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book_n bishop_n church_n see_v 3,056 5 3.9474 3 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A41211 An appeal to Scripture & antiquity in the questions of 1. the worship and invocation of saints and angels 2. the worship of images 3. justification by and merit of good works 4. purgatory 5. real presence and half-communion : against the Romanists / by H. Ferne ... Ferne, H. (Henry), 1602-1662. 1665 (1665) Wing F787; ESTC R6643 246,487 512

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of_o the_o cathari_n show_v that_o after_o this_o life_n end_v the_o condition_n be_v unalterable_a the_o receptacle_n seal_v up_o the_o crown_n give_v not_o so_o if_o soul_n true_o penitent_a go_v to_o purgatory_n for_o of_o such_o soul_n he_o speak_v there_o against_o the_o novatian_o thus_o much_o of_o the_o place_n of_o soul_n we_o come_v now_o to_o the_o second_o head_n purgatory_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a infer_v not_o purgatory_n that_o be_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a from_o which_o the_o romanist_n will_v infer_v purgatory_n and_o for_o scripture_n proof_n they_o give_v we_o 2_o machab._n 12.43_o a_o fit_a foundation_n for_o such_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n the_o book_n of_o all_o the_o apocryphal_o least_o considerable_a which_o will_v easy_o appear_v to_o he_o that_o lay_v together_o what_o the_o author_n himself_o say_v of_o his_o own_o work_n in_o his_o 2._o chap._n v._o 23_o 24_o 26._o and_o chap._n 15.38_o 39_o evidence_n enough_o of_o a_o mere_a humane_a work_n do_v by_o the_o labour_n of_o the_o brain_n not_o the_o inspiration_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n st._n aug._n indeed_o sometime_o call_v these_o book_n canonical_a according_a to_o the_o large_a acception_n of_o the_o african_a church_n but_o be_v put_v to_o answer_v a_o argument_n of_o the_o donatist_n ground_v upon_o the_o machab._n the_o machab._n example_n of_o razis_n he_o much_o lessen_v the_o authority_n of_o they_o as_o not_o to_o be_v compare_v with_o the_o book_n of_o the_o law_n and_o psalm_n legatur_fw-la aug._n contra_fw-la gauden_n l._n 2._o c_o 23._o quibus_fw-la dominus_fw-la testimonium_fw-la perhibet_fw-la tanquam_fw-la testibus_fw-la suis_fw-la luc._n 24_o 44._o recepta_fw-la non_fw-la inutiliter_fw-la si_fw-la sobrie_fw-la legatur_fw-la and_o the_o prophet_n to_o which_o say_v he_o our_o lord_n give_v testimony_n as_o to_o his_o witness_n but_o this_o write_n of_o the_o mach._n be_v receive_v of_o the_o church_n not_o unprofitable_o if_o it_o be_v read_v sober_o gregory_n bishop_n of_o rome_n cite_v a_o place_n out_o of_o these_o book_n 13._o greg._n moral_a l._n 19_o c._n 13._o excuse_n it_o because_o he_o do_v it_o out_o of_o book_n not_o canonical_a in_o moral_a l._n 19_o c._n 13._o again_o he_o that_o well_o consider_v the_o place_n will_v easy_o distinguish_v between_o the_o fact_n of_o judas_n and_o the_o mistake_a collection_n or_o misapplication_n of_o the_o writer_n of_o that_o book_n judas_n no_o doubt_n do_v pious_o for_o he_o see_v their_o sin_n or_o sacrilege_n as_o the_o cause_n why_o they_o be_v slay_v vers_fw-la 40._o fall_v to_o his_o devotion_n pray_v and_o send_v a_o sin-offering_n to_o jerusalem_n v._o 42.43_o not_o for_o the_o sin_n of_o they_o that_o die_v that_o be_v the_o mistake_n of_o this_o writer_n but_o upon_o occasion_n of_o their_o sin_n to_o divert_v the_o wrath_n from_o the_o rest_n of_o his_o army_n as_o joshua_n think_v himself_o concern_v upon_o the_o sin_n of_o achan_n josh_n 7.10_o also_o it_o be_v apparent_a that_o they_o die_v in_o their_o sin_n the_o thing_n they_o have_v steal_v be_v find_v about_o they_o which_o argue_v both_o the_o incogitancy_n of_o this_o writer_n who_o vers_fw-la 45._o suppose_n they_o die_v godly_a and_o the_o impertinency_n of_o the_o romanist_n who_o suppose_v they_o in_o purgatory_n whither_o they_o send_v none_o that_o die_v in_o their_o sin_n but_o only_o justify_v person_n they_o also_o urge_v 2_o tim._n 1.18_o for_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a whereas_o that_o prayer_n for_o onesiphorus_n suppose_v he_o dead_a at_o that_o time_n have_v but_o reference_n to_o the_o mercy_n which_o shall_v be_v impart_v at_o the_o last_o day_n to_o which_o also_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n do_v much_o refer_v and_o make_v nothing_o for_o purgatory_n and_o therefore_o all_o the_o testimony_n they_o bring_v out_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n or_o council_n for_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a be_v impertinent_a as_o to_o the_o prove_v of_o a_o purgatory_n there_o be_v other_o reason_n for_o such_o pray_n as_o we_o shall_v see_v a_o wilful_a pervert_n it_o be_v of_o that_o ancient_a practice_n to_o draw_v it_o off_o as_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v do_v from_o the_o first_o intent_n and_o purpose_n to_o fasten_v it_o upon_o their_o conceit_n of_o purgatory_n pain_n we_o shall_v see_v this_o better_a by_o the_o trial_n follow_v the_o ancient_n when_o they_o set_v themselves_o to_o give_v reason_n of_o the_o church_n pray_v for_o the_o dead_a prayer_n other_o purpose_n of_o such_o prayer_n give_v not_o this_o of_o purgatory_n which_o have_v be_v most_o obvious_a and_o most_o fit_a to_o stop_v the_o mouth_n of_o the_o adversary_n have_v it_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n but_o other_o reason_n they_o allege_v differ_v from_o or_o inconsistent_a with_o purgatory_n this_o appear_v by_o epiphanius_n who_o be_v put_v to_o it_o by_o aerius_n question_v the_o prayer_n make_v in_o the_o church_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o by_o dionysius_n in_o his_o hierarchy_n who_o put_v himself_o to_o answer_v the_o like_a question_n in_o both_o of_o they_o it_o appear_v that_o the_o intent_n of_o the_o church_n by_o those_o prayer_n be_v main_o this_o the_o instruction_n of_o the_o live_n and_o the_o confirm_v of_o their_o hope_n see_v first_o what_o epiphanius_n say_v he_o call_v this_o practice_n a_o seemly_a preach_n or_o publish_v 〈◊〉_d epiph._n har._n 75._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o what_o of_o the_o happy_a estate_n and_o rest_n of_o those_o that_o die_v in_o christ_n whereby_o the_o belief_n of_o the_o live_n be_v confirm_v and_o their_o hope_n raise_v what_o more_o profitable_a say_v he_o then_o that_o the_o live_a shall_v believe_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d they_o that_o be_v depart_v be_v in_o be_v and_o do_v live_v with_o the_o lord_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o again_o there_o be_v hope_n say_v he_o to_o they_o while_o they_o pray_v for_o their_o brethren_n as_o now_o in_o their_o peregrination_n or_o absence_n insinuate_v that_o albeit_o they_o be_v depart_v or_o go_v from_o they_o yet_o they_o shall_v meet_v again_o also_o to_o