the Assembly hath vowed and covenanted to come as neare as they can in the Government of this Church unto that of other Reformed Churches and namely of that of Scotland taking evermore Gods Word for their first patterne and infallible rule of direction 10. They are thanked for it because it refuteth some unworthy aspersions that some have fastened upon the Government of the Reformed Churches now who can those be judge you Sir If here the one be thanked I may probably say the other getteth little thanks for his paines 11. The Assembly rejoyceth at the washing away of those aspersions yea unworthy aspersions as they are termed by them 12. The Authors of such filthie aspersions were there said to affect wayes of their owne now what can be those wayes that be their owne since they are not called Gods wayes judge yee againe 13. They are paralleled there with Bishops being both two opposite enemies to the Government of the true Reformed Churches the Bishops saying no Bishop no King and the others that the Reformed Churches gave not the Civill Magistrate his due which I interpret to bee as if the one said a King cannot be without a Bishop and the other a King cannot bee with Presbyteriall Government 14. Because it was there said that it was necessary to vindicate the Churches of God from so unjust imputations 15. Because the Assembly like wise men commended very highly the sincerity gravity and ingenuity of the Book 16. Because the Synod declareth how it acknowledgeth it self very much beholden to the Commissioners for the vindication of their owne and other Protestant Churches 17. It is called a temperate and seasonable vindication 18. The Assembly saith in name of all the Churches of this Kingdome that they desire to keep with them all and that of Scotland a more arct Communion and uniformity in the Ordinances of Jesus Christ 19. The Assembly declareth there that they had a very high esteeme of the Church of Scotland 20. It commended also the Commissioners for their judicious and grave discourse in the Assembly which contributed much to the foresaid Uniformitie with all the Protestant Churches And all this I have deduced at length not onely to refute this untruth but many others heretofore and hereafter which this unworthy Pamphleter casteth upon the Commissioners yea upon all our Churches to kindle a fire of Division betwixt the Civill Magistrate and them in these most calamitous times when both Church and State are in combustion already But after such evident untruths he addeth if observation faile not Here he seemeth to make us believe that the Author of this Pamphlet is one of the Members of the Assembly or that some Member of the Assembly has dealt treacherously and perfidiously with the Assembly in pinning upon them such an Act flatly contrary to their formall expressions for none but some Member of the Assembly could make any such observation But of this I will say nothing it being a matter of higher concernment I beleeve rather that the Author of this Booke is minded in principio medio fine to be like to himselfe P. 4. § 1. We read nothing else but of the Independenters admirations which Philosophers call the daughter of ignorance and some of their thoughts and judgements as if they were giving an account of their Creed as p. 2. we read nothing but Interjections of lamentation ah oh c. of holy and gracious men whereas we crave some quia's ergo's or other rationall Conjunctions whereunto we cannot better reply then did Scotus to a Doctor of the Sorbone in Paris This Doctor when he could not answer Scotus his argument by Reason said evermore Respondeo cum Sancto Doctore Cum S. Doctore replied the other si sanctus oret pro nobis si Doctor respondeat ad argumentum so we to you If those men among you be holy let them cry ah for their sinnes and pray to God for Gods Church but let Doctors propound and answer arguments but this man reasoneth not but giveth out Sentences as if he were some Iudge of one of the Benches You doe but imagine and fancie whatsoever you say in this Section of your imagination of the Commissioners extr ajudiciall and eccentricall Act your acts may rather seeme Eccentricall secundum quid to London and Concentricall secundum quid with Oxford where me thinkes they have more regard a great deale to your tender Consciences then to those of the Commissioners Neither can any mortall man hinder so independent imaginations It hath been already proved that you have given the first second and third blow and in your Apologeticall Narration you threatned yet another your judgement is utterly erronious in thinking that this was intended to disunite the Presbiterians from others i. e. from Independenters since no others can well be thought upon all other Orthodox Churches and all the Synod being no other for their intention is altogether to unite you with them