law Prou. 3.1 Galat. 2.10 therfor the law can not be among vs. S. Paul was admonished not to forgett the poore therfor the poore must haue bene absent from him Are thes consequences Are thes our ouerthrowes Yes truly the greatest that can be giuen vs. 87. And these words doe this in rememberance of mee condemneth all your Masses Rider that be said in rememberance of He-Saints and Shee-Saints and no Saints Mâ—ssale Printed at Venice 1404. as your Popes Bishoppes and in rememberance of Pilgrims Marriners women in trauaill and murren of beasts So that all the foresaid Masses said or sung in rememberance of Saints persons or diseases be abhominable vnlesse you will say which were damnable to thinke that those Saintes Popes Bishopes Pilgrims c. died for you But I will cease to speake of those abhominable abuses vntill I come to the controuersie of the Masse and yet then nothing but what shall be found in your owne bookes whose chapters leaues pages if not lines shall be quoted trulie without fraud or affection Another errour you would couer in leaping ouer the 26. verse in these wordes you doe shew the Lords death till he come Chrisostome Tom. 4. Hom. 27. vpon these words Facietis commemorationem salutis vestra beneficij mei This shewing of the Lords death consiste h in preaching and expounding some scripture wherein the communicants must be instructed of the horrour of their sinne the greatnesse of Gods loue the price of the precious merits of Christs blessed passion which is the remission of sinnes and our reconciliation to Gods fauoure through his bitter and bloudie passion VVhether Masses be sayd to Saincts And whether it be dangerous now a dayes to honor Saincts Fitzsimon 87. DId not you often tell vs that you had your Doctrin from the primatiue Fathers Yf it be so that you euer knew what S. Augustin sayd in this mater S. August 20. con Faust c. 21. how might you thinke thes your arguments vnchildish these are his woords Sacrificamus non martyribus sed Deo martyrum illo dumtaxat ritu quo sibi sacrificari noui testamenti manifestatione praecepit VVe sacrifice not to martyrs but to the God of martyrs in that only ceremonie which he commanded to sacrifice to himselfe in the manifestation of the new tstament I can not blame you to haue wincked at these woords as being litle fauorable to your imaginations and contayning all that I sayd befor of Christs instituting a sacrifice authorising preists to do the same ordaining the new testament at his Supper c. By our especial prayers to Saincts conioyned with this sacrifice we may not be sayd to offre the sacrifice it selfe to them When Caluin had abolished to his power other images of Christ and his Saincts he allowed his owne and to some repyning therat he aunswered Si quis hoc spectaculo offendatur Vita Caluini cap. 12. vt ne deinceps aspiciat oculos sibi eruat vel abeat cito suspendat se Yf any be offended with this sight that he may noe more behould it let him put owt his eyes or goe spediely and hang him selfe This man also when he had obserued diuers Protestants Hamsted Fox c. to canonize the fownders of protestantcie putting them in Calendars in redd leters c. he thought it tyme to mollifye his hatred against inuocation of Saincts intending that his and his fellowes glorie might not be finished by their death saying Etsi solus Deus inuocandus sit licet tamen homines ad opem nobis ferendam implorare Although God be only to be inuoked Calu. in Cateches cap. de oratione Luther lib. 2. colloq fol. 129. yet is it lawful to implore that men would also send vs helpe Luther thinking that where â—â—ch Saincts were honoured Sathan also might be comprised in the same Calendar and Lytanies he deuoutly inuoketh him saying Sancte Sathan ora pro nobis minime tamen contra te peccauimus Clememissime Diabole holy Sathan pray for vs For in noe wyse haue we offended thee most clement deuil c. Verily for my owne parte I intend not to exchange my deuotion from the ould Saincts toward thes new nor thinke it fitt to be done by others But by the premisses appeareth it is not so heynouse a mater to pray to Saincts as in the begyning of reformation was conceaued When you begyn M. Rider to speake of our abhominable abuses as you say and will alleage our books chapters leaues pages yf not lynes which hetherto was neuer performed as oft as any inconueniencie was imputed to vs as is often shewed let it be done with greater fidelitie then S. Chrysostome is produced in this place For vpon my credit nether hathe he any such Homilie vpon such woords nor any such doctrin in all his woorks as you adioyne to this citation Will the other threatned citations be in this sorte Tyme will discouer I proceed It had bene conuenient M. Rider that yow did shew some authoritie for your saying the shewing of the Lords death to consist in preaching and expownding some Scripture For Christ and his Apostles and the primatiue church practised the administration of this Sacrament befor any of the new testament was written And yf as you say Abraham communicated the ould testament also then wanted So that ether your Scripture here mentioned must not be any parte of the bible or els you ouerthrow your saying in the 46. number that Abraham in whos tyme ther was no Scripture communicated by fayth as also all other faythfull and that Christ his Apostles and primatiue Church were not of your persuasion in whose tyme nothing of the new testament was vulgarly exstant 88. Riders And this condemneth your shewing of Christ his death by such ydle gestures and dumbe shewes without anie glorification of GODS name or edification of Christ his people that I dare boldlie say and so God willing will plainlie prooue that from your first Introibo ad Altare Dei which is the beginning of your Masse vntill you come to the last line Ite missa est there is nothing but magicall superstition heresie idolatrie without veritie or antiquitie Now let the Catholickes iudge what wrong is done them when in stead of a confortable declaration of the Lords death they haue a histrionicall dumbe shew without true signification or sence warranted from Christs trueth And wheras you exclaime against vs for allowing tropes and Sacramentall phrases in the handling of this controuersie if you had not concealed this phrase This cup is the new Testament in my bloud the Catholiks might haue seene your error and that we in so doing onelie immitate Christ whom you should rather follow then the precepts doctrine of men whose precepts are no warrants for you nor me to build our faith vpon nor for the Catholikes to imitate And you with vs must either say that Christ vsed a double figure or else most
cupps that we are maintayned in glorie and therby many Catholicks beggered that Christs blood is an effect of our consecration that our diuinitie is hellishe and damnable and fitt to be taught in hell that we can not proue the benediction to belong to the cupp that the first Fathers neuer heard of such our doctrin To all which I can say no lesse The 93. vntruth then that all these being most vntrue may by liberal allowance stand vp for the 93. vntrueth Verilie neuer did I reade before to my knowledge so many disioynted maters shuffled together without method or measure but some one of them at least would haue relation to the subiect in discourse Now let all men ad women iudge what haue all these related points to doe with our controuersie of wyne to be the communication of the blood of Christ and bread to be the participation of his fleashe Or how do all these tergiuersations auoyd impugne or reproue that which is in controuersie 101. Chrisostome vpon this place calleth it the cuppe of blessing Rider because when we haue it in our hands with admiration and a certain horror of that vnspeakable gift Chry. super 1. Cor. 10. we praise and blesse him because he hath shed his bloud that we should not remaine in error and hath not onelie shed it but made vs all partakers of it In like sort did Photius and Occumenius expounde this word which wee blesse Photius Oecumenius which hauing in our handes blesse him which hath graciously giuen vs his bloud that is we giue him thanks or which we prepare when we blesse or giue thankes Now the Catholickes may see by the auncient fathers whom your selues doe brag of that they condemne your cup blessed exposition And the Catholickes may see aâ— in a glasse that wee ioine with the scriptures fathers in the true sence of these words The cup which we blesse and that your exposition is erronious and superstitious and therefore to be recanted by you and shunned by the Catholickes and my reasons be drawne out of the foresaid fathers not made on my owne fingers Fitzsimon 101. S. Chrysostom aduertiseth to all the world that you here deliuer the 94. â—he 94. vntruth S. Chrysost in c. 5. Math. hom 11. vntruth both because he hath no such matter as you inferr as also because els where he hath expresly the contrarie Saying Si enim vasa sanctificata ad priuatos vsus transferre peccatum est periculâ—m sicut docet nos Balthazar qui bibens in calicibus sacratis de regno depositus est de vita Si ergo haec vasa sanctificata ad priuatos vsus transferre sic periculosum est in quibus non est verum corpus Christi sed mysterium corporis eius continetur quanto magis vasa corporis Christi c. If then it be synne and danger to transferre sanctifyed note well M. Rider for euery clause of this speeche will wounde your profession vessells as Balthazar teacheth vs who drinking in sanctifyed chalices was deposed from kingdome and lyfe yf then to transferre these sanctifyed vessels to priuat vses be so dangerous in which not the true body of Christ but the mysterie of his body was contayned how much more the vessells of the body of Christ c. Here you haue sanctification of vessels such not to be prophaned Christ to be otherwyse with vs then with the Israelits and our vessels to haue his true bodye How lyke you all these toward your imaginations Photius you produce against your selfe by his saying that Christ gratiously giueth vs his blood Why then he giueth not only a figure of his blood Oecumenius hath noe such mater as neuer expounding any woord beyond the 9. chapter of S. Pauls epistle to the Corinthians ether of the second or the first And so is discouered the 95. The 95. vntruth vntruth Where are the promised citations of books and chapters leaues and lynes Whether you or I will or noe our dealings wil be iudged when we deale vnsincerly and impiouslie