show_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d that_o which_o be_v more_o perfect_a which_o must_v refer_v to_o the_o state_n of_o the_o next_o life_n for_o say_v he_o while_o we_o be_v here_o in_o the_o world_n we_o offend_v often_o and_o last_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d because_o all_o man_n do_v offend_v and_o slip_v in_o this_o life_n more_o or_o less_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d therefore_o we_o pray_v for_o all_o even_a for_o patriarch_n etc._n etc._n to_o separate_v christ_n from_o all_o other_o for_o he_o be_v without_o sin_n altogether_o be_v not_o to_o be_v pray_v for_o but_o to_o be_v pray_v unto_o and_o worship_v these_o be_v all_o the_o reason_n he_o give_v of_o their_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a which_o we_o see_v do_v respect_n and_o provide_v for_o the_o instruction_n of_o the_o live_n and_o do_v not_o imply_v any_o such_o state_n of_o the_o dead_a in_o pain_n and_o grief_n as_o purgatory_n suppose_v but_o the_o contrary_a now_o see_v we_o what_o the_o romanist_n endeavour_v to_o pick_v out_o of_o word_n because_o he_o say_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a be_v profitable_a ibid._n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d epiph._n ibid._n although_o it_o cut_v not_o off_o sin_n all_o or_o whole_o they_o infer_v thence_o therefore_o it_o do_v cut_v off_o sin_n in_o part_n we_o answer_v as_o epiphanius_n do_v not_o say_v that_o so_o neither_o can_v he_o mean_v it_o for_o first_o we_o must_v suppose_v he_o will_v not_o answer_v impertinent_o to_o aerius_n who_o object_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d if_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o live_n altogether_o profit_v the_o dead_a then_o let_v no_o man_n live_v godly_a etc._n etc._n therefore_o epiphanius_n his_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d must_v answer_v to_o aerius_n his_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o must_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o sin_n of_o such_o person_n as_o aerius_n speak_v of_o such_o as_o have_v no_o care_n of_o their_o life_n but_o leave_v it_o to_o their_o live_a friend_n to_o pray_v for_o they_o after_o death_n now_o if_o epiphanius_n shall_v mean_v that_o prayer_n do_v in_o part_n cut_v off_o such_o man_n sin_n then_o must_v he_o speak_v according_a to_o that_o merciful_a opinion_n of_o mitigate_a the_o pain_n of_o the_o damn_a by_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o live_n with_o which_o conceit_n some_o of_o the_o ancient_n be_v taint_v as_o we_o shall_v see_v below_o but_o this_o will_v be_v nothing_o to_o purgatory_n second_o if_o his_o meaning_n have_v be_v as_o the_o romanist_n will_v have_v it_o that_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a do_v not_o cut_v off_o such_o man_n sin_n but_o that_o there_o be_v another_o sort_n of_o sinner_n
a_o appeal_n to_o scripture_n &_o antiquity_n in_o the_o question_n of_o 1._o the_o worship_n and_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o angel_n 2._o the_o worship_n of_o image_n 3._o justification_n by_o and_o merit_v of_o good_a work_n 4._o purgatory_n 5._o real_a presence_n and_o half-communion_n against_o the_o romanist_n by_o h._n ferne_n d.d._n late_a bishop_n of_o chester_n london_n print_v for_o r._n royston_n bookseller_n to_o his_o most_o sacred_a majesty_n 1665._o the_o preface_n be_v both_o provoke_v and_o invite_v to_o make_v some_o answer_n to_o mr._n spencer_n book_n of_o scripture_n mistake_v i_o assay_v to_o do_v it_o as_o brief_o as_o i_o can_v and_o it_o be_v needful_a i_o shall_v confine_v myself_o to_o the_o order_n he_o observe_v and_o to_o the_o place_n of_o scripture_n he_o examine_v as_o urge_v by_o protestant_n against_o the_o romish_a doctrine_n and_o practice_n and_o to_o those_o he_o allege_v as_o witness_v for_o it_o but_o see_v he_o boast_v in_o his_o preface_n that_o he_o will_v deal_v with_o the_o protestant_n and_o beat_v they_o at_o their_o own_o weapon_n scripture_n and_o so_o come_v not_o to_o the_o trial_n of_o antiquity_n which_o he_o pretend_v and_o with_o too_o much_o confidence_n presume_v to_o be_v their_o own_o therefore_o i_o shall_v add_v a_o brief_a survey_n of_o the_o ancient_a doctrine_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n as_o to_o the_o point_n here_o controvert_v that_o it_o may_v appear_v how_o they_o be_v worsted_n there_o what_o brag_v soever_o they_o make_v of_o antiquity_n but_o it_o may_v be_v say_v there_o be_v bock_n enough_o and_o too_o many_o which_o do_v but_o continue_v the_o controversy_n and_o keep_v the_o breach_n open_a more_o need_n there_o be_v to_o endeavour_v some_o close_n and_o to_o make_v offer_n of_o agreement_n true_o if_o we_o can_v conceive_v any_o hope_n of_o condescension_n on_o their_o part_n or_o perceive_v any_o intent_n of_o peace_n in_o they_o who_o we_o still_o find_v lie_v at_o the_o catch_n and_o lay_v hold_n upon_o all_o advantage_n which_o may_v promote_v their_o cause_n with_o all_o sort_n of_o people_n into_o who_o hand_n they_o thrust_v such_o book_n as_o may_v render_v it_o more_o plausible_a and_o into_o who_o ear_n they_o be_v continual_o whisper_v what_o may_v represent_v the_o protestant_n as_o guilty_a of_o schism_n and_o heresy_n thereby_o enforce_v we_o to_o break_v silence_n and_o to_o inform_v our_o people_n if_o we_o will_v not_o have_v they_o seduce_v of_o the_o cunning_a of_o our_o adversary_n to_o discover_v their_o dawbing_n and_o vain_a pretence_n such_o as_o mr._n spencer_n and_o other_o send_v over_o to_o the_o same_o purpose_n do_v use_n for_o deceive_v of_o the_o unwary_a peace_n among_o christian_n sure_o be_v the_o most_o beseem_v the_o most_o desirable_a thing_n in_o the_o world_n and_o will_v be_v consider_v how_o it_o now_o stand_v with_o the_o too_o much_o divide_v catholic_n church_n the_o great_a blessing_n and_o we_o have_v be_v sufficient_o teach_v how_o to_o value_v it_o by_o the_o past_a and_o present_a distraction_n and_o difference_n among_o we_o but_o when_o we_o talk_v of_o peace_n to_o they_o of_o rome_n they_o be_v ready_a to_o reproach_v we_o with_o physician_n heal_v thyself_o make_v up_o your_o own_o breach_n and_o division_n before_o you_o speak_v of_o be_v receive_v into_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n let_v they_o alone_o a_o while_n with_o their_o so_o much_o pretend_a unity_n our_o first_o care_n certain_o be_v to_o make_v peace_n at_o home_n and_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n as_o we_o see_v it_o the_o care_n and_o prudence_n of_o all_o state_n to_o guard_v the_o border_n against_o the_o foreign_a and_o common_a enemy_n to_o fortify_v those_o doctrine_n wherein_o the_o party_n dissent_v do_v agree_v and_o be_v as_o within_o common_a bound_n enclose_v and_o bless_v be_v god_n we_o have_v a_o great_a expedient_a for_o the_o restore_n of_o our_o peace_n by_o the_o return_n of_o our_o gracious_a