Neither are there for any thing we know any that disunite you from them or them from you save your selves onely P. 4. § 3. This well willer is very impertinent in proving against the Commissioners that Visibility and Succession are not essentiall notes of a true Church which they I beleeve never thought I am sure never said And yet I must say that howsoever visibility be not essentiall to a true Church yet it is essentiall to a true visible Church whereof we all dispute here And howsoever of a true Church wee cannot inferre visibility yet from true visibility we may infer a true Church P. 5. § 1. He blesseth God that God hath made a Rehoboth for the Scots And God willing wee shall bee fruitfull in the Land as Isaac and we pray God he and his be not as the Herdsmen of Gerar even striving with our Herdsmen of Isaac If we have a Rehoboth wherefore will yee not drinke of our Spring wherefore to use your termes will ye not jumpe with us or if yee will not ye may be gone as Lot with your Pastours and separate your selves from Abraham and Isaac Ibid. Who can hinder the windes if they blow and bring blacke weather from the North or West Answ No true English hearts have made any such judgement of the Northerly windes these three yeares last past How much trulier might it bee said of a few Donatisticall spirits with their Vbi habitas amica mea in meridie that trouble their mother Church esteeming all her children unworthy of their Communion Pag. 5. § 3. Ye come up me thinkes somewhat lamely with your Catalogue of Prophets 1. For onely ye have one Brightman and yet none of yours hee is of ours for he preferreth the Scots Church constituted of Parochiall Classicall and Synodall Assemblies before all other or at least postpones it to no others 2. Neither in exposing the Prophecies of Scripture according to Scripture can he be said to have had the gift of Prophecie since his expositions were not
AN ANSVVER TO A LIBELL INTITULED A COOLE CONFERENCE Between the cleered REFORMATION AND THE APOLOGETICALL NARRATION Brought together by a Wel-willer to both Wherein are cleerely refuted what ever he bringeth against the Reformation cleared most humbly submitted to the judgement of the Honourable Houses of Parliament the most Learned and Reverend Divines of the Assembly and all the Reformed Churches By ADAM STEVART Amb. lib. 5. de Fide Si taceamus consentire videbimur si contendamus verendum ne carnales judicemur Imprinted at London 1644. TO THE READER COurteous Reader I pray thee excuse some of the most materiall faults fallen out partly by my absence partly by an accident that befell the Copy and to correct them as followeth PAge 3. line 8. read neither should he have feared a suppression of his book p. 10. l. 11. dele all that parenthesis ibid. p. l. 20. dele because p. 11. l. 9. read and those who interesse p. 16. l. 24. for but so r. and so p. 19. l. 26. r. for it was 1. it was p. 22. d. men p. 25. l. 3. r. Answ 1. ib. p. l. 5. for how r. 2. How ibid. p. l. 8. after the word Communion adde all that followeth 3. Either this Wel-willer pretendeth to play the Naturalist or the Divine If the Naturalist he knoweth not well the nature of the Northerly winde for ordinarily it bringeth not blacke but faire weather and scattereth the clouds as he might learne of all Naturalists ab Aqualone aurum from the North commeth gold i.e. golden or fair weather Iob 37.22 The North winde driveth away rain Prov. 25.23 If he play the Divine and allude to Scripture I must say to him as Christ said to the Jewes Ye erre not understanding the Scriptures for there it signifieth either the Spirit of Christ as in Salomons Song And then he must pray with the Church A wake O North-winde and come thou South blow upon my garden that the spices thereof may flow out Cant. 4.16 Or Gods people who were Northerne in respect of the Philistins who were their enemies so we must be Gods people and the Independenters whom this Wel-willer opposeth to the North their enemies or the Babylonians who were septentrionall or North-ward in respect of Gods people Esay 41.25 and so he esteemeth us to be Gods enemies if so how hold they us for one of the most pure Churches but what ever it signifie it can never signifie the Church of Scotland but in a very good sense Pag. 27. d. us p. 28. for Heb. panegr r. as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of Scripture Heb. 12.23 l. ult for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 29. l. 8. for vomit r. ye vomit p. 29. l. 30. d. of my selfe p. 43. l. 27. for two read five p. 35. l. 29. after the word narration adde all this that followeth Onely I pray the Reader to consider these mens craft in going about to sow the seeds of division betwixt the civill Magistrat the orthodox Churches in making the world to beleeve that they grant him more then the maximes of Presbyteriall