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A51738 The considerations which oblig'd Peter Manby dean of London-dery, to embrace the Roman Catholic religion humbly dedicated to His Grace the Lord Primate of Ireland. Manby, Peter, d. 1697. 1687 (1687) Wing M384; ESTC R7924 16,848 24

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Schisms among you that ye may with one mind and one mouth Glori●y God 1 Cor. 1.10 Rom. 15.6 In fine let the Reader compare that Devotion which Catholicks pay to the Sacrifice of the Mass with that which most Protestants shew to the Common-prayer and then see how much better we are by Reforming the Mass into English As for St. Paul's 14th Chapter of his first Epistle to the Corinthians I humbly think it not well understood by Protestants If any man be ignorant saith he let him be ignorant Wherefore Brethren covet no Prophecy and forbid not to speak with tongues ver 39. God is not the Author of Confusion but of Peace ver 33. Upon the whole matter I desire to be inform'd whether the Protestant Church had any other foundation setting aside an Act of Parliament than every mans own Reason or which is the same thing the Scripture interpreted by every man's Reason There are but two Bases whereupon to settle our selves the Scripture and Fathers expounded by my own Reason or the Scriptures and Fathers expounded by the voice of the present Visible Church This later is Popish and cannot support a Reform'd Fabrick I have sometimes wonder'd at this Assertion of Calvin Instit. lib. 4. cap. 1. so incoherent with his own Principles of Reformation Extra Ecclesiae gremium nulla speranda salus nec remissio peccatorum quia non est alius in vitam ingressus Which I think may be thus render'd into English He that will enter into Life let him mortifie the pride of his own Reason and humbly cast himself at the feet of the Catholick Church If this be the meaning of his words as it must be in case he believed any such thing as one Holy Catholick Church how he will justifie his Reformation at the day of Judgement I cannot imagine In this Paper therefore I presume not to assert my own Reason which I confess to be as weak as any body else can think it but the Authority of the Church against the A●rogance of the first Reformers This difference I understand betwixt the spirit of Catholiques and of Heretiques the former make use of their Reason with Submission the later with Contradiction and Petulancy against the Church and against the express words of Christ He that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me Cranmer had no Mission from Heaven nor yet from the present Visible Church to authorize his doings but made himself Judge Witness and Accuser So did Luther so did Calvin Socinus Knipperdoling c. How they will Answer it at the last day I cannot understand A word or two more before I make an end I know divers Loyal Persons of the Church of England who are Protestants by the Tyranny of Prejudice or Interest but Catholiques by Inclination Of them I beg leave to ask a few Questions What Priesthood or Holy Orders have Protestants but what they Confess to have received from Roman Catholique Bishops Who gave them Authority to pronounce themselves Sound Members and the Church of Rome a Corrupt Arm of the Catholique Church Did not the Presbyterians anno 1641. pretend the very same warrant of Scripture for Reforming the Church of England And the Independants for supplanting the Presbyterians anno 1647. The Presbyterians said Hugh Peters are no other then Gibeonites who may help to hew Stones and square Timber for a more Glorious Reformation Now as for Roman Catholiques do they ever say Mass to any other Object but the Living God Father Son and Holy Ghost Read the Catechism of the Council of Trent and see whether they attribute any thing to Angels or Saints but as the Ministers and Favourites of the Living God receiving from him whatever understanding they may have of our Affairs upon earth The Angels must know our Affairs because They are ministring Spirits sent forth for the good of those who shall be Heirs of Salvation And because they rejoyce at the Conversion of Sinners And have glorified Saints no Communication or Intelligence with the Angels As for the Images of Christ's humane Nature see the 25th Session of the Council of Trent and enquire whether Roman Catholiques pay any more respects to Them than Protestants do to the Elements of Bread and Wine which say they are but a Figure or Image of Christs Body and Blood. Omnis Superstitio in imaginum usu sacro tollatur saith that Council Let all Superstition be taken away in the use of Images and then gives it in charge to all Bishops to look to it The Church of England Protestants are every jot as offensive to us say the Presbyterians kneeling before the Elements of Bread and Wine as the Pupists kneeling before the Images of Christ I humbly recommend to Protestants the perusal of a late Book Entituled Pax Vobis And of another styled Considerations upon the Council of Trent by R. H. I say no more only give thanks to Almighty God with all my heart that I am escap'd out of the unstable waters of Schism into the Ark of Christ's Church And I beseech him to inspire me with that Spirit of Devotion which I observ'd in the Mass and other Books of Catholicks As for the ill practises of some and the ill Opinions of other Roman Catholicks which Protestants are wont to charge upon the whole Church I pass it over as no Argument at all All Protestants are no more Saints than all Papists In the Council of Trent an unprejudic'd Reader shall find nothing but what is Judicious and Pious And let him view Popery not as Protestants but as Papists represent it who should best know their own Religion In the Church of Rome he shall find variety of Religious Orders but no Schism nor discord about their Sacraments or Liturgy In veste Ecclesiae varietas est scissura non est No confusion of Sects nor disobedience to Superiors but all things perform'd in excellent order and God Almighty served as he is the Creator and Emperor of the World with Reverence and distance O quam dilecta sunt Tabernacula tua Domine virtutum concupiscit deficit Anima mea in Atria Domini Beati qui habitant in domo tuâ in Saecula Saeculorum laudabunt te Amen Psal 84. P S IF any Protestant Reader instead of a material Answer to this Discourse shall think fit to revile the Author 't is but what I expect and what I intend to take no notice of But I intreat him to read the following Quaeries without his Spectacles of Prejudice and Interest Dubia quaedam super Reformatione Anglicanâ ECclesia Anglicana vel est tota Ecclesia Catholica vel membrum illius si membrum duntaxat ostende mihi sub sole Ecclesiam vel coetum cujus Sacramenta amplectitur nisi sit à reliquo corpore absc●ssum Num recipit Sacramenta Lutheranorum vel Calvinistarum Vnde Missas est Cranmerus primus ille Reformator Ecclesiae Anglicana quis misit illum ad praedicandum Evangelium