For other exclamations of such citations and discourses I can not thinke them conuenient when your dealings are so notorious only I will intreat the glorious S. Augustin S. Aug. l. 2. de Ciu. c. 1. â— 5. c. 27. to giue you your aunswer and let you be gone Quorum dicta contraria si toties velimus refellere quoties obnixa frome statuerint non curare quid dicant dum quocumque modo nostris disputationibus contradicant quam sit infinitum erumnosum infructuosum vides Facile est cuiquam videri respondisse que tacere noluerit Aut quid est loquacius vanitate Quae non ideo potest quod veritas quia si noluerit tacere etiam plus potest clamare quam veritas VVhose contrarie sayings yf we sayth S. Augustin would refell as oft as they with an impudent forhead neglect what they affirme so that any way they contradict our disputations how infinit toylsome and how fruictles it is you behould It is easie for euery one to see to aunswer what he cowld not conceale And what is more talkeatiue then vanitie Yet therfor it can not compare with trueth because yf it will not be silent it can exclame more then truth 102. First he saith that benediction blessing or thanksgiuing Rider is referred to him that shed his bloud for vs I hope you will not say the cup shed anie bloud for vs. 2. Secondlie this father saith that blessing God and praising God is all one and therefore when we say the cup of thanksgiuing we follow Christ Paul the Greek text and the olde fathers And when you translate it The challice of benediction it is flat contraire to Christ Paul veritie and antiquitie And there is as great difference betwixt your opinion and the old fathers faith as betwixt praising with mouth and crossing with fingers nay as much as betwixt your superstitious challice and our soulesauing Christ for so if you marke the fathers words the difference stands The text it selfe offers vs three things in a comfortable distinction and you would confound them with your new imagined transubstantiation 1. The first is Christs bodie crucified and his bloud shed with all his purchased benefits 2. Secondlie our communion fellow ship which all beleeuers haue in that crucified Christ and those soulesauing merits 3. Thirdly the outward seals of those benefits which are called The cup which we blesse and the bread which we breake to witnesse to the world and to confirme to our selues the fruition and possession of all those benefits Now if I should say that the bread cup being outward seals were our coÌ„munion with Christ the wicked would laugh at my folly though the godly would pittie my ignorance in the trueth or my malice against the trueth and the reason is this because the seals be things outward and the communion of Christs bodie and
wyne to what plundge would he be driuen You might heare him say it were vnpossible and contrary to the woord of God and fayth of the primatiue Fathers but for other proofe you should as soone wrest it out of a block And yf it could be proued that in them God had changed both substances and formes as it can neuer why should a general conclusion contrary to his late confession in the 144. number that learning did not allow such reasoning be drawen out of particulars When Christ resuscitated three dead he changed their substances making them of carcases to be liuing creatures Mat. 9. Mar. 5. Luc. 8. yet he changed not their formes So when he made bread to become his bodye he changed the substance of bread but not the external forme Contrarywyse when he was borne when he walked on the Sea when he became inuisible both at their seeking to throw him downe a rock and to make him king when he issued the sepulchre when he entred among his shutt vp disciples when he ascended he altered the natural formes or qualities of his body but not the substance therof Wherby appeareth that according to his pleasure and omnipotencie he may alter the one without th' other and as much and as litle as it pleaseth him As also that it is the 200. and it a blasphemous vntrueth The 200. vntruth that such change was or is impossible to his diuine maiestie Wherof peruse what is sayd in the examination of the Creede vpon the woord Almightie Wheras he sayth S. Augustin vrgeth this mater very euangelicaly by his former sentence it testifyeth very euangelicaly that M. Rider is very prodigious among Christians in not beleeuing according to the beleefe of the whole world or which is all one in the Catholick beleefe So that he might fill his papers he cared not how litle important or how much impertinent how litle to his benifit or how much to his discredit and confusion would be his sayings According to which his vayne of vayne writing he addeth that S. Augustin telleth flatlie that in the Sacrament of the Lords supper there is no miracle The 201. vntruth S. August in Psal 33. O what a flatt lie for the 201. vntrueth is vsed toward S. Augustin He that amplye and professedly testifyeth Christ to haue borne him selfe in his owne hands not metaphoricaly but according the leter deliuereth all other documents recorded in the 116. number how is he made to doubt of a miracle in the miracle of miracles Yet of S. Augustins opinion concerning miracles I would wishe Bellarmine to be reade c. 14. de notis Ecclesiae And yf S. Augustin had euer otherwyse surmised yet the same had bene an opinion repugnant to Protestantry Caluin lib. de coena Anno 1552. Idem l. de optima ineund concor rat fol. 97. Cal. l. 4. Instit cap. 17. n. 32. Ibid. num 24. n. 10. 11. Vide Eezam Creoph fol. 66. 67. For Caluin him selfe acknowledgeth hoc mysterium tam esse sublime vt nequeat ingenio aut cogitatione comprehendi this mysterie to be so supernal or sublime that it can not by witt or conceit be comprehended Agayne I am not sayth he ashamed to confesse this mysterie to be higher then that I can ether comprehend it with my witt or declare it with my tong A litle before he sayth it is a slandre of the aduersarie that he did measure this mysterie with the squyre of humain reason concluding to his difciple M. Rider in these woorde Christ truly with the substance of his fleash and blood doth giue lyfe to our sowls In these few woords who so perceaueth not many miracles to be conteyned plus quam stupidus est is more then a dolt I would be loath to haue bene such Godfather to M. Rider as his owne father in God maketh him selfe by giuing him such an vncurteous name for his denying miracles in this mysterie The Zuinglians professe no lesse Hoc mysterium tam esse sublime In sua Cōfessione Gal licana pag. 35. vt nostros sensus omnes totum naturae ordinem superet This mysterie to be soe highe that it surmownteth all our senses and all the course of nature What needeth greater confusion or disproofe then when his owne ghostly fathers pillers of his profefsion namely Caluin and Zuinglius contradict his assertions To the residue there needeth no aunswer If any other had M. Rider at such aduantages how much might he exaggerat his ouerweening him selfe in thinking his reach naturaly to haue attayned that comprehension of this Sacrament wherin others fynde such sublimitie as to acknowledge it most miraculous Eusebius recounted that in the persecution vnder Seuere Catho Priests lib. 5. cap. 1. that it was a great accusasion against Christians that they did eate mans flesh because they beleeued that they did receiue the bodie of Christ. 147. GEntlemen in that booke are fiue and twentie chapters Rider and not one word of this matter in anie of those and againe you mistake the time for Seuerus then gouerned not If it were vnder Seuerus it should then be in the sixth booke where you shal finde fortie fiue chapters yet there also is not one word of this Yet if you marke this that you bring against vs if it were to be found in Eusebius it maketh nothing against vs for though the Pagans were as grosse in the matter of the Sacrament as Nicodemus was in the matter of regeneration it is neither miracle nor wonder but a thing too common now and then And for true Christians to eate Christes flesh spirituallie by faith is or ought to be no miracle in the Church but the practise of the Church VVhether M. Rider vnderstandeth any hard Latin Fitzsimon 147. OF M. Riders skill in Greeke wherby he affirmed Christ to haue spoken greeke who neuer spoke other language during his abode in this mortal lyfe then Hebrue as not conuersing with Ethnicks or Gentils such as then the Grecians were as yf greeke and hebrue had bene all one as his knowledge in them both is all one we haue already treated His skill also in Scripturs Cowncils ancient Fathers Scholasticks Histories grammer ortographie is not obscurly notifyed At least he that glorifyeth of his grammarian trauailes he that made the latine dictionarie wherunto he added nothing formerly vnuulgar but ridiculous woords is he ignorant of the latin tong Let it appeare by his saying that Euseb hath not one woord in the place by vs alleaged how Christians were accused for eating mans fleash In the same place by vs cited thus relateth Euseb the forsayd accusation vsed by Infidels against Christians Thiesteas coenas incaestus Oedipodis falso commenti sunt they forged falslye against Christians to haue Thiestes refectiōs or suppers c. By which metaphor is insinuated their eating of childrens fleash because Atreas had compelled Thiestes for a heynous offense to eate this owne children Which figuratiue
