marciomtes in these woordes Is it altogether incredible how the power of the creatour should procure the remedie of one transgression with his woord who by his word hath brought foorth so great a mole of the world In whiche saiyng doubtlesse the woord is taken for the voice and in the 1. chapter and 3. verse of the Epistle too the Hebrues the Scripture vseth the woord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The. xxxv Chapter Of the light which was vsed at the creation of the world S. WHat say you is secondly to be obserued and considered of in declaring the creation M. The light For God made that as a necessarie thyng for the creatyng of his other woorkes S. Whyso M. Both that by appliyng as it were a Candle or other light that confused mole might bee seen and diuided into meete partes and members and also bicause it was necessarie that some firie qualitie should bee applied vnto that moyste matter too warme it and to make it frutefull For all thinges that are in this inferiour world are engendred by a firie heate as it were by a warme and woorking father And therefore that first light was created to bee the continuall and common Nurse and moother and fountaine of the externall and accidentall liuely heate whiche God prepared as an instrument to bring foorth all other things withall Not that God was not able to see all things that were in the greate mole who at this present beholdeth the most secret thinges and obscurest darkenesse and from whom there is nothing hid not also that he needed that kind of meane who of himself is Almightie but to the intent we might vnderstand how great wisedome it was that created these visible things and what second causes of them hee appointed first which now wee doe behold to woorke in them And finally how in the making of these visible thinges hee vsed moste conueniently other thinges of the same kinde which at this day are the naturall and instrumentall and chief and principall causes of the engendryng of all thinges For there are three thinges of them too wit moist earth and that shining bright and liuely heate which is appliable and conuenient for all thinges in that all thinges haue that naturall heate in them This is therefore the second thing whiche I suppose needfull to bee considered in the meanes and maner of creating the world ¶ The. xxxvi Chapter That God made this worlde without any payne or wearisomenesse vnto him S. WHat do you thirdly consider M. This forsooth that GOD framed this so greate and huge a Mole of the worlde without anye payne or wearysomnesse at all that the Epicures neede not to feare leaste wee ascribe any greife and paine vnto God in that men are not able to finishe the least woorke that they haue to doe without some trauayle and wearinesse of bodye And therefore it plainely appeareth hereby howe greate the omnipotencie of God is aboue the strēgth of man This which I say is cōfirmed by Isay in the 40. chapt and 28. verse and likewise by S. Augustine in hys 4. booke de Genesi ad Literam and 8. chapter In somuch that it is sayde that all thinges that were created were suddeinly brought foorthe and appeared as it were in the twinckling of an eye Psalme 33. 9. chap. and Esdras the 4. booke the 6. chapter and 48. verse for nothing coulde withstande the pleasure and cōmaundement of God. The xxxvii Chapter The worlde was created by partes and not all at once S. WHat thinke you fourthly to bee obserued M. That this whole worlde was made by partes and in six dayes as Moses teacheth in the 1. chapter of Genesis as it appeareth also in the 4. booke of Esdras the 44. Chapter and the nexte folowinge and not made altogither at one instante And to the entente it may bee the better borne in memorie what was made vppon euery daye I my selfe made these verses folowing The first day made both heauen and earth pleasant glittring light The seconde streached out the space beetweene the waters quite ▪ The thirde diuided Sea from Lande and clad the earth with greene The fourth created Sunne Moone starres that bright do sheene The fifth brought foorth all feathered soules and fishes of the lake The sixt made Cattell in the fieldes then man the Lorde did make And after worke the seauenth to rest himselfe hee did betake S. But why did not god create al things togither in one day seeing hee is almightie M. Bicause hee is almightie hee needed not time for the establishing of this worlde as Sainct Ambrose saith in his 39. Epistle neither came it to passe
and small were first created to the ende that the force of things might bee preserued in a certaine temperament by these contraries This is written in Ecclesiasticus the 42. chapter and 25. verse and the 33. Chapter 15. verse Whiche also S. Augustine in his 2. booke de Ciuitate Dei and 18 chapter and Irenaeus in his 2. booke and 43. chapter doe followe M. It is true whiche you say For God made not althinges at the firste of one qualitie colour and greatnes neither of one kind and nature But hee made some high some lowe some moyst some drie some warme some cold the day to bee one thing and the night another Yet God made nothing that was eeuill But why hee created them in suche varietie this is the cause both for that the power and wisedome of God is thereby more apparant and also the thinges themselues by this repugnancie of contrarie vertues and natures and mitigacion of them may bee the more easely preserued For what maner state of thinges would there haue bin if all thinges had bin hoat what numnesse if all thinges had bin cold what miserie if all wayes there had bin darknes what wearisomnesse if it had alwaies bin daye And therefore when God had created the natures of this worlde and of the thinges conteined therein hee thought it conuenient to refresh and ease them with change and course because they were bodies or apperteinyng to bodies and likewise to nourishe them with a certein mutuall knot and temperament bicause they were diuerse partes of one whole thyng hee ingraffed also contrarie qualities in them that the one should bee a let bridle and temperament to the other And to bee short to the intent there should bee chaunge and alteration in these thinges that there might bee some differēce plainly perceiued beetweene the essence of them and of the angels also of God hymself who needeth no sutch meanes for his preseruation Euen so likewise a well gouerned citie consisteth of sundry orders and of diuerse fortes of men ritche poore faire foule Subiectes Magistrates young olde Husbandmen Souldiours who are of diuerse states and vnlike callinges and many tymes also of contrarie Notwithstanding they bee necessarie for the preseruation of the mutuall safetie of the whole citie wherby it beecummeth the more beautifull the more plentifull and conuenient for the vse of this life And therfore I will confirme this opinion with the moste excellent testimonie of Tertullian who in the 45. chapter of his Apologeticum writeth thus which reason made the vniuersalitie out of diuersitie that all thinges might appeare togither from many substances into an vnitie out of voyd and sound out of liuyng and vnliuyng out of comprehensible and incomprehensible out of light and darknes and out of life and death Neither doe wee notwithstanding fauour the errour of the Manichees who hold opinion that at the beeginning there were twoo Giauntes whiche afflicted mutually one another one of the light and another of darknes There is one and the same and onely God who made all thinges and moste wisely instituted this contrarietie for the preseruation of the whole woorke S. But this varietie of things seemeth to bring in great discord when it had bin more meete that this worlde beeing as it were a certein whole thing should haue bin builded and compacted of partes freindly and louingly agreeing one with another Which thing this contrarietie among creatures doth seeme very mutch to withstande M. You gather not well For this dissimulitude amonge thinges and varietie of contrarie qualities and properties bringeth in no discorde but rather causeth great concorde and agreement Like as in mans bodie the diuersitie of the partes members and theyr force action moouinge place and office which many times are contrarie declareth that there is greate agreement amonge the members and is also necessarie for the life gouerment and defence of the whole body The like truely is to bee seene in the world for it is one bodie and conteined within one compasse And why the discorde of thinges so muth disagreeing is so friendly and agreeinge and so consenting vnto it selfe and also firme and durable the great and incomprehēsible wisedom of almighty God is the cause who hath contempered all those thinges excellently one with another as they ought to bee and hath made them of apt and conuenient weight number and measure both in respect of themselues and in comparison also of other thinges as it is written in the booke of Wisdom the 11. chapter and 21. verse ▪ and S. Augustine afterwarde also declareth the same in his 4. booke de Genesi ad Literam But what weight number and measure this is or what is the proportiō of their mingling togither by reason of whiche this world is so agreeing and meete one parte with another and of all among themselues although the Philosophers haue by disputation curiously vexed themselues herein and yet neither founde it out neither declared it God knoweth and hee himselfe onely The. xlv Chapter In what sense it is sayd that God rested after the creation of the world S. THere remaineth yet one thing whiche I would demaund M. What is that S. Whether GOD haue ceassed altogither to create any thing since the time y hee made an ende of the world seeing hee seemeth dayly to create mens soules out of nothing and hee yet woorketh still as Christe teacheth vs in the 5. chapter and 17. verse of S. Iohn M. An easie matter to aunswere For God is saide to ceasse onely in respect of this worlde and the woorke which then hee had vndertaken to doe that is to say in comparison of an other as S. Augustine answereth in his 4. booke de Genesi ad Literam And not altogether absolutely as although God neither gouerned nowe this world which he made neither were able to make any new thing more seeing there is nothyng made or doone now but by his woorking Whose most louing tender prouidence hath alwaies gouerned doeth now gouerne whatsoeuer he hath created Whose infinite power woorketh euery thing in euery thing as S. Paule writeth to the Ephesians the 1. chapter and 23. verse Finally whose strength and vertue are neither impaired by weakenes through processe of time wherby they are lesse able euery day to create many things neither are they beecome slacker or slower in woorkinge Therefore the Lorde yet euery daye createth many newe thinges to wit the soules of men Howbeeit all that his purposed woorke and the fulnesse and bewtie of this worlde hee made moste perfectly and finished most absolutely in euery poinct part in the space of those sixe dayes rested the seauenth day God sanctified sayth S. Augustine no day of hys woorke but onely the day of his rest that it might bee vnderstoode that God is more blessed than his woorkes For hee was delighted with none of his woorkes so much as with himselfe So hee sanctified the daye of his rest and
