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book_n body_n bread_n wine_n 2,739 5 7.9963 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A01532 A discussion of the popish doctrine of transubstantiation vvherein the same is declared, by the confession of their owne writers, to haue no necessary ground in Gods Word: as also it is further demonstrated to be against Scripture, nature, sense, reason, religion, and the iudgement of t5xxauncients, and the faith of our auncestours: written by Thomas Gataker B. of D. and pastor of Rotherhith. Gataker, Thomas, 1574-1654. 1624 (1624) STC 11657; ESTC S102914 225,336 244

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but_o he_o add_v withal_o that_o our_o faith_n inform_v we_o that_o the_o bread_n be_v christ_n body_n yea_o but_o say_v bellarmine_n that_o sentence_n be_v most_o absurd_a and_o impossible_a if_o it_o be_v not_o mean_v figurative_o in_o which_o manner_n augustine_n as_o before_o be_v show_v expound_v himself_o elsewhere_o 2._o do_v the_o father_n tell_v we_o that_o in_o this_o holy_a mystery_n we_o must_v not_o so_o much_o regard_v what_o our_o sense_n inform_v we_o as_o what_o our_o faith_n apprehend_v and_o do_v they_o not_o say_v the_o same_o of_o baptism_n and_o of_o all_o mystery_n or_o sacrament_n in_o general_n hear_v we_o one_o or_o two_o of_o they_o speak_v for_o all_o the_o father_n of_o the_o nicene_n council_n who_o before_o he_o allege_v 4._o our_o baptism_n say_v they_o must_v not_o with_o bodily_a eye_n be_v consider_v but_o with_o spiritual_a see_v thou_o water_n understand_v the_o power_n of_o god_n hide_v in_o it_o conceive_v it_o full_a of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n ibid._n and_o divine_a fire_n and_o then_o will_v they_o the_o same_o regard_n to_o be_v have_v also_o at_o the_o lord_n table_n that_o ambrose_n that_o this_o author_n and_o his_o associate_n so_o oft_o cite_v as_o make_v so_o much_o for_o they_o 3._o you_o be_v come_v say_v he_o to_o the_o font_n consider_v what_o you_o there_o see_v consider_v what_o you_o say_v etc._n etc._n you_o see_v the_o font_n you_o see_v water_n etc._n etc._n you_o see_v all_o that_o you_o can_v see_v with_o your_o bodily_a eye_n and_o humane_a aspect_n you_o see_v not_o those_o thing_n that_o work_v and_o be_v not_o see_v the_o apostle_n have_v teach_v we_o that_o we_o be_v to_o behold_v not_o the_o thing_n that_o be_v see_v but_o the_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o see_v for_o far_o great_a be_v the_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o see_v than_o those_o that_o be_v see_v believe_v not_o thy_o bodily_a eye_n alone_o that_o be_v better_a see_v that_o be_v not_o see_v so_o gregory_n nyssene_n bapt_v both_o the_o spirit_n and_o water_n concur_v in_o baptism_n and_o as_o man_n consist_v of_o two_o part_n so_o be_v there_o medicine_n of_o like_a like_o appoint_a for_o either_o for_o the_o body_n water_n that_o appear_v and_o be_v subject_a to_o sense_n for_o the_o soul_n the_o spirit_n that_o can_v be_v see_v nor_o do_v appear_v but_o be_v call_v by_o faith_n and_o come_v in_o a_o ineffable_a manner_n yet_o the_o water_n that_o be_v use_v in_o baptism_n add_v a_o blessing_n to_o the_o body_n baptize_v wherefore_o do_v not_o contemn_v the_o divine_a laver_n neither_o