Government will suffer them to do For 1. They tell not wherein 2. Whether this power be Ecclesiasticall or Civill as for the Ecclesiasticall they cannot give it 1. It being onely a Ministeriall power to serve not Magisteriall to dominiere with or to be given away by proxy to whom they please 2. If they give the Magistrat any power what can it be is it to preach to teach the power of the Keies to Excommunicate or to attend upon the sick and poore people and as for the civill it is not theirs but His Majesties and the Magistrates as is the constant tenet of all the Orthodox Churches who hold the Civill power incompatible with that of a Pastour or Doctor of the Church 3. If they grant the Magistrate more power then our Churches how is it that they acknowledge the Kings Patent in New-England for nothing else but in matters of State or Civill Government and Gods word onely in Church Government 4. He and they also hold the same rule in Old-England and therefore I pray all men only to consider if this be not rather a gulling of the Civill Magistrate then a proof of what they say 5. I wish him to answer whether New-England depend of Old-England and whether they thinke the King and Parliament have power to change Religion and Church Government there 6. Whether they both have power to do the same here against Gods word 7. Whether the Parliament have done well or not in calling of this Assembly of Divines to judge of matters of Religion As for us the constant opinion of all our Churches is that all Civill power belongeth onely to the Civill Magistrate and none at all to the Church 2. That the Civill Magistrate hath an extrinsecall executive power about Religion to maintaine and reforme it in case of corruption and that according to the presidents in Scripture Neither did ever any good Christian Prince assume any more to himselfe Neither doth it any way lessen his power that it is only extrinsecall for to be intrinsecall or extrinsecall signifieth not any quantity of greater or lesser power but onely the manner thereof for an extrinsecall power and influence may be greater then an intrinsecall as appeareth in that of the efficient and Materiall cause for the first is only active and yet extrinsecall but the second meerely passive without any action or efficacy at all and yet intrinsecall PErlegi tractatum hunc in quo nihil reperio quo minus cum utilitate publicâ imprimatur IA. CRANFORD BEfore I beginne the Refutation of this Pamphlet it shall not be amisse that I apologize for my selfe for refuting a Book already sufficiently refuted of it selfe and by that very same Booke whereof it intendeth the refutation I will therefore here declare unto the Christian Reader how I came to undertake it how unwilling I was to doe it upon what reasons I was moved thereunto The truth therefore is thus That some daies after the publication of this booke I hapned to fall in company with some men of quality that were reading of it and after the perusall thereof it was the joint wish of them all that some answer were drawne up unto it A few dayes after that I chanced to re-encounter with some of the same company and some others very well affected to Reformation who after sundry discourses fell upon the same Theme againe some of them saying that it would doe well that the Commissioners of the Church of Scotland would answer it Where some of them desiring me to deliver my opinion I replyed severall times as occasion required in substance that which followeth That it might seeme strange to others if men of such gravity and learning and much more of so eminent place and employment representing the whole Nationall Church of the Kingdome of Scotland should stoop to answer every idle
it is not moved or directed as it is this or that judgement that actually moveth and directeth it to this or that action in effect 7. And if you beleeve that the understanding moveth the will necessarily then in our Regeneration it should suffice that the understanding alone should be renewed for it should necessarily draw the will after it which cannot be since Scripture inculcateth no lesse the renovation of the will o◠Heart than that of the understanding 8. A mans Regeneration should consist in Faith alone without Charity which likewise cannot hold for howsoever a man be justified by Faith alone without Charity yet is he not regenerated by Faith alone without Charity 9. A man being endowed with intellectuall habitudes should not stand in need of Morall vertues to perfect the Will but to be as you call it a morall or rather a good man morally it should suffice to be prudent and so morall vertues should have their seate in the understanding and be nothing else but Sciences opinions or prudences which was the opinion of Socrates universally blamed by all Philosophers 10. And finally howsoever the Will is evermore ruled by some