principles and causes of their beeyng and compoundyng And likewise that is the Generall part of naturall Philosophie which sheweth vs the generall maner and order of preseruyng and increasyng of all thynges beecause it deliuereth vnto vs all thynges in generall And these poinctes for the more part are comprehended in the first chapiter of Genesis S. Whiche is then the Particulare part M. That whiche diligently setteth doune the peculiare natures operations properties and effectes of euery kinde which are seuerally distinguished in these created and visible thynges as for example What is the Nature of a Man what of an Horse what of euery kinde of liuyng Creature with the operations also of Trees and Hearbes These thynges are partly conteined in the rules of Phisick and partly also in those treatises whiche by the Auctours thereof are intitled by the names of Histories of liuyng thynges and of Plantes and suche like certaine partes whereof and sparkes are founde shinyng heere and there dispersed in holie Scripture as it were beautifull precious stones Howbeit the whole historie general discourse of these thinges is not conteined in the Scripture since that Salomons Bookes whiche were written copiously of the Nature of all thynges are through the negligence of men perished ¶ The seconde Chapiter Whether Naturall Philosophie bee meete for a Christian S. IS there any profite in Naturall Philosophie M. Yea manifolde But that I may not run ouer them all for thei are almoste infinite I wil alledge fiue onely The first is that thereby wee knowe God not onely to bee the Creator of all thinges but also to bee euerlasting omnipotent and mercifull c. The seconde that by it wee learne the thynges that are created with their operations and natures The third for that therein wee see ourselues and perceiue what wee are of what thynges and partes wee consist and eche part of ours that is to saie what maner of thing our Soule is and what likewise is the state and condition of our bodie which all men do confesse to bee the best profitabliest moste excellēt knowledge of all other The iiii that wonderyng at in our myndes and beholdyng with our eyes these woorkes of God so greate so many so wonderfull beyng thervnto holpē by none other meanes than by this Arte wee are with greate zeale and affection stirred vp to set foorth the won̄derfull praises of God and to giue him thankes Whiche thing happened also vnto Galene yea although he were a prophane Philosopher that after hee had described the Nature of one of Gods woorkes that is to saie of Man and the partes of his bodie hee was enforced yea almoste against his will to syng an Himne to god Heerehence it commeth that suche multitude of hymnes so many Epodes and songes of praise so many Psalmes are written and celebrated The v. that wee vnderstandyng these thinges maie easily and plainly expounde and freely enter into many places of holie Scripture whiche vnto suche as bee ignorante of these matters are not onely obscure but also cannot possibly bee attained vnto or by any meanes vnderstoode Wherefore S. Augustine writeth that Naturall Philosophie is verie profitable and necessarie for a christen diuine What shall I speake of the singulare pleasure whiche this knowledge bringeth vnto the minde of the great cōmodities whiche it ministreth vnto the life of man S. How doe you prooue these thinges to bee true M. Specially out of these places of holie scripture The whole 104 Psalme The 136. and 145. Psalme 10. verse The 147. and 148. Psalmes Iob the 12. chapiter and verse 8. 9. 10. and the 36. Chapiter and 24. 25. 26. verses The 14. Chapiter of the Actes and 17. verse The first Chapiter to the Romanes and 20. verse Unto these moreouer maie bee added the 7. Chapiter of the booke of Wisedome and 9. verse with the nexte followyng and likewise the 13. Chapiter and 1. verse and the nexte followyng Likewise the holie Fathers S. Basill S. Chrisostome S. Ambrose in their Exameron or woorke of sixe daies doc teache the same thyng And moreouer the holie and absolutely learned father S. Augustine in his booke of christian doctrine and in the viii booke of Gene. vpon the letter the viii chapiter S. But there be certain obiections made declaryng that the knowledge of Naturall Philosophie is not onely vnprofitable but also vnwoorthie for a christian yea that it is hurtfull and dangerous for hym M. Yea truely And although many men haue gathered sundrie yet all of thē maie bee referred specially vnto twoo kindes of argumentes whiche are alledged againste the knowledge of these thynges whereof the firste is framed ab auctoritate from auctoritie The second a ratione turpi from reason and vnseemelinesse or from a moste hurtfull consequent S. Declare them M. First thei gather sundrie sentences partly out of the Scriptures and partly out of the Ecclesiasticall Fathers out of whiche afterwarde thei frame their reasons and make their conclusions S. Whiche bee thei M. Out of holie scripture this is specially alledged which is written in the Booke of Ecclesiastes or of the Preacher the 1. Chapiter and 15. verse in these woordes I set my harte to seeke and to finde out with wisedome whatsoeuer thyng is doone vnder heauen This euill exercise hath GOD giuen to the Sonnes of men to occupie them selues therein Unto whiche thei ioyne that saiyng of S. Paule the 1. to the Corinthians the 1. Chapiter and 20. verse God hath made foolishe the wisedome of this worlde with other suche places like vnto these whiche maie easely bee answered S. How I praie you M. Forsoothe that that in the Booke of the Preacher is not spoken absolutely but onely in comparison of the true woorshippyng of god Neither doeth Salomon cōdemne or disprooue the true knowledge of the nature of thinges whiche GOD gaue vnto hym as a greate benefite of all other moste surpassyng for then should hee haue bin of all men the moste vnthankfullest man to God and in respecte whereof hee was then greatly esteemed of by the Queene of Saba and other Princes neere vnto hym Howbeeit this knowledge of Naturall Philosophie if it bee compared with true Godlinesse if with faithe if with the true feare of GOD if with inwarde regeneration of the mynde if with the knowledge of euerlastyng life and saluation surely in comparison of these thynges it is but a light busiyng of the minde vnfruitfull rather weariyng vs then relieuyng or comfortyng our consciences For it bryngeth not the true felicitie as faithe to Godwardes doeth although a manne consume his whole life in it and as it were tyre his minde aboute it And as touchyng the place of S. Paule I see not how it oppugneth the knowledge of Naturall Philosophie seeyng S. Paule condemneth the wisedome of the worlde not the wisedome concernyng the worlde and thynges created But that is called the wisedome of the world whiche is wholy ruled by the counsell and iudgement of the
truliest talke and dispute in his owne Art and that hee is rather to bee beleeued therin than any other But what woorkmans woorkmanship thincke you is thys worlde Is it any others than Gods onely so that wee ought to beleeue none rather than him who in hys woorde teacheth vs the maner and order of framinge his woorke that is to saye the worlde To bee shorte who knoweth seeth and vnderstandeth more truely the causes of all things their properties effectes the maner of their beeing the times when first they began then hee who is the maker of them all and the perpetuall gouernour of them all who beeing GOD and sence hee him selfe telleth these thinges what man will at anye time bee so mad but to thinke that hee is rather to bee harkened vnto in thys respect and all other writers to bee neglected Truely wee as also all other Philosophers howsoeuer surpassing in wit abounding in leasure what soeuer diligence they employed in study yet could neuer neither wee nor they attayne vnto certaine obscure slender sparkes of naturall Philosophie And whatsoeuer we define coÌ„cerning these matters without the woorde of God it is so vncerteine doubtfull variable and contrarie to it selfe and many times so contrarie to the trueth that in the ende wee are ashamed that wee either learned so or taught so which may appeare to be true if it wer but only out of Plutarchus booke De Placitis Philosophorum Of the opinions of Philosophers whereas that excellent learned man and great Philosopher sheweth that neuer two of them agreed in the knowledge of the things that are created S. Can you confirme the trueth of your opinion by the auchoritie of Gods woord to wit that this knowledge may well and safely bee learned out of the holy scriptures M. Yeas verily S. Recite them I pray you M. The first testimonie is that which is writen euidently in the epistle to the Hebrues in these woords Through Faith wee vnderstande that the worlde was made by the woorde of God. Wherefore wee vnderstande these thinges by Faith. If by Faith then by the holy scripture for ther can bee no faith without the scripture And therfore wee must certainely conclude that the true and certeine knowledge concerninge these matters is declared vnto vs by the holy scripture The seconde aucthoritie is the 1. chapter of Genesis For Moses who at the commaundement and appointment of God wrot that historie of all other most excellent and wounderfull of the beginninge of the worlde and creation of all thinges is either a vaine fellowe or a lier if the knowledge of naturall Philosophie be not conteined in the holy Scripture For what other thing doth hee in that booke than briefly howbeit truely and orderly set downe the originall of thinges and theyr vertues natures and effectes that is to say Naturall Philosophie The thyrde is a place in the Prouerbes the viii Chapiter and the 20. verse the nexte folowinge where it is saied that all thinges were created by the wysdome of God and afterwarde as they were created so are they preserued The fourth aucthoritie is alleaged out of the 42. Chapiter and 17. verse of Ecclesiast This wisdome hath God giuen to his Sainctes saith hee that they might recoumpt all his miracles and workes and search them all yea hell it selfe c. wherevnto wee may adde that which is written in the vii chapiter of the booke of VVisedom the 22. verse and the next folowing Finally let vs heare the moste holye Martyr of God and good Father Irenaeus who in his seconde booke and 2. Chapter saithe thus To whom therefore shall wee giue more credit concerning the framing of the worlde to those that wee spake of beefore so iangling in folly and inconstancie or to the Disciples of the Lorde and the seruant and Prophet of God Moses who first reuealed the creation of the worlde The selfe same thing S. Basell and S. Ambrose and S. Chrisostome in the prefaces of their Exameron or Six dayes woorke doe with one consent and plainely confirme so that whoso shall deney that the knowledge of Naturall Philosophie may not truely and commodâ—ously bee learned out of holy scripture gainsaith the sacred woorde of GOD and openly repugneth against the learned Fathers In conclusioÌ„ hearken to â—ertullian who in the 46. chapter of hys Apologet doth truely and plainly pronounce that the sacred woorde of God which is most auncient was as it were the treasurie and stoarehouse vnto all later wisdom From thence saith hee the Philosophers haue quenched the thirst of their wits But as men that were ouer riotous in the study onely of glorie and eloquence if they found any thyng in holy scripture when they had digested it according to the purpose of their curiositie they conuerted it to their owne woorkes S. Doe they that are of the contrarie opinion bring nothing against thys M. Yeas two argumentes especially S. What bee they M. This is the first That the ende of euery art ought to bee distinguished and that Naturall Philosophie is one thing and Diuinitie another whereof thys last is conteined in holie write but the other is not so S. Is that consequent and assertion true M. No verily S. Howe so M. For that although they gather that truly that artes ought to bee distinguished and that Diuinitie which conteineth the promises of euerlastinge lyfe teaching also the waye thervnto and the causes thereof ought to bee separated from Naturall Philosophie whiche entreateth of the framinge of this visible worlde and the natures of all thinges in the same yet doe they not say truely in denyinge that the order of the creation of this world the sundrie kindes of things their natures manifold sortes are taught distinguished and orderly set downe in holy Scripture All these thinges are copiously declared there which are the peculiar subiect matter of the Art of Natural Philosophie Wherefore Naturall Philosophie is comprehended in holy scripture The same also you may learne by another example are not Diuinitie and the morall parte of Philosophie both of them as they differ in kinde discerned in the holy scriptures And yet who is so rasbe and folishe that he dare deny that the Ethike or moral Philosophie yea and that most truly and generally is deliuered vnto vs in holie scripture wherefore the distinct endes of Artes and treatises are no impediment but that the Generall Naturall Philosophie and also Diuinitie are conteined in the holy Scriptures forsomuch as Natural Philosophic is as it were a parte of Diuinitie and an handmaideÌ„ vnto the same For it is a notable meane to knowe God by which thing also S Ambrose confesseth with mee What shall I saye more The Heathen Philosophers them selues when they dispute of the worlde and the creation of the partes therof and when they intreat of the nature of thinges they saye that thei play the Diuines and enter into discourse of Diuinitie as Aristotle speaketh in his booke de mundo of