make_v little_a account_n of_o it_o as_o common_a because_o of_o the_o water_n that_o be_v use_v in_o it_o for_o it_o be_v a_o great_a matter_n that_o it_o work_v and_o marvelous_a effect_n proceed_v from_o it_o and_o a_o little_a after_o of_o the_o eucharist_n y_o the_o bread_n also_o be_v at_o first_o common_a bread_n but_o ibid._n when_o the_o mystery_n have_v sanctify_v it_o it_o be_v call_v christ_n body_n and_o in_o like_a manner_n the_o wine_n though_o it_o be_v a_o thing_n of_o small_a price_n before_o the_o blessing_n yet_o after_o the_o sanctification_n which_o proceed_v from_o the_o spirit_n both_o of_o they_o work_v excellent_o and_o so_o in_o many_o other_o thing_n if_o you_o regard_v it_o you_o shall_v see_v the_o thing_n that_o appear_v to_o be_v contemptible_a but_o the_o thing_n wrought_v by_o they_o to_o be_v great_a and_o admirable_a and_o so_o chrysostome_n speak_v of_o those_o word_n of_o our_o saviour_n 63._o the_o word_n i_o speak_v be_v spirit_n and_o life_n graec._n to_o understand_v say_v he_o thing_n carnal_o be_v to_o consider_v the_o thing_n simple_o as_o they_o be_v speak_v and_o no_o otherwise_o where_o as_o etc._n all_o mystery_n and_o then_o not_o the_o eucharist_n only_o be_v to_o be_v judge_v not_o by_o the_o external_a thing_n that_o be_v visible_a but_o be_v to_o be_v consider_v with_o the_o inward_a eye_n that_o be_v spiritual_o and_o in_o particular_a of_o baptism_n 7._o elsewhere_o the_o gospel_n be_v call_v a_o mystery_n because_o we_o believe_v not_o in_o it_o what_o we_o see_v but_o we_o see_v something_n and_o believe_v other_o thing_n 〈◊〉_d for_o that_o be_v the_o nature_n of_o our_o mystery_n which_o myself_o therefore_o and_o a_o infidel_n be_v diverse_o affect_v with_o etc._n etc._n he_o when_o he_o hear_v of_o a_o laver_n think_v it_o but_o bare_a water_n but_o i_o consider_v not_o the_o thing_n see_v simple_o but_o the_o purge_n of_o the_o soul_n by_o the_o spirit_n etc._n etc._n for_o i_o judge_v not_o the_o thing_n that_o appear_v by_o my_o bodily_a sight_n but_o with_o the_o eye_n of_o my_o mind_n again_o i_o hear_v christ_n body_n i_o understand_v the_o thing_n speak_v one_o way_n and_o the_o infidel_n another_o and_o as_o child_n or_o unlettered_a person_n when_o they_o look_v on_o book_n know_v not_o the_o power_n of_o the_o letter_n nor_o know_v what_o they_o see_v but_o a_o skilful_a man_n can_v find_v matter_n in_o those_o letter_n contain_v life_n or_o story_n and_o the_o like_a etc._n etc._n 〈◊〉_d so_o it_o be_v in_o this_o mystery_n the_o infidel_n though_o hear_v seem_v not_o to_o hear_v but_o the_o faithful_a have_v spiritual_a skill_n see_v the_o force_n of_o the_o thing_n therein_o contain_v nothing_o then_o in_o this_o kind_n be_v say_v of_o the_o eucharist_n but_o what_o be_v say_v of_o all_o sacrament_n and_o of_o baptism_n by_o name_n nothing_o therefore_o that_o argue_v any_o miraculous_a change_n more_o in_o the_o one_o then_o in_o the_o other_o nor_o do_v it_o follow_v that_o we_o will_v have_v man_n to_o believe_v nothing_o but_o what_o they_o see_v because_o we_o refuse_v to_o believe_v that_o that_o we_o see_v be_v not_o so_o etc._n we_o may_v not_o say_v tertullian_n call_v in_o question_n our_o sense_n lest_o in_o so_o do_v we_o detract_v credit_n from_o christ_n himself_o as_o if_o