true bread of life which as farre excelled Manna as the soule the bodie life death eternitie time and heauen earth NOw let vs see according to which of Christs natures 3. Point he is called our liuing Bread whether according to his manhood or godhead or both Christ calls this bread his flesh and Christ and his flesh are al one and therefore Christ and his flesh are all one and the same bread and as our bodies are fed with materiel bread so are our soules fed with the flesh of Christ and this flesh hee will giue for the life of the world which flesh is not Christs bodie separated from his soule as some of you imagine and vntruelie teach nor Christs bodie and soule separated from his diuinitie but euen his quickninge flesh which being personally vnited to his eternall spirit was by the same giuen for the life of the world not corporallie and really in the Sacrament as you vntruly teach But in the sacrifice of his bodie and bloud once on the crosse as the Scriptures record for the flesh of Christ profiteth not but as it is made quickning by the spirit Neither do we participate the life of his spirit but as it is communicated vnto vs by his flesh by which we are made flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone as hath bin shewed before Which holie misterie is represented vnto vs in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper and the trueth thereof assured and sealed in the due administration and receiuing of the same So this true bread spoken of in the sixt of Iohn which hath this spirituall quickning and nourâ—shing power is compleate Christ God and man with all his soule sauing merits And neither Manna in the wildernesse nor your round Wafer cakes vppon your supposed hallowed Altars Manna it could not be for it ceased manie hundred years before Your imagined and transnatured bread it could not bee because the Sacrament was not then instituted And so to the third point The manner how this true bread Christ must be eaten 3. Point THe meat is spirituall and therefore the manner of eating must not bee corporall for such as is the meat such must be the mouth but the meat is spirituall therefore the mouth must be spirituall as before you haue heard Fide non dente In the epistle to the Reader c. which thing being there handled befor out of holy Scripture Fathers and your Popes Canons I wille onelie referre you thither where you may vnlesse you bee malecontents be fully satisfied toucheing the true manner of eating Christ where you may find proued out of Gods booke that comming to Christ beleeuing in Christ abiding in Christ dwelling in Christ and to be clad with Christ and to eate Christ are all one so that out of everie one you might frame this or the like vnaunswerable argument How sacred Scriptures are exorbitantly depraued Fitzimon 37. ALas what miserie and impietie is euery lyne fraught with all in this his exposition Considre but how many falsifications of the text are here vsed First that some belly-gods had moued question whether Moises or Christ were more liberal in feeding men Ther is no such mater Nether also their commending of Moises greatnes For only Christ lightly mentioned him the residue not thinking of him by owght appearing in Scripture Nether do they coÌ„mend the bread from the vertue of it but only tell that their Forfathers had eaten thereof without any further relation Nether doth Christ deny Manna to be true bread for ther is no such woord The fowrtenth vntrueth The 14. vntruth besyd others wincked at shal be registred by M. Rider against him selfe Here he saith that our doctrine is that the body must first feed on Christ corporaly so it should be to approach to trueth then the sowle shal be therby fedd spiritualy How is this saying sutable to these words in his preface You teache the communicants to receaue Christ with their mowthes corporaly not with their faith spiritualy You make your selfe ridiculous by such palpable contradiction that we teache and that we do not teache Christ to be receaued spiritualy that we teache only corporaly and yet that we teache first corporaly after spiritualy Would not any other display all the figurs of rhetorick against this figure of a learned man He telleth after that Christ and his fleash are all one and all one bread yet will he tell you presently that nether of bothe are any bread at al. Next that some of vs teache Christs fleash to be Christs body separated from his sowle A fowle vntrueth and the fowler that vntestifyed after so many promises to haue all our dealings published by our owne prints books leaues lynes c. Then that the fleash of Christ proffiteth nowght but as it is quickned by the Spirit This he him selfe shall testifye to be the fifteenth vntrueth in these woords The 15. vntruth Christ would receaue a bloody speare into his syde before mans synne could be satisfyed This speare to haue pearced Christ after his death and not when his fleash was quickned by his Spirit is testifyed by S. Ihon saying that he had then deliuered vp his Spirit Ioan. 19. a v. 31. ad 35. the Iewes had informed Pilat of his death the Sowldiours Vt viderunt eum iam mortuum non fregerunt eius crura Sed vnus militum lancea latus eius aperuit when they beheld him dead they did not breake his thighes But one of the Sowldiours with a lance opened his syde Now make vp these two together that Christs fleash withowt his Spirit proffiteth nothing and yet that mans synne cowld not be satisfyed but after Christs fleashe was separated from his Spirit and then pearced I neuer in my lyfe nor I thinke any other noted such implications before in any booke hitherto printed But yet ther followeth more That we do not coÌ„municat the life of Christs Spirit but by his flesh Is not this to coÌ„tradict all benifit fullfilled to the Patriarches by Christs discension of Spirit without his fleashe Then saith he what is spiritual can not be receaued by a corporal maner Was ther euer any thing more contrarie to Diuinitie philosophie or reason First faith is spiritual yet it is by hearing Rom. 10.17 which is a corporal maner Regeneration is spiritual yet it is by maner of a corporal washing Yea God is a most spiritual Spirit yet the Apostle coÌ„mandeth vs to beare him in our bodyes 1. Cor. 6. Contrarywyse Christs birth his body made inuisible his issueing out of his sepulchre his entring among his shut disciples walking on the sea his ascension were verlye corporal yet the maner was not corporal but spiritual So that nether spiritual gifts are continualy conioyned with spiritual maners but often with corporal and corporal gifts often conioiyned with spiritual maners The sowle of man is a spiritual forme and not material and yet it is receaued
Christ wil be also in the same maner profitable Wherof see afterwards in treating of the Masse As also it is palpably demonstrated that the sacred body of Christ supplying the place of bread by his saying that bread was his bodie the substance of bread was no lōger extāt for being bread it could not be his body personaly vnited to his deitie vnles he had bene impanated as he was incarnated Rider 51 And heere I am sorie I must tell you so plainelie that you wrong greatly and grieuously Gods truth and the Queenes subiects in thus misalleadging this text 1 First by Addition of a word 2 Secondly by misunderstanding and misapplication of another word 3 Thirdly by omission nay plaine subtraction of a whole verse Addition For the first which is Addition you adde this particle it which is neither in the Greeke nor in your Romane Lattine Bible no nor in your Rhemish Testament nor euer seen in anie Doctor of antiquitie and this fillable altereth the sence and peruerteth Christs meaning and is added by you to maintaine that which the Text otherwise could not haue anie shew to beare Fitzimon 51. This sorrow of yours is as true as the rest For your toyle-some wreasting your brayns to aggrauat euery least shaddow of a fault and to runne after your simple imagination as a catt ronneth after hir owne tayle as if you had espyed a fault dothe shew you would be inwardly gladd to obserue any true fault But from my wil I assure you right and synceritie shall only proceed I trust also my skill in this mater will not be behynde Concerning the addition of it that it should alter the sence and peruert Christs meaning it maketh vp apparently the 23. vntrueth The 23. vntruth For what Christ tooke it he did blesse it he did breake it he did giue No more nor no lesse is signified with it then without it And for my part that it be omitted so it be conceaued I leaue to your choyse That it should be conceaued appeareth to all capacities Nether in so small a slipp will I want the defense and example of M. Rider him selfe in his actiue and passiue discourse following vpon the woord fregit which he construeth he brake it wheras but for the sense it should be said only he brake yf you may add it for better vnderstanding lawfully why would you reprehend me and that so heynously to haue inserted it 52. Secondlie you misunderstand and misapplie this word Blesse Rider Misapplication Rhe. Test. 1. Cor. 11. Sect. 9. for we say it signifieth to giue thanks with the mouth and you say to make crosses with the fingers wee say it was spoken by Christ to his Father you say it was spoken to ouer or vpon the bread and challice and that hee vsed power and actiue words vpon them we contrarie will shew out of the word it selfe that it hath no such signification VVhen M. Rider citeth or omitteth our Authors 52. YOu in your Dedicatory epistle Fitzimon and els where did vaunt that you would confound vs by our owne Fathers quoting our owne books our owne print c. This indeed is performed only when what is affirmed being truely vnderstood maketh nothing for you or against vs. But we complayne on you to your selfe that in true accusations which would make heynously against vs you cite no authour no bookes no points but as I sayd befor vpon your owne bare woord hauing misinformed you pursue your owne relation therby as it was behoofull for your cause eschueing your controuersie For examples sake who of vs tould you that Christs fleash giuen for the lyfe of the world is Christs only body seperated as you affirme from his soule Which of our books record that Christ with all his merits is receaued by infidels dogs catts and other beasts as you informe in the 43. numbre When did any of vs teache a carnal real presence of Christ in the sacrament before consecration as you affirme in the 47. numbre And when or were did any of vs certifie you as you here and a litle after reporte that to blesse is not to giue thanks or to pray but only as we vaynly and foolishly teache say you to Crosse with two fingers and a thumbe with mumbling woords and charming Crosses wherby we forgiue synns past and preserue that day from future dangers Why in these and the lyke are not our authours books pages and prints alleaged The true aunswear is qui enim mal◠agit odit lucem Ioan. 3. n. 19. for he that doth wickedly hateth light that his woorks may not be reprehended But good Lord yf you had intended as you lately pretended that you would proue your opinion true that Christ is not properly and litteraly but only sacramentaly improperly figuratiuely and misticaly in the sacrament why would you seeke digressios and by-maters of blessings charmings and mumblings and gallopp after them in so long discourse But since we must haue patience perforce without reason or remedie let vs wayte vpon our wandring knight who may aboue all writers of him selfe affirme out of Ouid