sovereign_n unto_o we_o who_o be_v the_o true_a defender_n of_o the_o faith_n the_o great_a example_n of_o constancy_n in_o religion_n and_o of_o clemency_n in_o fogiving_n and_o forget_v injury_n and_o when_o we_o his_o subject_n be_v assure_v of_o the_o truth_n and_o religion_n which_o he_o defend_v have_v also_o learned_a to_o obey_v by_o his_o example_n and_o with_o mutual_a condescension_n and_o endeavour_n of_o peace_n to_o entertain_v and_o embrace_v one_o another_o then_o shall_v our_o heart_n be_v better_o prepare_v with_o a_o charitable_a compliance_n for_o the_o adversary_n abroad_o when_o soever_o he_o shall_v think_v it_o convenient_a to_o admit_v thought_n of_o peace_n and_o shall_v serious_o consider_v how_o we_o be_v all_o bind_v to_o profess_v and_o believe_v one_o not_o roman_n but_o christian_n catholic_n church_n we_o can_v but_o be_v sensible_a what_o hand_n they_o that_o stile_n themselves_o catholic_n have_v have_v in_o kindle_v this_o fire_n among_o we_o and_o bring_v fuel_n to_o it_o and_o we_o will_v have_v they_o be_v so_o oft_o convince_v and_o tell_v of_o it_o sensible_a how_o unchristian_a uncatholick_a a_o part_n it_o be_v how_o contrary_a to_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n but_o can_v they_o that_o be_v send_v over_o among_o we_o to_o blow_v the_o coal_n forget_v their_o instruction_n and_o vow_v of_o obedience_n and_o they_o that_o send_v they_o learn_v to_o value_v the_o peace_n of_o christendom_n yet_o what_o hope_n may_n some_o ask_v can_v there_o be_v of_o a_o accord_n in_o doctrine_n if_o we_o consider_v what_o pass_v in_o the_o german_a colloquy_n during_o the_o time_n of_o the_o trent_n council_n and_o observe_v what_o condescension_n and_o moderation_n appear_v then_o notwithstanding_o the_o intervention_n of_o so_o many_o nunioes_n from_o rome_n and_o the_o so_o much_o boast_a pretence_n of_o infallibility_n in_o that_o church_n if_o also_o we_o careful_o look_v into_o their_o controversy-writer_n and_o note_v what_o concession_n they_o sometime_o make_v in_o the_o point_n what_o mincing_n of_o the_o romish_a doctrine_n when_o they_o be_v put_v to_o it_o there_o may_v appear_v a_o possibility_n in_o the_o thing_n itself_o if_o peaceable_a man_n have_v the_o handle_n of_o it_o but_o when_o we_o consider_v on_o the_o other_o hand_n how_o all_o those_o endeavour_n for_o peace_n become_v fruitless_a and_o all_o the_o offer_v make_v at_o truth_n by_o moderate_a man_n in_o that_o council_n be_v silence_v and_o reject_v and_o notwithstanding_o all_o their_o mincing_n and_o concession_n in_o those_o point_n the_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n of_o that_o church_n go_v as_o high_a as_o ever_o we_o may_v imagine_v there_o be_v some_o overrule_a point_n of_o state-doctrine_n of_o the_o court_n rather_o than_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o command_v the_o rest_n and_o forbid_v all_o condescension_n and_o moderation_n such_o at_o least_o as_o may_v give_v we_o any_o hope_n of_o a_o tolerable_a agreement_n and_o thus_o it_o will_v be_v what_o ever_o we_o endeavour_v till_o order_v be_v take_v with_o he_o that_o pretend_v to_o the_o infallibility_n and_o exorbitant_a power_n of_o who_o we_o may_v say_v in_o this_o particular_a as_o the_o apostle_n do_v of_o that_o lawless_a person_n 2_o thess_n 2.7_o he_o who_o now_o let_v will_v let_v until_o he_o be_v take_v out_o of_o the_o way_n that_o be_v until_o he_o be_v reduce_v within_o the_o bound_n of_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n a_o glorious_a work_n for_o christian_a prince_n a_o work_n of_o great_a concernment_n to_o the_o peace_n of_o christendom_n but_o till_o that_o be_v do_v i_o will_v commend_v those_o consideration_n follow_v to_z all_z that_o delight_n or_o be_v incline_v to_o be_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o that_o church_n and_o in_o subjection_n to_o that_o pretend_a infallible_a and_o all-powerful_a head_n i._o why_o shall_v they_o desire_v to_o be_v under_o a_o lawless_a boundless_a power_n under_o a_o head_n so_o notorious_o perjure_v if_o this_o seem_v harsh_a let_v they_o serious_o consider_v what_o they_o in_o reason_n and_o conscience_n find_v to_o excuse_v he_o from_o that_o charge_n who_o bind_v himself_o by_o oath_n in_o the_o conclave_n and_o then_o in_o the_o papal_a chair_n hold_v himself_o loose_a from_o what_o he_o swear_v to_o observe_v who_o also_o swear_v to_o observe_v the_o canon_n of_o the_o ancient_a general_n council_n yet_o will_v not_o keep_v within_o the_o bound_n they_o have_v set_v he_o but_o challenge_n and_o exercise_n a_o universal_a jurisdiction_n to_o the_o overthrow_n of_o that_o government_n which_o those_o canon_n have_v fix_v in_o the_o way_n of_o the_o church_n ii_o why_o they_o shall_v so_o much_o desire_v to_o be_v of_o the_o communion_n of_o that_o church_n which_o while_o the_o court_n of_o rome_n be_v suffer_v to_o desine_fw-la all_o to_o
expression_n import_v not_o the_o advocation_n of_o word_n or_o plead_n but_o of_o deed_n and_o act_v the_o father_n set_v the_o one_o woman_n against_o the_o other_o the_o great_a good_a that_o come_v by_o one_o against_o the_o great_a evil_n that_o be_v cause_v by_o the_o other_o 3._o gen._n 3._o as_o the_o scripture_n set_v the_o woman_n seed_n against_o the_o effect_n of_o the_o woman_n transgression_n the_o meaning_n of_o irenaeus_n in_o call_v the_o bless_a virgin_n eve_n advocate_n be_v that_o she_o be_v a_o instrument_n or_o mean_n in_o bring_v forth_o the_o saviour_n of_o mankind_n the_o only_a mediator_n between_o god_n &_o man._n st._n liberaret_fw-la st._n ambr._n de_fw-fr obitu_fw-la theodosii_fw-la foeminam_fw-la visitavit_fw-la christus_fw-la in_o maria._n visitata_fw-la est_fw-la maria_n ut_fw-la evam_n liberaret_fw-la ambrose_n may_v explain_v that_o speech_n of_o irenaeus_n by_o what_o he_o say_v to_o like_a purpose_n but_o more_o clear_o christ_n say_v he_o visit_v the_o woman_n in_o mary_n mary_n be_v visit_v that_o she_o may_v free_v eve_n what_o they_o have_v out_o of_o the_o true_a origen_n speak_v only_o that_o the_o saint_n do_v or_o may_v pray_v for_o we_o which_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o as_o for_o invocation_n we_o shall_v presen_o see_v he_o declare_v against_o it_o extendible_a the_o intercession_n of_o saint_n depart_v for_o the_o live_n how_o far_o extendible_a such_o testimony_n as_o imply_v the_o saint_n intercede_v or_o entreat_v for_o we_o be_v frequent_a among_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o not_o only_o in_o general_n but_o in_o particular_a for_o those_o they_o know_v here_o both_o for_o their_o particular_a person_n &_o for_o their_o particular_a necessity_n or_o infirmity_n know_v to_o they_o before_o they_o go_v from_o hence_o for_o as_o they_o lose_v not_o their_o memory_n so_o they_o increase_v their_o charity_n by_o go_v to_o god_n thus_o 〈◊〉_d thus_o ignat._n ep._n ad_fw-la trallens_n salutat_fw-la