the worlde so that it is no maruaile that wee haue iudged that the true and Christian Diuinitie is partly busied also in matter of Naturall Philosophie and the settinge foorth thereof and that for that cause also the holie Scripture is in part occupied in settinge foorth of these things forasmuch as this knowledge also maketh to the aduauncement of gods glory For in these visible thinges the power wisdome and eternitie of God is to bee seene liuely S. What is the other argument of theirs that are of the contrarie opinion M. This forsooth that those thynges which Moses hath written are most plainely and simply set downe and in such kinde of stile which is fitted to our capacitie and applied to the weakenesse of mans sence and not truely and exactly expressed according to the truth of thinges and finally that Moses doeth neither throughly neither subtily search out or set downe the thinges themselues and their natures wherefore they conclude that the true distinct and perfect knowledge of the naturall part is other whence to bee drawne and learned S. What answere you vnto these thinges M. Uerily I confesse that these matters concerning Naturall Philosophie are not gloriously in a filed style set foorth by Moses although hee were the beste learned man that euer lyued but rather in a bare and simple kinde of writinge striped out of all ornament as it were out of apparrell wherby that which hee writeth may the more easily bee vnderstood But as it is to bee graunted that hee spake simply so can it not bee prooued that hee spake or wrote lyingly falsely and ignorantly of those thinges It is one thing therfore to acknowledg that Moses stile is bare simple which kinde of vtterauÌ„ce is meet for the truth and another thing to say that hee is a false man and a lyar which no man can affirme but whoso is of a corrupt conscience Wherfore simply but truely barely but rightly commonly but purely doth hee deliuer vnto vs those thinges which hee writeth concerning the worlde of the principall partes therof of the causes and effectes of thinges to bee beleeued holden and taughte among menne Uerily I confesse that Moses applyed himselfe to the capacitie of our seÌ„ses Howbeit I deney that which they affirme that therfore hee did not roue at the trueth of the matter or had not regarde vnto it for it was his purpose to set downe those things in wrâ—tinge easily barely and truely S. But some are of opinion that all those things which hee wrote in the first chapter of Genesis are to bee interpreted allegorically So neither do they think that those six dayes are the space of time neither that the woman in deede was made of Adams ribbe neither that all the residue are so to bee taken as Moses words doe pretende and sownde Which opinion if it be true what shall bee sure or certeine in all that whole chapter and such like writinges of other Prophetes as apperteining to the knowledge of Naturall Philosophie or that maye teache vs the same M. You saye well Indeede some haue benne of that opinion which notwithstanding S. Augustine confuteth in his 1. booke in the Proheme also in the 8. booke and 2. chapter de Genesiad Literam of Genesis vpon the letter S. Peter likewyse in the 3. chapter and 5. verse of hys seconde Epistle and in the epistle to the Hebrues the 11. chapter and 3. verse doth openly impungne this errour of the Allegorists affirminge that those things which Moses hath reported concerning the creation of the worlde are spoken naturally and plainly and not allegorically or figuratiuely S. And what at the length doe you conclude of all these thinges which you haue recited M. That forsooth which S. Augustine concludeth in hys 5. booke and 8. chapter of Genesis That those things which Moses wrot are true although they can be established by no other reasons For if a man will dispute to proue that these thinges are false or hee himselfe can say no certentie concerning the estate and gouerment of creatures or if hee saye not true will hee suppose these thinges to bee false in that hee himselfe vnderstandeth them not Who will beleeue that Aristotle or Plato did knowe any thinge concerninge the creation of the worlde and the causes of thinges whereof Moses was ignorant who first receiued the thinges which he wrote by most secret reuelation from god Secondly who was wel learned in all liberall artes specially in the knowledge of Naturall Philosophie and Phisick which two artes were at that tyme specially had in price amonge the Aegyptians as it appeareth in the Scripture Actes the 7. chap. and 22. verse And to conclude forasmuch as those that were the chiefest Philosophers amonge the Grecians traueyled into Aegypt to the intent to learne Naturall Philosophie as histories doe rport of Plato and Pithageras And most certeine it is as Diogenes Laertius writeth in hys first booke de vitis Philosophorum of the lyues of the Philosophers that all that parte of Philosophie whiche intreateth of the nature of thinges was deriued to the Grecians froÌ„ strange nations and from the Syrians that is to saie from the Jewes Shal we say theÌ„ against the assured faith of the scripture that any one of the cheifest Philosophers to wit Plato or Aristotle whiche were heathen men were called by GOD to counsell when hee went to framinge and creatinge of the worlde that they shoulde knowe more than Moses the seruaunt of GOD whom God himselfe taught and shewed vnto him such things as hee should commit to writinge to the behoofe of Posteritie and especially for the instruction of his moste deerely beeloued Church Surely this cannot bee thaught muchlesse spoken without notorious blasphemie against God himselfe But rather as S. Augustine teacheth in his 5. booke and third Chapter de Genesiad Literam of Genesis vpoÌ„ the letter that in that Moses speaketh so plainly hee doth it by the assured counsell and iudgemente of the holy Ghost to the intent that by the hight of the thynges hee maye terrifie the proude by the deapth hee may hold them attentiue by the trueth hee may feede the great ones and by hys affabilitie hee maye nourishe the little ones The fourth Chapter The difference beetween Christian and heathen Naturall Philosophie S. WHat differeÌ„ce therfore is ther betwen Moses Aristotle y is to say betweene ChristiaÌ„ and Heathen Natural Philosophers in thys kinde of learninge M. Uery great which notwithstanding maye bee especially perceiued in three poyntes S. Which bee they M. The firste is in the ende of this knowledge whiche thei bothe doe respecte and followe S. Declare thesame M. The Christian Naturall Philosophers whiche intreate of the thinges that are created dooe referre the summe of their disputatioÌ„ to this ende that our greate and good God who is the auctour Father and creatour of them all maie bee knowne praised and extolled and finally woorshipped the more ardently and more feared But
in the same place are tearmed vnuisible The other place is in the Epistle to the Hebrewes the 11. chapter and 3. verse where the same thinges are called such as may bee seene Althoughe that whiche is written in the booke of wisedome the 7. chapter the 17. 18. and 19. verses and the 13 chapter and 2. verse may expound and confirme the same if it bee ioyned to the places aboue recited S. Declare these thyngs more at large M. This therefore it is whiche I saie Not euery thyng whiche subsisteth and whiche the Greekes dooe call his sumthing doeth apperteine to the handlynge of naturall Philosophie For God subsisteth who hath not onely some beeing but the same also moste true and an absolut substance and farther I would adde also if I maie bee so bolde so to speake a nature also for what shall let mee to saie with S. Peter in his 2. Epistle the 1 chapit and 4. verse The diuine nature or The nature of God the declaration and discourse cōcernyng whiche is to bee sought by an other Arte and whiche is of more price and dignitie than this is For God is the Creator and maker of thynges not a creature and made And the force and nature of creatures is onely considered of in this science and knowledge S. Yea but is the knowledge of euery creature considered of herein M. No not so For Angelles are a kinde of creatures but they belōg not vnto natural Philosophers although it bee cōmonly saied by all men that thei haue nature and this kinde of phrase also is vsually found among the Fathers to wit The nature of Angels Of which nature therfore Moses entreated not in al that whole fyrst chapter of Genesis although in the same hee haue most breifly comprehended the whole matter of Naturall Philosophie S. But in the same first chapter he hath intreated of darnesse which thinge surely can not bee seene and yet it belongeth to this science M. You iudge well for indeede it belongeth to the setting foorth of the nature of things but by accident as they call it for neither the meanes of gatheringe togither the lighte neither of other the firste thinges coulde bee plainely declared vnlesse they were sette foorth by their contraries or priuations For darkenesse as it is a meere priuation doth not properly of it selfe beelonge to this art but so farre foorth as it possesseth an vse and place in the nature of thinges and hath declared the power of GOD to bee the greater in the creation of this worlde it is very well mencioned of by Moses Of all which matter wee will speake more hereafter S. Gather therefore nowe togither such thinges as you woulde and what you haue proued M. Since then neyther God neither the Angels doe appertaine to the Naturall Philosophers and to this our present disputation it remaineth that the matter of this knowledge and science bee saide properly to be that creature which may bee seene and hath a place as S. Augustine speaketh and hath a body and is subiecte vnto our senses all or some of them S. But the Philosophers almost all of them are of another opinion For they thinke that the subiect matter of this Art is that thing which is mouable in that respecte that it is Moueable not in respecte that it is created or subiect vnto our sight M. It is true But therein they erre doubly The fyrste errour is that forasmuch as the signification of Motion is verie large accordinge to their owne opinion that it may also bee extended to the Angels since manye times also they moue from place to place at Gods commaundement and indeede are fallen from theire fyrst originall hauinge suffered no small chaunge not onely of their place but also of theyr nature surely the disputation concerninge them were a parte that proper of the science of Naturall Philosophie which notwithstandinge they doe very stoutly and that also verily in deed dency And this is theyr first erroure The second is that the knowledge of Naturall Philosophie doth not beelonge vnto the thynges which wee see if so bee any of them bee vnmouable as thinges that neither perishe nor are changed Which since it hath hapned vnto man for sinne after his creatiō perfect nature truely according to their opiniō neither should mā before hee had sinned for the most part of him haue ben a subiect of natural Philosophie neither shoulde the treatie of him haue appertayned to Naturall Philosophie Which thing howe vntrue it is it appeareth out of the sayinge of S. Paule who will haue althings that may bee seene with our eies to belong to this our knowledge to the science of Naturall Philosophie and to bee a ready and apte meane and degree to the knowledge of god It appeareth also by the same place that the nature of man while hee was pure and had not yet sinned is by Moses reckoned amonge Naturall thinges It appeareth moreouer out of sundrie Psalmes that Man and the nature of man as it was first created by God is most truely numbred among the kindes of Naturall thinges as in the 8. and 104. and 139. Psalmes the 13. 15. and 16. verses and also in the 148. Psalme To conclude they that make The mouable bodye to bee the subiect of this science what other thinge go they about but to teache that there bee two subiectes of one Art to wit the bodie and his motion when as indeede one arte ought to haue but one subiect S. Why then doe Naturall Philosophers define and determine those thinges which they call Naturall by Motion especially M. First bicause al their knowledge is gathered as they tearme it from that which is latter not from that which is fyrst For things then began to bee knowne when they were once extant and by meanes of mans transgression were made mortall that is to saie were by GOD appointed vnto miserie and destruction For when they were destitute of Gods woorde and light they perceiued not nor saw what manner ones they were first created Wherefore when they began to bee busied in these naturall things which are now corrupted they perceiued their great and perpetuall chaunges ebbinge and flowinge and inconstancie in abidinge in one estate and they iudged that Natural things should bee supposed of accordinge to that their owne condition Moreouer seeing that Motion and chaunge may most easilie and generally bee noted in all these things which wee see and which are in this worlde it was an easie matter to distinguish and determine Naturall thinges by their motion There is motion truely in all naturall thinges and also in other which are not Naturall as in Angels where by it cummeth to passe that Natural thinges cannot properly bee separated and discerned from things not Naturall by Motion S. Why do you call a thing Natural bicause of it owne nature it maye bee seene and perceiued M. Bicause forasmuch as God hath created two chiefe kindes of thinges to his owne