Ouid. Nunc huc nunc illuc vtròque sine ordine curro Now here now there and both vnorderly I runne Rider 53. One part of the originall woord in Greeke signifieth in English Speech vttered with the mouth not a magicall crossing of or with fingers And the other Greeke word which must be iudge betwixt vs doth signifie to laude to praise and to blesse and blessing praising and thanksgiuing are all one as anone you shall heare Christ himselfe so to expound it and all the Euangelists and Paul agree in one congruence touching this matter against you How blesse blessing are vsed in Scriptures But first I will shew the simple how diuersly this word Blesse is vsed in the Scriptures To blesse God is to praise him and giue him thankes for all his mercies as you haue in Luke Luke 24.53 and the disciples continued in the Temple lauding and blessing God I hope you will not say they crost God with their fingers or consecrated him to make him more holie but praised him with their mouths For if you take blessing of God in that fingered sence then see the absurdities you fall into Ioh. 1.18 Ioh 4.24 Anthropomorphitae First against Scriptures you must hold that God the Father it not a Spirit but hath a bodielie shape that may bee touched and crost with our corporall fingers if this you hold ioyne with those auncient Heretickes of Egypt who held that God had a bodie and members as man had What it is for one mā to blesse another Gen. 27. Gen 48 Nū 6.23 Let your High priests of Rome and you low Priestes of Ireland learne of Aaron Gods High Priest how to blesse Gods people so cease to deceiue them anie more And the second absurditie nay blasphemie is this that you should make GOD who is
as deliuer bread to the hongry or to litle ones and the literal signification of deliuering is verifyed in Christs passion but not of breaking For he was deliuered for our synnes but I being able to say that he was also broken for vs in the B. Sacrifice of his body vnder the forme of bread and M. Rider denying such his sacrifice and not being able possibly to shew any other his breaking do you thinke that leauing to talke of deliuerie for breaking he knoweth what is with him or against him The amplifying of Christs promise in the present tence there being no promise in these woords this is my body which is broken for you sheweth such mates when they can gett a woord to wander against the trueth for Christ vsed then a present tence to testifye the efficacie of his institution of the B. Sacrament in which his body was presently deliuered inuisibly which was the next day to be deliuered visiblye therevpon they amplifie and descant at full wheras vpon the true and literal institution of Christ arcording the propre signification therof they walke so nicely Luth. tom 7. defen verb. caenae fol 383. as yf they were treading vpon egges Fearing sayth Luther to stumble and breake their necks at euery woord which Christ pronownced 83. In the first that Christs Rider birth and life though both innocent was not sufficient to cleanse my sinne In the second Christ would vndergoe shamefull buffets on the face pricking of thornes vpon his head piercing nailes into his hands and feete a bloudie speare into his blessed side before mans sinne could bee satisfied Gods wrath appeased Sathan death and hell conquered this our liuing Christ would haue his bodie broken for vs he would not leaue one sighein his soule for our sakes nor one drop of bloud in his bodie vnshed for our sinnes These comforts are expressed by this word broken which are not nor can be gathered by this word deliuered 83. In my Examination of the Creed in the 14. numbre Pitzsimon I haue shewed that euery meritt of Christ being of infinit valew had bene sufficient to redeeme a thowsand worlds and that his death and passion were suffred vpon his excessiue abundance of loue which was not content with what had bene sufficient but also powred owt it selfe beyond all respect and measure to the last drop of blood in his bodye for greater manifestation of his bountifull charitie toward mankinde How cometh my Warr-man and sayth that Christs death it selfe was not only not of superabundant affection but that beyond his death the very pearcing of his syde with a speare was necessary to clense his synne Which is blasphemie against all Scripture and Christianitie referring always our redemption to Christs holye passion I knowe not whence it coulde come to him but only to fulfill the saying of S. Nazianzen Inter se certant perinde atque non id metuant ne impijs erroribus sese constringant sed ne in hac re leuius tolerabiliusque peccent quà m alij They stryue among them selues as yf they had no feare to intangle them selues in impious errours but that euery of them be not behinde his compagnions in lesse offendinge Other aunswer is in the forsayd 14. number Rider 84. Another comfort is concealed from the Catholickes in omitting the 25. verse in these words Math. 25.40 Heb. 2.12.13.17 Ioh. 10.27 The newe Testament in my bloud Out of which euerie man may gather these comforts to himselfe by particular application First that I am not a straunger to Christ but one of his younger brethren and not onelie well knowne vnto him but also as well beloued of him which appeareth in this that hee did not onelie remember me in his last will but also most freelie and liberallie bequeathed vnto my soule and bodie most precious Legacies where wee may finde them registred most safelie kept in Gods booke and daylie pronounced in our Creed as remission of sinnes of both guilt punishment peace of conscience in this life at the latter day rising of my bodie from death and dust af erwards life eternall both to soule and bodie These Legacies be bequeathed and contained in this Testament which be hath not onely sealed outwardlie with Sacraments but also inwardlie with his bloud by faith to assure vs of the performance of his promise and therefore he addeth in my bloud so that all other Testaments Wils Buls or Pardons which are not sealed with Christs bloud but with lead or war are but counterfeit labels stitcht to Christs testament by some false forgeries of periured Notaries wherin they doe falselie promise remission of sinnes and the kingdome of heauen Fitzsimon 84. M. Rider shall pull off with his owne hands his maske of consolation by these woords the new testament in my blood and acknowledge to all Readers his contentment to be but forged and his cause and coÌ„science to be full of desolation by means of them First then he sayd in his 78 number that thes woords of Christ ordayned by one authoure haue one sense one sounde one ende with these woords of the ould testament this is the blood of the Couenant Exod. 24.8 But the sense of thes woords of Moises is that the ould testament was ratified by true and real blood substantialy sprinkled vpon the Israelits therfor the sense of Christs woords must lykewyse be yf as he saith they haue one sense that his new testament was made at his last supper and his true and real blood was substantialy powred into the mowthes of his Apostles which blood deliuered them after as S. Luke saith Lâ—c. 22.20 was to be shedd for them Now Sir what consolation haue you about yourt hart Are not you made your selfe to disguise your fayned countenance That Christ made his testament at his last supper it is first the confession of Musculus saying In the same supper being then nighe his death he made his testament How did Musculus ground his opinion because saith he Musculus in locis coÌ„ Cap. de cana n. 2. pag. 332. that a testament be made auaylably is requyred first that the maker therof be at his owne libertie for a slaue a seruant a sonn in his Fathers gouernement can make no testament This libertie had Christ at his supper and not at his death Also he must make executours so did Christ make his Apostles by this institution appointing them to dispense the grace of this testameÌ„t c. wheras ther was no such mater at his death I add that lawfull testaments are made by men befor their death when they are in good memorie and not at the instant of their death Which according to good protestantcie had great occasion in Christ our Saluiour whom at the tyme of his death they affirme to haue bene in desperation in torments of conscience c. as is assured in the 14. and 15. numbers of the Examination Is not this a good
committeth high treason against Christ though in deed in substance they receiue but bred and wine And as a man may be guiltie of treason in renting defacing or clipping the kings picture seale or coine though the king be not locallie in place so the wicked in the Sacraments which are Christ seales which being abused by them they are guiltie of Gods iudgements though Christ be not inclosed locallie in the bread and wine And what Chrysostome speaketh here of the Lords Supper the same hee doth of Baptisme and saith a man may be as well guiltie of the Lords bodie and bloud in cōtemning Baptisme which is but a seale of his washing in the bloud of Christ though hee neuer washed but in water and alleadgeth Paul Heb. 10 29 saing Of how much sorer punishment suppose yee shal be be worthy which treadeth vnder foot the sonne of God counteth the bloud of the testament as an vnholie thing c. These Fathers haue aunswered you and I hope will satisfie fullie the indifferent Reader Now three sorts of men are guilty of the body and bloud of the Lord. The first are plaine Atheists that are without God or godlinesse in this present world and such eate this bread vnworthelie and therefore are guiltie of Christes bodie and bloud 2. The second sort haue a historicall faith and a generall knowledge Thre sorts of mē guilty of the Lords bodie and beleeue that whatsoeuer is taught in Gods booke is true but they lacke apprehension and application to make a particular and holy vse of the same and therefore if such come and eate of this bread they are guiltie of the bodie and bloud of the Lord. 3. The third sort haue a liuelie apprehending and applying faith yet in their life they slippe and fall yea sometimes verie grieuouslie yet they awake and weep with Peter and repent for the same All these are said to eate vnworthelie but the first two sorts vnto their condemnation The third sort for their faults frailties negligences and vndue preparation are in this life of the Lord corrected least with the world they should be damned The two first sorts eateth onelie the outward elemēts the last sort eateth the bodie of Christ and drinketh the bloud of Christ And now to your second proofe out of Saint Paul VVhether it be treason to breake Images Fitzsimon 96. YF as he in this place affirmeth a man may be guiltie of treason in renting defaceing or clipping the kings picture seale or coyne though the king be not localy in place then consequently and necessarilie they must be guiltie of treason toward God who rent deface or clipp his pictures seales or coyne The necessitie of such sequel or inference is apparent considering that any abuse or contempt in the resemblance of a prince is not more iniurious to a prince then the lyke in a representation of God is to God Nether was there other cause why God did punish Oza 2. Reg. 6. 