vos_fw-la spiritus_fw-la mons_fw-la non_fw-la modo_fw-la nunc_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d ignatius_n my_o spirit_n salute_v you_o not_o only_o now_o but_o will_v also_o when_o i_o obtain_v or_o enjoy_v god_n so_o between_o cornelius_n and_o cyprian_n it_o be_v agree_v that_o which_o of_o they_o go_v first_o to_o god_n shall_v remember_v the_o other_o oratio_fw-la other_o cypr._n epist_n 57_o perseveret_fw-la apud_fw-la dominum_fw-la nostra_fw-la dilectio_fw-la pro_fw-la fratribus_fw-la &_o sororibus_fw-la nostris_fw-la apud_fw-la misericordiam_fw-la patris_fw-la non_fw-la cesset_fw-la oratio_fw-la let_v our_o love_n continue_v when_o either_o of_o we_o shall_v be_v with_o the_o lord_n and_o let_v not_o our_o prayer_n cease_v to_o solicit_v the_o mercy_n of_o the_o father_n for_o our_o brother_n and_o sister_n leave_v behind_o so_o chrysost_o in_o his_o oration_n ad_fw-la illuminandos_fw-la to_o those_o that_o be_v to_o be_v baptize_v remember_v i_o say_v he_o when_o that_o kingdom_n receive_v you_o such_o say_n as_o these_o that_o avouch_v the_o saint_n pray_v for_o they_o they_o know_v and_o in_o general_a for_o all_o the_o church_n be_v often_o shuffle_v in_o by_o the_o romanist_n as_o good_a proof_n of_o invocation_n and_o sufficient_a to_o take_v the_o unwary_a that_o discern_v not_o the_o paralogism_n or_o inconsequent_a reason_v from_o such_o intercession_n of_o the_o saint_n depart_v to_o infer_v they_o be_v or_o aught_o to_o be_v invocate_v by_o the_o live_n that_o which_o they_o bring_v out_o of_o athanasius_n as_o a_o testimony_n of_o primer_n antiquity_n for_o invocate_a of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n be_v take_v out_o of_o the_o book_n de_fw-fr sanctiss_n deipara_n of_o the_o most_o holy_a mother_n of_o god_n not_o write_v by_o that_o holy_a father_n but_o by_o a_o much_o late_a and_o unlearned_a author_n and_o so_o reject_v of_o baronius_n with_o scorn_n but_o see_v the_o other_o athanasius_n other_o bell._n the_o script_n eccles_n do_fw-mi athanasius_n cardinal_n honesty_n or_o diligence_n who_o have_v censure_v this_o very_a book_n as_o suppositious_a and_o write_v after_o the_o sixth_o general_n council_n 300_o year_n after_o athanasius_n his_o time_n yet_o can_v cite_v it_o as_o he_o hitherto_o the_o first_o proof_n of_o our_o second_o general_n invocation_n testimony_n of_o antiq_n against_o invocation_n because_o the_o defender_n of_o invocation_n can_v bring_v no_o witness_n for_o it_o beyond_o the_o middle_n of_o the_o four_o age_n our_o second_o proof_n be_v from_o testimony_n exclude_v or_o deny_v such_o invocation_n irenaeus_n in_o his_o first_o book_n speak_v of_o heretic_n that_o have_v strange_a fancy_n concern_v angel_n attribute_v much_o unto_o they_o in_o relation_n to_o which_o he_o deny_v invocans_fw-la deny_v iren._n l._n 2._o c._n 25._o nec_fw-la invocationibus_fw-la angelicis_fw-la faciat_fw-la aliquid_fw-la nec_fw-la incantationibus_fw-la sed_fw-la purè_fw-la &_o manifest_a orationes_fw-la dirigens_fw-la ad_fw-la dominum_fw-la qui_fw-la fecit_fw-la omne_fw-la &_o nomen_fw-la domini_fw-la jesus_n christi_fw-la invocans_fw-la that_o the_o church_n do_v do_v any_o thing_n he_o speak_v of_o miraculous_a cure_n do_v then_o by_o invocation_n of_o angel_n nor_o by_o incantation_n but_o pure_o and_o manifest_o direct_v prayer_n to_o the_o lord_n that_o make_v all_o and_o invocate_a the_o name_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n fevardentius_n his_o gloss_n here_o will_v not_o help_v say_v the_o father_n mean_v invocation_n of_o such_o evil_a spirit_n as_o the_o former_a heretic_n use_v for_o if_o the_o church_n have_v use_v to_o the_o work_n of_o those_o cure_n the_o invocation_n of_o good_a angel_n the_o same_o father_n can_v not_o have_v condemn_v their_o invocation_n and_o so_o absolute_o deny_v without_o any_o mention_n or_o limitation_n of_o such_o use_n in_o the_o church_n all_o angelical_a invocation_n can_v not_o have_v bind_v up_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o church_n as_o we_o see_v here_o to_o god_n the_o father_n through_o the_o name_n of_o his_o son_n so_o afterward_o when_o cure_n be_v so_o frequent_o do_v at_o the_o monument_n of_o martyr_n the_o first_o and_o regular_a way_n be_v as_o here_o to_o direct_v their_o prayer_n to_o god_n through_o christ_n not_o use_v invocation_n of_o the_o martyr_n which_o be_v the_o abuse_n creep_v in_o by_o degree_n as_o we_o shall_v see_v below_o our_o next_o testimony_n be_v from_o origen_n out_o of_o who_o we_o cite_v some_o passage_n pontificem_fw-la passage_n sect._n 1_o num._n 4._o orig._n contra_fw-la celsum_fw-la l._n 5._o omnia_fw-la vota_fw-la deprecationes_fw-la &_o gratiarum_fw-la actiones_fw-la destinandae_fw-la ad_fw-la deum_fw-la per_fw-la summum_fw-la pontificem_fw-la above_o against_o angel-worship_n so_o be_v he_o very_o express_v against_o their_o invocation_n cognition_n invocation_n angelo_n invocare_fw-la absque_fw-la ipsorum_fw-la cognition_n notwithstanding_o that_o the_o angel_n be_v minister_a spirit_n as_o he_o acknowledge_v yet_o all_o our_o vow_n prayer_n thanksgiving_n be_v to_o be_v direct_v unto_o god_n the_o lord_n of_o all_o by_o our_o high_a priest_n great_a than_o all_o angel_n and_o he_o give_v several_a reason_n against_o invocation_n of_o angel_n because_o say_v he_o to_o invoke_v angel_n without_o know_v they_o better_a then_o we_o do_v as_o to_o their_o nature_n condition_n office_n be_v little_a agreeable_a to_o reason_n but_o say_v he_o if_o we_o have_v sufficient_a knowledge_n of_o they_o and_o their_o condition_n yet_o propi●ios_fw-la yet_o hoc_fw-la cohibebit_fw-la ne_fw-la quis_fw-la preces_fw-la ●udeat_fw-la offer_n nisi_fw-la soli_fw-la domino_fw-la deo_fw-la qui_fw-la omnibus_fw-la abunde_fw-la suffi●it_fw-la per_fw-la servatorem_fw-la nostrum_fw-la dei_fw-la fill_v they_o angelo_n habet_fw-la satis_fw-la propi●ios_fw-la this_o will_v withhold_v any_o from_o dare_v to_o offer_v up_o prayer_n to_o any_o save_o god_n alone_o who_o abundant_o be_v sufficient_a for_o all_o through_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n and_o because_o this_o will_v render_v the_o angel_n sufficient_o propitious_a to_o we_o and_o willing_a to_o do_v all_o thing_n for_o we_o if_o we_o so_o far_o as_o humane_a nature_n permit_v be_v well_o affect_v as_o they_o be_v to_o god_n service_n something_o like_o it_o be_v that_o s._n aug._n say_v of_o every_o good_a angel_n 55._o angel_n aug_n de_fw-fr vera_fw-la religcap_n 55._o in_o illo_o i_o exaudit_fw-la in_fw-la illo_fw-la i_o adjuvat_fw-la he_o hear_v i_o in_o he_o i.e._n in_o god_n when_o i_o pray_v to_o god_n in_o he_o he_o help_v i_o to_o the_o like_a purpose_n do_v origen_n reply_v again_o to_o celsus_n initium_fw-la origen_n l_o 8._o contrae_fw-la celsum_fw-la propè_fw-la initium_fw-la that_o prayer_n be_v to_o be_v offer_v up_o to_o god_n alone_o by_o his_o only_o beget_v son_n and_o this_o exclusive_a to_o angel_n because_o oppose_v to_o celsus_n plead_v for_o their_o go_v to_o god_n by_o their_o daemon_n for_o our_o saviour_n christ_n say_v origen_n deum_fw-la origen_n qui_fw-la ut_fw-la pontifex_fw-la ea●_n deferat_fw-la ad_fw-la deum_fw-la as_o high_a priest_n present_v our_o prayer_n to_o god_n the_o father_n again_o