4. verse and wheras in an other place he calleth certain tymes seculare the 2. to Timothie the 2. Chapter and 9. verse to Titus the 1. Chapter and 2. verse vnlesse that wee confesse that all these thinges had a certeine time of beginning and beeing What are these eternall and seculare tymes what ugnifieth this woord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is there not vnderstod therby a laying of the foundacions in time and doth hee not terme those times seculare whiche passed away and must bee numbred from the moment and pricke of time wherein all these thinges began to bee made In which point Sainet Augustine agréeth with vs in his booke againste the Priscillianists the 6. chapter To bee shorte howe shoulde the ages of those auncient men Adam Enoch Noah also the time of the vniuersall flood bee knowne how far distant it is since the beeginninge of the woorlde if there were no beeginning of time in which the world was made In so much as I meruaile what shoulde mooue certaine Ecclesiasticall writers to doubt thereof and specially S. Augustine a man so much exercised in the scriptures as namely in his booke of Genesis vpon the letter althoughe also afterwarde hee bee altogither variable in defending the same and manye times diuerse and dissentinge from him selfe S. But ther bee some that obiect two auctorities which are repugnaunt to your opinion whereof the first is that which is written in the 18. chapter and 5. verse of Ecclesi GOD made althing at once wherevnto I praye you to answere first M. It shall bee an easie matter so to doe For if I lyste I coulde aunswere that which as I suppose wee haue already agreed vpon that the auctoritie of this booke is farre to bee remooued and separated from the Diuine canonicall Scriptures And therefore it prooueth nothing Howbeit I had rather say that that is true which is confirmed by the woordes of the texte and that the place is corruptly translated in this maner God made all thinge at once for the meaninge of the aucthours woordes is this Hee that liueth for euer made all thinges togither hee saith altogither Wherfore wee are taught to acknowledge one onely aucthour and creatuor of all thinges as Ireneus sayth in the 4. booke and 21. chapter it is not there affirmed that all thinges that are created had there beeing beeginninge or were all made in one moment or that they were frō euerlasting or without beeginning of time This is therfore the signification of this woorde Pariter togither to wit that the power to create all thinges is giuen to one and not to many For the same booke in the 16. Chapter and 25. verse setteth downe howe that created things were disposed and made in certein order and time Howbeit I am not ignorant howe much the signification and readinge of this onely woorde Pariter togither did oftentimes trouble S. Augustine in the 5. booke and 3. Chap and also in his 6. booke and 6. Chapter of Genesis vpon the letter ▪ and also many other of the Fathers Thus haue you mine answere to your firste obiection to wyt that for at once you must vnderstande togyther Nowe tell me your other aucthoritie S. They alleage also that whiche is written in S. Iohns Gospell the 1. chapter and 1. verse In the beginnyng was the woord Now if you think that this woord beginnyng is to bee referred to time then must you most impiously affirme that the woord or the Sun of God which is signified thereby had his beeginning in some time and is not eternall M. Truely wee should bee hardly vrged by so great auctoritie of the Scripture vnlesse the matter it selfe whereof wee intreate did minister vnto vs the dissoluing and exposition of this difficultie Wee haue alreadie declared howe that the signification of this woord principium or beeginnyng is sundrie wherfore it ought too bee taken accordyng to the reason and nature of the thyng whereof wee dispute And you see how S. Iohn plainly saith that this woord or Sunne of GOD was not created in the beginning but that it was in the beeginning when God created all thinges so that S. Iohn setteth this his In the beginnyng was against the saying of Moses and creation of all things where the Scripture speaketh thus In the beginnyng God created heauen and not thus in the beginning was heauen And moreouer S. Iohn teacheth that the same woord of God is also the same god And that woord sayeth hee was god But that whiche is God can haue no beeginning of tyme Wherfore the same is most falsly expounded and vnderstoode of time and beeginnyng of existencie in Christ And therefore this woord Beeginnyng hath another signification in that place too wit that by whiche S. Iohn excludeth all beeginnyng of time to the ende that so far as our mindes are able by thinkyng too looke backe and to stretche foorthe themselues wee may not withstanding beeleue moste assuredly that beefore that woorde and Sunne of GOD had beeing and had a distinct substance from the Father By whiche meanes of speaking eternitie is accustomably signified in the Scriptures as it appeareth in the 8. of the Prouerbes And also by the selfe same testimonie of S. Iohn it is declared how that all these thinges were made and brought foorthe in the beeginning of tyme for they were not in the beeginning as was the woorde but they were made for asmuch as they were not in the beeginning The xvi Chapter That the worlde came of it selfe S. NOw since you haue prooued that the worlde had a beeginning of beeing I praye you declare whether it came of it selfe or of some other M I suppose there is no man though hee bee but slenderly learned in the Scriptures that doubteth concernyng this poinct to wit that the worlde came not of it selfe but of another to wit of god For if it came of it selfe it should also bee immortall and eternall and not made in tyme For it were then of abilitie to minister force vnto it selfe to endure perpetually and it should also haue alwayes bene And besides this it should bee a god For what soeuer is of it self and hath life substance must needs be god Forasmuch as the Creatour differeth frō the creature in that respect especially in that the Creatour is and subsisteth by his own power and vertue and the creatures onely by his power and assistance Worthily therfore S. Augustine in his Enchiridion No man saith hee can bee of hymself The omnipotencie of the Creator and the vertue of hym that is omnipotent and possesseth all thyng is the cause of euery creatures subsisting Whosoeuer therefore shall deny this to wit that this world was made by the wil and power of God but will contende that it had the force and vertue in it selfe of beeing plainly repugneth against the whole sacred Scriptures For there is no thing almost better knowne or more oftner inculcated into our eares than that God is
hearbes and flowers without seede or slippe But hee that is the true creatour hee maketh his matter and stuffe in whiche and of which hee woorketh of nothing hee hath it not alreadie prepared or ministred from some other place But to saie that the matter was coeternall with God himselfe or existing of it selfe and to deny that it was firste made and brought foorth by God out of nothing is not the part of Christians but plainly of the Hermogenian heretikes So that there is a moste large distinction beetweene creation and engendring Those thinges are created whiche are made of no substanciall or materiall beeginnyng Those are engendred or made not whiche are made out of nothing but out of a former substance and matter Wherefore neither good Angels nor bad nor diuelles bee or ought to bee called creatours mutch lesse men for it is onely proper to God to create whiche these places following doe confirme to wit S. Augustine in his 3. booke of the Trinitie the 8. chap. Isay the 45. chapt Iob the 26. chapt the 33 Psalme Actes the 17. chap. and 24. verse Yet am I not ignorant notwithstandyng what othersome doe dispute against this that the power of creating may also bee giuen vnto creatures S. But there be many thinges that doe withstand your opinion M. What bee they S. First that whiche your selfe alleaged and is a moste certeine position among the naturall Philosophers and confirmed in all mens iudgementes by continual experience Nothyng is made of nothyng How then should God haue made al these thinges if so bee that hee had no matter prepared to his hand that is to say if hee had nothing to make them of M. Truely this is an olde obiection and often repeated by Heathen men in expoundyng whereof Iustine the Martyr or whosoeuer he was else that answered the obiections of the Ethnikes hee tooke great paines therin which difficultie mee thinkes I can easilye resolue First in that the insinite incomprehensible omnipotencie of God the creatour is not only a misse but peruersly called to the lawes of nature which was made and created For what is that other than to go about to make the creature equall to the Creatour But as the Lorde witnesseth that his thoughtes doe differ farre from ours so likewise is the force power farre discrepant from ours and farre excelling the strength and vertue of this nature Iob the 10. chapter and 45. verse Now if a man woulde thus conclude At this present and since the tyme that the Lorde appointed this order that nothing shoulde bee made of nothing there is nowe nothing made without matter readye and prepared beefore Wherefore in the beeginning and before that God had ordeined these lawes it toke place then neither coulde anye thinge bee made other wise Your selfe perceiue how much they are deceiued that doe so conclude As for example if a man would thus dispute that in the beeginning the first trees at the same verie instant wherin God made them could not bring foorthe their fruites bicause y now adaies they bee not so forwarde but neede longer time to beare and ripen them if a man I say shoulde reason thus euerie body woulde laughe him to skorne and woulde perceiue that hys sayinge were falfe out of Isay the 46. chapter and â–ª 8. verse and not onely out of the first Chapter of Moyses For whoso were of that opinion were deceiued through great ignorance and confusion of diuerse tymes and conditions which amonge thinges are to bee distinguished And euen so they who as you say doe obiect against the first creation of thinges That Nothing is made of nothing bycause that nowe nothing is made of nothing hee disputeth of most different and vnlike times and conditions To wit from the nature whiche was to bee created and not yet tied by any law vnto the nature created which is now reuoked constrained by sure certein lawes Which kynde of conclusion S. Augustine also laugheth at in his booke 2. booke against Pelagia the 25. Chapter Thus haue you my answere vnto that most common and vsuall argument of the Philosophers What is the seconde argument which you say may be brought against vs S. The aucthoritie which they alleage out of the xi cha and 18. verse of the booke of VVisedome For vnto thyne almightie hande that made the worlde out of a rude and vnfourmed matter there lacked no strength to sende a multitude of beares or of fierce Lions amonge them Ergo the worlde was made of rude and vnformed matter and not of nothyng To which opinion Sainct Augustine seemeth to agree in the 3. booke the 5. and 6. Chapters of the Trinitie For hee sayth that There is a certaine common matter consisting in the causes of the worlde M. Indeede this which you doe aleage hath seemed vnto some to bee a verie forceable argument And therfore the materiar heretikes which are called also the Hermogenians doe chiefly staye themselues vppon that against whom Tertullian hath writen manye noble and learned woorkes And that I may saye nothinge of the aucthoritie of that booke lyke as I sayde beefore notwithstanding I will answere this which is most true that it is there taught and beleeued that the same rude and vnformed matter out of which it is said the worlde was made was first created by GOD of nothing not out of any other matter wrought or supplied for so shoulde wee runne foorth infinitely neithere existinge of it selfe for then shoulde it bee verye god But whosoeuer he was that wrote that booke hee wrote in such manner out of the opinion whiche was then receiued and knowne amonge the Hebrue Rabbines and was afterward alowed of and embraced of all to wit that heauen and earth which two are saide in the 1. of Genesis to haue beene created the firste daye were as it were the first matter of Gods woorkes which were created afterwarde whiche God by his mightie vertue prepared vnto him self and cast togither ministred first rudely whereby afterwarde hee might finishe and forme the residue of that so greate a woorke And as touching Sainct Augustine they that alleage him against vs do altogither wreast hys auctority For S. Augustine intreateth not there of the first matter of thys whole worlde as though hee would haue it to bee one or feigned or imagined it to bee coeternall with God but hee speaketh of the seconde matter through which as in thinges nowe alreadye created one thinge sprunge of an other by the commaundement of GOD as out of the earth trees and beastes and as at thys daye also they are made and doe proceede There was foresowne saith hee eeuen in those thinges the matter of such thinges as arose and sprung out of them the 3. booke of Genesis vppon the letter the 14. chapter and the 2. booke the 15. chapter and the 1. booke the 14. and 15. Chapter and the 5. booke the 5. chap. S. Thirdly they saye that that is not the