he_o may_v be_v mistake_v when_o 18._o he_o see_v satan_n fall_v down_o or_o 5._o hear_v his_o father_n voice_n from_o heaven_n or_o 29._o mistake_v the_o smell_n of_o the_o ointment_n that_o be_v pour_v upon_o he_o or_o the_o consecravit_fw-la taste_n of_o the_o wine_n that_o he_o consecrate_v for_o a_o memorial_n of_o his_o blood_n neither_o be_v nature_n delude_v in_o the_o apostle_n faithful_n be_v 18_o their_o sight_n and_o their_o hear_n on_o the_o mount_n faithful_a be_v their_o taste_n of_o the_o 9_o wine_n that_o have_v be_v water_n faithful_a be_v 27._o the_o touch_n of_o incredulous_a thomas_n and_o yet_o as_o 79._o augustine_n well_o observe_v deum_fw-la thomas_n see_v one_o thing_n and_o believe_v another_o thing_n he_o see_v christ_n the_o man_n and_o believe_v he_o to_o be_v god_n he_o believe_v with_o his_o mind_n that_o which_o he_o see_v not_o by_o that_o which_o appear_v to_o his_o bodily_a sense_n and_o when_o we_o be_v say_v to_o believe_v our_o eye_n ibid._n say_v he_o by_o those_o thing_n that_o we_o do_v see_v we_o be_v induce_v to_o believe_v those_o thing_n that_o we_o do_v not_o see_v in_o a_o word_n ibid._n rehearse_v i_o say_v tertullian_n johns_n testimony_n 1._o that_o which_o we_o have_v hear_v and_o see_v with_o our_o eye_n and_o feel_v with_o our_o hand_n that_o declare_v we_o unto_o you_o mentitur_fw-la a_o false_a testimony_n say_v he_o a_o uncertain_a at_o least_o if_o the_o nature_n of_o our_o sense_n in_o our_o eye_n ear_n and_o hand_n be_v such_o but_o these_o man_n will_v have_v we_o as_o 14._o the_o son_n of_o eliah_n speak_v to_o thrust_v out_o our_o eye_n and_o as_o the_o jewish_a rabbin_n say_v abuse_v 11._o a_o place_n of_o scripture_n to_o that_o purpose_n that_o a_o man_n must_v believe_v the_o high_a priest_n in_o all_o thing_n yea_o 2._o though_o he_o shall_v tell_v he_o that_o his_o left_a hand_n be_v his_o right_n and_o his_o right_a hand_n the_o left_a so_o they_o will_v have_v we_o to_o believe_v whatsoever_o the_o pope_n or_o they_o say_v though_o they_o tell_v we_o that_o that_o both_o our_o sight_n and_o sense_n inform_v we_o to_o be_v most_o false_a §_o 5._o but_o to_o make_v good_a in_o part_n yet_o his_o former_a glorious_a flourish_n he_o cit_v a_o place_n of_o hilary_n where_o he_o affirm_v that_o concern_v the_o verity_n of_o christ_n in_o we_o not_o speak_v as_o he_o here_o say_v special_o of_o the_o eucharist_n but_o of_o our_o union_n and_o conjunction_n with_o he_o in_o general_n unless_o we_o speak_v as_o christ_n have_v teach_v we_o we_o speak_v foolish_o and_o impious_o that_o there_o be_v no_o place_n leave_v to_o doubt_v of_o the_o verity_n of_o christ_n body_n and_o blood_n that_o the_o sacrament_n be_v receive_v cause_n that_o christ_n be_v in_o we_o and_o we_o in_o he_o now_o
than_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n the_o one_o of_o infinite_a the_o other_o but_o of_o finite_a worth_n whereof_o 4._o he_o render_v a_o twofold_a reason_n 1._o in_o regard_n of_o the_o host_n that_o be_v offer_v because_o christ_n natural_a be_v be_v destroy_v in_o the_o one_o whereas_o his_o sacramental_a be_v only_o be_v destroy_v in_o the_o other_o 2._o in_o regard_n of_o the_o person_n offer_v or_o the_o offerer_n because_o he_o be_v offer_v immediate_o in_o the_o one_o whereas_o