to_o commend_v ourselves_o this_o be_v the_o most_o that_o fall_v from_o st._n aug._n yet_o this_o come_v short_a of_o what_o bell._n will_v have_v he_o say_v that_o they_o be_v then_o invocate_v at_o the_o altar_n for_o he_o have_v say_v express_o they_o be_v not_o invocate_v and_o that_o we_o invocate_v god_n there_o to_o enable_v we_o to_o imitate_v they_o as_o above_z in_o the_o two_o place_n out_o of_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr civit._n dei_fw-la what_o then_o be_v this_o commend_v ourselves_o to_o their_o prayer_n it_o can_v be_v direct_a invocation_n for_o that_o he_o deny_v but_o a_o invocate_a of_o god_n or_o beg_v of_o he_o the_o benefit_n of_o their_o prayer_n as_o we_o shall_v see_v more_o below_o we_o have_v find_v the_o cardinal_n very_o unfaithful_a hitherto_o in_o his_o testimony_n of_o antiquity_n we_o will_v add_v two_o more_o he_o cite_v chrys_n 5._o hom._n in_o matt._n which_o be_v plain_o of_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o live_a saint_n it_o speak_v of_o the_o woman_n of_o canaan_n come_v of_o herself_o to_o christ_n without_o sue_v to_o any_o of_o the_o disciple_n to_o entreat_v for_o she_o chrys_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d chrys_n and_o this_o say_v he_o i_o speak_v not_o that_o we_o ought_v not_o to_o entreat_v or_o sue_v to_o the_o saint_n the_o other_o place_n be_v that_o which_o we_o note_v above_o how_o corrupt_o it_o be_v cite_v by_o the_o cardinal_n for_o the_o worship_n of_o saint_n afterward_o it_o be_v again_o allege_a by_o he_o for_o vow_n make_v to_o saint_n it_o be_v out_o of_o euseb_n de_fw-fr praepar_fw-la evang._n l._n 13._o c._n 11._o where_o as_o we_o note_v above_o in_o stead_n of_o make_v vow_n and_o prayer_n at_o the_o monument_n of_o martyr_n the_o interpreter_n have_v render_v it_o make_v vow_n to_o they_o that_o be_v to_o the_o martyr_n and_o this_o in_o three_o time_n allege_v this_o testimony_n the_o cardinal_n will_v not_o see_v our_o four_o general_n that_o practice_n of_o invocation_n which_o begin_v in_o the_o four_o century_n be_v not_o such_o as_o the_o romish_a be_v be_v the_o invocation_n begin_v in_o the_o four_o age_n be_v not_o such_o as_o the_o romish_a be_v either_o for_o the_o manner_n or_o the_o use_n that_o be_v it_o be_v not_o formal_a and_o direct_a invocation_n nor_o use_v in_o sacred_a office_n till_o long_o after_o 1._o they_o be_v wish_n not_o formal_a invocation_n as_o nyssen_n upon_o our_o saviour_n 2._o nyssen_n de_fw-fr oratione_fw-la dominica_n orat_fw-la 2._o when_o you_o pray_v luc._n 11.2_o distinguish_v between_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d vow_v and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d pray_v by_o direct_a address_n and_o petition_n to_o god_n so_o we_o in_o this_o discourse_n of_o invocation_n must_v distinguish_v between_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d a_o vow_n or_o wish_v and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d a_o pray_v to_o or_o religious_a address_n to_o any_o by_o petition_n so_o when_o they_o cry_v out_o in_o the_o council_n of_o chalcedon_n oret_fw-la pro_fw-la nobis_fw-la flavianus_n let_v flavianus_n pray_v for_o we_o it_o be_v a_o speak_n of_o their_o judgement_n of_o flavianus_n his_o be_v in_o bliss_n and_o a_o wish_v of_o the_o benefit_n of_o his_o intercession_n thus_o we_o find_v in_o theodoret_n history_n of_o the_o life_n of_o many_o father_n such_o closure_n of_o most_o of_o they_o i_o wish_v and_o desire_n that_o by_o their_o intercession_n i_o may_v obtain_v the_o divine_a help_n some_o think_v there_o be_v addition_n and_o insertion_n make_v in_o this_o work_n auxilium_fw-la theod._n in_o sanct._n patrum_fw-la hist_o rogo_fw-la &_o quaeso_fw-la ut_fw-la ipsorum_fw-la intercessione_n divinum_fw-la consequer_n auxilium_fw-la but_o whether_o these_o be_v theodoret_n word_n or_o any_o other_o they_o do_v speak_v the_o wish_n of_o have_v the_o benefit_n and_o effect_n of_o the_o saint_n prayer_n put_v up_o for_o the_o church_n below_o but_o this_o be_v not_o invocation_n 2._o in_o that_o practice_n we_o meet_v with_o for_o the_o most_o part_n only_o indirect_a invocation_n that_o be_v a_o pray_v to_o god_n himself_o direct_o that_o he_o will_v vouchsafe_v the_o effect_n of_o the_o saint_n intercession_n or_o prayer_n they_o make_v in_o behalf_n of_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n below_o and_o give_v the_o benefit_n thereof_o unto_o they_o as_o he_o see_v fit_a this_o still_o be_v not_o the_o invocate_a of_o saint_n which_o we_o contend_v about_o no_o more_o than_o moses_n can_v be_v say_v to_o have_v invocate_v abraham_n faustum_n aug._n l._n 20._o ●_o 21_o contra_fw-la faustum_n isaac_n and_o jacob_n when_o he_o pray_v to_o the_o lord_n to_o remember_v they_o in_o behalf_n of_o that_o people_n exod._n 32.13_o to_o this_o sense_n speak_v that_o passage_n of_o st._n aug._n cite_v sometime_o by_o romanist_n for_o invocation_n and_o explain_v above_o sect._n 1_o nu_fw-la 4._o speak_v of_o christian_a people_n frequent_v the_o tomb_n of_o martyr_n with_o a_o religious_a solennity_n that_o they_o may_v be_v stir_v up_o to_o imitation_n of_o the_o martyr_n come_v to_o a_o fellowship_n of_o their_o merit_n and_o be_v help_v by_o their_o prayer_n and_o this_o not_o by_o invocate_a or_o pray_v to_o they_o but_o by_o imitate_v of_o they_o and_o pray_v to_o god_n there_o ibid._n quo_fw-la adjuvante_fw-la possumu●_n imitari_fw-la ibid._n for_o his_o aid_n to_o enable_v we_o to_o imitate_v they_o and_o for_o his_o favour_n in_o afford_v we_o the_o benfit_a of_o their_o prayer_n this_o be_v not_o invocation_n of_o the_o saint_n but_o of_o god_n and_o if_o st._n aug._n have_v assert_v a_o direct_a invocation_n of_o the_o martyr_n themselves_o he_o have_v yield_v up_o the_o cause_n to_o faustus_n to_o the_o like_a sense_n be_v that_o which_o we_o note_v 5._o note_v hac_fw-la sect._n nu_fw-la 5._o above_o of_o st._n aug._n his_o saying_n commendare_fw-la nos_fw-la orationi_fw-la we_o ought_v to_o commend_v ourselves_o to_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o martyr_n not_o by_o direct_a invocate_a of_o they_o but_o of_o god_n as_o before_o and_o to_o this_o purpose_n also_o that_o of_o aug._n elsewhere_o 4._o aug._n de_fw-fr cura_fw-la pro_fw-la mort_fw-fr c._n 4._o which_o at_o first_o hear_v sound_v harsh_a where_o inquire_v what_o benefit_n accrue_v to_o a_o man_n friend_n to_o have_v their_o body_n lay_v near_o the_o monument_n of_o martyr_n commendent_fw-la i●sdem_fw-la sanctis_fw-la illos_fw-la tarquam_fw-la patronis_fw-la suscept●s_fw-la apud_fw-la d●minum_fw-la adju●andos_fw-mi ●rand●_n commendent_fw-la he_o say_v he_o see_v none_o unless_o this_o that_o when_o they_o look_v upon_o the_o place_n where_o their_o dear_a friend_n lie_v bury_v they_o may_v be_v move_v to_o commend_v they_o to_o those_o saint_n as_o patron_n to_o find_v help_n with_o god_n yea_o but_o he_o say_v commend_v they_o by_o pray_v true_a but_o to_o god_n not_o to_o the_o saint_n or_o martyr_n themselves_o to_o this_o purpose_n of_o indirect_a invocation_n speak_v that_o of_o cyril_n in_o his_o catech._n cite_v also_o by_o the_o cardinal_n when_o we_o offer_v the_o sacrifice_n we_o make_v mention_n of_o the_o saint_n do_v not_o say_v we_o invocate_v they_o that_o god_n by_o their_o intercession_n may_v receive_v our_o prayer_n thus_o far_o it_o prevail_v so_o as_o to_o have_v approbation_n and_o the_o practice_n of_o this_o indirect_a invocation_n or_o pray_v to_o god_n at_o martyr_n tomb_n and_o beg_v for_o their_o sake_n get_v strength_n by_o a_o common_a opinion_n of_o many_o that_o when_o god_n be_v so_o invocate_v or_o pray_v to_o than_o the_o martyr_n be_v present_a as_o some_o thought_n or_o do_v join_v his_o prayer_n with_o they_o as_o most_o think_v this_o st._n aug._n leave_v as_o uncertain_a in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr cura_fw-la pro_fw-la mortuis_fw-la c._n 16._o and_o something_o of_o doubt_n in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr vera_fw-la relig._n c._n 55._o but_o there_o he_o conclude_v for_o certain_a of_o the_o good_a angel_n in_o illo_o i_o exaudit_fw-la adjuvat_fw-la he_o hear_v i_o in_o god_n and_o help_v i_o in_o god_n that_o be_v when_o i_o pray_v or_o by_o my_o pray_v to_o god_n i_o have_v the_o angel_n help_v we_o may_v indeed_o say_v it_o with_o comfort_n as_o origen_n do_v above_o in_o answer_v to_o celsus_n he_o that_o pious_o and_o faithful_o invocate_v god_n be_v sure_o to_o have_v the_o angel_n propitious_a and_o the_o benefit_n of_o their_o ministry_n so_o be_v he_o sure_a to_o have_v the_o benefit_n of_o the_o prayer_n which_o the_o saint_n put_v up_o in_o behalf_n of_o the_o church_n militant_a i_o may_v add_v here_o that_o place_n of_o basil_n often_o allege_v by_o the_o romanist_n finem_fw-la basil_n in_o orat_fw-la de_fw-fr 40._o martyr_n prope_fw-la finem_fw-la but_o see_v how_o abuse_v by_o the_o cardinal_n who_o thus_o allege_v it_o qui_fw-la aliqua_fw-la premitur_fw-la angustia_fw-la ad_fw-la hos_fw-la confugiat_fw-la
what_o st._n aug._n imperitorum_fw-la aug._n de_fw-fr morib_n ecclesiae_fw-la c._n 34._o s●pul●hrorum_fw-la &_o picturarum_fw-la adoratores_fw-la jurbas_fw-la imperitorum_fw-la say_v in_o several_a place_n in_o his_o book_n of_o the_o manner_n or_o custom_n of_o the_o church_n he_o note_v some_o to_o be_v worshipper_n of_o picture_n and_o sepulcher_n and_o put_v they_o among_o the_o company_n of_o ignorant_a and_o indiscreet_a man_n and_o say_v the_o church_n own_v not_o allow_v not_o such_o custom_n or_o practice_n the_o cardinal_n reply_v peradventure_o st._n aug._n forte_n bell._n de_fw-fr imag_n l._n 2._o cap._n 16._o forte_n speak_v of_o the_o idol_n of_o the_o gentile_n peradventure_o of_o those_o that_o do_v superstitious_o without_o all_o peradventure_o st._n aug._n speak_v not_o of_o heathen_a idol_n but_o of_o the_o irregular_a honour_n give_v by_o some_o to_o the_o martyr_n and_o without_o any_o peradventure_o they_o do_v superstitious_o worship_n and_o honour_v they_o for_o that_o necessary_o follow_v upon_o religious_a worship_n give_v to_o a_o creature_n and_o can_v be_v decline_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o after_o two_o peradventure_o the_o cardinal_n be_v resolve_v to_o say_v st._n aug._n be_v then_o new_o convert_v when_o he_o write_v that_o book_n and_o so_o ecclesiae_fw-la so_o offensum_fw-la quibusdam_fw-la ritibus_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la offend_v with_o some_o custom_n of_o the_o church_n it_o seem_v the_o cardinal_n take_v that_o practice_n which_o st._n aug._n blame_v to_o have_v be_v a_o custom_n or_o usage_n of_o the_o church_n but_o after_o be_v better_o instruct_v he_o can_v excuse_v they_o but_o where_o do_v st_n august_n ever_o excuse_v such_o practice_n or_o show_v himself_o reconcile_v to_o image-worship_n we_o do_v not_o find_v he_o recall_v it_o in_o his_o retractation_n but_o we_o find_v benevol_fw-it find_v aug._n contra_fw-la adimant_n c._n 13._o velle_fw-la videri_fw-la se_fw-la favere_fw-la simulachris_fw-la ut_fw-la vesanae_fw-la sectae_fw-la paganorum_fw-la concilient_fw-la benevol_fw-it he_o blame_v the_o manichee_n in_o that_o they_o will_v seem_v to_o favour_v image_n for_o gain_v the_o good_a will_n of_o the_o pagan_n to_o their_o mad_a sect_n attingit_fw-la aug._n contra_fw-la acad._n l._n 1._o c._n 1._o nihil_fw-la omnino_fw-la colendum_fw-la esse_fw-la tot●●que_fw-la abjiciendum_fw-la quicquid_fw-la oculis_fw-la cernitur_fw-la qui●quid_fw-la ullus_fw-la sensus_fw-la attingit_fw-la again_o we_o find_v he_o in_o his_o first_o book_n against_o the_o academic_n pronounce_v in_o general_a nothing_o be_v at_o all_o to_o be_v worship_v but_o to_o be_v cast_v away_o what_o ever_o be_v see_v with_o mortal_a eye_n and_o what_o ever_o any_o sense_n can_v reach_v this_o book_n indeed_o he_o write_v when_o he_o be_v new_o convert_v but_o when_o he_o write_v his_o retractation_n mentis_fw-la retract_v l._n 1._o c._n 1._o est_fw-la en●m_fw-la sensus_fw-la &_o mentis_fw-la he_o be_v a_o age_a christian_n there_o he_o repeat_v this_o sentence_n not_o retract_v it_o but_o only_o explain_v the_o word_n sense_n by_o say_v he_o mean_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o body_n not_o of_o the_o mind_n also_o we_o find_v the_o very_a same_o father_n in_o his_o book_n of_o true_a religion_n artifices_fw-la aug._n de_fw-fr vera_fw-la relig._n c._n 55._o non_fw-fr est_fw-fr nobis_fw-la religio_fw-la humanorum_fw-la operum_fw-la cultus_fw-la meliores_fw-la enim_fw-la sunt_fw-la i●si_fw-la artifices_fw-la deny_v it_o and_o say_v as_o we_o see_v above_o sect_n 1_o worship_n of_o dead_a man_n or_o of_o angel_n be_v no_o part_n of_o our_o religion_n so_o likewise_o deny_v he_o there_o that_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o work_n of_o man_n hand_n be_v any_o part_n of_o christian_a religion_n and_o add_v reason_n for_o it_o because_o the_o workman_n themselves_o be_v better_a then_o their_o work_n we_o find_v he_o also_o upon_o occasion_n of_o the_o heathen-worship_n ask_v this_o question_n pute●_n aug._n in_o ps_n 113._o quir_n adorat_fw-la vel_fw-la orat_fw-la intu●●_n simula●h_v they_o qui_fw-la non_fw-la sic_fw-la afficitur_fw-la ●t_a ab_fw-la eo_fw-la se_fw-la coe●●●rt_n pute●_n who_o be_v he_o that_o adore_v or_o pray_v behold_v a_o image_n and_o be_v not_o so_o affect_v as_o to_o think_v he_o be_v hear_v by_o it_o where_o he_o not_o only_o condemn_v the_o practice_n but_o show_v the_o danger_n of_o it_o in_o withdraw_v the_o mind_n from_o that_o which_o be_v