all thinges were made for the glorie of the true GOD who is reuealed vntoo vs in his woord Prouerbes the 16. chapter and 16. verse and also S. Paule sayeth in the 1. chapter to the Romanes the 20. verse that the knowledge of GOD is learned out of these created and visible thinges For this world is a familiare coÌ„mon to all landes people nations a free and most beautifull looking glasse wherin the power wisedome and goodnes of God is layed foorth before vs to bee seen beeholden and acknowledged as it is abundantly declared in the 29. Psalme the 1. 2. 3. 4. and 5. verses whereunto you may adde that whiche is written in the booke of wisdome the 13. chapter the 1. and 5 verses Hereof cummeth that saying of Iob in the 36. chapter and 29. verse Remember that thou doe magnifie hys woorke hee meaneth Gods whiche all men doe beehold and see and man looketh vpon a farre of And therefore Isay in the 44. chapter and 23. verse not onely inuiteth men but all other creatures also to sing prayse vnto god The like is also doone in the 147. Psalme S. But seeing that the glory of God is the setting foorth of his vertues and excellencie what vertues or exceading greatnes doth there appeare in the looking glasse of this world wherein are seen such and so many confusions of all thinges M. There are obiect vnto our eies so infinite and innumerable vertues moreouer so noble and incomprehensible excellencie and maiestie that the eternall deitie of the almightie God doth truely and manifestly shewfoorth it selfe in the beeholding and surueiyng of this world as S. Paule sayeth But that I may not runne through all and that this disputation may at length drawe to an end wee will reuoke and contract the ende of this worlde into the klowledge of three speciall vertues in God. S. Whiche bee they M. Power wisedome goodnes S. Alleage vnto mee some example of these thinges M. First the power of God appeareth wounderful great in creating this worlde yea plainely infinite and far surmounting al capacitie and vnderstaÌ„ding of mans witte In that God hath made all these things of nothing so many in number so big in Moâ—e and so wide in place Which beeing all seuerally beholden and considered doe argue great power and force in the maker but beeing generally looked vpon do declare that his power is incomprehensible and infinite Thys power of God in creating the world is proposed vnto vs to bee acknowledged and thought vpon namely in the 19. Psalme and also in the 145. And as for other places of the Scriptures and Prophetes what shall I neede to goe about to recite them in this place S. Giue mee an example of Gods wisedome in the creating and contemplation of the woorkmanship of this world M. That may easely bee seene First in that hee hath placed so many sundrie and diuerse partes and so many seuerall kindes of thinges in one whole bodie next that hee hath giuen a peculiare and proper force and nature vnto euery kinde Moreouer that hee hath alotted to euery nature his owne proper place and metion and to bee short that hee assigneth not onely vnto euery kind but also vnto euery parte of euerie particulare thing it owne proper vse ende profit and effect So that that great wisedome of God hath not made no not the least thing in vaine whiche is truely the manifold wisedome as S. Paule termeth it to the Ephesians the 3. chapter and 10. verse And therefore it is said in the 136. Psalme and 5. verse that hee made the heauens with vnsearchable vnderstanding and wisdome And when as the Prophet Dauid considered in his minde deepely the framing of this world hee cried out and sayd Thy knowledge is to woonderfull and excelleÌ„t for mee I can not attaine vnto it Psalme 139. and 6. verse wherevnto also that may bee added which is writen in the 39. chapter and 26. verse of Ecclesiasticus This our opinion also is confirmed in the 8. chapt and 27. and 28. verses and the residue following and also the 21. cha and 30. verse and by this one thing moreouer that whereas there bee certein thinges yea and men also that are of diuerse and fundrie qualities and condicions and of natures quite contrarie they were to good purpose by the same wisedom of God created in suche maner For the Lord hath wisely made a difference and distinction beetweene the ritchman and the poore Prouerbes the 22. chapter and 2. verse To bee short those thinges whiche wee make none accoumpt of and are indeede but small as a Guat a Woorme and a Butterflie in these notwithstanding appeareth the wonderfull wisedome of God insomuche as wee must needes acknowledge that to bee true which was spoken by Plinie an Heathen writer Nature is neuer more whole in any thing then in the least S. What say you of the goodnes of God doeth that appeere notably in the woorkemanship and creatures of this world M. Yea very mutch And although the â—ame bee mosteuident in y redemption of mankinde whiche was accomplished by the death and passion of our Lord Iesus Christ notwithstandyng it appeareth also vntoo vs to bee very excellent and incomprehensible in the creation constitution and coÌ„seruation of this world S. Declare howe M. First this is a great goodnesse of God that he would haue thinges to exist and bee which were not beefore Moreouer in that hee gaue them lyfe and nature to the intent they shoulde exist whiche could not bee had from any other than him Who onely is the fountayn of lyfe and afterward hath assigned vnto euery kinde of thing it owne proper most conuenient foode and and not assigned it once but also prepareth distributeth and yeldeth it euery day Finally in that he dayly preserueth and defendeth all thinges that are and beynge a good and mercifull father of his owne greate bowntie hath not onely giuen them partes members wherby they may coÌ„modiously liue but endewed them also with motion and sense Whereby they may passe their life pleasantly and willingly enioye it with a sweete delight All which it were infinite to recken And therefore it is well and truely sayd in the 33. Psal and 5. verse that the whole earth is full of his goodnesse And againe in the 145. Psal and 7. verse it is sayde that the multitude of the goodnesse of God springeth foorth from his workes For hee openeth his hande and satisfied euery liuing thing vnto fullnesse and pleasure Whervnto that seemeth to appertayne which is written in the 147. and 148. Psal and that may well bee concluded which all the auncient godly Fathers haue iudged specially Tertullian hath ofteÌ„times written to wit That God by the creatinge of thys world is cognized and by the preaching of his woord is recognized S. But there appeare manye confusions in this worlde which doe obscure the light of this goodnes wisedom and power of God. M. Indeede they darken
hee is not called onely the image but also the liuely brightnesse of the Fathers glorye And yet farther to the intent it may bee the better vnderstoode what and how great the difference is wee must note that the world and man are a notable but yet a shadowed representation of those things which they do teach vs cōcerning god And Christ the expresse and liuely fourme in whose inward natural and substanciall brightnesse wee may most euidently behold the infinite power of God and incomprehensible loue towardes vs men Thus therefore when wee thincke vppon God and beholde him in all other thinges suche is our vanitie that immediatly wee decay and come to naught but when wee looke vppon him in Christ wee are quieted and stayed most firmely and substantially Wherefore there ought no comparison bee made betweene these which differ in kinde and manner of representation The xxxiii Chapter Two endes of the worlde not chiefe S. BUT bee ther not also other finall causes of the worlde M. Yeas there bee two but not chiefe S. What bee they M. The first is this to wit the vse of al men For this worlde was created for mans sake and man for god The seconde is for the Church or congregation For the worlde was created to the entent it should bee an house and dwelling place prepared for the Church and congregation that should bee hereafter where in it might remaine of it owne right which congregation God woulde establishe there and afterward bring to heauen S. Howe prooue you this M. First out of the 8. Psalme And secondly by that which S. Paule writeth to the Romanes the 4. Chapter and 13. verse The xxxiiii Chapter Of the meanes and engins whereby God raysed this so great a frame of the worlde and first of the woorde of God which was the meanes whereby this worlde was created S. HEtherto you haue declared the causes of this worlde nowe shewe the meanes and instrumentes wherby it was created And when mention is made of the creation of the woorlde some do demaunde what wedges what tooles and engins were occupied to the rearinge vp of so great a mole and they thinke themselues not satisfied vnlesse aunswere bee made vnto those doubtes of their minde M. Thei that seeke to know with what instruments this worlde was created do verie foolyshly forasmuch as this woorde create doth sufficiently declare that all this whole woorke is plainly miraculous and supernaturall For God vsed no tooles nor engins as carpenters vse to doe thereby to supplie the infirmitie of their strength But all his framing and buildinge and the woorkemanship of thys worlde doeth differ farre from all our meanes and pollices S. Tell mee then what it was M. In declaringe the meanes by which this world was created ther are foure things annexed which we must not pretermit and they perteine to the settinge foorth of Gods glory and omnipotencie wherof the fyrst is this that the worlde was created at the woorde and commaundement of God. S. Howe prooue you that M. Behold a most manifest place of the Scripture in the 33. Psalme 9. verse For hee spake and it was doone hee commaunded and it stoode fast and in the 148. Psalme and 5. verse Hee commaunded and they were created Moreouer Moses in the first chapter of Genesis beefore the creation of euery thing as they were made and created orderly in euery daye so doeth hee plainely shewe that the woord and cōmaundement of God went alwayes before And the Lorde sayde let it bee made c. Yea the Stoikes haue saide that the woorde of God was the efficient cause of the whole nature of thinges as Laertius writeth in his 7. booke in the life of Zeno. S. But there bee twoo impedementes that it can not bee so M. Which bee they S. The fyrst is that which is written in the 45. Chapter and 12. verse of Isay My handes haue stretched foorth the heauens Ergo God made not these things with his woord but with his handes M. Uerily this saiyng conteineth a most manifest Metaphore when hee attributeth handes vnto God and when in respect of the weakenesse of our vnderstanding God is cōpared to an handie craftes man which woorketh with his owne hāds the like wherof there are many authorities to be foūde in y scriptures And whereas this woorde of creating is vsed in the same place it plainly calleth vs backe vnto that diuine and extraordinarie woorke of God and to thinke vppon that meane onely which Moses hath recited M. The seconde impediment is that wheras in another place in like kind of thinges and semblable argument mention is made of the woorde of God notwithstanding Gods secret will is ment thereby whiche is not expressed in any woord or commaundemēt as in the 147. Psalme 15. and 18. verses where he speaketh of Ice Hee sendeth out his woorde and melteth it M. You say well Howbeit in Genesis the verye text also Moses minde teatheth vs that wee must say and thinke otherwise where it is plainly writen that God spake and cōmaunded that to bee which was made Wherfore the only bare and secrete will of God is not there to bee vnderstood and taken but that which is reuealed by the prolation and vtteringe of some woorde of his and commaundement Which opinion of mine is confirmed by an interpretation which the Scripture it self maketh noting that this was doone by vttering of some woorde or voyce For in the 33. Psalme and 6. verse after that it is declared that these things were made by the woorde of God for true exposition sake it is added by the spirite of his mouth For a voice is made by the breathing foorth of aire which is doone by the mouth S. But by this meanes feigning that God hath a tōgue roofe of the mouth and teeth with out whiche instruments no voyce can bee vttered you seeme to reuoke againe out of Hell the abominable errour of the Antropomorphites M. God forbid that I should thinke so wickedly of the infinite and omnipotent maiestie of god But like as the Lorde spake so as he might bee heard and vnderstoode when hee gaue the law in mount Sinai which no man can deney as likewise when hee spake to Moses whē he gaue answere by Vrim Thumim y Lord spake vttered a voice in the hearing of the people yet not withstāding we must not feigne y god hath a tongue a mouth a palate of the mouth teeth So in the beginning creation of the world when it is sayd that God spake his diuine shape was not chaunged intoo an humane fourme but it came to passe by a speciall prouidence and pollicie For the Lord tooke vpon him for a tyme suche meanes as were necessarie for the bringing foorth a cleare and audible voice wherof afterward hee left the vse S Doe you thinke then that the Lord spake plainly and distinctly M. Yea verely Howbeeit I am not ignorant what S. Augustine thinketh