he_o be_v offer_v by_o a_o minister_n or_o priest_n in_o the_o other_o and_o yet_o this_o fellow_n tell_v we_o that_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n be_v not_o distinct_a from_o he_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o cross_n but_o be_v the_o same_o both_o in_o the_o host_n and_o the_o chief_a offerer_n thereof_o these_o thing_n hang_v together_o like_o harp_n and_o harrow_n as_o they_o say_v but_o our_o great_a doctor_n it_o seem_v for_o all_o his_o brag_a and_o bluster_a be_v but_o a_o novice_n and_o be_v not_o yet_o thorough_o acquaint_v with_o his_o master_n bellarmine_n doctrine_n in_o all_o point_n though_o he_o make_v use_v of_o he_o otherwise_o §_o 5._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o all_o christian_a nation_n in_o the_o world_n grecian_n rutenian_o armenian_n mozaribite_n catayan_o ethiopian_n indian_n etc._n etc._n conspire_v with_o they_o in_o the_o celebration_n and_o true_a belief_n of_o this_o sacrifice_n and_o sacrament_n 1._o this_o be_v like_o their_o jesuit_n trick_v to_o tell_v we_o of_o many_o strange_a miracle_n wrought_v by_o their_o father_n in_o the_o indies_n in_o goa_n in_o america_n in_o japan_n in_o china_n whither_o they_o know_v before_o hand_n that_o sciam_fw-la no_o man_n will_v go_v to_o disproove_v they_o and_o whence_o popish_a writer_n yet_o say_v 5._o they_o can_v hear_v no_o such_o matter_n yea_o some_o of_o their_o own_o coat_n 12._o sometime_o confess_v it_o be_v not_o so_o 2._o this_o fellow_n be_v either_o extreme_o impudent_a or_o gross_o ignorant_a that_o dare_v so_o bold_o and_o confident_o avouch_v that_o all_o these_o nation_n conspire_v with_o they_o in_o the_o celebration_n and_o belief_n of_o sacrifice_n and_o sacrament_n whereas_o it_o be_v common_o know_v that_o the_o most_o of_o these_o have_v their_o litur_fw-la gie_n in_o their_o own_o language_n which_o they_o have_v not_o communicate_v the_o people_n in_o both_o kind_n which_o they_o do_v not_o consecrate_v not_o wafer_n as_o they_o do_v but_o whole_a loaf_n and_o many_o of_o they_o the_o greek_n especial_o not_o unleavened_a but_o leaven_a hold_v the_o consecration_n to_o be_v effect_v not_o by_o the_o repetition_n of_o those_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o by_o prayer_n and_o supplication_n mingle_v no_o water_n with_o their_o wine_n use_v no_o elevation_n for_o the_o worship_v of_o the_o sacrament_n nor_o admit_v the_o popish_a transubstantiation_n as_o out_o of_o good_a historiographer_n their_o several_a liturgy_n and_o some_o of_o their_o own_o writer_n both_o m._n breerwood_n in_o his_o book_n of_o religion_n and_o language_n and_o th._n a._n in_o his_o discourse_n of_o catholic_a tradition_n at_o large_a show_n jeremy_n the_o greek_a patriarcke_n who_o he_o afterward_o cit_v affirm_v express_o that_o tradit_fw-la at_o our_o saviour_n last_o supper_n that_o flesh_n of_o our_o lord_n which_o he_o carry_v about_o he_o be_v not_o give_v the_o apostle_n to_o eat_v nor_o his_o blood_n to_o drink_v nor_o be_v they_o now_o give_v in_o the_o holy_a mystery_n etc._n etc._n and_o again_o that_o this_o bread_n when_o it_o be_v offer_v be_v common_a bread_n offer_v only_o to_o god_n but_o afterward_o be_v make_v extraordinary_a bread_n and_o in_o the_o council_n of_o florence_n