13. but prophaning resemblances of him contayned in the arke and all others that sacrilegiously misbehaued them selues not only toward his figures yea shadowes but also toward vesselles and ornaments belonging to them Now then tell plainly M. Rider will you stand to your words or recant them what say you Neuer thinke sayth S. Cyprian ep 73. because you haue once fayled that you should therfor blush to reuoke What say you shall his discourse be starling or noe Me thinke I behould you frowning fretting at me for seeming to thinke that you would euer reclayme Your conclusion therfor is that treason is cōmitted by iniurie to the pictures persons alyke Then woe and well away to all your brethren image-breakers Then woe and well away to VValer the murtherer vnder-minister of Swoords who hanged on a gibbet the picture of Christ crucifyed anno 1603. Then woe and well away to M. Rider who only to haue stones to build an ouen to bake bread to impouerish bakers of the citie not hauing idely or without price seuenten hondred barrells of corne yearly as he hath pull'd downe the fayre crosse in S. Patricks which all others his predecessors of that profession had permitted vnuiolated and to the same vse to haue fyer pull'd downe all the trees therin This sentence of his giuen against him selfe brethren made his owne sonn mense Maio 1604. when he attempted to pull downe ane image to be by Gods iudgment precipitated from a height and altogether crushed and at the same tyme his seruant to be stricken with the plague c. This sheweth that it is noe greater treason against a king to abuse and despise his picture then against Christ to prophane and distroye his images What needed this moth to intermedle with the candle of learning wherby his wyngs are so often scortched What needed him to implie that abusers of the communion according to his surmise being but a bare representation of Christ shal be punished with equal torments with such as nayled him on the Crosse Where then will the final Rende vous of Protestants be who haue abused other his representations images appellations as well expressing his death as the Protestant Sacrament I can not choose but say with the Poet. Ingratum genus vestrum quicunque forenses Admiramini plausus Euripides Hecuba ex versione Gasparis Stiblini vtinam non essetis mihi cogniti Qui nihil pensi habetis amicos laedere Modo dicatis grata multitudini O hatefull race of Mercenarie mates Searching applauds ô that I knew you not Not waying how you harme your frends throwgh hates So you the peoples itching eares befott But by the waye what meaneth this often tearming of Sacraments to be but seals and especialy by them who by their profession are bound to beleeue that they nether seale the body nor soule that they nether bring fayth nor confirme it that they are nether fruictfull nor needfull Yf otherwyse we be myndfull of Christ Ochinus apud Andream Iurgiewicium in bello quinti Euangelij pag. 102. Ochinus resolueth Spiritu Dei non Sacramentis fidem confirmari By the spirit of God and not by Sacraments fayth to be confirmed Yf seales be accepted in stidd of Sacrament because this woord is not in Scripture as your brethren before determine tell vs so playnly and we will not inforce you to grawnt that your Supper of the Lord which your great Doctor P. Martyr sayth in respect of the tyme it is receaued P. Martyr in 1. Cor. c. 11. pag 293. 294. and of your emptie stomacks should with greater reason be called a breakfast or dyner is a Sacrament Now as I tould you befor such hate is conceaued alredy among the Reformers against this woord Sacrament as it is conuenient you abstayne from it For they say Bruces sermons pag. 4. 126. VVestphal in apol pag. 5. Pag. 126. about the ambiguitie of this word are rysen many tragedies which will not cease whyle the world lasts that
are your oft promised citations of autheurs books chapters leaues lynes Will you neuer ryde otherwyse then lyke your selfe Could the Church of Rome called by S. Cyprian no very partial frend to the Popes supremacie S. Cyprian epist. ad Cornel. 45. epist. 55. Ecclesia matrix radix Ecclesiae Catholicae Cathedra Petri Ecclesia principalis the mother Church and roote of the Catholick Church the cheyre of Peter the principall Church Could Anaclet before S. Cyprian and both long before the Nicen concil Magdeburg centur 2. c. 7. col 139. Ibid. col 781. 782. attribut to the Romain Church primacie and excellencie of power ouer all Churches and the whole flock of Christ euen by testimonie of Protestants Could it sommon general Concils beare preheminencie in them confirme or desanull them could the Nicen Concil seeme to Beza Beza in trac triplicis Episcoporum generis ad Scotos circa annuÌ„ 1579. to make a way for the horrible papacie of Rome slyding on and vnderlay the seat of the harlot an ould marke of an heretick to speake thus of the Romain sea as appeareth in our first number that sitteth vpon seuen hills and yet possesse but the fouerth place in dignitie in the Nicen Concil Saye and wryte what you list M. Rider you neede no longer a visour your face is of proofe For gathering vntruths I may be thought forgetfull but in truth although I would fayne forgett them as I do often dissemble them yet I can not remoue them out of ether my mynde or eyes as long as I reade his booke so exorbitantly repleanished with them In the precedet number Regula in 6. Decretalium he attaynteth vs with a threefould errour wherof we being free for vnusquisque praesumitur esse bonus dones probetur malus euery one is to be accounted in the right vntill he be proued in the wrong Which is not done against vs that may well stande for the 96. The 96. vntruth vntruth Soone after he informeth as yf it were also proued that the B. Sacrament and Christs body do differr as much as outward seale and inwarde grace The 97. and 98. vntruth which maketh the 97. vntruth The 98. is in this number wherin he sayth the Concill calleth the B. Sacrament a mystical benediction no miraculous transubstantiation For it expresly affirmeth such Sacrament to be Carnem viuificatricem ipsius verbi propriam factam to be made a liuely fleashe and the very propre fleashe of the VVorde What is a miraculous transubstantiation yf this be not The 99. that the Scriptures and ancient Fathers The 99 vntruth and ould Church of Rome do specifie the receauing of the B. Sacrament to be only by the hands mouth and stomack of the sowle and not of the body The 100. that these two euidences are our owne disproofs The 100. vntruth The 101. that the Pope was not president in general concils The 101. vntruth ether by him selfe or his legate but other Bishops chosen by the Emperoure The 102. that the Popes legat The 102. vntruth had but the fouerth seat in the Nicen Concil The 103. that then the Pope of Rome was not Pope The 103. vntruth but only Archcbishop of which we are to dispute in the testimonye of S. Leo following not long after These strange exorbitant absurd treatises considered may not I worthely say Tom. 2. operum S. Athan fol. 262. as he in S. Athanasius Qui contentionis studio feruntur eorum insanum furorem nulla credo potest oratio cohibere sed vt mille quis eaue inuicta argumenta proferat veritatem quidem ille demonstrauerit at operarijs mendacij de ea minime persuaserit I beleeue noe eloquence can restrain there madde furie who are caried away by errour But although you alleadge a thowsand and those inuincible proofs you shall in deed demonstrat trueth but you will not reclayme the forgers of falshood Is not this verifyed in M. Rider What wonderfull exceptions supposeth he betwixt him and the cleere light striuing against him most forcible What arguments and proofs doth he struggle against and by what delusions and deceits One sayd truely Ioan. Maxen resp ep ad possess Quamuis verò semper inuicta manet veritas nunquam tamen aduersus eam se attollere desinit falsitas Although trueth alwayes remayneth vnuanquished â—et falshood neuer leaueth to assault it The flesh is fed by the bodie and bloud of Christ Catholick Priests Tertullian de resurrectione carnis floruit 200. that the soule might be sat in God 105 OVt of this thus you frame an argument as sometimes old Romane friend of yours did to maintaine your carnall presence Rider The soule is fed by that which the bodie eateth but the soule is fed by the flesh of Christ therefore the bodie eateth the flesh of Christ in the Sacrament I might as fitlie inuert this argument vpon you as a learned man of our side once inuerted it saying As the soule feeds vpon Christ so doth the bodie but the soule is fed by faith therefore the bodie is fed by faith which is verie absurd and improper yet as partinent and as proper as yours And heere you should remember the olde distinction of the fathers spoken of before The Sacrament is one thing and the matter of the sacrament is another thing Outwardlie the bodie eateth the Sacrament and inwardly the soule by faith feeds on the body of Christ As in Baptisme the flesh is washed by water as that old father saith in that place that the soule may be purged spirituallie so our bodies eate the outward Sacrament that the soule may be fed of God Againe it is not generallie true that whatsoeuer the bodie eateth the soule is fed by the same And if you would propound but particularlie this instance of eating onelie in the Sacrament then the argument proueth nothing standing vpon meere perticulers Moreouer the bodie and soule are fed by the same meat in the sacrament but not after the same manner For the bodie is nourished by the naturall properties of the Elements which they haue to nourish But the soule by the sacramentall and supernaturall power as they are signes and feales of heauenlie graces And we graunt that the soule is fed by the precious bodie bloud of Christ but not after a carnall maner as you say but spirituallie by faith Againe a mean Scholler in Gods booke may see this phrase is figuratiue and therefore the sence spirituall For how can a soule be fat in God will yee say it is a corporall fatnesse such as is proper to bodies I thinke yee will not I know you should not then this place is impertinentlie brought neither sauoring of sence nor suteable to that you alleadge it For if you would haue read the same Father in the same booke following page 47. printed at Paris 1580. he would haue told you so for saith he the