as it may easily bee gathered out of the 4. chapter of Ieremie and 24. and 25. verses Finally in respect hereof this whole world is made as it were a confused mist specially the inferiour and elementare part thereof Iob the 10. chap. and 21. and 22. verses also mortall and transitorie as it is writen in the Prouerbes the 31. chapter and 8. verse and 2. of Peter the 3. chapter and 10. verse so that it may one day perish and bee destroied S. Was not then this worlde mortall and transitorie beefore mans transgression M. I can say nothyng concerning that point bicause the Scripture herein teacheth mee not any thyng Howbeit this one thing I may affirme that this world of it self and in respect that it was a creature was subiect to alteration vnlesse GOD did susteine and preserue it But whether God would alwaies haue preserued and susteined it if man had not trangressed I will not say As for man for whose sake this worlde was created to bee as it were his dwelling house although hee should haue bin immortall as S. Augustine writeth after the booke of wisedome in his booke De Agone Christiano yet should they at length one after another haue binne translated into heauen into a better state But whether there should alwaies haue bin some men in the worlde and some should alwayes haue liued heere I doe not know The xlii Chapter From whence poysons and hurtfull thinges sprang in the world S. NOw if the worlde and all the partes thereof were created so good at the first from whence then sprang so many poysons so many hurtfull things and deadlye hearbes so many Serpentes with the sight of their eyes only pestiferous vntoo men M. By sinne and for the sinne of man these so many Plagues venimes poysons hurtful hearbes and noysom beastes sprang vp as the wordes of the Lorde doe declare in the booke of Moses Genesis the 3. chapter and 18. verse For God made nothing at the beginnyng that was vnto any thing poyson deadly hurtfull and discommodious Wherfore if thinges had continued in that nature wherein almightie God created them at the first there should now be neither poysons neither euill thinges For it is not possible that any thing sauyng that which is good should bee made or proceede from hym that is most good Yea there is nothyng at this day that is absolute and in all respectes poyson but that whiche is hurtfull as too man is profitable and holsome to another as to a Serpent S. I vnderstand you But why will God haue poysons noysom herbes and hurtfull beastes to remaine now in the earth since mans transgression M. There maye sundrie causes bee alleaged but specially two which S. August bringeth forth in his 3. booke and 17. chap. de Genesi ad Literam The first cause why these doe continue is for punishment and reuenge against man And therefore they doe all hurt Man for whose offence sake they bee made poison Moreouer they bee profitable to prooue tempt and exercise Man to the entent that hee maye acknowledge his owne infirmitie aske helpe of god But this thirde reason may bee also alledged that those hearbes whiche bee hurtfull vnto man as Hemlock woulfbane coloquintida such like are the euil iuce of the earth and as it were certeine excremētes which are needful too bee expelled to the ende that the iuce of the other frutes of the earth maye remaine good and sincere holsome and commodious vnto vs. S. If the thinges which God created first were so good for Moses sayde not onely that they were good but also that they were very good what difference then is there beetweene God himfelfe and his woorkes M. There is a threefolde and that most large wide difference between them To wit that God of himself is most excellent vnchangeable good But the creatures are not so of thēselues but of God not excellently but so far as their nature will suffer not so vnchangeably good but that they might fall away from it For that goodnesse coulde neuer haue decayed in them haue bene chaunged into vanitie if so bee thei had bene vnchaungeably good Howbeit to the ende wee shoulde not doubt y they were good Moses added this plainly God sawe that they were good The xliii Chapter Why the thinges that were created are playnly saide too bee good S. WHy did Moses adde these words expresty M. For two causes To the intent we should not lightly passe ouer these woordes of God as many doe as though they conteined in them no excellencie or notable qualitie whiche mighte mooue vs vnto admiration For in deed they haue so in them and the Lorde himselfe testifieth the same And therefore much lesse that wee ought to condemne dispraise and mocke at so excellent woorkes of God bicause of the confusion and disorder which nowe is in them through Mans transgression as did that blasphemous felowe Momus and the Mamchees and Marcianite heretikes For wee cannot so doe with out offeringe greate iniurie vnto God and in so doeing wee take the Lordes name in vaine Wherefore the Mamchees are to bee condemned and whosoeuer else doe contende that the creatures of themselues and as God first made them were euill For that is most false as it appeareth in the 1. to Timothie the 4. Chapter and 4. verse Moreouer this admonition and sayinge mooueth mee not to dispute this question whiche certaine curious felowes haue doone to wit whether God could haue created euery particulare thing or the whole worlde better or now coulde if neede were frame it in more absolute state than hee first created it For to seeke and searche this what is it other than to passe those bondes whiche the Spirite of God hath laide beefore vs and to folowe our owne wandringe mindes For God made all things that hee created very good To conclude this admonition is very profitable vnto vs in this respect that wee doe not rashely abuse the creatures of God which many tymes seeme vile vnto vs intemperately at our lust and pleasure which y holy Ghost himselfe pronounceth to bee so precious Wherefore wee ought to vse them soberly modestly and wisely S. But why was that saiyng And the Lorde sawe that it was good let passe in the woorke of some daies as of the seconde daie M. Bicause that daie conteineth onely the beginnyng of the whole woorke whiche was made afterward and not the consummation and finishyng thereof And therefore that blessyng is deferred vnto the ende of the woorke ¶ The. xliiii Chapter Whether in the first creation of all thinges God made two Contraries S. BUt forasmuch as now you are in handling the state of the world wherin it was first made tell mee I pray you whether that opinion bee true concerninge the thinges that were first created whether God made two contraries the one to striue against an other Thus they saye colde thinges and hotte highe and lowe white and blacke greate
Ecclesiast the 8. chapter and 11. verse Wherfore wheÌ„ this age and figure of this worlde is past this order of thinges shall perishe also the 1 â–ª to the Corinthians the 7. chapter and 30. verse the 1. Epistle of S. Peter the 3 chapter the 4. and 7. verses but it shall continue vntill that time For the Hebrues themselues do plainle signifie that this worlde shall one day haue an end callinge the same worlde by the name of Chadel Psalme 39. verse 5. S. By which definition therefore or by whiche of those three significations muste the worlde bee taken in this disputation M. By the fyrst S. What is the worlde M. The worlde is not onely a certeine comprehensyon and heapinge togither of all these visible thinges but also a most orderly and wise distinction ordeined by God in euery kinde and space whereof hee made heauen and earth to bee the extreame partes S. Whence doe you prooue this your definition M. First out of the verie same places of the scripture by whiche I prooued that all thinges visible and whiche can bee seene are the matter of this Arte and also by that the scripture for the most part vseth to tearme the most excellently and beutifully ordered frame of thys whole worlde by the name of the worlde as in Genesis the 24. Chapter and 22. verse the 2. Chapter the 4. verse Mathew the 11. Chapter the 25. verse and in other places also almost infinite S. Why haue you comprehended both these pointes in your definition to wit that the worlde is not onely a general compreheÌ„sion of al things togither but also of them seuerally distinguished M. Bycause if wee wil conceiue in our minde confusedly all thinges whereof this world consisteth and is diforderly heaped togither or lyinge one vpon an other not yet disposed into any order but as it were the rubbishe of some house that were fallen downe or as it were stuffe prepared to build some house withall such an heape of thinges can not yet bee called a worlde It is rather that whiche the Grecians both Poetes others tearmed by the name of Chaos the Hebrues call the same Bohu that is to say a disordered heape from whiche some thinke the woord Chaos was deriued by a smal chauÌ„ge to wit of the letter B. into C. as though the Grecians beeing disdainfull hearers and vnskilfull Schollars had vnderstoode the woord rather after that maner Hereof that phrase and maner of speaking in the Latine toungue is knowne whiche Verrius the learned Grammarian hath noted that in the olde tyme the auncient people called the world Cohum and from thence this woord inâ—hâ—are to beeginne and leaue vnperfect was deriued But by the Apostle in the Epistle to the Hebrues the 3. chapter and 4. verse the worlde is called an houshold and compared to a familie well and orderly disposed neither is it a disordered heape in deede The. ix Chapter Whether the world may truely and Christianly bee called an vniuersalitie S. BUt in that this world is by some Latine Writers called vniuersitas an vniuersalitie and by the Grecians all and the whole doo you allow of it M. Although I know that so proud a name as that is doth scarce please well some very well learned and godly men notwithstanding forasmuche as graue auctours and also Ecclesiasticall Fathers and writers haue vsed that woorde truely I iudge that it is not to bee reiected For S. Augustine in his Enchirid the 10. chapt and in the 8. booke and 25. chapt of Genesis accordyng to the Letter and Tertullian also in some place and Ireneus likewise in the 2. booke and 12. is not afeard to vse this woord for the world that I may not also commende vnto you in this respecte S. Ambrose and S. Basill whose opinions perhaps may bee confirmed out of the 3. chap. and 4. verse of the E. pistle to the Hebrues For although besides this visible world there bee other creatures of God and those also many very excellent beutifull as are the Angels and the seates of the Sainctes and blessed men and this name vniuersalitie seemeth to bee an arrogant and bold name yet all men knowe in what sense they call it so and how wee ought to vnderstand it to wit that the worlde is an vniuersalitie not of all Gods creatures but of those onely that can bee seen and are corporall S. Hetherto concernyng the name of the world now let vs come to the thing it self M. Yes for so the order of the disputation requireth The. x. Chapter Whether the worlde and the thinges that are conteined therein bee sound bodies or certeine shadowes onely S. WHat things therfore may there bee taught out of holie Scripture concernynge the world M. Many thinges truelie and those all moste woorthy too bee knowne whiche apperteine too the praise and admiration of God the Creatour wherof some declare the nature of the world and othersome the causes of it S. Whiche bee they that declare the nature of the world and of this whole vniuersalitie M. Those questions for the most part whiche are diuersly tossed either by Heretikes or by Philosophers S. Which is the first of them M. Whether this world and the thinges therein conteined bee substances that is to say certaine sound bodies and natures truelye and in deede subsisting or whether thei bee certeine shadowes onely and the representations and images of thinges S. How should they bee so M. Bicause not onely Plato will haue all thinges that are here to bee the images of certein ideae or patterns and the shadowes onely of true natures whiche are in heauen and remaine in Gods minde but also the Valentinian heretikes contend that whatsoeuer thinges are in this world are onely the meere imagies of their Eternities and representations and transitorie shadowes of them In confirmation of whiche their opinion they alleage the testimonie of S. Paule the 1. Epistle the 7. chap. and 31. verse to the Corinthians The figure of this world saith hee passeth away as though they were but vaine shewes and no sound bodies whatsoeuer thinges wee beeholde here with our eyes what manner thing that was which the Poet described in these woordes And but his learned guide instruct hym did to let go by Those flittering teÌ„der fourmes not to touch those shapes that fly Whiche nothing bin but life and substance none but likenesse thin Hee would with them haue fought and did in vaine to beate beegin S. Can you answere vnto this M. Yea. S. How I praie you M. Firste as touching Plato let vs bid hym farewell for that hee is not onely an Academike and doubtfull of minde and vncertein in euery thing but also an Ethnike and nothing beelonging vnto vs Christians for the thinges that are without beelong not vnto vs as S. Paule sayeth But as touching the Valentinians who would bee called Christians they are sufficiently confuted and most sharply reprooued by S. Ireneus in the 2. booke and 7. chap.