to_o be_v adore_v and_o pray_v to_o nor_o be_v this_o so_o easy_o to_o be_v turn_v off_o as_o the_o cardinal_n will_v do_v it_o by_o say_v st._n aug._n speak_v of_o image_n with_o supposal_n of_o the_o heathen_a error_n as_o if_o he_o shall_v say_v adoret_fw-la bell_n l._n 2._o de_fw-fr imag._n c._n 9_o loqui_fw-la de_fw-la simulachris_fw-la supposito_fw-la errore_fw-la gentilium_fw-la quando_fw-la quis_fw-la putet_fw-la simulachrum_fw-la esse_fw-la deum_fw-la &_o accedit_fw-la ut_fw-la adoret_fw-la when_o any_o think_v the_o image_n to_o be_v god_n as_o the_o heathen_n do_v come_v to_o adore_v and_o pray_v as_o if_o there_o be_v no_o danger_n of_o withdraw_v the_o mind_n so_o but_o in_o they_o that_o think_v the_o image_n to_o be_v god_n but_o all_o heathen_n do_v not_o think_v so_o as_o we_o shall_v see_v below_o and_o st._n aug._n put_v his_o question_n general_o of_o all_o and_o subjoin_v the_o example_n of_o those_o that_o can_v not_o think_v the_o image_n to_o be_v the_o thing_n it_o represent_v but_o may_v see_v they_o different_a and_o distant_a one_o from_o the_o other_o at_o the_o same_o time_n as_o the_o sun_n itself_o and_o the_o image_n of_o it_o statuae_fw-la aug._n ibid._n homines_fw-la talibus_fw-la superstitionibus_fw-la obligati_fw-la ad_fw-la ipsum_fw-la solemn_a plerumque_fw-la dorsum_fw-la ponentes_fw-la preces_fw-la fundunt_fw-la statuae_fw-la they_o say_v he_o that_o be_v engage_v to_o such_o superstition_n do_v often_o turn_v their_o back_n to_o the_o sun_n itself_o and_o pour_v out_o their_o prayer_n to_o the_o statue_n or_o image_n of_o it_o and_o then_o st._n august_n tell_v we_o the_o danger_n of_o it_o which_o be_v common_a to_o heathen_a or_o christian_n ibid._n contra_fw-la hunc_fw-la affectum_fw-la quo_fw-la humana_fw-la infirmitas_fw-la facile_fw-la capi_fw-la potest_fw-la cantat_fw-la scriptura_fw-la aug._n ibid._n that_o will_v bind_v themselves_o to_o such_o superstition_n against_o this_o affection_n arise_v from_o the_o use_n of_o the_o image_n wherewith_o humane_a infirmity_n may_v be_v easy_o take_v the_o scripture_n cry_v out_o tell_v they_o often_o they_o be_v the_o work_n of_o man_n hand_n and_o a_o little_a after_o upon_o the_o same_o psalm_n show_v the_o danger_n that_o arise_v ibid._n valet_fw-la in_o affectibus_fw-la miserorum_fw-la similis_fw-la vivency_n forma_fw-la aug._n ibid._n by_o reason_n of_o the_o similitude_n the_o likeness_n say_v he_o which_o the_o image_n have_v to_o one_o live_v much_o prevail_v upon_o the_o affection_n of_o silly_a miserable_a man_n and_o thus_o much_o out_o of_o st._n aug._n against_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n and_o to_o show_v the_o danger_n of_o use_v they_o in_o holy_a worship_n let_v we_o hear_v what_o st._n gregory_n bishop_n of_o rome_n say_v in_o his_o time_n which_o be_v about_o 600_o year_n after_o christ_n they_o be_v get_v into_o church_n for_o the_o historical_a use_n that_o may_v be_v make_v of_o they_o but_o not_o yet_o obtain_v any_o worship_n serenus_n bishop_n of_o marscille_n have_v cause_v some_o image_n to_o be_v break_v because_o he_o see_v the_o people_n incline_v to_o give_v they_o worship_n 9_o greg._n epist_n l._n 9_o ep_v 9_o gregory_n bishop_n of_o rome_n write_v to_o he_o commend_v he_o in_o that_o he_o forbid_v they_o to_o be_v worship_v but_o not_o praise_v he_o for_o break_v they_o dii_fw-la bel._n de_fw-fr imag_n l._n 2._o c._n 16._o usum_fw-la superstitiosum_fw-la quo_fw-la imagine_v coluntur_fw-la ut_fw-la dii_fw-la the_o cardinal_n answer_v with_o their_o usual_a limitation_n of_o worship_n that_o their_o bishop_n forbid_v only_o the_o superstitious_a use_n of_o worship_v image_n as_o god_n when_o as_o its_o plain_a to_o he_o that_o read_v the_o epistle_n he_o simple_o forbid_v the_o worship_n by_o such_o say_n adorare_fw-la omnibus_fw-la modis_fw-la devita_fw-la by_o all_o way_n possble_v avoid_v the_o adore_v of_o they_o and_o all_o the_o use_n he_o allow_v of_o they_o be_v historical_a as_o appear_v by_o many_o passage_n in_o that_o epistle_n that_o speak_v that_o use_n the_o only_a reason_n of_o have_v and_o retain_v they_o as_o for_o example_n ibid._n aliud_fw-la est_fw-la adorare_fw-la aliud_fw-la per_fw-la picturae_fw-la historiam_fw-la quid_fw-la sit_fw-la adorandum_fw-la addiscere_fw-la greg_n ibid._n it_o be_v one_o thing_n say_v he_o to_o adore_v another_o thing_n to_o learn_v by_o the_o history_n of_o the_o picture_n what_o be_v to_o be_v adore_v again_o they_o be_v not_o place_v in_o the_o church_n ad_fw-la adorandum_fw-la for_o worship_n but_o ad_fw-la instruendas_fw-la solummodo_fw-la only_a for_o instruct_v of_o the_o mind_n of_o the_o simple_a after_o this_o he_o
mouth_n of_o heathen_n i_o neither_o worship_v the_o very_a image_n debeo_fw-la aug._n in_o ps_n 113._o nec_fw-la si_fw-la mulachrum_fw-la colo_fw-la sed_fw-la per_fw-la effigiem_fw-la ejus_fw-la rei_fw-la signum_fw-la intueor_fw-la quam_fw-la colere_fw-la debeo_fw-la nor_o a_o devil_n but_o in_o the_o corporal_a representation_n i_o look_v upon_o the_o sign_n of_o that_o thing_n which_o i_o ought_v to_o worship_n video_fw-la aug._n in_o ps_n 96._o non_fw-la illum_fw-la lapidem_fw-la a●t_fw-la simulachrum_fw-la colo_fw-la quod_fw-la est_fw-la sine_fw-la sensu_fw-la sed_fw-la adoro_fw-la quod_fw-la video_fw-la &_o seruio_fw-la ei_fw-la quem_fw-la non_fw-la video_fw-la and_o in_o another_o place_n i_o do_v not_o worship_v that_o stone_n or_o that_o image_n which_o be_v without_o sense_n but_o i_o adore_v what_o i_o see_v and_o serve_v he_o who_o i_o do_v not_o see_v thus_o can_v the_o heathen_n plead_v and_o profef_n in_o excuse_n of_o their_o worship_a image_n the_o romanist_n have_v need_v study_n and_o give_v out_o some_o new_a pretence_n i_o will_v close_v this_o point_n with_o the_o consideration_n of_o one_o chief_a cause_n of_o image-worship_n that_o which_o make_v it_o be_v so_o ready_o entertain_v and_o so_o tenacious_o hold_v as_o among_o the_o heathen_a so_o proportionable_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o that_o be_v satisfaction_n of_o sense_n or_o sight_n so_o in_o arnobius_n by_o apply_v to_o their_o statue_n exhiberi_fw-la arnob._n l._n 6._o contra_fw-la gentes_fw-la p●asentiam_fw-la quandam_fw-la exhiberi_fw-la they_o conceit_v a_o enjoyment_n of_o their_o god_n as_o present_v by_o pray_v to_o their_o image_n they_o do_v as_o it_o be_v talk_v with_o their_o go_n and_o for_o this_o they_o object_v to_o the_o christian_n that_o videre_fw-la that_o minutius_n felix_n in_o octavio_n deum_fw-la suum_fw-la nec_fw-la ostendere_fw-la possum_fw-la nec_fw-la videre_fw-la they_o can_v not_o show_v or_o see_v the_o god_n they_o worship_v to_o this_o satisfaction_n of_o sense_n in_o religion_n belong_v that_o of_o lactantius_n fulserint_fw-la lact._n l._n 2._o c._n 7._o horum_fw-la pulchritudo_fw-la perstringit_fw-la oculos_fw-la nec_fw-la ullam_fw-la religionem_fw-la putant_fw-la ubicunque_fw-la haec_fw-la non_fw-la fulserint_fw-la the_o