word which was made flesh which is Christ Deuorandus est auditu ruminandus intellectu fide dagerandus This word Christ must be swallowed whole by hearing must be meditated vpon or remembred by vnderstinding digested by faith Now you see Tertullian of your owne Paris print aunweres you expounds himselfe And seeing no man can better expound Tertullian his meaning then Tertullian himselfe therefore haue I brought him from your owne Catholicke Presse of Paris to condemne all Iesuits and Priests that shall set a litterall sence vppon an allegoricall phrase onelie to deceiue the simple plaine Catholicks and to abuse the godlie learned Fathers by an ignorant and sottish construction And now to the rest of your profes that follow The third parte of the second proofe Of Tertullian Fitzsimon 105. THe 104. vntruth that we frame any argument vpon Tertullians woord The 104. vntruth and especialy such one But since we are inuited by example thus we argue The Maior shal be your owne woords The faythe of the first fiue hondred yeares is the ancient true and Catholick faythe but that the fleashe and not only the soule was fedd with the body and blood of Christ was the fayth of the first fiue hondred yea two hondred within which Tertullian attayned the tyme of Christ yeares Ergo that not only the sowle but the fleash was fedd with the body and blood of Christ is the true and Catholick faythe The minor are the woords of Tertullian which herein are so playne that wofull and vayne is M. Riders witt and payne to strugle against them He telleth of an ould distinction that the Sacrament is one thing and the mater of the Sacrament is another Be it true or false are not the woords cleere that the very fleashe is fedd by the body of Christ and such distinction nothing pertinent to affirme or denye them Secondly yf the body outwardly eate the Sacrament and that as after in him followeth the body and soule are fedde by the same meat in the Sacrament and that he graunt the soule is fedd by the pretious body and blood of Christ How can it possibly be denyed but that the bodye also eateth the body and blood of Christ To affirme that we hould the soule to feede carnaly on Christ is in maner declared to ryde that is to forge and shamlesly to slaundre For we only teach that the soule feedeth on Christs corporal body not carnaly but realy and truely and yet spiritualy but not only spiritualy So that without any wrong it is to be accompted the 105. vntruth to say that we teach otherwyse The 105. vntruth Should not such an imputatiō haue two or three or at least one quotation of some one ould or yong noble or obscure sacred or prophane of our writers it being so oft promised so oft threatned But M. Rider will performe these promises in his printed books when he performeth other promises the frustration wherof in London was otherwyse incountred then in Dublin in Merchands written books When these be made Catholick that is not puritanicaly canceled without a benediction but Christianly marked with a fayre crosse then all other promises will also be more christian lyke accomplished and many a merchand reioyced and many a long expectation satisfyed But sayth he Christ recording to Tertullian is to be heard to be meditated remembred and beleeued and so Tertullian fayth he hath aunswered him selfe and his former saying that the fleash is fedde by the body of Christ All this he quoteth yet I doubt not very faythfully For I finde Tertullian printed at Paris to haue the booke of resurrection out of which my testimonie is brought so farr beyond the 47. yea and 407. page euen in follio that I can not make vnto my selfe any conceit how these last woords are sayd to be in the same booke following and yet but in the 47. page At this I stand not Only I craue all curteous witts and wysedoms to obserue how and whether at all Tertullian is made to aunswer him selfe and vs by this late allegation vnlesse he would suppose that euery thing aunswereth euery thing For yf what may be heard meditated remembred beleued could not be receaued corporaly then the Messias Christ our Saluiour could neuer be receaued in the blessed virgins womb nor into the howse or habitation of any other Yet our beleefe assureth the contrary and consequently the saying of Tertullian that our fleash is fedd by the body of Christ remayneth in his full vigor although those other words be true Nay rather they are more therby verifyed For yf Christ be heard or beleued his saying the bread to be his body should not be distrusted Could you be content to heare the former testimonyes auoyded by euery by and impertinent woord that they were mystical Sacraments Eucharistical and therefore not true and can you not accept lyke maner of aunswering in this place I referre you to Luthers opinion of lyke their wonted answering mentioned in the 47. number Although the former woords of Tertullian are insupportable to M. Riders clayme and that he strugleth in vayne against them yet I will second them with this conclusion out of the sayd Tertullian Acceptum panem distributum discipulis Corpus suum illum secit Hoc est Corpus meum dicendo Tertull orat de Antichristo The bread taken and distributed to his disciples he made it his body saying This is my body I would fayne behould M. Riders skill in wreasting these woords from our purpose with any shew of probabilitie His wonted maner of wreasting without probabilitie which posteritie will I suppose by his remembrance name ryding is as I thinke loathsome to his most louing frends to fynde in him and lewed to be followed by him Catholicke Priestes God hath left vs his flesh to eate and his bloud to drinke that we might be nourished by that Cyprian de Duplici Mart floruit 249. by which we haue been redeemed Rider 106. A Blinde man may see that you neuer read this in Cyprian your selfe or else that you vnderstand them not For Cyprian saith not God hath left vs his flesh but Reliquit nobis edendam carnem suam reliquit bibendum sanguinem c. he hath left vs his flesh to eate and his bloud to drinke I pray you pardon me to aske you which is the nominatiue case to the verbe is Deus no but if you had begunne seuen lines sooner as you ought in deed to haue done at Nemo maiorem charitatem habet c. you shold haue found the right nominatiue case that there might haue been not onelie a gramaticall concord but also a Theologicall harmonie and then the sence had bene plaine For it was hee that died for his enemies that left vs his flesh c. And that was Christ not God the father But you begunne after your accustomed manner in the middest of a sentence mistaking the nominatiue case to
in our 99. number How lyke you M. Rider this dislyke towards your womens scripturing But plead well for them make much of them for in my owne knowledge yow haue neede to seeke credit among them considering that few or none of them how base soeuer but disdayne the mariage with the ministers of the woord and accept of them only for want of others They might you say freely conferre touching maters of saluation Yf you meane in the Church S. Paul crosseth your saying forbidding women to speake in the Church it not being saith he allowed vnto them The 135. vntruth is that our Romain religion would haue no men nor women read Diuinitie God blesse vs The 135. vntruth How wysely this man discourseth yf this be affirmed in good ernestnes But because godly diuinitie of woomen or sound doctrin tending to Saluation may be knowen allowed by vs let these following assurances to this present purpose in controuersie for all lawful circuiting should haue a referencie alwayes to the centre testifie Saint Agnes euen by testimonie of S. Ambrose tould hir audience this document of diuinitie that corpus Christi corpori ipsius consociatum esset S. Ambros Ser. â—0 Paulus Neapoludiaconus de S. Maria Aegiptiaca the body of Christ was consociated to hir bodye Maria Egiptiaca requested befor hir departure diuini corporis viuifici sanguinis portionem in vase sacro parte of the diuine body and lyfe giuing blood in a sacred vessell Other you may fynde of the femal sex in Garetio Garetius in 3. classe attayning such diuinitie toward this mysterie that great protestant Doctours neuer could reache vnto The keeping away of certaine bookes you say to be our strongest tenure First I aunswer the phrase of tenure in that sense wherin at seemeth intended is new and impropre How soeuer it bringeth me in the memorie how you reprehending minister Hicoxe for keeping a Trull and he you for you know what you called him base and he called you counter Wherunto if you conioyne your woord tenure it may be forgotten how close the counter in London and you marryed together and diuers will or may thinke by such coniunction therof with tenure that his meaning was only that you song a counter in London and in Dublin reached to a tenure and your meaning only that he song a base and neuer could reache higher withowt any other mysterie contayned in your woords For my parte I leaue you in your sweet consort and will aunswer further to such strongest tenure The 136. vntruth that it maketh the 136. vntruth Nether shal you escape in this place from receauing a foyle at venerable Beda his hands saying in cap. 7. Prouerb refert Iuo p. 4. cap. 84. Soli ei conceditur haereticorum libros legere qui adeò solidatus est in fide Catholica vt verborum dulcedine vel astutia nequeat ab ea segregari He is only permitted to read hereticks books who is so founded in the catholick faith that he can not by craft or delyte of their woords be peruerted Also as I obserue among your selues you debarr diuers books of ours from reading as is knowen to euerie meane conceit ryfeling mens houses for them and forfetting all them you finde as Lords ouer all mens goods And the Lutherans do as carefully debarr your bookes in all their dominions Schlusselburg l. 3. art 