bee framed also for that the principall and as it were the partes of the whole in respecte of this worlde as are heauen water earth are by our senses themselues perceiued to bee sphericall and rounde vnto whiche it is credible that the compasse of the whole worlde is semblable Howe bee it I can affirme nothinge certeinly therof since although wee admit that this part whiche is neerest vnto vs the lowermost of the circūference of the high heauen which wee beehold and which enuironeth althing be bending holow round notwithstandinge it maye bee imagined that the farthermoste and highermoste parte of the same circūference is of some other forme and I knowe ther bee some that haue saide that the vttermoste and farthermost part of heauen is shaped like a bell S. But in the Prophecic of Isay it is said that heauen is stretched foorthe and sprede abroade like a webbe or a curteine Isay the 40. chapter and 22. verse wherevnto also accordeth that which is written in the 104. Psalme and 2. verse wherfore it is like to a plaine whiche fourme is quite contrarie to a circle For a circle turneth about alwayes in his owne rowmeth M ▪ Uerily both the places which you haue alleaged declareth not the forme but the vttermost top or ende of world which therfore is said by God so to be stretched abroad and to couer the earth both that men may the more commodiously dwell vnder it as it were vnder a most beutifull and wide rough whereof it commeth that wee French men call all such couerings heauen and in our countrey language vn ciell and also to the intente that this is a veile beeinge sprede beefore mens eies they maye bee restrayned from the ouercurious and deepe entring into and searchinge after the secretes and misteries of God. S. But since the same holy Scripture hath plainly distinguished the higher place frō the lower in this worlde as in Isay the 55. chapter the 9. and 10. verses it cannot then seeme to bee sphericall or round For in a circle no part can bee called high or lowe forasmuch as all lines which are drawne from the center to the circumference are equall and the circumference it selfe which way soeuer it stande is alwaye vpwarde and in the higher place M. Of this wee will speake afterwarde and that more at large But nowe to set downe so much as shall bee sufficient to take all doubt out of your minde vnderstande thus much That by the rules of the mathematicians there bee indeede and are noted these positions of the higher and lower place and that they are indeede distinguished one from an other For the middle of the circle which they call the center is the lower place and downewarde and the circumference which is the vpper line which beeinge hollowe and meetyng togither conteineth the whole rounde space within the circle is the higher place and vpwarde so that in that these positions and kindes of places and differences are found in the world you may conclude that which you would to wit that the whole receite of this worlde is not sphericall and rounde The xiiii Chapter Whether the worlde haue one onely soule S. NOW forasmuch as this world is but one onely and since it is finite is it gouerned by some one speciallsoule onely whiche is dispersed throughout euerie parte thereof as it were in the members as wee see the soule to bee in a mans bodie M. That this whole world hath a soule and that one onely certain Philosophers of noble fame haue long since bene of opinion ▪ as Aristotle certayne other whose opinion hath hee folowed who wrote in this maner Firste heauen and earth and of the seas that flitring feeldes and fines These glorious starres this glistringe globe of Moone so bright that shines One liuely soule there is that feedes them all with breath of loue One minde throughe all these members mixt this mightie masse doth moue But this is not so much a solemne sentēce or saying as it is a great errour as S. Augustine teacheth in his booke against Felicia Aria ▪ the 12. Chapter S. Why so M. Bicause those bodies which are conteined within the gouenrment of one spirite and one soule are all one not diuided as is the bodie of euery one of vs not separate one from an other as a flocke and not one touching or neere ioyning to an other as are the fingers of a mans hande houses that stande one close to an other As for the parts of this bodie which wee call the worlde they are not onely distinguished one frō an other but separated also diuided frō thēselues by distāce of space For euery sheepe euery horse euery tree euery particulare mā is a part of this world yet are they so deuided by place mole of body and by circumscription of distance that it cannot bee saide that all and euerye one of these haue one soule onely For what would come to passe if it were imagined that in deed there were one onely soule and spirite in all these thinges For sooth this absurditie That the soule which is a certein simple nature and altogither spirituall were to be diuided as bodily things are and not by imagination onely Neither can this inconueniēce bee auoyded seeinge that those thinges in which that onely and singulare soule is conteined are in truth separate and diuided by place and determined euerye one of them by circumscription of their owne bodye Moreouer it shoulde folowe that all the partes of the world had life as the Sunne the moone the starres the heauē it selfe yea all the celestial bodies which notwithstanding S. Augustine moste plainely denieth in hys booke against Priscillia the 8. 9. Chapters that thys opinion of S. Augustine against the Mamches is true the effect prooueth For who woulde euer affirme that the starres had lyfe or reason Finally since of the partes of the worlde some bee mortall as brute beastes and certeine immortall as men howe can it bee that this singulare and one onely soule of the whole world can admit in it selfe qualities and conditions so contrarie and repugnaunt one to an other that it shoulde bee one parte of it mortall and another immortall specially beeing it selfe singulare one and simple not double and compounded Moreouer amonge such thinges as die someperyshe verie soone as wormes and flies some continue verie long as Ceder trees the Crowe and the Heart by this reckonyng it cummeth to passe that this soule of the world which notwithstanding in these mens opinion is onely one and in number singulare and a lone may bee called partly dead and partly a liue All which how foolish false and repugnant they bee you see S. I see indeede and I agree with you in that you doe moste truely deny that there is one onely soule and that in number singulare of this whole world M. Yea farther beesides the reasons aboue recited wee will lastly alleage this
earth For like as it is said in the 1. chap. and 11. verse of Genesis Let the earth bring foorth euery greene hearbe that beareth seede and let the water bring foorth fish the 1. chap. of Genesis and 20. verse so is it not likewise written and comaunded by God let heauen bring foorth the Sunne and the Moone but onely thus Let there bee lightes in the face of the open heauen Genesis the 1. chapter and 14. verse Whereby it sufficiently appeareth that the firste Heauen was not in suche manner the matter of heauenly things as it were a certein plentiful and frutefull Father of them neither that the matter of heauenly thinges was so ordeined as the earth was appointed by GOD too bee the matter and mother of earthly thinges S. Why would the Lorde haue thinges so diuersly to bee made out of those matters and that heauenly thinges should not bee made out of heauen as well as the earthly are out of the earth M. Not onely for this cause that like as they were made by hym of diuerse matter and differing in kinde although they bee all partakers of bodie so likewise it beehooued them to declare their vse and execute their duetie in diuerse maner too the ende their difference might bee vnderstoode and perceiued but also that God might reueale vntoo vs the better his mightie power and also his manifolde wisedome in so greate varietie of bringing foorth thinges So likewise in the framing of man onely God hath vsed one meane in creating his bodie and another his soule and by those meanes continually createth and maketh them notwithstanding that hee is able to make them both by one meane The. xxvii Chapter What is the fourme of the worlde S. HEthertoo concernyng the matter of the worlde saie sumwhat now if you can touchyng the fourme thereof M. I will doe so S. What therefore is the fourme of this so greate a woorke M. There cannot bee one onely and that substantiall thereof assigned For as I haue shewed beefore it is not possible that there should bee one onely and particulare soule of all the worlde whiche beeyng dispersed throughout euerie parte of the bodie thereof should wag stirre and mooue this so hugie frame and mole whatsheuer the Aristotelians and Platonikes doe suppose Likewise S. Augustine in his 7. booke de Genesiad Literam and 12. chapter doeth iustly deney that GOD is the soule of this worlde as of some liuing creature forasmuche as hee dwelleth aboue the bodie of the worlde and aboue euery Spirite and stretcheth beeyonde the endes of the whole worlde But God hath giuen vnto euery kinde his proper nature and forme ▪ whiche are disputed of in speciall treatises which are written of euery kinde of thyng As for roundenesse whiche some attribute to the worlde as the naturall fourme thereof it ought not too bee counted or called the inward or essentiall forme of the worlde but onely the outward and accidentall S. But dooeth not the Scripture attribute vnto the world partes and differences of situation as it were to a liuyng creature and countries and regions also distinct one from another M. It doeth so indeede but notwithstanding it prooueth not that there is but one and theself same fourme spirite and soule beelongyng to this worlde and that it is a liuyng creature S. Why so M. For forasmuche as there bee three kindes of bodies and ioynynges in composition one simple and continuall as a man the seconde ioyned and touchyng one another as an whole house the third disioyned as a flocke it is truely saied that euery kinde of bodie as it were a certeine whole thyng hath euermore some partes into whiche it is deuided and also sundrie differences of place and situation whiche may bee noted in it howbeeit euery kinde of bodie is not gouerned by one soule onely or one Spirite or one fourme but that onely whiche wee termed beefore simple and continuall as euery one of vs for example The xxviii Of the partes of the world and first of the Ethereall and Elementare region S. WHiche then bee the principall partes of the world whereof the scripture maketh mention M. They are of sundrie kindes For some bee integral which are the partes constituting the whole world whiche wee terme substanciall othersome distinguishing it onely and limited by reason of certeine vses and commodities S. Whiche are the integrall and constituting partes of the world M. There are briefly twayne for the most part proposed by the Scripture to wit the heauen and earth as it appeareth to the Colossians the 1. chapter and 16. verse and Genesis the 1. chap. and 2. verse and Isay the 1. chap. and 1. verse and in other places almost infinite although in Genesis the 49. cha and 25. verse heauen and the deapthes bee also reckned S. What did the Scripture then conteine vnder the name of heauen M. All that region of this world whiche is called by the Philosophers Ethereall and conteineth the celestiall and vnengendred bodies which continue and are not chaunged since the first day of their creation as sayth S. Peter 2. of Peter the 3. chapter and 4. verse S. And what vnder the name of the earth M. Not onelye this bodye and element whiche wee properly call the earth but also that whole region of this world whiche by the Philosophers is termed Elementare which conteineth in it such bodies as are engendred and are continually subiect to alteration S. Doe these twoo regions differ M. Yea very much both in name and effect In name for that the first is called heauen and this latter parte of the worlde is tearmed by the name of the elementes yea and that by the scripture For S. Peter in the 2. Epistle the 3. Chapter the 10. and 14. verses distinguisheth these words Heauen and y Elementes In effect for that this endureth and continueth in the old state the other is dayly chaunged and at one time is engendred and at an other tyme perisheth The first God hath reserued to himselfe the other hee hath giuen to the vse of man Psalme 115. and 16. verse The first as wee are taught shall perishe at the latter day but with sinale noyse and a lyght flashe of flame for that it consisteth of a fine and subtill nature but the other shall burne with great heat and bee dissolued with mightie rage of fyre eeuen in such sorte as looke how it hapeneth in our earthly material fire whē it flameth the stickes crack smoke sende foorth a vapour which proceedeth from the moyst partes therof so it is saide that the elementes shall glowe with heat and melt for that they are of an hard thick and clammie nature and not pure and cleane This difference also may bee obserued betwene the two partes of the worlde that the thinges which are in the first are the efficient principall causes of those thinges that are engendred in the other But the thinges that are in the second