judgment yet that finall judgement that ruleth it or that judicium ultimum and practicè practicum that ruleth humane actions dependeth of the Will as the Philosophers and Schoolemen both hold And so much touching this quarrell which you here begged with your vaine Philosophy so much condemned by S. Paul P. 3 § 1. Wherein say you hath appeared this preposterousnesse toward you whiles the Apologie smiles upon you and sweetly calleth you and Holland by name the more reformed Churches Doe you give them one such a kinde word in all your Reply Answ Here it seemeth that this Well-willer would paction with the Commissioners for an interchange of Commendations but they have already answered that they cannot praise you but so far forth as truth will suffer them p. 2. § 2. Neither doe they deny but the Reformed Churches Discipline may have need of reformation as their faith that is still growing from faith to faith but from thence it followeth no more that it is erronious then that their faith is so And here it is to be noted how closely this originall sinne in arguing evermore à Posse ad Esse sticketh to this as to all other Independenters bones Let him shew wherein either the Scots or other Orthodox Churches need Reformation Let him prove that their Government is but a contrived Episcopacie that it is such as maketh all Reformed Churches unworthy of Independenters communion that their owne Churches are endowed with such a Seraphicall perfection and ours so corrupt that they dare no more communicate with us then the Pharises thought they could doe with the people item that there is no subordination in Ecclesiasticall Judicatories That men are not Church members before they be admitted by a Church Covenant distinct from the Covenant of Grace If that he can doe this it will be more to the purpose then all these ridiculous exclamations and complaints We desire arguments and no compliments P. 3. S. 2. Not to make c. This is very dangerous and may breed if it have not already as many Sects of Epheticts Scepticts Aporeticts and Pyrrhoniens amongst you as were in former times amongst the Philosophers no lesse destructive of all faith and setled Ecclesiasticall lawes then theirs were of all Sciences and therefore both so justly branded by the Apostle 1 Tim. 3.7 There is one thing more that maketh the Apologists more confident of their candor in that their Apologie received so great an Approbation from so pious and learned a man c. Answ How confident the Commissioners may be of their candor and ye should be of yours it were better to heare it of the Assembly then of you since it is more to be believed in this cause then ye in judging of your selves And as for that Approbation it was but from one man 2. It was not approved by the whole Assembly as was that of the Reformation cleared which was approved by that same very learned man also 3. And he by that very approbation did solemnly condemne your Apologeticall Narration 4. Neither approved he the substance but some circumstances of your Apologie viz. its modestie c. wherein he might be very easily deceived Item your Communicablenesse hoping better of you than appearingly he will find and compatiblenesse with Magistracy which hitherto is not fully proved 5. Whether he approved all that ye presented to him at first in your Booke your selves know best if not we have not as yet your opinion till according to exigence of time c. you give the world a second edition of it and then ye may tell us newes of your candor 6. Neither could he judge of your candor since he could no way judge of your heart consequētly whether your writ was consonāt to your words and your words to your heart Besides all this in that Approbation he declareth his aversion from yours and inclination towards the Presbyterian Government So as this mans braine seemeth of a very strange temper in citing for him that which is so directly against him As on the other side though the Assembly voted you thankes yet was it only for the Bookes you gave them not for the Reply as it was expressed to that effect in the Vote if observation faile not Answ This cannot but be most untrue 1. for the Assembly voted them no thankes for the books till all the Members thereof had read considered the same were extreamely well satisfied with the contents thereof 2. He would make this grave Assembly very ridiculous to say no more if it had nothing else to doe but to imploy so much time in voting thankes for so small a matter viz. for a two-penny book 3. If it be so wherefore voted it not thankes for the Apologeticall Narration which was a great deale bigger and sold 6d 4. Here according to your judgement it cannot escape the blame of great ingratitude towards the Apologizers whereof yee will doe well to admonish it 5. For feare your observation faile you I pray you looke the Act and afterwards you