4. de Th. Caluin sheweth that Caluinians debarr Lutheran books and Lutherans their bookes and bodies And the same to be done by other reformers against reformers appeareth in Gretser Praefat. de iure modo prohib lib. haeret Wherby is testified that we might as well as you or Lutherans debarr such bookes as are by vs knowen to be hurtfull if not against the wyse yet against the simple You know that I abstayne from discouering inconueniencies succeding in our contryes by vulgars intermedling in Scripture Whether cheefe protestants finde it very commendable Calu. in praesat nou test Gallici an 1567. or conuenient I appeale to these woords first of Caluin that he confessed Sathan hath gayned more by these new interpretours then he did before by keeping the woord from the people Secondly by Luther whose later experience is more to be accompted then first vnseasoned persuasions saying Luther l. 1. coÌ„ Zuing. Oecolamp â— Yf the world continue any longer it wil be agayne necessarie for the diuers interpretations of Scriptures now vsed that for the conseruation of the vnitie of fayth we receaue the decrees of Concils and flye vnto them By this â—ppeareth all tenure and cawtion vsed by vs concerning the vse â—r refusing of bookes among vulgar to haue bene deserued For the â—ther point that we would haue no men to read Diuinitie you mistake vs for Richard Hunn Puritan of whom in the 124. numâ—er who damned saith Fox vniuersities with all degrees and faculties You â—aue bound your selfe to the same verdict by making such the foremenn of your quest We create doctors of Diuinitie We found â—choles and lessons to attayne it All the vniuersities of the world â—re fruicts of our faith How then are we sayd to dislyke that men â—hould read Diuinitie wher is Diuinitie but among Catholicks Erasmus ep ad Fratres inf Germ testifieth Luther and Melancton to â—aue condemned all sciences as sinfull and erroneus Smidelin in â—rat qua candidatis licentiam concessit affirmeth the same hatred against degrees of Diuinitie among the Zuinglians Wicleph had a distinct â—rticle that vniuersities studies colleges degrees are Ethnical superstitions and diabolical Luther serm Sympos tit de studijs saith that â—â—udere hath stultum in the supin Whether these reformers or we â—e hindrers of men to read Diuinitie by these euidences may be assuredly gathered ignorance M. Rider was affected not by vs but â—y such repyners against scholes and learning That you would fayne bestowe a litle charitable chiding vpon vs to make vs more diligent should by vs be accompted a fauour For hetherto it hath had litle shew of charitie which you haue vsed against vs saying our religion is sandy superstition wicked and damnable heâ—esie and irreligion our consecration full of vncertaintie absurditie blasphemie our whole doctrin hellishe and damnable and fitter for to be taught in hell by fends then in earthe by Preists our selues but lyers deceauers hereticks idolatrers charmers and magitians c. Therfor we might be gladd to haue charitable mitigations of these greuous reproaches Yet I repeale my woord rather choosing for this cause your hate then your honours your coÌ„tumelies then your compassion Your often and vayne frequentation of another cupple of woords Praemoniti praemuniti only for their consonancie without all occasion doth argue there is litle stoare where such estimation is had of such friuolous repetition How often in speeche in letters in printed books haue I heard praemoniti praemuniti forwarned forfortified I will allowe your reflecting the mention of Iewish fables against our profession if
chosen who directeth thy aduersaries to fynde thee condemned and maketh thy condemnation for impugning their doctrin to be to them a hurtfull satisfaction Rider Berengarius 144. Lastlie you bring in poore Berengarius vppon the stage to beare his faggot and recant his error of the spirituall presence of Christ in the Sacrament which we haue sufficiently proued before to be by scriptures fathers and Popes the true presence And now you bring in siliee Berengarius his recantation too bee our confutation I pray you let me aske you but one question can a reason drawne from a perticular conclude generallie If it should I would reason thus with you Bonner Standish wih others preached stoutlie against the Popes supremacie in king Edward his daies therefore the Popes Supremacie is nor lawfull Would you admit this kinde of reasoning These Iurers be too young to gâ—ue euidence and too partial to be trusted with the triall of this Issue I thinke no no more doe we the other For shall one mans weaknesse inconstancie and fall from the trueth conclude generallie against the trueth God forbid But you will obiect and say it is not one man but three seuerall Synods But I pray you remember that subornation of witnesses and paching of Iuries done in Westminister Hall is most seuerelie punished in that most honorable Starrechamber and shall not the Fope and his followers be called to an account one day before the great Iudge Iesus for the suborning of witnesses and packing of corrupt Iuries to deface Christes trueth and to maintaine their owne forgeries The Catholickes demand a proofe out of Scriptures and fathers for the proouing of your Romane opinion touching Christs reall and corporall presence in the Sacrament and you bring in the Popes Stipendarie Chaplens gathered by the Popes suÌ„mons to vphold the Popes rotten declining kingdome and euerie one of them at least 1100. years after Christâ— ascention and one of them within this sixtie yeares to prooue a thing done a thousand years before Now I giue Irelands Catholicks this friendlie caueat not to cleaue to the Popes Romish religion but to Paules Romane religion and not to rest concontented wiâ—h the name of Catholicks vntill they haue the doctrine that is Apostolicall and Catholicke And now to your fift proofe being your last refuge and least helpe Berengarius his recantations and condemnations 144. FOr his first answer Fitzsimon to this recantation of the first late head of his opinion who could neuer fashion any monstruous body therto of adherents he sayth a particular doth not conclud a general Which being true what miserable conclusions hath he made in his whole booke When yf a figure was to be graunted in one woord therby was concluded that all the seÌ„tence was but figuratiue Yf there were lyke forme of speech and sownd of leters in the ould and new testament therby was concluded there was noe more liberalitie or substance in the new then in the ould yf spiritual sense was affirmed in any one sentence of Scriptures or Fathers therby was concluded nothing was literal Yf any one Prelat and any one booke yea the very Antiphonarie was worthy to be reformed the liues of all Catholicks was therby concluded to be lewed and all their doctrin deuilishe Yf any sentence yea impertinently were alleaged out of any Father the towne the prouince the Kingdome that region of the world Europe Africk Asia were inferred to hould the same although nether person nor place nor prouince of such Region as appeareth in our 60. number when Asie is made to hould an opinion without any of all Asie specifyed for being author therof is numbred What say you M. Rider can reasons drawen from a particular conclud generaly you insinuating that according to learning they can not Spitt out man let trueth haue once a cleane seat in your mouth confesse in plaine deed that they can not and consequently confesse that your inferences hitherto haue bene at least friuolous and vnlearned Secondly I reply that this recantation and condemnation of Berengarius was not particular the condemnation being by three whole Concils and the recantation being Calu. in vltima admonit ad Ioachim VVestphalum as Caluin confesseth by the parent of the Sacramentarian opinion in his owne behalfe and of his children in so much as thervpon to the tymes of the Albigenses and Ihon Wickliff few or none could be found taynted with that errour Secondly he accuseth Bonner and Standish to haue dissembled in their beleefe I thinke in my conscience the accusation is vntrue and the rather because ther is nether witnes nor authour besyd his owne crackt credit to auerr it But let vs suppose it to be true all that followeth therby is that they borrowed Puritanical dispeÌ„sations to them selues mentioned in the 99. number to do contrary to their consciences Deale playnly in Gods cause tell the world whether the late thousand subscribing Puritans haue not all of them drawen in their horns and swayed with the tyme. How many tymes did Latymer and Crammer recant vp and downe So then such did Puritanize Thirdly he answereth that subornation of witneses and packing of Iuries done in Westminister Hall is punished in the starr chamber therby implying that the Pops subornation of his stipendarie this is conceaued a good woord that it is so often repeated Chaplins shal be punished for condemnation of Berengarius To which I reply first out of S. Augustin to be an ould wont of Sectarists Quicquid ex eorum codicibus aduersus eos sonuerit S. Aug. 22. contra Faustum immissum esse a falsatoribus ore impudenti sacrilego non dubitant dicere VVhat soeuer against them selues out of their owne books or of their doctours deeds and recantations is alleaged that they doubt not to affirme out of an impudent and sacrilegious mouth that it is foisted in by deprauers I do not therby intimat that M. Rider is such vnlesse he be guiltie Secondly I would be instructed willingly in the cause of his knowledge how all the Bishops of the three concils wherby Berengarius was condemned are found to haue bene the Popes stipendarie chaplins Peter of Nicomedie is made the Popes pensioner as also S. Bernard and all that can be alleaged against Protestants But why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ipse dixit M. Rider sayth so Therfor it can not be otherwyse Yf you distrust him or his sayings you are inferred to be trayterous superstitious c. Thirdly how fyndeth he among his Spiritual reuelations that the Popes rotten kingdome declineth For as I shewed not long befor it hath to our seeming neuer in three ages formerly bene so farr extended as in this last and more and more foloweth on the same tenor Fourthly in what Chronologie findeth he that euery one of the sayd stipendarie chaplins liued at least 1100. yeares after Christs ascension The concil sub Victore 2. was in the yeare 1055. The Concil sub Nicolao 2.