proper and naturall force and signification of this woorde Create For in the 43. chap. and 13. verse of Isay the Lorde calleth himselfe the creatour of Israell which people notwithstandinge are knowne to haue beene borne of seede And againe in in the 65. Chapter and 18. verse of the same Prophet he saith Beeholde I create Hierusalem Whiche place whether it bee vnderstoode of the citizens or of the citie it selfe it is certayne that God made neyther of them without seede or matter but the men of the one and the Citie of the other For this woorde Barah is vsed in both places so that I am of opinion that wee ought not to sticke to religiously or percisely to the interpretation of one poore woorde Likewise they alleage this saying of the same Prophete Beeholde I create a newe heauen and a newe earth When as indeede the Lorde will onely renue these bodyes which nowe are heauen and earth and not make theÌ„ again of nothing M. It is writen in Isay as you say But these places doe plainly confirme mine opinion much lesse confute it For the woorde create is taken Metaphorically and wrested a litle from the proper significatioÌ„ wherby the power of God may appeare the greater more excellent in restoringe his people and holy Citie beesides al hope and other thinges beesides all ordinarie meanes For lyke as the thinges that are created are beesides the course of nature made of nothinge so likewise bycause the Lord promiseth that hee will restore and renue his people and Citie hee vseth properly the woorde of creating for that this which the Lord will woorke is as it were a new creation and a certayne wonÌ„derfull bringing foorth and generation out of nothinge Althoughe I will not deney but that the signification of this word Barah is ofteÌ„times translated and vsed more largely as when it is sayd Create a cleane hart within mee O God the 51. Psalme and 12. verse and againe The seat of the frowarde createth iniquitie Psalme 94. and 20. verse Of this sayinge and opinion of Sainct Augustine that I maye saye so much by the licence of so woorthy a man I doe not well alowe Who in his first booke against the aduersaries of the lawe and the Prophetes the 23 chap writeth thus And when there is anye difference made beetweene makinge and creatinge this maye bee the oddes beetwene those two woordes as I sayde that that is made which beefore was not at all and that created which is ordeyned of sumthinge that was beefore Hee distinguished those two woordes Make and Creat toto subtily whiche oftentimes are vsed one for an other S. How then should it bee M. Thus the Scripture plainly defineth to wit that God is the creatour of the world that is to say of all thinges that are who made framed brought foorth them all out of nothing and not out of any matter preexisting or made to his hande or whiche is coeternall with God himself or ministred vnto him by some other woorking God as the Manichees doe suppose For that opinion induceth two Goddes and in making twayne it leaueth none For either there is no God or there is but one Finally as saith S. Ambrose God should bee onely the diuiser of the figure and not the maker of Nature and hee had founde and receiued more than hee had made if there had bin any matter readie to his hande S. But there bee some that saie that this matter is signified in the scripture by this woorde Tohu where vpon afterward the Grecians and the Philosophers who receiued those thinges first of the Hebrues and of the Phenicians neere borderers to the Hebrues whiche thei haue written concernyng the beeginnyng of the worlde thei deuised this woorde Hyle by a small alteration of certein letters made according to the vse and proprietie of their tongue For this woorde Hyle saiethei signifieth among the Grecians as muche as a rude heape vnformed and as it were a certein moiste and waterishe yearth or quagmire or dregges out of whiche many thinges are engendred through the force of the heate whiche commeth vnto it From the whiche woorde Hyle is the woorde Hilys deriued which signifieth dregges and froath that is to saye a dirtie and moyst earth out of whiche many thinges doe growe in the Sea. M. I doubted not but those that goe about to defend the same errour of theirs concerning a firste matter pre-existing as though it were verie necessarie and they that haue throughly receiued the same doe deuise many suche foolishe fantasies But how small or none at all the affinity of these two woordes is Tohu and Hyle in writing of the Letters or rather how farre this is from the trueth your selfe doe see and it shall not bee needefull to seeke farther forasmuch as God is openly called the creatour of heauen and earth S. Yea God is termed Gosâ—he Ioâ—ser that is to say the maker and the fourmer as it is written in Isay the 66. chapt and 10. verse and Iob the 35. chap. and 10. verse and Isay the 54. chap. 8. verse as also in the 90. Psalme the 2. verse M. That was doone not rashly nor in vaine but to the intent to take awaye sutch errours as the spirite of God foresawe would grow afterward amongst men For there are twoo errours among men concernyng the beeginning of all thinges beesides the errour of the materiare heretikes For some thinke that first and alwaies there was existing a certein whole masse and that rude and confused whiche was the heape of all the principall partes and thinges of the worlde whiche now are existing and fourmed but then disorderly mingled togither which they call Chaos And this opinion Hesiodus folowed in his Theogonia whiche Ouid describeth in his Metamorphosis in these wordes Beefore the sea and lande were made the heauen that all doth hide In all the worlde one onely face of nature did abyde Whiche Chaos hight an huge rude heape and nothinge else but eeuen An heauie lumpe and clottred clod of feedes togither driuen Of thinges at strife amonge themselues for want of order due No sunne as yet with lightsome beames the shapelesse worlde did viewe c. This muche therefore they doe attribute vnto God that hee is the distinguisher trimmer and setter foorth of this so confused a Chaos mole and heape and not the creatour of it in time giuinge vnto it the first meanes of beeinge And therefore the Poet sayde There was as it were from euerlasting and not the same Chaos was made and created by god And for this cause they doe not call God the Creatour of the world but onely the beutifier and as Sainct Ambrose sayeth the deuiser of the shape and fourme thereof as though hee hadde giuen a certeine comlinesse and order vnto thinges that existed before and which had of themselues their owne proper strength and nature whiche hee accomplished by a certaine wise and apt distinction of them and by separating
face and foremoste part of the worlde M. Bicause like as our senses specially our eyes and countenance are placed in the face and foremoste part of the man so dooeth the light first rise vnto vs from that part of the worlde Whereby it commeth to passe that al men turne their countenances thither yea the brute beastes also of the fielde who in the mornynges as thei feede in the Medowes doe turne themselues towardes the risyng of the Sunne for light Thus by verie instinct of Nature all thynges doe acknowledge and confesse that this parte of the worlde is as it were the face eyes and fore part of the worlde S. Me thinkes that these thyngs in the worlde are distinguished rather in respect of vs than of Nature M. Truely the worlde is distinguished indeede specially in respecte of vs For in a circle properly and of it self nothyng can bee saied to bee on the right hande nothyng on the left nothyng beefore nothyng beehinde forasmuche as all partes of the circumference in that kinde of figure are equally placed And therefore Arnobius saieth well in his 4. booke The worlde of it owne nature hath neither right hande neither left neither high regions neither lowe neither beefore neither beehinde For whatsoeuer is rouÌ„d hath neither beginning neither ending And therfore when we say this countrie is on the right hande this on the left we speake it not in respecte of the worlde but of the place where wee ourselues are situate and dwelâ—yng This farre Arnobius Whereby it appeareth how foolishe and without grounde that opinion of the auncient Hetruscane Southsaiers is who iudged that lefte hande lightnyng lefte hand birde fliyng lette hande signes of heauen are of nature more fortunate than those whiche appeared in any other parte of the worlde For that whiche is on the lefte hande to mee maie bee on the right hande to you because these differences of place and situation are chaunged by the diuerse respecte and reason of men S. What doth the Scripture also note high and low in the worlde M. Yea plainely S. Where M. In the 11. chapte of Iob the 8. and 9. verses and Exodue the 20. chapter and 4. verse S. Is there then some place of the world high and some lowe M. The whole region of heaueÌ„ is called high and aboue and the earth lowe and beneath S. How proue you that M. Out of the aboue recited places of Iob Exodus whervnto also you may adde if you please the 6. verse of the 10. chapter to the Romaines and Deut. the 5. chapter and 8. verse and almost infinite other like places as Isay the 44. chapter and 23. verse and Prouerbes the 25. chapter and 1. verse S. But tell mee is it so of nature or consisteth it onely in the opinion of men that one parte of the worlde is high and another lowe M. Of nature surely for those thinges that are lyght do naturally tende vpwarde and goe towardes heauen and the thinges that are heauie downwarde and towardes the earth Moreouer if we consider the order of thinges God hath thus appointed that those higher thinges shall woorke vpoon these lower For heauen woorketh vppon these earthly thinges and wee perceiue the influences and effectes thereof diuersely and either it bringeth foorthe or distroyeth manye things vpon the earth as it were with to much rain or drought Wherefore Heauen both by nature of the place and also situation is higher than the earth Howbeit concerning this poinet S. Augustine grauely disputeth in the 83. booke and 29. question For hee demaundeth this question whether in this vniuersalitie and world which is conteined within a circulare fourme sumthing may bee called high and sumthing lowe seeinge all the partes thereof consist in equall situation M. Concerning the circumfereÌ„ce of a circle perhaps this question may bee demaunded which indeed was S. Augustines meaning whether the one part thereof bee high an other lowe for in truth in respect of themselues thei are al of equall situatioÌ„ But touching the thinges themselues which are comprehended within the Circle thys question is cleere and out of doubte For in euery circle the circumfereÌ„ce is the vpper part therof the centre the lower vnto which parte those thinges whiche come neerest of lowest like as those highest that are neerest to the circumference of the circle S. Which is the middle parte of the worlde M. The midest of the worlde may bee doubly considered either in respect of substance or of place Whiche the great Philosopher Plutarche first obserued in his booke of the contrarietie of the Stoikes The midds of the worlde in respect of substance is not some oâ—e certein body but many as y aier water with other that â—â—â—e partly of the nature of heauen and partly of the earth But the midds in respect of place is the earth as it is agreed vpon by those that holde opinion that the compasse and capablenesse of the world is of a round and sphericall figure For as they affirme the earth standeth in stead of a centre in coÌ„parison of the whole world Touching which opinion although they contende against it which dency that there bee any Antipodes or dwellers on the otherside of the earth right against vs as Lactantius and S. Augustine good and allowed auctours haue doone yet is it more true and credible that there are such Antipodes the rather for that there can bee nothing alleaged out of the Scriptures to confyrme the auctoritie of Lactantius and S. Augustine by and also reason plainely prooueth it to bee true to wit the situation of countries and the eleuation of the Poales The. xxxi Chapter The cheif end of the creation of the world is the glory and knowledge of God the creatour S. HEthertoo you haue declared the efficient materiall and formall cause of the world it remaineth also that you say sumwhat of the fourth whiche is the finall cause concernyng whiche I demaunde this question of you what is the finall cause of the creation of the worlde as the scripture noteth M. You did well to adde that clause as the Scripture noteth For there is none among the Philosophers except onely Plato and Trimegistus that although they wounder at the worlde doeth declare notwithstanding for what cause it was made and what is the ende of the creating or now subsisting thereof No not Aristotle himself although hee wroate about 30. sundry bookes more or lesse concerning the nature of thinges which bookes are extant at this day and tossed in all mens handes S. Tell mee therefore what is the ende of the creating and conseruyng of the world M. To speake breifly eeuen the euerlasting and immortall GOD himsef for the acknowledging and setting foorth of whose glorie it was created S. How prooue you that M. Not onely for that Father Ireneus writeth so in his 2 booke and 64. chap. but bicause the spirite of God teacheth vs so For firste the holy Scripture sheweth plainlye that