cannot if you have any candor but in imitation of S. Austin disabuse the world by some booke of Retractations which here you abuse by this your false observation And thus far I came with my reasons grounded upon some generall but very certaine relations concerning the Assemblies speech in giving thankes to the Commissioners of the Church of Scotland for their Reply to the Apologeticall Narration but since this my Book hath been ended upon more particular information I adde these following reasons 8. The Assembly in thanking them for it calleth it a very learned and pious piece which is not a praise of two sheets of paper and a little inke but also of the matter it containeth 9. It was there said that it is very usefull for this time when
them in the Lord but not to rule ever themselves and others Answ 1. What is Well-willer understandeth by Congregations whether Ministers alone of Ruling Elders alone or both together or men or all men women and children and in a word all the members of the Church I know not Neither doth hee expresse his minde upon this point Only I must say that being once in company with some of their Preachers I heard some women maintaine stoutly in presence of the Minister without any contradiction made by him that women also had power in Ecclefiasticall Assemblies to judge of Controversies of Religion and in matter of all Ecclesiasticall Censures 2. I answer it is one thing 1. to call a Church Officer to his charge or to give him his vocation or calling 2. another to send him into the charge or to give him his mission 3. another to admit him into the charge and to elect him or choose him The first is an act of the Church officers who examine his life and Doctrine and afterwards give him his Ordination in the name of the whole Ministry The second is an act of those who send him and sometimes is done by the Ministers in a Colloque or a Synod which give him his Ordination as when hee is sent to feed a particular flocke sometimes by a particular Church as in some particular Commission to a Classe or Synod but in the name of the universall visible Church as yee see in the Assembly at Antiochia in sending some Ministers to the Assembly at Hierusalem The third is an act sometimes of particular Churches as in the admission and election of their owne Ministers Sometimes of a Colloque and Synod as in the admission of the Members therof as in that Synod at Hierusalem And here to avoid all Sophistications of our Adversaries note that I speak here only of the visible Church according to its visible forme and consequently of the visible and externe Vocation Mission Admission and Election of Ministers so I say every Church chooses i. e. elects its owne Ministers but it calleth them not nor sendeth them It giveth them not their generall Vocation nor Mission into the Ministery but that is an act of the whole Church which in actu signato belongeth to the whole Church but in actu exercito according to the exigence of time and places to particular Ministers not in quality of Ministers of particular Congregations but of greater consociations in a representative body of many particular Churches So a Minister in a Synod hath power of God by the whole visible Church to judge rule and feed many Churches positis ponendio ut poni debent so as nothing thereunto requisite bee wanting but all ordered as it should viz. if it be by consent or election of his particular Church and he bee admitted by the Classe or Synod whereunto he is sent c. as it is ordinarily practised in our Reformed Churches Master Well-willer replyeth againe That Episcopacy is as intrinsecall to particular Churches as the Presbyteric since Bishops are chosen by the people at their instalment where customarily people are allowed to make any just exception Answ I deny the Assumption viz. that it is as intrinsecall and that for the reason brought by the Commissioners As for that which hee bringeth for confirmation thereof viz. because they are chosen by the people I answer 1. It is not enough they have their Election from the people but they must also have their Vocation and Mission from the Church in the name and authority of Christ which they have not according to this Well-willers owne Tenets 2. Because the people can make no Church Officer and principally Ministers since they have not the abilities to judge of their learning and gifts 3. In choosing of an Archbishop it is not morally possible that all the people can elect him and especially when he is a great Archbishop or a Primate over a whole Kingdome for all the people cannot well meet together 4. And howbeit they could meet yet could not their consent and voyces easily be gathered 5. It were a ridiculous thing in choosing of him to seek the consent and voyces of every idle and ignorant fellow yea of women that are of the people 6. Neither is it enough