can together be in many places Or was my voice ther without my person or was my agents for me none hauing accesse to know my mynde But this hyperbole or amplification of his came from feare and guiltie conscience because quod metuit auget that wich one feareth he augmenteth Seneca in Agam. Cic. pro Milone penam semper ante oculos versari putant qui peccauerunt and they alwayes thinke their punishment befor their eyes that haue offended He knew good occasion of fearing that all men did discourse of his confutation and so affirmed that I had done what I cowld not doe althowgh I would And as I sayd it is impossible that I showld vse sleights and delayes to make my woord good considering thes two requests the one to the L. deputie the other to the puritan Collegists that they hauing me in their hands would be arbitrers in our cause and being so impartial toward my profession yet that so soone I offered to stand to their arbitrement and any arbitrarie penaltie they showld denownce yf I did not make my woord good The leters to both contayned as followeth First it to the L. Deputie Earle of Deuonshyre verbatim in this maner Right honorable our most singular good Lorde occasion of my presuming to wryte to your honor is tendered by M. Riders booke in which it pleaseth him to specifie my name He hath chosen your honor and the rest of hir Maiesties priuie concil to patronize his labours and I also for my parte refuse not to abyde your honors censure and arbitrement VVhat Varus Geminus sayd to Augustus they that durst plead in his presence were ignorant of his greatnes and they that durst not of his benignitie I may conueniently inuert and applye to your Lordships they that aduenture to stand to your arbitrement are audacious toward your profession and they that do not are timorouse of your disposition and vprightnes VVe are at issue in a mater of fact as was lately in France befor the king betwixt both professions that they of vs are to be taxed for imposters who in our labours haue wreasted peruerted and falsifyed the primatiue fathers of the Church which may easely be discerned both by only perusing the volumes of the fathers and by verdict of all cheefe Protestants in the world whom wee vndertake to testifie the forsayd fathers to stand with vs against M. Rider Vouchsafe of your especial affabilitie but one halfe dayes trial and it shal appeare that ether he is of whom Homer latinized speaketh Ille sapit soluâ— volitant alij volut vmbrae or for his presumptuouse dedication of his booke to your honors that he deserueth to be treated as Aristo whom the Athenians punished for vnworthie â—reating their commendations or as the seelie Poâ—t whom Lucius Silla both warned and waged neuer further to wryte or lastly as Châ—rilus whose verses Alexandre considering and finding but seuen good adwarded for each of them a peece of gowld and for the residue soe many buffets I truely ame of S. Gregories mynde saying VVho althowgh weake wowld not contemne the teeth of this Leuiathan vnles the terror of secular power did mantayne them It is a duble drift for what these perswade by flatering woords those doe inforce with smarting swords Dayne noble Lord but to suspend so long the sword and fayntnes and falshod in this mater will soone be reuealed God almightie preserue your Ho to his and your glorie From the prison 28. Septem 1602. Your Honours humble client to command assuredly in Christ Henry Fitzimon This leter being deliuered within 10. dayes after that M. Riders booke came into light the most honourable Deputie being of feruent desyer to further the disputation sent for M. Rider shewed him the leter and finding him relenting from the point he sent me woord by M. Henry Kneuet his gentleman Vssher that yf I would in dede come to trial the only means to be to intreat them of the College vpon the credit of their cause and champion to sue for such disputation and they them selues to be Vmpyers A hard condition but necessarie in that place and tyme. So then in great distrust of others but without all suspition in my selfe for what enemie would betray another appealing to his fidelitie I wrote this lettre following to them of the College but indorsed to D. Challenor VVor. Cosin The Leter Great men in confidence of their cause haue resigned their conference and controuersie to vnequal iudges in sondrie respects Origen submitted his proceedings to ane Infidels arbitrement and preuayled against fiue aduersaries So Archelaus bishop in Mesopotamia by like arbitrer did vainquish Manes So lastly did the Israelits surmownt the Samorits By whose example I haue aduentured to appeale vnto and indure your and the Colledge adwardisement in this controuersie betwixt M. Rider and me that whither of vs hath peruerted dissembled or denyed the effect and substance of authors by vs alleaged concerning the consent of Antiquitie in M. Riders cause or myne must stand to any arbitrarie reprehension and condemnation it shall please you to denownce VVherfor I craue that it will please you to certifie whether you will daygne to be Vmpyrs to adward according to equitie and indifferencie VVherunto that you condiscend the rather I aduouch and so Godwilling will manifest that also all cheefe Protestants in the world do stand with vs in this controuersie confessing the ancient Fathers to be ours and opposit to M. Rider Let not my extraordinarie confidence procure any inconuenience or pulpit commotions and exclamations that posteritie may vnderstand our courses to haue becomed Christians I expect your awnswer committing yow to God with affectionat desyers of your happines 7. Nouemb. 1602. Yours to command in Christ Henry Fitzsimon To this leter I receaued a meere puritanical awnswer full of sugred affected woords vainly applyed and all the mater wreathed in obscuritie with this only parcel to the purpose Concerning the Iudgment that you would haue our College for to yeld The Ansvvere as tuoching the cause betweene M. Deane Rider and you prouided alwayes that you make vs noe partie when we shall see your books and haue some small tyme allowed to compare the same by the mercie of God we promise faythfully to performe it without all respect of person and partialitie to the cause And I would to God that what effect Eutropius fownde and those that vouchsafed them selues to be hearers of his iudgment the same such amonge any of vs might feele and fynde that do err from the trueth of God of Ignorance or of knowledge for the Lords arme is not so shronken in but that he may make vs yet of a Saul a Paul To whose grace I affectionatly leaue you Nouem 9. 1602. Your Cosin desyring in Christ you may be his brother L. Challenor Behowld the Puritans leter in stile and pointing of them selues to testifie to all the world that I being in prison not being able to
euangelium apud nos pessum iturum loco euangelij meros eosdemque egregios errores nos habituros All things demonstrat nothing more then that the gospell is perishing among vs and that in place of the gospell will remaine mere and enorme errors To the same effect it is to be vnderstoode that when the Puritans began to multiplie and dangerously to impugne parlament protestants so called because they frame their profession according to parlamētal statuts the sayd Parlament Protestants to make them odious reuealed principaly by two bookes all Puritan dissignes as well displaying what their consistorial discipline was as to what distructiō of all religiō it aymed One of these bookes was intituled the Suruey of the pretēded holy discipline the other dangerous positions By vertue of which booke and of others of lyke subiect as A treatise of Ecclesiastical discipline The Remōstrāce Quaerimonia Ecclesiae The 5. bookes of the lawes of Eccl. polit The aunswer to the abstract c. the cause of Puritans seemed so detestable to the state that euer since more and more they in their wysdomes thought good to suppresse them Now in the last yeare 1606. the vnquiet Puritans collecting all abuses that might be obiected in the profession of Parlament Protestants they haue dedicated their sayd booke to his Maiestie appealing to his oath by the great name of the Lord In praefatione pag. 23. that he would defend according his power all the dayes of his lyfe vnder the paine contained in the law and danger both of bodie and sowle in the day of Gods fearfull iudgment the altogether Puritanical liturgie of Scotland This booke in requital of the former Seruey against them they haue also named A Suruey of the booke of common prayer Now to our former purpose that Protestancie and Puritancie are together decaying is auerred in this new Suruey First Pag. 160. they relate that the late Archbishop of Canturburie vpon remorse vttered these woords Good Lord when shall we know what to trust to And that suddenly he was surprised with a palsie was caried from the cowrt and died shortly after A plaine demonstration that all their profession hetherto inuented wanteth all assurance and fadeth awaye lyke a smoake Breefely in the sayd Suruey the Puritans acknowledg their owne delusions also to be at a non plus saying The tymes decline fast to Poperie these tymes be declining to Poperie Pag. 52. Pag. 105. Wheras therfor their threats of our decaie are but lyke the dying candle which befor quenching casteth out greatest flamms in the name of God I. Ioan. 2.24 Galat. 1.9 that which you haue heard from the begining as S. Iohn aduiseth let it remaine in you To which S. Paul accordeth Yf any preach otherwyse then you haue alredie receaued be be accursed For yf you be wyse you will not for any threats exchange the suer fundation and rock against which the gates of hell shall neuer preuayle for the sandie foolish mans choise which for rayne falling theron for wynde blowing Mat. 16.16 Mat. 7.27 and fludds coming is ruined and surmounted Such as is this new inuisible profession by the rayne of mans will lyke a figure formed in sand defaced and by wynds of opposition and fludds of obliuion vppon the point to be vtterly ouerwhelmed So that their Church which they sayd first was inuisible because they could produce noe predecessors among Christians that euer had beleeued as they did being now againe by their owne confession vanishing out of sight this epigramme should be allowed to be after a short tyme true You hould your church inuisible til Luthers tyme with Luther also hath it lost all bewties prime And now inuisible it growes with Luther dead so inuisible the membres and the head Inuisible in dede they are as deepe in hell for vtter darknes darkneth all that there do dwell So first it was obscure as fetcht from lightles pitt t is so againe as drownd where Lucifer doth sitt 5. Reg. 1. 5. 9. 19. Yf your Ministers and Promotors lyke Adonias befor their tyme haue furnished them selues insolently they are not therfor greatly to be maligned For that sinners by impietie come often to welth Psal 72.12 the Prophet Dauid fortould saying Ecce ipsi peccatores abundantes in seculo obtinuerunt diuitias Behowld the very sinners and abownding in the world haue obtained riches Vpon which place sayth S. Augustin S. Aug. in Psal 72. Quot sunt quila sciuijs vt boues vaccae ad iugulum tendunt canentes saltantes parant iter ad infernum How many are they that by riot as oxen and cowes do march to their destruction and singing Prou. 1.33 and dawnsing do dispose their voiage to hell Prosperitie of fooles will destroie them sayth the prouerb For as followeth in the wyseman Sap. 14. 28. ether while they reioyce they are madd or truely they fortell lies In their madnes they blaspheme God and his saincts and calumniat his people In their predictions of lies among others may be numbred yf they tell that you will apostat from religion honor them as true pastors defie papistrie and that so doing you will doe according to the gospell They occasion me to remembre one Selius in Martial who inferred there was no God because forsooth that he often blaspheming him yet therby liued in greater prosperitie Nullos esse Deos inane coelum Martial li. 4. epig◠affirmat Selius probatque quod se Factum dum negat haec videt beatum No God heauen vayne affirmed Selius and proud it for that he was prosperous denying them and alwayes glorious Cicero was able to say of such men Cic. l. 1. offic Adducuntur plerique vt eos iustitia capiat obliuio cum in imperiorum honorum gloriaeve cupiditatem inciderint The most of such are forgetfull of equitie when they fall into the aspiring desyre of rule honors and glorie So that they doe but according to the wont of arrogant people when they insult vpon vayne expectations I wish for their creditours sake that it be neuer heard what Caluin well experienced in the lyke of him selfe and his brethren writeth of his felowe Ministers I will faythfully translat part of his plaine declaration omitting the latin this tyme for breuities sake Alij ad captandum miri artifices nudatos relinquunt c. Caluin lib. de scandalis pag. 65. 66. Some of thē sayth he writing as I sayd of Ministers wonderfullie cunning to snatch leaue them forlorne in nakednes to whom they promised montains of gould Some what almes they receaued ether they spend it in whooring or play or other riot Some what they borrowed they consume lauishlye in idlenes And in these crimes they haue often assistance of their wiues Some vncleanlines insueth wherwith this awnswer shall not be defyled Only as I sayd I craue that our Ministers and Catchpowls defraud not their creditors Afflicted Catholicks 4.