beauty_n of_o these_o image_n dazzle_v the_o eye_n neither_o do_v they_o think_v there_o be_v any_o religion_n where_o those_o do_v not_o shine_v and_o appear_v be_v not_o these_o word_n speak_v by_o so_o ancient_a a_o father_n one_o will_v think_v they_o speak_v of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n our_o three_o evidence_n be_v from_o the_o inevidence_n or_o weakness_n of_o the_o proof_n allegation_n the_o plea_n make_v for_o image_n worship_v weak_a and_o the_o pleader_n unfaithful_a in_o their_o allegation_n that_o can_v be_v make_v by_o the_o adversary_n for_o image-worship_n for_o that_o which_o they_o pretend_v to_o bring_v from_o before_o the_o seven_o age_n or_o century_n be_v either_o out_o of_o forge_a writing_n or_o if_o out_o of_o true_a author_n the_o word_n be_v pervert_v or_o the_o argument_n make_v from_o they_o inconsequent_a as_o to_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n this_o will_v appear_v if_o we_o examine_v the_o collection_n which_o the_o cardinal_n have_v make_v or_o rather_o some_o careless_a scribe_n for_o he_o but_o he_o too_o blame-worthy_a that_o will_v not_o better_o inquire_v into_o they_o or_o think_v that_o other_o will_v not_o first_o he_o make_v a_o semblance_n of_o proof_n from_o st._n primò_fw-la bel._n l._n 2._o de_fw-la imaginib_fw-la c._n 12._o sect_n primò_fw-la hierom_n in_o his_o epist_n to_o marcelia_n where_o he_o invite_v she_o to_o bethlem_n say_v the_o tabernacle_n be_v venerable_a for_o the_o cherubin_n but_o no_o such_o word_n in_o that_o epistle_n indeed_o in_o a_o epistle_n of_o paula_n and_o eustochium_fw-la to_o invite_v marcelia_n to_o bethlem_n there_o be_v such_o a_o thing_n but_o not_o the_o word_n of_o bellarmine_n domini_fw-la venerabantur_fw-la judai_n sancia_n sanctorum_fw-la quia_fw-la ibi_fw-la erant_fw-la nun_n venerabilius_fw-la tibi_fw-la videtur_fw-la sepulchrum_n domini_fw-la the_o jew_n say_v those_o woman_n worship_v or_o reverence_v the_o holy_a of_o holies_n because_o there_o be_v the_o chernbin_n ark_n aaron_n rod_n and_o do_v not_o the_o sepulchre_n of_o the_o lord_n seem_v to_o thou_o more_o venerable_a so_o the_o sentence_n or_o word_n be_v not_o hierom_n but_o the_o woman_n nor_o be_v they_o their_o word_n neither_o as_o bellarm._n repeat_v they_o but_o let_v they_o go_v as_o he_o will_v have_v they_o the_o argument_n for_o image-worship_n be_v altogether_o inconsequent_a from_o that_o reverence_n the_o jew_n give_v towards_o the_o temple_n or_o the_o ark._n he_o subjoin_v immediate_o a_o testimony_n out_o of_o st_n aug._n who_o in_o his_o three_o book_n de_fw-fr trin._n c._n 10._o supra_fw-la loquens_fw-la de_fw-la quibusdam_fw-la signis_fw-la quae_fw-la venerationem_fw-la tanqu●m_fw-la religiosa_fw-la merentur_fw-la point_fw-fr pro_fw-la exemplo_fw-la serpentem_fw-la aeneum_fw-la bell._n ubi_fw-la supra_fw-la speak_v of_o certain_a sign_n which_o deserve_v veneration_n as_o thing_n pertain_v to_o religion_n put_v for_o example_n there_o the_o brazen_a serpent_n st._n aug._n there_o give_v other_o example_n as_o well_o as_o the_o brazen_a serpent_n as_o the_o stone_n which_o jacob_n head_n lie_v upon_o when_o he_o have_v the_o vision_n gen._n 28._o but_o because_o the_o brazen_a serpent_n be_v a_o image_n this_o must_v be_v mention_v as_o also_o in_o the_o next_o testimony_n though_o false_o there_o and_o impertinent_o here_o for_o the_o brazen_a serpent_n be_v not_o a_o image_n of_o christ_n but_o a_o type_n or_o sign_n as_o st._n aug._n have_v it_o aug._n haec_fw-la h●●_n norem_fw-la ut_fw-la religiosa_fw-la possunt_fw-la habere_fw-la so_o st._n aug._n and_o upon_o that_o score_n there_o be_v a_o honour_n due_a to_o it_o as_o to_o all_o other_o sign_n of_o god_n institution_n but_o when_o religious_a worship_n be_v give_v to_o it_o by_o burn_v of_o incense_n which_o be_v also_o do_v in_o the_o romish_a worship_n before_o image_n it_o be_v break_v in_o piece_n to_o this_o the_o cardi_n nal_n there_o serpen●is_n there_o bel._n nbi_fw-la suprà_fw-la tam_fw-la de_fw-la imaginibus_fw-la cherubinorum_fw-la quàm_fw-la serpentis_fw-la aenei_fw-la quod_fw-la honorari_fw-la debuerint_fw-la pate●_n ex_fw-la regula_n augustini_fw-la signa_fw-la divinitus_fw-la instituta_fw-la esse_fw-la veneranda_fw-la quia_fw-la honour_n eorum_fw-la ad_fw-la prorotypum_fw-la transit_fw-la fuisse_fw-la autem_fw-la illas_fw-la imagine_v cherubin_n &_o serpen●is_n add_v another_o place_n of_o st._n aug._n and_o thus_o bring_v it_o in_o as_o concern_v the_o image_n of_o the_o cherub_n and_o of_o the_o brazen_a serpent_n that_o they_o be_v to_o be_v honour_v appear_v by_o st_n aug._n in_o his_o three_o book_n de_fw-fr doctr_n christiana_n c._n 9_o where_o he_o say_v sign_n appoint_v of_o god_n be_v venerable_a because_o the_o honour_n of_o they_o redound_v to_o the_o prototype_n and_o they_o be_v the_o image_n of_o the_o cherubin_n and_o of_o the_o serpent_n have_v thus_o repeat_v st._n aug_n word_n as_o he_o see_v fit_a he_o make_v his_o argument_n from_o thence_o if_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o worship_v the_o image_n of_o angel_n why_o not_o of_o the_o saint_n but_o first_o this_o have_v a_o false_a ground_n viz._n that_o the_o jew_n worship_v the_o cherubin_n 10._o cherubin_n chap._n iii_o nu_fw-la 10._o as_o above_o show_v that_o they_o do_v not_o again_o from_o the_o veneration_n or_o reverend_a respect_n give_v to_o the_o holy_a sign_n institute_v of_o god_n to_o infer_v romish_a worship_n give_v to_o image_n be_v inconsequent_a upon_o a_o double_a account_n because_o such_o veneration_n be_v of_o the_o weak_a sort_n of_o honour_n far_o short_a of_o the_o worship_n contend_v for_o also_o because_o there_o be_v great_a difference_n betwixt_o holy_a sign_n institute_v of_o god_n and_o image_n of_o man_n invention_n and_o so_o from_o that_o look_v towards_o or_o bow_v towards_o the_o temple_n or_o ark_n use_v by_o the_o jew_n to_o infer_v image-worship_n be_v inconsequent_a and_o fail_v upon_o the_o former_a respect_n and_o also_o because_o a_o circumstantial_a determine_n of_o worship_n give_v to_o god_n this_o way_n rather_o than_o another_o as_o towards_o the_o ark_n or_o temple_n be_v far_o different_a from_o the_o objective_n determine_v or_o receive_v of_o the_o worship_n as_o a_o image_n do_v but_o indeed_o the_o cardinal_n wrong_v st._n aug._n both_o in_o his_o word_n and_o meaning_n for_o st._n aug._n do_v not_o there_o deliver_v a_o rule_n nor_o say_v as_o the_o cardinal_n set_v it_o down_o but_o only_o by_o the_o way_n say_v referenda_fw-la aug._n the_o doctr_n christiana_n l._n 3._o c._n 9_o qui_fw-la veneratur_fw-la utile_fw-la signum_fw-la divinitus_fw-la institutum_fw-la non_fw-la hoc_fw-la veneratur_fw-la sed_fw-la illud_fw-la poti●s_fw-la quò_fw-la talia_fw-la cuncta_fw-la referenda_fw-la he_o that_o reverence_v sign_n appoint_v of_o god_n he_o mean_v the_o jewish_a type_n before_o chri●●_n do_v not_o reverence_v these_o but_o that_o to_o which_o