as_o appear_v in_o the_o last_o session_n some_o controversy_n there_o be_v between_o the_o greek_a church_n and_o they_o about_o the_o transmutatione_n transmutation_n of_o the_o element_n in_o the_o eucharist_n nor_o do_v we_o find_v that_o they_o ever_o come_v therein_o to_o any_o general_a accord_n or_o agreement_n unto_o this_o day_n now_o where_o think_v you_o be_v this_o man_n face_n or_o his_o forehead_n that_o dare_v so_o confident_o aver_v that_o both_o these_o and_o all_o the_o christian_a world_n but_o we_o conspire_v with_o they_o herein_o both_o for_o opinion_n and_o in_o practice_n yea_o when_o he_o tell_v we_o to_o let_v we_o understand_v that_o he_o have_v be_v a_o traveller_n and_o it_o may_v be_v bring_v as_o little_a wit_n or_o honesty_n with_o he_o home_o as_o he_o carry_v out_o that_o he_o have_v see_v their_o celebration_n the_o same_o with_o they_o he_o show_v therein_o if_o he_o say_v true_a that_o he_o have_v see_v their_o celebration_n that_o against_o his_o own_o knowledge_n when_o he_o thus_o write_v he_o tell_v we_o a_o gross_a untruth_n and_o we_o need_v return_v he_o for_o the_o rest_n of_o they_o no_o further_o answer_v save_v that_o which_o be_v common_o say_v that_o potestas_fw-la far_o traveller_n may_v lie_v by_o authority_n or_o as_o it_o may_v be_v he_o hope_v rather_o that_o they_o may_v tell_v lie_v without_o control_n yet_o when_o we_o find_v he_o false_a in_o thing_n near_a home_n and_o by_o name_n here_o in_o his_o assertion_n concern_v the_o greek_a church_n he_o must_v not_o blame_v we_o if_o we_o suspect_v he_o in_o his_o report_n of_o of_o mozaribite_n cathaian_o indian_n ethiopian_n and_o other_o more_o remote_a the_o rather_o have_v as_o good_a card_n to_o show_v as_o any_o he_o can_v produce_v to_o the_o contrary_n §_o 6._o in_o the_o next_o place_n he_o run_v out_o in_o a_o idle_a discourse_n of_o martin_n luther_n as_o if_o he_o have_v learn_v the_o doctrine_n he_o teach_v in_o this_o point_n of_o the_o devil_n a_o frivolous_a fable_n refute_v long_o since_o by_o etc._n m._n charke_n answer_n dr._n fulke_n and_o other_o by_o the_o way_n glance_v at_o our_o manner_n of_o celebration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o a_o invective_n against_o the_o first_o author_n as_o he_o false_o term_v they_o of_o our_o religion_n with_o a_o apendix_n concern_v the_o mark_n of_o a_o church_n and_o of_o the_o church_n before_o luther_n concern_v all_o which_o for_o the_o present_a i_o say_v nothing_o but_o that_o of_o jerome_n laetam_fw-la asellus_n lassus_fw-la in_o via_fw-la quaerit_fw-la diverticula_fw-la he_o be_v a_o weary_a it_o seem_v of_o the_o work_n he_o have_v in_o hand_n and_o will_v fain_o slip_v aside_o therefore_o into_o some_o other_o debate_n that_o it_o may_v not_o so_o well_o appear_v how_o he_o stick_v in_o the_o mire_n here_o one_o thing_n they_o say_v at_o once_o do_v well_o and_o i_o suppose_v this_o will_v find_v he_o work_v enough_o for_o a_o while_n if_o he_o have_v any_o stomach_n to_o rejoine_v let_v he_o if_o he_o can_v first_o maintain_v their_o prodigious_a doctrine_n in_o the_o point_n present_a and_o then_o if_o he_o desire_v it_o he_o shall_v further_o be_v deal_v with_o either_o in_o these_o or_o in_o any_o other_o 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