to chose a Bishop to make any just exception for that is not to elect him but to hinder his Election 7. Neither is this ordinarily practised 8. And Master Well-willer to the Bishops here confesseth in the next line that it hath had little successe But Master Well-willer confirmeth it out of that ordinary passage of Hieronymus To avoid Schisme one of the classicall Presbyterie was chosen to be as Chair man Answ 1. Such a Bishop is not an English or Papist Bishop but a Moderator of the action or a Master of the Chaire which will not make up a Bishop in so farre as a Bishop is distinguished from an ordinary Minister for yee your selves pretend to have your Synods which cannot be without some Moderator President or Master of the Chaire and yet ye deny that ye have any Bishops or Episcopall Government 2. Neither are Bishops annually 3. To bee short Master Well-willer bringeth us here no reall but imaginary Bishops in the Kingdome of Utopia viz. that are only Masters of the Chaire annuall c. 4. Item whose Chancellour Archdeacon c. were Parishioners 5. Their Chancellours are not ordinarily Ecclesiasticall but Lay-men as ye call them who neverthelesse judge of all Ecclesiasticall Causes which ye ordinarily blame 6. Neither have they Vocation from God as yee confesse Neither are they chosen by all the Churches that they rule and feed if any food they give and feed not themselves with the fat of the people You are also too bold Master Well-willer to say that the people formerly have beene as willing they should reigne as ever any people were in your Kingdome to have the Presbytery ever them Answ We can shew you hundreds yea thousands who have cutled their Government both in England and in Ireland and what hath been the good will of the Scots towards them they can best tell themselves as having felt it these foure or five yeares last past But as for the Presbyterian Government ye have never heard the People murmure much lesse rise up against it 2. But if it be so that ye have found them so sweet what needed ye run away and desert the Church here They did compell Ministers and Churchwardens to doe many things against their conscience and in case of refufall did ordinarily undoe them as we can produce many examples both in England and Ireland yea of the Independenters themselves before that they spake this way in despite of the Reformed Churches The like of this cannot without singular impudence be said to have been any where practised by any Scots Presbyterie We grant you that it is not the peoples consent only but if according to the Word that makes a Government lawfull But wherefore may not a Congregationall representative Church as well choose men for Classicall Assemblies as for Synods What pattern have you for the one rather then for the other To all this according to your usuall custom ye say much but prove litle or nothing of what is in dispute betwixt us many books ye make but little to the purpose And now when ye can doe no better ye can your selves most desperately on the Bishops side to maintain their cause when ye are yet too weake to maintaine your own This Well-willer in the end of his Booke wishes that the Commissioners golden speech be written upon all their actions viz. That those that are most averse to Presbyterie if they allow no matertall difference in Doctrine Worship or Practice might enjoy their peace and all comforts of their Ministery and Profession under it without controllment of that Authoritative power which they so much apprehend And thereunto replieth We have saith he been of late made to feare the contrary by the reports of some not of the meanest ranke rf your own Nation Answ No godly man that knoweth what is Presbyterian Government can doubt of it for according to the rules thereof 1. no man is compelled to be Actor in any thing against his own conscience 2. If you will be under it and allow no materiall difference c. without doubt the Synod and all Orthodox Churches will cherish you and assure you of it But if ye wil ever live in Panick feares and be so witty as evermore to find out new matter of jealousies to vex your own soules and make you to live in such a perpetuall diffidence all the forces of the King and his three Kingdomes is not able to hinder it ye must trust in God and admit of such securitie from your Brethren as morally ye can have If this doe not the businesse we know not what to advise you As for that Anonymous Country-man of ours who he can be and if any such be and whether his discourse with you could give you matter of just feare we know not and therefore forbeare to answer Only I wish seriously on your behalfe ye would doe nothing against the glory of your God the weale of your Country or to the breach of charity with your Brethren who so much desire to live in peace with you all The peace of God be with you all Amen FINIS