unto them But another promise that he will do it without the Ministry of his Priests we read not of in the New Testament I pray the Reader to consider whether private Sinners in the Church of England do not offend God at a much cheaper rate then in the Church of Rome since in the Church of Rome they are bound to some Penance But in the Church of England they may Confess to their Ministers and do Penance if they will or if they will not they may let it alone If they cannot satisfie their own Consciences saith the Common-prayer let them come to me or some other Discreet and Learned Minister and open their Grief c. That Christians may receive the Communion of Christ's Body and Blood without a previous Confession and Absolution by a Priest was never heard of in the Catholique Church until the days of Henry the VIII The third difficulty was the Answer given by Protestants to that Question in the late Kings Papers Where is that one Holy Catholique and Apostolique Church which we do profess to believe in the two Creeds Was there any such Society as one Holy Catholick Church extant upon the face of the Earth when Cranmer began his Reformation And what Provinces of the Earth did this Church inhabit This is a plain Question and desires no Answer but of the ubi or place where to find it This Society if it be not an Idea Platonica must appear somewhere And when That is known the next doubt is Did Cranmer believe himself a Member of it and if so I would fain know who gave him Authority to Reform this one Holy Catholique and Apostolique Church To set up Altar against Altar c. If there were no such Church extant upon the face of the Earth as there must be none in case she were lapsed into Idolatry what became of our Saviours Prediction that the Gates of Hell shall never prevail against his Church I am told that Dr. S eet has answer'd these Questions by saying that the Church of Rome are Idolaiers and yet a true Church at the same time Which Answer I confess I do not understand For what agreement hath the Temple of God with Idols saith St. Paul and what concord hath Christ with Belial For ye are the Temple of the living God what communion hath light with darkness 2 Cor. 6.16 What Idolaters and yet a true Church 't is as much as to say they are in the way to Heaven and Hell at the same time But such Answers must the given when there are no better I confess I never read this Answer in him I only have it by Hear-say Surely to teach and practise Idolatry destroys the very Being of a Christian Church And it the Church of Rome be no Christian Church there is an end of the Episcopal Succession of the Church of England and consequently of the Church it self To conclude that which oblig'd me most of all to the Church of Rome was the perusal of her Books of Devotion such as Saint Francis Sales Bishop of Geneva his Introduction to a Devout Life Neirembergius of the difference betwixt Temporal and Eternal Lewis Gratensis of the Love of God. Kempis of the following of Christ c. Especially the Mass it self which I read without prejudice and compar'd the Spirit of Piety which I found there with the Spirit of Reformation Instead of Idolatry I found the most Elevated and Judicious Prayers to the Holy Trinity concluding in the Name or our Saviour Jesus Christ besides the daily Sacrifice offered up to Almighty God according to his own appointment Do this in remembrance of me All this I observ'd and then said within my self God forgive the wickedness of those people who quarrel at this and persecute it with so blind and furious an aversion So did the Jews Crucify our Saviour What fault can any ingenious Protestant find with This or any other Prayer of the Mass Suscipe sancte Pater omnipotentes aeterne Deus hanc immaculatam hostiam quam ego indignus famulus tuus offero tibi Deo meo vivo vero c. Accept O Holy Father Almighty and Eternal God this unspotted Sacrifice which I thy unworthy Servant offer unto thee my living and true God for my innumerable sins offences and negligences and for all here present as also for all Faithful Christians both living and dead that it may avail both Me and Them unto everlasting life Amen If this be the Mass who but a perverse ill-natur'd Phanatick can except against it As for the Confiteor said at the beginning of Mass the Reader shall find Protestants objecting nothing against it but what Presbyterians do against that Canticle in the Common-Prayer-Book called Benedicte omnia opera O Ananias Azarias and Misael Praise ye the Lord is a● rank Popery with the Presbyterians as any thing in the Mass or Litanies of our Lady For what 's that say they but to invocate dead men who don't hear us Thus they will interpret it in their own Sense and not in the Sense of the Church of England In a word I found the Church of England beholding to the Mass for the best Flowers in her Communion Service And since some Protestants will believe nothing but their Senses let them read it as I have done and believe their own eyes The objection of its being said in the Latin Tongue allows every man to hear it that understands Latin. And as for unlearned Catholicks if the Truth were known they understand as much or more of it than Illiterate Protestants do of the Common-Prayer What does the Protestant Multitude understand of the Predictions of Isaiah Jeremiah Ezekiel Daniel Zechariah read in their Churches by appointment of the Common-Prayer How many Expositions of the Mass are extant in Print by the commandment of the Church So that no man can be ignorant of it that desires to be inform'd How much more Universal and Vulgar is the Latin than the English Tongue Had not the Jewish Church being then the only true Church in the World almost all her Scriptures and publick Service for fourteen Generations that is to say from the Captivity of Babylon unto Christ in the old Hebrew A Language not then understood by the common People Did our Saviour or his Apostles ever reprehend the Jews for this or for not Translating their Scriptures into the vulgar Language If the Service of God must be said in the Maternal Language of every Nation where shall an English-man in France or Spain that understands not the Language go to serve God upon the Lord's Day This would destroy all community of Sacraments and Liturgy between the Members of the Catholick Church which being one Body or Society of men cannot be like the builders of Babel who would not understand one anothers Language Now I beseech you Brethren saith St. Paul by the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ that ye all speak the same thing and that there be no